« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

A “There Ought To Be A Law” Post

Paging Congressional Republicans: you want to run with a populist issue that could also get bipartisan support? I’ve got a law for you to push:

Prohibit airlines from charging for the first checked bag.

Here’s the deal: some of you will have a gut reaction that this is bad form — free marketers should not want to prohibit businesses from making money as they see fit.

Well, you’re wrong.

Airlines operate in an oligopoly with the federal government. Through gates fees and controls, they shut out competition. They rely on federal subsidies for mail carrying, etc. They have done everything possible to shut out the free market in air travel.

In addition, the feds have made it impossible to carry a full tube of toothpaste or a full bottle of shampoo on to an airplane. If you are going to be gone more than a few days, you’ve got to check a bag to haul your toiletries with you — especially if you are a woman. The feds are forcing bags to be checked.

Then, there is the other issue: because the airlines are charging for bags that are checked, more people are carrying overstuffed roller boards on to the plane. The bags don’t fit or take up so much room that less people have room for their bags. This then causes delays as the flight attendants have to then check bags, which are not then charged the fee they’d have been charged if checked in up front. People, therefore, have an incentive to haul their garbage onto the plane and then let the flight attendant check their bags. This makes the plane late.

The checked bag policy drives up the costs of families traveling and women. As the airlines have worked hard to not operate in a free market and have used Congressional controls to benefit themselves against possible competition, Congress has every right to stop us from getting screwed by the airlines for daring to check a bag because we’re going to be gone for a week and want our full tube of toothpaste to go with us.

There ought to be a law.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

    Southwest Airlines is now the only domestic carrier I will fly. (Barring having to go somewhere they don’t)

  • Vladimir

    When fuel prices dropped, the bag fees stuck.

    You make a good case.

  • SteveLA

    Sounds like someone just did a bit of air travel….Oh My! Did you feel safer taking off your shoes for the underwear sniffers from TSA, I personally feel tingly safer each time I do that.

    I await the day when they put coin operated doors on the heads of each airline and restore free Ice Tea and other non adult beverages. It’s not a head, it’s a profit center.

    Ahh the joy of modern travel, perhaps you should run for office Erick, I hear Air Pelosi does not have an extra bag fee.

  • red4ever

    Now I know how to get around the fee. It would be nice if the free market handled this, but they are almost all doing this. So, with the gate restrictions, you can’t just take your business to the few airlines that aren’t.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    a) The regulation should define the size of acceptable bagage that can be brought on to the plane.

    b) Terrorists are the ones that made toothpaste, shoes, etc potential killers

    c) I favor profiling

    d) I have always had a problem with the effect of low airline fees that has made it seem natural to be able to get from a to b the next day so cheap. It has caused so many people to travel to do things that could be done on the phone, etc. It is a symptom of the excesses of the past 25 years that has been bad for the culture

    more later

  • mom2oneson
  • SteveLA

    Game

    In Australia at every gate is a metal gate template. Gate agents make anyone they think is packing too large a bad on carry on pass the bag through the template. No fit, it’s checked, and Australian gate agents are tough.

    Don’t even get me started on “Extra Large” Customers. I flew out of Reagan last year next to one of those and about the only thing that kept me from going off was the thought that there were lots of TSA and Homeland security types with guns right outside the airplane.

    You want to talk about new laws when it comes to airlines:

    Passenger Bill of Rights
    Extra Large passengers need to pay for two seats
    Limits on carry on luggage

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    Ryanair may charge ?1 for lavatory use

    Ryanair is considering charging passengers ?1 ($1.40) to use the lavatory on its flights, according to chief executive Michael O?Leary. In an interview on BBC television this morning, Mr O?Leary said that the low-cost airline was looking at the possibility of installing a coin slot on the lavatory door so that ?people might actually have to spend a pound to spend a penny.*?
    [snip]
    Rochelle Turner, head of research at Which? Holiday, condemned the proposal. “It seems Ryanair is prepared to plumb any depth to make a fast buck…,? she said. ?Charging people to go to the toilet might result in fewer people buying overpriced drinks on board, though – that would serve Ryanair right.?
    [snip]
    The Dublin-based airline has gained a reputation for its high booking fees and ancillary charges….A spokesman for rival low-fare carrier easyJet said: “We have no plans to charge passengers ?1 to use our toilets. “Inflation appears to have gone crazy if it now costs ?1 to spend a penny.*”

    *To urinate in a shop’s sanitation facilities, which origianlly cost a penny.

  • red4ever

    would pay less since they take up less than a seat? Hey, you can pack two of them to a seat and the airlines could sell even more seats.

  • SteveLA

    One person one seat rule.

    If you want to hang your bulk over into my seat or have the armrest up “because it will be more comfortable”, or need seat belt extenders buy two darn seats. Only airline I know that actually enforces the rules on this stuff is South Worst.

  • youthgrunt

    for checked bags the “fuel” situation or is it rather the explosion of internet price comparisons? It seems to me that the airlines are competing to have the lowest base fare and so they started doing weird things.

    The argument doesn’t sell for me, Erick. Just because there is a bit of government influence doesn’t justify throwing out the rest of the free market for a convenience. The market will eventually settle this out. I know of many people who will only fly Southwest because of this issue. I find them to be a strange airline to fly, but I like their innovation.

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    To airlines. Seriously. Southwest is a perfect example, given how for the longest time it was shut out of flying to certain airports because of the objections of other airlines.

    If you add up all the money the airlines get from Washington and all the money they pay lobbyists to go to Washington to get the money, they have more than they generate on this anti-family fee.

    Charge for drinks on the airplanes, not the first bag.

  • ZootSuit

    … as if I’m not hated already.

    I probably travel more than 99% of the people here — “Platinum preferred status” on one majoe airline and that’s not even the airline I like traveling most — but I use a simple solution for extra bags: fly First/Business Class. Granted,it costs more, although as a “preferred” flyer I often pay the same as Coach and get upgraded to First/Business but that only means I’ve already paid for so many flights that I have earned my “preferred” status.

    I say the above a bit “tongue-in-check” but I am quite serious. Checked bags are a (very legitimate) way for airlines to raise revenue. An alternative would be to raise the seat prices for everyone regardless of the number of bags they check; especially raising seat prices for Coach class travellers since First/Business class travellers more often than not subsidies the costs for Coach class travellers any way.

    And if you’re going to argue that airlines can make “enough” profit without raising prices or charging extra for checked baggage, have we now gotten to the point where even here on RedState we will be haranguing about private enterprises making too much profit?

    And as for the very excessive restrictions on what you can carry onboard a commerce flight these days, they have been instituted for safety: not just for the flying passengers but also for others. While I do think it is the height of stupidity that the confiscated items are normally all placed in a bin together, let’s be honest: If President Obama and/or the Democrats in Congress issued and executive order or passed a law that suddenly disallowed those restrictions, within 48-hours there would be three front-page essays and ten member diaries all complaining about how President Obama and the Democrats are undermining are safety.

    Bottom line, I probably get as frustrated as the next person when flying but the idea that the Federal government should pass a law prohibiting airlines from charging extra for checked baggage smacks of the big-government nanny state that I thought all of us conservatives abhored.

  • youthgrunt

    to increase the government control or lessen it?

    I would think that the push should be to make the market more free rather than less.

  • SteveLA

    Erick,

    The actual mechanism to stop competition at airports is the landing and takeoff slots. Most airline have more slots than they actually use, but keep them in the bank. The FAA also plays in this shell game from a man power, environmental and other factors.

    The FAA limits takeoffs and landings based on many factors, and does little to take landing rights away from an airline once issued. The landing rights actually have some value and to take them away from any airline to allow competition is a huge deal tied up in politics and economics. When you see one small airline gobbled up by a bigger one, it’s often for landing rights.

    An argument could be made by Republicans to implement a use it or loose it system of slot rights, but somehow I think if slots were pulled back by the FAA they would not be re-issued for a range of reasons.

  • ZootSuit

    The strategy was specifically NOT to go to major airports but to go to the underutilized “mid-market”or “minor” airports where they could offer their services without a “hub-and-spoke”network in direct competition to the legacy airlines. It is a perfect example of the free market actually working.

    Now if your argument is that Washington should stop taking money from lobbyist, or at least airline lobbyists, well somehow that is reminding me of … John McCain.

  • ZootSuit

    Indeed, a support a “secondary market” where airlines can barter or trade and sell their slots to one another. I would even include foreign airlines in this “secondary market” system.

  • tankertodd

    I favor regulation as long as in total, it reduces. Erick wants his bag rule, fine, let’s roll something back or make something simpler.

    The one bag free rule is just common sense – people travel and they bring things with them. To some degree that is part-and-parcel with travel. It’s like buying a muffin and charging extra for the muffin top.

    My other regulations:
    1. For any company that goes bankrupt, the first claimant on assets are customers with outstanding receivables. That means any gift card for any merchant gets redeemed before any landlord or bondholder gets paid. This to me is clear common sense. Consumers need to be protected and know they won’t get burned. In 2009 this will matter greatly, since I’ve already read two news stories listing who could be going under this year.

    2. All EULAs, Terms and Conditions, and Contracts will include a one-page summary that can be understood by a 6th grader. This must be demonstrable through actual testing of 6th graders. This will also stimulate the economy of 12-year-olds and the consumption of whatever it is kids these days buy (in my day, Garbage Pail Kids and Gummy Bears).

  • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

    Here in Phoenix you have US Air and Southwest. They market essentially the same routs and their websites show identical fares. However, the lie is in the small print. The US Air flight will cost you about 10-20% more in fees that Southwest does not charge.

    Right or wrong, the nickle and dime fees are asinine and there should be something akin to truth in advertising rules that deny the carriers from what is outright misleading price advertising.

  • liberalrepublican

    The last thing we need is telling companies how to run their businesses.

    Let people choose a different airline or complain or not travel as much. Let an airline decide to use it as a competitive advantage.

    The free market will work.

    And if that doesn’t fix it too bad. Are we going to write a law every time an industry does something consumer unfriendly?

    And saying that air travel is already over regulated is NOT a reason to pile on more regulation.

  • http://jeffemanuel.net Jeff Emanuel

    government-backed oligopolies, friend.

  • bk

     

  • pilgrim

    .

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    Though I guess you could say that about prepaid funeral plans, too. Or life insurance…

  • liberalrepublican

    Do ALL AIRLINES HAVE TO CHARGE for carry on?

    Can any do anything different?

    Fact is they can. And they can market themselves as different.

    The answer to bad regulation is not more regulation.

    Companies in EVERY market make dumb rules. ALL MARKETS.

    You can’t legislate stupid.

  • liberalrepublican

    Seriously, if you are going to make that law, I could give you 25 other laws for the airline industry.

    How about a law mandating salted and unsalted peanuts. And why not almonds? Why not a law against the discrimination of almonds. Screw cashews, I don’t like ‘em.

    How about a law that two people with the exact same luggage can’t be on the same flight?

    How about a law against matthew mcconaughey?

    Why not a law stating that rental car companies can’t charge you more than 10% above the going rate for gas?

    How about a law banning fat people from isle seats?

    I’m just getting started…

  • momac

    It’s the same logic that would say, why should someone be able to smoke, or to eat fatty foods, health care is already socialized and we foot the bill for it. The fact that the airline/government private/public combination is a mess is the root problem to go after, not adding another regulation on top of what already doesn’t work. Are you really claiming we’re just one regulation away from better air travel? If so, good luck to you and your flat earth.

    It’s not smart, it’s not a good case, and it’s not consistent with conservative principles. It’s a knee-jerk reaction to an annoyance, a cost that is known ahead of time to any semi-responsible consumer.

    And it does nothing for me, a light traveler with a bag well within guidelines who doesn’t want to share the checked-bag cost with all those folks, whether they are ‘families traveling and women’, whatever difference that is supposed to make. Was that just an emotional plea for social justice, or is that a real reason?

    The bag checkers are a forced union that does a poor job by all accounts and is too costly. I love that the cost is put in front of people’s face.

    Anyway, the response to rent-seeking by any corporation is not more regulation. It is limiting the power of government to grant anti-competitive wishes of businesses that they don’t have the power to grant.

    The other option is to just nominate a Bill O’Reilly/Lou Dobbs ticket, they’ll make sure and fix everything that is ‘just wrong’.

  • momac

    Saying ‘the nickle and dime fees are asinine’ is not an argument. I would be interested to see if you’ve actually purchased a ticket and were not informed of this at the time of purchase.

    I’ve flown Allegiant Air and I doubt even RyanAir could have more little charges. Big deal. I could’ve bailed out anytime before making the purchase. I personally like paying for just what I use, thank you very much.

    For those that want a one-size-fits-all regulated airline system with all-inclusive 100% parity services, I will just say no thanks. Take responsibility for your own purchases, and leave me to mine. I am able to read, and the last people I want doing any more ‘fixing’ of the airlines are our legislators.

    Somehow the author and some commentors are of the opinion that the airlines and legislature have colluded to concoct an unfair system without our consent– but now that very same legislature (or slightly worse currently) is going to enact one, restricted, perfectly crafted piece of legislature that both fixes someone’s annoyance and does no harm to the people that are satisfied now? I think that’s utter delusion.

  • momac

    How about working on dismantling the oligopoly, or competing with it, or demonstrating why it’s broken, instead of ‘fixing’ it in the same way a Barney Frank or Charles Schumer would? Where in Holy Hades am I?

    If this is what passes for conservative, or even slightly right-of-center thoughtfulness, we’re in worse trouble than I thought.

  • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

    And before you get all high and mighty, I travel extensively and am not in anyway ignorant as to how “the system” works.

    It’s true that the vast majority of travelers are not “experienced” to current aviation pricing models. Heck, the first 2 bags have always been included. And while I am sure the websites and res agents do tell the customer about the additional charges, it remains, in my opinion a fraudulent practice. I equate it with car dealers who sell that one car no one can buy because it’s always the 1st sold and every other car is 4K more.

  • ZootSuit

    You yourself state …

    And while I am sure the websites and res agents do tell the customer about the additional charges, it remains, in my opinion a fraudulent practice.

    But seriously, how is it a fradulent practice if the consumer is informed and willingly consents to it?

    The charges may be something you and other consumers may not like to pay but it definitely is not fraud. As momac says above, if you don’t like Option A, “that ‘nickles and dimes’ you with additional fees (say US Airways),” then go with Option B, who doesn’t (say Southwest Airlines). The choice, although it may not be perfect, is yours, the consumers’, and, thankfully, not the government’s.

    Wow! Just think about it.Now we have some posters on RedState arguing that the government should legislate a “one size fits all’ “benefit” for a consumers of a private inducstry.

  • ZootSuit

    It happens occasionally but after a while we normally get back to reality.

    But seriously, threads like these illustrate why conservatism is losing in America. Too many so-called conservatives will argue for government intervention to address their personal pet peeves, not realizing that what they are doing is the exact same thing that liberals have done over the years to get is in the predicament we are in now.”Just this once”ultimately but inevitably eventually becomes “for everything, all the time.”

  • ZootSuit

    There are only a finite number of landing stripes. My argument is that a “secondary ‘free’ market” where these landing stripes are traded will result in the most economically efficient allocation. Because of the nature of airlines themselves, exteralities and asymmetric information is minimized, thus minimizing transaction costs and increasing the likely economic efficiency of the outcome.

    Note: I started a long response on Coase Theorem and how my idea for a secondary market for landing strips differs from a “cap and trade” policy for pollutants — basically, landing strips are finite in nature a core component of commercial travel while pollution is a side product and externality that is neither finite in nature nor does it production or use by one resource naturally affect its production or use by another resource — but I did not want to threadjack and cannot devote the time this week that would be necessary to support the conversation.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    See also: Flying Cars, why we don’t have.

    These kinds of situations actually explain why libertarianism can’t make any headway on the national level, but that’s a whole different post.

    Moe Lane

    PS: Where you are is living in a country of 300 million-plus people who tend to blanch at the notion of full deregulation of commercial air travel, once they’ve had a chance to think about the implications.

  • randy streu

    from the inconvenience of reading the fine print. Seriously; what the hell is THAT about?

  • rbdwiggins
  • randy streu

    There needn’t be gov’t backed oligopolies to make the skies safe. The FAA can, and should, regulate particular things about the industry without deciding WHO gets to participate.

    To suggest that the way it’s being done is the only way that makes sense is inside-the-box thinking that simply doesn’t mesh with the spirit of Conservatism, or even of entrepreneurism, IMO.

    As ZootSuit says above, however, even under the current system, it isn’t as though companies are FORCED to charge for luggage. There is still plenty of room for competative advantage among the players.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Seriously, though: if you want commercial air flight, you have to accept significant levels of government control over it. It’s as close to physics as you can get in political science: citizens react badly to the thought of airplanes falling out of the sky and onto their garages, and will accept a great deal of government activism to prevent that from happening, And there will be less than zero political cost for conservatives advocating using that activism to make life slightly easier for the portion of the populace that uses airplanes.

    Just the way it is, man.

  • randy streu

    I agree that significant government regulation IS necessary when it comes to commercial flight. What I’m saying is that the regulation should begin and end with flight safety.

    And honestly, it may well be time for more regulation — but again, it’s really high time the FAA focus on safety and stop worrying about some “passenger bill of rights.” I mean, you want to talk about citizens worrying about planes falling out of the sky? How many have done exactly that, just in the last two months? Let’s focus on what’s actually important, here.

  • smagar

    To minimize the hassles of modern-day air travel:

    1) Get status with at least one airline. A great way to do this—a credit card that the airline sponsors, which gives you credit toward Preferred status on that airline. Delta, for example, gives out Medallion Miles to people who use its Delta Sky Miles AMEX card. That helps you achieve Preferred status without flying. Once you have status, you get upgraded more often.

    2) Get a good quality hanging garment bag. First class passengers get to hang them up in a closet while they fly….hence, your clothes don’t get wrinkled. In many cases, if you’re a Preferred flyer not sitting in First class, you can talk the flight attendant into hanging up your bag anyway. If they insist on you foldling up your hanging bag and putting it in the overhead bin…

    3) Buy your key work clothes from a national retailer, who offers on-the-spot pressing service. I buy from Mens Wearhouse for that reason. I’ve gone to Mens Wearhouses in Kansas City, Colorado Springs, Savannah and Fairfax County, to get them to press out the wrinkles caused by the air trip I just completed.

    4) Toiletries? Target has bins of travel-size shampoo, shaving cream, etc… for $1. More than enough for a one-week business trip.

    Of course, I recognize that Erick’s point here was—we SHOULD be able to pass a Federal law banning fees for the first checked bag, BECAUSE we’ve already established the precedent that the Feds can get widely involved in commercial air travel to begin with.

    But I felt like adding my 0.02…

  • pilgrim

    The regulations that we need the Federal government to apply to airlines and airports should begin and end with the principles of flight safety and national security. Any new laws about prohibiting them from making profits because these achievers are just a class of oligopolists are just wrong-headed on many different levels. I also think some of the posts about how new laws requiring fat people to be charged more to fly than skinny people to fly should be put in place by the federal government are bigoted.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    Your luggage under the plane IS CARGO…. SIMPLE….. The issue here is that the Airlines have given a Cargo Fee EXEMPTION for so long it has been (LIKE WHINEY LIBERALS ON EVERYTHING) “A RIGHT!?!?” Sorry, I don’t think so! I certainly hope we get back to the day (now that Fuel costs are going to get back down – yes, those of us who really know the nature of the Fuel Contracts… blah, blah… I’m not going to bother to go into it all again – peeps know and get-it or don’t) when a Passenger’s Luggage Cargo Fee is WAIVED (your Passenger Fees including 1 bag or whatever)…. It is solely the Airlines fault for that notion having been lost! Granted, however, the fact that the new rules regarding “liquids” and the like have greatly interfered in/with this whole past practices and concepts!

    As much as it annoys me (admittedly, not as much as I don’t travel often like I used to) regarding what people believe to be HIDDEN FEE – This is strictly an issue of individual Airlines’ policies… Should someone that is used to traveling with one small carry-on SUBSIDIZE everyone elses luggage?

  • ZootSuit

    And we are in agreement here.

    Although, as someone who is lean, trim and still fairly athletic even as I approach (okay, am “in” but don’t tell my wife I admitted it) middle age, I may support extra fatter people paying more. I don’t think that’s bigoted. :-)

    Sorry, I just couldn’t resist.

  • ZootSuit

    You’re telling people my trade secrets!

    There goes my competitive advantage. I think this now needs to be regulated!

  • Achance

    They need a metal frame and if your butt won’t fit through it, you buy two seats. Likewise, the carry-on bag size limit should be enforced. People show up with their every Earthly possession, block the aisles, can’t get it in the overhead or completely fill the over head making it impossible for others to stow their stuff, and the planes are constantly late because people can’t get on and get seated.

    Back when I travelled constantly, I was pretty immune to the hassles because I had all the frequent flyer privileges; good seats, early boarding, lots of 1st class upgrades, but I’m a mere mortal now and flying simply sucks! If I’m going anywhere, I have a simple choice if I want a non-stop; Alaska Airlines’ morning flight or their evening flight. Alaska has a monopoly everywhere in Alaska except Anchorage and Fairbanks and even there they have little competition in winter. They treat you pretty well, but you pay one Helluva price for it; I could fly around the World from most any place else for the price of a ticket from Juneau to Seattle or Anchorage.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine
  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    that all free market principals be abandoned so that the government makes all business decisions. Moreover, you seem to demonize lobbying (free speech) while at the same time lobbying yourself for a new regulation to make your increasingly frequent air travel resemble a taxi cab ride, even though taxi cabs can’t fly into the 124th floor or tall buildings.

    Some industries must be regulated more than others and airlines must be for safety.

    My solution to the carry on issue is to require a standardized container one can bring on, period and all other bags not come on the cabin.

    Of course, this will not solve the real “problem” of wanting a pre-911 world when air travel had become so convenient and cheap that one could fly from NYC to Hersey, PA to have a chocolate bar and be back home for supper…

  • Mike gamecock DeVine
  • Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    Erick, you seem to be suggesting that once regulation of an industry reaches a certain level that all free market principals be abandoned so that the government makes all business decisions.

    That’s not what I’m saying. What I am saying is that the airline market is not a free market, has never been a free market, and will never be a free market.

    What I am also saying is that the government + airlines have cooperated to such an extent to make air travel anti-family, that government can step in in this particular industry to stop this particular fee that is very anti-family.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    The airline market is less free than many other markets, esp since 911, but even before 911 many of the circumstances like gate fees, etc that you bemoan, existed and for many years, despite same, ailine travel became so “pro-family” that even low-middle income families came to see as a right, the ability to make frequent airline trips from NY to Cally to see grandma!

    It seems to me that the reasons for the failure of so many airlines and the end of the low fare like bus trips in 1/10th the time bubble was 911/higher fuel prices/etc.

    Your post reminds me of a column last year or earlier by Pilgrim during congressional hearings on baseball, as well as the arguments about AIG and banks, that once you let govt regulate things, then they get to have CEO show trials on minutia.

    You seem to have fallen down this slippery slope now wanting govt to fix an inconvenience so as to re-create a past circumstance that was probably unrealistic.

    Given that govt does not now require the regulation or lack of same that you desire, then, obviously, there remains a free market on the bag check issue.

    I think safety requirements should have long ago eliminated the indulgence of letting people bring on non-standardized containers into the cabin. The reason for this is to try and maintain the luxury of letting people spend less time after they land, i.e. trying to make air travel like taxi cab rides.

    Well, that is unrealistic.

    I forget the name of a book I read a decade ago that pointed out how technology was making life much more hectic rather than better. The idea that we could fly all over the place all the time, and then having that ability becoming expected, so that people work 24.7 and the notion that we just can’t live any other way.

    We did OK with snail mail. see WWII

    I don’t suggest that govt re-create the 50s! What I am suggesting is that they no require re-creating the late 90s either.

    Erick, one of the mistakes many conservatives make is blanket statements re free markets and non-free, when the reality is that most all activity is regulated. We should be for as little as possible in all markets.

    There is a circumstance on a plane that argues for my solution: limited space in the cabin/need for safety and the desire to inspect the baggage as quick as possible.

    I am not totally sure what you mean by not family friendly, but certainly you would agree that the above re safety after 911 trumps those aesthetic concerns?

    Good discussion bro, and I don’t deny that i bring some personal prejudices to the table on this, but isn’t there just a bit of an element of your personal desires due to frequency of air travel, that you are impatient with the market and wish to have your desire imposed?

    Reminds me of those that want to ban smoking in restaurants as if they have a right to eat there.

    smile

  • SecularRepublican

    I was surprised to see a post from Erick asking for MORE regulation of an industry instead of less. This is the type of lost liberty that we normally rail against Obama for (like regulating how private companies spend stimulus money). I think the airlines should be free to charge whatever they want for both travel and baggage-transport services. If one or more airlines waive the fees, they’ll do better business forcing others to compete. This post, quite frankly, comes off as very hypocritical in that conservatives almost always want LESS government interference. The post comes across that more government interference is ok when something annoys you.

  • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

    randy streu, ZootSuit and rbdwiggins et. al.

    If you are unfamiliar with how Part 121 aviation operates, I suggest perusing the current F.A.R.s to see exactly how regulated the operations remain. The government, regardless of the deregulation act in the 1980′s still dictates activities with the exception of fares.

    My problem with the airlines and their fees program is not that they should be dictated to by the federal government, but that what they are doing with baggage only, is a scam. If RyanAir wants to charge for the lavatory, or US Air for water enroute, go for it; I have absolutely no quarrel with that. But baggage charges are unacceptable. It is implied that you will be carrying a suitcase and that it should be included in the ticket cost. Additionally, now people are lugging all sorts of crap through the airport, and subsequently having the items gate checked just to avoid the fee.

    There are times and places where government regulation is acceptable, and in this case, I believe it is acceptable.

  • streetwise

    Today, 32 years later, you can pretty much get this fare if you shop around.

    There are very few industries in which products are on sale for the SAME nominal amount as was charged three decades ago.

    Far from being the oligopoly you describe, the airlines have gone through extraordinary changes since deregulation, and air travel has become a semi-commodity. And they have lost billions of dollars. Some oligopoly. As one airline CEO wryly remarked, savvy investors should have shot the Wright brothers down in 1903 and done the financial world a big favor.

    To survive, the airlines have unbundled their pricing. So they charge separately for various things that were bundled when margins were better under regulation.

    The market has spoken. Conservatives should not be arguing for MORE regulation.

  • rbdwiggins

    One of my more interesting type-ratings is in an AT-6 Navy Trainer of WWII vintage that’s hangared at my local airport.

    There are distinct advantages that stem from having an uncle who was one of the original pilots for Piedmont Aviation.

    That said, I favor including one checked-bag, not to exceed fifty-pounds, in the original fare.

    After that, let competition rule…

  • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

    I was with America West (HP) for about 9 years, mostly as a dispatcher. My ratings are CFI/CFII/MEI/MEII and the obligatory oddball Float Plane.

    The coolest thing I was ever rated on was an OV-10 Bronco when I did a “What the hell was I thinking” in flying Air Attack for the US Forest Service as a spotter for the slurry bombers.