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What of Pataki, D’Amato, and Guiliani?

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  October 27th, 2009 at 05:08 PM  | 

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George Pataki and Al D’Amato in particular, but both and Rudy too were helped by New York’s Conservative Party.

George Pataki would not have been elected Governor the first time without the Conservative Party’s assistance.

They are not just local names. All three have national names. They are connected to the Republican Party and, to a degree, they are connected to the fall of the Republicans in New York.

All three, though, have been supported by Republicans and by conservatives. Some may not have always agreed with them on positions, but I think the overwhelming majority of conservatives always recognized them to be good men who were with us a heck of a lot more than they were against us.

Why are they remaining silent?

Doug Hoffman’s victory in NY-23 will serve as a repudiation to the New York Republican Party, which, after D’Amato, Pataki, and Guiliani, largely grew fat, happy, and corrupt — riding on the victories of those three men without the party itself doing anything.

George Pataki, Al D’Amato, and Rudy Guiliani could help rebuild the brand and rebuild a movement for positive change in New York. Ironically, to do it, they would have to come out strongly for Doug Hoffman instead of the woman who nominally has the “R” next to her name.

But they can and they should. I hope they will.

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COMMENTS

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  • jah666

    I have great respect for you, Erick, and your opinions and analysis. That said, do you really think that Hoffman can or will win NY23? Even if the polls say he is coming even, with Scozzafava steadfast in her refusal to pullout, does Hoffman really have chance in a three-way race? I would be tickled pink if he does win, but I have severe doubts that it can happen. What about Democrat shenanigans and election fraud that may seal the deal?

    As for Pataki, D’Amato and Guiliani, they are the types that stay with the establishment choice as far as I have seen in their careers. Stick their necks out just to make a conservative message out of the race? Not likely.

    The next few days and the polls that come with those days should be very interesting. Keep up the great work Erick!

  • zbigreddogz

    And it wouldn’t do much good anyway.

    If any of these three individuals want to run for office again (I guess Damato is probably out), they’d have to have the backing of both the local R parties and the Conservative party. Either way, they’d greatly anger one or the other. They simply can’t afford it.

    And it wouldn’t matter much anyway.

    I’m not giving them a profile in courage award, but that’s reality. I hope either Pataki or Giuliani runs against Gillibrand, because we really need them to. And the way to win statewide is not by pissing on local party officials of either the GOP or the Conservative Party.

  • Third Street

    And I see no reason why that can’t happen, as the momentum is clearly with Hoffman and McHugh never got less than 63% in this district.

    What about fraud? Well, what about it? If we’re going to let the shadow of Democrat fraud cow us then we might as well give up on all elections. I’m not afraid of them, and I believe that Hoffman can and will win.

  • Third Street
  • crosley

    Ultimately, we want the Republican Party to be the vehicle used to achieve conservative policy goals. It’s very easy for a candidate to just spout off and not actually have any real intention of drawing in a majority. Because we have a two party system, we have to take positions that will draw a majority outside of just the base.

    Hoffman is a special case, and just about the only 3rd party candidacy I can think of where I want to see the Republican lose.

    I would vote for Hoffman if I lived in NY-23, but if he should win, I’m afraid there may be a stampede of third party/tea party type candidates that may run in 2010 and beyond outside of the Republican Party that could splinter off just enough to keep the Democrats in power.

    I know as a conservative I would be jumping up and down if a Green party member won a congressional seat in a Democrat district. Other left-wingers would be inspired and run outside the Democrat Party and splinter the vote, electing more Republicans.

    If Hoffman wins, (and Dede’s maccaca moment makes that a lot more likely that is was a week ago) conservative activists need to make sure they point that weapon in the right direction.

  • billyd

    D’Amato was on Cavuto today, and said he was going to make a statement regarding the race in NY. He wouldn’t break the news on Cavuto, but did say he was “Leaning heavily toward the Conservative”.

  • treeofliberty

    endorse the conservative publicly. Simply because he’s the only one who won’t be running for office anytime soon (if ever again)

  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    Fearing that a Democrat will win because Republicans splintered-has already happened. We are finished at this moment and have been since 2006. Secondly, I agree with Rush. It is inaccurate (and in my view not helpful) to characterize Mr. Hoffman as a Third Party (or even–gasp-a Tea Party type) vote. 2006 was 3 years ago and things are much worse, Soros and Goldman Sachs are more entrenched, there are at least 3x as many global warming lobbyists in DC as there are members of congress. As others have said, you didn’t hear the democrats portrayed as a group that needs to have a big tent. The far left within it just quietly took over. People need to stop giving Gingrich a microphone. This issue will die down.

  • TC Robinson

    Would Doug Hoffman have a “C” by his name or an “I?”

  • martellus

    Sam Stratton was elected to the House of Representatives in 1958 and was the first Democrat elected from the Albany Schenectady district since before the Civil War. The Republicans fractured that year and said they could defeat him in the next election. Sam Stratton served for over 30 years.

    Tom Downey was elected because of Watergate and the GOP dividing over a true conservative and and a true Republican. Downey held his seat for 9 terms (18 years).

    Louise Slaughter was elected to the House 24 years ago to represent Rochester when the GOP got into an internal dustup. Same words were spoken then she would be defeated next election. Now this transplant from Kentucky, who was ridiculed for her thick “hillbilly” twang accent, wins with over 60% of the vote.

    If Owens wins this seat because we are fighting between each other it will give the Democrats a great PR victory. The White House and the DCCC are already saying this election is the actual referendum on the Obama administration.

    My sources from the Democrat party say that Owens is sitting on a slight but comfortable lead. They also have identified their votes and have as good a ground game in place as they have ever put together. They would not say such things unless they were very confident that they are correct.

    These are all facts if you want Hoffman to win you had better have identified your vote and have a very intense get out the vote mechanism. This will be about turnout and the Democrats are ready are we?

  • Hooah_Mac

    Looking around at your various posts, you are really lacking in credibility. You look like a concern troll to me, If I am wrong, I apologize, but if it walks like a duck…

  • Vegas_Rick

    than Dede would be if elected?

    Sounds to me like the NY GOP has been screwing things up for the rest of us for a long time.

  • proudgop

    D’Amato as the guy who endorsed Elliot for Governor 4 years ago? He is also supportive of Gillibrand to boot.

    I am a New Yorker there is no NY Republican Party; we have zero statewide office holders are down to 2 Republican Congressman are in the minority in state legislature and there are zero faces on the horizon. Heck, you’d think someone with a lot money would make run but we can’t even get that. There is no one in the state that can inspire Republicans anymore minus Rudy and he is hated now more then ever by the left in this state. Pataki has vanished since his term ended and he has not done anything for party either.

    Worse, I doubt Rudy makes run for Governor and even if he does he is running from behind in this state now. Rudy worked hard for the other special election and it didn’t pay off for us

    Pataki or Guiliani would have to lean even more to left to win NY at this time. Since 2000, NY has lost over 1.5 million people but only 120,000 in NYC so it shows just how much the demographics have hampered Republicans in this state.

  • writeblock

    if he runs for governor.

  • writeblock

    because a) anyone with half a brain would know he won only because Republicans split their votes; and b) he’d have only a year to enjoy the victory because Hoffman would be back to claim the seat in 2010.

  • ocleverone

    more of a referendum on the Obama administration that one seat in upstate NY.

    This isn’t a referendum for Obama, this is a referendum for principles, this IS when conservatives say enough is enough. For too long, conservatives have accepted ANY candidate that had an R behind their names without regard to the principles of conservatism and bravo to Mr. Hoffman for stepping up to the plate to challenge that worn out theory.

    Do I want a third party? No. But I want faux Republicans even less – they provide no service to us and make the jobs of real conservatives that much harder.

    Please stop using the guilt trip of we’re going to lose unless we get behind (insert favorite RINO’s name here) and get them elected. To what end?

    It is time to stand for principle instead of one letter of the alphabet and if the party leadership can’t figure that out, then it is truly time to change that leadership.

    I salute Mr. Hoffman, Erick and the RS crew, the conservative voices in the media, the bloggers, the TEA party activists and those people like Cold Warrior who are galvanized to not only stand on their beliefs but go down swinging if necessary. They are the ones that will help bring us back.

    I have no clue who is going to win but certainly the momentum is in Hoffman’s favor regardless of what your democrat sources say. They are speculating until all the votes are counted.

    And one last thing before I jump off my soapbox, everyone get out and vote on Tuesday. Not only that, get your neighbors out, work the polls, make calls to get people out and do everything you can to get conservatives to the voting booth.

  • martellus

    Have no idea what a concern troll means but then again I have a life and I don;t spend all of my time on the Internet. Looking at your postings it is easy to see what has happened to the Republican party over the past four years.
    You could not refute one point you just became a Huffington poster and tried a smear campaign instead.

  • martellus

    It makes me wonder why all of the polling in regards to NJ is being kept under wraps. I have not been able to see or hear anyone willing to say what the DNC’s polling is saying and that is very unusual.

    They might be terrified of NJ.

  • Hooah_Mac
  • penguin2

    There are lots of polls out there which indicate a very tight race. And one was just discussed here yesterday. Internal polling would be the data kept “under wraps.”

    As regards Hooah_ Mac’s call of troll on you, well we’re thinking alike, you’re pulling off moby so far.

  • Hooah_Mac

    I may have worded it poorly, but I was only trying to point out to him how he was coming across. His reply seemed to make my case. I hope I’m wrong actually.

  • penguin2

    I’ve met up with him before, and others have as well. I don’t think you are wrong, which is why I said what I did. He likes to play devil’s advocate and never says anything that really shows he is with us on any issue. Even his sentence “the Democrats are ready are we” is snide. No I think he is a moby.

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    We’ll just have to see what happens on Tuesday in NY-23 and reassess afterwards as to what’s next.

    I suspect that if Hoffman and Scozzafava split almost equally that Owens will win, and that may well be what the Dems are verifying with their polls – that they can win an even split.

    What remains to be seen is whether the voters will shift in the next week as a) Hoffman gains more attention (positive and negative) and prehaps key endorsements; 2) whether Hoggman’s new contributions are effectively used; and 3) whether the Republican establishment goes scorched earth.

    But conservatives are committed to seeing this through.

    As far as your analogies, incumbancy does carry advantages and it’s not always even to regain seats, but this is an unusual case: a) no primary, b) special election – which affects voter demographics, c) one year term, which means less entrenchment, and d) the variables of redistricting which may significantly change this district in 2010( if it doesn’t get eliminated), which means that there will be a whole new ballgame in that election anyway.

    So the downside risk is less than usual, whereas the upside benefit is greater than usual.

    I don’t have an interest in playing the troll/moby detective game with you. This post at least seems to raise some valid points that are at least worth considering.

    Going forward, what will make things clearer is 1) how responsive your are to critique, and 2) whether you continue to have a pattern of undercutting or whether you are aiding the goal of RedState – to promote conservative and Republican values and candidates.

    Blind cheerleading doesn’t benefit us, but concern trolling is worse because it represents an attempt to demoralize. We’ll see where you fall.

  • patsw

    Can anyone recall a Republican candidate in New York State that actually wanted the “support” of D’Amato or Pataki?

  • Pizza_God

    Well considering the latest poll had him in the lead, I would have to say YES.