Scozzafava Throws Support to the Democrat

anotherindyfilmguy

the other side. She was a true RINO all things considered. Hopefully her support for the other side will backfire and drive more to vote Hoffman.

As for the party leadership: off course they won’t quit… decades of get along to go along and being played for chumps isn’t their fault… chumps…

http://www.parkervisuals.com VizBiz

I just don’t think her supporters are are going jump on with Owens.

WarEagle01

Is that what they’ve been telling us? Is Newt now supporting the Democrat as well? Frickin 900,000 dollars wasted on this POS. I will never, ever donate to the NRCC again.

tankertodd

Wow. I mean, WOW. Unsat, NRCC.

Tbone

Where is are the Congressional Republicans?

Carol Tarasewicz

Thanks to RedState I stopped wasting money on the above two. I refuse to give them a cent. This week I got call for NRSC and used Crist as example of why I will not support them. Man did not know who Charlie Crist is. Need I say more?

http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

Newt did it again this morning even as he declared support for Hoffman, talking again about how ‘the people’ in NY23 chose the candidate, when it was no such thing. It was a committee.

MacAoidh

…yikes. That’s not just egg on his face. It’s poo.

10ksnooker

Would like to drop 900 gs in the till for his effort?

The RNC needs some serious cleaning out …

Don’t give to the RNC, give direct to candidates you support.

CV_Gas

DIABLO – Democrat In All But Label Only

Bobcat51

and who now shows her real true colors ! This woman sure hoodwinked a lot of gullable folk ! Is this the way forward with wishy washy candidates like Scozzafava , I don’t think so ?

$900.000,wasted on a RINO, heads must roll and some of the more learned who endorsed this candidate better wake up and do some real soul searching and be da* quick about it.

A big lesson learned here team ! .

Jack_Savage

When she’s not a good Democrat. You know – the “with us 70% of the time” meme.
I guess this is one of the 30%.

MacAoidh

…the deification of Dede Scozzafava by the Left. She will be the Joan Of Arc of our times before it’s over – a good, reasonable Republican badly impugned and railroaded by a bunch of foaming-at-the-mouth Jesus freaks and personally destroyed in the bargain.

Don’t be surprised in the least if Obama himself opens his pie-hole with something along these lines tomorrow or Tuesday.

eburke

Being the big-tent, team playing, enlightened, reasoned, smarter than the rest of us moderate that Dede is, she *must* be supporting the party-endorsed candidate.

I mean, it’s only the close-minded, Neanderthal, knuckle-dragging, purist, my-way-or-the-highway, conservative cretins who would refuse to support a nominee with whom they have philisophical differences.

Third Street

Scuzzafava’s base of support was the Daily Kos. Her share of the vote probably would have been around 15% even if she hadn’t dropped out.

libertymt

I don’t see how you can blame them for this debacle at all. They didn’t choose her, they didn’t run a 3rd party candidate against her, and they didn’t sink her campaign. They’re the National Republican Congressional Committee, it’s their job to support Republicansin races all over the country. Even those in relatively liberal/moderate areas like this.

Blame the local committee that chose her, and/or those of you who supported the 3rd party candidate over her. If she succeeds, and enough of her support goes to Owens for him to win, the first Democrat from this district in about 150 years, it’ll be on their heads and your’s.

This has been a mess from the start, and no one can come out of it claiming clean hands.

Vegas_Rick

You can’t go through life drunk, fat and stupid.

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

1. The NRCC was involved in Scozzafava’s selection.

2. This is NOT a liberal/moderate area (R+12).

3. The National Republican Congressional Committee needs to support Republicans, not Democrats with an R after their name (see who Dede’s endorsed and supporting now).

There’s a word I want to use here to describe your comment, but posting rules prevent it.

izoneguy

eburke

Who knew?

Or did you have something pithier in mind?

libertymt

The last poll done of the district showed her getting 20% of the vote, and Hoffman and Owens essentially tied at 35% and 36%. If the thought of her voters splitting even slightly more favorably towards the democrat doesn’t make you a little nervous, you’re not really paying attention.

There have been two debates, Scozzafava dropping out, and a switched newspaper endorsement since the last polls before this one. I couldn’t even begin to guess how it’ll all end up at this point, but it’s probably going to be pretty close.

And it’s all a mess, either way you slice it.

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

Idiot.

penguin2

do you think we should get the $900,000 dollars back the RNCC invested in her? Seems to me there certainly is some poor judgment on their part to invest in a candidate like that. Our side stood for our principles and were not going to support a candidate who was to the left of the Democrat. You continue to ignore the unique circumstances of this race. Must have a reason for doing so…..

I think you are just here as a moby, because encouraging candidates like Dede are not what we want, and you have been so concerned about Hoffman’s progress in NY-23.

libertymt

They voted for Obama. I’ve lived places like that, just because there are more Republicans registered than Democrats, doesn’t mean it’s not a moderate area, or that the Republicans don’t lean more to the left than the rest of us.

BlueStateSaint

I think I read it here last week or so, maybe longer, that Scozzafava was considering switching parties. Let her go.

beafrank

true nature of a RINO and the weakness of the Republican party. They cannot bury the liberal agenda because it is their agenda, too. The RINO’s are willing to play nice and get stabbed in the back by the Democrats time after time. They think it is just a another Ivy League debating society event rather than a fight against liberal tyranny.

eburke

I hate when I misplace my Thesarus.

libertymt

Whether I’d rather have the money back or not, the reality is that it won’t be returned, no one ever returns money in these circumstances.

And yelling ‘moby’ at anyone who sees this situation for the mess it is seems foolish.

eburke

that the *Democrat* was running to her *right*, or the candidate who is such a loyal Republican that she has tacitly endorsed the Democrat. Let’s blame those who objected to this backroom deal for failing to fall in line with a DIABLO and not being loyal Republicans like, let’s say, Dede.

Got it.

libertymt

I disagree with how this all played out, and suddenly you feel the need to call me names?

You have any real points to make, feel free to make em. I stand by what I posted though- the NRCC isn’t responsible for this mess, the locals and the 3rd party people are.

caindependent

Could be a great opportunity to add yet more Republicans who don’t know it to the fold…

Seriously, can we stick a fork in that pink piggy yet?

Is he done at the national level as far as electability & credibility?

I doubt he thinks so.

penguin2

I’ve been polite with you all along. Your remarks today continue along the same vein you had in Erick’s blog 10/27

This site is to promote Conservative/Republican candidates. I’d like to know who you support and why. Pick a few and tell us. Should be revealing.

HappyBunny

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

I’m a pissed off Bunny & just looking for something stupid and helpless to hurt.

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

that thinks an R+12 district is “liberal/moderate”? Be honest…

eburke

First, see my comment below about the illogic of your comments above.

2) Cf. Night Twisters #1 above; if you’d have been following this, you’d know that the NRCC *was* involved in the selection of this leftist candidate so they deserve every brickbat thrown their way;

3) The NRCC didn’t *have* to spend $900,000 of it’s supporter’s money backing someone who was to the *left* of the donkey; (and if you wish to fall back on the canard that it’s their *duty* to support a Republican no matter what, then I would imagine that you were screaming bloody murder when the GOP refused to support in any way, shape or form David Duke’s run a few years back)

4) To blame the conservative wing of the party for not standing by and allowing a 140 year R district be hijacked by a DIABLO (who showed her true colors by endorsing the Dem) is, well, idiotic.

6eorge Jetson

per GoDaddy.com, just search for firePeteSessions.com

swami7774

NY-23 was held by Democrats(Peter Peyser, Michael McNulty) from 1979-1993. It’s not the Republican-by-birthright district the MSM claims it is,

libertymt

She was further left on some issues (mostly social issues) than the democrat, but she was further right than him on other issues (mostly fiscal issues). That’s not far left, that’s somewhere inbetween- moderate. And that’s how much of the Republican party in this area votes.

Heck, that’s how a lot of the country votes. I hate this idea from both the left and the right that there are no actual moderates in this country, when it’s clear that there are.

Scope

are the reason for our election losses in 2006 and 2008, most especially with McCain in 2008. What part of moderate=loss do you not understand.

I looked back at your posting history and I’m not sure I would even consider you a moderate, rather, I’d say you are here as nothing more than anantognizer, ready to tell all of us how much more you know than the rest of us. You have consistently been on the other side of the issue in whatever thread you post in. Why are you here? Has Pete Sessions sent you tell tell us to shut up and fall in line?

Hint Hint- You and your ilk are a dying breed. The Conservatives will show you the way to the door.

libertymt

I support my local Republicans and the issues that are near and dear to us, even when they’re not necessarily national conservative positions. And I keep my nose out of other people’s business in other parts of country because I know full well that my state isn’t the same as their’s. And I resent it when someone from somewhere else comes in and tells us what we should be doing or believing or supporting.

We have a federal system for a reason. Not every state is the same, not every state Republican party is the same. Personally, I’d like to keep it that way.

6eorge Jetson

and spent $900,000 on her behalf, much of it to attack a candidate that never materialized.

Scope

she needs you to get to the 23rd immediately so you can help get out the vote for the Democrat Ownes. Meet her at her husbands AFC-CIO office, he is using it temporarily as campaign headquarters for Owens. Remember to take along a lot of dollar bills and/or cigarettes, you’ll need them as payment for all those you can coerce.

mbecker908

1. Pro-choice.
2. Pro-gay agenda.
3. Pro-nationalized health care.
4. Pro-TARP.
5. Pro-every freaking tax she can find (like Huckabee).
6. Never met a problem government couldn’t solve.

Dede is NO fiscal conservative. Check out her track record in NY. And you can do your own homework.

Scope

they never learn, they never possess reason or rationality, and they never quit. They believe that if you keep doing the same thing over and over, eventually you will get a different result.

6eorge Jetson

.

Scope

and believe that no one should be poking their noses in other states business, aren’t you then guilty of what you are accusing the Redstaters of?

libertymt

Local party ID doesn’t always match actual voting patterns, especially when it comes national office. Lots of places in the south for example with old conservative Democrats, Democratic city councils and such, but who reliably vote Republican when it comes to national offices. And there are lots of places in New England who vote for Republicans in the local races, and Democrats in the national races.

This area of NY is a long time, heavily Republican area. And it’s also a moderate/liberal area too. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

eburke

has endorsed Owens, the liberal Democrat, instead of the now-endorsed by the Republican heirarchy (who spent 900K on her behalf) conservative Republican?

I’m stunned, I tell you, simply stunned.

Scope

and to bring up past Dems that held the seat back to 93 just goes to show you just how Liberal the Democratic party has become. Obviously the 23rd learned long ago about the disastrous direction the party was taking the country in, and, had an epiphany.

eburke

to Montana? I think only he may be able to ‘reason’ with this….whatever he is.

libertymt

Telling people to quit sticking their noses into a local race, and enforcing national conservative positions over the local Republican ones is totally consistent with my beliefs.

redneck_hippie

I just remembered. They abstained from the vote on the Declaration of Independence in order to give the appearance of unanimity.

Moderates have been with us since our very founding.

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

It comes from votes. Real votes. Recent votes (e.g. the 2008 election). You know, the one where NY-23 went for McCain 57-40. Are you really this ignorant? I’m at a loss as to how you can call yourself “educated”.

mbecker908

Actually, the darwin rule will take care of this schmuck.

libertymt

I realize it puts me somewhat out of step with the general attitude around here, and it’s why I mostly lurk, but I don’t buy the idea that it was moderation that doomed us the last two elections.

Scope

n/t

eburke

That’s not fair and you know it.

How dare you challenge conventional wisdom using something as trivial and irrelevant as facts?

http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

Meanwhile, may I make a suggestion.

Maybe a better use of some of our time, if it can be spared, would be making get-out-the-vote calls for Doug Hoffman.

The Hoffman campaign’s system works great. I’ve talked to some nice people up in NY-23 already.

Go here: http://PhoneForDoug.com

Thank you,
ColdWarrior?
www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com

eburke

wonder if you’re a fool rather than to speak and confirm it.

If you can look back over the last 2 election cycles, look at the themes of successful GOP years vs the disastrous ones, and still believe that ‘moderation’ both in governing and campaigning didn’t kill us in ’06 and ’08, well….you’re a waste of bandwidth and I guess you should be grateful that Franz doesn’t do cold.

redtillimdead

Pete Sessions and Michael Steele’s.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/ reelman

So now do we all understand why those beloved Planned Parenthood RINOs do more harm than good for the Republican Party!
She backstabbed a Party and a Republican that chose to run as a conservative this time…vindictive wench to say the least.

If its a Hoffman win of under 5,000 votes…the forced democrat recounts (that steal it) will last for months!!!

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

libertymt

http://www.2008racetracker.com/page/NY-23

http://www.swingstateproject.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=686550919966EFF4C6E6A6380B3C4608?diaryId=4161

Both sources show that district (NY 23) going 52-47 for Obama over McCain. And Bush won in 2004 with only 51%. It absolutely is a moderate district, and one that’s further to the left than most of the rest of us.

If you have some other source showing different numbers, I’d love to see it, but everything I’ve read says you’re wrong about this.

mbecker908

gonzo55

Not only am I embarrassed to call myself a Republican given today’s events, I’m embarrassed to call myself an American. I know the latter will pass quickly, but the former will take much longer. What kind of election system is this where we can’t have an honest choice between two candidates, we need an electioneering DIABLO like Scozzafava prostituting herself in favor of the other party’s candidate. Disgusting.

At least Owens is probably more conservative than Scozzafava.

http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

rather than DC I might agree with you on that one point, doubt it but I might, but this is an election to send someone to DC, whose votes will affect all of us. So yeah, conservatives from around the country do have a vested and valid interest here, just as they do in TN-01 where I live. And don’t think for one minute Pelosi and Obama regard this as just a “local race”.

libertymt

I don’t care about themes, I care about facts.

People always want to talk ideology, but the fact is that winning and losing usually comes down to much more concrete things like whether voters feel safe, have a good secure job, food on the table, and low taxes. You take those things away, and they’ll throw you out, doesn’t matter the party or the ideology.

And sometimes you just lose because you’re not a very good politician, or because the other guy is a lot better.

libertymt

Is exactly why there are now more independents in this country than either Democrats or Republicans.

Very few people are ideological purists, they’re moderates and they care about the issues affecting them directly, oftentimes local issues. When you have both party’s bases engaged in purges of the impure, it leaves these vast swaths of Americans upset and frustrated with government and both parties.

penguin2

That’s what keeps people like you happy and ruining the country.

You’ve admitted already you just “lurk” here and it puts you “somewhat out of step with the general attitude around here.” You’ve wanted Dede all along, and your goal is to push these kinds of candidates. That is not the goal of this site.

So much insincere concern on your part….

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

Swing State Project. Apparently, this was a projection after redistricting. Your site shows the correct vote in 2008, so I retract my statement.

In any case, your link also says this district tends to vote more democrat in Presidential elections, and more Republican in others, which goes against your argument that a “liberal/moderate” is needed here. The polls show quite the contrary….a strong conservative can easily win in this district, so there’s no reason to select a liberal.

Mbecker has also shown that Dede is no fiscal conservative….she has no conservative credentials at all. There was no good reason for the local party goons in cahoots with the NRCC to select her, and now they’re paying for it.

In case you haven’t been watching politics lately, people are sick and tired of government intrusion in their lives and are not going to sit back and take it anymore. Unfortunately for liberal-supporters like you, that’s just not good news. Because at this point most of us really don’t care about collateral damage. We’re willing to let a few races go to the democrat to send a strong message to GOP leadership that we aren’t going to tolerate this anymore.

bs

Now go back to reading your David Frum library.

bk

They thought she might switch parties after the race – but instead she’s doing it before the race in effect.

libertymt

I do however want national figures and a very conservative national base out of a local election. And I especially don’t want to see this party go down the drains by splitting it’s vote between a somewhat moderate establishment and a much more conservative 3rd party movement.

paint_it_red

I think Hoffman will win, but even if he doesn’t, its better that Dede be exposed now for what she is. It was only a matter of time before she went the way of Chaffee, Jeffords, and Specter. Enough of these Benedict Arnolds under the so-called “big tent” that leave conservatives out in the cold. Let them show their true colors and the chips fall where they may.

Charlie

Some of the funds were spent bad-mouthing Hoffman — This is what really got the people angry.

Scope

“but the fact is that winning and losing usually comes down to much more concrete things like whether voters feel safe, have a good secure job, food on the table, and low taxes.” Isn’t that what Dede was against, mostly the low taxes part of it? What exactly do you mean by “a good secure job”, one in which you are a part of the AFL-CIO perhaps? I’m pretty sure that the AFL-CIO is in Montana also, yeah?

paint_it_red

Lesson learned, 100%. Until they clear house and show a cohesive, conservative philosophy, that is the only logical course.

bs

Because this site is going to be all about “local elections” for the next 2-4 years at minimum. Every race for Senate or House is going to be covered here at length, and we will be doing everything we possibly can to put conservatives into position to run on the GOP side of these races.

And to consider these “local elections” is the height of stupidity. In case you hadn’t noticed, the vote of one single Senator or Rep can sway the policy of the United States of America. Therefore, one dipwad Dede can be responsible for me having my taxes jacked up or my freedom taken away, no matter who elects them.

You are either naive as hell or being intentionally stupid.

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

You mean like Dede, who just endorsed and is working for the Democrat candidate? Moderate like that? You can have ‘em. Take every one of them with you, and don’t let the door hit you in the [redacted] on the way out.

penguin2

Dem lite policies and candidates. If a Republican candidate can turn around and throw her support to the Dems, that is what she was all along. If the the local “king-makers” chose her with the help of the GOP establishment, that is the type of candidate they obviously wanted. Republicans have been losing because the voter has not had a distinct choice between the two parties. Just the “lesser of two evils.” Not a very good reason for electing someone.

If you are a liberal Republican, and you are here to try and persuade us to go that route, not going to happen. If you are here as a Dem to just argue and try to undermine us, again, not going to happen.

So why do you want Democrat type candidates?

Scope

slowly but surely. You will once again be proud to call yourself a Republican.

Scope

slowly but surely. You will once again be proud to call yourself a Republican.

libertymt

Read my post above- I’m not supporting Scozzofava. I simply don’t believe a 3rd party conservative movement is a positive thing, or that we should have a national base destroying local politicians because they don’t fit perfectly into the national party’s mold.

Do you know much about Montana? We have a fairly new Democratic Governor and Senator because the liberals left them alone to pander to the local interests rather than forcing them to toe the national party line.

Our governor is a big big coal guy, and it gives the liberals fits. Both our Democratic senators have A ratings from the NRA, also gives the liberals fits. But they wisely keep their mouths shut about it because these guys mostly vote their way the rest of the time. You could take a few lessons.

http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

last year sure are representing their local interests aren’t they? You know, the congresscritters that got fiercely challenged by their constituents in town halls and tea parties because they aligned with Pelosi and Obama rather than their constituents. Oh, and many of those doing the challenging, or yelling if you prefer in those town halls are the same independents you talk about, who now realize they were had.

Nothing wrong with standing in the middle of the road I guess, if you don’t mind dodging trucks, but sooner or later one’s going to hit you.

libertymt

It’s a few races here, a few races there… and it adds up really quickly. This is one of the last remaining republican districts in the entire north eastern part of the country. And we’re this close to losing it just like we’ve lost the rest of that region.

You’re confusing your position, with that of the entire party. There is a wider party, and there are places like this district where people hold different views. You can’t go around puring the party of anyone with those views. Or rather, you can, but that’s not a road anyone here should want to go down.

You can’t just cede one race, one state, one region after another in the name of purity.

Jack_Savage

Then revise and resubmit this line:

“I simply don?t believe a 3rd party conservative movement is a positive thing,”

If you think this is what NY 23 is about, then you are totally misinformed.

DavidSage

I honestly didn’t think Dede would destroy her career out of spite, but I guess I was wrong. I figured she had cut a deal with the GOP so she would bow out quietly.

Her career in politics is over. The Democrats will make her a hero for 48 hours, then never return her calls once this election is over. Neither party will EVER trust her in any position.

I agree heads should roll in the party over this. I just hate that we’re having this fight right now when it looks like this Tuesday should be a time of celebration with the expected GOP wins.

I’m much more angry, however, at the people that selected her that the national party organizations that tried to help her win. These organizations’ job is to get Republicans elected, it’s more tactical than ideological
The RNC and NRCC thought it was important to win in order to give Obama a black eye, so they threw a decent amount of money on the race. I don’t know they’re involvement in choosing Dede, but I definitely want everyone involved in this train wreck to be held accountable.

libertymt

You guys are going to help destroy this party over the course of the next 2-4 years.

You can’t keep forcing moderate Republicans out of the party. It doesn’t work. I know you want to keep thinking that we’re losing because we’re not ‘pure’ enough, not principled enough, not conservative enough, but it’s simply not true for a whole host of reasons I’ve mentioned in this thread.

The road you’re pushing us down is not a winning one.

proudgop

She did what she did ( I hate what she did) but really its time to stay focused on victory on Tuesday in this race, NJ, VA, and CA 10

I wish we could gather as much passion for helping Republicans then attacking them

mbecker908

First of all, in New York State, unlike anywhere else in the country, the Conservative Party actually has roots and has elected people to statewide office. They aren’t the Libertarians or Paultards.

Secondly, if elected Hoffman will caucus with Republicans in the House, he will be a reliable vote in the House, and he will most likely run as a Republican next time around.

I know that if you’re willing to vote for a Democrat, or even say nice things about one, you can go straight to h*ll. What part of “the Democratic Party – from national to local – is dedicated to destroying this country” don’t you get.

redneck_hippie

What I found in making calls for Doug’s phone bank is of those who shared their plans, 50% said they would vote Hoffman and 50% said they would vote against Hoffman. Small sample size, but so far it’s neck and neck.

Oh, and cold warrior is right, some people actually answered their phones even though they could probably see the out of state area code and most all of the people who did pick up, listened to my whole gambit.

And for you anti libertymt’s, try it, it’s better than arguing with an idiot.

proudgop

I am New Yorker just curious what Conservative has been elected statewide? not trying to be snide

Usually they win with Conservative and Republican party backing.

is this what u mean? just curious?

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

Why did they spend $900,000 on a leftist strong-armed into the nomination to exclude a conservative in a conservative-leaning district and hardly spend anything in CA-10, probably the most conservative district in the Bay Area for a sensible conservative running against a corrupt, virulently anti-business party hack (perhaps even worse than Pete Stark) who took down Executive Life as CA insurance commissioner and betrayed his duty to protect the policy holders for the sake of political gain?

When moderates whom I’ve never know to involve themselves in a political campaign are spending their weekends phone banking for Harmer, it’s clear the RNCC has missed the bus again and failed to take advantage of possible pick-up in special election year where there are very few distracting races.

No, it’s clear, that the NRCC doesn’t get it – they are more interested in feathering their own nest in the deluded expectation that they will escape the Revolution with their loot rather than supporting people who will stand up for our nation.

libertymt

Is being watched by everyone interested in politics all over this country. If you don’t think people will see Hoffman’s fundraising success (and possible win), and try to emulate it elsewhere, you’re fooling yourself.

In fact, if there were no threat of that happening, then how exactly do you see this race as sending a message to the party establishment? Either we have a credible threat to people like the NRCC, or we don’t. I think it’s a credible threat, you seem to think it’s a credible threat, but then you dismiss the idea that we’ll see a wider 3rd party movement in other places. I don’t understand why.

All we need are a few less successful 3rd party runs only garnering 5 or 10%, in a close race, and it’ll be enough to tip a few seats the wrong way. You don’t see that as a possibility based on this race?

proudgop

The NRCC has to use its money wisely and while a win in CA 10 would be stellar this is pretty much a solid Dem district.

I do wish Harmer well supposedly a SurveyUSA poll had the Dem at 50% and him at 40%

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

Krushchev predicted that Americans would sell him the rope for him to hang us.

The NRCC/NRSC seem determined to prove him right.

bk

because “she could best unite the Republican party” or something to that effect.

Jack_Savage

NY 23 is not about a third party conservative movement. It is about a special election and a GOP establishment that endorsed a candidate that is now endorsing a liberal Democrat.

I don’t have the inclination to explain the role of third parties in NY politics to you, but suffice to say that you are railing about apples when this is all about oranges.

Jack_Savage

Brother of Bill Buckley.

eburke

If you can’t understand that “themes” such as low taxes, less-government interference, less government spending, and freedom attract even ‘moderates’ and ‘independents’, then you are truly hopeless.

The *fact* that the GOP has neither campaigned or goverened according to those *themes* is why they have had their arses handed to them in the last 2 election cycles. If the populace was looking for a ‘moderate independent’ then McCain would’ve won in a landslide ’cause *you* got exactly what you want and think will be successful in the GOP’s last presidential candidate.

So…how’s that McCain presidency working out for you?

Martin Knight

Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Martin Knight

Jack_Savage

Kruschev always bragged that we would be destroyed from within, and he is very close to being exactly right. As far as the GOP goes, I have always thought that there were more Democrats in the leadership of the GOP than Republicans.
This is the beginning of a purge that will hopefully eliminate Democrats from the GOP forever. They are being flushed out by the dozens – Scozzafava is a perfect example of someone who is proving why she should not have been trusted. All she has done is prove our point.

eburke

the wascally, wight-wing, Wepublicans who want purity in the party and thus ruining it.

I would suggest that you peruse the diary Erick posted earlier today chronicalling all the times that the ‘moderate’ loser in a GOP primary refused to support the winner and we lost close elections. You guys are the masters of the self-fulfilling prophecy: Refuse to support the conservative primary winner, watch ‘em lose close elections, and then use that as ‘proof’ that conservative candidates can’t win….and then whine and moan that it’s *us* that refuse to support a big tent.

You are either woefully ignorant or purposely disingenuous. I believe the saying “people in glass houses….” applies here.

I’m just sayin’.

libertymt

Someone contemplating a 3rd party run in say, Arizona knows as much about this as I do.

All they’re going to see is that this guy, a conservative just like them, ran against a moderate and got tons of money and support from all over the country. Like I said before, all we need is a few of these candidacies to turn what should be a winning year next year, into a losing one.

So whether I know anything about the intricacies of NY state electoral politics is beside the point. The people watching this all over the country don’t have to understand it fully for things to go bad for us.

mbecker908

And you’re right about winning, they normally endorse the Republican.

But my point was that the Conservative Party is a well established force in NY politics. Not in every election, but they are organized, have ballot access and are not considered to be an outlier in NY.

The Conservative Party in NY is also not affiliated with ANY national party or organization. It is a creature solely of NY.

bs

Like I said, you’re spouting the same tired line as Frum and Brooks and the rest of the faux conservatives. You’ll find virtually no one here who buys your thesis. So stop wasting your breath. Perhaps LGF would be more your speed.

Now I suggest you stop while you’re behind. You aren’t making your case and you’re beclowning yourself in the process.

libertymt

Did better than any more conservative candidate would have.

The fact that we ran and lost a moderate last election doesn’t mean that that was what caused his loss. Even though some of you would like to make that claim.

eburke

Welcome aboard (unless you’re saying that you’d prefer Owens)

Those would be your choices.

mbecker908

The Conservative Party in NY has been around for a long time, is well known and has ballot access.

There will be no third party run in AZ. Or darn near any other place. No name recognition, no ballot access and no organization. Other than that, it’s a piece of cake. This is most certainly NOT a readily transferable event.

Since Redstate was on the front lines of this particular event, you should know that Redstate does not support third party creation or funding and the trolls who routinely show up here pushing that crap get tossed. This is not the same thing.

Boy are you stupid.

http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

Personally, I don’t care if they blame us. They can blame us from now until doomsday as long as they don’t get their way.

http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

for this person just for today, I’m going with “purposely disingenuous”

Just sayin’.

http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

the next time one of them says it’s conservatives’ fault, we should say, “Why, yes, it is our fault and we’re proud of it.”

eburke

You’re starting (or continuing actually) to make zero sense.

First, please show me the post where any of the moderators or even regular posters have stated that they believe that this model is one that should be followed nationwide. What you will find, if you’re reading comprehension or intellectual honesty allows you, is the oft-repeated thought that this is a special situation and can/should be used to send a message to the GOP establishment as to what happens when they use the national apparatus to jam a liberal down the throats of the party in a local election.

Second, your logic totally falls apart as you keep bleating that you’re ‘not supporting Scozzofava”. Hells bells, man, if it wasn’t for all the people that you keep castigating on here, that’s who we’d have. I’m not sure what part of the illogic of that you’re missing.

Unless you don’t want to see it…and want to hide behind the ‘we shouldn’t get involved’. In which case, I’d suggest you send an email to the NRCC, the NY GOP, and the local GOP party bosses telling them how PO’d you are that they didn’t hold a primary. It’s the only logical position you’re previous posts can lead you to.

Unless, of course, you’re being purposely obtuse.

libertymt

That NY is alone is this? That there aren’t small 3rd party organizations playing a role in other states?

A few years ago we elected a Constitution Party member here in Montana to the state legislature. The legislature was virtually all tied up, 50/49, and he secured quite a bit of influence for himself due to that.

Most states have local conservative parties. I don’t know why you think this is limited to NY.

And the name calling is quite childish.

mbecker908

of both Snowe and Collins. And, while I’d love to see a conservative replace them, it’s not gonna happen.

This race, and the FL Senate race, are not the same things.

Heck, just look at the commentary about McCain running again in AZ.

The point is, where there is a conservative alternative we should do everything possible to elect him/her.

eburke

who didn’t have the testicular fortitude to call out Obama for the radical Marxist his was/is, and because his voting record was so ‘moderate’ that he couldn’t have distinguished himself from Bambi’s moderate rhetoric even if he wanted too.

McCain ran the kind of mushy, squishy, blah campaign that you ‘moderates’ think the country will flock to and got his carcass handed to him. That you are so wrapped up in the sanctimony of your “I’m smarter than everyone else ’cause I’m an enlightened moderate’ shows how totally clueless you are.

So…if you can’t recognize that, you are beyond hope and I am done wasting bandwidth on you.

Have a great day in what ever fantasy world you’re living in…and those of us who get it will continue to fight so that you still have a country in which to spew your fantasy-land tripe.

Ciao!

libertymt

The fact that you don’t buy my thesis (or their’s I guess) doesn’t make it wrong though. I absolutely think I’m right on this issue, and no amount of name calling changes that.

eburke

bs

Or is it your divine knowledge? Or are you just a troll who is here to cause problems? My bet is on the latter.

But I’ll post one more response, and then I’ll put you on the troll watch list.

1) McCain won the primaries fair and square. RedState was behind McCain after the primaries because (and listen carefully, Sparky) we support the Republican in the general election. There are precious few situations where that won’t happen (Scozzafava is one of those, and that’s mostly because she never won a primary – she was selected by the party apparatus with no say from the electorate). We had a front-pager here at RS who was a huge McCain promoter, and we were in the boat with him for the general.
2) This is a conservative and GOP web site. We support conservatives and conservative thought. If you haven’t picked up on that yet, then you are definitely a moby or a troll. If you’ve come here expecting the members here to have sympathy for leftist leanings, you’re on the wrong site.
3) I personally have been promoting the concept of accepting something less than 100% perfect conservatism. There is always room for a candidate to be wrong on a couple of items. The problem is when we get into the grey area of the continuum. I fronted a diary on this topic several months ago (much to the consternation of several of the more hard-core members here). So your whining about moderation is misplaced. The issue is not fealty to conservatism. It’s how far left a candidate leans before they are unacceptable. The most interesting debate along this line is the Maine twins. When they come up for re-election, we will support the most conservative candidate in the race. Frankly, if Susan Collins ran against Dede Scozzafava, I’d be donating money to Collins.

Coming in here and claiming that McCain did better than a conservative is just a patently stupid statement. No one knows what would have happened if a conservative had run. Your posts are getting more shrill and ridiculous as you go.

eburke

trip to Montana? What if you bought him a fleece-lined doggie sweater?

libertymt

Should be intelligent enough to understand that it cannot function in this country, in our system, without allowing for array of different beliefs.

At no point in our history has the party marched in lockstep, or disallowed for variations in belief amongst our elected officials. Never. And we won in spite of it.

mbecker908

And by way of counterargument, I would offer that had McCain not chosen the unknown firebrand as his running mate he’d have gotten beaten by another 5%.

At the end of the day, no Republican wanted to win in ’08. No one put up a fight in the primary and McCain ran off and hid in the general after he’d taken the lead. He refused to fight.

libertymt

30 years ago we had dozens of elected officials from this part of the country, as well as in the south, and even the west coast. Now we have essentially none. You want to tell me there wasn’t a range of beliefs represented in the party back then? You want to tell me we didn’t have moderates and conservatives back then? You’re wrong. Anyone with even a vague grasp of history knows you’re wrong.

mbecker908

If you’d like to try to get one on him, you’re welcome to try. We will need a signed waiver and proof of current medical insurance. A life insurance policy made out to Mrs908 would seal the deal.

mbecker908

There were no conservatives on the national scene before Ronald Reagan. And Goldwater was a libertarian masquerading as a conservative, which is OK, but he was no conservative.

And the range of beliefs “back then” are the same range that gives us the twisted logic that Dede is a “moderate” or it’s ok to support your Dem Governor.

penguin2

someone will come along and deal with this tool who looks to be from the other side? I linked Erick’s blog of 10/27 above, which had more of this same stuff. He isn’t here with any desire to learn and modify his thinking. We are not here to entertain him.

libertymt

That’s an…interesting view of history.

bs

Stop responding to idiot trolls. And it applies quite well with this Frum clone.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

Now is NOT the time to compromise. We are in a fight for the soul of the Party. If a few moderates are collateral damage while we root out the self-serving closet socialists, so be it. I’m willing to accept that price.

redneck_hippie

Don’t feed it any more.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

We’re not the ones endorsing the Democrat.

Be reasonable and less mobyriffic.

libertymt

Are you learning and modifying your beliefs because of this thread? I believe what I believe, and it’s not what “the other side” believes (usually). I understand that some of you don’t believe that there can or should be any differences in positions in the party, but you’re wrong.

http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

“Don’t feed the trolls”

And yeah, in the 2 threads he’s posting in today he’s making the same argument as he tried in the 10/27 one. Poorly.

mbecker908

libertymt

I vote we call it The Ostrich Rule from now on.

I’ve been mature, I’ve been respectful, I’ve argued a perfectly reasonable (and I think widespread) belief amongst many Republicans, and you guys just dismiss it out of hand as trolling?

You should be able to handle holding a conversation with someone about the direction of party, even if their position is different from your own. I guess you can’t handle that, but you should be able to.

penguin2

give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but there just was no place else to go with him. I’ve thought he was a moby/troll from the beginning, now I’ll just wait on the clean-up crew.

aesthete

Is less a political party and more an endorsing PAC, than anything else: anyone who knows anything about NY knows that. Usually, they endorse the GOP candidate and stay out of the way, but in this instance, involved themselves directly because the party bosses (not the local GOP rank-and-file) picked a liberal candidate who doesn’t fit the district. Hoffman has specifically stated that he has no problem with the GOP, will caucus with the GOP, and is open to the idea of running as a Republican in the future. This isn’t an issue of party loyalty or localism vs. federalism; it is appropriate pushback from conservatives AND localists who rightly feel shafted by the party.

libertymt

If you don’t believe there were any conservatives elected in America before Reagan, then obviously no list I produce is going to work. And it’s also obvious that no appeals to our party’s winning history will be of any import to you.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

You’re trying to pick a fight with me when I wasn’t even in this discussion.

Wrong move. Shows me you’re just looking to cause trouble, and I can do something about it.

G’bye.

bs

eburke

and could follow a thread, you would understand that the ‘facts’ being referenced was the *fact* that when Republicans run and govern as conservatives, they win elections; when they run and govern as the party of we’ll do what the Dems will just not as much, they lose (as in 1980, 84, 88, 94, 2000 & 2004 vs 92, 96, 2006, & 2008.

And here’s another fact – the most moderate/liberal members of the GOP have been from the Northeast. If you’re meme was correct, they’d all still be there. Or, maybe when presented with a choice between ‘give it all too me’ or ‘give me a little less’ voters vote for the biggest sugar daddy.

And now….I *am* done.

aesthete

You realize that on a conservative site (where conservative ideals are taken for granted as the de facto belief), the burden of proof is no you, do you not? After the Anti-New Dealers, “conservatism”, or classical liberalism, pretty much disappeared. Would you dispute this claim, and why?

eburke

penguin2

Jesse V

Nuff said about that!

Dede is a RINO and a coward! Nuff said about that!

The NRCC – Worthless!

I echo what has been said here many times. Give to the candidate you support directly. Do not donate one dime to the NRCC. If the NRCC and the moderate RINO’s don’t like the way we play they can get off the field. They’re worthless anyway!

proudgop

I guess all polls are pointless now until Tuesday but PPP ( a Dem polling firm) has some tidbits from polling over the weekend ( part of it accounts for Dede dropping out and endorsing Owens)

-In a three way contest Doug Hoffman leads Bill Owens by 19 points. In a two way contest Hoffman leads Owens by 15 points. So the Dede Scozzafava withdrawal and endorsement will probably tighten the race some but not nearly enough.

So this morning around 10 AM I started up our NY-23 poll and after a few hundred interviews it appeared that Doug Hoffman was now running away with it-unweighted numbers showed him at 45% to 26% for Bill Owens and 17% for Dede Scozzafava.

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/

eburke

has rendered that whole endeavor moot. I suppose I now owe him for saving me from bodily injury and death.

eburke

Dem was using precious resources wisely?

mbecker908

that are in any way competitive in any election. MT doesn’t surprise me, given that I’ve got more people in my neighborhood than you’ve got in the state. That’s not a criticism of MT, just a note that it’s easier to organize a few people than a lot of people.

There’s also a big difference between a seat in the state legislature and a Congressional seat. Or a US Senate seat in NY State that James Buckley won as a Conservative Party member.

I have no idea what you’re referring to with respect to name calling. I’ve been pointing out the obvious. And, apparently Neil agrees.

Aaron Gardner

http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

But then he demonstrated to my face he was out picking fights.

Achance

Any party that gets 2% in the general is automatically on the ballot. Usually the Greens, the Alaska Independence Party, and in years past the Libertarians are on the ballot. Usually they’re just a refuge for whack jobs but the AIP has elected legislators and even, by a fluke, a Governor. The Libertarians had quite a presence back in the Pipeline days when Libertarian was shorthand for not wanting to pay State or federal taxes on all that money you’d rather be spending on cocaine and whores.

The AIP got Tony Knowles (Democrat) his first term as governor when Jack Coghill, Hickel’s Lt. Gov. refused to support the Republican nominee and ran for Gov on AIP. Here at least, the only thing conservative or libertarian candidates do is elect Democrats, so I don’t have ANY use for them.

bs

DavidS1787

have egg on their face for supporting a very liberal candidate(Dede Scozzafava ) that withdrew and endorsed Owens the Democrat!

Next93

Close elections always go to Democrats. Just ask Al Franken

mbecker908

The real, underlying, issue in NY State is fusion ballots. You can be a candidate for more than one party and they count your total vote count to see who wins.

The “rule” for NY would be that the Conservative Party would likely endorse the Republican nominee and the Liberal Party (and the FWP) endorses the Dem.

It’s actually fusion ballots that have created/empowered third parties in NY.

Aaron Gardner

The fusion ballots make NY a unique situation. Which is what many just can’t seem to grasp.

[no Art, I didn't mean you ;^) ]

eburke

sooner or later they hang themselves with it.

They can’t help themselves.

chbroussard

For those of you who thought Dede handled withdrawing from the race as a show of real class, what say you now???

ZeusKingoftheGods

anotherindyfilmguy-

Of course it will backfire!

The first thing I thought when I saw that she endorsed Owens (after I stopped laughing at her) was: “Dang! These grapes taste sour!”

If Scozzafava had any credibility before, she lost it ALL here. For two big reasons it’s not at all a shock that she would vote for Owens. First, she got her feelings hurt by conservatives since she couldn’t handle that fact that conservatives & fellow Republicans didn’t want to support her extreme left-wing agenda. The second reason that she’d support Owens is her extreme left-wing agenda.

Her endorsement of Owens is hilarious & is actually completely helpful to Hoffman because it just makes Scozzafava look like a complete sore losers. Scozzafava’s dumber than I could have imagined.

When Scozzafava dropped out yesterday without endorsing Hoffman or Owens I thought that she was just being a wise political tactician. I actually even complimented the gracious way in which she had bowed out.

But I understood why she would not endorse so close to Election Day. First, I figured that if Scozzafava pulled out & endorsed Hoffman, there would have been immediate accusations of arm-twisting or of a backroom deal. Liberals & the Media would have immediately thrown accusations of corruption at Hoffman. So, if she really wanted to hurt him that would have been the smart thing to do.

Then I thought, if she had pulled out & endorsed Owens, she would have just looked like an admitted loser who had sour grapes plus just proved the point of the conservatives who didn’t trust her in the first place.

Good job Scozzafava! Way to look like a sore loser & a moron at the same time! Your endorsement of Owens completely freed up your supporters to see you as an pathetic, whining child who just had to cry because you got picked on and called some name that actually fit you pretty well while you ventured out onto the playground.

The funny thing is that Owens can only see you as a disgrace now that he will use and dispose of after the election.

But that won’t matter because the best thing about democracy in NY-23 is that the voters now get to decide & they will see right through everything.

My prediction is now: Hoffman by 12.

redtillimdead

I became a Hoffman supporter 3 weeks ago, while he was still in third. Glad I did

proudgop

I changed while back; I go for winning ( i wrote check to Hoffman week and half ago)

have nice night

Aaron Gardner

yes, I think it does.

You too have a nice night.

proudgop

do u really think calling a woman a whore is classy? I have no words at the disrespect that shows to me or any other woman

ignore button

Aaron Gardner

FWIW I didn’t know, nor do I care that you are a woman. Political whoring is a coed sport.

drucifer667

Aaron Gardner

proudgop

and even that nut apologized for using that type of talk with that woman

I ignore the one here. I loathe him!

aesthete

I’ve certainly switched my backing of someone political several times before, and I’m sure you have, too–at least, I certainly hope so! Humans are fallible, so I think that to switch support is often better than sticking your guns with something as inherently unreliable as politics can often be. At least proudgop cut Hoffman a check–I know a lot of people who don’t bother to support their candidate beyond a vote at the ballot box. Just something for you to consider; take care and good night.

Aaron Gardner

BTW implying that I am a nut isn’t your best move at this point.

Aaron Gardner

I have no problem with people who initially support someone and then come along later. The problem with proudgop is that she shills for leftists in every race and derides conservatives while asking everyone else to remember the 11th commandment.

I don’t abide shills, hacks or political whores.

proudgop

pay no attention to the nut

aesthete

Still, I see her more as someone who is “moderate” but who can put her big girl pants on to support a more conservative candidate. If that impression’s accurate, I can respect that — certainly more than I do the bucketloads of “moderates” who support Democrats and blame their support of socialists on us knuckle-dragging “extremists” (see: libertymt), which I haven’t really seen proudgop do.

Aaron Gardner

but if it were accurate I would agree. ;^)

Aaron Gardner

aesthete

Just very firm in his beliefs. Also, as a rule, calling respected posters “nuts” is really not good form at all, especially on a forum where your views are in the minority.

Aaron Gardner

JSobieski

many independents stopped voting Republican because the DC Republicans pretty much abandoned their conservative principles

Independents respect a disciplined and principle Conservative, even when they are are not personally aligned that way on every issue.

In contrast, the squishes don’t impress anyone, especially when DC is spending money by the truckload

AceInTX

ocleverone

That some of your posts contain full sentences and use correct grammar and yet others read like my 13 year old texting his friends?

Just curious.

BlackConservative

He’s party establishment slime whose always been too quick to cozy up to the Left so people like him better. Remember the way he attacked Delay? He’s much happier doing global warming and healthcare with Hillary and Gore. Don’t let the tent door hit you on the @#$ on the way out.

janis

or she’s bipolar. Or schizophrenic. Or a Democrat. Any of them work interchangeably.

Third Street

…but since we’re coming off Halloween I will say that I don’t mind talking to a ghost.

Now, I was nervous when this was a three-way race, absolutely. But if you really think Bill Owens has a chance to win this district with Scozzafava out of the running then you’re not paying attention. NY-23 is a GOP district and has been since 1870. John McHugh never got less than 63% of the vote here. I’m not saying that in an open race a Democrat can’t crack the 40s, but Hoffman will win comfortably. Bank on it.

And no, please don’t give me the “conservatives-can’t-win-here-we-should-have-gone-with-a-moderate-Republican-who-has-the-backing-of-ACORN-child-rapists” line. Oh, that’s right; you can’t…

Third Street

Bush won this district in ’04. End of story.

AceInTX

http://cooperscopy.blogspot.com/ cooperscopy

This shows that many of the establishment Republicans like Newt and others were wrong in their assessment that a squishy republican is better than dividing the ticket with a conservative, and allowing the democrat to win. She never was a loyal republican, and just like many republicans that are conservative first, she proved she was liberal first and republican second..

bk

as long as the NRCC was willing to pay the rent for that loyalty. As soon as the NRCC switched to just attacking Owens, she had no cash.

Third Street

But then, proudgop also cuts checks to people like Mark Kirk, Meg Whitman, and Charlie Crist; and Heaven only knows how much she sent to Scozzafava herself, what with all the shilling she’s been doing for DeDe for months. If the lady is good at one thing other than leaping to the defense of left-wing sleeper agents in the Republican Party, it’s bragging about how much money she’s sending them.

Believe me, I wish I had that kind of dough to waste.

Oh well. At least she’s finally contributing to our side; I have to give her props for that.

http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

Was going to unite us and do away with partisanship, Remember that?

fallabella

I would hope that they (Sessions et al at NRCC) would use their brains rather than blindly spending our $$ backing Libs like Dede Scozzafava. Some discernment is called for. $900,000 down the drain, and did they learn anything in the process?

We don’t usually cut slack to those whose excuse is, “I was following orders,” do we? Ought we? No. Should American voters shut up and just get in line with our party superiors? Heck no! And I expect Newt and the rest to think on their feet, too.

Blame for this fiasco IS on the heads of the people in NY’s CD 23 who chose to run Dede. But hey, my own local GOP is running candidates on the Working Family Party line and they don’t quite get the problem.

I certainly do blame the local committee that chose Scozzafava, but no one forced the NRCC to pour our money into such a stinker of a candidate.
Newt said he would not have chosen her-so why support her race when he knew Hoffman-a good alternative-was running?

cyncurl999

…and I will CONTINUE to support 3rd party conservative candidates when it’s warranted. Is someone forgetting that this is a representative government… representative of the PEOPLE???? Come on now buddy – pull your head out. it’s a mess because the GOP is a mess. This is the best and, I might add very democratic, way to houseclean. I blame the NRCC for caring more about politics than the republic.

mudgie

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest how that they all are not of us”

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Scozzafava Throws Support to the Democrat

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