Good!

bk

You’d think as a matter of principle that anyone even remotely conservative could not stand to vote for this given the abominable way it was handled and Rahmmed through.

E Pluribus Unum

somewhere there HAS to be room for “phone answerer in the office of one of the 8 Republicans who voted for Cap-n-Crap”.

Seriously, that poor lady.

JustLeaveMeAlone

Because to me, this seems incredibly naive and ineffectively, albeit well-intentioned.

Kirk wasn’t there — he was in DC. The poor staffer, Eric, was probably just thinking, oh jeez, let me placate these guys and let ‘em vent and get ‘em out of here.

Does anyone really believe Eric the staffer was swayed? Does anyone think this will make one iota of difference to Kirk?

I’m sorry — but I just don’t see it. These pols don’t need to be reasoned with. They need to be swatted, hard, with something painful. The only thing they appear to understand is being drummed out of office and kept from being elected to another.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

EXACTLY, standing on those principles alone — that Obama’s promise of FIVE DAYS REVIEW be made available — there was NO EXCUSE for any Republican to vote for this. If they zero confidence in their ability to defend a NO vote on those grounds alone, they should RESIGN NOW!!!!

snewb098

Bono Mack (CA) (home office) 760-323-8810 (DC) 202-225-5330
Castle (DE) (home office) 302-428-1902 (DC) 202-225-4165
Kirk (IL) (home office) 847-940-0202 (DC)202-225-4835
Lance (NJ) (home office) 908-518-7733 (DC)202-225-5361
Lobiondo (NJ) (home office) 609-625-5008 (DC) 202-225-6572
McHugh (NY) (home office) 315-782-3150 (DC)202-225-4611
Reichart (WA) (home office) 206 275-3438 (DC) 202-225-7761
Chris Smith (NJ) (home office) 609-585-7878 (DC)202-225-3765

Freedomlover

He says he’s a Republican but that’s as close as he gets to conservatism. He represents a very liberal tree hugging community. They keep on voting him in because he delivers. I’m sure the only reason he says he’s a Republican is because the Dem. candidate pools are spilling over. And, because of the Blago fiasco I believe he thinks he can get further political mileage as a Republican. Don’t be fooled if he gets the Senate or governorship, he will behave as a Democrat.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

and defending an occasional “off-base” vote… I CANNOT DO SO HERE! This is one, with the way this all went down, that I find hard to excuse and I want to hear directly from one of the Tr8ors how their YEA vote is defensible in any way, shape, or form!?!?! (More in Erick’s De Cap at 8… I’ve admitted being “too hard” on a few folks for not standing up for core Conservative values (mainly, unwillingness to go with harsher tone on ObamaFAIL message) and I will apologize and support them again later BUT ONLY IF I GET A REAL REASONED RESPONSE WHY I SHOULD THIS TIME!!!! Response from the Eight, not a advocate – from them directly how/why the Vote was the “best interest.”

E Pluribus Unum

In general , congress-critters are very insular. They get their impressions of what the world thinks from (a) their colleagues, (b) the evening news from the liberal press, and (c) their staff.

If the staff is feeling intense heat, and they are in this case, every minute the office is open for business, Mister Kirk is getting earfuls, and plenty of it, from his staff. Even if some or all of them is in favor of his vote.

It counts. Next time something like this comes up (like say, the reconciliation bill in the next month or whenever, after the Senate presumably passes it), his staff will be all up in his rear end telling him not to vote for it.

http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

Remember, there’s a placeholder that is Barney Frank’s responsibility to “fill in.”

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

good point Steph…. How do they agree with leaving Barney Frank an opportunity to advance ANYTHING?

They had zero reason (at least the Military Funding they could claim to not want to drag out, but that one was another one where there was little reason/excuse to vote for it when it had LESS to do with Military Funding than hiding other things in it to play politics with it while accusing us of doing so… laughable) to back down on this one. If they cannot go back to their District and explain that the jackACES Act was lacking all the things we speak of and then promote the Republican plan option, they should RESIGN IMMEDIATELY — we have a choice, we are NOT just the Party of NO we have/had a plan and should be pushing it.

It is getting more and more difficult for us to defend some of these folks for election/reelection based on their “location” and they need some slack…. And I find it interesting how some have “softened” (the way I see it) on some here while not budging in other discussions about “Electability discussions.” We all can/will have to, appearantly, pick and choose our own exceptions to the Conservatives ONLY rule we’d prefer.

http://web.mac.com/mayo99/iWeb/Site/VladBlog/VladBlog.html Vladimir

That’s all we’ll have to chase if this abomination passes.

How any self-style “conservative” could fail to see how horrible Waxman-Markey is is beyond me. Stop watching the Discovery Channel & use some common sense!

redloft

You are “happy” to support Kirk because “he can win statewide and is at least 50% better than what?s there,” but you actively campaign against Charlie Crist because he isn’t conservative enough for you. Sorry, but if you don’t think Crist is 50% better than Meek, you are clearly ignorant. And Rubio is a very weak candidate statewide–just look at the latest poll: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2009/06/another-poll-another-reminder-of-crist-lead-over-rubio.html

I hate to break the news to you, but an unknown, former State Rep from Miami, with a hard-line conservative ideology just cannont win in a general election in Florida, unless your last name is Bush.

I think it’s disingenuous to actively campaign against a candidate that is virtually guaranteed to keep a seat red, while supporting someone even less conservative with an outside chance to pick up a seat.

http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

nessa

Every post I’ve read here about rebuilding the party, Benedict Arlen, etc is filled with comments about being inclusive, having a big tent, they represent a liberal district etc.

Does the RNC have a process to deal with traitors? If an employee gets out of line there are HR and EEO processes the management follows. Verbal warning, written warning followed by suspension/termination; or in the case of the tr8tors cutting them off from all funding/support and or supporting an opponent in a primary and election. Do the republicans in the house or the RNC follow anything like this? If not why not?

The only way we can get them to do so is to cut off the money, hopefully Rep Sessions feels the pain through his announcement of the Patriot Program supporting two of the tr8tors here on the morning before the vote. Personally, if two of these disloyal pork chasing dirtbags made the Patriot Program list, their judgement is irrevocably damned in my eyes.

Dave_in_Fla

Sorry, but the Crist coronation isn’t going to happen, his support with the base is very weak and will hurt him in the general. Crist absolutely needs Rubio to win the general. If he isn’t made to fight for the nomination and reassure the GOP base, then he will be hurt by the weak support in heavy red districts. Brevard and the panhandle won’t go to the polls for Crist right now, and their house seats are safe. This will guarantee Sink wins.

I can strongly argue that Rubio has a better chance of winning the general because he can draw strong support from south Florida which otherwise will support Sink in high numbers.

Now whether of not the same can be said for Kirk is debatable, but Florida at least has a history of voting for Republicans. You can’t say that for Illinois.

http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

I am ready to give to such a PAC

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

I would have thought that Bono in CALIFORNIA being the easiest to “excuse” if any were to be, with all the Enviro-Terrorists out there… Had I, or a handful of others, suggested the exact same thing said in this Diary there would be 200 STOP SUPPORTING RINOs posts in about 5 seconds. We’ll see if they show and remain consistant and honest, or if they really do temper based on the name at the top of the Diary or Comment Post.

Again, I may otherwise be convinced by Erick or anyone else to relax my desire to NOT forgive/forget with these particular Eight (or ANY particular one or two of them)… But for right now I am beyond HEATED over these Tr8ors and see little excuse for this vote… The only “reason” is a “well it was going to pass the House anyway and I had to cover myself in my District” … We pick and choose who we let off with that depending on what?

We’re going to let the KIRK (IL) guy slide just because it is Obama’s home State? Again, enough prompting I can be persuaded, but I gotta hear a bit more of WHY? I, at least, gave 12 points [with additional links] why I was willing to make an exception!

http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

Throw the worthless M-F’er out! It is not that we need ideological purity. It is just that we need SOMETHING.

If we can’t count on our members to support the party on something as serious as this then we are really, literally better off with a democrat in the seat. At least then you can blame Democrats for what goes wrong, and you can work all out to get rid of them.

Why are the democrats so powerful, even when they are in the minority? Because they understand this.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

and if Rubio can indeed beat Crist to come out of the Primary nomination he might indeed be able to carry the State…. I think it all depends on whether the Primary can remain CIVIL – or either Candidate may come out so damaged as to LOSE TO THE DEMOCRAT!

Rubio losing to Crist (and Crist needs to see the reminder at the bottom of this post) could/should, if the campaign is done in the right fashion (using Primaries to build up future candidates) can set him up as the FAVORITE for the other Senate seat in FL (that is my hope/desire, anyway) — or are others going to try and place-holder that one for Jeb?!?!? (see: Conservative Candidates (the Diary) — many have thought them both okay as Governor but have had issues with them, I know I sure have – both of them – but the Senate seat is now “different.”) Again, to leave no ambiguity, I’d prefer to see Rubio get this one but do NOT want any chance of it going to the Democrats – so who gets this first seat and the other the next one I’m not gonna quibble about!

Crist/Rubio 12 points [with links]

BUT THIS DIARY IS NOT ABOUT CRIST/RUBIO or is it impossible to avoid the lists of who is willing to back the one but not the other ?!?!?

That reminder:

[from Conservative Candidates (the Diary)]
the “Republican Revolution” of the 90′s was mis-labeled, it was really the “CONSERVATIVE Revolution” and it brought Republicans to power; likewise, it was the “Reagan Conservative” Revolution, not a Republican Revolution. Many Republicans forgot that along the way. That led the way for CINO Democrats to lie their way back into power, but it was a “Conservative” co-opted (read: they lied about their intent) that voters allowed themselves to be duped into. Republicans need to REMEMBER that! Conservatism did NOT lose Elections, bad Politicians (with R’s beside their name) did!

…and…

Daniel Hannan (British MEP) – mbecker’s: What ~~the Leader of~~ ANY IN the Republican Party should sound like! Productive vs non-Productive sectors of the Economy same here as in UK.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

Through direct Contributions to Conservative Candidates and only very STRONG Conservative position 527′s. I plan on sticking with that strategy.

NOT ONE DIME (well, actually, only one dime to make the point – see: creating an NRSC: Daily Dimes Dichotomy
and RNC called, I hung up!). While Erick has spoken out about NOT holding the NRCC to the same standard, I disagree – I won’t donate to them either and will be sending the same Letter/Dime.

Support only directly to Conservatives Candidates and PACs, NO Republican Committees! But, yes, while I still want to leave that line of Communication open and give them “moral support” (dancing that, leave room toward working together line) and potentially some last minute cash if they do their campaigns right and tout the Conservative message we DEMAND of them!

nessa

There are comments above this one asking for an explanation, I would love one from each member of the 8. There is a slim chance one of them may have an understandable excuse. I cannot for the life of me imagine what it would be but it’s not outside the realm of possibility. Then pain for those who do not have a reasonable reason for their treachery. Enough pain to make each and every Republican in the Nation say, ?there but by the grace of God go I.?

Snowe and Collins are already lining up to support this in the Senate, why are they unafraid to betray us yet again? Obviously they didn?t pay a price for their earlier betrayals, an organization cannot be meaningful without some sort of standard. And those standards must be enforced.

Freedomlover

that these 8 Rhinos for their own personal reasons have turned this life altering bill for EVERY American into a bipartisan fiasco. It probably would have passed anyway, but, they have now given more fuel to the Democrats who did not vote for it, to win in the next election.

Any Democrat up for election in 2010 will not have Obama’s coattails to carry them. If these 8 had voted No, Nancy would have needed more vulnerable Democrats to vote for it. Which could have
jeopardized their reelections. And, as dutiful little soldiers, they would have followed orders. But, since we had the turncoat 8, they didn’t have to take that risk.

Liberals may be vile, but they’re skillful politicians. They’re not as stupid as some voters.

redloft

into this was to question the logic used by Erick. If he is willing to support a purple candidate who might be able to win in a tough state, then he should at the very least, stop actively campaigning against a moderate that will win in a must-win state.

And to the point that Crist needs Rubio, I respectfully disagree. Crist has a huge crossover appeal and being forced to move to the right is unnecessary in a campaign against Meek. You aren’t giving Crist’s popularity among moderates and liberals enough merit-they will turn out on election day. What is really needed is a good primary for McCollum (Dockery?) that will energize the base to turn out against Sink and then let Crist bring the middle over to our side.

At the end of the day, I’m glad Erick is supporting Kirk.

randy streu

That’s the difference.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

while we may not always agree! Though, in this case we do!!! As you said…

If we can?t count on our members to support the party on something as serious as this then we are really, literally better off with a democrat in the seat. At least then you can blame Democrats for what goes wrong, and you can work all out to get rid of them.

many think that same thing with Republican’s wishy-washy-ness re: the Porkulus thing too which gives one of the rubs with Crist.

We should not take the grief we all do, at times, for our positions. We just gotta allow the disagreements and leave them at that.

Swamp_Yankee

They dont answer to party bosses; or to people who live a thousand miles away from them; or to people who do not share their values.

I love this country and it is a representative democracy. They often vote that way because they are a reflection of the people they represent. They is the way its suppose to be. That is their job. That’s is what the founders envisioned. Arm-chair politican pundits obsess with national issues from a national perspective, but that not how it really works.

Snowe and Collins did not betray “us”. The pretty much toe the line for the average Mainer. Susan Collins beat a popular Democrat in 2008 61.3%, to 38.6%

Mainers are mushy, quiet, go along get along types. The average Mainer cares more about the commerical fishing industry that cap and trade.

People dont vote to send people to represent them in Congrees that do not share their values. If you want more conservitive politicians, you have to change hearts and minds of the people fiirst.

They can all be a little more conservative. They can all do a better job using their positions of power to articulate conservative principles.

But it is far more treachorous for a poltician who actually represents conservative people to betray that trust. A pro-choice Republican is Texas? A pro-amnesty Republican in South Carolina? A tax and spend Republican Governor from Arkansas? Those pols actually represent conservative people and are betraying that trust.

redloft

Crist wins the seat easily. I guess some are willing to risk losing a Republican seat but I would prefer take a win and focus on other races. We cannot risk give the Democrats that 60th vote. That would be a total disaster….

randy streu

Crist is too liberal to do us any damned good anyway. Who cares if he saves us from dealing with 60 Dem. seats if he just votes with them anyway, when it counts?

I’m not going to take this any further, out of respect for the original post. This particular discussion has been played out probably 30 different times. Suffice to say, I don’t buy it.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

Mainers are mushy, quiet, go along get along types. The average Mainer cares more about the commerical fishing industry that cap and trade.

They won’t wake up until some Democrat Enviro-Terrorist policies disrupt that “fishing” one way or another, like how another Liberal Schmuck recognizes, too late, Failed Democrat Enviro-Terrorist policies eventually will/do hurt them: Comedian Paul Rodreguiz’s Family Farm dying of Man-Made (read: Dem. Policy imposed) Drought and here.

If they truly didn’t care as much, the Twins could Vote NO and not be harmed by it. They need to make sure the Windmills don’t upset the Fish!!!!

George Claghorn

..it’s just as helpful to us as giving the Democrats another vote. Crist is a RINO of the highest magnitude.

rushy

You’re exactly right on this!

On Saturday I sent a contribution to Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill). He had a contribution ticker going across the screen…looks like many of his contributions came from out of state! We MUST support conservative candidates from other districts/states!!

Erick said: All things being equal, I?m happy to support Kirk for Senate because I think he can win statewide and is at least 50% better than what?s there. I don?t want to chase windmills if I don?t have to and I?m not convinced someone of my liking can win in Illinois, if only because the Illinois GOP and the Democrats would both do the person in.

Sorry Erick, but I’m sick and tired of having to SETTLE for Moderates, Liberal R’s and RINO’s!! If you want to, go right ahead, but it’s these lowered expectations that have killed the Republican Party!

We should demand and expect conservatives and not cheap imitations! Again, lets get out their and support conservative candidates, even if they’re not in our districts or States!

AceInTX

My post from a different thread:

Kirk has a history as do the rest of these clowns?that?s what?s so frustrating because you and others act surprised because they reverted to form on this vote?there is nothing new here aside from the fact that it was you that finally got hit with cold water!

He?s an Enviro Wacko and always has been?he couldn?t vote any other way without betraying who he is?and betraying the principles he holds dear?(which I might add, We?re not supposed to have principles for the sake of the tent!)

He brags on his website with links calling him the ?Greenest Republican in Congress?, He?s a consistent vote against ANWR and opening up proven oil reserves in the USA. he voted for the prescription drug benefit program, funneled billions of federal pork to build up public transit in his district,

From On the Issues:

Voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (May 2008)

Voted YES on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008)

Voted YES on investing in homegrown biofuel. (Aug 2007)

Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jan 2007)

Voted YES on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore. (Jun 2006)

Voted YES on scheduling permitting for new oil refinieries. (Jun 2006)

Voted YES on authorizing construction of new oil refineries. (Oct 2005)

Voted NO on passage of the Bush Administration national energy policy. (Jun 2004)

Voted NO on implementing Bush-Cheney national energy policy. (Nov 2003)

Voted YES on raising CAFE standards; incentives for alternative fuels. (Aug 2001)

Voted YES on prohibiting oil drilling & development in ANWR. (Aug 2001)

In short, He?s an Al Gore type of Enviro NUT!!!

Kirk is a member of the RMSP and is one of the very people I spend so much time railing against!

He is co-chair of the Moderate Republican ?Tuesday Group?, Which is a group of Republicrats who meet every week to plan their collaboration with the Dummycrats>

Kirk is also a member most liberal Republican groups such as the Republican Majority for Choice, Republicans for Choice, the Republican Leadership Council, and Republicans for Environmental Protection?.

He?s busy right now helping to shape an Obama light version of socialized medicine.

He scores a 42% in 2008 and 32% in 2007 with the Club for Growth.

He has an ACU lifetime rating of 55% with his numbers in 2008 being 48% in an election year?and 40% in 2007 a non election year?

He has a D rating with the NRA on Gun control issues. He?s favored extending the Brady bill, closing the ?gun show Loophole? backed federal laws requiring trigger locks and opposed protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits.

He backed Campaign Finance Reform.

He has a pushed for federal spending programs on stem cell research and co-sponsored three bills in support of international family planning, H.R. 755, H.R. 1117 and H.R. 3916 and was named ?Legislator of the Month? by The Population Institute for April 2002.

He supports Increased funding, (with US Tax Dollars) for international HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment, increased family planning funding for the United Nations Population Fund!

He voted no on prohibiting minors from being transported across state lines to receive abortions.

Voted no on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime.

Has a 100% rating from the Abortion Rights Action League making him a Ted Kennedy kind of Republican!

Favors Hate Crimes legislation

I could go on and on?my only question about this guy is?what makes hi9m a Republican in the first place?

AceInTX

The first thing that popped into my head when I heard there were 8 was…”how many are in the RMSP”?

the answer is 6 out of 8…

and Kirk is the worse of the bunch on this…He’s not only an RMSPer…he’s co-Chair of the Tuesday group and a member of Republicans for Choice, the Republican Majority for Choice, Republicans for Environmental protection and the Republican Leadership Council. The only liberal Republican Organizations I can think of that he may not be involved with would be The RIPON Society and the Log Cabin Republicans.

I won’t go down the list I did in the other thread but will repeat his scores with the ACU, the CFG and the NRA:

He scores a 42% in 2008 and 32% in 2007 with the Club for Growth.

He has an ACU lifetime rating of 55% with his numbers in 2008 being 48% in an election year?and 40% in 2007 a non election year?

He has a D rating with the NRA on Gun control issues. He?s favored extending the Brady bill, closing the ?gun show Loophole? backed federal laws requiring trigger locks and opposed protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits.

AceInTX

there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference!

AceInTX

Lets send in a penny painted red and tell them not one red cent more!

AceInTX

They act one way to get elected and beclown themselves in office when noone is looking…

Go to Kirk’s web site for example…to read the thing you’d think he was Ronald Reagan incarnate…then go search his record…

and the Dems are worse…they talk about fiscal responsibility…they act like they’re main stream on abortion and family values to get elected…and then they drop their pants and party when noone is looking!

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

“I like him.. he’s silly” lol

But again, in this case… I DO want these bums punished/tossed! Waiting on someone to give us good reasons otherwise!?!?!? If we can FORGIVE(but not forget) Kirk then that should also apply to others in other races…. Many of us, including me, were willing to “over-look” some Liberal compromises out of Mitt, Mike, and/or Rudy in the name of having a Republican President! While others, as Governor, don’t get same consideration for “Tax compromises” – granted, some time passed for them before the Presidential run.

AceInTX

they’ve managed to gore almost every one of mine before this!

DONTREADONME

or maybe this is a question, what should be the unifying factor for the Republican party?

I am the point now where I have decided that I would love to see these guys walk, but darn it Zero is so dangerous now to this country I have to accept everyone that will help in turning back all of the damage that has occured since January of 2007.

That said, all I want is to turn back the size of Government now, fire all of the insourcing that has started to replace my job in the DoD, (yes, I have personal stake in this now), never allow this Cap and Trade thing go through, no Public Health Care option, reverse all of the new programs that were insitituted as a result of the Porkulus, Porkubus etc. The Government needs a slash job to the rank and file, either that or everyone needs to take a pay cut.

So, any Republican that is willing to stop all of this garbage is on board as far as I am concerned. If you voted for the Cap and Trade, I wonder whether you are for smaller government. That said, I have sacrificed all of the other pillars of my conservatism to undo the damage that is occuring. Is that compromise fair?

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

does indeed hardly make him better than Burris is the point/question? I hope we don’t have to be that desperate in IL, we can have a Candidate that is decidedly further Right than that!

BUT WHO?!?!?

But come election day: How electing ANY Democrat empowers the antithesis of Conservativism, the Ultra-Far-Left Progressive/Socialist/Democrats — I hate to say the best reason to vote for someone is who they will Caucus with, but…..

I DO NOT like being put in these positions, but if/when it comes down to that. Do we need to go into the “how AltParty is RINOism – can one catch RINOvirus?” discussion again about if we are to be as bad as those we criticise?!?! We’ve both covered our frustration on that, but I still insist there are others that will sit-out or go 3rd — not ALL peoples are represented in our discussions here (but my high respect/regards to kyle for his honest admissions on the topics).

Somebody please come up with a reasonable Candidate for IL!!!!

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Or do you just want the Democrats to run unopposed?

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

1. we are NOT supposed to encourage people sending actual Cash/Coins through the mail
2. it does NOT require them to send it back or post/process it (they can pretend to ignore it showed up and put it in a Need A Penny, Take A Penny dish lol …. It is that actual COSTS associated with processing it or sending it back that helps us drive the point home because we drive up their costs… That will get their attention as it COSTS them campaign money rather than raises it.

but your point is certainly valid, it does portray about the same point!

Daily Dimes Dichotomy – creating an NRSC: Daily Dimes Dichotomy
RNC called – RNC called, I hung up!

we need to irratate ALL the Official Republican Committees, IMO

DONTREADONME

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

it might imply to some that I accept some ObamAgenda … I DO NOT! Nor did I approve of all of Bush 43 antics…..

Bushes failure to Veto Budgets
Irked with Medicare-D
and Amnesty
I was NOT happy with TARP
Nor Porkulus
Nor CapNTr8ors
etc…..

No Child Left Behind
HSA (which could’ve reduced some Govt as we folded agencies in)

etc… etc… etc….

They’ve gored alot of Oxes over long periods of times… Just got little viable alternatives…. GIVE US SOME DARN ALTERNATIVES PEOPLE!!!!
Conservative Candidates (the Diary)

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

Are there NO real Conservatives left in most of the country? Really, why should we bother then?

Uggggghhhhh!!!!

There is NO ALTERNATE PARTY that will amount to anything so we are stuck within the Republican Party….

[from Conservative Candidates (the Diary)]
the “Republican Revolution” of the 90′s was mis-labeled, it was really the “CONSERVATIVE Revolution” and it brought Republicans to power; likewise, it was the “Reagan Conservative” Revolution, not a Republican Revolution. Many Republicans forgot that along the way. That led the way for CINO Democrats to lie their way back into power, but it was a “Conservative” co-opted (read: they lied about their intent) that voters allowed themselves to be duped into. Republicans need to REMEMBER that! Conservatism did NOT lose Elections, bad Politicians (with R’s beside their name) did! AND real Conservatives are NOT going to get back into power without completely wrestling control of the Republican Party.

For those complaining about RINOs (AND I AM ONE OF THOSE FOLKS COMPLAINING ABOUT RINOS MANY TIMES) Who are our choices/alternatives? Who of you out there have NOT yet run for Office and when then can we expect you to step up?!?!?

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

Furthering Neils frustration…..

For those complaining about RINOs (AND I AM ONE OF THOSE FOLKS COMPLAINING ABOUT RINOS MANY TIMES) Who are our choices/alternatives? Who of you out there have NOT yet run for Office and when then can we expect you to step up?!?!?

Is a 40% Republican better than a 0% with us Democrat?!?!?!? Really, tell me! If NO, then you’re really willing to throw away that last 40% items? Guess we need to country in complete meltdown and collapse in the hopes we can pick up the pieces afterward.

Brian Hibbert

This is primary season. This is the time to fight ideological battles within a party. I think we should keep Mark Kirk in his current house seat, but to have him in the Senate mean we have another permanent squishy vote in the Senate. It’s time to stop that trend and support someone a bit more conservative in the primary.

Unfortunately, Kirk is the only significant name I’ve heard for IL Senate on the GOP side so far. I was hoping Dan Rutherford would run, but the noises I’m hearing are that he’s going to run for an unspecified statewide position in the Illinois government (he ran for Secretary of State in 06).

I won’t be giving any money to Kirk. I’ll vote for someone else in the primary. If he wins the primary, I’ll vote for him and maybe even talk him up when I knock doors for other candidates. But I won’t like it.

George Claghorn

AceInTX

but why this upsets you more than Specter, Snow and Collins voting for Porculous, or the NRSC endorsing a tax and spend social liberal for Senate in Florida is beyond me…you’ve been one of the chief apologists around here for these RINOs.

I’m not saying that’s all bad…and I’m glad you get it at least on this one bill…but you have to understand where I’m coming from…this is nothing new for these eight…and there are more of their kind who will rear their ugly heads on other issues…I just hope you’ll remember this when they do!

AceInTX

That’s what burns me about the big tent crowd…We need to make this party stand for something or we might as well make Obama Emperor and have done with it…

It’s not about one issue…it’s about a powerful minority in this party that pulls all the strings that not only go along once in a while with the Democrats…but actively collaborate with them in the destruction of every principle and ideal that has made this country great.

randy streu

“Who of you out there have NOT yet run for Office and when then can we expect you to step up?!?!?”

So, what, you have to run for office or STFU? That’s just dumb. Not everybody is destined to be a politician. I think to a very large extent you equate pointing out the problem as simple whining. Couldn’t be more wrong. Sometime’s a person’s function IS to point out the problem. And, absolutely, that person can/should also actively support those who actually espouse the values he is preaching. But not everyone is a born leader, and the suggestion that they step into a leadership role, especially on the political field, or forfeit their right to point out the issues is woefully lacking in reality.

Martin Knight

What’s the point of electing a Republican only to watch him vote time and time again with the other side? That’s the type of Republican Crist is promising to be – another Lincoln Chafee. And worse, he’ll be giving the Democratic majority “Bipartisan” cover for their agenda.

If Crist wins the Primary, I’ll support him … but that’s just me being a team player – something most GOP “moderates” seem to have a major problem with. I get this feeling that if Crist loses to Rubio, he’ll follow the moderate playbook (i.e. Schwarz, Gilchrest, Leach, etc.) and endorse Sink.

Ultimately, this far from election day, I’d rather not fall behind someone who gives every indication of intending to be a reliable Republican vote for Obama’s Far Left agenda in the Senate. I’m already pretty certain that come 2012, Crist would be at the Democratic Convention giving a keynote speech endorsing Obama.

I have no such concerns with Rubio.

PS: The Democratic Establishment in 2006 backed State Treasurer Jon Morrison to challenge Conrad Burns in MT. The Democratic base backed Jon Tester. How’d that turn out? Hint: Tester is currently the serving junior Senator from Montana.

The Democrats have learned to listen to their base and it has paid off – they have it right. The idea that the GOP can prosper by ignoring, or worse, sticking its finger in the collective eyes of its most loyal supporters was the entire basis of the disaster that was the McCain 2008 Campaign.

We need to re-examine that approach.

AceInTX

In war…it is never good to have the enemy in your ranks…You can better fight the battle with a smaller, more united unit than you can when you have battles breaking out between your own men in the battlements during the heat of battle…let alone when you have to contend with your own people opening the gates to the enemy…

This is where we are…We need to enforce some kind of discipline in this…As desperate as things were for Washington during the days at Valley Forge….and as disparate as he was for fighting men…he still had to execute a number of deserters as an example to the rest of the continental army!

Maybe a few of these RINO heads need to fist of all to get rid of the enemy in our ranks…and to serve as an example to the rest of the potential deserters so we don’t lose even more of the to desertion in the long run!

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

My own post wasn’t a complaint against “RiNO hunting,” but merely a practical question about this particular race.

I have nothing against fighting in a primary, but I find it counterproductive to rally against a Republican without having an alternative to support in the primary.

redloft

Crist and Meek. We need to look at the bigger picture.

AceInTX

I can face the enemy a my front more effectively if I don’t have to worry about him in my rear.

You tell me Neil…What have we gained with these guys where they are…and what would we gain with Kirk in the Senate? Seems to me we’d lose far more since we’d be adding to the enemies in the Senate Caucus who are already there!

AceInTX

But at some point…we need to exert some party discipline…

How can you win an ideological war if you can’t present an ideology? I mean…come on already…Kirk deserts us on this and all the above that I mentioned…and we’re going to reward him by backing him for Senate?

Are you serious?

redloft

First, I think you all are off the mark on how he will vote in the Senate. True, he isn’t going to be a Coburn or DeMint up there, but he is going to be a reliable Republican. He will fight to lower federal spending and taxes–he will be good on our core issues. But, once the money is ready to go, Crist will be willing to get in there and bring it home to his constituents. That’s what these guys get elected to do.

I’ve said this in the past-just look at Crist’s poltical mentor, Sen. Mack. Connie was able to be a conservative while at the same time being pragmatic when he needed it. Crist will try and do the same thing. I think the irrational exuberance for Rubio byr many folks on this site is misguided. I don’t know why people are trying to push a young, conservative Republican with a bright future into a fight he can’t win. I think it’s a disservice to Rubio.

AceInTX

The only way I can answer that really is to say…ok…if you must….vote for the guy if he’s the only choice…but don’t back him…don’t actively support him…

or maybe…as painful as it might be…maybe it’s time to cull the herd…it’d weaken us in the short run…but make us stronger over the long haul…one thing’s for sure though…we can’t win if we are faced with Republicans giving the enemy the margin of victory in every battle and we darned sure won’t win if we promote our traitors…

I really don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

AceInTX

randy streu

Losers bow out before the fight has started, just because it looks “hard.”

Who the hell cares if it’s not an easy fight?

bs

we back him. That’s not a hard concept to understand…you support the guy who will do a better job than his opponent.

redloft

Rubio has a future in our party and I don’t like seeing him waste his time and tarnish his image—and put in jeaporday a seat that we must-win. The Republican Party in Florida has two strong candidates running statewide–Crist and Putnam (for Ag Commish) and we need to field our best team. Rubio should run for Atty Gen or Gov.

http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

we don’t need another one like him stinking up the congress.

randy streu

what’s the point in putting in a RINO who will turn his back when he’s needed?

randy streu

This is a fight Crist started, when he decided that he would run his “moderate” butt against a Conservative.

Martin Knight

I think it’s you who doesn’t know Crist.

Crist stood with the Democrats in Florida to fight against the Rubio led GOP majority in the FL State Legislature when they wanted to cut taxes in the 2007-2008 session. He just signed a budget, that he pushed for, that raised taxes on the people of Florida.

Crist stood with Obama to urge the passage of the Spendulus and somehow, we’re supposed to believe that he’s going to be a force for lower spending? Something he has not done in Florida despite strong Republican Majorities in both the FL House and Senate?

This is a man who is actually proud that Obama called him his “favorite Republican” and we’re supposed to believe that he is going to be a loyal soldier, and “good on our core issues” when it counts – when he has proven already that he would do anything but? Are you seriously asking us to believe you over our “lying eyes?”

And as for your insistence that Rubio “can’t” win, that attitude encapsulates the mindset of the so-called “moderate Republican”; you are losers. I am yet to see a “moderate Democrat” get up and label another Democrat as being “too far to the Left” or declaring that this or that Democrat “can’t” win. Has it ever occurred to you that Kendrick Meek is “too far to the Left”? That *he* can’t win?

Martin Knight

Show me something, anything, that indicates that Crist would not be a Chafee if he gets into the Senate … because he seems to respond with “How high?” when Obama says “Jump!”

Aaron Gardner

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

janis

exactly what’s wrong with our political system today. “That’s what these guys get elected to do.” When I vote for a senator who’s going to D.C. from my state, I don’t vote for the one who’s going to bring home the most pork. I vote for the one who I believe will help pass laws to implement the Constitution. Granted, that happens every blue moon in a leap year, but nevertheless the notion that they are all there to see how much of the loot they can stuff in a sack and beat it home with…….

Well, if that’s truly what these people are doing in D.C. to the exclusion of all else, then we’ve already lost.

Aaron Gardner

The problem is that Crist doesn’t intend to “keep a seat red”, no he intends to turn the seat Purple….whether he knows it or not.

That is what happens when you dilute the brand with his type.

Finrod

Kirk would be a purple Senator from a deep Blue state.

Crist would be a purple Senator from a Red state.

Kirk doesn’t have a credible primary opponent.

Crist does; he’s named Rubio. Latest poll amongst Republicans that recognize both, Crist’s lead is nominal: 33-31.

See the difference yet?

The_Gadfly

not as much as blue to red, but it does help (and I’m usually one of the louder folks on the ‘Why can’t we have open season on RINOs with no bag limit’ threads).

Erick believes Florida is Red, so there’s no need to move Red to Purple, while the Kirk seat is Blue and would move to Purple. And that’s the essential question: Is Florida Red?

As I stated once before, my preference is Rubio, but my biggest problem was that the RNC and its affiliates backed Crist before the primary. If they stayed neutral in the primary and only insisted on a clean campaign I’d be okay.

AceInTX

and I don’t want to actively support him simply because we can’t do any better.

One of the elements we keep missing in this debate is the damage these guys do us in purple states…We keep hearing about how we need to support blue candidates in blue states but there is never any discussion of how that damages the brand and keeps our turnout low in purple to red states…What do you say to someone who speaks to you in conservative terms on issues but when you try to convince them to vote Republican, they look to these guys and shrug it all off because the see no difference between the parties?

I mean…we lost the majority because we decided to play to blue state Republicans and abandoned Conservative principles not only on the social issues but more importantly on fiscal and small government conservatism…where do we draw the line with the Kirks, and Snowes and Collinses? how far is to far before we tell them to either straighten up or step aside for someone who walks the walk.

You want to know why I’m so all fired ticked about this? I was going to write on this before the vote but had a camping trip coming up for my boys and couldn’t get reddy and blog at the same time. Go to the RMSP web site and read the following which was written before this vote:

Pelosi Meets With GOP Moderates to Woo Support for Climate Bill

They’re bragging about Pelosi sucking up to them and buying their loyalty on this…I mean…if you’re gonna vote with the Dems on it that’s bad enough…but to toot your horn about your collaboration, plotting and scheming is beyond belief!

and why anyone would try to appologize for them is beyond me!

AceInTX

I’ve had my fill of the, “WE HAVE TO BACK THE GUY WHO CAN WIN NO MATTER WHAT HE STANDS FOR” FOOLISHNESS…

AceInTX

You make no sense man…Kirk is a liberal…he has a liberal voting record…how does he help us except by making us feel good on election night because we picked up a seat…how does that help us when the rubber meets the road…and it’s time for the Republican PArty to govern again and we can’t because we have a bunch of liberals in the caucus who wont let the party do what it says it stands for?!

Swamp_Yankee

and the way we should adress these issues.

AceInTX

We keep hearing we have to vote for the moderate/liberal Republican because he’s the only guy that can win…when there is no proof the other guy can’t win…it’s a game I’ve watched being played for 20 years now…and I’m sick of it…

How do you win elections when your leadership starts out from ground zero with the idea in their head that every issue you stand for as a party is a loser from the start?

AceInTX

What the hell do you mean we don’t know Crist…I know he’s a tax and spender….I know his word means nothing because he promised not to raise taxes as Governor…and then turned around and did it anyway!

As to why we’re so pro Rubio…it’s as much or more about the arrogance of the NRSC stepping into a primary and endorsing a candidate before all the candidates have even had a chance to file as candidates! It’s about the fact that the NRSC did so despite the fact that the candidate they endorsed is anathema to the people who would be voting to elect him…

This is a Representative Republic….and we’re supposed to be electing people who represent us, our principles and our ideals…why in hell’s half acre are we allowing our Party and it’s apparatus force candidates on us who don’t represent us or what we believe…

I sware…this is mind numbing!

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

There are two candidates that are going to have any chance to win that seat. The Democrat and the Republican are going to be it.

So if you’re rooting for the Republican to lose, you are on the side of Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Daily Kos.

AceInTX

and I said nothing about working to elect the Democrat…or hoping the Republican loses…first you’re putting words in my mouth…and second I suspect you’re trying to get me in trouble with Leon with that because I’m not advocating anything reflecting a third way in the way you’re implying it…

My issue with this…as it was with the Crist endorsement is having the Party and people in powerful positions short circuiting the process by throwing their weight behind a candidate that votes more with the Democrats than with the Republicans. Especially a day after said candidate has castrated the party on a vote like Cap and Trade!

What I am saying is … instead of wasting money and such trying to get someone elected that is against you 60% of the time in a blue state…wouldn’t your resources be better spent electing a candidate in another state who is with you at least 60% of the time in a Red to purple one??

AceInTX

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I’ll take that as a retraction of this:

or maybe?as painful as it might be?maybe it?s time to cull the herd?it?d weaken us in the short run?but make us stronger over the long haul?one thing?s for sure though?we can?t win if we are faced with Republicans giving the enemy the margin of victory in every battle and we darned sure won?t win if we promote our traitors?

Thank you.

AceInTX

bs

Hint: you won’t be able to because you’ll be speculating. The odds are going to be with the GOP candidate, though.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

We’d all prefer a “better” (read: Much more Conservative) Candidate

… BUT….

An Election (especially a Primary) does NOT exist in a vacuum … Factors:
1. The State shading in National Post Elections (which is NOT necessarily the shame shading as its State Legislature makeup/shading – District positions versus State-wide vote electability positions)
1b. State composition (BLUE-ism)
2. Trending (Voting Psychology (Bandwagon and other effects))
3. Local/National “Issues” concerns which can vary from Election to Election
4. Misc. concerns and/or outside forces
4b. like ACORN, Liberal Judges managing to keep Dem districts open later, corruption, etc…. (Early- (and the new Late-) Voting trends)
5. Whether we’ve properly built a solid foundation for a Candidate ahead of time versus whether he/she can build (or make up that ground) from Primary to General (using Primaries to build up future candidates)
etc…

It is NOT just well, this is the one we RATE better as a Conservative.

And the biggest rub (differences of opinion) on these races are the different way we handicap the points above — especially, it seems, in FL! (BLUE-ism)

It is only because Erick (part of this convo is bleed from Ericks other diary: De Cap at 8) was talking about IL that he was willing to “accept” Kirk, not that he’s happy/estatic about him!!

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

not Post in Following

AceInTX

I can’t think of a single Democrat that’s better than any Republican per se…

My reference to doing us more harm than good pertains to our credibility and brand identification.

I believe there are instances where the party promoting a Kirk or Crist can hurt other candidates in other states much like promoting an unpopular or liberal presidential candidate can hurt other candidates down ballot buy taking unpopular stances or diluting the Conservative message of fiscal restraint, smaller, less intrusive government, traditional family values and a strong national defense.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

About ‘culling the herd’

AceInTX

I’m not advocating culling the herd per se…I can see the danger of that…while at the same time see how it could be necessary…I don’t like where I am on that by the way based on the Bible’s admonition that “a double minded man is unstable in all his ways”. but I can see both sides of that arguement and can’t make up my mind if and when I’d ever take one side of it or the other.

So, I am not retracting abything…nor am I advocating any thing…I stand by what I said and I’ll reiterate it here…I can’t see that there is anything to be gained by advancing a candidate from the House to the Senate who has a 40% voting record with the ACU, the CFG and a D rating with the NRA…Sure their vote will count toward giving the Senate control to the Republican Party…but what’s the point of gaining control if the people you put there to get it do everything the Democrats are doing anyway!

AceInTX

bs

Right.

eburke

“One of the elements we keep missing in this debate is the damage these guys do us in purple states?”

and this:

“What do you say to someone who speaks to you in conservative terms on issues but when you try to convince them to vote Republican, they look to these guys and shrug it all off because the see no difference between the parties?”

I’ve *had* those conversations with ‘politically lazy’ friends of mine. You try to talk to them about how disastrous Dem policies will be and they will inevitably cite something they read/heard in the MSM about the Republicans being no different (because the media *always* makes sure that the Republican apostates get plenty of air time). I’ve had this happen w/regards to TARP (it’s why I think Norm Coleman ended up losing to the douchebag), and the bailout of GM & Chrysler (“well…I thought that started under Bush?”)

I believe that the place where people like Kirk hurt us the most is in the states where we need to clearest message: purple states where there is, by definition, a mixed political perspective, especially on economic issues. IMHO, people like Kirk may help us in State A, but often hurt us in states B, C, D & E.

The_Gadfly

But there’s not, and there doesn’t seem to be one in the wings. I’ll take the lighter shade of blue. I think I can count on him for one important vote, after that yeah he’s a RINO. But I think that if we get to 51 Rs in the Senate, he’ll vote for a Republican Majority leader instead of the D.

Okay, maybe I’m dreaming, but then everybody thought Dean was nuts with his every race matters mantra. Guess what? Were now looking at a filibuster proof majority in the Senate to ramrod through whatever The Big 0 wants. I’ll take Kirk over Franken any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Same thing would apply with Reid. Yeah, I’ll kvetch about afterward, but it would be a better spot to be in.

The_Gadfly

And if Kirk had a conservative opponent, I’d say the RNC and affiliates should sit out the primary until it was done, with the exception that if any primary candidate throws mud at another Republican, they lose party support, and if there are only two candidates left in the race, that would mean the RNC could endorse the other candidate in the primary.

ColdWarrior

as reported here at RedState when a few folks got together to attend a “town hall” meeting with their Debtocrat Party Rep. Tim Bishop in New York. We should be duplicating this kind of welcome for every congress-critter when they come back to their district for a ?town hall? meeting. Hand written signs, chants, hard questions and then video straight to YouTube. Also, we need to create a ?[Name of Congress-critter]Watch? type web site/blog that tracks what each of them are doing. (I hope someone already IS doing this.) These things are on my “to do” list and I’ll be meeting with some fellow precinct committeemen tonight to discuss them.

http://www.redstate.com/jacquesusa/2009/06/25/rep-tim-bishop-protest/

Here?s another post at Redstate.com that explains how the protest came about.

http://www.redstate.com/ireneny/2009/06/25/town-hall-meeting-with-tim-bishop-new-york-rep/

If you click on the last embedded link in the article (the embedding of the videos didn?t work very well), you can watch Part 2 of the video.

Checklist for protests:

Signs.
Bullhorns.
Cell phones.
Cameras.
Digital video recorders (I use a Flip Video) for fast upload to YouTube.
Pens and notebooks.

Beware the mainstream media types. They will try to pull a “Roesgen” on you. (Remember CNN’s Susan Roesgen in Chicago at the April 15 Tea Party? Those Tea Partiers turned the tables on her by taping HER and then getting it onto YouTube pronto. Go here to watch more: http://www.foundingbloggers.com/wordpress/2009/04/video-chicago-tea-party-in-depth-report-cnn-saga-and-all/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xWGvdRQ9Q )

Be ready with your digital video recorder. Record THEM recording you.

Thank you.

AceInTX

I wish I had a dollar for every time I talk to someone who doesn’t vote who holds conservative views…and when you try to convince them the Republican Party is where they belong and they should vote and vote Republican, I am met with:

“They’re all the same”
“The Republicans are as bad as the Democrats”

What do you tell them when they’re right? When the Party promotes Kirk, and Crist and fills up the leadership of the party with so many liberals that they can’t get anything done except forwarding the Democrat Agenda when they do get power!

AceInTX

Kirk is a liberal and a Democrat in everything but name!

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

Art has long harped on this, but he Democrats can recruit (squishes) because they make it clear that on critical votes, they have to toe the party line if their vote is needed. If their vote is not needed, then they may get released to appease their constituency.

Cynical, but it has worked like a charm for the Democrats.

Republicans – no discipline, and the totally opposite behavior. They vote the party line on unimportant votes, they buck the party on crucial votes – and then everyone rationalizes as to why they “had” to do that… because of their district, to be bipartisan, to allow future cooperation…ad nauseum. And the party leadeship lets them go their way.

And then the pundits wonder why we are a shrinking minority in Congress.

Freedomlover

Maybe we ought to just start voting NO on stuff. If you don’t believe in Kirk and you don’t like the Dem, then just ignore that office on the ballot. That way when the Dem wins and bad legislation is enacted they can’t fall back on the ever present excuse, ” Well Republicans voted for it too!” The Statist Media gets away with that all the time, with Rhinos like Snow and Collins. It doesn’t matter that the majority of Republicans voted for and/or against, they just pick up these few Rhinos and make a case. Most people don’t do their research and accept MSM biased reports. We need to start reading the Saul Alinsky Rules of Radicals and work against it. Otherwise, we will see that Obama wants to change the Constitution to reflect the Communist Alinsky’s views.

Brian Hibbert

It’s not an option. I will work for anyone otehr than Kirk in the primary, but if he should win it, I’ll vote for him in the General. A squishy R is better than a liberal D. I would just prefer a better option.

RS

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