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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Is the NRSC Maneuvering to Push Tom Ridge?

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  April 28th, 2009 at 10:43 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Will the NRSC staff push former Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge to get into the Pennsylvania primary against Pat Toomey?

It would not surprise me to learn that they are leaning that way, convinced that Pat Toomey cannot win, but someone a close friend of George W. Bush and a pro-abort candidate can win.

People seem to forget that Pat Toomey, while in Congress, regularly won a district that leaned Democrat.

Ridge is the only Republican who makes Specter appear conservative. He is pro-abortion, anti-school choice, and pro-tax. He was also not exactly stellar as Secretary of Homeland Security, though the present Secretary there makes him look sharp in contrast.

If the NRSC were to come out in favor of a pro-choice Bushie in Pennsylvania, it would be suicide for their fundraising efforts among conservatives.

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COMMENTS

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  • nyukid

    Check with me first before they even think.

    Just saying, might be time to get rid of everyone up for election and usher in a new era of people with principles and not paychecks.

    Jeff Barea

  • IJB

    I’m not interested in a party that views people as Toomey like “terrorists” as much as Obama’s people do.

  • dave_in_atl

    Good luck running a party of nobody but you if you do.

  • antisocial

    Grahmnesty looking to call Tom.

    Your sources are dead on.

    I think Pat is the candidate we should be rooting for.

  • SteveLA

    Erick

    Can Toomey beat Snarl’n Arlen? What does the polling say, or is it too early?

  • dld1717

    Folks, first impressions make a lasting image. Toomey cannot win and I repeat cannot win Statewide. I doubt he could even win in his old congressional district now and he has been out of office for over 6 years.

    Ridge is very popular and could beat Specter. I am all for us winning seats.

    I also hope Crist runs in FL.

    I wish Conservatives would put as much effort as they do in critiquing fellow GOP’s as they do as taking down Dems

  • nyukid

    The people of Lincoln & Concord about their chances of defeating the British Empire.

    We are not politicians.

    We are Americans.

    We are free men and free women.

    We will spend the winter freezing our toes.

    We will fight to restore the Republic.

    Polls be damned.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    Other sets of three-letter words the NRSC ought to pay heed to:

    Leave it alone.
    No more squishes.
    GFY.

  • dld1717

    We need to get seats back

    So Ridge votes with Dems 30% at least we get Republican back in seat?

    Isn’t it better to have something then nada???

  • JadedByPolitics

    will do everything I can to go third party I will give money, time and feet on the ground for another party! I am NOT the only one there are MILLIONS just like me and WE will stop fighting to bring the Republican Party back to the RIGHT and just leave it to DIE!

  • SteveLA

    nyukid

    Is that babble suppose to mean something, or are you just free associating or perhaps having flashbacks or something.

  • dld1717

    Toomey cannot win

    I think a Congressman Gerlach may be better nominee for us or Ridge but let Republican voters decided and let chips fall where they may

  • Freedomlover

    Run a Bush guy against Toomery. What the *?”& are they thinking?
    Haven’t we had Bush thrown in our faces enough by the Left? What in the world is Steele thinking? Time to get him out and get someone like Liz Chaney in charge of the RNC. We need new faces. We can’t beat liberals with liberal-like candidates. Haven’t we learned ANYTHING from McCain?

  • JadedByPolitics

    you are someone like a “moderate” ie NO CORE VALUES to stick to so lets just get another R in the Senate…WE ARE NOT HAVING IT ANYMORE…do you think those million people who went to TEA Parties are looking for THE SAME THING….NOOOOOO they want small government they want politicians who TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT WHO THEY ARE and they ARE LEGION….you go ahead and stick with the moderates and enjoy your slow death with them!

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I view Ridge as more a Red-Dog (The “Red-Dog” concept) than a RINO, if that is the implication some are making and/or concerned about.

    Flat out…. I agree with the sentiment that we do NOT need to “Moderate” down the role of the Republican nominee….. I much prefer the more Conservative candidate FIRST AND FOREMOST…. but will support whomever directly in the General! The CONSERVATIVE message is NOT the problem or wrong place to be…. We must end the McCainism BS….. though I can see the need to have some Red-Dogs in the Bluest of the Blue areas, PA is NOT an example (IMO) to have to dumb-it-down.

    I heard Steele, again today, saying he wants to be Neutral in a Primary!!! I do not have as much a problem with that in this case, whereas I did want him to grow a pair and join with us to take on disreSpecter in the R Primary had he stayed a Republican. I do want the RNC to stay out of the AZ primary where I will be directly supporting Simcox and anyone else that may seem even remotely possible to beat up on him let alone actually beat him. Though beating on McCain in the Primary will make him even more a RINO than he already is!

  • dld1717

    If PA GOP voters choose Toomey then we should all rally around him but if they choose a Ridge then we should rally behind him

    This is a democracy right?

  • SteveLA

    dld1717

    That’s a pretty definitive statement, what do you base your assertion on? Polling data, surveys, what?

    The important thing in my view is to beat Snarl’n Arlen, badly about the head and shoulders…..please.

  • JadedByPolitics

    WHICH IS WHY Specter JUMPED….so what are you saying exactly? what proof do you have that Toomey CANNOT win? is there a generic showing any D beating the R? YOU GOT ANYTHING except your obvious loyalty to “moderates” UNTIL you can PROVE he is unelectable stop spreading your crap throughout the thread….you have said it enough with NOTHING to back it UP!

  • dld1717

    Toomey has already been defined as a defacto Santorum in the views of a majority of PA ( I loved Santorum too). First impressions are very difficult to overcome. I think we all make them.

    PA is a blue tilting state we can’t win I believe with such a Conservative person anymore here. Besides, PA Dems let Casey be their nominee just to win and we should be doing same now and its not like Casey has been with us on any major issues anyways

  • conservativemusician

    Not sure where you’re going with this nyukid. You may not think much of the polls, but I know that both parties live and die by them in the current environment…and there are some reputable pollsters that can be trusted (like Rasmussen).

    Speaking of Rasmussen, the latest generic congressional weekly poll out today shows the GOP with a 3 point edge over the Dems, only the 2nd time this has happened in the last 5 years. I think this bodes very well for Toomey’s chances in PA as well as other areas of the country that will have tight elections.

  • conservativemusician

    Not sure where you’re going with this nyukid. You may not think much of the polls, but I know that both parties live and die by them in the current environment…and there are some reputable pollsters that can be trusted (like Rasmussen).

    Speaking of Rasmussen, the latest generic congressional weekly poll out today shows the GOP with a 3 point edge over the Dems, only the 2nd time this has happened in the last 5 years. I think this bodes very well for Toomey’s chances in PA as well as other areas of the country that will have tight elections.

  • red4ever

    Someone stop sending stupid pills to the national committees.

    Toomey ALMOST beat Specter last time in the primaries. Plus, did we NOT learn from electing Specter? No, electing a RINO is not better than giving the seat to a Democrat because they vote Democrat anyway. Better to go down on our principles than win without them. Because you don’t really win then.

  • casel21

    saying Specter’s defection is disastrous. I don’t get it. Are they saying that we here in PA should shut up and vote for Specter? Nobody has done anything yet. Specter made his cowardly decision based on polls. A bunch of people just voiced their opinion to pollsters. What were they supposed to do: lie about their opinion so Specter would run as a R? When a pollster ask a question, are we supposed to consider the impact on the RNC and fashion our answers to benefit the broad strategy, if any, of the RNC? Are we supposed to be like Washington politicians and lie about our opinions and beliefs?

    What Democrat is going to vote for Specter? Traitors are like rat finks — nobody likes or trusts them even if they benefit your side. Nobody trust them. Just like the old joke: “we’ve established what you are, we’re just haggling over the price.”

  • nyukid

    Polls reflect the current mood as influenced by the wording of the poll.

    What is important is not what the current mood is (for example a 2010 election in early 2009.

    What is important is the overcoming of pre-existing attitudes through hard work and electioneering.

    Either that or believe a rock could never become the most bizarrely popular pet.

    Babble gone now?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It’s one thing to say one R has a better chance to win, but don’t badmouth the guy who could be our nominee, please.

  • dld1717

    I bet a vast majority now just to love sticking it to us

    We need to win this seat back and so many others

    Still no top challengers to so many Dems. I wish people like Hucakbee, Thomy Thompson, Bill Owens, Lingle, Hoeven, and Castle could make the races.

    2 years of Dems having 60 Seats is going to be pure hell for us. Just imagine all judges they can get YUCK

  • smitch61

    Run who they want to. No money from me. Maybe it will take 8-10 years before they get it……

  • Doc Holliday

    but I also want to win. There is no close in politics, would Ridge really be as bad as Specter? Let the Repubs in PA decide, I think they want Toomey regardless of what the NRSC and Lyndsay say.

  • nyukid

    The NRSC no longer controls the party or the message. They couldn’t even keep Specter in the party.

    We Americans.

    We patriots.

    NRSC knows we control the Republican Party now.

  • Doc Holliday

    of course it is Lexington.

  • nyukid

    Pardon the unfortunate and necessary slight against Lexingtoners.

  • nyukid

    We can have both the minute enough people decide to have both.

    The lesser of two evils?

    Why is that even a decision?

  • nyukid

    Americans survived.

    We are a hearty peoples.

  • robmikpet

    Mark Levin has said over and over that it has taken 70 years to get to this point it might take 70 years to get the country back.

    Yes it starts in 2010, but we don’t need total victory let’s get another 20 in the house two or three in the Senate. If they are conservatives then we will get further than if we win more seats but they are RINO’s

  • AKSteveB

    you donate/work for Toomey in a primary, then vote for even for the dead Repub over a live Dem in the election. We just don’t have the luxury :(

  • paulincolo

    Didn’t we just have 500 or so comments bidding an unfarewell bye bye hex to Specter and you want Specter-lite? No, you nominate conservatives and you take your chances. What is the point of voting for a guy that will abandon you and your principles? Is it ok to gain a senate seat and lose your soul, just like Specter?

    Secondly, Ridge is an easy mark for the Dems. He was a bushie, they don’t even need new commercials.

    We need someone that espouses conservative principles even if the only benefit is to convert people for the following election.

  • mustango

    …could someone come up with the logic, “he was beating Specter so badly he chased him clean out of the party, so let’s torpedo his nomination on the basis that he can’t beat Specter.”

  • RedInABleuState

    I would have been more impressed if they’d found a challenger for Specter while he was still a “Republican.”

  • antisocial

    First Post:
    Folks, first impressions make a lasting image. Toomey cannot win and I repeat cannot win Statewide. I doubt he could even win in his old congressional district now and he has been out of office for over 6 years.
    Ridge is very popular and could beat Specter. I am all for us winning seats.
    I also hope Crist runs in FL.

    Another One:
    Toomey cannot win
    I think a Congressman Gerlach may be better nominee for us or Ridge but let Republican voters decided and let chips fall where they may

    Another One:
    If PA GOP voters choose Toomey then we should all rally around him but if they choose a Ridge then we should rally behind him
    This is a democracy right?

    Another One:
    Toomey has already been defined as a defacto Santorum in the views of a majority of PA ( I loved Santorum too). First impressions are very difficult to overcome. I think we all make them.
    PA is a blue tilting state we can?t win I believe with such a Conservative person anymore here. Besides, PA Dems let Casey be their nominee just to win and we should be doing same now and its not like Casey has been with us on any major issues anyways

    Another One:
    I bet a vast majority now just to love sticking it to us
    We need to win this seat back and so many others
    Still no top challengers to so many Dems. I wish people like Hucakbee, Thomy Thompson, Bill Owens, Lingle, Hoeven, and Castle could make the races.
    2 years of Dems having 60 Seats is going to be pure hell for us. Just imagine all judges they can get YUCK

    You start off with “Toomey can not win” and use repeat just like Nancy other day… Don’t take offense to comparison with Nancy, but that’s what it sounded like. :-) Then you go ahead to praise Tom Ridge without telling us why. In the same breath you wish Crist runs. I don’t think both of them are any good.

    Then you advise us to “let PA voters decide”.

    Then you start telling us PA is a blue state and we must be just like democrats to win it. Basically you want us to throw a candidate under the bus just for being conservative. Isn’t that the root cause of our state?

    Curruptocrats already have effectively 60 votes. It can not get any worse. Lose or win does not matter.

    So what’s the common theme? That we should throw away principles and somehow get a candidate that wins. Didn’t you just learn that? Didn’t you learn that in Presidential election? How many beatings are you willing to take to realize that approach doesn’t buy you anything. NOTHING.

    Cmon…..

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I think they need to get out of primaries already.

  • antisocial

    I have been following this site since this started. I must have read almost 90% of the comments. The overwhelming reaction that I see is of “Good Riddance”.

  • JustLeaveMeAlone

    Or so it was argued.

    How’d that work out for you?

  • dld1717

    I was more happy yesterday with 59 Dem Senators then today with 60 coming

    How happy are you over 60 Dem Senators?

  • JustLeaveMeAlone

    Seriously?

    If it walks like a duck, etc.

  • antisocial

    I want them to own everything. I want them to overreach. I want to fight for everything.

    Tell me what changed between Jan 19th and Today?

    I’ll let JustLeaveMeAlone speak for himself.

  • dld1717

    over 60% of time; its better then him now voting with Dems 60% time

    He voted for our leader so we can control committee hearings

    Perhaps if u live in a redstate these are not issues u need to deal with but I grew up in RI and had to vote for Republicans who were RINO’s to most of u just to win elections

  • dld1717

    As of this point in time

    We have to deal with OH, MO, NH, NC,KY, and FL all being competitive and lets say we don’t have great 2010 ( the Dems thought same thing would happen in 02 and we gained seats)

    Can we then afford to have Dems have 63, 64 God forbid seats until it takes us decades to knock it down??

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    from the direct clip I saw him speaking in…. doesn’t stop others from chiming in though…. Erick specifically stated the NRSC, not the RNC, so your qualm is with Cornyn, not Steele!

  • casel21

    NRO Corner, Michael Barone, excerpts from Frum (if you consider him on our side). I should have been clearer. I did not mean to imply I read such things on RedState. I too am of the Good-Riddance set.

  • steelers6

    Lindsay Grahamnasty is at it again, we just had Arlen Specter jump and now we want to put the 1st Homeland Security Director who didn’t lift a finger to stop the illegal invasion after 911.

    Grahamnasty says he would never win in PA, don’t sell yourself short there pal. You are a traitor too.

  • antisocial

    You just gave an example of democrats in 02. What happened in 06? 08? Did they go republican? No.

    How is dems having 64 seats worse than 60 seats? I want them to fulfill all their dreams.

    Menwhile let us not develop cold feet and start compromising. This is an opportunity to elect candidates that you can support with heart and mind. You are never going to get a candidate to be 100% to your liking. But you should at least look for a candidate who you can agree with 60% of the times. We need to be fired up and going full blast.

    In my opinion we should select the best possible candidates(at least consistently principled if not 100% conservative) in primaries and support them. To fight for a worthy cause is usually worth it.

  • RedInABleuState

    That would be my first choice, too.

  • antisocial

    until I stumbled upon this one….. I have to admit there is much more sensible discussion here than any of the so-called conservative sites.

    I thought you were talking abt comments here.

    We are on the same page :-)

  • Rapunzel46

    I thought Cornyn was in charge of RNSC, but Graham was talking like he is RNSC and RNC rolled all into one package on Greta, between tears over losing Specter he said he’s calling Specter in the morning — oh and then he claimed he is the 17th most conservative senator — yet he wanted Specter to stay??

  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    He is the worst possible candidate no matter what platform. He is a wimp, can’t speak, looks like he’s biting a lemon. He’s in this dying Bush McCain group in it for the money. Ridge went right out after his wimp job at Dept. of Homeland Sec and became a lobbyist for Albania. Reports I read said he didn’t bother to register as such until a year after he was raking it in. I’m with Mark Levin. These guys are one embarrassment after another. The very idea of Tom Ridge shows it’s business as usual–foreign governments, lobbying gigs, that’s all they care about. No Beltway con-men.

  • DavidSage

    My first choice would of course be Pat Toomey to be Senator, but let’s be realistic here. Pennsylvania is a very blue state. It went for Obama by double digits, and Santorum (who outspent and outraised his opponent handily) lost by nearly 20 points to a complete clown.

    Pennsylvania hasn’t gone “Red” on a Presidential level in over 20 years. When you’re talking about winning statewide in a deep blue state, I think the goal is finding which Republican can win, not which one is the most conservative. If this were South Carolina, I would be all for finding the most conservative and ideologically pure Republican we could find.

    I know everyone thinks that 2010 will be 1994, and everyone with an “R” next to his name is going to win, but that’s being delusional. Republicans are still going to have to have a fight on their hands.

    I’d be fine with Ridge. He was a very popular Governor and he can beat Specter, He’s to the right of Specter, he would be with Republicans on the big issues like card check, socialized medicine, etc.

    Plus, and this is the best part, it would be worth it just to see Specter thrown out of office after he made his deal with the devil.

  • scarlos

    Kerry won it by 3 points in 2004, and Obama only won it by 3 more points than he did the national vote, 55-44 compare to 54-46.

    So don’t write it off as a True-Blue State. Republicans can still win state-wide.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    agreed, PA and many others in the region (though MI is now pretty much a completely lost cause) can go either way at any given point – if there is a real difference in the messages people are being asked to vote from. Mid-west swing States have to have real choices to get up and get organized and/or inspired to go out and fight against ACORN over – otherwise they stay home and the State looks Bluer than it really is. Which is, IMO, all the reason more why the distinction between Red-Dog vs. RINO is needed for these type discussions.

  • scarlos

    PA congressional districts have an average CPVI index of D+2 (democrats get 2% more of the statewide vote than they do the national), which is definitely in the “swing state category”

    Which is actually, the same CPVI as the district Toomey represented for 6 years, so I’m pretty sure he can pull off a win if he is as good a campaigner as I think he is.

  • smagar

    I’d support Toomey too…if he can win statewide. ALL of Pennsylvania votes for its Senator, not just Republicans or the residents in Toomey’s old district.

    Let’s not forget—Toomey will face Ed Rendell and David Axelrod, as they marshal the full weight of the PA Democratic machine and national Dem fundraising machine.

    Face it, folks, the social conservative fight has been lost at the federal level, at least for the next generation. Obama has too many Dem senators at his disposal for us to do anything meaningful to stop him. He’s going to pack the courts with healthy Kate Michelman think/vote-alikes. And, all those freshly-minted Dem senators from conservative-heavy states like VA, CO, MT, NC, AR and LA are going to help him do it. I don’t like it, but there it is.

    We need to fight the fights we can win. For now, that means stopping this spending. While our kids have some money left. To do that, we need Senate seats. Political parties effect change by getting their people elected.

    If Ridge has the best chance of taking the PA Senate seat, I’m for him.

  • smagar

    is David Axelrod’s.

    A split GOP equals a victorious Dem party.

  • smagar

    If we don’t stop this spending, there won’t be much of a country left when we do finally return to power.

  • JadedByPolitics

    is your CORE VALUES being flushed down the toilet! I am Conservative first Republican second and if the NRSC cannot just let the people of PA decide without sticking their noses in to find “someone” else to run then they deserve NOTHING! you do what you will I will do what I will BUT you “moderates” just keep on thinking that somehow “if we just” run a RINO we can win and live with your decisions BUT I will stand by my principals THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

  • Vegas_Rick

    And how did that work out? RI is still a liberal bastion.

    Is having “Republicans” in office all that matters? If we have Ridge and Crist and Graham and we still move continually toward socialism, what good is it?

    If the majority of the country wants a nanny state, voting in RINOs won’t help much.

  • Rod_Patrick

    DOWNSIDE: It means big suffering for many of us.

    UPSIDE: It’s an opportunity for all of us to EXPOSE THE DEMOCRATS’ LIES – through their own deeds.

    Everything has a cost and elections have consequences.

  • JustLeaveMeAlone

    But I’ll High-Five it.

    When I was young and stupid, I made the same mistake with Jimmy Carter. I was barely old enough to drive and not old enough to drink, but I voted for Carter, God forgive me.

    Then I got out of college — and promptly had three jobs in a row go “poof!” thanks to Carter. Two in the auto industry, and one in real estate. I had to borrow money to go back to a “technical school” so I could find a job! All the while, the collectors were calling about my school loans.

    I had to work night-shift part-time jobs just to make my car payment, put gas in the car, and hope my parents would feed and house me until I could finish up my technical course and get a full-time job.

    All thanks to the policies of Jimmy the Nobel Prize Winner.

    It was PAINFUL. It was humiliating and exhausting. It’s a lesson I’ll never forget.

    It was Youthful Ideals meets Hard, Cold Reality.

    So nope, no Dems for me. No Liberals of either party. No RINOs because “they are better than nothing.”

  • Kevin Allen

    While Tom Ridge is not as liberal as Arlen Spector he is pro-abortion and no where near as conservative as Toomey on economic matters. I would certainly never vote for Tom Ridge in any Republican primary.

  • paulincolo

    Yes Toomey will face the dem machine, but Specter will face the economic realities at that time (if bad) and his former repub status (they can’t attack on half of Specters votes).

    The social con fight may be dead at the fed level, but I guarantee the fiscal con fight is alive and growing.

    ps – CO is no longer conservative heavy.

  • Aetius728

    PA is NOT A LIBERAL STATE!!!!!!!

    Rural PA is very conservative. The problem is that we have not been able to win over blue collar Democrats in suburban areas, the “Reagan Democrats.” Most people in PA, Dems included, are not cultural liberals like those in MA or CA. The section of the electorate that we need to win over don’t vote for Dems because they support massive welfare programs, hard core leftie social stances, or things like that. They vote for them because they think Dems are the party of the little guy. They will protect American jobs, regulate Wall Street, punish exploitive oil companies, etc.

    Yeah we have some hardcore lefties, mostly around Pittsburgh and Philly. But not enough to be influential.

    I am unable to comprehend why Republicans cannot grasp this. All they have to do is go out and talk to some blue collar Democrats. Ask them why they support Democrats. I guarantee you that 75% of the answers aren’t going to be “I think trillion dollar deficits are a good thing.” They’ll be something like “Republicans created this mess by deregulating Wall Street.”

  • smagar

    You know dod1717 that is quite ENOUGH

    You’re telling dld1717 to stop expressing his opinions? Did Erick put you in charge on these boards? Or, have you appointed yourself as Redstate’s new Thought Cop?

    Come to think of it…maybe you’re the one who should chill out a bit.

    Redstate is a site dedicated to helping the Republican Party succeed. Upthread, you just pledged to devote your heart, soul, time and money to a third party effort.

    Doesn’t that make you the one who’s going against the founding intent of this site?

  • JadedByPolitics

    dld1717 spread that stupid comment on many diaries and OBTW Neil who is in CHARGE around here told him to stop….so while you think you are being CUTE you really are just making a fool of yourself!

  • Scope

    which is unlike you, dld1717, and a few others. The key word is “Consistent” which is not in the moderates dictionary. I love when the moderates keep telling the Conservatives that they need to change, and open up the “big tent.” How about the moderates do the changing, decide what principles you value, and then consistently stick to those principles.

  • Scope

    which is unlike you, dld1717, and a few others. The key word is “Consistent” which is not in the moderates dictionary. I love when the moderates keep telling the Conservatives that they need to change, and open up the “big tent.” How about the moderates do the changing, decide what principles you value, and then consistently stick to those principles.

  • JadedByPolitics

    that I am recognized as a consistant conservative….WE Conservatives will INDEED be wrenching this party back to its senses….it will be painful for everyone BUT IT WILL HAPPEN :-)

  • Rod_Patrick

    To Smagar: Let the two fight. They don’t need you. Buckle up, bro!

    To Jaded: Sis, make it easy please. You’re humiliating the boys. LOL.

    To Scope: Watching over her sister. As if her “bully” sister needs one.

    I’m on the other corner of the street watching and laughing. My conservative community is always in a fighting mood these days.

    Just kidding guys. Cheers!

  • JadedByPolitics

    …

  • Rod_Patrick

    I agree with you. It’s my life story too: Liberal boy wanting to be hippie, and later found how conservatism is the coolest way to live and spend life ’til the end.

  • Rod_Patrick

    Kewl! LOL!

    By the way, I take your side on this. What’s the use of a “liberal” Republican Party? We might as well join the Democratic Party and act like a third party, along side with other parties.

    If that happens, I’ll join the others like you and build a conservative Party of our own.

  • AceInTX
  • JadedByPolitics

    ….

  • AceInTX

    Give the tolerance and big tent crap a break already.

    Who says Tommey can’t win? the Media? The talking heads in the cocktail circuit? The ivy league elites in the cocktail circuit?

    This is becoming mind numbing…I don’t see how anyone can look at the last two elections and conclude that the Republican Party has lost because it’s been too conservative! and how anyone can look at the examples of California and New England and conclude we need to continue doing what the GOP has done in those states for the last 20 years…Why in hell’s half acre anyone would look to an entire region of this country who does not have a single republican holding national office and conclude the rest of the country need to follow it’s example is beyond me!

    When your in a hole…the first thing you do to get out is stop digging. The Party keeps talking about conservatives making this a regional party when they’ve had their way for the last eight years and lost at every turn…Time to look ion the mirror folks..Specters, Graham’s and the rest’s contention that we’ve moved too far to the right is a joke and liberal propaganda…PERIOD!

  • AceInTX

    no one listened to us when we said people would stay home…and whined when people did exactly whatr we warned them about…

    I drank the McCain Kool aid but never begin…you and the party would do well to learn that you can only whip a dog so long before he’ll bite…and most Republicans have reached that point…look at the tea parties.

    We’re mad as hell and we won’t be taking it any more!

  • AceInTX

    That voice you hear shouting “THAT’s the spirit, …”…is David Axelrod?s.

    A split GOP equals a victorious Dem party.

    Blah Blah Blah Blah

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX

  • AceInTX

    How about standing for something…anything that the Dems don’t already stand for?

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    they had to feel the BITE of losing over and over the recent Key elections…. When the Conservatives rally across the country to support Conservatives, many still try to move the Election tone to the squish ground, and those Elections land up LOST too (Tedisco, only saying that based on the Populist tone I saw first hand – Coleman? not sure – people haven’t had enough time to grasp the Red-Dog over someone they might mistake as a RINO instead which may have effected that one somewhat – others — they all had my support).

    I was NOT going to support Specter anymore and looking forward to his being beaten in the Primary and will support Simcox over McCain (which will just make him more ill-tempered and RINO like, but it must be done)….. If they showed just enough Party loyalty I might have re-considered, but NO MORE – but, again, I will make the distinction between a Red-Dog (support) and a RINO (reject).

    I can and will expect differences, but expect some Party loyalty to those of us that help Fund their campaigns and fight to get them elected more

  • Doc Holliday

    no “come to Jesus” moment. I remember voting for Ford in an elementary school mock election, Ford won!

  • eburke

    RINOs in positions of leadership and authority destroy the ability of the rest of the Republican party to distinguish themselves from the jackasses.

    For the love of God, look no further than the state of CA. Right now the GOP could be beating the rest of the country over the head by using CA as an example to the rest of the country of what happens when you let socialists, illegal immigration activists, and government unions run the government. But we can’t do that BECAUSE THE STATE’S BEING RUN BY A ‘REPUBLICAN’ GOVERNOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don’t get you guys, I really don’t. If people are offered the choice between $100 freebie (the Dems) and a $50 freebie (RINOs) they’ll take the $100 everytime. If the issue is framed as bondage vs freedom (yes, even in the Northeast)….well, you figure it out.

    If that doesn’t work, please refer to the elections of ’80, ’84 and ’94. There’s a pattern there.

    And if that doesn’t work, consider that for the last decade we’ve been ‘moderating’ our image in New England so that we now have….oh, that’s right, ZERO Congresscritters there. What’s that old saying? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and somehow expecting a different result?

    I’m just saying….

  • AceInTX

    Here’s a hint…he and the gals weren’t conservatives….so please don’t refer to the need for us to elect liberal Republicans to help slow down spending!

  • dld1717

    Snowe and Collins are 2 seats the Dems should have but don’t

    Can’t u guys ever give Republicans in blue tilted areas a break?

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    getting people to pay attention enough to what is going on… They think they did the CHANGE/HOPE thing and gone off back to slumber…. Awakening them against the best efforts of the MSM to keep them asleep and obedient is, of course and obvious, problem.

    Obama and Democrats (like McCackle [sic - on purpose]) keep throwing out the occasional Conservative side talking points to co-opt them (which, again I/we cannot say enough – CONSERVATISE POINTS WIN ELECTIONS), the MSM covers their blatant LIE as they push the exact opposite agenda.

  • eburke

    Ummm….when you find that critter called a ‘fiscally conservative, socially moderate’ GOP CongressCritter, you let us know.

    Oh that’s right…Collins! (well, there’s that TARP deal)

    But what about Snowe? (oh yeah, TARP and the stimulus package)

    Specter? ummm, never mind.

    But Linc Chafee was….oh that’s right, a social and fiscal liberal.

    Look at the voting records, smagar. There is a direct correlation between a SocCons social record and his fiscal record. That would be because spending your grandkids money and slaughtering innocent babies are both – wait for it……moral issues!

    Oh, and btw, there’s also a direct correlation between the fact that most ‘Pub CongressCritters who are social liberals also abandon fiscal conservatism at the drop of the hat – that would be their *lack* of a moral backbone.

  • dld1717

    We are losing a state like this and u can look at past 2 cycles because we are losing the suburbs. We lost 5 Congressional people in this state alone past 2 cycles

    These are socially liberal people but fiscally conservative and yet when the economy is bad like it is I doubt many people are going to be voting on a lot social issues

    The GOP needs some sort of economic message cause I have no idea what out plan is to get this country out of the mess its in and I doubt most voters do as well

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I just irritated them and they just proved that I could have ZERO place in the Democrat Party…. took many years to convince others (as I was the first to take on the Republican moniker)….

  • AceInTX

    Face it, folks, the social conservative fight has been lost at the federal level, at least for the next generation. Obama has too many Dem senators at his disposal for us to do anything meaningful to stop him. He?s going to pack the courts with healthy Kate Michelman think/vote-alikes. And, all those freshly-minted Dem senators from conservative-heavy states like VA, CO, MT, NC, AR and LA are going to help him do it. I don?t like it, but there it is.

    This has very little to do with SoCon issues and more to do with self serving Republicans who should exorcise some truth in advertising and join their ideological brethren in the Dem Party!

    We need to fight the fights we can win. For now, that means stopping this spending. While our kids have some money left. To do that, we need Senate seats. Political parties effect change by getting their people elected.

    If Ridge has the best chance of taking the PA Senate seat, I?m for him..

    Specter isn’t a fiscal conservative any more than he’s a social conservative…neither are Collins or Snow…they are abortion supporting, big government loving, union pandering liberals of the worse order and are to the left of any number of Democrats…

    They voted for the $350 billion farm bill, the $750 billion tarp bill and the $800 billion “stimulus”…they voted against Obama’s budget only after they saw the outrage of Republicans who had elected them.

  • dld1717

    We need numbers for our side so what we have a few Senators who stray from time to time

    Its all about who they vote for Senate Majority Leader and that in turn control committees and that in turn controls what bills are brought up

  • AceInTX
  • dld1717

    Republicans like me in Blue States

    I love this party and want us to succeed on election nights not to keep on losing

  • AceInTX

    and there’s a price to be paid…in fact the Party paid it for ignoring social issues in 2008

  • AceInTX

  • dld1717

    I always look at glass and honestly I wish Arnold would stay Gov through redistricting just so we have a say

    It seems u want all or nothing I can get 10% and be happy in some cases cause I look at political figures

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX

    it’s their subversion that’s at issue…yeah…let the voters decide…and keep the party apparatus out of it till the primaries are decided!

  • eburke

    is Medicare Prescription plans, $350 billion farm bills, $700 billion bailout bills, feckless senators who can’t get judges approved even though they control the Senate…need I go on?

    We have *tried* the ‘let’s be moderate squishes so the GOP can win in the Northeast’ schtick. Again, and I repeat myself but this doesn’t seem to sink in, what we have to show for it is ZERO GOP New England Congresscritters.

    In the meantime, in an attempt to get everyone who doesn’t give a rat’s rear end about us to love us, we’ve so diluted the brand that we lose to ‘conservative Dems’ in Red States like Montana and Virginia because we don’t STAND for anything anymore.

    Sigh!!!

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    It would take 67 senators to win const amendment battles, so on that I agree that federalism is the way on that, but when it comes to judges, you are way too pessimistic, to the point of being defeatist in a self fulfilling prophecy way if what you said were to go unassailed.

    We have the younger justices and if we can make major gains in 2010 and win back the White House in 2012, then we can still win this war.

  • AceInTX
  • eburke

    Are you so myopically focused on each tree that you’re oblivious to the forest? CA is a basket case right now because it’s the living epitome of what happens when liberals run things.

    We can’t take that message to the rest of the country because ONE OF “OUR” GUYS IS RUNNING THE PLACE!!!

    I have *never* said I wanted all or nothing, and my repeated posts (and votes) supporting Norm Coleman are evidence. Unfortunately, it seems that you want something, anything, anywhere, as long as it has an R behind it’s name. We’ve tried that for the last 15 years. Look where it’s gotten us.

  • AceInTX

    Redstate is a site dedicated to helping the Republican Party succeed. Upthread, you just pledged to devote your heart, soul, time and money to a third party effort.

    Some of us think that if the Party thinks they can get along fine without us, that maybe we should go our way for a while and see how well they do!

    I can’t speak for the moderators and I’ll let Erick speak for himself…so let’s see what THEY say this sight is about.

    From Abut Red State Written by the directors:

    RedState is the leading blog for right of center online activists. Established in May of 2004 by Ben Domenech, Mike Krempasky, and Josh Trevino, RedState has played an integral role in the right?s fight online against the left.

    RedState continues to be the most widely read right of center blog on Capitol Hill and is the most cited right of center blog in the media.

    RedState has a community of tens of thousands of readers. It has a Board of Directors of six members, four permanent and two who rotate annually.

    I don’t see anything there about supporting left of center politicians just because they have an R after their name…maybe you should look around before you spout off in ignorance again!

  • smagar

    Do you and JadedByPolitics shop at the same webiste? www.madamedefarge.com?

  • AceInTX

    Wasn’t it you above who made the assertion that Social Issues are dead at the national level?

    Then you pop up here and point out the Dems picked Casey…because he’s socially conservative to defeat Santorum!

    This is too easy!

  • smagar

    How about “mdefarge” as a screen name instead?

    Or, has Michelle Malkin taken it already.

  • AceInTX

    had the voters lied and Specter looked like he had a chance…this wouldn’t be an issue because he’d have kept the R, kept voting D and been thrown out on his ear in the primaries!

    As it is, he has a chance of sticking around as a D…

    Not advocating lying…but it’s interesting to me to think about it!

  • eburke

    and your proof of that is…..?

    Or are you just resorting to name calling because you’re unable to address the substance?

  • Aetius728

    They are fiscally conservative, but they vote based on other issues, for who they think will be the best for the economy. Populist demagogurey is a potent weapon.

  • AceInTX

  • dld1717

    with zero say for us will have an impact on all of us for rest of our lives

    Enough said on your point

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX

    but you guys start out by saying “of course I’d prefer Toomey”

    give it a rest already…just admit your a squish and you want to replace a squish with a different squish!

    as for all these states not going red in 20 years…could it be that we’ve lost these states for 20 years because the state parties there have refused to run conservatives there…or espouse conservative values in any way?

  • AceInTX

    1

  • AceInTX
  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    We kept Strom and Hollings in for decades.

  • AceInTX
  • JadedByPolitics

    including Kennedy so that dog won’t hunt here either but good try!

    Obama will only get to replace the leftists that are already on the bench with other leftists….so we can purge and still get back in by the time OUR Judges decide to go away!

  • AceInTX

    Wake up!

  • nod90

    …is not so much that they don’t win blue states as that they aren’t very good at winning red states. It’s time to stop blaming Collins and Snowe and start blaming Jim Talent (lost to McCaskell) and George Allen (lost to Webb) for losing to Democrats and giving them the votes needed to pass their agenda.

    We can also add Stevens and Conrad Burns to the list of Republicans in red states who managed to lose.

  • mbecker908
  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    Roberts,

    exs: c, d and e
    pryor, owen, brown

    and those that didn’t make it were due to dems

  • mbecker908
  • Mike gamecock DeVine
  • nod90

    ….and there has never been a conservative majority, which explains why conservatives have never gotten everything they wanted.

    If conservatives were good at winning seats a conservative majority should be feasible. The 22 states that voted McCain should give you 44 conservative Senators. Swing states like Nevada and Florida might be able to give you the rest. However, strict conservatives seem to have trouble winning even in solid Republican states like Montana,

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    better in that we are more conservative than most, but worse in that

    Hollings for so long

  • AceInTX

    Dems won those districts by running Conservative Democrats. No one is blaming Collins or Snowe for losing blue states…we’re blaming them for dragging the party to the left and making it hard to know the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats.

    Maybe Republicans lost those seats because people saw the excessive spending of the Republicans in Congress and wouldn’t vote for the Republicans because in their mind they don’t see a difference between the parties…Hell…I’ve been a Republican for 20+ years and I couldn’t tell you the difference right now and believe it meant anything!

  • AceInTX

    As usual, you have a point but it’s only part of the story

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I have been pushing the difference between Red-Dog and RINO… I do NOT want a RINO in any situation – doesn’t matter the State…..

    PA – is NOT a deep, absolute hard, Blue State (in most our opinions) so “I WANT/PREFER” a Conservative Candidate – they WILL be able to win in that State if they play it straight Conservative and clearly delineate the differences between a REAL “CONSERVATIVE” REPUBLICAN and the “squishy Conservative Blue-Dog” (that really just enable the Left agenda – as discussed here) ….. Democrats that have been running as Conservatives are winning the PURPLE-ish areas/States – we need to run real Conservatives in those areas and we can win!

    OTHER STATES, however, like ME are the locations where others that are saying “can we give them a break” I say we can if we can get toward RED-DOGS rather than RINOs! There is a distinct need to differentiate!!!!!!

    Why are we settling for McCain in the RED AZ???? At least it had been Red. McCain, IMO, has help squish it toward Purple, but it is certainly still RED now and we should be looking to REPLACE MCCAIN!

    Michigan – has gone too far Blue (see my exporting/expanding BLUE-ism for more on that) at least in regard to whom we are able to get at the Federal level. I would be more than happy with a RED-DOG, not a RINO, as we are NOT going to get a full fledged Conservative, but hey I’ll certainly stand by the most Conservative candidate first and foremost should one decide to step up. I’m willing to try ONE MORE TIME!

    It all matters on the State – we have to stop insisting on these absolutes – except for when it comes to our next Presidential nominee — we are all damn tired of the McCain squish type at the top of the Ticket…. A real Conservative can/will pull enough in Red and Purple States to get the Presidency — IMO and I know that of so many others.

    Bottom line, again, for me — absolutely, positively, NO RINOs anymore, but those of less than 100% Conservative credentials are OK for me, in those BLUE areas – if they meet the Red Dog definition!!!

    Its a fine line distinction that I do not expect is going to get full airing and sink in for a long time to come, but I hope that the discussions that have been occurring around here make a start by, at least, defining the terms better! There is a difference between a Red-Dog and a RINO – properly identifying whom are which becomes a big next task.

  • smagar

    No, eburke, I’m not a mystic, so I won’t be asking Edmund Burke’s spriit his opinion of you. Although, I suspect that he’d take one look at the tone and quality of your prose and find himself wondering if he’d blundered into an episode of Jackass: The Blogger

    As for name calling…hey, I’m just trying to catch up to you and JadedByPolitics.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    and we see what I warned about at the time, i.e. that no matter how bad repubs are, dems are 100 times worse.

  • AceInTX

    There wouldn’t have been a Republican majority without the moderates..

    and we couldn’t do anything with the majority because of the moderates…what’s you point?

    However, strict conservatives seem to have trouble winning even in solid Republican states like Montana,

    Nice diversion but we’re not talking about conservatives and moderates are we? We’re talking about Specter and Ridge…bo=th are social and fiscal liberals!

  • smagar

    Gaston being both AceInTX and JadedByPolitics. You have seen Beauty And The Beast, haven’t you?

    And, Scope, I’ve been around Redstate for a while myself.

    Isn’t it time for you to crush another beer can on your head or something?

  • mbecker908

    First, you going “nuts” ain’t a drive, it’s a short walk. :->

    Second, this idiot has long – too long – posting history here of posting nothing that is intelligible or makes the least little bit of sense. He couldn’t put two rational thoughts together in the same decade if his life depended on it. And apparently, and unfortunately for us, it doesn’t.

  • smagar

    I can?t speak for the moderators and I?ll let Erick speak for himself?so let?s see what THEY say this sight is about

    Okay, Mensa, I triple dog dare you. Start a thread calling for a third party, and see how far you get.

    You talk big—-now back it up.

  • mbecker908

    SCOTUS nominees are a different breed of cat. The problems were never them, it was, for all eight years the lower courts.

  • JadedByPolitics

    NEED to come in to defend the moderate….it really doesn’t matter how long one has been around a Conservative/Republican site now does it when one is shilling for the MODERATES!

  • smagar

    He IS entertaining, though.

    We’re going to need more than Ace and the Pitchforks to win in 2010.

    You keep doing what you’re doing.

  • SteveLA

    Ace

    What are you basing your assertion about Ridge being a fiscal liberal on? Can you point to his support for the bail out, or pork spending, or privatizing NOAA to help his supporters…whoops that was Santorum.

    I can see how from your point of view, Ridge is a social liberal because he does not support your views on abortion, but what other fact or legislation did Ridge support that supports your assertion on being a social liberal? Has he come out for gay marriage? Supports the ban on prayer in schools? What do you base your social liberal charge on?

  • Doc Holliday

    this is a conservative AND Republican site. Calling for a third party is playing with fire here, just letting you know.

  • AceInTX

    It’s still fun to pick the legs off a fly…it’s just annoying to see them move around after you’re done…LOL

  • Doc Holliday

    there is no proof that they will learn.

  • nod90

    …within the Republican Party, and I don’t think they are to blame for the spending problems. A lot of the spending was the fault of the Bush White House, and some was probably the fault of Republicans on the Appropriations Committee. I think Stevens was on appropriations.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    that given the size of the Dem lib base, the long history of two party politics, human nature’s dichotomy, and the fact that conservatives already dominate the GOP, the obvious path for conservatives to govern is to take over the GOP.

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    Calm down.

    I will support the Repubilcan nominee. I hope it is Toomey.

    Ace, to your point, I support conservatives in the primary and Republicans in the general, but will not cast a vote for a pro-choice candidate period.

    That said, I am under no illusions. Toomey will have a tough race, but he can win.

    I also, by the way, am happy to be the party of Chris Shays. Chris Shays may not be great, but he would vote GOP for leadership and, unlike say Jeff Sessions or Jim DeMint, can win in Connecticut.

    All that said, I think everyone needs to take a step back away from the computer and calm down lest Moe start getting restless with the blam stick.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    they serve an essential purpose of voting for speaker and the senate majority leader

    otherwise…

  • smagar

    …and I said that because I can count.

    The Democrats elected way too many Senators from strong conservative states. They’ll be in place long enough for Obama to pack the courts.

    Anyone with half a brain could see that coming.

    And yet, why couldn’t the SoCon movement get Allen and Burns elected in VA and MT, respectively, in 2006? The benefit in doing so was apparent: The two most infirm SCOTUS justices were the court’s two most liberal ones. You had a president who’d learned his lesson with Harriet Miers, and was primed to replace either Stevens or Ginzburg with the next Sam Alito.

    All Bush needed was a GOP Senate. We know what happened.

    Fast forward to 2008. Now, the situation for the SoCons should have been even more alarming. Obama, the most pro-abort of all presidents, was about to assume power with a Dem majority Senate. The GOP needed as many Senators as it could to slow him down.

    So, what happened?

    1) GOP seats flipped in VA, CO and NC—all states with strong conservative majorities.
    2) TomlinsonDouthat, a commenter on this SITE, once cited a study that showed that Arkansas and Louisiana were two of the nation’s most pro-life states. Well, in 2008 two of the Dems’ most vulnerable senators were from those states—Pryor and Landrieu.

    Surely, the SoCon movement, smarting from its loss of a golden opportunity in 2006, and mindful of the need to slow Obama, could have won THOSE seats, right?

    Nope.

    Respectfully, you’re not doing well on the scoreboard, where it counts.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    that is likely in 2010

  • smagar

    on Porkulus.

    Without those three, that bill wouldn’t have happened.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    republican even if the dem were pro life, under the circumstances that have obtained since 1963

    clarifications re “circumstances” available upon request

  • Doc Holliday

    we want a conservative agenda, limited government, maximum liberty. Why is it all our leading talkers and thinkers: Limbaugh, Hannity, Steyn, Cunningham, O’Rourke, Boortz, Sowell, etc. all support libertarian-conservatism? Why are they the ones that bring in the numbers and not Dobson? The reason is libertarian-conservatism is clear, it is consistent, and it is a winner. Just ask Reagan.

  • smagar

    Second, this idiot has long – too long – posting history here of posting nothing that is intelligible or makes the least little bit of sense. He couldn?t put two rational thoughts together in the same decade if his life depended on it. And apparently, and unfortunately for us, it doesn?t.

    I presume you’re referring to dld1717 here.

    I don’t agree with a lot of what dld1717 says…but he does make me think.

    idiot
    He couldn?t put two rational thoughts together in the same decade if his life depended on it.

    This isn’t the kind of writing I’d expect to see from a Redstate Contributor.

    What is becoming of this SITE?

  • eburke

    And I’m not the one who said Burke would retch if he knew I used his ‘name’. That was you. Now you say that you’re not a mystic and wouldn’t know his opinion of me. So…which is it?

    The *only* interaction I’ve had with you was above. You will note that while I may have used sarcasm and satire to illustrate what I believe to be rather large lapses of logic in your positions (that would be me expressing my opinion), it was you point of view I was satirizing, not you personally.

    If you would point out to me when and where I personally attacked you, (why you chose to attack my handle, of all things, eludes me) and called you anything close to a ‘jackass’, I will apologize.

    In the meantime, the score is: Personal Attacks – 2 Response to the substance of the comments – 0

  • smagar

    We have a long fight ahead of us.

    Eventually, Ace and Jaded will have to get their meds straightened out.

    Then, we can all fight like cats and dogs in the big conservative tent.

    We have no choice. Otherwise, our kids will be broke. And, once we all get old and senile, they’ll have our powers of attorney. And then where will we be?

    Strength and honor, y’all!

  • Doc Holliday

    heck Reid, Murtha, and their former minority whip, boner, b something was pro-life. I would take a real conservative federalist who left it to the states above them for sure.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    Mike gamecock “Diarist Period” DeVine

    Does “contributor” mean that they can get redhot in redhot?

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    positions matter and even on judges, it shouldn’t matter. What should matter is their judicial philosophy and even if a dem is pro life, he will rarely matter given the position of his party.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    and on this matter ‘Becker, I must confess that only President Bush, via the bully pulpit could have won the day. His pitiful new tone prohibited same.

    But, the reason I still give Bush very high marks on judges are the quality and the legal effect of those he did get seated.

    There is a 5-4 majority now on many crucial issues, esp free speech and religion issues, many of which have been corrected already and the very high quality of Owens, Rogers-Brown and Pryor on the appeals court.

  • dld1717

    I love this post

  • http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

    that lives you life wrapped around the latest poll. I feel sorry for you, neve knowing what you will believe tomorrow,.

  • bs

    Even if a politician can’t accomplish anything legislatively with respect to abortion, holding a pro-choice position is a strong indicator of their personal moral character, and that character will inevitably carry forward into other areas. It is a barometer of the person.

    No way, nowhere, no how on a pro-choice candidate.

  • mbecker908

    made the Senators pass the nuclear option if necessary.

  • http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

    obsequiousness, fecklessness and vacuous league for expediency also equals a victorious Democrat Party.

  • mbecker908

    He’s a thoughtful poster and even when I disagree with him he does present a well thought out and cogent (even though wrong :-) ) argument.

    Follow the little blue lines smagar. I was referring to nod90 who, in fact is an idiot, etc.

  • smagar

    I’m confident that you’re not going to say much of anything, ever, that I find to be of value.

    And, to be frank, I care very little for your opinion of me and my thoughts.

    Feel free to comment on anything I write. I may respond…but don’t be surprised if I don’t. I plan to comment on your work when I feel compelled to.

    Fair winds and following seas.

  • dld1717

    Federal Courts will get jammed now with plenty of liberals

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    of the nuclear option and think that had Bush used his political clout, he wouldn’t have needed that option. So, on this, I blame Bush, not Specter, et al.

  • smagar

    …and I’m still getting the hang of these bifocals. (Who knew my neck was going to be so stiff?)

    I’ll pull out a ruler next time. For now, this was my bust—mea culpa.

    :(

  • AceInTX

    at some point the strategy of electing squishes to vote on procedural items becomes counterproductive…the last eight years of runaway spending by Republicans is a prime example

  • dld1717

    I doubt Ridge runs but lets say Congressman Gerlach runs as he noted today he may and its him vs Toomey and Gerlach wins primary will u guys support him as much as a Toomey win?

    To be honest I am intrigues by Gerlach running

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    take it from an actual veteran snake that pushed a judge to send a jury out TWICE within 30 minutes in a trial due to my blue lines re laughing out loud when a witness obviously lied…blue lines can get s light blue (see faded tar heels) that all one sees is the epithet and the object.

    An old saying: he who represents himself has an idiot for a lawyer and a fool for a client!

    my brother

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    that Bush owns the blame for the spending problem. Had he led on spending, his party would have followed. Look at the converse: a HUGE majority of repubs voted for the budgets with the squishes, so hard is it to oppose a president of one’s own party.

  • mbecker908

    With respect to bifocals, get two pairs of bifocals. One with a distance prescription and the lower reading prescription for “life” and a second pair with the distance (top) prescription calibrated at about 30″ with the reading prescription lowers. That way you can look at your monitor through the top and still have bifocals to read.

    Cured my stiff neck.

  • Doc Holliday

    I used to fight with my liberal teachers, fly a Confederate flag from my truck, and still had friends of all races and creeds. I never felt I was put upon or disliked, but that was a different age, even though it was the late 80s. Our country seems to be so full of anger now, I don’t even fly a confederate flag because the intent was never to hurt. It is funny, people seemed to accept and even enjoy differences back then, now it is all pc, everyone is so angry, it sucks.

  • AceInTX

    Just take the near revolt of the squishes on the surge…those that voted against the Bush tax cuts…the gang of 14 etc.

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX
  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    moderates effectively bucked the president, and even on that, the odds are that had they not, the dems would have bucked him worse absent the “nuclear option” which I think was unconstitutional in the way they were considering employing it.

    The fact is that dems did the bucking that actually bicked and the only remedies to that are numbers or political leadership from a President with clout.

  • AceInTX

    A lot of the spending was the fault of the Bush White House, and some was probably the fault of Republicans on the Appropriations Committee.

    But Snowe and Collins are very influential in close votes and they have become masters along with McCain, Graham, and the rest at timing things to do maximum damage to the Republican Party

  • AceInTX

    The issue here is the NRSC using party resources to undermine a more conservative who almost took out Specter six years ago and promoting another Specter to challenge him after he’s made Specter run away with his tail between his legs.

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX

    http://www.yahoofreak.com/3D%20Smileys/3D%20Communication%20Smileys/applause.gif

  • AceInTX

    You got me…Me and Jaded are best buds…so what’s your point?

  • Tomlinson Douthat

    That same study, now four years old, indicated at the time that a couple of the most pro-choice states (NH and NV) had two at least nominally pro-life senators, and a number of other states at least as pro-choice as LA and AR are pro-life had single pro-life senators. Nobody back then was saying that the social liberal movement was dead at the national level.

    Also, I should note that, according to 2008 exit polls, no state, not even Mississippi, has even a bare majority of self-identified conservatives, much less a strong majority. (Nor does even DC have a bare majority of self-identified liberals.) Mississippi and DC both have respectively conservative and liberal pluralities, but I would guess that most states have pluralities of self-identified moderates, and I know that this is the case in VA, CO, and NC. These three are swing states, and they swung. They’ll swing back in the future, probably.

    As for the larger issue–which I can only assume, through all these subthreads, is how best to beat Specter in 2010–I would have to say that, in general, history tends to show that a fairly key element in most winning campaigns is criticizing one’s opponent. I don’t see how Ridge could criticize Specter if they don’t disagree on anything.

  • OccamsRazor

    That, as much as McCain may be a decent Republican, he went head to head and lost. The country will see him as an icon for the party, which can be a handicap.

    I realize that we don’t throw our guys under the bus like the d’s do, but it DOES require reflection.

    Personally, it depends on bo’s public opinion at the moment/time there’s a chance to make the decision one way or another.

    If it’s great, keep McCain. If it’s poor, marginalize him at minimum.

  • AceInTX

    see 2004 and the Bush strategy of ignoring moderate voices and not chasing after moderates and independents and appealing to the SoCon Base…

    The Dems did everything and more than they said they needed to to win…and the base turned out in even bigger numbers and kicked their asses…to bad Bush didn’t stick with the base on spending and everything else after that…

    contrast that to 2006 and 2008 when the Republicans had a conscious strategy to downplay social issues and pander to moderates and independents…

    We’ve argued with each other a lot over this Doc and I don’t want to belabor it because I’m with you to a point…I’m more libertarian oriented but I recognize the need for a moral standard to govern our behavior in order to responsibly exorcise those liberties.
    What I don’t get is your and the rest here’s insistence on making this all about SoCons and your insistence on pushing SoCons to the back of the bus…
    you want to talk about a regional party…try winning elections without us….you guys get your way and not only will the Republican Party lose all their seats in New England and California…you’ll lose the south too…so what does that leave you? a few western states….states I might add being taken over by illegal immigrants whom McCain would make citizens so they could vote Democrat?

    Good luck with all that

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX

    they start calling names they admit defeat!

  • AceInTX
  • OccamsRazor

    He’s a Rally Cry.

    An Idealogical Firewall against the push southwestward.

    If we don’t even try, then we’ve already failed.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    is much more relevant when social issues are more relevant and that when economic issues are so very paramount that it is quite beside the point, esp with respect to Michigan and PA. PA goes red when they connect lib policies to recessions and in Michigan, isn’t he ground past fertile and actually fetid for a real conservative on economic issues?

    To me, the Ridge issue is quite hysterical. Of course we must not violate the rule that we broke when we backed Specter against Thune in a GOP primary by repeating the mistake with Ridge? and on the issue of abortion?

    No one cares. The swing voters in PA are focused on the pocketbook and are quite ripe to do what they did in 1980, in 2006, esp if the dem’s that own the double digit unemployment choice is a recent turncoat.

  • AceInTX

    though not on style…but Shays lost.

    I do wholeheartedly agree here:

    I support conservatives in the primary and Republicans in the general, but will not cast a vote for a pro-choice candidate period.

    There is a limit to that for me and I reached it with McCain…I’m through selling out and will deal with the consequences of standing by my principles that result.

    as for the tenor of my posts in this thread…I’m having fun here as much as I am fighting with anyone but I take the warning and beg Moe to spare the Blam stick please!

  • AceInTX
  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I clearly stated that it is my opinion that PA is not too far Blue yet, a true full-fledged unapologetic Conservative is what is needed there right now at this time — especially to contrast Specter being the opponent — I SUPPORT TOOMEY! I do NOT want any group meddling in what is already in motion. PERIOD!!!!

    But regardless of the Primary, not like the NRSC is going to listen to us (they haven’t thus far) if they do meddle I think Toomey will prevail over Ridge because far too many of us Republicans are yearning for a Conservative to come out of the Primary! But I am being honest enough to state up front that if it doesn’t work that way I will be supporting the Republican General election candidate whomever it is! Specter MUST be challenged/unseated!

    Please don’t forget the top I AGREE WITH YOU PART this time ;-) lol

  • AceInTX

    read the “About Red State” I don’t think it says we’ll all be shills for the Republican Party no matter how far left they move.

    as for my use of the word ignorant…I was using the term in the spirit of you saying something without knowing what’s going on and had no intention of calling your intelligence into question which too many use the word to mean…

    with that in mind, I apologize

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I cleared this more in my reply to ACE …. we’ve said alot and he just forgot the portion where I agree with both (most of us do) about PA…. I have spoken some additional thoughts, in general, regarding any/all areas of the country that clouded/confused. Again, we are saying/reading alot, some parts can get easily and honestly garbled. Location and timing matters between Red, Blue, and/or Purple leanings.

    I’d like to clone Reagan DNA and run him in PA this election! but remember even Reagan let us down in not challenging Democrat spending enough – no where near the trouble we are in today though, of course.

    I want the most Conservative candidate available in PA and AZ coming out of the Primary (yes, I still hold out that McCain could be beat, as unlikely as it is – I want it to be tried).

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    Jeesh, I wish we could get on the phone. I have so much to say on this and am so tired and not a fast typist.

    Of course, I know that you both can imagine a circumstance where the life position was outweighed by so much more weight on so many more issues. If I didn’t KNOW that, I would assume you were in need of straight jackets and wouldn’t risk carpal tunnel at 2 am est.

    right?

    you can imagine such a scenario?

    before I proceed

    not suffering fools well

    any damn scenario

    use Hitler if you must

    waiting on a yes, and then I will unleash the announcer of dawns

    smile

    but seriously

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    of puny minds retort

    brother

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I’d like to see, even though I contend MI is probably too Blue for the National level elections, for former Gov John Engler to come forth and run for the US Senate next time around. I’d like us to take one more crack at a real Conservative going against these Ultra-Left Senators we have before we have to move to the Red-Dog definition candidate.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    Reagan and cloning him!

  • AceInTX

    it’s a hypothetical exorcise when I reference it…as in good luck winning without us if we leave…

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX

    Where you miss the boat at the word Conservatives…Conservatives aren’t the ones recruiting candidates…so in that you are correct…we need to do a better job taking the party apparatus from the less than conservative people that run the party…especially in Red States. In that I can cede the argument…you are right…we’re to blame for allowing the party to be run by people who do not by into the Conservative agenda…

    Where we part ways is when we start talking about keeping 40% conservatives around and having the party apparatus used to defeat conservatives for less conservative candidates in the primaries.

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    “barometers of [a] person” that can’t accomplish anything legislatively…

    First, some DeVine gamecock rules of life based on history.

    1-The character of legislators is rarely relevant since they are not leaders and since all they do that directly impacts our lives is to vote yea or nay on written laws.

    2-Barbers cut hair. We can see the result and judge accordingly.

    3-Pro-life dem has a history of voting against a strong defense, for high taxes, for greater regulation of business, and for big government.

    4-Pro-choice republican votes for strong defense, for lower taxes, for smaller government and slugs a bushlied dem on live national TV for emboldening terrorist enemies with appeasement talk.

    5-Neither has voted on any significant abortion legislation since 1971 since the Sup Ct pre-empted the issue.

    well?

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    even by your own terms, i.e. that social issues were dead at the national level in 2006 you ask:

    “And yet, why couldn?t the SoCon movement get Allen and Burns elected in VA and MT, respectively, in 2006?”

    Social issues were irrelevant in 2006 and 2008 and, in any event, it is the duty of all conservatives to get republicans elected, and I think the data shows that the main people that stayed home were fiscal conservatives in both years.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    of the PRO-LIFE Party….. Pro-Life Democrats only get us Democrat majority and Infanticide policy promotion!

    sad to hear anyone will pass on a 98% correct candidate and is part (of so many different factors) that got us here today.

  • Pomme

    It’s LeFou.

    Just saying.

    Don’t want to start an argument or anything. :D

  • JadedByPolitics

    I had no idea what in the heck a Lemoo or whatever was I just like to use people’s own words against them when they are silly :-) I am sure there is something in interesting in a Lemoo or a LeFou but I don’t care!

  • smagar

    not in 2006. On November 1 2006 we had a GOP-controlled Senate. On November 1 of 2009 we will have a Democratic-controlled Senate, for years to come.

    Perhaps “dead” is too strong a word—but not by much.

    Many of the issues social conservatives hold most dear are influenced the most directly by the rulings of our judiciary. At the top of that list—abortion. I’d throw gay marraige in that mix, too.

    Now, because of the EIGHT (or more) former GOP Senate votes that will now organize the Senate Judiciary committee the way Harry Reid and Pat Leahy wish, there is no realistic way the pro-life movement can stop or slow our federal judiciary from becoming more pro-Roe for the next generation.

    Social issues were irrelevant in 2006 and 2008

    How can you say social issues were irrelevant in 2006 and 2008? I think I laid out a solid case why they were VERY relevant…and yet the SoCon base couldn’t (or wouldn’t) get done what needed to be done—elect GOP Senators.

    If the SoCon movement chose to take a break from politics in 2006 and 2008, for whatever reasons, they chose very, very badly. And now, they have to pay the price.

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that the SoCon movement really did move heaven and earth to try and get those Senators reelected. Well…it failed. Perhaps that’s a sign that many, many Americans are not moved by the SoCon’s message, in whole or in part.

    Fiscal conservatism always can look to the House of Representatives as a change mechanism. If the popular mood swings strongly enough over a 2-4 year period. we can transform the House pretty fast. (Many northeast Republicans who left our party are moderate-to-neutral on social issues, but strong on fiscal ones).

    Federal judges are forever.

    If the GOP leaders who remain in Washington decide to emphasize fiscal issues over social ones, I don’t blame them. Many SoCon policy objectives—stopping abortion, stopping gay marraige—-may be too far out of reach now.

    Politics is the art of the possible.

  • mbecker908

    Consistent with everything else about the last five years of his administration, he did absolutely nothing. He was asked (and I can’t find the cite) about the nuclear option to get judicial nominees approved and he said something to the effect of “Senate rules are business of the Senate not the administration”. There was absolutely NO leadership from GWB on judicial nominees. And apparently no pressure on Specter or the GOP Senate leadership at any point.

  • eburke

    is agreeing to disagree, I’m probably good with that.

    Frankly, I’m perplexed. On the one hand, you traverse this site screaming that we need to be a big tent and that socons are crowding everyone else out. When challenged to provide evidence of any CongressCritter who objectively can be called fiscally conservative and socially liberal, instead of using that opportunity to promote your viewpoint, you mock someone’s handle and call them a jackass….and have yet to respond to the substance of anything said.

    Then, you pull out the ‘agree to disagree’ card. Except for one exchange, we haven’t even *discussed* anything. If you’re that passionate about your views then man up and fight for them! Who knows, if you have cogent, logical arguments and proof that you’re correct, you may even sway some minds.

    And formulating that sentence is when the light bulb went on. You’ve just demonstrated the reason ‘Red Dogs’ and RINOs shouldn’t be in leadership positions – at the first sight of conflict instead of manning up and forcefully arguing the validity of their beliefs, they run up the white flag of surrender and just want to play nice so that no one thinks they’re being ‘devisive’. (in your case, you also threw in the leftist SOP of name-calling instead of responding to the substance of the argument…but that’s a whole different tangent)

    So…I’ll welcome constructive dialogue with you anytime; and if you choose not to reply – well, I won’t lose a whole lot of sleep.

    But the bottom line is – ‘Red Dogs’ and RINOs in positions of leadership in our party has been a disaster because people can’t follow you if they have no idea where you’re going.

  • eburke

    n/t

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    social conservatives were the most loyal republicans at the polls in the past two elections and we know that the main issues were the war in 2006 and the economy in 2008 and so there was no great social issue for their have been a backlash about. Moreover, in most all but one state where gay marriage or abortion issues were on the ballot or an issue in particular races, the social conservative position won.

    Maybe you are correct that social conservatives didn’t highlight that difference in many races. We do know that many Democrats DID highlight their pro-life bona fides and won.

    But I have researched this matter extensively and written a lot about it (see archives) because of the false meme of the left that some anti-so con republicans have used to shift the blame from themselves for our losses which were due to liberal spending and a moderate McCain.

    That said, Fred Thompson did convince me that we are better off, given the rules for const amendments and the state of the senate, even when we were the majority, given dems in redstates and blue states, at dealing with these issues via federalism at the state level.

    This is actually happening now thanks to some 5-4 decisions on religious free speech.

    But we do need one more vote re Roe.

    more later

  • AceInTX
  • AceInTX

    and it’s compounded when you are posting in three separate threads.

  • AceInTX

    one thing that hasn’t been discussed here is the fact that the NRSC putting someone up against Toomey will wipe out his war chest and weaken him in the general…

    We desperately need to do something about the Party leadership…this is insane…they are openly defying the base of the party and daring us to do something…Putting Ridge up doesn’t make it more likely we would win PA…it makes it less likely because whoever emerges will have a depleted campaign fund to go up against Specter.

  • AceInTX

    we don?t throw our guys under the bus like the d?s do, but it DOES require reflection.

    We don’t throw our guys under the bus…we pander to our Benedict Arnolds in the party….Maybe we SHOULD consider throwing them under the bus because the Dems win when they do it to their defectors!

  • eburke

    the MSM and the Dems would hang Bush around Ridge’s neck he’d sink faster than a traitorous mobster wearing concrete shoes.

    So now ya got the unions and Dems slobbering over Spectre (or whoever), ya got independents running from Ridge ’cause of the whole Bush thing, and ya got conservatives (both fiscon & socons) staying at home ’cause Ridge is anathema to them.

    And this is a winning coalition? Puhleeze!!!

  • AceInTX

    First…as far as SCOTUS goes…if Obama replaces two Scorus nominees it will be Ginsburg and Kennedy…it wouldn’t change the makeup of the court all that much.

    The other point being the gang of 14…They stopped Frist from implementing the nuclear option at the exact point when the Dems would have had to back off or have it used against them. It’s a fact of history that it’s never been invoked because the party that is endagered by the threat backs off…but true to form, Snowe, Collins, McCain, Graham, Warner, Dewine, and Chafee torpedoed the strategy at the tipping point when it was cutting hard against the Democrats.

    I’ll point out that I was under the mistaken impression that Specter was one of them….I went back and he wasn’t part of it…

  • The_Gadfly

    had decided in the last primary, Toomey would be the Jr Senator from PA in good standing to win re-election and we wouldn’t be experiencing all the hand-wringing about the Dems having a 60-40 filibuster proof majority. The problem in the last election was that the so-called professionals put their fingers on the scales in favor of an anointed candidate. They should bloody well leave the primary alone and let Pennsylvanian’s decide.

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    So of course they would like to deplete Toomey’s campaign funds.

    I mean their whole schtick is that Conservatives are not electable and therefore we have to outpander the Democrats by moving to the left and anathematizing conservatives.

    Should Toomey actually win as a conservative in a state like Pennsylvania, that would put the lie to all their claims. Even worse, it might put their seats in jeopardy as conservatives start looking for someone to replace them.

    Thus out of self-preservation and cowardice, they want to sink Toomey. And the key step is to run Ridge and divided the party – after which they will feed to the press that Toomey is a divisive figure and it is the conservatives who are destroying the party’s chances.

  • AceInTX

    under circumstances where the majority is united the threat is all that’s ever been needed because it forces the other side back down rather than deal with the can of worms the option would open for the minority.

    Of course, the Republican caucus wasn’t united so we got five of Bush’s ten original appellate nominees confirmed and threw the two of the ten who hadn’t withdrawn in disgust over the side! the Rest is history, The Dems continued to obstruct in other ways blocking Bush’s nominees and now we’re going to fill all the vacancies that were never filled with Obama appointees…what’s all the more frustrating is that those appointees would be seated whether the Dems had sixty or not because the Moderates would have never gone along with the caucus to block any of them!

  • The_Gadfly

    Steve’s just getting his undies in a bunch ’cause one of his idols has shown just how flawed the wares he’s usually hawking are. Like you, I understood nyukid perfectly and liked it. And my hometown isn’t anywhere near Lexington or Concord.

  • AceInTX

  • AceInTX

    And formulating that sentence is when the light bulb went on. You?ve just demonstrated the reason ?Red Dogs? and RINOs shouldn?t be in leadership positions – at the first sight of conflict instead of manning up and forcefully arguing the validity of their beliefs, they run up the white flag of surrender and just want to play nice so that no one thinks they?re being ?devisive?. (in your case, you also threw in the leftist SOP of name-calling instead of responding to the substance of the argument?but that?s a whole different tangent)

  • eburke

    hasn’t gotten, and won’t get, a single dime from me. I would like to think that you’re all wet and paranoid. Unfortunately, I believe that you are dead on.

    And I *so* thought that based on past positions, Cornyn was one of “us”. What *happens* to these people once they get to D.C?

    Sigh!!

  • AceInTX

    thanks for the go ahead should I ever need it though…

  • eburke

    And in that moment of clarity, the seeds of a diary were born (now I just have to find the time to do it)

  • AceInTX

    Especially here:

    As for the larger issue?which I can only assume, through all these subthreads, is how best to beat Specter in 2010?I would have to say that, in general, history tends to show that a fairly key element in most winning campaigns is criticizing one?s opponent. I don?t see how Ridge could criticize Specter if they don?t disagree on anything.

  • AceInTX

    I don’t know about burns but I can ask you…what’s your point about Allen?

  • AceInTX

    Ridge wins the nomination and the results are as you describe…with the addition of a small war chest to take on Specter…(and I forgot to add the NRSC wastes funds that would be better used in the General to defeat Democrats).

    On the other hand, Toomey wins….against ridge…his war chest is depleted…he’s beaten up and bloody after Ridge has spent the last year trashing him as an extreme right winger and wrong for PA…and again the NRSC wastes funds backing a moderate against a Conservative that would be better spent defeating Dems in the General.

  • AceInTX

    2

  • The_Gadfly

    And give the RI thing a break. I grew up in PA, it’s only blue because idiots keep putting RINOs like Specter up for election and the MSM eats it up. Put up a real Republican like Toomey and the MSM will start wondering what hit them. Sure, they’ll do the amicable dunce thing like they did with Reagan, but we will win, and we’ll move the country in the correct direction, fix the economy and start making people free and happy again.

  • AceInTX

    nt

  • antisocial

    You are making it painful to follow the discussion…. Can you keep all you have to say in one thread?

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    absolutely… those are probably the best 2 points as to why Ridge should just tell the NRSC or anyone else asking him to run at this point NO, next time if needed. Ridge should step up, IMO (and I’m sure yours), and say we need to UNITE behind the candidate that has already been out there laying the ground-work to challenge Specter and rally behind him NOT CHALLENGE HIM and land up risking beating ourselves.

    YES?

    Even if someone lurking around here doesn’t like Toomey and would prefer Ridge, I would hope they would at least recognize the potential harm of the points that have been raised. I am NEVER a fan of the “that person is next” philosophy, Toomey is the person that is best in line/position (and, again, preferred IMO as the more Conservative candidate) to challenge Specter – that hasn’t IMO changed just because Specter jumped to the Democrats – if he was best in position to run against Specter as a Primary challenger then he is “probably” (this is all our opinion and speculation, none of us know for certain) the best to run against Specter in the General.

    I do understand the merit/idea of running a former Governor – as I’d like to see former MI Governor John Engler step up and challenge one of our Democrat Senators — but at this time and in this instance I agree that Ridge is NOT the best candidate to do this strategy AT THIS TIME anyway for the reasons we’ve outlined (the least being the Ridge/Bush morphing – BDS strategy that would be effective to motivate Democrats against Ridge in a General).

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    All aboard — next stop AZ!

    Mr. McCain – RETIRE! your time has passed! You LOST and in so many respects have been contributing to helping so many other Republicans LOSE by your presence.

  • eburke

    The mod republicans always talk about ‘next in line’; well, Toomey’s ‘next in line’ and stepped up when no one else wanted to. Not to mention the fact that I think Ridge is a sure-fire loser for the reasons I posited except in the minds of those who haven’t yet figured out what the disease is – the GOP Political Class.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    as I discuss in my “Exporting/Expanding BLUE-ism shaping Elections to come” Diary….. just a few Counties in these States are piling on enough votes (potentially with the ACORN strategy of having no qualms with making up voters to cast ballots) to over-ride the will of the rest of the States. This is a big problem in all the Mid-West Swing-States.

    People in the other counties often get discouraged and don’t get out in enough numbers to over-come those other counties and/or some just don’t get it and somehow buy into the BDR (or whatever) and think it is OK to vote for a Democrat that pretends to be Moderate on the campaign trail – FAILING to recognize and grasp that it just ensures the Ultra-Left Liberals that control the Democrat Party will keep them in line and voting the Far-Left Progressive agenda once elected. WAKE UP PEOPLE, you cannot vote for a Democrat under any circumstance or for any reason – you just empower the Ultra-Left!!!

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    to be clear, for those who jump in just at these comments and may take them out of context…. We are NOT advocating that as a reason, that is an acceptable concept all the time, just this one very narrow instance/circumstance as a specific strategy against a specific set of defined insider GOP people to make the point to/with!!! It is a poor excuse to pick a Candidate, normally. It has FAILED (remember Bob Dole, who I personally liked but wasn’t really Conservative enough and why he HAD to have Kemp to boost the ticket, just as McCain had to have Palin to boost the ticket)… anyway… FAILED us so many times.

    We are just saying that the McCain types like to use that argument, and in just this one instance/case we should throw their own “Next In Line” excuse/argument back up in their faces because Toomey is (more or less) the “Next In Line” in this instance with his already having stepped up before when no-one else wanted – trouble is, of course, they will be arguing that Ridge has taken it for the Party and is “Next In Line” to move on/up — We are just saying we should counter their argument with their own argument – in this case – against those that oppose Toomey BUT NOT as an actual advocacy of Toomey to the average Republican voter (that tired old argument just loses us support, IMO). They want someone to feel enthused about, and a Conservative agenda push with Toomey will hopefully do it.

  • AceInTX

    The RNC, and the NRSC would not run anyone against Specter in 2004 or this year and they’d keep him in there into perpetuity till Toomey did the work, spent the money campaigning against Specter and once he took him out…here come the opportunistic Moderates to exploit the situation and reap the benefit of Toomey’s work and destroy him with a squish of their own….

    That in my estimation is the biggest outrage and ought to make all Republicans mad be they Moderate or Conservative!

  • AceInTX
  • Doc Holliday

    No one is pushing Socons to the back of the bus. Our latest leaders, Frist, BUSH, Delay were all SOCONS. Many of us here just don’t get how you guys can always complain about being ignored when it is the exact opposite of reality.

    The wining philosophy of Goldwater-Reagan-Founding Fathers has not had it’s chance in a while, why not join the team and give it a try?

  • AceInTX

    I’d be hard pressed to answer your question in the affirmative GC…a person’s position on life speaks to what his or her positions are on every aspect of the Constitution and the rights endowed by our Creator!

  • AceInTX

    Your standing before the White Throne of Judgment and the Lamb asks you if you were ever complicit in the death of innocents?

    Your answer would be?

    I see the point you’re making and this is a matter of conscience…I could see how you could justify voting for the pro-choice candidate in your scenario…but my conscience wouldn’t allow me to get to my scenario when I’m home and not be able to answer no without equivocation!

  • eburke

    Personally, I think the ‘next in line’ thing is so much hooey and would *never* base my selection upon it. But, since the ‘Red Dogs/RINOs love to use it so much – well, what’s sauce for the goose……

  • eburke

    that frosted me from the first time I read the title of the post. It was one of those ‘You can’t be serious/you’ve got to be joking’ moments. A principalled conservative steps up to the plate (no thanks to the ‘power brokers’), exposes Snarlin’ Arlen for the Arnold he is, and now *you’ve* got the unmitigated gall and arrogance to ‘swoop in’ and annoint his successor when you didn’t lift a finger to expose his weakness? Puhleeze!!!!

    So….you’re the resident pit bull, Ace? How’d you manage to miss this low-hanging redmeat? :-)

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    we can all use a fresh set of eyes and an extra hand from time to time…

    low hanging red-meat – lol – perfect!

  • Mike gamecock DeVine

    can affect the life issue, esp including the need for a strong defense

  • AKSteveB

    there really are two possible as opposed to theoretical things one can do to reduce abortion. One is to donate and/or be involved with the Crisis Pregnancy type places, the other is to advance federalist judges. I think if God asks someone if they did their best on the issue, that would be how I’d want to be judged. YMMV

  • Swamp_Yankee

    The local committees are often best positioned to understand why a Republican is a “RINO”. Many conservatives are ready, able and willing to push the envelope in a Blue State, as much as they can, while trying to garner enough of the vote to actually win. This still requires some compromise. Others just fall in line because tehy like being the reconciler and care more about tone and compromise than any core principles. Some just like being mavericks. Some are opportunistic Dems who couldn?t get nominated in their own party.

    On paper, they all seem the same. To an outsider, they all seem the same. Outsiders will try to make judgments from articles they find on Google or their voting records. This is bull. There are lots of backroom politickings, leg work and maneuvering going on that people don?t understand.

  • AceInTX

    my scenario turned out to be a little incomplete…What if the Lamb were to ask if you were complicit in the deliberate death of innocents?

    Your point concerns innocents who are caught up in a war…I oppose war that deliberately targets noncombatants as opposed to war where noncombatants are accidentally killed due to faulty intelligence or close proximity to the enemy

  • AceInTX