Marathon Pundit went to a Cap and Trade inspired tea party at Mark Kirk’s office. The email about this is timely as we’re having heated discussion among the contributors right now regarding Kirk.
All things being equal, I’m happy to support Kirk for Senate because I think he can win statewide and is at least 50% better than what’s there. I don’t want to chase windmills if I don’t have to and I’m not convinced someone of my liking can win in Illinois, if only because the Illinois GOP and the Democrats would both do the person in.
But Kirk needs to know his vote was unnecessary and unacceptable.
By the way folks, this is a great example of offline activism we should all be doing more of.
After a few minutes outside waving signs on Skokie Bouleverd, Leary and I, accompanied by couple of other protesters, took an elevator up to Kirk’s office.
A polite staffer named Eric met with us for twenty minutes–we all expressed feelings, negative ones, about Kirk’s vote.
Well done!
Moe Lane
Brian Simpson
streetwise_IT
Dan Spencer
Jim Kelly
PG DeFreese
Caleb Howe
Even if he's in favor of cap and trade
bk Monday, June 29th at 5:45PM EDT (link)You’d think as a matter of principle that anyone even remotely conservative could not stand to vote for this given the abominable way it was handled and Rahmmed through.
Bill unread, not even at desk for full debate, etc...
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 6:06PM EDT (link)EXACTLY, standing on those principles alone — that Obama’s promise of FIVE DAYS REVIEW be made available — there was NO EXCUSE for any Republican to vote for this. If they zero confidence in their ability to defend a NO vote on those grounds alone, they should RESIGN NOW!!!!
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
JL, they didn't even finish writing it.
Steph C Monday, June 29th at 6:25PM EDT (link)Remember, there’s a placeholder that is Barney Frank’s responsibility to “fill in.”
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
The Republican alternative: All Of The Above Energy Policy
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 6:45PM EDT (link)good point Steph…. How do they agree with leaving Barney Frank an opportunity to advance ANYTHING?
They had zero reason (at least the Military Funding they could claim to not want to drag out, but that one was another one where there was little reason/excuse to vote for it when it had LESS to do with Military Funding than hiding other things in it to play politics with it while accusing us of doing so… laughable) to back down on this one. If they cannot go back to their District and explain that the jackACES Act was lacking all the things we speak of and then promote the Republican plan option, they should RESIGN IMMEDIATELY — we have a choice, we are NOT just the Party of NO we have/had a plan and should be pushing it.
It is getting more and more difficult for us to defend some of these folks for election/reelection based on their “location” and they need some slack…. And I find it interesting how some have “softened” (the way I see it) on some here while not budging in other discussions about “Electability discussions.” We all can/will have to, appearantly, pick and choose our own exceptions to the Conservatives ONLY rule we’d prefer.
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I know.
Steph C Monday, June 29th at 7:13PM EDT (link)“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
Mark Kirk is not a conservative...
Freedomlover Monday, June 29th at 6:11PM EDT (link)He says he’s a Republican but that’s as close as he gets to conservatism. He represents a very liberal tree hugging community. They keep on voting him in because he delivers. I’m sure the only reason he says he’s a Republican is because the Dem. candidate pools are spilling over. And, because of the Blago fiasco I believe he thinks he can get further political mileage as a Republican. Don’t be fooled if he gets the Senate or governorship, he will behave as a Democrat.
Will we see the "Throw out all the RINOs crowd" in this Diary?
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 7:59PM EDT (link)I would have thought that Bono in CALIFORNIA being the easiest to “excuse” if any were to be, with all the Enviro-Terrorists out there… Had I, or a handful of others, suggested the exact same thing said in this Diary there would be 200 STOP SUPPORTING RINOs posts in about 5 seconds. We’ll see if they show and remain consistant and honest, or if they really do temper based on the name at the top of the Diary or Comment Post.
Again, I may otherwise be convinced by Erick or anyone else to relax my desire to NOT forgive/forget with these particular Eight (or ANY particular one or two of them)… But for right now I am beyond HEATED over these Tr8ors and see little excuse for this vote… The only “reason” is a “well it was going to pass the House anyway and I had to cover myself in my District” … We pick and choose who we let off with that depending on what?
We’re going to let the KIRK (IL) guy slide just because it is Obama’s home State? Again, enough prompting I can be persuaded, but I gotta hear a bit more of WHY? I, at least, gave 12 points [with additional links] why I was willing to make an exception!
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
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Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
well let me be the first to chime in...
kyle8 Monday, June 29th at 8:04PM EDT (link)Throw the worthless M-F’er out! It is not that we need ideological purity. It is just that we need SOMETHING.
If we can’t count on our members to support the party on something as serious as this then we are really, literally better off with a democrat in the seat. At least then you can blame Democrats for what goes wrong, and you can work all out to get rid of them.
Why are the democrats so powerful, even when they are in the minority? Because they understand this.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
my infinite respect for your honesty...
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 8:40PM EDT (link)while we may not always agree! Though, in this case we do!!! As you said…
many think that same thing with Republican’s wishy-washy-ness re: the Porkulus thing too which gives one of the rubs with Crist.
We should not take the grief we all do, at times, for our positions. We just gotta allow the disagreements and leave them at that.
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I will not forget...
Freedomlover Monday, June 29th at 8:33PM EDT (link)that these 8 Rhinos for their own personal reasons have turned this life altering bill for EVERY American into a bipartisan fiasco. It probably would have passed anyway, but, they have now given more fuel to the Democrats who did not vote for it, to win in the next election.
Any Democrat up for election in 2010 will not have Obama’s coattails to carry them. If these 8 had voted No, Nancy would have needed more vulnerable Democrats to vote for it. Which could have
jeopardized their reelections. And, as dutiful little soldiers, they would have followed orders. But, since we had the turncoat 8, they didn’t have to take that risk.
Liberals may be vile, but they’re skillful politicians. They’re not as stupid as some voters.
Didi I hear my name?....Somebody called my name!
AceInTX Monday, June 29th at 11:59PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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as the Gremlin said to Buggs...
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 12:31AM EDT (link)“I like him.. he’s silly”
lol
But again, in this case… I DO want these bums punished/tossed! Waiting on someone to give us good reasons otherwise!?!?!? If we can FORGIVE(but not forget) Kirk then that should also apply to others in other races…. Many of us, including me, were willing to “over-look” some Liberal compromises out of Mitt, Mike, and/or Rudy in the name of having a Republican President! While others, as Governor, don’t get same consideration for “Tax compromises” - granted, some time passed for them before the Presidential run.
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I just wish you were more consistant...this time they gored YOUR ox
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 12:39AM EDT (link)they’ve managed to gore almost every one of mine before this!
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Can't let that stand...
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 1:09AM EDT (link)it might imply to some that I accept some ObamAgenda … I DO NOT! Nor did I approve of all of Bush 43 antics…..
Bushes failure to Veto Budgets
Irked with Medicare-D
and Amnesty
I was NOT happy with TARP
Nor Porkulus
Nor CapNTr8ors
etc…..
No Child Left Behind
HSA (which could’ve reduced some Govt as we folded agencies in)
etc… etc… etc….
They’ve gored alot of Oxes over long periods of times… Just got little viable alternatives…. GIVE US SOME DARN ALTERNATIVES PEOPLE!!!!
Conservative Candidates (the Diary)
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I understand that...and I think I know where you stand on some of this...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 10:35AM EDT (link)but why this upsets you more than Specter, Snow and Collins voting for Porculous, or the NRSC endorsing a tax and spend social liberal for Senate in Florida is beyond me…you’ve been one of the chief apologists around here for these RINOs.
I’m not saying that’s all bad…and I’m glad you get it at least on this one bill…but you have to understand where I’m coming from…this is nothing new for these eight…and there are more of their kind who will rear their ugly heads on other issues…I just hope you’ll remember this when they do!
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OK, my two cents...
DONTREADONME Tuesday, June 30th at 12:39AM EDT (link)or maybe this is a question, what should be the unifying factor for the Republican party?
I am the point now where I have decided that I would love to see these guys walk, but darn it Zero is so dangerous now to this country I have to accept everyone that will help in turning back all of the damage that has occured since January of 2007.
That said, all I want is to turn back the size of Government now, fire all of the insourcing that has started to replace my job in the DoD, (yes, I have personal stake in this now), never allow this Cap and Trade thing go through, no Public Health Care option, reverse all of the new programs that were insitituted as a result of the Porkulus, Porkubus etc. The Government needs a slash job to the rank and file, either that or everyone needs to take a pay cut.
So, any Republican that is willing to stop all of this garbage is on board as far as I am concerned. If you voted for the Cap and Trade, I wonder whether you are for smaller government. That said, I have sacrificed all of the other pillars of my conservatism to undo the damage that is occuring. Is that compromise fair?
we are all so tired and frustrated beyond belief from these fools
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 1:52AM EDT (link)Are there NO real Conservatives left in most of the country? Really, why should we bother then?
Uggggghhhhh!!!!
There is NO ALTERNATE PARTY that will amount to anything so we are stuck within the Republican Party….
For those complaining about RINOs (AND I AM ONE OF THOSE FOLKS COMPLAINING ABOUT RINOS MANY TIMES) Who are our choices/alternatives? Who of you out there have NOT yet run for Office and when then can we expect you to step up?!?!?
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I agree...we're stuck with the Republican Party...but we don't have to put up with it's bad behavior...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 10:42AM EDT (link)That’s what burns me about the big tent crowd…We need to make this party stand for something or we might as well make Obama Emperor and have done with it…
It’s not about one issue…it’s about a powerful minority in this party that pulls all the strings that not only go along once in a while with the Democrats…but actively collaborate with them in the destruction of every principle and ideal that has made this country great.
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False choice.
randy streu Tuesday, June 30th at 10:50AM EDT (link)“Who of you out there have NOT yet run for Office and when then can we expect you to step up?!?!?”
So, what, you have to run for office or STFU? That’s just dumb. Not everybody is destined to be a politician. I think to a very large extent you equate pointing out the problem as simple whining. Couldn’t be more wrong. Sometime’s a person’s function IS to point out the problem. And, absolutely, that person can/should also actively support those who actually espouse the values he is preaching. But not everyone is a born leader, and the suggestion that they step into a leadership role, especially on the political field, or forfeit their right to point out the issues is woefully lacking in reality.
Blogging also at
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The Minority Report
my experience working with the government in the Department of Justice says they desparately need to get rid of middle and upper management...not rank and file. nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 10:37AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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I'm far from a "throw out the Rino" person, but...
Brian Hibbert Tuesday, June 30th at 10:24AM EDT (link)This is primary season. This is the time to fight ideological battles within a party. I think we should keep Mark Kirk in his current house seat, but to have him in the Senate mean we have another permanent squishy vote in the Senate. It’s time to stop that trend and support someone a bit more conservative in the primary.
Unfortunately, Kirk is the only significant name I’ve heard for IL Senate on the GOP side so far. I was hoping Dan Rutherford would run, but the noises I’m hearing are that he’s going to run for an unspecified statewide position in the Illinois government (he ran for Secretary of State in 06).
I won’t be giving any money to Kirk. I’ll vote for someone else in the primary. If he wins the primary, I’ll vote for him and maybe even talk him up when I knock doors for other candidates. But I won’t like it.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
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And this is where the problem is...
Freedomlover Saturday, July 4th at 6:15PM EDT (link)Maybe we ought to just start voting NO on stuff. If you don’t believe in Kirk and you don’t like the Dem, then just ignore that office on the ballot. That way when the Dem wins and bad legislation is enacted they can’t fall back on the ever present excuse, ” Well Republicans voted for it too!” The Statist Media gets away with that all the time, with Rhinos like Snow and Collins. It doesn’t matter that the majority of Republicans voted for and/or against, they just pick up these few Rhinos and make a case. Most people don’t do their research and accept MSM biased reports. We need to start reading the Saul Alinsky Rules of Radicals and work against it. Otherwise, we will see that Obama wants to change the Constitution to reflect the Communist Alinsky’s views.
Sitting out the election is a vote for the Democrat.
Brian Hibbert Tuesday, July 7th at 9:00PM EDT (link)It’s not an option. I will work for anyone otehr than Kirk in the primary, but if he should win it, I’ll vote for him in the General. A squishy R is better than a liberal D. I would just prefer a better option.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
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In that "world's worst jobs" TV show
E Pluribus Unum Monday, June 29th at 5:52PM EDT (link)somewhere there HAS to be room for “phone answerer in the office of one of the 8 Republicans who voted for Cap-n-Crap”.
Seriously, that poor lady.
Carthago delenda est
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What am I missing?
JustLeaveMeAlone Monday, June 29th at 5:59PM EDT (link)Because to me, this seems incredibly naive and ineffectively, albeit well-intentioned.
Kirk wasn’t there — he was in DC. The poor staffer, Eric, was probably just thinking, oh jeez, let me placate these guys and let ‘em vent and get ‘em out of here.
Does anyone really believe Eric the staffer was swayed? Does anyone think this will make one iota of difference to Kirk?
I’m sorry — but I just don’t see it. These pols don’t need to be reasoned with. They need to be swatted, hard, with something painful. The only thing they appear to understand is being drummed out of office and kept from being elected to another.
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Tr8ors: as one who would often be on the other side of this argument
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 6:12PM EDT (link)and defending an occasional “off-base” vote… I CANNOT DO SO HERE! This is one, with the way this all went down, that I find hard to excuse and I want to hear directly from one of the Tr8ors how their YEA vote is defensible in any way, shape, or form!?!?! (More in Erick’s De Cap at 8… I’ve admitted being “too hard” on a few folks for not standing up for core Conservative values (mainly, unwillingness to go with harsher tone on ObamaFAIL message) and I will apologize and support them again later BUT ONLY IF I GET A REAL REASONED RESPONSE WHY I SHOULD THIS TIME!!!! Response from the Eight, not a advocate - from them directly how/why the Vote was the “best interest.”
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
JL...it's not just this one vote with these guys....they are from the same crew...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 12:12AM EDT (link)The first thing that popped into my head when I heard there were 8 was…”how many are in the RMSP”?
the answer is 6 out of 8…
and Kirk is the worse of the bunch on this…He’s not only an RMSPer…he’s co-Chair of the Tuesday group and a member of Republicans for Choice, the Republican Majority for Choice, Republicans for Environmental protection and the Republican Leadership Council. The only liberal Republican Organizations I can think of that he may not be involved with would be The RIPON Society and the Log Cabin Republicans.
I won’t go down the list I did in the other thread but will repeat his scores with the ACU, the CFG and the NRA:
He scores a 42% in 2008 and 32% in 2007 with the Club for Growth.
He has an ACU lifetime rating of 55% with his numbers in 2008 being 48% in an election year…and 40% in 2007 a non election year…
He has a D rating with the NRA on Gun control issues. He’s favored extending the Brady bill, closing the “gun show Loophole” backed federal laws requiring trigger locks and opposed protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits.
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Thanks for the additional related info Ace
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 12:43AM EDT (link)does indeed hardly make him better than Burris is the point/question? I hope we don’t have to be that desperate in IL, we can have a Candidate that is decidedly further Right than that!
BUT WHO?!?!?
But come election day: How electing ANY Democrat empowers the antithesis of Conservativism, the Ultra-Far-Left Progressive/Socialist/Democrats — I hate to say the best reason to vote for someone is who they will Caucus with, but…..
I DO NOT like being put in these positions, but if/when it comes down to that. Do we need to go into the “how AltParty is RINOism - can one catch RINOvirus?” discussion again about if we are to be as bad as those we criticise?!?! We’ve both covered our frustration on that, but I still insist there are others that will sit-out or go 3rd — not ALL peoples are represented in our discussions here (but my high respect/regards to kyle for his honest admissions on the topics).
Somebody please come up with a reasonable Candidate for IL!!!!
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
This is where I stand in this...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 10:56AM EDT (link)In war…it is never good to have the enemy in your ranks…You can better fight the battle with a smaller, more united unit than you can when you have battles breaking out between your own men in the battlements during the heat of battle…let alone when you have to contend with your own people opening the gates to the enemy…
This is where we are…We need to enforce some kind of discipline in this…As desperate as things were for Washington during the days at Valley Forge….and as disparate as he was for fighting men…he still had to execute a number of deserters as an example to the rest of the continental army!
Maybe a few of these RINO heads need to fist of all to get rid of the enemy in our ranks…and to serve as an example to the rest of the potential deserters so we don’t lose even more of the to desertion in the long run!
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No, it does make a difference
E Pluribus Unum Monday, June 29th at 6:14PM EDT (link)In general , congress-critters are very insular. They get their impressions of what the world thinks from (a) their colleagues, (b) the evening news from the liberal press, and (c) their staff.
If the staff is feeling intense heat, and they are in this case, every minute the office is open for business, Mister Kirk is getting earfuls, and plenty of it, from his staff. Even if some or all of them is in favor of his vote.
It counts. Next time something like this comes up (like say, the reconciliation bill in the next month or whenever, after the Senate presumably passes it), his staff will be all up in his rear end telling him not to vote for it.
Carthago delenda est
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Home office phone included since they are home now
snewb098 Monday, June 29th at 6:06PM EDT (link)Bono Mack (CA) (home office) 760-323-8810 (DC) 202-225-5330
Castle (DE) (home office) 302-428-1902 (DC) 202-225-4165
Kirk (IL) (home office) 847-940-0202 (DC)202-225-4835
Lance (NJ) (home office) 908-518-7733 (DC)202-225-5361
Lobiondo (NJ) (home office) 609-625-5008 (DC) 202-225-6572
McHugh (NY) (home office) 315-782-3150 (DC)202-225-4611
Reichart (WA) (home office) 206 275-3438 (DC) 202-225-7761
Chris Smith (NJ) (home office) 609-585-7878 (DC)202-225-3765
"Don't want to chase windmills" eh, what?
Vladimir Monday, June 29th at 7:04PM EDT (link)That’s all we’ll have to chase if this abomination passes.
How any self-style “conservative” could fail to see how horrible Waxman-Markey is is beyond me. Stop watching the Discovery Channel & use some common sense!
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer
I find it a little hypocritical that
redloft Monday, June 29th at 7:06PM EDT (link)You are “happy” to support Kirk because “he can win statewide and is at least 50% better than what’s there,” but you actively campaign against Charlie Crist because he isn’t conservative enough for you. Sorry, but if you don’t think Crist is 50% better than Meek, you are clearly ignorant. And Rubio is a very weak candidate statewide–just look at the latest poll: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2009/06/another-poll-another-reminder-of-crist-lead-over-rubio.html
I hate to break the news to you, but an unknown, former State Rep from Miami, with a hard-line conservative ideology just cannont win in a general election in Florida, unless your last name is Bush.
I think it’s disingenuous to actively campaign against a candidate that is virtually guaranteed to keep a seat red, while supporting someone even less conservative with an outside chance to pick up a seat.
*Sigh*
Dave_in_Fla Monday, June 29th at 7:51PM EDT (link)Sorry, but the Crist coronation isn’t going to happen, his support with the base is very weak and will hurt him in the general. Crist absolutely needs Rubio to win the general. If he isn’t made to fight for the nomination and reassure the GOP base, then he will be hurt by the weak support in heavy red districts. Brevard and the panhandle won’t go to the polls for Crist right now, and their house seats are safe. This will guarantee Sink wins.
I can strongly argue that Rubio has a better chance of winning the general because he can draw strong support from south Florida which otherwise will support Sink in high numbers.
Now whether of not the same can be said for Kirk is debatable, but Florida at least has a history of voting for Republicans. You can’t say that for Illinois.
“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” - Joe McCarthy
absolutely, Crist needs Rubio to push him and vica-versa...
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 8:13PM EDT (link)and if Rubio can indeed beat Crist to come out of the Primary nomination he might indeed be able to carry the State…. I think it all depends on whether the Primary can remain CIVIL - or either Candidate may come out so damaged as to LOSE TO THE DEMOCRAT!
Rubio losing to Crist (and Crist needs to see the reminder at the bottom of this post) could/should, if the campaign is done in the right fashion (using Primaries to build up future candidates) can set him up as the FAVORITE for the other Senate seat in FL (that is my hope/desire, anyway) — or are others going to try and place-holder that one for Jeb?!?!? (see: Conservative Candidates (the Diary) — many have thought them both okay as Governor but have had issues with them, I know I sure have - both of them - but the Senate seat is now “different.”) Again, to leave no ambiguity, I’d prefer to see Rubio get this one but do NOT want any chance of it going to the Democrats - so who gets this first seat and the other the next one I’m not gonna quibble about!
Crist/Rubio 12 points [with links]
BUT THIS DIARY IS NOT ABOUT CRIST/RUBIO or is it impossible to avoid the lists of who is willing to back the one but not the other ?!?!?
That reminder:
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
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Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
the reason I brought Crist/Rubio
redloft Monday, June 29th at 8:35PM EDT (link)into this was to question the logic used by Erick. If he is willing to support a purple candidate who might be able to win in a tough state, then he should at the very least, stop actively campaigning against a moderate that will win in a must-win state.
And to the point that Crist needs Rubio, I respectfully disagree. Crist has a huge crossover appeal and being forced to move to the right is unnecessary in a campaign against Meek. You aren’t giving Crist’s popularity among moderates and liberals enough merit-they will turn out on election day. What is really needed is a good primary for McCollum (Dockery?) that will energize the base to turn out against Sink and then let Crist bring the middle over to our side.
At the end of the day, I’m glad Erick is supporting Kirk.
Florida doesn't need a pseudo-moderate. A Conservative can win Florida.
randy streu Monday, June 29th at 8:38PM EDT (link)That’s the difference.
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But Rubio is anything but a sure win
redloft Monday, June 29th at 10:16PM EDT (link)Crist wins the seat easily. I guess some are willing to risk losing a Republican seat but I would prefer take a win and focus on other races. We cannot risk give the Democrats that 60th vote. That would be a total disaster….
Sorry, that dog don't hunt.
randy streu Monday, June 29th at 10:34PM EDT (link)Crist is too liberal to do us any damned good anyway. Who cares if he saves us from dealing with 60 Dem. seats if he just votes with them anyway, when it counts?
I’m not going to take this any further, out of respect for the original post. This particular discussion has been played out probably 30 different times. Suffice to say, I don’t buy it.
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If we elect Crist...
George Claghorn Monday, June 29th at 10:47PM EDT (link)..it’s just as helpful to us as giving the Democrats another vote. Crist is a RINO of the highest magnitude.
“Victory comes, though we know not when. We must be happy warriors until the end.
For those of you who struggle with what goes on, who see retreat and capitulation, and who feel like not just your political opponents, but those who hold dear all those things you hold as blasphemous — be cheerful. Be happy. Victory is already yours.
You must just have the courage to not get discouraged and have the will to fight on.” – Erick Erickson at RightOnline
To be clear...Crist is Kirk...Kirk is Crist...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 12:20AM EDT (link)there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference!
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In other words...why back either of them? nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 12:20AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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Exactly (nt)
George Claghorn Tuesday, June 30th at 10:27AM EDT (link)“Victory comes, though we know not when. We must be happy warriors until the end.
For those of you who struggle with what goes on, who see retreat and capitulation, and who feel like not just your political opponents, but those who hold dear all those things you hold as blasphemous — be cheerful. Be happy. Victory is already yours.
You must just have the courage to not get discouraged and have the will to fight on.” – Erick Erickson at RightOnline
But there is a difference between
redloft Tuesday, June 30th at 10:57AM EDT (link)Crist and Meek. We need to look at the bigger picture.
There is also a bigger difference between Meek and Rubio...so what's your point...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 4:47PM EDT (link)I’ve had my fill of the, “WE HAVE TO BACK THE GUY WHO CAN WIN NO MATTER WHAT HE STANDS FOR” FOOLISHNESS…
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This posted before I was finished somhow...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 4:56PM EDT (link)We keep hearing we have to vote for the moderate/liberal Republican because he’s the only guy that can win…when there is no proof the other guy can’t win…it’s a game I’ve watched being played for 20 years now…and I’m sick of it…
How do you win elections when your leadership starts out from ground zero with the idea in their head that every issue you stand for as a party is a loser from the start?
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This I agree with
The_Gadfly Thursday, July 2nd at 5:07PM EDT (link)And if Kirk had a conservative opponent, I’d say the RNC and affiliates should sit out the primary until it was done, with the exception that if any primary candidate throws mud at another Republican, they lose party support, and if there are only two candidates left in the race, that would mean the RNC could endorse the other candidate in the primary.
We’ve been called racists enough now that it shouldn’t bother us any more.
-AChance, http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/11/03/what-men-may-do-we-have-done/#comment-24463
If NY23 was a beat down for Conservatives, what do you call what happened to Progressives in NJ and VA?
inspired by ColdWarrior, http://www.redstate.com/hooah_mac/2009/11/04/ny-23-the-agony-of-defeat-not-so-much/#comment-156
If you can move blue to purple it helps
The_Gadfly Tuesday, June 30th at 2:37PM EDT (link)not as much as blue to red, but it does help (and I’m usually one of the louder folks on the ‘Why can’t we have open season on RINOs with no bag limit’ threads).
Erick believes Florida is Red, so there’s no need to move Red to Purple, while the Kirk seat is Blue and would move to Purple. And that’s the essential question: Is Florida Red?
As I stated once before, my preference is Rubio, but my biggest problem was that the RNC and its affiliates backed Crist before the primary. If they stayed neutral in the primary and only insisted on a clean campaign I’d be okay.
We’ve been called racists enough now that it shouldn’t bother us any more.
-AChance, http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/11/03/what-men-may-do-we-have-done/#comment-24463
If NY23 was a beat down for Conservatives, what do you call what happened to Progressives in NJ and VA?
inspired by ColdWarrior, http://www.redstate.com/hooah_mac/2009/11/04/ny-23-the-agony-of-defeat-not-so-much/#comment-156
so how does someone with a 40% voting record on social and fiscal issues and has a D rating with the NRA move a blue state to Purple? nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 4:52PM EDT (link)You make no sense man…Kirk is a liberal…he has a liberal voting record…how does he help us except by making us feel good on election night because we picked up a seat…how does that help us when the rubber meets the road…and it’s time for the Republican PArty to govern again and we can’t because we have a bunch of liberals in the caucus who wont let the party do what it says it stands for?!
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If there were a conservative running against him, I would agree.
The_Gadfly Thursday, July 2nd at 5:04PM EDT (link)But there’s not, and there doesn’t seem to be one in the wings. I’ll take the lighter shade of blue. I think I can count on him for one important vote, after that yeah he’s a RINO. But I think that if we get to 51 Rs in the Senate, he’ll vote for a Republican Majority leader instead of the D.
Okay, maybe I’m dreaming, but then everybody thought Dean was nuts with his every race matters mantra. Guess what? Were now looking at a filibuster proof majority in the Senate to ramrod through whatever The Big 0 wants. I’ll take Kirk over Franken any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Same thing would apply with Reid. Yeah, I’ll kvetch about afterward, but it would be a better spot to be in.
We’ve been called racists enough now that it shouldn’t bother us any more.
-AChance, http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/11/03/what-men-may-do-we-have-done/#comment-24463
If NY23 was a beat down for Conservatives, what do you call what happened to Progressives in NJ and VA?
inspired by ColdWarrior, http://www.redstate.com/hooah_mac/2009/11/04/ny-23-the-agony-of-defeat-not-so-much/#comment-156
There won't be a Conservative running against him because the PArty will back him...That's the problem! nt
AceInTX Friday, July 3rd at 11:00AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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The difference is enforcement of party discipline
civil_truth Friday, July 3rd at 11:11AM EDT (link)Art has long harped on this, but he Democrats can recruit (squishes) because they make it clear that on critical votes, they have to toe the party line if their vote is needed. If their vote is not needed, then they may get released to appease their constituency.
Cynical, but it has worked like a charm for the Democrats.
Republicans - no discipline, and the totally opposite behavior. They vote the party line on unimportant votes, they buck the party on crucial votes - and then everyone rationalizes as to why they “had” to do that… because of their district, to be bipartisan, to allow future cooperation…ad nauseum. And the party leadeship lets them go their way.
And then the pundits wonder why we are a shrinking minority in Congress.
And Rightly So!
I Think That Is A Fair Assessment
Swamp_Yankee Tuesday, June 30th at 4:55PM EDT (link)and the way we should adress these issues.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
redloft: You're not thinking things through ...
Martin Knight Tuesday, June 30th at 10:56AM EDT (link)What’s the point of electing a Republican only to watch him vote time and time again with the other side? That’s the type of Republican Crist is promising to be - another Lincoln Chafee. And worse, he’ll be giving the Democratic majority “Bipartisan” cover for their agenda.
If Crist wins the Primary, I’ll support him … but that’s just me being a team player - something most GOP “moderates” seem to have a major problem with. I get this feeling that if Crist loses to Rubio, he’ll follow the moderate playbook (i.e. Schwarz, Gilchrest, Leach, etc.) and endorse Sink.
Ultimately, this far from election day, I’d rather not fall behind someone who gives every indication of intending to be a reliable Republican vote for Obama’s Far Left agenda in the Senate. I’m already pretty certain that come 2012, Crist would be at the Democratic Convention giving a keynote speech endorsing Obama.
I have no such concerns with Rubio.
PS: The Democratic Establishment in 2006 backed State Treasurer Jon Morrison to challenge Conrad Burns in MT. The Democratic base backed Jon Tester. How’d that turn out? Hint: Tester is currently the serving junior Senator from Montana.
The Democrats have learned to listen to their base and it has paid off - they have it right. The idea that the GOP can prosper by ignoring, or worse, sticking its finger in the collective eyes of its most loyal supporters was the entire basis of the disaster that was the McCain 2008 Campaign.
We need to re-examine that approach.
You don't know Charlie Crist
redloft Tuesday, June 30th at 11:07AM EDT (link)First, I think you all are off the mark on how he will vote in the Senate. True, he isn’t going to be a Coburn or DeMint up there, but he is going to be a reliable Republican. He will fight to lower federal spending and taxes–he will be good on our core issues. But, once the money is ready to go, Crist will be willing to get in there and bring it home to his constituents. That’s what these guys get elected to do.
I’ve said this in the past-just look at Crist’s poltical mentor, Sen. Mack. Connie was able to be a conservative while at the same time being pragmatic when he needed it. Crist will try and do the same thing. I think the irrational exuberance for Rubio byr many folks on this site is misguided. I don’t know why people are trying to push a young, conservative Republican with a bright future into a fight he can’t win. I think it’s a disservice to Rubio.
It's not a fight he can't win.
randy streu Tuesday, June 30th at 11:23AM EDT (link)Losers bow out before the fight has started, just because it looks “hard.”
Who the hell cares if it’s not an easy fight?
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It's a bad career move
redloft Tuesday, June 30th at 11:50AM EDT (link)Rubio has a future in our party and I don’t like seeing him waste his time and tarnish his image—and put in jeaporday a seat that we must-win. The Republican Party in Florida has two strong candidates running statewide–Crist and Putnam (for Ag Commish) and we need to field our best team. Rubio should run for Atty Gen or Gov.
If it's such a must-win, again I ask
randy streu Tuesday, June 30th at 12:19PM EDT (link)what’s the point in putting in a RINO who will turn his back when he’s needed?
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And by the way, Rubio was running first.
randy streu Tuesday, June 30th at 12:20PM EDT (link)This is a fight Crist started, when he decided that he would run his “moderate” butt against a Conservative.
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Let's not forget Cornyn and the NRSC's roll in this fight! nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 5:20PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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How's Rubio tarnishing his image? Is the Senate seat Crist's birthright?
Martin Knight Tuesday, June 30th at 12:33PM EDT (link)Show me something, anything, that indicates that Crist would not be a Chafee if he gets into the Senate … because he seems to respond with “How high?” when Obama says “Jump!”
Don't you understand Martin...It's Charlie's turn...it's not about what he stands for...nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 5:21PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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Crist is a big government rino putz
kyle8 Tuesday, June 30th at 11:53AM EDT (link)we don’t need another one like him stinking up the congress.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Lower taxes? Crist? Lower spending? Crist? Obama's "favorite Republican" Crist?
Martin Knight Tuesday, June 30th at 12:26PM EDT (link)I think it’s you who doesn’t know Crist.
Crist stood with the Democrats in Florida to fight against the Rubio led GOP majority in the FL State Legislature when they wanted to cut taxes in the 2007-2008 session. He just signed a budget, that he pushed for, that raised taxes on the people of Florida.
Crist stood with Obama to urge the passage of the Spendulus and somehow, we’re supposed to believe that he’s going to be a force for lower spending? Something he has not done in Florida despite strong Republican Majorities in both the FL House and Senate?
This is a man who is actually proud that Obama called him his “favorite Republican” and we’re supposed to believe that he is going to be a loyal soldier, and “good on our core issues” when it counts - when he has proven already that he would do anything but? Are you seriously asking us to believe you over our “lying eyes?”
And as for your insistence that Rubio “can’t” win, that attitude encapsulates the mindset of the so-called “moderate Republican”; you are losers. I am yet to see a “moderate Democrat” get up and label another Democrat as being “too far to the Left” or declaring that this or that Democrat “can’t” win. Has it ever occurred to you that Kendrick Meek is “too far to the Left”? That *he* can’t win?
5...nt
Aaron Gardner Tuesday, June 30th at 12:40PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive I
Aaron’s Archive II
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Chalk up one for the home team...well said Martin nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 5:24PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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redloft, in one simple sentence you have encapsulated
janis Tuesday, June 30th at 12:46PM EDT (link)exactly what’s wrong with our political system today. “That’s what these guys get elected to do.” When I vote for a senator who’s going to D.C. from my state, I don’t vote for the one who’s going to bring home the most pork. I vote for the one who I believe will help pass laws to implement the Constitution. Granted, that happens every blue moon in a leap year, but nevertheless the notion that they are all there to see how much of the loot they can stuff in a sack and beat it home with…….
Well, if that’s truly what these people are doing in D.C. to the exclusion of all else, then we’ve already lost.
We can read DAXXIT...Crist has a history that is provgable and observable...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 5:05PM EDT (link)What the hell do you mean we don’t know Crist…I know he’s a tax and spender….I know his word means nothing because he promised not to raise taxes as Governor…and then turned around and did it anyway!
As to why we’re so pro Rubio…it’s as much or more about the arrogance of the NRSC stepping into a primary and endorsing a candidate before all the candidates have even had a chance to file as candidates! It’s about the fact that the NRSC did so despite the fact that the candidate they endorsed is anathema to the people who would be voting to elect him…
This is a Representative Republic….and we’re supposed to be electing people who represent us, our principles and our ideals…why in hell’s half acre are we allowing our Party and it’s apparatus force candidates on us who don’t represent us or what we believe…
I sware…this is mind numbing!
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Learn what 'hypocritical' means (nt)
Neil Stevens Tuesday, June 30th at 12:40PM EDT (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
" virtually guaranteed to keep a seat red"
Aaron Gardner Tuesday, June 30th at 12:46PM EDT (link)The problem is that Crist doesn’t intend to “keep a seat red”, no he intends to turn the seat Purple….whether he knows it or not.
That is what happens when you dilute the brand with his type.
Aaron’s Archive I
Aaron’s Archive II
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
The difference you're not seeing
Finrod Tuesday, June 30th at 1:17PM EDT (link)Kirk would be a purple Senator from a deep Blue state.
Crist would be a purple Senator from a Red state.
Kirk doesn’t have a credible primary opponent.
Crist does; he’s named Rubio. Latest poll amongst Republicans that recognize both, Crist’s lead is nominal: 33-31.
See the difference yet?
Finrod’s First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.
“So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late”
I don't call a 40% record on social, Fiscal and Gun Control issues a purple record...
AceInTX Friday, July 3rd at 11:03AM EDT (link)Kirk is a liberal and a Democrat in everything but name!
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What exactly can the Republican Party do to traitors like these?
nessa Monday, June 29th at 7:47PM EDT (link)Every post I’ve read here about rebuilding the party, Benedict Arlen, etc is filled with comments about being inclusive, having a big tent, they represent a liberal district etc.
Does the RNC have a process to deal with traitors? If an employee gets out of line there are HR and EEO processes the management follows. Verbal warning, written warning followed by suspension/termination; or in the case of the tr8tors cutting them off from all funding/support and or supporting an opponent in a primary and election. Do the republicans in the house or the RNC follow anything like this? If not why not?
The only way we can get them to do so is to cut off the money, hopefully Rep Sessions feels the pain through his announcement of the Patriot Program supporting two of the tr8tors here on the morning before the vote. Personally, if two of these disloyal pork chasing dirtbags made the Patriot Program list, their judgement is irrevocably damned in my eyes.
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Carthago Delenda Est leave no stone standing upon another, plow the streets and salt the earth so that nothing grows there again. –Cato (originally, EPU of late)
Contributor to The Minority Report
has anyone yet formed a PAC for their defeat?
kyle8 Monday, June 29th at 7:57PM EDT (link)I am ready to give to such a PAC
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
This does, again, reinforce the point to support Conservatives only...
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 8:27PM EDT (link)Through direct Contributions to Conservative Candidates and only very STRONG Conservative position 527’s. I plan on sticking with that strategy.
NOT ONE DIME (well, actually, only one dime to make the point - see: creating an NRSC: Daily Dimes Dichotomy
and RNC called, I hung up!). While Erick has spoken out about NOT holding the NRCC to the same standard, I disagree - I won’t donate to them either and will be sending the same Letter/Dime.
Support only directly to Conservatives Candidates and PACs, NO Republican Committees! But, yes, while I still want to leave that line of Communication open and give them “moral support” (dancing that, leave room toward working together line) and potentially some last minute cash if they do their campaigns right and tout the Conservative message we DEMAND of them!
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
JlenardDetroit
rushy Monday, June 29th at 10:54PM EDT (link)You’re exactly right on this!
On Saturday I sent a contribution to Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill). He had a contribution ticker going across the screen…looks like many of his contributions came from out of state! We MUST support conservative candidates from other districts/states!!
Erick said: All things being equal, I’m happy to support Kirk for Senate because I think he can win statewide and is at least 50% better than what’s there. I don’t want to chase windmills if I don’t have to and I’m not convinced someone of my liking can win in Illinois, if only because the Illinois GOP and the Democrats would both do the person in.
Sorry Erick, but I’m sick and tired of having to SETTLE for Moderates, Liberal R’s and RINO’s!! If you want to, go right ahead, but it’s these lowered expectations that have killed the Republican Party!
We should demand and expect conservatives and not cheap imitations! Again, lets get out their and support conservative candidates, even if they’re not in our districts or States!
Hey JL...I've been thinking on the dime strategy about a need to change it...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 12:24AM EDT (link)Lets send in a penny painted red and tell them not one red cent more!
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that works a little less
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 12:53AM EDT (link)1. we are NOT supposed to encourage people sending actual Cash/Coins through the mail
lol …. It is that actual COSTS associated with processing it or sending it back that helps us drive the point home because we drive up their costs… That will get their attention as it COSTS them campaign money rather than raises it.
2. it does NOT require them to send it back or post/process it (they can pretend to ignore it showed up and put it in a Need A Penny, Take A Penny dish
but your point is certainly valid, it does portray about the same point!
Daily Dimes Dichotomy - creating an NRSC: Daily Dimes Dichotomy
RNC called - RNC called, I hung up!
we need to irratate ALL the Official Republican Committees, IMO
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I guess my two cents were not worth-nt
DONTREADONME Tuesday, June 30th at 1:01AM EDT (link)Why do we have to form a PAC to fight them when our party should be doing that?
nessa Monday, June 29th at 8:29PM EDT (link)There are comments above this one asking for an explanation, I would love one from each member of the 8. There is a slim chance one of them may have an understandable excuse. I cannot for the life of me imagine what it would be but it’s not outside the realm of possibility. Then pain for those who do not have a reasonable reason for their treachery. Enough pain to make each and every Republican in the Nation say, “there but by the grace of God go I.”
Snowe and Collins are already lining up to support this in the Senate, why are they unafraid to betray us yet again? Obviously they didn’t pay a price for their earlier betrayals, an organization cannot be meaningful without some sort of standard. And those standards must be enforced.
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Carthago Delenda Est leave no stone standing upon another, plow the streets and salt the earth so that nothing grows there again. –Cato (originally, EPU of late)
Contributor to The Minority Report
Because In The End; They Don't Answer To You
Swamp_Yankee Monday, June 29th at 9:36PM EDT (link)They dont answer to party bosses; or to people who live a thousand miles away from them; or to people who do not share their values.
I love this country and it is a representative democracy. They often vote that way because they are a reflection of the people they represent. They is the way its suppose to be. That is their job. That’s is what the founders envisioned. Arm-chair politican pundits obsess with national issues from a national perspective, but that not how it really works.
Snowe and Collins did not betray “us”. The pretty much toe the line for the average Mainer. Susan Collins beat a popular Democrat in 2008 61.3%, to 38.6%
Mainers are mushy, quiet, go along get along types. The average Mainer cares more about the commerical fishing industry that cap and trade.
People dont vote to send people to represent them in Congrees that do not share their values. If you want more conservitive politicians, you have to change hearts and minds of the people fiirst.
They can all be a little more conservative. They can all do a better job using their positions of power to articulate conservative principles.
But it is far more treachorous for a poltician who actually represents conservative people to betray that trust. A pro-choice Republican is Texas? A pro-amnesty Republican in South Carolina? A tax and spend Republican Governor from Arkansas? Those pols actually represent conservative people and are betraying that trust.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
Mainers....
JLenardDetroit Monday, June 29th at 10:39PM EDT (link)They won’t wake up until some Democrat Enviro-Terrorist policies disrupt that “fishing” one way or another, like how another Liberal Schmuck recognizes, too late, Failed Democrat Enviro-Terrorist policies eventually will/do hurt them: Comedian Paul Rodreguiz’s Family Farm dying of Man-Made (read: Dem. Policy imposed) Drought and here.
If they truly didn’t care as much, the Twins could Vote NO and not be harmed by it. They need to make sure the Windmills don’t upset the Fish!!!!
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Horse feathers!!! They aren't representing...they're pretending...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 12:29AM EDT (link)They act one way to get elected and beclown themselves in office when noone is looking…
Go to Kirk’s web site for example…to read the thing you’d think he was Ronald Reagan incarnate…then go search his record…
and the Dems are worse…they talk about fiscal responsibility…they act like they’re main stream on abortion and family values to get elected…and then they drop their pants and party when noone is looking!
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With all due respect...we need Kirk in the Senate like Custer needed more indians at the Little Big Horn!
AceInTX Monday, June 29th at 11:49PM EDT (link)My post from a different thread:
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So who do we need, Ace?
Neil Stevens Tuesday, June 30th at 12:43AM EDT (link)Or do you just want the Democrats to run unopposed?
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
Who amongst RedStaters are going to step up?!?!
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 2:00AM EDT (link)Furthering Neils frustration…..
For those complaining about RINOs (AND I AM ONE OF THOSE FOLKS COMPLAINING ABOUT RINOS MANY TIMES) Who are our choices/alternatives? Who of you out there have NOT yet run for Office and when then can we expect you to step up?!?!?
Is a 40% Republican better than a 0% with us Democrat?!?!?!? Really, tell me! If NO, then you’re really willing to throw away that last 40% items? Guess we need to country in complete meltdown and collapse in the hopes we can pick up the pieces afterward.
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Just to clarify
Neil Stevens Tuesday, June 30th at 10:57AM EDT (link)My own post wasn’t a complaint against “RiNO hunting,” but merely a practical question about this particular race.
I have nothing against fighting in a primary, but I find it counterproductive to rally against a Republican without having an alternative to support in the primary.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
I can see that Neil...and it's a delema to be sure...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 11:09AM EDT (link)The only way I can answer that really is to say…ok…if you must….vote for the guy if he’s the only choice…but don’t back him…don’t actively support him…
or maybe…as painful as it might be…maybe it’s time to cull the herd…it’d weaken us in the short run…but make us stronger over the long haul…one thing’s for sure though…we can’t win if we are faced with Republicans giving the enemy the margin of victory in every battle and we darned sure won’t win if we promote our traitors…
I really don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that
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So you're saying you want the Democrat to win in Illinois? (nt)
Neil Stevens Tuesday, June 30th at 11:11AM EDT (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
No...but I don't want to support a quasi Democrat right out of the gate...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 3:58PM EDT (link)and I don’t want to actively support him simply because we can’t do any better.
One of the elements we keep missing in this debate is the damage these guys do us in purple states…We keep hearing about how we need to support blue candidates in blue states but there is never any discussion of how that damages the brand and keeps our turnout low in purple to red states…What do you say to someone who speaks to you in conservative terms on issues but when you try to convince them to vote Republican, they look to these guys and shrug it all off because the see no difference between the parties?
I mean…we lost the majority because we decided to play to blue state Republicans and abandoned Conservative principles not only on the social issues but more importantly on fiscal and small government conservatism…where do we draw the line with the Kirks, and Snowes and Collinses? how far is to far before we tell them to either straighten up or step aside for someone who walks the walk.
You want to know why I’m so all fired ticked about this? I was going to write on this before the vote but had a camping trip coming up for my boys and couldn’t get reddy and blog at the same time. Go to the RMSP web site and read the following which was written before this vote:
Pelosi Meets With GOP Moderates to Woo Support for Climate Bill
They’re bragging about Pelosi sucking up to them and buying their loyalty on this…I mean…if you’re gonna vote with the Dems on it that’s bad enough…but to toot your horn about your collaboration, plotting and scheming is beyond belief!
and why anyone would try to appologize for them is beyond me!
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There's no third way Ace
Neil Stevens Tuesday, June 30th at 5:06PM EDT (link)There are two candidates that are going to have any chance to win that seat. The Democrat and the Republican are going to be it.
So if you’re rooting for the Republican to lose, you are on the side of Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Daily Kos.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
Oh for pete's sake Neil...I never said anything about a third way...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 5:17PM EDT (link)and I said nothing about working to elect the Democrat…or hoping the Republican loses…first you’re putting words in my mouth…and second I suspect you’re trying to get me in trouble with Leon with that because I’m not advocating anything reflecting a third way in the way you’re implying it…
My issue with this…as it was with the Crist endorsement is having the Party and people in powerful positions short circuiting the process by throwing their weight behind a candidate that votes more with the Democrats than with the Republicans. Especially a day after said candidate has castrated the party on a vote like Cap and Trade!
What I am saying is … instead of wasting money and such trying to get someone elected that is against you 60% of the time in a blue state…wouldn’t your resources be better spent electing a candidate in another state who is with you at least 60% of the time in a Red to purple one??
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I'll take that as a retraction
Neil Stevens Tuesday, June 30th at 5:21PM EDT (link)I’ll take that as a retraction of this:
Thank you.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
retraction on what? nt
AceInTX Wednesday, July 1st at 4:09PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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On the bit I blockquoted
Neil Stevens Wednesday, July 1st at 4:29PM EDT (link)About ‘culling the herd’
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
I see what you're driving at.
AceInTX Wednesday, July 1st at 4:35PM EDT (link)I’m not advocating culling the herd per se…I can see the danger of that…while at the same time see how it could be necessary…I don’t like where I am on that by the way based on the Bible’s admonition that “a double minded man is unstable in all his ways”. but I can see both sides of that arguement and can’t make up my mind if and when I’d ever take one side of it or the other.
So, I am not retracting abything…nor am I advocating any thing…I stand by what I said and I’ll reiterate it here…I can’t see that there is anything to be gained by advancing a candidate from the House to the Senate who has a 40% voting record with the ACU, the CFG and a D rating with the NRA…Sure their vote will count toward giving the Senate control to the Republican Party…but what’s the point of gaining control if the people you put there to get it do everything the Democrats are doing anyway!
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I guess that's the long way around saying we need to run and support someone besides Kirk! nt
AceInTX Wednesday, July 1st at 4:36PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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Ace, I think this point is one that is often overlooked:
eburke Thursday, July 2nd at 3:27PM EDT (link)“One of the elements we keep missing in this debate is the damage these guys do us in purple states…”
and this:
“What do you say to someone who speaks to you in conservative terms on issues but when you try to convince them to vote Republican, they look to these guys and shrug it all off because the see no difference between the parties?”
I’ve *had* those conversations with ‘politically lazy’ friends of mine. You try to talk to them about how disastrous Dem policies will be and they will inevitably cite something they read/heard in the MSM about the Republicans being no different (because the media *always* makes sure that the Republican apostates get plenty of air time). I’ve had this happen w/regards to TARP (it’s why I think Norm Coleman ended up losing to the douchebag), and the bailout of GM & Chrysler (”well…I thought that started under Bush?”)
I believe that the place where people like Kirk hurt us the most is in the states where we need to clearest message: purple states where there is, by definition, a mixed political perspective, especially on economic issues. IMHO, people like Kirk may help us in State A, but often hurt us in states B, C, D & E.
“All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
“Dead fish go with the flow” ~ izoneguy
“We have a Statue of Liberty not a Statue of Necessity” ~ ColdWarrior
Therein is the rub...and I wish I had the answer...
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 11:04AM EDT (link)But at some point…we need to exert some party discipline…
How can you win an ideological war if you can’t present an ideology? I mean…come on already…Kirk deserts us on this and all the above that I mentioned…and we’re going to reward him by backing him for Senate?
Are you serious?
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If he is the GOP candidate, yes.
Bill S Tuesday, June 30th at 11:50AM EDT (link)we back him. That’s not a hard concept to understand…you support the guy who will do a better job than his opponent.
Decorum is fo’ suckas - unless it’s one of the good guys
and if the guy with the R behind his name would do us more damage than good? nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 4:40PM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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Name a situation where the Republican will have a worse voting record than the Democrat. One.
Bill S Tuesday, June 30th at 7:02PM EDT (link)Hint: you won’t be able to because you’ll be speculating. The odds are going to be with the GOP candidate, though.
Decorum is fo’ suckas - unless it’s one of the good guys
To take this back to the top (more or less)
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 7:26PM EDT (link)We’d all prefer a “better” (read: Much more Conservative) Candidate
… BUT….
An Election (especially a Primary) does NOT exist in a vacuum … Factors:
1. The State shading in National Post Elections (which is NOT necessarily the shame shading as its State Legislature makeup/shading - District positions versus State-wide vote electability positions)
1b. State composition (BLUE-ism)
2. Trending (Voting Psychology (Bandwagon and other effects))
3. Local/National “Issues” concerns which can vary from Election to Election
4. Misc. concerns and/or outside forces
4b. like ACORN, Liberal Judges managing to keep Dem districts open later, corruption, etc…. (Early- (and the new Late-) Voting trends)
5. Whether we’ve properly built a solid foundation for a Candidate ahead of time versus whether he/she can build (or make up that ground) from Primary to General (using Primaries to build up future candidates)
etc…
It is NOT just well, this is the one we RATE better as a Conservative.
And the biggest rub (differences of opinion) on these races are the different way we handicap the points above — especially, it seems, in FL! (BLUE-ism)
It is only because Erick (part of this convo is bleed from Ericks other diary: De Cap at
was talking about IL that he was willing to “accept” Kirk, not that he’s happy/estatic about him!!
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
Post = Federal positions (House/Senate/Prez)
JLenardDetroit Tuesday, June 30th at 7:31PM EDT (link)not Post in Following
Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (toss McCain)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
you present a false choice...
AceInTX Wednesday, July 1st at 4:24PM EDT (link)I can’t think of a single Democrat that’s better than any Republican per se…
My reference to doing us more harm than good pertains to our credibility and brand identification.
I believe there are instances where the party promoting a Kirk or Crist can hurt other candidates in other states much like promoting an unpopular or liberal presidential candidate can hurt other candidates down ballot buy taking unpopular stances or diluting the Conservative message of fiscal restraint, smaller, less intrusive government, traditional family values and a strong national defense.
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And letting a D win is going to hurt us less.
Bill S Thursday, July 2nd at 2:41PM EDT (link)Right.
Decorum is fo’ suckas - unless it’s one of the good guys
I didn't say that...but in some cases...yes...because by promoting a liberal Republican you destroy your credibility! nt
AceInTX Friday, July 3rd at 10:58AM EDT (link)I wish I had a dollar for every time I talk to someone who doesn’t vote who holds conservative views…and when you try to convince them the Republican Party is where they belong and they should vote and vote Republican, I am met with:
What do you tell them when they’re right? When the Party promotes Kirk, and Crist and fills up the leadership of the party with so many liberals that they can’t get anything done except forwarding the Democrat Agenda when they do get power!
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See my above on party discipline and making an example of a couple of these clowns...nt
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 11:12AM EDT (link)House Conservatives Fund
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We don't need people on our side setting fire to our own defenses
AceInTX Tuesday, June 30th at 11:02AM EDT (link)I can face the enemy a my front more effectively if I don’t have to worry about him in my rear.
You tell me Neil…What have we gained with these guys where they are…and what would we gain with Kirk in the Senate? Seems to me we’d lose far more since we’d be adding to the enemies in the Senate Caucus who are already there!
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I only wish they had taken video like these
ColdWarrior Thursday, July 2nd at 5:50PM EDT (link)as reported here at RedState when a few folks got together to attend a “town hall” meeting with their Debtocrat Party Rep. Tim Bishop in New York. We should be duplicating this kind of welcome for every congress-critter when they come back to their district for a “town hall” meeting. Hand written signs, chants, hard questions and then video straight to YouTube. Also, we need to create a “[Name of Congress-critter]Watch” type web site/blog that tracks what each of them are doing. (I hope someone already IS doing this.) These things are on my “to do” list and I’ll be meeting with some fellow precinct committeemen tonight to discuss them.
http://www.redstate.com/jacquesusa/2009/06/25/rep-tim-bishop-protest/
Here’s another post at Redstate.com that explains how the protest came about.
http://www.redstate.com/ireneny/2009/06/25/town-hall-meeting-with-tim-bishop-new-york-rep/
If you click on the last embedded link in the article (the embedding of the videos didn’t work very well), you can watch Part 2 of the video.
Checklist for protests:
Signs.
Bullhorns.
Cell phones.
Cameras.
Digital video recorders (I use a Flip Video) for fast upload to YouTube.
Pens and notebooks.
Beware the mainstream media types. They will try to pull a “Roesgen” on you. (Remember CNN’s Susan Roesgen in Chicago at the April 15 Tea Party? Those Tea Partiers turned the tables on her by taping HER and then getting it onto YouTube pronto. Go here to watch more: http://www.foundingbloggers.com/wordpress/2009/04/video-chicago-tea-party-in-depth-report-cnn-saga-and-all/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xWGvdRQ9Q )
Be ready with your digital video recorder. Record THEM recording you.
Thank you.
American first, conservative second, Republican precinct committeeman by necessity.
http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com, so you can say, “I became a precinct committeeman before it was cool.”
“[Primary e]lections have consequences, my friends.” — John McCain