I’m reminded of a quote from the media a couple of months ago that conservatives could not support Charlie Crist in Florida because of his support for diversity initiatives. The reporter failed to them point out that these white Christian conservatives were supporting the Latino candidate.
What reminded me was this quote
Tom Slade, a former chairman of the Florida GOP, said popularity always trumps ideology, and he predicted Crist easily would win the Republican nomination.
That, he added, that might be good for the party as a whole.
“There are not enough blue-eyed, white, blond guys and girls who go to church three times on Sunday and once on Wednesday to make up a majority for the Republican Party almost anywhere,” Slade said. “If we don’t broaden the party, there won’t be much of a party left.”
Yes, so let’s broaden the party by electing a white guy instead of a Latino.
Well said, Mr. Slade.
Likewise, the NRSC (though I’m sure it doesn’t want to take full credit) has decided to trot out a host of sitting United States Senators to applaud the NRSC’s decision to endorse Charlie Crist.
Who have they trotted out? John Thune, LIndsey Graham, and Mitch McConnell.
Let’s ignore Thune for a minute. Is trotting out John McCain’s Senate boy the best idea to reassure Republicans?
Additionally, do they really want the GOP to feel reassured that Mitch McConnell blesses this endorsement? Exactly how many seats has the GOP picked up with Mitch McConnell as Senate Leader? How about loses every time?
NRSC: Fail
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Money Wednesday, May 13th at 4:51PM EDT (link)After joining the group, invite John Cornyn to join.
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They are going to push Christ, they are going to push Jeb Bush...
kyle8 Wednesday, May 13th at 4:57PM EDT (link)they are going to push a whole lot of unacceptable candidates and they are going to push millions out of the party. You mark my words.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Crist will be our candidate....
Jack Wednesday, May 13th at 6:00PM EDT (link)We need to support him and keep Martinez’s seat in Republican hands. Second we need to keep the governor’s seat in our party. This is where Marco Rubio with his intelligence, experience, and fire should run. He could waltz into the governor’s mansion and then finally get rid of that intellectual lightweight Bill Nelson.once and for all. He is young. Let him become the youngest governor in the nation.
Jack
“If at age 20 you are conservative you have no heart. It at age 30 you are liberal you have no brains.” Sir Winston Churchill
well I am not a Floridian
kyle8 Wednesday, May 13th at 6:17PM EDT (link)but i disagree with you. We would be better off without another liberal republican screwing us over and destroying our brand.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
the reality is...
Jack Wednesday, May 13th at 6:47PM EDT (link)Crist is a sitting governor with a Statewide organization and high favorable name ID. He can dismantle Rubio in the primary or Rubio can leave Crist so bloodied he cannot win.
He is the sitting governor when he makes a move to run for higher office the others move out of the way. That is life in politics. He is going to run for senate. That is a given. So we lose both? We lose a Senate seat and a governor’s mansion because you don’t like Crist?
He is going to run he will not be dissuaded by you or anyone else on this blog. So the reality is we need to set the stage for the bigger win. We can take both or lose both, but Charlie Crist is running for the senate so do we win or just show ourselves for being fools and falling on our swords on a purity test that 100 years from now will not amount to a hill of beans? Do you want the Repulicans to be in the majority in the House and Senate or do you wish to lose and be in a permanent minority? Your choice. I will back Crist and I hope Rubio runs for governor and we keep both.
Jack
“If at age 20 you are conservative you have no heart. It at age 30 you are liberal you have no brains.” Sir Winston Churchill
Why not back the GOOD choice in the primaries at least?
randy streu Wednesday, May 13th at 6:50PM EDT (link)I’m not getting your logic, if it’s there.
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if we want to know...
Jack Wednesday, May 13th at 6:56PM EDT (link)why we are a minority party just look to you.
Jack
“If at age 20 you are conservative you have no heart. It at age 30 you are liberal you have no brains.” Sir Winston Churchill
Oh, good. I was thinking the "cheerios" thing was going to be the dumbest thing I've read all day.
randy streu Wednesday, May 13th at 6:58PM EDT (link)But really, please explain. I’m curious.
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before you bother to go on....
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 7:24PM EDT (link)I’ll just let you know all these things have been thrown back and forth and some are more than happy to let the Democrats keep their Majority: all that at yeasterdays discussion here
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Given where you posted this, I do hope that comment isnt being tossed in my direction, JLenard...
randy streu Wednesday, May 13th at 8:06PM EDT (link)Not only is Jack evidently dead wrong about WHY Republicans are a “minority” party at this juncture (I’m assuming of course, since he hasn’t bothered to back up his idiotic statement), but I don’t think ANYONE here is “happy to the let the Democrats keep their majority.”
The disagreement is in HOW to take it back. And if we should have learned ANYTHING from McCain’s disaster of a campaign it is that we don’t gain the majority back by acting like our opponants — and there isn’t much point of gaining that majority back if we do.
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nope, general comment
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 8:19PM EDT (link)but if the shoe don’t fit, why put it on and parade around in it
lol
I prefer Crist stay where he is and that more Conservative candidates in these States where they can/would win, IMHO. Like with Toomey in PA, IMO. Very possibly with Rubio in FL, but I understand (and I guess that pisses people off the most that I can see both sides) how/why the well positioned Crist would be somes first (not mine) choice (but I’ll state CLEARLY again, I will support him in the General IF he is the candidate).
again, in general… just sayin’ ’bout some (not naming names or pointing fingers, up to each person to decide themselves - and you can determine for yourself if my next analogy applies to ME from your perspective
Sometimes you just have to let people Fall… No matter how hard you try to get them to take just that one step, they won’t. Despite the ground crumbling under them, you just have to walk away from the failing ground, and let them fall off the Cliff. Let them be happy they stood on their Principle to their death.
That’s a long-form way of saying, you just have to decide to disagree and move on
lol
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I'm big on context; that's why I asked.
randy streu Wednesday, May 13th at 8:28PM EDT (link)In general, I agree. But if we want to advance Conservatism, we need to support CONSERVATIVE candidates. voting for pretenders in the primary is not a good strategy.
The only thing that makes Crist a Republican is the (R) by his name. I can understand maybe supporting him if we WINS the primary. But during the primary? Sorry… anyone who would do that when a perfeclty GOOD Conservative candidate is there is NOT making an intelligent choice, or else is not a Conservative.
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just one quibble, but I think you understand
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 8:51PM EDT (link)… but before that…. I think some miss the part that just because I can understand and parse the discussion, does NOT mean that I advocate the position I am helping to clarify - just that I want the full discussion framed and people to make up their own minds……
minor quibble?….. A third option….. that many DO NOT see the Crist thing as squish promotion (and I’m still not convinced he would not be sufficiently loyal to the Rep.Party Platform ideals [though I agree, there is PLENTY to give us pause/concern/question whether he will) and be a Red-Dog or another RINO. That some see him as just the best positioned and that he already has the war-chest - some see it as a question of opportunity/money!!!! I can APPRECIATE that standpoint though I do not LIKE it.
I DO ADVOCATE: More Conservative candidates in Red or Purple zones/areas/Districts/etc…. first and foremost — I am willing, however (and unlike some - just willing to be up front about it either way) to back him IF (and alot of folks overlook the IFs in these conversations) he lands up being the General Election candidate.
Again, if some want to have the staring contest with the Left-Republicans, that is fine - just be honest up front about it… and be willing to acknowledge that that strategy may very well mean WE ALL LOSE.
That’s all - I want people to say they are willing to let the Party lose and therefore concede/surrender Elections to Democrats if their FIRST CHOICE candidate isn’t the one in the General Election. I respect direct honesty…. I think there are some that won’t admit some of these things to themselves, and therefore cannot acknowledge even the possibility to others. I think you get me.
Things can be taken the wrong way and I appreciate your “CONTEXT” point - It is ground I cover in the be respectful Diary. We have to stop being so touchy and quick to take things personally - THAT APPLIES TO ALL OF US - we are all entitled to have a bad day and not even recognize we are having it!!!!
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I think, in general, we agree.
randy streu Wednesday, May 13th at 9:03PM EDT (link)Which is pretty standard.
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OK...I acknowledge it...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:33AM EDT (link)Your premise is false because it assumes we can have Crist in Florida and win in the end…some of us believe it’s a lose/lose from the start because if he wins he not only advances the agenda we’re desperately trying to stop while helping to verify what to many people already think, that being there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats!
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So...whose ground is crumbling beneath their feet? The Conservatives who've had their principles trampled...or the establishment who've lost two elections in a row running away from any principles at all? nt
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:27AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
If the issue is winning back the majority to enact the Democrat agenda...then yeah...let the Dem's keep the majority...I choose to fight instead of surrender! nt
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:23AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
heh...so it's our fault and has nothing to do with the leadership we have who sold us down the river
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:21AM EDT (link)and spent like Democrats?
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
How about keeping the National apparatus out of the primaries
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:19AM EDT (link)That’s what’s at issue here…if Crist wants to run against Rubio…fine…but the NRSC has no business endorsing anyone in an OPEN frigging primary for Pete’s sake!
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Or in any primary.
randy streu Thursday, May 14th at 9:25AM EDT (link)this is really bad form on the part of the NRSC.
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"Purity test?"
Martin Knight Wednesday, May 13th at 6:57PM EDT (link)We have a supposed Republican intending to go to Washington DC in order to give the veneer of “Bipartisan” support to the agenda of the most Left-Wing President America has ever, and you’re thinking our objecting is a “purity test”?
Are you really this stupid?
Newsflash: A political party is not a sports team, Congressmen are elected to enact policy, not just to wrack up higher numbers of themselves on Election Day.
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it.
- Margaret Thatcher
NOTE: “consensus” = “Bipartisanship™”/”Centrism™”
You are just not getting it at all Jack
kyle8 Wednesday, May 13th at 6:57PM EDT (link)Do I want the republican party to remain a minority party? You are the one with a sure fire plan to make that happen. Supporting these liberal snakes for the few seats they give us is the disaster that got us into this mess.
Don’t you see, they attack their own party at every turn, they give cover to liberal policies, they wield power and influence out of all proportion to their numbers because we are always having to bribe them into acting with the party. And they muddy the waters giving conservatism the blame for the failure of liberal policies.
You are just wrong wrong wrong on this. Crist is poison and he should be opposed in the primary and the general election.
If this were a military operation I am sure you would be OK with giving command to known enemy agents. It is madness.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
I don't live in Florida
Leopard1996 Wednesday, May 13th at 7:11PM EDT (link)And I consider myself more of a Fiscal and National Security conservative, where as far as the social issues, you aren’t going to win my vote either way, but if Crist is the guy that is going to be kneeling at the altar of Obama for the stimulus package, he will definitely be the one sucking at the tit of Harry Reid to get the bacon brought home to Florida at the expense of the country as a whole. That is something that the Republican party can’t afford. If I am in Florida and see that Crist will suck at the teat of Reid 60% of the time and whoever is the democrat is will definitely be sucking at the tit of Reid 100% of the time to get the pork for the state, and I don’t care about the rest of the country, I am going to vote for the Dem. This debate needs to be had, but the NRSC and the RMSP needs to stay the hell out of it and let the Republicans of Florida decide.
“The accumluated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen
Be Fair, Jack May Be On To Something...
rcov092 Wednesday, May 13th at 7:22PM EDT (link)electing Crist will replace SPECTRE….NSRC epic fail. When will these guys take there heads out of the focus groups and start to think about what people value. No, it turns out it is not:
earmarks
voting to support climate change that is not occurring
trading off principle for expediency.
Cornyn, fail, McConnell epic fail (again and again) Lindsay Graham (Epic failure) John McCain epic fail again.
“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”
Join the RedState Strike Force
It's not that we don't like Crist DAXX it it's that we don't like Obama and what he's doing to this country
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:17AM EDT (link)and Crist campaigned for Obama’s porkulous package, plays racial politics as Erick points out here, and is rabidly anti SoCon…What does he have to offer in the Senate except one more reliable vote for the old guard in the Senate who would rather appease Obama than oppose him!
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Why support a Republican who would vote with Democrats on both Social and Fiscal issues?
Martin Knight Wednesday, May 13th at 6:43PM EDT (link)Doesn’t that kinda defeat the purpose? I mean, Crist is no social conservative and is certainly no fiscal conservative, so what else would he be except yet another vote for Obama’s agenda?
Worse, because he’ll be wearing the ‘R’ the Obama Administration and its Press arms would be able to claim that Obama’s agenda has “Bipartisan” support!
PS: Are you 30 yet?
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it.
- Margaret Thatcher
NOTE: “consensus” = “Bipartisanship™”/”Centrism™”
that is what I have been trying to say. It is as though a bunch of imposter's
kyle8 Wednesday, May 13th at 6:49PM EDT (link)are dressing up nice and going to church while you know that they are really satanists. But since they SAY they are part of your denomination they you support them.
It really defies all logic. There is NO VALUE in possessing a few extra seats in congress if they are held by vipers and assassins.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Just read your profile, Jack
Neil Stevens Wednesday, May 13th at 8:12PM EDT (link)Do you really intend to imply that people to your right don’t think and just make ‘knee-jerk reactions’ to issues?
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
not sure how you read that Neil
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 8:31PM EDT (link)Seemed clear he was saying there is room for that on both sides of him…. and I don’t disagree with that….. happens at either/both sides at times.
Is everyone purposefully looking to have their feathers ruffled today?
I’m not here to defend him or anyone, just noted to him above that we’d been through it all yesterday. Both sides (for many, not all of us of course) are willing to let the other side FAIL in a giant staring contest… and we all LOSE/FAIL in the process… IMO
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
You know JLenard...
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, May 13th at 8:40PM EDT (link)I like you I really do but do you even recognize that you are the like the middle child always trying to keep the peace while getting noticed for your beliefs? I have thought that since your diary last week but I thought nah I won’t say it….but you sooo are dude….you have brilliant arguments and I personally think you should get into it instead of always trying to see it both ways and make everyone happy….I would say to you THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND and to hell with everybody else and just state YOUR CASE and your Conservative beliefs and when others start to duke it out let them
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
lol Jaded, nope Oldest (favored ;-) ) child
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 9:06PM EDT (link)I have served on plenty of committees that I have had to settle disputes though
Regards from NoMoTown (Liberals, looking to do FOR? America what they’ve DONE TO! Detroit and Michigan)
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
oh, and would like to aim the nastiness and energy against the Democrats for a change (nt)
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 9:08PM EDT (link)(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Yes we need to aim our nastiness at the Democrats however...
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, May 13th at 9:11PM EDT (link)when we have snakes in the plane we need to throw them out into space as well!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
drats, I passed a chance to give you a hard time :P
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 9:23PM EDT (link)guess it’s all that Social Psychology stuff that rattles around my brain
and darn it… just realized I could have, and should have, had some fun feigning outrage at your belittling me…. Some “How Dar You’s” and stuff - lol Only to put a WARNING:KIDDING at the end…. shouldn’t let everyone else have all the fun venting at my expense
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
No dear I wasn't belittling you at all just making....
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, May 13th at 9:47PM EDT (link)an observation from following your diary and your comments over the past week….might I suggest you throw the psychology out the window and just go with the flow!!!!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
and I was just teasing you
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 9:56PM EDT (link)Everyone is so touchy today lol
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Jaded...I think he's playing at being conservative trying to see it both ways...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:43AM EDT (link)yet when you read his posts they always end with the same conclusion…we’re all wrong for opposing Crist!
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thats ok I got plenty of nastiness to go around
kyle8 Wednesday, May 13th at 9:25PM EDT (link)and plenty more where that came from.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
I read him the same way Neil does -- here's why:
randy streu Wednesday, May 13th at 8:42PM EDT (link)I asked him why it’s not a good idea to vote for the GOOD candidate in the primary (read: the CONSERVATIVE candidate). His response:
“You’re the reason Republicans are still a minority party.”
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well, he did say he's a Moderate (more or less)
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 9:16PM EDT (link)Hope he’s a Red-Dog and not a RINO
lol
I think he jumped directly to that “Staring contest” thing I was talking about. Anyone wanting to stand their ground come hell or high water, that is fine, as long as they are truthful (or do they just fool/lie-to themselves) about the potential consequences of it.
Do we agree there can be some knee-jerky folks on both sides? (Certainly, most of them - actually about all Democrats - on the Left are that way - it makes life easy for them - Like I say: Esteem Over Substance in Schools breeds Style Over Substance afterwards) Or is someone really going to insist there are NO Republicans/Conservatives that way?
Again, this is general discussion… we aren’t pointing fingers… just trying to get some admissions/acknowledgements.
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
He passes his tax increase and the NRSC can spend all...
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, May 13th at 9:21PM EDT (link)the money they want he will lose in the primary I personally will be donating to his opponent!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
got a link? Crist is pushing a Tax increase right now?
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 9:30PM EDT (link)What a moron if he is…. Is he looking to find straws to pile on the Camel’s back right now? Should have no problem beating him in the Primary then, shouldn’t it?
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
So JLenard I guess you are not reading all the Redstate frontpage stories....heh...
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, May 13th at 9:35PM EDT (link)http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/05/13/not-one-dime-to-the-nrsc/
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
why, they are generally a repeat of other things ;-)
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 9:45PM EDT (link)there is alot of things that go unread, by anyone/everyone - would be nice to have the time to read it all. I’ll check it out, but it is pretty much a re-hash of all the things we’re covering here and yesterday in Dan’s (I think it’s Dans) that I linked to above….. At least it looks like we covered most of this….
I expected an actual link to a news-story, but will look in there to see if there is one.
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Crist and taxes - Cigarette Increase recent Property Tax Cut
JLenardDetroit Thursday, May 14th at 12:48AM EDT (link)(sptimes) 2007, Crist Property Tax Cuts opposed, of course, by Democrats on behalf of the Teachers Unions worried they won’t be able to continue to inflate their wages/pension…. Did this ever go through??? —- I found something later, as it sounds like some (Crist included) were trying to TAX-SHIFT, much like we did in MI under staunchly Conservative Republican Governor John Engler while we had Republican control in MI and got it on the ballot for a Constitutional Amendment to Increase Sales-Taxes (that would raise more on the backs of others coming into the State) while Lowering Property Taxes (and more importantly) and CAPPING them to a maximum rate of increase (re-adjusted to Value upon a Home Sale). Helping to keep people in their homes and their Taxes low 2008 passed by Ballot initiative like ours was, but I didn’t see anything about an offsetting Increase, just that they managed a Cut. Found sptimes: Spending and further Tax Cuts protesters Was that Tea-Party?
We tend to forget any Cut the minute any increase comes up…..
2009: Are you talking about the Ocala: Tobacco taxes will increase and also saw newscom: FFL Cigarette Tax Increase (up $1.34/pack from $0.34/pack) Seems he stuck his finger in the air on this and deemed it popular enough to not cost him alot of votes, with the usual “It’s for the Children” lines. Sun-Sentinel: Cig Tax - pushed by Rep Legislature Makes it sound like there is more than just Crist that is a problem for Conservatives in FL!?!? I was/am amazed that ANY State would have such a low Cig tax .34/pack, I see why they feel they can get away with the increase compared to taxes in other States, of course, just cause other States have a higher tax isn’t a good reason to raise your own. Here I thought you were talking about a General Income Tax, Corporate Tax, or some other Tax Increase. It is unfortunate but Cig tax increases hardly raise an eye-brow nowadays.
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Fun Fact:
scarlos Thursday, May 14th at 5:34AM EDT (link)Marco Rubio was the person who initially championed the 2007 property tax overhaul:
“During 2007, Marco Rubio, championed a major overhaul of the Florida tax system. He wanted to reduce property taxes and decrease the size of government. While his effort stalled, it created enough debate within the Florida Legislature to pass a more modest plan supported by Governor Charlie Crist.”
How can anyone be surprised when an ideology that regards wealth as a cardinal sin cannot produce it?
A liberal is a person who thinks there is no problem that cannot be solved by consolidating more power in their own hands
What in hXXX's half acre is a Red Dog anyway? A Blue Dog is a Democrat the votes withy Republicans...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 9:45AM EDT (link)Is a Red Dog a Republican that votes with the Democrats and what’s the difference between a Red Dog Republican and a RINO?
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JLenard wrote a diary description of Red Dog
pilgrim Thursday, May 14th at 10:12AM EDT (link)http://www.redstate.com/jlenarddetroit/2009/04/28/red-dog-republicans/
It is a great advantage to a president, and a major source of safety to the country, for him to know that he is not a great man.Calvin Coolidge
Wrong definition of a Blue Dog.
Vladimir Thursday, May 14th at 10:33AM EDT (link)A Blue Dog is a sick little puppy on a short leash.
They are allowed to embrace a “conservative” stance on some issue like the Second Amendment, or Abortion, or Energy if it’s important enough to their constituency that a “mainstream” Democrat position would kill them at the ballot box. (A mainstream Dem these days is a Code Pink nutjob.)
They get thrown a bone from time to time, an occasional high profile vote, only if their votes don’t really matter.
When they do matter, they are in lockstep with Pelosi, Reid et al.
So really, “Blue Dog” is all about branding.
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Blue Dog is a Democrat lying to get elected in a Republican district.
Achance Thursday, May 14th at 10:59AM EDT (link)See, e.g., Begich, Mark (Democrat - Alaska) The Boy Senator will tell you all about how he supports the 2nd Am. and wants ANWR developed because he knows if he didn’t say that, Ted Stevens would still be the Senator no matter what. ‘Course that doens’t mean he’s going to actually DO anything to protect gun rights or to open ANWR.
In Vino Veritas
Ok...so how is a Red Dog not a RINO if he's like that with Republicans....I really don't see the distinction
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 11:12AM EDT (link)you just described every RINO out there. and can anyone give an example of who is currently in the House and Senate who qualifies as a Red Dog since the caucuses in both houses don’t hold any Republican to any standard on any vote?
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"Red Dog" is a saloon in Juneau to me; it's not my term.
Achance Thursday, May 14th at 11:32AM EDT (link)I’m on record with saying the issue is one of caucus discipline; a person must vote with the caucus on leadership, procedure, and budget or they lose their committees and ultimately their membership in the caucus if necessary.
I don’t buy some ideological litmus test to call oneself a Republican or even to be leadership. What gets somebody elected from a farming district in The South won’t get you elected dogcatcher in New England, the West Coast, or any large city. Some here seem to prefer an ideologically pure permanent minority; I think that’s NUTS!
We’re on the verge of becoming the kulaks in this communist revolution as it is. Why not just make it official and make ourselves politically irrelevant?
In Vino Veritas
I'm with you here at least...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 11:54AM EDT (link)The ideological purity meme is way over used though. I’d support Crist in California or NY of Mass…but I don’t want the Party forcing liberal candidates on us in purple states during an open primary whether they have a big war chest and high approval ratings or not.
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See, I don't think FL is that different from CA or NY,
Achance Thursday, May 14th at 2:59PM EDT (link)demographically, it is becoming more and more the people who are dependent on government, e.g., SS retirees who sold their house in Yankeedom, bought a mobile home in FL for cash and now hope to keep their old car and live out their days on SS. Then it has all the minority population. Northern FL is Southern GA or AL, but the rest is just another American McState.
In Vino Veritas
What about standing for a principle and convincing others we are right based on facts...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 3:22PM EDT (link)why the preemptive surrender?
How much damage would have been done if Brigadier General McAuliffe hadn’t told the Germans “Nuts when the demanded a surrender at Bastogne during the battle of the bulge?
What if he decided the cause was lost and instead of supporting his officers and troops, he decided to promote the Americanized German Spies the Nazis had used to confuse the Americans by switching road signs and creating general havoc to an organized retreat because the Germans were going to win and we need to promote people who agree with the Germans so we can take back control?
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Ace, don't lecture me on either courage or history.
Achance Thursday, May 14th at 3:38PM EDT (link)I know I know history better than you and I’m reasonably certain that I have more experience with political courage in places other than behind a keyboard.
Go to the next precinct meeting, district meeting, state convention, whatever, and do something. Yammering and insulting people here accomplishes exactly NOTHING except alienating people who should be finding a way to to work together.
In Vino Veritas
No body's lecturing you on anything Achance...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 4:05PM EDT (link)I thought we were engaged in a back and forth debating whether supporting Crist is a winner for the party.
I didn’t realize not going along to get along with you was insulting you and really don’t know what I said in our exchange that would justify the above but whatever it was I’m sorry.
As for your experience as a politician, I won’t argue with you there, you’ve obviously got me on that. I’ve never been in the positions you’ve been in because I don’t have it in me to kiss people’s rings and hold my tongue when I think they’re full of crap. It takes a special person with extreme self control to do what you’ve done and I aint it…so my hat is off to you,
As for whether you know more about history than me is entirely beside the point. The arrogance of that statement is surpassed only by the utter ignorance you exhibit in making the statement in the first place since you don’t know me and couldn’t possibly know what I do and don’t know!
As for lecturing you about History…again there was no lecture involved nor was that my intent…I simply drew a comparison or an analogy or whatever you want to call it and welcome hearing your refutation of the analogy and I also wait with baited breath at your feet to hear your wisdom and obviously superior intellect on the historical aspects I described and where the great God of the north thinks your humble servant strayed from the historical record!
That said…I’ll leave it at that because I don’t want to inadvertently insult you on some obscure point issue that you happen to be touchy about at the moment!
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I never said anything about surrendering or
Achance Friday, May 15th at 8:15AM EDT (link)backing Crist or supporting socialized medicine, and I got a lecture on Bastogne and fighting to the last man and the last bullet. I actually don’t think the Party should intervene in a primary except possibly to support an incumbent. I really don’t think it is much the business of anyone in TX or AK who the Republican voters of FL nominate to carry their banner. It should be evident to everyone here how much I didn’t appreciate their feelings about Senator Stevens. The only other exception might, just might, be in states with an open primary where the Democrats could work mischief and in fact select the Republican nominee. The ideal solution there is to close the primary, something the Party can do and which is backed by black letter law - for the moment.
In Vino Veritas
Sorry I wasn't clearer about what I was saying because that wasn't necessarily directed at you but at the prevailing attitude of this party right now.
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 10:19AM EDT (link)We as a party are surrendering without a fight…there is no thought to staking out a point and persuading anyone to the point of it…it’s the knee jerk reaction to people in power to cave on every issue at the first sign of resistance that has my panties in a wad.
Everyone keeps saying we need to moderate and run Crists and Snowes and Specters and Collinses and McCains and Grahams to win elections when there is not only no proof the strategy has worked for us, but there is no way for us to prove the opposite since the powers that be won’t let us run our candidates.
On that last, I’d say we already have proof based on the history of the last 28 years but we’re being told now we need to leave Regan and the 1994 revolution behind for a new message!
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I also clarified what I was saying to you below for Civ...nt
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 10:20AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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Then become one of the "powers that be."
Achance Friday, May 15th at 11:01AM EDT (link)Anybody willing to work and not make a PITA of themselves can work their way
up Party organization to the District level. State committees take some politicking on your part and in some states are pretty much “invitation only.” Those invitation only states are a problem and are representative of what I was talking about in a post the other day in which I said we were very much a “who you know” party lacking in precinct up organization except for GOTV.
In Vino Veritas
Now we can talk because I've been working on that very thing...
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 11:21AM EDT (link)I’m currently at that invitation only level…it’s not as formal a you make it sound in Texas…but it’s cliquish and you have to break into a clique to advance…the powers that be have to put you in place and the cliques are all from the appeasement crowd and Conservatives can’t advance…that’s what is so mind numbingly infuriating to me when you and Neil tell me to get involved because I am…and work my way up which I’m trying to do and can’t!
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and just as Americans go majority pro-life, we are supposed to moderate? - LINK
Mike gamecock DeVine Friday, May 15th at 11:03AM EDT (link)http://digg.com/d1rIR0
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Good point...I was thinking about blogging on that poll but have an appointment with a Commercial Client so it will have to wait if I do it at all...nt
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 11:23AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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Please, save your fire for someone else
civil_truth Thursday, May 14th at 3:49PM EDT (link)I see a good faith difference in opinion as to whether FL is in a camp with CA and MA, not an advocacy of surrender - especially since Art has consistently called for caucus discipline.
Whereas those who are moderates or want to kow tow to moderates almost uniformly reject the idea of exerting discipline.
And Rightly So!
I didn't say Art didn't have courage and didn't mean to imply that at all
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 4:13PM EDT (link)I’ve acknowledged his courage and my desire to learn from him. And I also praised his call for party discipline above. My analogy wasn’t aimed at him personally, it’s aimed at the idea that we have to stop standing for anything and advance the agenda of the enemy rather than stand our ground, fight for our issues and work at bringing about a victory if not today then at some point in the future.
If my statement communicated anything but that then I apologize to you and him for the mis-communication because I don’t, or at least didn’t mean to get personal with anyone, least of all Art because as much as we butt heads here, I enjoy and value the back and forth I have with him..
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Let me clarify the point further...it has nothing to do with courage...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 6:04PM EDT (link)It has to do with the insistence on the party that we surrender the battle before we’ve even had a chance to take the field! We don’t even try to convince anyone that socialized medicine is a bad idea like we did in 1994…we just decide it’s going to happen anyway so we have Republican Health Care plans all over the place because if we’re gonna have it anyway…we want our nationalized health care. There isn’t any effort or attempt to stand up and say stop…we just roll over…
Where Crist and Toomey is concerned, we have the party preemptively deciding that a Conservative can’t win without any evidence to the contrary and going to work overtime to defeat Conservatives in a primary or so knee cap them that they can’t win thereby proving their self fulfilling prophecy!
The reference to Bastogne was to point out that the 101st chose to fight a battle that many believed was lost and enabled Patton to ride to the rescue and kill or capture over 100,00 Germans and destroy most of the tanks and planes the Germans committed to their offensive…had they decided to surrender…I’m almost positive the Germans would have reached their objectives and they would have extended the war in the west considerably. by standing firm and making the fight the Germans not only didn’t reach their objectives because they had to commit considerable resources to the siege of Bastogne but they lost considerable resources in the fight which weakened them in the fight for the Rhine…
It’s the results of the decision to fight as opposed to the consequences of surrender that I was pointing out not calling anyone’s courage into question!
Of course, what do I know…I don’t know anything about history and I’ve never been a Precinct Chair, A District Convention Credentials committee member, District Delegate or State Convention Delegate..All Y want to do is yammer and insult everyone!
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yeah well I got news for you
kyle8 Thursday, May 14th at 3:27PM EDT (link)so is all the rest of the country moving that way, so we better start making converts to conservatism or we will be outnumbered everywhere.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Those are significant factors that caused me to initially lean toward favoring the "electable" Crist, but
Mike gamecock DeVine Thursday, May 14th at 3:42PM EDT (link)I have been persuaded that we should back Rubio in the primary.
I am not averse to realism to get more repubs in the elected caucus, but think that given the far left ObamaDems and deep recession that we should benefit from a better than normal backlash in 2010 and that if we can’t sell conservatism then, then we are lost anyway.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
reasonable analysis
JLenardDetroit Thursday, May 14th at 4:00PM EDT (link)I have always been on record as preferring the more Conservative candidate for a Primary (some location based exceptions) and this seems to come down to the same discussion as PA as to whether we think FL is Purple leaning Red or Purple heavily trending Blue (in part I think it depends on how successful the Democrats are in suppressing the Military vote).
There are honest differences in strategy, but some want to impose a RSPC Rule on the topic as seen over the last couple of days rather than discuss it.
The big concern is Crist and taxes [includes press-links] and his willingness to beg for Stimulus! Neither makes me happy, but Republican Minority doesn’t either. I will support whomever comes out of the Primary, and have the usual concerns as to how badly they Cannibalise each other in the process (Reagan’s 11th is dead).
I’m still waiting to hear who people think the Democrat nominee will be - it does matter in the way I will look at this Election!
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
You keep over simpifying the issue...We keep trying to flesh it out but you want to boil it down to one issue!
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 4:21PM EDT (link)Crist is at best a one legged stool Republican. He’s anti SoCon and he’s for big government, big spending fiscal liberalism…It has nothing to do with strategy or ideological purity…his not even on the same page with 2/3s of the party from an ideological perspective!
With all that said…and those facts taken into account…it’s about the party backing him at all let alone in a marginally purple state much less a purple leaning red state.
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and I keep seeing one issue Since NatlGOPers back him, we cannot
JLenardDetroit Thursday, May 14th at 5:12PM EDT (link)Advance warning: none of this is aimed at any particular individual(s), just speaking in general…..
1. Natl-GOPers support so we CANNOT…. that is the gist and juxtaposition of most of the Diaries (dozens) the last couple of days…. and we all keep repeating the same discussions and points of view in all of them….. A repeat it to make it so (RSPC) strategy is employed on this….
2. We all agree we’d prefer the Natl Committees stay out of the Primaries, but many fail to recognize that the Primaries are a building-block and can/do (often) create a momentum to carry into the General Election that you hope increased your Name-recognition if you needed it and/or your Positives over your Negatives before the Democrats begin attacking….. It would be great if Rubio was the clear candidate and the Natl.Committees help to fund, support, etc… him as he needs the boost for Name-recognition and that momentum push, IMO. Crist, does not, and that bothers people - understandably!!!! They want to win the seat, it is a difference of opinion on the best way to go about it that many will not acknowledge or want to openly discuss.
3. I ask about the Taxes, and get no responses: Again, what is this “Tax On Working Families” (Crist and taxes [includes press-links]) please, I want to be informed if there is something I’m missing….
3B. And beyond that how many around here had supported Mitt, Mike, or Rudy willing to over-look the Tax Raiser label because they had “special circumstances and/or because they had to work in Blue-legislatures) — I’ll raise my hand to that one (again, goes back to honestly admitting to things), I was willing to cut them some slack depending on the how, where, when, why they CAVED on the Tax Issue — and it was/is CAVING in regard to the Conservative NO NEW TAXES and WE MUST LOWER TAXES positions.
4. The other line of discussion is that sit elections out… seems some are preemptive setting up reasons/excuses to sit out the election IF (again, IF) Crist is the General Election candidate, and not willing to acknowledge that they MAY give the seat to the Democrats in doing so. (I at least respect kyle8 for admitting it elsewhere)….
5. I had previously heard plenty of complaints about Jeb Bush not pushing enough, now that he is on that listening-tour some are on his band-wagon.
6. (along the lines of 5, in reverse) Many were MORE THAN HAPPY to have Crist as Governor…. Some, granted, may have been lukewarm supporters, but now all of a sudden they have become all out Crist HATERS. (kinda relates in with 3B, IMO, as the reasons why - he isn’t getting any slack).
7. CRIST WOULD NOT BE MY FIRST CHOICE (other than my willingness to entertain the notion he’d be a calk-walk to the Senate argument some want to make), but because I am willing to give him some slack, I do NOT get any
8. Self-fulfilling prophecy about him going to be a RINO…. SINCE…..
8a. Conservatives are all out assaulting Crist and don’t want him
8b. Conservatives will stay home and not vote for him (General)
8c. Double-Standard - If he wins and goes to Senate WE CONSERVATIVES will be demanding that he be a RED-DOG not a RINO, and that he uphold Conservative values/principles of the GOP-Platform — Is loyalty a 2-way street or isn’t it?!?!?
8d. Some will act shocked and surprised that he decides, hmmmm, they didn’t support me so screw-em
—– Given all that —– I am NOT saying Crist be 100% enthusiastically supported for the Primary - Rubio deserves the Conservative support but Crist should not complete disdain if we expect him to bother to even entertain listening to us.
9. I Hope and Pray Rubio can provide enough reasons without having to resort to Republican Cannibalism (Reagan’s 11th, at least being somewhat reasonable to each other would be nice) to pull enough non-Conservatives so as to win the General Election. I am just being honest that I have SOME doubts at this point, and some want to bite my head off for being willing to discuss these things.
10. We have (D)-CINOs, PLINOs, and Blue-Dogs (CINOs) to overcome once we get more House/Senators elected. Do we agree we will have to have some give-and-take for Blue/Purple areas to get to a Majority…… And then that shakes down to whether FL is a more Reddish-Purple or getting more and more Bluish-Purple…. Again, some refuse to have the discussion and how it does or does not matter in determining who should be the General Election candidate.
All different sub-issues, NOT ONE!
WARNING: Again, all general thoughts….. it is up to each reader to determine if the shoe fits….. If anyone insists that the Shoe don’t fit, then don’t put it on and parade around in it!
I have on more than one occasion pointed out multiple separate numerated items, but I’m the one being sole-focused… I think not
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
11. Someone else may enter the race? ...12....
JLenardDetroit Thursday, May 14th at 5:43PM EDT (link)11. SO WE CAN HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FL SENATOR: It is still early enough that someone else can be persuaded, or may on their own, to enter the race — What about that? — What are the chances? Who is the MOST prominent Conservative in the State that could be (and maybe should be, as many acknowledge Rubio is young up and comer, he has time) that would have enough Credentials and Name-recognition to take on Crist and more importantly be able to have the Street-Cred and Support going into the General Election…. Does this HAVE to be our only 2 choices?!?!?!
12. Crist remaining as Governor and using his popularity to campaign for a more Conservative candidate (everyones first choice)… This one has been tossed about… most (if not all RSers) would prefer to see Crist stay in the post he has not been in long (but again, if you didn’t see it elsewhere - double-standard arises - we were willing to give Palin a pass on the not-been-in-job-long thing!!!)… Or is it way too late for this to be an option now because the Train has long left the station for the Senate campaign trail???? I know the point of many early Diaries would be to try and pressure him NOT to run for Senate but to stay in the Governors House…. Is that at all realistic now???? Trouble goes back to if Crist and his backers think he is the only one that will win that seat there is no way we’ll talk him out of it!
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
a sort of OT quibble...
mbecker908 Friday, May 15th at 8:48AM EDT (link)3B. And beyond that how many around here had supported Mitt, Mike, or Rudy…
Huge strawman. First of all, the only one of those who even came close to “getting a pass” on raising taxes was Mitt and he got a pass on pretty much everything.
As a veteran of the MikeWars there were a few dedicated souls who were in the bag for him regardless, but they pretty much refused to deal with the tax issues because they got beaten bloody so many times. You can only watch Huckabee plead for any kind of tax increase and then go on TV and outright lie about it before you give up. And they eventually gave up and a good number of them (Ace in particular) converted.
As far as Rudy is concerned, he cut taxes in NYC. Crime went down, business went up and the number of abortions went down. On the facts of their governance, a good argument can be made that Rudy was THE conservative candidate.
I wouldn't say I converted since I wasn't enthusiastic in the first place.
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 11:37AM EDT (link)I put up a hardy defense, particularly with Romney supporters whom I saw as Hypocrites for attacking Huck for the very things Romney was guilty of…but I wasn’t a fan of any single one of them from the start.
I was briefly hopeful when Fred showed up but he either didn’t want it…or appeared to much like he didn’t want it and I fell back on what I considered to be the lesser of 7 evils.
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the "3b" Charlie as Mitt,Mike,Rudy / Taxes and Natl. Politics
JLenardDetroit Friday, May 15th at 2:53PM EDT (link)Thanks Ace/Mbecker….. The only people who are forced to try and change the focus from that sub-topic are those that have to try and dismiss it (out-of-hand) because they are in-part guilty of the double-standard, won’t/can’t admit to it and have to fool themselves with the usual “but it’s different” line….
I forgave Rudy more than I did Mitt whom I forgave a bit more than Mike, all because of simple analysis of each situation, what/where/who they were up against (individual specifics and timing), the particular taxes involved, how much, etc….. I WOULD BE A HYPOCRITE if I did NOT give Crist some degree of slack - as he has worked (since ACE mentioned Rudy and what “else” he also did) for the Property Tax Cuts ((Crist and taxes [includes press-links]) like we did in MI under staunchly Conservative Gov. John Engler, also ultimately achieved by ballot initiative, as many other States have also gone on to do. It is the SUM TOTAL of the overall picture.
While I’m NO FAN of raising any Taxes, I keep seeing/hearing about “Raising Taxes on WORKING Families” and I wonder if that is just the easy TACTIC of distorting the (not entirely, of course, but trying to “suggest” it is something beyond what it is - certainly working people will be hit by a) Cigarette Tax!?!?! Many have been forgiven over that one, again depending on circumstances and perhaps how LARGE the increase was (and again, see: Crist and taxes [includes press-links]) *OR* someone needs to fill us in on what specifically this TAX is if it isn’t the Cig-Tax!?!?!
I am just out to help insure people have their best arguments…. If on behalf of Rubio RSers cannot put a convincing argument forth to fellow RedStaters - how is any AVERAGE FL VOTER supposed to be persuaded????? above beyond the “but he’s Conservative….” … It’s like I’m listening to Spinal Tap “but this one goes to Eleven…..” …… “but he’s Conservative….” coupled with $5 will get us a Starbucks BUT WILL IT GET US A GENERAL ELECTION WIN?
….”but the NRSC…..” …. and I put forth the 12 points and I hear nothing but Chirping Birds and Crickets, the Paint from the neighbors house drying, the backyard grass growing, etc….. (with the exception of you mbecker, I appreciate you chiming in on the 12 points, well… at least #3) Again, the average FL Voter isn’t going to respond to the “but he’s Conservative….” or the “but Crist is backed by the NRSC…..” followed by nothing of substance/merit to back up with details how that relates to the General Election Campaign Issue questions they will want answered.
You guys know you don’t really need to do too much to CONVINCE ME! Nor do you have to really convince me, because in the long run you know I’m gonna be their with you (more or less, it upsets folks that I will entertain Crist based on overall “what will win the seat and put it in the R column” which is different from what we ALL absolutely agree needs to happen “we need more high % Conservatives in DC” the two are, of course, not mutually exclusive concepts/problems - but I see them [different from many of my friends here] as a matter of OVERALL STRATEGY and what is the most effective strategy to get Democrats out of power). I focus on whether a strategy can be reasonably effective and yield results rather than what will make me feel good when I go to bed at night. I think that we ALL see this as “willing to take some hits/loses” but view the “loses” differently in that some here are willing to go 100% Conservative and (maybe) let them lose (that is their “lose”) and my definition of taking the loss is that someone like Crist becomes the compromise but is seated - we win in reducing Democrat power, numbers toward regaining majority, but lose in that we have some that is NOT as Conservative as we want him to be…. I want him to be REPUBLICAN loyal at least and be with us on tough votes RED-DOG unlike (Snow,Collins,disreSpecter) RINOs. I know some of you believe he will be the RINO rather than the RED-DOG and we should be able to have those/these honest/earnest discussions (and think about #8 as it relates to this).
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
There is a great case to be made for Rubio...
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 3:03PM EDT (link)especilly when he is contrasted with Crist…but The RSers we can’t convince are the appeasers who refuse to admit we can’t win by acting like Democrats.
What I’m not understanding here is why you keep saying you agree with us but you keep making the case for moderating and voting for Crist over Rubio.
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simple, I examine each race on its own merits
JLenardDetroit Friday, May 15th at 3:58PM EDT (link)and I expect people to explain how/why Rubio will be able to win a GENERAL ELECTION… but I suspect I’ll hear only Birds chirping again…. I’m not saying that I’m convinced he COULDN’T win the General, I am wanting to know if he has enough name recognition or if folks think he’ll be able to get enough… OR IF THERE IS ANOTHER CONSERVATIVE THAT MIGHT BE IN A BETTER POSITION TO BEAT CRIST AND INSURE A GENERAL ELECTION WIN….. more crickets…..
I don’t see it Black/White if you ain’t 100% in agreement your somehow AGAINST US….
How is the “but this goes to 11…..” supposed to win the General Election? I put forth 12, I got response on #3 Taxes and got (IMO) a weak response — rather, no specifics in ANY response…. Is it the Cig-Tax or something else!?!?!?!? Crist and taxes [includes press-links] Just giving me flack because I refuse to just “accept” your current position IN THIS ONE PARTICULAR INSTANCE does a dis-service to yourself IMO, as I know you are all capable of putting forth a REAL ARGUMENT (”but this goes to 11…. ” is what I get) There is overall Natl strategy and then each State is different to work a strategy in….. I’m not “hip” with lets back the Conservative REGARDLESS if he/she can/will Win. I want CONSERVATIVES that can/will Win GENERAL ELECTIONS not just Primaries, but no-one wants to go beyond the Primary.
Again, you don’t have to convince me, but how do you plan on convincing a FL Voter in the General Election?!?!? with ZERO answers now to someone like me in a friendly environment
What is the Tax Issue?
Is there someone other than Rubio that might be a GOOD choice?
Who are the potential Democrat opponents for the General (it matters)?
etc…..
For anyone just jumping in via this Comment: Crist/Rubio 12 points [with links] only 1 has half-hearted (and dismissively) been addressed.
Go ahead, deflect….. I’m not 100% blindly with you… so just be dismissive… We CANNOT just dismiss FL Voters - we actually have to be able to convince them WHY they should vote for RUBIO in the General Election over what-ever Democrat.
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+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
but you start with the assumption that Rubio can't win...
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 8:29PM EDT (link)so we should support Crist no matter what he believes and no matter what damage Crist does to the party and it’s credibility?
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Michael Williams for Senate
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SarahPAC
Ohh and one thing is for sure...he won't win the General election because he'll be sunk in the primaries byt the same people who brought us 2006 and 2010
AceInTX Friday, May 15th at 8:34PM EDT (link)Cute game you play here…
Fair enugh…I’ll prove to you Rubio can win the GENERAL ELECTION when you prove Crist can win the GENERAL ELECTION. I can tell you why Rubio SHOULD win the GENERAL ELECTION Can you do the same for Crist
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Crist or Rubio - the GENERAL Election
JLenardDetroit Friday, May 15th at 9:34PM EDT (link)OK, I’ll bite and go first, these are NOT my creations (probably in the NRSC arguments, which is why people freak out) but I do think they (or most) are REASONABLE thoughts….
Crist (for Crist and only about Crist nothing AGAINST Rubio)…..
Why he SHOULD be able to win…..
1. Has (proven he can win) WON State-wide Elections already (AG/Gov)
2. His popularity (though I’ve not seen any recent “popularity” ratings to know if they are holding.
3. Name recognation Nation and State-wide, Media Front Page on a regular basis (not always for the right reasons), Name recognition, even above beyond #2 for those who may be living under a Rock are most likely to know who he is and as pathetically stupid as it is it tends to make some difference (some voters are very stupid and vote on popularity and/or name recognition).
4. The Tax Issue, as currently pointed out Cig-Tax (Crist and taxes [includes press-links]) is NOT (IMO) as big a deal as being made or they (Republicans in the FL Legislature are supporting it) and is OFFSET by the Property Tax Cuts (by recent ballot initiative - again, same way MI Gov got it through - and the Mitt,Mike,Rudy points)
5. Has war-chest that will be needed to be competitive
6. That 2010 backlash we suspect and hope happens (obviously, this one is good for either Crist or Rubio - so I’ll give you one even with this one)
Why he MIGHT NOT win….
1. Our Sit-It-Out army here at RS cost him more votes than he makes up in Independents (that he needs to build on top of any CORE Republicans)
2. Been in Governorship too short a time (but he was AG for some time)… again, Palin, if most were willing to except that quick turnaround they’ll accept this one (same as they would have for Jindal for a quick win)
3. Ties to Bush family
Find me a Conservative that comes close enough to those “Positives” and he’d be the one, I don’t think Rubio fits those - he may be a better person to have in the Senate than Crist, but he has to start the mountain from the bottom where Crist is 1/2 way up already. THAT seems to be the NRSC’s position, doesn’t make it the BEST reasons to pick a Candidate but they are worried about gaining the seat rather than just taking a chance at gaining the seat.
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
On RedDogs...
mbecker908 Friday, May 15th at 4:58PM EDT (link)I don’t have much problem with the ME Girls. They aren’t in leadership and don’t pretend to be. They don’t control any “important” committees. This most recent vote is the only one I can recall that’s really “hurt” us and my guess is that had Specter kept his f*ing mouth shut the ME Girls would not have strayed.
seems reasonable, Thanks, Good point/analysis IMO (nt)
JLenardDetroit Friday, May 15th at 9:04PM EDT (link)(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
However, if they were RedDog rather than RINO, they wouldn't have voted for Stimulus (nt)
JLenardDetroit Friday, May 15th at 9:54PM EDT (link)(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I don't care what moniker they wear, I care about
mbecker908 Friday, May 15th at 10:35PM EDT (link)the effect on legislation. And the bottom line is that they have virtually no bad effect on legislation. I also remain convinced that they voted for the Stimulus because Specter did, I mean it’s not like they “got” anything of significance (and S did) and because Specter voted YEA, their vote was irrelevant.
JL I think this might be an answer on whether Crist is RINO or Red Dog
AKSteveB Thursday, May 14th at 4:23PM EDT (link)Interesting article in the Daily Beast
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-13/charlie-crists-secret/
This paragraph stands out.
Crist is not a conservative. With his permanent tan and slick white mane, he’s more like a kinder, gentler Latin American caudillo, who wants nothing more than to be cheered on by adoring throngs.
Read the whole thing, it seems to have the ring of truth.
Hell is other people - Sartre
I appreciate the link/info
JLenardDetroit Thursday, May 14th at 5:21PM EDT (link)I have always said I have concerns about him… I am quickly moving to I have GRAVE concerns with him….. Yet I am still CONCERNED also about winning seats that do count in the R column toward reclaiming Majority control…. and I do appreciate the discussions as to how much help he/others would be ONCE we do get it.
I want a much more staunch and unapologetic Conservative, but I have to at least THINK (not feel) we can win with him. Toomey can in PA, can Rubio in FL…. Let people make the argument! Bring all of us “unsure” people around!!!!
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Your last phrase is key
civil_truth Thursday, May 14th at 4:02PM EDT (link)“If we can’t sell conservatism then [2010], then we are lost anyway.”
Exactly, and if we don’t have people hawking our wares, we aren’t going to get sales.
Which is why we need to get more conservatives running in the general election.
A third electoral disaster in 2010 because the Republicans again go Democratic-Lite will be nearly impossible to reverse, both because of the inertia of our political system, but also because we will have so muddied the brand that no one will trust our sales personnel in the future enough to switch, even if they’re unhappy with the status quo.
“Better the devil I know than the devil I don’t” Yes, if we get identified as just another “devil”, we’re not exactly going to prevail.
And Rightly So!
JLD and CV nail it - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Thursday, May 14th at 4:07PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Amen...now is the time for stark contrasts with the Democrats for the coming backlash...
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 4:25PM EDT (link)muddying the water and promoting people who actively work to blur the line between what it means to be a Republican vs a Democrat is the absolute worse strategy!
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Michael Williams for Senate
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Amen and Amen brutha! nt
AceInTX Thursday, May 14th at 4:15PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
That's funny... we have a Blue Dog Cafe...
Vladimir Thursday, May 14th at 1:26PM EDT (link)…owned by George Rodrigue, whose iconic Blue Dog gave both the restaurant and the pathetic Democrats their name.
The political term Blue Dog is a play on Yellow Dog Democrat. You can call me a Red Dog Republican if you wish, because at this point I would rather vote for an old red dog than just about any Democrat you can name. At least an old red dog would offer loyalty, and might be smart enough to be trained to bring me my slippers.
A “red dog” is a football term for an outside linebacker blitz, maybe archaic, but it would connote headhunting aggression.
So, no, “Red Dog” doesn’t convey any substance if you apply it to a RINO.
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer
The Red Dog Saloon used to be the de facto capitol
Achance Thursday, May 14th at 3:02PM EDT (link)of Alaska, at least during the Legislative session. Anymore, it’s just a tourist place that runs a lot of ads in the winter begging locals to come to it - we don’t. The Triangle Bar is now the de facto capitol during the session and the Captain Cook Hotel in Anchorage is the capitol the rest of the year.
In Vino Veritas
a more apt word for Rinos would be
kyle8 Thursday, May 14th at 3:29PM EDT (link)dumbass dog. or maybe, mangy flea bag worm ridden dirty egg sucking hound.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
The Red-Dog distinction
JLenardDetroit Thursday, May 14th at 3:42PM EDT (link)There would be a GREAT distinction between a Red-Dog and a RINO (as I go into great detail in: Red-Dogs, RINOs, CINOs, DINOs, PLINOs, and Blue-Dogs, oh my… The Political Zoo - what/who are they?)…. The Blue-Dog thing has proven to just (at least in relation to the last decade and now) be a Myth - they are nothing but CINOs and/or PLINOs. Getting the definition on who actually would be loyal to the Party when push comes to shove (RED-DOGs) whereas the RINOs abandon the Party when they are needed to be loyal the most.
I’ve got NO PROBLEM standing by a Red-Dog where I will NO LONGER stand by a RINO…. Trouble is, people will fudge my/the term/definition to fit their acceptable %-er level. The main thing is that they would be loyal for those tough votes, in other words, they would NOT have been Snow,Collins,disreSpecter, during the Stimulus vote. There were probably some Republicans in the House that would have liked to vote for the Stimulus to ease their campaigns, but the House held firm (the more Moderate ones acted as Red-Dogs, as they should).
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I agree with that Vlad', but we are talking about the primary, right?
Mike gamecock DeVine Thursday, May 14th at 4:10PM EDT (link)honest inquiry
I at first leaned to Crist, but have been persuaded to back Rubio. Admittedly, it didn’t take much…
where do you lean now, and why
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Kulaks - not a good prognosis
civil_truth Thursday, May 14th at 3:30PM EDT (link)But is
LeninObama really carrying out an NEP - or is a) NEP the default consensus policy of today’s Democratic Party, b) Obama’s trying to end it, andc) the experienced pols are slowing him down until the Dems have consolidated their one-party hegemony over all three branches, so as to lull the “moderate” kulaks to lay down their plows and join the army?And Rightly So!
Kowalski: Well, not "join the army"
civil_truth Thursday, May 14th at 3:35PM EDT (link)…they wouldn’t be trusted to bear arms. So I probably should have said “lay down their arms while plowing the field, thinking things are returning to normal, unaware of the massing troops just over the horizon - and demanding that their skeptical conservative kulaks disband their militia”.
And Rightly So!
It is a New Economic Policy except this time
Achance Thursday, May 14th at 3:42PM EDT (link)the pure or War communism comes later. We have become the party of the Kulaks; small business, moderately successful wage earners and professionals, home owners that actually qualified with credit, character, and capacity rather than EEO. Unfortunately, there’s not enough of us right now.
In Vino Veritas
I guess we're gong to cover all the same ground from yesterday....
JLenardDetroit Wednesday, May 13th at 6:11PM EDT (link)So rather than cut and paste all the same points again, I’ll suggest peeps see Dan McLaughlin’s: Charlie Crist Picks A Fight Republicans Don’t Need
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Drist is basically a dem
red_dawn Wednesday, May 13th at 10:23PM EDT (link)Io i don’t see why we shouldn’t oppose in the primary and, if it suits our conscience, decline to vote for him in the general. I just don’t get how supporting ANOTHER D in R’s clothing is going to get us anywhere.
It will just reinforce the notion in the stupid leaderships’ heads that we will cave, will blink/look away in the staring contest. They win again and the takehome message for them is that, no matter how much we complain, we support the RINO in the end anyway.
I think it is like hitting rock bottom. Maybe we need to go farther into the wolderness before enough of us realize its time for new leadership. New leadership that will lead us OUT of the wilderness instead of deeper into it.
I’m not in Florida so it doesn’t much matter what I think but I am SO SICK of RINOs. Cutting out a cancer is never a pleasant experience but it still needs to be done.
Crist may help in the short term but not the long
Kyle-MI Thursday, May 14th at 3:54PM EDT (link)Our problem in the Senate until we lost control in 2006 was that, while the majority of Republicans were conservative and the majority of Senators were Republican, the majority of Senators were not conservative. The non-conservative majority led to out-of-control spending, bigger government, and the destruction of the Republican brand. If we can only win with people like Crist, we will eventually get the same results. We need a conservative majority, not just a Republican one.