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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Thoughts on the Nashville Tea Party Convention and Sarah Palin

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  February 6th, 2010 at 02:22 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I sneaked up to Nashville to scope out the “National Tea Party Convention.”

I wrote critically of the tea party convention some time ago and expressed some serious concerns that Sarah Palin was going to hurt herself unintentionally by associating with it.

I’m glad I went and saw it for myself.

To be clear: I still have concerns. I still think there were some people without the best of intentions trying to make some money off of this. The rhetoric along the lines of “since when did we oppose for profit motives” is crap when it comes to activism like this because the activism is important and lining pockets along the way detracts from that. The $550.00 fee, plus everything else, was excessive for a lot of people.

Overall though, I think a lot of the people — most of the people — involved in organizing this did in fact have the best of intentions but were the proverbial dog who caught the car. I hate to use the word “amateurs”, but that is in fact what it boils down to. These guys had no idea what they were getting themselves into.

I think branding this as a “national” tea party convention was and is a bit presumptuous given what the tea party movement is, but in my time walking around, talking to people, hearing people, and repeatedly having to defend Sarah Palin to a skeptical press, I think the convention turned out okay.

The organizers were just overwhelmed. Adding Sarah Palin to it mushroomed it.

On Sarah Palin

The best thing to happen to the tea party movement is Sarah Palin. It is very clear she did not know the circumstances involved in finding the money to get her to Nashville. It is also very clear that the money is not going to her — it is going to the cause. She’ll use this money as part of a war chest to help elect likeminded people.

I think the tea party movement largely exists due to the absence of real leadership. Too often the tea party activists elected people who claimed to be concerned about the cost of government and then got to DC and betrayed the voters’ trust.

Sarah Palin’s governance shows she not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. As her voice grows, many of the voices of the alleged tea party leaders will diminish. Palin’s history is one of a woman who gets involved and leaves places better than she found them. The tea party movement will be left better off by Sarah Palin. And I hope that some of those who brought her in to the tea party movement will exit through the door she entered.

On Birthers

I was profoundly disappointed to hear Joseph Farah of World Net Daily hijack the convention and try to treat the birther issue as legitimate. The birther issue is not legitimate. There is no lingering constitutional issue. There never was.

Yesterday, I spent a lot of time talking about the meaning of the tea party movement and voter angst. Once Farah opened his claptrap, every question was about the birther movement. Way to go.

And that goes to a larger issue with this particular convention. With few expections, among them Sarah Palin, the featured speakers were virtual unknowns or, like Farah, increasingly on the fringe.

I do not think Sarah Palin must disavow or repudiate Joseph Farah. That’s distracting nonsense largely put out there by people who don’t like Sarah Palin. I think Governor Palin’s actions will show she too believes this birther issue to be a nonsensical distraction that is not credible. She can do this without throwing well meaning, but confused activists under the bus.

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COMMENTS

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  • reiuxcat

    I too am unhappy with Mr. Farah. This birther thing is not an issue. It serves no purpose for the cause of conservatism.

  • http://itsaboutfreedom.proboards.com/index.cgi IronDioPriest

    …that your greatest concerns days and weeks before the event have been somewhat assuaged by the reality of being there Erick.

    Thanks for attending.

  • katiejane

    this more reasoned take on the TPC & Palin’s involvement will never get the same level of attention that your previous critical comments got..

  • EagleWatcher

    The MSM will run with Farah’s speech and ignore all else.

    If you know someone who’s a Birther get them some professional help before they hurt themselves or the Conservative movement.

  • scrapiron

    I’m glad it wasn’t “professionally” organized. It shows that this is a real grass roots movement.

    Dispise not the day of small things.

  • fpete13527

    Thanks for updates and clarifications and thanks for attending the event

  • teresakoch

    that will allow us to slip under the radar for a while longer! Better they still think of us as a “fringe” element; that way, we can sneak into the November elections.

    If the MSM takes this movement seriously too early, we will lose a lot of momentum….

  • jsmiddleton4

    I have taken heat for expressing this opinion elsewhere none-the-less I stand by it. The Tea Party movement will self implode. And it will do so because of the weight it is placing on its own shoulders by acting like it is the ultimate, near final, authority on what is and what is not “conservative”. Its a sad thing too. The orginal and maybe lost origins of being truly grassroots was a great thing. The role it is trying to place itself in now however is not a great thing. The judgementalism that comes with being “purist” or some kind of touchstone for conservative creates a large and unforgiving weight. The movement does not have the ability to shoulder that self imposed weight. There is an arrogance growing in its ranks. Again sad. This was a great thing that is perhaps already becoming its own worse enemy.

  • Section9

    Never missing an opportunity to cash in and make it easy for liberals to put the “boot in” on the Private Parts of Conservatism.

    Jesus. Did he not know what he was doing? Of course he did. Andrew Breitbart had to spend HIS speech fighting off Farah’s birtherism.

    But it’s great for Farah’s bottom line and his mailing list sales.

    Graverobber.

  • http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

    despise not small beginnings, There are bound to be growing pains, but at least the common folk are getting involved in a big way in politics.

  • Chief1942

    ” I hate to use the word ?amateurs?, but that is in fact what it boils down to.”
    Erick,
    I think if you ponder on the the whole concept for a bit, you will come to appreciate that many of those attracted to what the Tea Party movement represents do so because they no longer have any trust of confidence in the “professionals”. That would apply to any person or persons who have been intimately tied to either national political party. Yep. Just a bunch of mainstreet Americans who have little experience or participation in political party appartus other than just casting their votes come election time. That lack of experience shows at every event of the Tea party I’ve witnessed. But that is what makes it unique. It is not simply a spinoff of some already established political movement. It is a populist groundswell and because it is populated with just plain folks, it is probably doomed to failure. Short of a French Revolution type of social uprising, I see litlle chance of ever making a fundamental change to the current political sewer that predominates our nation.

  • frog83

    Oh yeah? Well, let’s ask ourselves a few questions about our new Cdr-In-Thief. Has he ever lied to the minions previously? No papers, no college transcripts, hell, none of his classmates can remember him at Yale? Enough asked…for me anyway. America doesn’t need non-transparent usurper, stuffed suits and skirts in DC; it’s a bit overrun now. What we do need is someone that is willing to ask the tough (and easy) questions, and, guess what?…THE COURAGE TO SEEK, RETRIEVE and FACE THEM, no matter the consequences. Most of the ‘men’ in politics in this new-age either never grew-up or are NIALGs (Nuts-in-a-lock-box guys) so what can we expect? When history (the real history….that would be the truth, one would hope) is finally written (or emailed, texted, twittered, sent to your implants, etc.) you will have a retraction to make, Mr. Erickson.
    PS: by the way, anyone out there know what a “CORPS-MAN” is? Yeah, this president is a real smart guy, for sure, certainly on top of our security and Defense Department issues. I wonder if he can pronounce “homosexual” correctly? I do regress and apologize. As Mr. ‘F’ibbs (or is that Gibbs) would say, next question please.

  • jsmiddleton4

    There is a difference between being a professional politician and an amateur in regards to matters like organizing movements, meetings, etc. Apples to oranges. Sorry but there it is. Are folks tired of professional politicians? YOU BET! Does not mean folks need to be amateurs.

    What I saw of the spokes person yesterday from the national movement reminded me more of that Bob what’s his name from Penthouse Magazine.

  • inspectorudy

    We can all be thankful that the NTPC is an amateur event. That means that it was thought up and put together by people who’s first concern was the message getting out, not the tables, rooms and smooth flowing events seen at the big political conventions. It will get smoother with time but that is not the main goal.
    I have two comments to Erick and they are, 1. Was it necessary to blast the convention before hand with a lot of dire predictions and concerns? Was it necessary to worry about Sarah and did she know what she was doing? 2. Now that it is working out pretty well and the main message is being told, do you still have to preface everyting you say with a slight warning? Can’t you just say it’s great and I was wrong? We all know that there is at every convention a loose nut or a fringe player but we don’t have to dwell on them and take away from the yeomen who are doing our work .

  • Joshua Persons
  • Joshua Persons
  • Third Street

    Tea Parties: The more organized these things get, the more the whole thing looks like a gestating third-party movement; the more involved Sarah Palin gets the more I believe she’s a potential Ross Perot, and a definite populist more than anything else.

    Birthers: The birther issue is not legitimate insofar as there is no serious evidence Barack Obama was not born in this country. Outside of Farah and WND, though, most people tarred as “birthers” simply want to know why Obama has gone to greater lengths than any previous president to lock down and obscure his personal history, because as far as I know none of his predecessors ever sealed their own birth certificates and then spent a million dollars in court fights to keep them sealed. The fact is that we have no answer to this very legitimate question, and so I don’t blame people for asking it. But it’s stupid for the organizers to give a forum to conspiracy theorists.

  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    An effective salesman in any walk of life anticipates objections and readies short but meaningful responses. It’s too bad someone at the convention used the Al Gore defense when confronted about profits.. That is, when Gore was gently questioned in congress about the kind of money he was making off global warming, he boomed back to the effect that, do you have some problem with earning money? The subject was dropped of course in that case.

  • boywonder

    A voice within the movement but not its anointed leader.I think the movement benifits in general because she has now put it into the world spotlight.There is media from 11 other nations at it.I and every friend I have will watch her speach tonight.I disagree with the birthers but they have their right to free speach,however they should of being locked outside with their signs not giving speaches.Everyone knows they are the fringe.However the liberal left has the truthers about 9-11 and Palins son.Anyways your right in your article Erick,about the controversy at the start,and how disorganized they were.However these rookies did so far pull this off.I wish they had people like you from day one helping organize a larger venue,less expensive and more affordable.I hope to see more people like you involved in the next event to make it even bigger.Oh please invite Palin to keynote again.She is the main reason we will watch it tonight at our house.

  • Scope

    n/t

  • Josh Painter

    CPAC (Diamond Pkg.)….. $750
    SRLC (VIP)….. $599
    NTPC (Full)….. $549

    NTPC (Banquet Only)….. $349
    CPAC (Banquet Only)….. $250
    SRLC (Friday Night Bash)….. $119

    Again, NTPC was never intended to be for the rank and file Tea Party goer, but rather for those who organize Tea Party events. Many small Tea Party groups passed the hat to send one or more of their members to the convention, which includes seminars and breakout sessions.

    Despite all of the criticism from certain conservative circles, tickets for the full convention sold out quickly. Tea Party Express stood with Tea Party Nation, and when a major sponsor pulled out, Judicial Watch jumped in quickly to buy the available sponsorship.

    Based on interviews with attendees on PJTV, the convention has a bunch of happy campers who feel they are getting their money’s worth out of it.

    When will conservatives learn to stop feeding ammo to the left for them to use against our side? Please, no more circular firing squads.

    Gov. Palin is going to deliver a speech from the convention tonight which will be seen and heard by millions of people on FOX News, C-SPAN and even freaking MSDNC (although you KNOW how they will spin it).

    Her recent words and actions are clear, despite all the pundits who claim that they can’t figure out what she is doing, so therefore she must noit know what SHE is doing… LOL.

    Sarah Palin is working to pick up the pieces of what was once known as the Reagan coalition. If you remember, it included conservative and (some) moderate Republicans, independents, libertarians and blue collar (Reagan) Democrats.

    By accepting invitations from TPN to speak at the convention and from TPX to speak at two of its events (with more likely to come down the road), she intends to speak to a significant portion of the various fractured elements of Reagan’s coalition.

    By endorsing Rand Paul, she is reaching out to libertarians and paleoconservatives. Appearing with McCain at two events in Arizona gets the attention of the GOP establishment and its big-money donors. She’s showing them that she can be a team player, but that she’s not going to let them FUBAR a resurgent GOP. Palin learns from her mistakes. Schmidt, Wallace and other McCain staffers taught her a very important lesson about who she can and cannot trust.

    The Republican Party is not a big tent. It’s a big bus. There’s room in the bus for all who want to get on board. But the people who have been driving that bus have managed to get it lost in the wilderness and dang near drove it off a cliff. It’s time to get them out of the driver rotation. If they want to stay on the bus, fine. They can take a seat with the rest of the passengers, but it’s time for a new team of drivers with Reagan’s roadmap on their clipboards to take the wheel.

    - JP

  • Scope

    and take it on the road before you even do the proper paperwork filing requirements for a for-profit organization. I’m not a lawyer, but, even I would have that paperwork done before I even thought of a website, or started accepting people’s money.

    In addition, you criticize EE for his caution, yet, there are many other groups and people that backed away from the convention because of the above concerns.

  • EagleWatcher

    World Nut Daily and the Birthers have no legitimate ground to stand on.

    Do you hear that sound? It’s the sound of Barack Obama and his buds laughing at people who are making conservatives look like they were all abducted by aliens.

    Elvis is dead.
    Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.
    We did land on the moon.
    And Barack Obama is a US citizen.

  • toughintn

    For the most part, you seem to be trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the people you cited in your overview. In spite of your strong feelings (ones stated in the past) you dialed it back to a more respectful approach. Thanks.

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    N/t

  • duke87

    Airline TIcket to Nashville: $120.00
    Hotel bill: $800.00
    Convention Ticket: $550.00
    A chance to network with like-minded conservatives, possibly learn some valuable lessons in organizing for political activism, and listen to folks like Andrew Breitbart and Sarah Palin: Priceless

    I have to admit, when I read all the concerns about the cost of this event and the negative impact of commercializing the “movement”, I thought $550.00 is a value when some folks pay $1000.00/plate at those establishment fundraising dinners. I’m sure what the amateurs lack in polish and organizational savvy they will make up for in enthusiasm and intensity. I’m just thankful there are so many citizens willing to spend the time and money to attend and participate with the intent of bettering our nation.

  • Common_Cents

    and channel the new energy to reform the party.

    Ridicule and pooh poohing just do damage to our own side. Ridicule and put downs probably mostly coming from the RINOS who are threatened will only push the tea party movement closer to a third party splinter which is obviously bad.

    You can easily implement some plans and organization, but you cannot create the energy that the tea partiers have generated. The tea party needs some help in organization and planning, it doesn’t need criticism.

    Use it or lose it.

  • jsmiddleton4

    Could be but the suggestion they may need help is NOT met with a warm reception. ANY criticism is met with, “You criticize the Tea Party Dudes and Dudettes, well you must be a RINO!”

  • snopercod

    Chief–

    The video coverage of the event WAS amateurish. I E-mailed PJTV and complained about the lack of lighting on the speakers at the various conferences.

    The main conference was better – they actually set up a lighting structure in front of the stage, and the sound was good as well.

    But do we want a glizty CNN-style performance with everybody wearing makeup and all that?

    I don’t think so.

  • larryp

    Many people are very embarassed by their Birth certificates. There are errors on it. There are other names on them,i.e. father. There are boxes that are blank, (father).
    I worked in travel where I had to verify peoples’ papers and ID. Birth certificates have almost no information now. (that is awful but for another discussion.) But the ones from the past had color for race in a box. and also there was in addition a box for “Race” on them. The terms used are passe now but before 1968, it was common to seen “Mex.” or “Negro”. All that is gone now.
    Therefore I think there are some of these comments on Obama’s certificate and that is why he fights so. Suppose that there was a darker skinned baby(as a hypothetical) than the mother and some nurse or office personnel just said “white” in the box..Or “Mulatto” …Or the father was blank in that box. One might never want that to come out as that compromises a lot of things.or is ve3ry embarassing to the person.

  • mrbill

    The trouble with the nutters, birthers, truthers etc. is that they are the first ones pointed out or interviewed by the MSM. They want to bad mouth the Tparty movement by portraying it with these a**hats as the driving force.

    CNN had on the guy calling himself the Head of the Tea Party. It was that Dale Robertson guy from Houston that if you search for on the net he is the one with the big sign with the N word on it. That is why CNN had him on. They didn’t address the sign, but by putting him on in a suit and tie and on their split screen – folks then search his name and end up seeing him with that sign.

    So the Tparty is going to have to start winnowing these tin foilers. Either try and be nice to them or hire someone not to be nice to them.

    They need to put WND where it belongs…either in the back of the bus or under it….preferably under it

  • SteveLA
  • Third Street

    But didn’t you know that instead of offering an interesting, reasonable answer, you were supposed to just pick up the MSM’s football and tar all conservatives who asked the question as “birthers”? :)

  • Josh LeGuern

    Josh –

    This is the best explination of Palin’s motives I’ve heard and actually a good repudiation of the Glenn Beck- style purist populist libertarianism that has masqueraded as conservatism for the last year.

    We have core beliefs that are central to what we as conservatives believe (and by the way, they’re not GB’s silly platitudes an slogans), but at the end of the day, we’re pragmatists and realize that it doesn’t do us any good demanding a monolithic philosophy amongst our people cause ultimately conservatism doesn’t lend itself to that very well anyway (most conservatives are indepdendent people.) Palin realizes it takes a coalition to win. Conservatives, Libertarians, Moderate Repubs and Reagan Dems, and Independents, we’re all going to have to work together to defeat President Obama and his minions in 12.

  • writeblock

    …Mainly because since it IS grassroots and was thus always an amorphous but organic expression of public anger. It was inevitable that some in the movement would try to catch lightning in a bottle. But that never was realistic and will have no impact on how the mass of teapartiers think or feel or behave. What IS in the cards is another march prior to another scary (for Dems) election this November.

  • JadedByPolitics

    because it is the PEOPLE stupid! The bottom line is if there were no activism with regards to the Movement and just a bunch of loosely knit people getting together every April 15th it would still be the “movement”. The thing that gets lost in placing names on what is occurring is that it is just Americans who are ANGRY at the government and ANYONE who is an incumbent is likely to be thrown out. To attempt to make the Movement some kind of alternate almost three party enigma is WRONG! The Movement consists of DISAFFECTED Conservatives, Libertarians, Democrats and Independents and those 5 groups WILL decide the next two elections.

    The Democrats and Independents truly believed (wanted to) in hope and change and then saw they got Republican spending on steroids and politics Chicago Style which is not anything that at least 45 states have EVER SEEN!

    Bottom line is what everyone is calling the TEA Party is simply just Americans finally SPEAKING UP!

  • writeblock

    Nothing said at the convention, of itself, can reflect badly on the movement. Why? Because it’s amorphous. Birthers are as much a part of it as pro-lifers or fiscal conservatives. It’s importance is that it’s huge and represents a vast network of fed up citizens. They are fed up for different reasons–mostly for fiscal reasons–but that’s not what’s important. What’s important is the size of the movement and the fact that these people vote. We shouldn’t worry what pundits think or what the left thinks. Everybody fed up voter should be welcome.

  • writeblock

    …that’s the only thing that worries the opposition. Those tea partiers may be rank amateurs but they represent a lot of other people and they all vote. That’s what’s making Washington nervous. It really doesn’t matter what mainstream journalists think of us. The main thing is we have clout–and Washington knows it. That’s the bottom line.

  • tngal

    I agree that the birther business probably is something better left alone but will alas receive lots of pub. Although Erick, I respectfully submit that Tom Tancredo’s opening speech will probably generate the most and worst kind of buzz possible for the fledgling revolutionaries. Additionally, I’ve always respected Sarah and also hope she is not tarnished by this one event. I’ll catch her on cspan tonight and see how she does.

    Mr Painter points out in an earlier post that the convention was not designed for the “rank and file” tea party person, but rather the organizers. Gee, can’t you let the baby crawl around just a little longer. Its loose, free, and exploring. Its still in diapers, why are you trying to put a 3 piece suit and tie on it. Let it grow a little.

  • perimeterforce

    Eric,
    I don’t think every committe of safety, demonstration and armed crowd attacking the British knew what they were getting into in 1775. They just went out with that flame of fire burning in their hearts and won Independence.

    The Tea Party Patriots are a reaction to the Leftist, Socialist and News Media cr**p over the last 45 years.

    The Tea Party will move and flow with the ebb and flow of the political needs of the Republic of the United States of America

  • writeblock

    Why should we care what they think? It’s enough to know it’s a grass roots movement with a wide range of perspectives. Sure there will be some birthers among us. But most birthers are also fiscal and social conservatives–and their gripe is pretty straightforward. They want to see a birth certificate to make sure he meets a constitutional qualification for office. What’s nutty about that? Why should we agree to the media’s characterization of them?

  • AStoner

    I do find it to be a constitutional problem. The reason is quite plain, no entity in existence is capable or willing to ensure that the constitutional requirement of holding office are met. No state government official has been able to or willing to get the evidence. Since when is an announcement in a paper several days after the fact that a person was born to a specific person on a certain date proof that the birth happened in a specific location, as there could be many reasons for the paper to have either erred or been lied to. This is not about Obama and it is about Obama. I expect that every person who serves in our government should be required to give as much evidence of their identity as I had to when I join the military, for the members of congress, the courts and the president, I expect that evidence to be even more stringent. Obama is simply the first presidential candidate who has not voluntarily released enough of his records to belay any doubt about his citizenship, especially when there is significant reason to doubt his actual place of birth.

  • clintonformccain

    It is clear that the Democrats (and by extension the media) intends to paint the Tea Party folk (you know what they really call them) as a whole bunch crazier than a bunch of loons.

    I appears to me that the high ground in American politics is competent, fiscally responsible stewardship of the people’s country and an end to the corruption of insider deals. It’s not about far-fetched theories or any of that. It’s about the average American Joe and Jane being furious at the arrogance, self-dealing, and lack of responsibility by their elected officials. It’s about the American public saying ‘enough is enough” and not a penny more until you prove that you can spend what you’ve already grabbed from our pockets responsibly.

    I don’t think it’s even in the Republicans interest to label this “conservative” or anything else. The promise needs to be basic confidence and honesty. I don’t even understand what purpose a Tea Party convention serves.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    And they made their determination.

    Move the heck on.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    I watched some of the coverage today on C-Span (see my other comments) and when this subject was discussed (“Where do you see the Tea Party Movement in six months or a year?) the guy that seemed to come closest to “getting it” was Mark Skoda from the Memphis Tea Party, who said folks need to get beyond holding a sign at a rally and actually vote and get behind candidates and make sure the good, decent candidates win the primary elections, whether it be for school board, dog catcher, the state house or senate or Congress. Didn’t quite come out and lay out the Neighborhood Precinct Committeeman Strategy for taking back the leadership of the Republican Party, but he got close.

    I see the Tea Party movement as a means to channel good conservatives into the precinct committeeman ranks of the Republican Party so we can take the Party leadership away from the moderates/RINOs (only precinct committeeman can vote for the Party leadership) and to make sure that good conservatives win the all-important, very-low-voter-turnout primary elections.

    That panel was followed by a talk by two speakers from www.thevoicesofamerrica.org , a new non-profit in Ohio that teaches the basics of precinct activism but from a non-partisan perspective. I’m a partisan — in my humble opinion, the only political party good, decent conservative Americans should be streaming into to take back is the Republican Party, as I explain on my little blog.

    Can’t wait to hear what Sarah Palin will say tonight.

    Thank you.
    ColdWarrior
    No More Scozzafavas!
    Become a Republican precinct committeeman. NOW!

  • rfpzzzzz

    Unless the government stops pushing us in all sorts of unnecessary directions ,balance the books and respect our traditions it is unlikely the motivation that spawned the Tea Parties is going away.
    I do not understand why people are upset that people willingly pay to attend this event or that Palin gets paid. It seems like any similar type of event I have ever attended. I hope all goes well for those in attendance and that the networking proves helpful to the general cause of restraining the government. There have always been people who cannot think for themselves. If unscrupulous people try to use the Tea Party or blogs for that matter to lead sheep into wrong directions it hopefully will come to light soon enough. Right now Dems and the Obama, Pelosi, Reid agenda must be stopped and hopefullly the new GOPs will at least block the madness. Dwelling on the failures of the GOP past should be left to Dems and sensible people should try to focus on the ideas and candidates that will bring about fiscal sanity and a respect for our constitution and history. Third party notions or the idea that both parties are the same will not bring about the needed change at this time. Dems must be defeated. Primaries should be used to try to get the best GOP candidates and clarify the ideas to stand on.

  • swamphermit

    Thanks!!!

  • mbecker908

    making a complete ass of yourself now for months. Go post your crap elsewhere, you’ve yet to contribute anything here but a stink.

  • Chief1942

    “The fact is that we have no answer to this very legitimate question, and so I don?t blame people for asking it.”

    You have just put your finger on the reason the “birther” issue is even getting ANY traction. Even those who distance themselves from the movement still harbor the same doubts and questions that are at the root of the whole “birther” issue. I sense at times that it is Obama’s purpose to keep this whole topic out front directly( he mentioned questioning his citizenship at the Prayer breakfast) or sereptiously since it feeds into the image his mentors have tried for decades to impose on those who believe differently than they. First you have to demonize and socially marginalize your enemy, then people will not mind when you eradicate them.

  • Section9

    No, seriously, when did a Birther post become acceptable at Redstate.

    Get ye Gone, Clyde. This place is for Adults, not Ronulans or Birthers.

  • Section9

    You know, the ones with Henry Gibson from The Blues Brothers? They will always try to paint TEA Party people as extremists as the Obama Administration drives this country over the cliff.

    One of the things that our old acquaintance Lyndon LaRouche did to help out his old Lefty allies was to show up at the Washington Tea party rally with pictures of Obama as Hitler. Not productive at all, but they did it deliberately to make us look bad.

    Meantime, as Palin gets more famous and shows up at TEA functions and kickoffs, expect the Ceour D’eleine, Idaho chapter of the Stormfront to show up all of a sudden at these events in full regalia. I wouldn’t put it past them.

  • AStoner

    Right now there is none. Our government is functioning in a manner in which over 60% of the citizens think it is dysfunctional. I am not going to say that birth certificates are the main problem, it is not even close, but every single angle of potential corruption will cause lingering problems in the system of our government. To say that it is illegitimate and conspiracy nut only is not valid. Having our constitution (contract) protected is the only reason we can remain a country at all. Once the protections of the constitution are voided by either neglect or direct assault, there will be no reason for the United States of America to remain a single country. 13 States ratified the constitution, and they enacted a very specific document, even though they were separate countries of their own right, they gave up some power to the whole in order to be greater than the parts. They did not give up all their rights, and they placed restrictions on the power of the federal government as well as clauses that are intended to protect them from encroachment on their rights. Since that day, 37 additional states have signed onto that document, making a total of 50. There have been many amendments to the document (CONTRACT), but not one state ever signed onto the document saying that the requirement for being president is a negotiable item. Having an argument for an open and verifiable method of proving a person’s eligibility for office should be a valid argument.

    Allowing the MSM and the democrats to frame every argument is as you are doing is a pretty sad way to try and regain the greatness of America.

  • AStoner

    Feel free to get me banned if I am so offensive to you.

  • verbatim

    Mr. Erickson, thanks for attending the convention and reviewing it with a critical yet open minded attitude.

    I read your previous skeptical article and was also concerned based on your points. But I was heartened to hear your comments (http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/02/06/erick-erickson-has-a-change-of-heart-at-national-tea-party-convention/) that the convention was not exactly what you thought it was.

    Right now the Tea Party appears to be a last-best hope.

  • writeblock

    The more ordinary Americans see themselves demonized by the media, the more they complain to their friends and relatives and the more the media loses credibility. Birthers may be a fringe group, but we need to keep dissension in our own ranks at a minimum. Why alienate them? We need to stop playing by the media’s rules, leaning over backwards to be politically correct, etc. We have our own media outlets now–and we can get the truth out. I notice Pelosi isn’t calling tea partiers Nazis now. Neither is the msm. I don’t think it’s belittling our numbers either. They’re terrified. last August signified something bigger than it realized at the time.

  • Mary Beth

    even if there was some sort of hard core data that proved birtherism, it’s so politically toxic that such documentation would be lost in the kerfuffle.

    I think some people see the self-proclaimed “most transparent administration in American history” and bristle…and I think some decided that whatever he’s hiding by sealing in his college transcripts and such has to be related to his eligibility. But like larryp suggested, it could be that there’s some other piece of data that’s embarrassing or that conflicts with the narrative of the Obama campaign.

    My thinking is along the same line as NRO’s McCarthy….that the heart of this issue isn’t about where Obama was born…but about the sense that we really don’t know all that much about him and the data we typically would use to learn these things have been sealed. As McCarthy put it, “the birth-certificate controversy is about Obama?s honesty, not where he was born.”

    I personally think what I said above…there’s something in his transcripts that conflicts with the image he put out about himself…some embarrassing tidbit that negates a part of his narrative… and he doesn’t want it to get out.

    But like you said Steve, as a political matter, it does not matter…and it only serves as a distraction and as a weapon that can be and will be used by the left.

  • Chief1942

    .. the “professionals” who gave us John McCain. Even those who managed his poorly run campaign must bear some responsibility for the damage that whole approach caused to the GOP and particularly to the traditionalist conservative agenda. Want to see how “professionals” conduct themselves? Look at Sarah Palin and her circumstance after the election. I still don’t know if she is genuine or just another creation of the RNCC. I hope and pray she is genuine, considering the price she is paying for her public stances.

  • mriggio

    and your above diary. Thrilled that things didn’t come out as badly as you initially feared they might. As for amateurism (?), I don’t think the TEA Party is really a political party, and I hope it doesn’t degenerate into one. Since this was their first time out, beginner’s mistakes were made; that’s to be expected. As to the dollar amounts, they don’t hold a candle to some of the “professional” conferences I’m forever invited to, and really don’t seem extreme compared to what SP’s charging when she visits my hometown of Washington, Illinois. Since most of these folks are ME, I wish them the best of luck. Thanks again for the reporting, it’s appreciated.

  • Chief1942

    One of the tried and true approaches for gathering in the “independants” into either party is their proclamation that “we are the party of inclusion!”. So how does the Tea Party movement stack up in that sense? I recall that some lady called in to CSPAN and said it looked “like a lynch party” since they were all white folks. I happen to know differently from personal experience here in Arizona, but if that is the perception being drawn across America, the the managers of this Tea Party organization have their work cut out for them. Just how do they see themselves in that respect, Erick? You are there. What are your thoughts?

  • tngal

    Sarah P’s speech to the convention tonight is exactly what it should be. True she’s playing to her base (duh!) and grabbing the low hanging fruit, but she’s hitting the right notes on foreign policy, current administration’s campaign promises v. failures, constitution, etc. Granted she’s had a few days to write this up but at least identifies Israel (ally) and USS Cole (terrorism) in accurate terms. I swear I don’t think there are current lawmakers that know about the Cole.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    If your side isn’t winning them that’s not the fault of the system. That’s your fault for failing.

  • writeblock

    I notice that when someone brings up an issue that’s controversial among ourselves, some will start hurling personal abuse. That sows dissension in the ranks and is counterproductive. Let’s keep discussions civil. The birther issue may be fringe, but it isn’t unreasonable. It’s just an annoyance politically. Why be abusive?

  • traversecityconservative

    For the first time in my life, except for when I ran my own business, I am going to PAY THE IRS this year – and it’s almost $1000! I hope that Pelosi’s family enjoy the cheese and wine that my money will provide them for all of 10 minutes. So good luck to the rest of you who have jobs and are going to get screwed in your tax returns. The losers, however, will probably receive hundreds and hundreds of dollars back just because they are able to birth children while being on welfare.

  • writeblock

    …by the Left’s rules. Everybody’s welcome, black or white. If blacks stay away–and they don’t entirely–then that’s their choice. The movement is color-blind. We shouldn’t give a damn what the left thinks–or what the media says. We have our own measurement for belonging–and it has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the Constitution.

  • writeblock

    …as well. Color is beside the point.

  • writeblock

    I liked her speech. It summed up the cause.

  • Flagstaff

    even after then next election.

    Very, VERY few of the lefty pundits have any idea about what is going on. Even non-leftists don’t understand. The longer they don’t understand, the better, because this movement doesn’t depend upon anybody’s understanding for its life, but if the leftists did understand, they could pretend to participate and siphon off support.

    As long as they believe the fault is in their stars, and not in themselves, we can defeat them.

  • Flagstaff

    the Dems keeping it alive as a means to marginalize the whole conservative movement makes the most sense.

  • gekster

    About a week ago I think, that Obama could solve the problem with the birthers by just showing said cirtificate.
    He said Obama wouldn’t do it simply because it turns attention away from
    the other issues.
    People are waisting time and money on this one thing so to as much do so.
    Other then a good “joke” now and then, it ain’t worth it.

  • ReaganLives

    if Obama has “sealed has own birth certificate and then spent a million dollars in court fights to keep them sealed” then that’s very suspicious. Where did you read that? I thought he gave his birth certificate to ABC news a while back? Is that not true?

  • ReaganLives
  • ReaganLives

    why isn’t the one Obama actually released considered to be his real birth certificate? The wiki article links to dozens of sources that seem to have debunked any claims that his birth certificate is fraudulent.

    I know there’s controversy about it, but, now that I see this, I’m confused as to why. Is there more to the story? I never trust the media….!

    From Wikipedia:

    The Obama campaign released a 2007 certified copy of his short form birth certificate (in this instance referred to as a Certification of Live Birth) that states Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961. A common argument of those questioning Obama’s eligibility is that he has not released a photocopy of his “original” birth certificate, that the use of the term “certification of live birth” on the document means it is not equivalent to one’s “birth certificate”, and that if the document was released, the issue would go away. This argument has been debunked numerous times by media investigations, every Judicial outlet the question has been raised in and Hawaiian Government officials. Every reliable source details the fact that the certificate released and put on the internet by the Obama campaign is Barack Obama’s official birth certificate. [8] Asked about this, Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo stated that Hawaii “does not have a short-form or long-form certificate.”[9] Moreover, the director of her Department has confirmed that the state “has Sen. Obama?s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”[10][11]

  • Rick Greathouse

    So let me get this straight… those who want to support and defend the Constitutional qualification for the office of the President of the United States, which states:

    No person except a natural born Citizen … shall be eligible to the Office of President.

    Those folks really need some professional help before they hurt themselves or the Conservative movement?

    Rather, I think that, perhaps, anyone who would say such a thing would be a Conservative in name only, because where would the Conservative movement be without supporting and defending the Constitution.

  • mbecker908

    dissension on an issue that is not only a non-starter but a big net negative for us.

    It is absolutely, totally unreasonable and unconscionable, it’s way beyond an annoyance because it takes people’s eyes off the target and that is only to beat the left on the issues. And Obama’s birth certificate is NOT an issue. Nationalizing health care, banking, the automotive industry and turning our national security into a subset of the criminal justice system are issues. Those are the things we need to be focusing on and attacking the Obama Administration relentlessly on.

    This guy is a certified troll and a complete idiot. What he deserves is to have gasoline poured him every time he opens his foul mouth.

  • mbecker908

    and political capital on this crap we will continue to lose.

  • mbecker908

    Go back in your cave jackass.

  • mbecker908

    Ed Morrissey at HotAir said it better…

    The wins in Virginia, New Jersey, and Massachusetts over the last three months did not come from people questioning Obama?s birthplace. They resulted from grassroots opposition to the Obama-Nancy Pelosi policy agenda. Scott Brown won the seat held by the Kennedys and their cronies for almost 60 years by pushing back hard against ObamaCare and the counterterrorism policies of the White House. If anything, the continued focus on Birtherism at these rallies undercuts the mainstream nature of the opposition to the Democratic agenda and allows the media to paint it as a paranoid mob obsessed with conspiracy theories. Not only is it not a winning issue, it will hang like an albatross around the necks of conservatives who tacitly or expressly link themselves to it.

  • writeblock

    …regarding the tea party movement. Massachusetts changed everything. The plunging polls of the Dems changed everything. Read tonight’s headlines in the big newspapers, CNN, AP–they’re treating it straight–for what it is, a grass-roots phenomenon rarely seen in American politics. Palin’s speech is being seriously reported–and getting wide attention–and respect, as though she were a presidential candidate. Our situation is tremendously different now vis a vis the opposition. They know we wield power. They are behaving accordingly. They have been absolutely stunned by what has been happening since this summer.

    I think we too have to change in our attitude. We need to stop constantly worrying about how the media portrays us, how we measure up to their standards. They may continue to try to portray us as too white, too dumb, too unsophisticated, too radical–or whatever. But their situation also has radically changed–just as ours has. They no longer really wield the clout they used to–as recent polls will show. How can they if the public is largely conservative and has wised up to their biases? We need to stop looking in the mirror to see how we appear to others. We need to be who we are, warts and all.

  • writeblock

    …make personal attacks on other conservatives. If you can’t be civil, you’re treading on thin ice. Like the rules say, “Be respectful, or be banned.”

  • joebgardener

    I think that sums it up perfectly. Unfortunately loons like Farah are more then willing to exploit this for profit and others seem more than willing to him into the abyss.

    It’s the equivalent of the Dumbocrat moonbats who wanted to charge GWB and his administration with war crimes.

    Embarrassing and sad.

  • Rick Greathouse

    Did you just call me a jackass and label me as a ‘birther’ for my wanting to support and defend the US Constitution?

    If so… then you just slandered all my fellow Veterans who swore the following oath:

    “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

    (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

    And all of Armed Forces who are serving in harms way, who deserve for the Citizens of the Country they serve to ensure that their President meets the qualification for that office as stated in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States.

    Am I and all Veterans who swore that oath, really jackasses and ‘birthers’?

  • Just_Saying

    Neil Stevens at 7:47PM: “And they made their determination.”

    Who are “they”? Nobody with official responsibility for assuring that the president be a “natural born citizen” made such determination, and the Hawaii official who first claimed Obummer was a natural born citizen has revoked that claim.

    As has been said, why the mystery, why the non-transparency?

  • http://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

    Any biker who has gone to a rally…
    Any businessperson who has gone to a convention…
    Any philanthropist who has gone to a fundraiser for a”noble cause”…

    Hell, people drop more money on their pets’ vet bills…

    Is the country not worth the price?

    Why are people making an issue of this?

    It is stupid and petty.

    Now, excuse me while I go polish my Harley.

  • writeblock

    …but it’s no excuse to call somebody a “jackass” or a “complete ass” when they post something. That only alienates somebody on our side. What’s the point of that? The conservative movement should be open to anybody–including those on the so-called fringe. In fact the birther fringe is pretty rational as fringes go–and they usually agree with us on a host of other issues. They’ve been marginalized by the liberal press–but why should we allow them to tell us who’s acceptible and who isn’t? To hell with what the media thinks.

  • writeblock

    I agree and disagree with Morrissey. I agree the media will use the birthers as a means to undercut the mainstream nature of the movement. But I disagree that it matters what they think. The public already KNOWS the truth. How do they know it? Because the public IS the movement. People can’t be fooled into thinking they’re not who they are. People know these are smears. So none of that matters. This particular grass-roots movement is too huge to be falsely characterized.

  • Rick Greathouse

    We need to respect fellow Conservatives too… because you never know when you might label a Veteran who served his country honorably as a jackass and ‘birther’.

    We need to throw out that ‘birther’ label too… because that is very offensive to those of us who want the President to be qualified for the office he holds by virtue of the Constitution.

    We must support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, because without it, where would our Republic be? What would happen to the Rule of Law?

    How much of our Constitution are we going to allow to be whittled away before we take a stand?

    In the run up to the election of 2008, we are all guilty of allowing Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, the “natural born citizen” qualification for the office of President to be trampled under foot by a corrupted election. America has already paid dearly for that in just over the 1st year under an Unconstitutional Illegal Putative President.

  • mbecker908

    These people are creating cover for the Obama Administration and are a distraction from our task.

    This jackass is every bit the enemy that Barack Obama is. Or Joe Biden. Or [pick a Democrat]. They’ve only been marginalized by the media because then the media can trot out idiots like this – and the bozo upthread – and tie them to the Republican agenda.

    What the media thinks happens to be important. And as such, it is very important that we not just marginalize these brain dead jerks but throw them off the nearest tower. They are every bit as loony and probably more dangerous than the troofers.

  • mbecker908
  • mbecker908

    And you can add damned fool to the list. See Ed Morressey’s note below.

  • mbecker908

    a raving idiot. I almost said loon, but they’re beautiful bird and he’s a damn fool. Who needs to be marginalized right off the edge of the canyon.

    Birthers are every bit the lunatics that the Troofers are.

  • writeblock

    I also think any big movement–it’s a peaceful revolution actually–is going to have disagreements. It comes with the territory. It’s impossible to get ten people in a room not to disagree on something, let alone millions. But when it counts–at the ballot box–we’re unified, totally–and the left knows it. It’ll try to sow dissent–but will fail.

    As for the GOP leadership–it’ll get on board. Why? Because our numbers matter.

  • hickorystick

    Jackasses, just you. It gets real confusing when you consider McCain was born in Panama. Obama’s mother was a citizen (if Kansas meets your Constitutional requirements for statehood), so who really cares where the baby was dropped.

  • mbecker908

    The great majority of veterans, my son being my most current example, understand the process of rational thought.

    You don’t.

  • writeblock

    Freerepublic, for instance, is full of birthers. It’s a conservative site. They’re conservatives.

  • mbecker908

    they are conservative idiots. Who need a serious time out.

    Hell, you could have bounced in here during the primaries and made a case that Ron Paul’s acolytes were “conservatives” too. And they might will be. But it doesn’t change the fact that they’re idiots and they aren’t on our side.

    If you object to idiot, use “damned fool”.

  • hickorystick

    and learned a lot from him.
    wish you still had that Cheney sig line thing, I loved that

  • Common_Cents

    What a difference. Palin was good, positive. Obama blamed blamed blamed. Zero substance. Regurgitating the same lies and “fighting for you” against the boogeyman. Telling us how bad America is and how we are all victims.

    Watch Obama give a speech on fast forward on your recorder. Looks like he is violently shaking his head no from his teleprompter whiplash moves. The only other time I see that is at a tennis match.

  • Rick Greathouse

    Be respectful, or be banned. No Profanity.

    mbecker908 stated, regarding writeblock:

    This guy is a certified troll and a complete idiot. What he deserves is to have gasoline poured him every time he opens his foul mouth.

    Whether he meant “in him” or “on him” doesn’t matter.

    writeblock does not deserve to have gasoline poured “in him/on him” for posting his opinion in comments on articles at RedState.

    Any one in their right mind would not even suggest such a thing be done to a fellow human being, because of a disagreement about politics.

  • Rick Greathouse

    mdecker908 deserves to be banned for stating the following regarding writeblock:

    This guy is a certified troll and a complete idiot. What he deserves is to have gasoline poured him every time he opens his foul mouth.

  • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

    He was speaking to writeblock about Astoner.

  • gekster

    tell ya what.
    Take your pants of, then shake them out.
    Put the back on and you will feel better.
    LOL

  • aesthete

    I don’t really like the direction that the Tea Party movement is going. The Tea Party movement is too disparate to claim any unifying principles, and nationalizing it requires that some vision or other of the Tea Party movement will prevail. I like that the Tea Party movement, up till now, has been a low entry cost, low-commitment way to express discontent towards the government, and that it has had very little set leadership. Indeed, I thought that those were the movement’s defining traits! Establishing national forays into organization risks abolishing these benefits, and in exchange, provides nothing that alternate arrangements can’t provide. Whatever else happens at the “Tea Party Convention” in Tennessee, I hope that any attempts at centralization fail miserably, as they should.

  • Third Street

    I don’t see anywhere for the Tea Party movement to go, that would allow it to both retain its independence from party (and thus its purpose) and not serve as a spoiler factor for the GOP. That’s why I worry about it coalescing into a bona fide third party movement, because that’s the logical place that its current course will take it.

  • AStoner

    Almost every aspect of it is covered by progressive activists who are given the power to edit the pages on Wiki as well as delete entire pages and ban people who do not tow the power user’s line, which as I said is primarily progressive activists.

  • discerningconservative

    The Tea Party movement is stronger when it stays on the local level. You cannot expect people in Los Angeles, CA to rally around the same issues as people in Lima, OH. If the Tea Party movement is going to remain a force, it must remain a local force. If there is an attempt to nationalize this movement, it will almost certainly be lost. This movement is something that outside forces should not try to manipulate, but instead let grow individually.

    On a side note… I did notice one stark difference in Sarah Palin’s speech at the convention, compared to the many speeches given by Barack Obama. She didn’t mention herself (I, me, my administration, ect…) aside from saying she was happy to be there and being proud to be an American.

  • discerningconservative

    coming from the Tea Party movement. It is nowhere near organized enough to pull it off. If the movement remains as a local effort, rallying around local issues, I see it as a very positive effort. If people continue to try to manipulate the movement into a national effort, I see it dissipating into nothing. I think that the people of this nation have awaken enough to not let that happen.

  • AStoner

    That is just what Americans are looking for, people who do not have the strength of conviction to actually stand up and tell them what they believe. That is why they are so in love with Obama, because he is willing to go out on the line day after day and lie about who he is, what he wants and where he would take America. This is why the Tea Parties will remain apart, because of weak people who refuse to stand on morals. We can give up this right, because it can be used against us, b bu but we will win on other issues. Yeah right, if you really believe that anyone who can hide his past well enough should be allowed to be the President of the United States of America, I do not want you on my side, and I think that the majority of Tea Party people feel that there should be a transparent mechanism that allows every person in this country the ability to see evidence of a persons real history, and they do not have to even beleive that Obama is not a citizen and is 100% elligible for the office he currently holds.

  • discerningconservative

    Let’s assume for a minute that Obama was born outside of the country (besides evidence to the contrary). What do we do about it? People have already tried to challenge it in court, with no luck. What next? Another question… If we were able to produce evidence that Obama isn’t a citizen, and therefore not eligible to be President, do you really want Joe Biden to be President? Bottom line, nothing birthers say or do is going to prevent President Obama from being President. The only way to get him out of office is impeachment (not likely), voting him out in 2012 (hopeful), term limited in 2016 (please NO), or his untimely death (which again would leave it to Joe Biden). This is a non-issue, and the sooner the birthers realize that, the better.

  • writeblock

    …that liberals often use this same technique to delegitimize “Swift Boaters” and “death panels.” There are real discrepancies in Obama’s official birth narrative, chief among them is how his mother managed to give birth in Hawaii, cross the Pacific, find a job and an apartment, and register officially as a student at the University of Seattle–all within two weeks. American Thinker has an article on this today by Jack Cashill–a scholar, not a crackpot.

  • AStoner

    I could care less about Obama’s citizenship right now. It is a non issue for me. But I do care about our country and the future. There will be more elections. Why should we not have a well defined document, such as the Constitution of the United States of America, be transparently enforced so that we know for certain that our government is in fact following the contract? No contract, no country, and if the contract is not followed then why should the citizens trust and remain loyal to the country the contract creates?

    Our country is at a point in which many citizens are not trusting the government. It is not showing that it can be trusted to follow the contract which grants it powers and to be trusted with the powers granted it. That is what the Tea Party is about. A questioning of the contract that creates America. We are watching as trillions of dollars are being stolen from our posterity and wondering where the government got the power to do that. We are watching as the government takes control of private businesses and wondering, where did the government get the power to do that. We are watching as the government decides if we are worthy of medical care and what medical care we are worthy of and wondering, where did the government get that power. We are watching while the government prevents companies from providing the goods and services we desire to have, such as oil and natural gas and electricity and wondering where did the government get that power. We are watching while the government works on legislation to make claims that our very breath is a pollutant that must be controlled, CO2 which is needed for every single activity that involves people and wondering where did the government get hat power.

    And here on Red State and every other Establishment Conservative Blog we are wondering wondering why you think that we are some kind of leper because we question why it is bad to ask that those who wish to be our public servants should not be required to provide proof of eligibility for office. I am not a birther in the idea that I think Obama is not a citizen or eligible, but his actions cause more distrust of government and since he has taken as large an undertaking to keep his past secret, it has led many Americans to question whether it is a good idea to allow this kind of underhanded poisoning of the well to happen in the future.

    Why is my voice so offensive to people like mbecker? I have framed this in the most policially correct manner possible. It does not question Obama’s citizenship, it just makes the case that we the people have the right to know that our contract is being followed.

  • discerningconservative

    But, the voters decided in November, 2008 that Barack Obama would be our President. The issues you raise might be legitimate, but they needed to be not only raised, but settled, prior to the election. Questioning them now is pointless. There are many other issues that need to be focussed on, now.

  • AStoner

    It was set up to be a tutoring place for Local Tea Party Leaders so that they can better organize on a local level, and to give the person who organized it some potential national street cred. He wants to be a big shot, and I do not fault him for it, as I think that real Tea Party can see through B.S. as they have recently woken up from the B.S. our government has been passing for the last 15 years.

    Thus, it should not be seen as some shunning of grassroots people, as they were not the intended target audience for the main events, their local leaders were.

    As long as the people who went get something from it, such as lessons learned, how to organize, how to set up fund drives or local events, or get on the internet in a strong way, then everyone wins.

  • AStoner

    Or do you just look at my name and start attacking?

    I DO NOT CARE ABOUT OBAMA’S CITIZENSHIP, I USED TO BEFORE THE ELECTION, BUT AS YOU SAY, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED PRIOR TO JANUARY 20TH 2009.

    I AGREE WITH YOU. GOT IT?

    The thing I do not agree with is that we are going to allow this exact same potential flaw in the system remain there into the future.

  • discerningconservative

    that’s cute. You used a bunch of capital letters. I’m impressed now.

    My point is that it is a non-issue. We have Barack Obama as our President. There are much more pressing issues than birtherism. The 2008 Presidential elections have passed, and elections have consequences. Deal with it.

  • AStoner

    The people do not get to decide who our president will be. At least not a 50% +1 of electors. The constitution was passed by the states, and requires 2/3 majority states for enactment, so nothing short of a constitutional amendment can allow Arnold Schwarzenegger to be president, even if all 50 states vote to elect him. No person can legally hold the office no matter who voted for him short of meeting the said terms of the Constitution of the United States of America. The only reason they could hold that position and not meet the requirements is if our contract, the Constitution of the United States of America is defacto nul and void.

  • writeblock

    …but if they’re against Obama, they’re with us. You need to be more civil. Why make this something major by calling people idiots and jackasses? How does that help us stay unified?

  • discerningconservative

    What do we do about it? What do you think happens if Obama is found not eligible to be President? Funny how you say

    I DO NOT CARE ABOUT OBAMA?S CITIZENSHIP

    , and then come back with this tripe. You are a troll and a birther.

  • discerningconservative

    pandering to the idiotic fringe is beneficial to the party? Please explain how that works.

  • writeblock

    …Too many ordinary citizens haven’t got a clue how to effect change on the precinct level. To the degree these meetings help some people with that, they’re useful. But the visible existence of the movement itself is enough–attending rallies, supporting conservative candidates financially, getting out to vote–that’s where the power lies.

    Massachusetts was like a natural disaster for Democrats–an earthquake or tsunami. Just ordinary people connecting with one of their own and elevating him in an instant to superstardom. Kerry may be the senior senator from MA–but nobody can doubt who will have the real clout in that state from now on. That says more about the movement than any more formal organization would.

  • writeblock

    Sarah Palin’s speech actually justified the convention by amplifying what the tea partiers want to convey to Washington. She used it as a platform not to further her own political ends but to give voice to tea party aspirations and complaints. That was evident by the rousing standing ovations. She was totally at one with her audience. Today the NYTimes and Washington Post are giving her ample–and respectful–coverage–and Fox, CNN, MSNBC and C-Span covered the speech as well. That alone made the event worthwhile since it provided a focal point for us to send another forceful message to Washington. So it ended up very useful.

  • Adjoran

    Let this be a lesson to her “people”: find out ahead of time who else is speaking. If there are speakers with whom you do not wish to be associated (assuming it is not a debate, but a meeting of supposedly like-minded people), DON’T GO.

    Guys like Tancredo and Farah bring a lot of baggage into the “Tea Party” movement that doesn’t belong there. Why didn’t they just invite Raimondo?

    Palin doesn’t need her “brand” damaged by association, however tangential, to the likes of these fringe nuts.

  • Adjoran

    They don’t remember him at Columbia, either, but he actually claims to have gone there. Then Harvard Law – via Affirmative Action, which is why he won’t release his Columbia transcripts (Bush, Gore, and Kerry all did, although all were “C” students).

    But all that’s small potatoes, and your disturbed ravings will be reported to the appropriate authorities, mmmkay? So you know they are watching you, right?

  • Adjoran

    This is my concern. Buchanan and his ilk are marginalized for a reason, and the Tea Party movement ought to stay the heck away from them, even if they offer to pay for nice brown – I mean, “tea-colored” – shirts.

    Now, if by “reaching out” you mean “offering them Christ’s unconditional love and unearned redemption, I’m all for it. If you mean, “bringing the Jew-hating wackos into our ‘big tent,’” I’m afraid you just earned a ticket to FringeLand, where every nut can find a tree . . .

  • ReaganLives

    For hard news — not commentary.

  • ocleverone

    is because he didn’t go there. He went to Occidental, Columbia, then Harvard.

    Perhaps you should refine your search to college he actually attended.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    Some parts of it just haven’t figured that out yet and are still flopping around like fish trying to breathe out of the water.

    I know of at least three times when falsified Obama birth certificates were submitted… verifiably false.

    When you have to do something false to prove you’re right, how is that any better than the progressive position that the means are not important so long as they produce the desired end?

    In your heart of hearts you can believe what you want but harping about it publicly is going to do absolutely no good at this point and will, instead, do harm.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    The states that went for Obama all selected Presidential electors, and they made that determination when they submitted their votes for Obama for President.

    Their job is not invalidated just because you’re ignorant as to their identities.

    There’s no mystery here. There’s no secrecy. It’s just your ignorance as to our Presidential elections process.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    You are here by the pleasure of management.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • mbecker908

    If an idiot walked into your living room and crapped in the middle of your living room floor I suppose you’d just smile and say “Nice pile”, because that is precisely what these guys are doing here.

    They aren’t conservatives, without regard to their occasional vote, any more than SIVV, RonPaul Acolytes or Troofers are. They aren’t against Obama either, because by fanning the flames of this stupidity they are helping by allowing him to deflect criticism of his policies.

    There is no rationale for unifying with brain-dead jerks and conspiracy theorists. They detract from the credibility of rational arguments about real issues.

  • eldstenorge

    I was more impressed than I thought I would be, and I was very impressed with Sarah Palin and what she said, and how she said it. I disagree with Erick on the birther issue, or whatever you want to call it. I will say this though, we will not know the truth of this until we stand before our Maker. Obama and the Democrats are so corrupt they have hidden everything and it will never come to lite. It is, however, an important issue, as it is part of the Constitution. There are just, right now, other things which can serve the purpose here because of the horrible manner in which we are not being governed. So, yes, it does make us look stupid because of the way the liberal media has spun this and conservatives not standing with each other on the issue and bringing before the American people why this is so important and that it is, in fact, a Constitutional requirement. I do not think most people even understand this. The evidence is out there, it has not been accepted, so let’s move on to areas and issues we can win and properly present to the American people.

  • mbecker908

    Check his posting history.

  • justawhoaman

    All he cares about is his website and HIS “cause” that he thinks he is carrying. He is a joke. More than one person, including plenty of legal minds, have asked him to drop the birth certificate issue because it is simply irrelevant. He continues to harp on it and, therefore, continues to weaken the case for anyone whose interest is in defending the Constitution (for future elections).

    As a dual citizen, Obama has divided interests and weakens our national security. The whole issue about Ochimpo’s citizenship, whether or not he is a natural born citizen, is with regards to his dual citizenship. Of course Omao is a US citizen… but he is also a dual citizen. That is the Constitutional conflict. Farrah’s questioning Obummer’s status as a US citizen, creating the whole “birther” movement, in my opinion, could very well be part of the progressive plan to make the real questions seem ridiculous… and causing us to make enemies within our conservative ranks.

    The comments made herein seem to support this idea. I will admit, however, that while I feel very strongly in my belief in this conflict, I do not understand the incredible anger and personal attacks. I have to come to expect this from libtards, but not from conservatives. Because I do not have loathing for those who do not share my beliefs, I do not understand this seeming hatred for those of us who continue to see the natural born citizen issue as legitimate.

  • portlanddoc

    I am glad you went, Erick, I would have liked to have been there myself.

    I agree that the national media is taking a look at the TP movement and giving it due coverage. More coverage than the Green Party/Nader movement in 2000 got, and look what they did! They threw the election to the GOP.

    For me, Sarah Palin is a negative influence. She is a phony. She is. She is not informed, she is not curious, she is not intelligent. She speaks well to a crowd and knows how to hit the language just right. Sound familiar?

    Her governance in Alaska was a horrible thing. She abused her position by going after people personally. This is not small government.

    She abused her position for gain for her family. This is not honest government.

    She advocated for huge pet projects. This is not fiscal responsibility.

    She disavowed all of these things. Too cowardly to admit to her faults. Sound familiar?

    Then, she dropped the hot potato into the lap of her Lt Gov, leaving him to clean up her mess so she could go on the road, make money and fame on the wave of a genuine grassroots movement for liberty.

    It’s the worst kind of opportunism and anything she touches will turn off 25% of independent voters, such as myself.

    I am for free markets in all areas of society, including behavior and families and religion and drugs. Her idea of a “free market” means low taxation and high government dictation of behavior.

    Sarah Palin is a phony and I wish she would stop trying to “advance” the cause of liberty. We the People are doing it just fine without her.

  • SteveLA

    But remember the tale: Kejserens nye Kl?der

  • Achance
  • SteveLA

    Oh my

  • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

    as far as “troll” and “idiot” goes. I part ways with him on the gasoline part. Last thing we need is something else contributing to global warming, or climate change, or greenhouse gases, whatever the ostriches on the left are calling it now post CRU-gate. :)

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    I won’t translate here so that others have to do their research too.

    Perhaps tears is more apropos than absence.

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    tiresome….

  • http://jeffersonrebels.blogspot.com ericathunderpaws

    FYI. It’s always interesting to drop into the enemy’s camp. The jabbers at Politijab (http://politijab.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=34d667f4bdc552fabc5378696c237ba3) are dropping in to RedState and then commenting on their blog. They really hate Palin and the whole tea party movement.

    If you want to feel the hate for ALL things conservative, you can read a lot of their threads without registering, but if you really want to see where they throw knives, register and new threads open up. To use the search box, you must register. Don’t forget to search for redstate.

    Arrogance is a virtue on Politijab. They epitomize the term “Alinskyites”. I can’t help but wonder if a one or two has managed to register on RedState. If they comment, do they truthfully reveal themselves as liberals, or do they pretend to be conservatives? Do you all remember that Cass Sunstein proposed “cognitive infiltration” of blogs in his abstract titled “Conspiracy Theories”? Regardless of the thread you’re participating on at RedState, it’s something to remember. The Salon article is scathing in its analysis, and it links directly to the abstract. Be sure to read page 15, “Governmental Responses”.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/15/sunstein/index.html

  • Scope

    and being a member for less than 10 days, apparently you missed the thousands of comments on Palin pro and against that have taken place here in the past. Without doubt, your comment has been one of the biggest emotional outbursts, lacking in any proof or rational thought, but, loaded with your own personal venom. Do you feel better that you were able to unload some of that hatred you are carrying around?

    I have been more than a little dissapointed with Palin because of her support for McCain and Rand Paul, but they are rational reasons to question someone and their motives.

    I thought Palin did OK with her speech at the Tea Party function last night, and, in the question and answer period after the speech, I was relieved to here her say she did not support “third parties.” She put her support right back with the Republicans, but, did say the inside the beltway elites cannot run the Republican party, and, I and so many others could not agree more. That is why I question her support of McCain, as he is the premier inside the beltway elite Republican party idiot.

    I thought her interview with Chris Wallace this morning was a very good interview, and I was satisified with most of her answers and statements. I did not buy her reason for supporting Rand Paul. If you have to qualify your support with “but I don’t agree with him” on many issues, you shouldn’t be supporting him to begin with. She could lend her voice and donations to those she has more closely held principles with. I hope she is learning that she is only harming her own Reagan conservative ideas by supporting what I consider to be “rogue” or “maverick” candidates that are not supported by the Tea Party folks she wants to be a part of. I hope she learns sooner rather than later, as she can be a powerful voice in the taking back of the Republican party.

  • Scope

    to the NYT or Washington Post? They are always looking for as many Palin Dereagement Syndrome letters as they can get. Makes for good Sunday morning Commentary sections in the rags. It goes so well with that glass of Sunday morning Kool-Aid.

  • kchand

    Let me say that I believe pushing the birth certificate issue does harm to the conservative movement and puts us all in a bad light. However, why call the PERSON a jackass? Why the personal attack? The comment or idea may be asinine, which is fair game, but why not just leave it at that?

    I just hate sights that tolerate such name-calling; it really detracts for the debate and diminishes the site.

  • Scope

    I would think that this emotional irrational deranged rant would even be below Achance, as, he has posted against anyone buying into something strictly because of emotions. I’m sad to see I was wrong. I guess exhilarants come in all forms.

  • portlanddoc

    …I’ve been a member for 10 days? How long does one have to be a member before his dissent is valid?

  • Maggie_in_Indiana

    The people holding the sings and marching all over the nation are the ones donating to the candidates like Scott Brown. They are ones who go regular local meetings,write letters to their congress critters ,newspapers,and to the White House. Not just once but most on a weekly basis. Some more. They call their friends and family to keep them updated if they don’t have cable or the internet. And they save to go to Washington,or donate to the candidates and to their local chapters by buying T-shirts,mugs and pumper stickers.

    The leaders of these local chapters are replaced more often than you think,some by choice and some are pitched on their ear for getting too big for their britches. Someone has to make the first move ,whether to call a march,a local protest on the courthouse lawn,or to have a convention. We had to start somewhere and live and learn.

    Don’t fall off your chairs if you see the Tea Party movement somewhere in the country support a conservative Democrat. It is still a group of ticked off Americans of R’s D’s and I’s that want our government to work for us as the constitution and the founders intended.

  • Achance

    and it’s first hand knowledge. I must say, I’ve been spending a lot of time with the Legislature lately and it is a totally different and much better atmosphere there now that she belongs to the Nation rather than just to Alaska.

  • SteveLA

    portlanddoc

    Just drink deeply of the Wallisa flavored favor-aid and no matter how long you’ve been here and all your postings will be valid, approved and heralded.

    Resistance is futile…you will be assimilated.

  • mbecker908

    to your question but I can tell you that if you’re not equating Sarah as a greater god than Barrack four years and several months isn’t long enough.

  • janshaw22

    Congress should define “natural born citizen.” In fact it should have been done prior to OBAMA being the Democratic nominee. But, at this point it should not affect the current presidency.

    At the time of the founding, citizenship was based on being here at the founding, being born to a citizen, or being naturalized. the idea of citizenship due to birth location did not come into affect until after the civil was.

    I suspect that the founders wanted to ensure that the president would be loyal to the USA and NO other country. So, in my opinion, location of birth is not relevant. Both parents being citizens (and no adoptive parents from other countries.) should mater. Location should not. We do not want to exclude people who were born overseas do to parents being in the military or even missionaries.

  • Maggie_in_Indiana

    at first they were all on board. They liked the idea. Who told them it wasn’t kosher ? Yep mistakes were made and now they know it, Wanna bet they all move on and pool the knowledge they gathered and learn from those mistakes. This movement is here to stay and gets tweaked on a daily basis. Remember it started from a rant by one guy who just had a belly full and exploded on live TV. Look how far it has come. This year those who sit and report are about to get a real lesson. I just hope they can keep up.

  • Achance

    mmmmm mmmmmm mmmmm.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    Like it or not, there are a lot of people who believe that Obama was not vetted for office according to the standard defined in the law, and many of them have naturally gravitated to the Tea Parties. Most of these people are not principled conservatives who already know and understand the principles that made America the exceptional republic it is. But they are being drawn into the Tea Party movement because they still have a certain amount of respect for the rule of law. They do not believe that laws are meant to discriminate in favor of certain preferred minorities, or that laws should be warped to steal money from investors and give it to unions, or that government supplied cheese and hypodermic needles are legitimate concerns of government.

    What are we doing rejecting them instead of accepting them and redirecting their concerns from this technicality, which we all agree is a loser of an issue, to all the other, more important rule of law issues that concern us all? The Constitution is the most fundamental law of the land in America, and there is an all-out assault on it. The Democrat-controlled legislature neither reads its most important legislation nor writes it, and is thereby admitting it is both incompetent and also selling its influence to the organizations that do write legislation. Add this to the complete distortion of the Constitutional doctrine of enumerated powers and their replacement by references to the cruelly tortured clauses of ‘general welfare’ and ‘interstate commerce’ for every single wide-ranging, unconstitutional, unamerican power grab by the federal government, and what you get is a serious violation of the rule of law.

    Those who believe that Obama never produced his birth certificate and other documentation are going to be attacked by Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself), but we should not mock them. Rather, we should help them open their eyes to the much worse violations of the rule of law that have been going on for a century, since the progressive movement began in America with its plan to deny freedom to the common man and restore him to his traditional position as a servant of his elitist ‘betters.’

    And yes, I’m talking about demonizing Teddy Roosevelt, John Dewey, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Margaret Sanger, H.G. Wells, and all the other architects of the progressive movement. Glenn Beck, who speaks the language of Tea Partiers more than any other person is already doing it. It’s the right thing to do. Why are we fighting it?

  • pilgrim

    http://www.redstate.com/pilgrim/2010/02/06/blue-and-gray-then-and-now/

    Their study ranked Alaska number 1 for personal freedom, but not one of the top 17 states for being the most free.

  • mbecker908

    you – and your ilk – refuse to address the real issues facing the country. Call it what you want, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re a birther. Your pathetic final paragraph admits that all you’re doing is dressing your birther frame in a cute little doll outfit and trying to pass it off as something it’s not.

    You are a pathetic little troll.

  • Maggie_in_Indiana

    I think Sarah Palin is weeding out some by having no public opinion because she doesn’t agree with some of their views. In some districts maybe she is supporting the pick of the litter, against a stronger field of Democrats. One GOP candidate with some dirt on him is better than a well funded raving liberal.

  • Achance

    all that free by any standard; we have more than our fair share of lefty nanny-staters. What Alaska mostly has going for it in terms of personal freedom is that most of it has no local government at all so that while there are lots of crazy laws on the book somewhere, there’s nobody to enforce them and there’s nobody that cares. I can fire up my boat and in half an hour be in absolute wilderness.

    Economically, Alaska is a socialist state with a command economy driven almost entirely by oil revenue. The practical engines of that economy are State spending and State employment. When I was Alaska’s director of labor relations only a couple of corporate boardrooms in Houston and London had more power over the Alaska economy than my office. What passes for a private sector economy is highly regulated and the high costs induced by Jones Act shipping and distance as well as the scarcity of private land pose enormous barriers to entry. And while Alaska has no personal income taxes, its taxes on large businesses, i.e., oil companies, are onerous and many, including me, think those taxes create a significant disincentive to further oil development, a real issue with the declining production from Prudhoe Bay and its satellite fields. It is not coincidental that the Parnell Administration and the Legislature are considering re-visiting Gov. Palin’s highly touted ACES Taxation scheme.

  • penguin2

    movement “threw the election to the GOP?” Was that a bad thing?

    Anyway, I am going to stay neutral on Sarah, but I do think your post stinks of a emtoional rant, and you just looked for an opportunity to do it.

    For me, Sarah Palin is a negative influence. She is a phony. She is. She is not informed, she is not curious, she is not intelligent. She speaks well to a crowd and knows how to hit the language just right. Sound familiar?

    Can you prove she is “not informed, not curious, not intelligent?” There are others who do have some negative opinions, but those particular words of yours require substance, not just an opportunity to dump on her.

  • hickorystick

    It’s not what the guy says but what he is, or more exactly, not. He is too afraid to define himself, or spend his time and energy supporting something to make the country better, that doesn’t personally benefit himself. He is quick to cut down others, but adds nothing positive. Probably voted for the Death with Dignity law. Just another dope smoking, cynical, personal libertarian that is more than willing utilize big government if there is something that he wants. There a dime-a-dozen in the NorthWest Cities.

  • janis

    So, portland, will you answer the question? Do you think it was a bad thing that the 2000 election was “thrown to the GOP” by the Greens/Ralph Nader?

  • pilgrim
  • portlanddoc

    about

    “too quick to cut down others but adds nothing positive”

    followed oh so closely buy

    “Just another dope-smoking, cyincal, personal libertarian that is more than wiling to utilize big government if there is something he wants”

    Yeah, I skip the “this is me and what I believe and why I’m right” on all the boards I visit. What’s the point of them? I’m an anonoymous reader and occasional poster. You either care what I think or you don’t.

    I am an independent voter completely disgusted by BOTH major parties and looking for a place where my energy can be of use. I am a dime a dozen.

    I DO rant about Palin because she is co-opting the energy of the grassroots for her own gain. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by her star power.

    I WAS aghast at the ridiculous 2000 election. How did I feel about GW Bush? You probably don’t want to hear about it. Just look at the mess he left and there is your answer.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    We really don’t have time for people like you who are “disgusted” with us and “laughing” at us.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Plus, the Congress already defined same.

    Your ignorance is the only issue here.

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    which means you’ve been sitting at home for the last couple elections…or did you vote for algore in 2000?

  • Achance
  • aesthete

    then they are doing an awful job of promoting it as such, and their haphazard unprofessionalism does them no favors in that regard, either. Also, if tutoring is the intention of the committee, why invite pundits and political celebrities at all? Whatever else you can say about Sarah Palin, Andrew Breitbart, and Joseph Farah, none of them have become famous because of their organizational abilities. The Convention seems to want to be a a mecca and focal point for the movement when it’s convenient, and a seminary for Tea Party thought and organization (?) when it’s not. You can disagree with me, but I don’t want Tea Party localism infringed upon, or for Tea Partiers to have to explain the association of some “leader” or other who claims the Tea Party mantle, and the “Tea Party Convention” doesn’t help in that regard. Again, tutoring for increased efficacy can be done without explicitly drawing on the Tea Party name, and the problems that will result from centralization (however unintentional) aren’t worth it.

  • aesthete

    Takes more effort than it’s worth. If after three fraudulent birth certificates “proving” Obama’s foreign origins, a contemporary newspaper reporting Obama’s birth, Obama’s mom’s status as a citizen, several failed legal challenges, and a year of the American people (rightly) not giving a rip hasn’t gotten them to focus on something else, nothing will. Is Obama hiding something in his BC? I don’t know; he could be. But that has nothing to do with the “natural born citizen” Constitutional requirements, and since said newspaper, and Obama’s mom’s status as a citizen, constitute proof, there’s no point in wasting our time on something that won’t yield results.

    Joseph Farah insisting on pushing this crap is just embarrassing, and shows a lack of seriousness that will be required if we’re to 1) take Congress and 2) truly hold our leaders accountable. People defending his using the Tea Party Convention as a forum for this stupidity (read: people defending the “birther” movement in the context of this post) are, similarly, unserious, and getting them to the point of usefulness is more often than not a fools’ errand.

    With that in mind, we shouldn’t attack truly ignorant “birthers”; i.e., people who don’t know the facts on hand. But when they persist in their ignorance, and don’t get off the subject, they should be repudiated as strongly as possible. Their views are damaging, inaccurate, and a waste of time, and the sooner that we can disassociate ourselves from them, the better.

  • janis

    I know all the knocks against her. Mostly those knocks are there because people want to preemptively cancel out any possibility that she will ever run for higher office. For any other politician, people would be willing to sit back and wait to see what she does or doesn’t do.

    Regardless of anything else, whatever else she may or may not do, she brings me joy and she gives me hope. The joy comes from watching a person do what they’re good at– she knows how to lift people up, to make them smile, to let them know that she sees things the way they do…… And the hope comes because we have a terrible battle in front of us and it will be bloody and hard and there will be dark days and nights. But she gives me hope that, at the end of it, we will be Americans. A country full of people who are optimists and who love their freedom more than they do anything other than God. For those two things, joy and hope, she should be cherished by our side. I didn’t say elected, I said CHERISHED.

  • Third Street

  • Third Street
  • penguin2

    You said that so well. Wounding ourselves and letting ourselves be chum in the water for the sharks does nothing for us, except let the sharks kill.

    It is reasonable to believe and accept an individual like Sarah, for what she does for our party. If she is a good motivational speaker for our side that is to be valued, not denigrated. If we only put out hatred toward her and any other potential candidates we may not like, we are destroying ourselves. One of the most wonderful things about conservatism, is the positive perspective and view of life that we have.

    Are we not the party of light, not darkness?

  • ReaganLives

    I don’t understand how that’s any different than having notes on an index card/notepad? Don’t all speakers use notes to refer to? I don’t understand why they think its’ such a big gaffe. They’re alone in thinking that, since the normally idiotic MSM is ignoring the story.

    I’m not sure I’m linking right, but here’s the story: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/7/4254/92035
    If it doesn’t work, just mosey over to dailykos and you’ll see it in the top right column…..that’s where they’re all freaking out.

  • janis

    Reading comprehension is your friend. A distant friend, perhaps, but still your friend. Read what I said again. If you still think it’s a campaign ad, then you cannot read at all.

  • http://jeffersonrebels.blogspot.com ericathunderpaws

    And for that reason I created a graphic following Palin’s speech and posted it on RedState:

    Sarah Palin: Messenger for Common Sense!
    http://redstate.com/ericathunderpaws/

  • penguin2

    and be nasty. Your whole purpose in doing this was very similar to the guy who just was bid adios.

    You do it every time, that seems to be bad faith posting to me, Third. You want to heckle and belittle those that are trying to have reasonable discourse. When you do this it seems like you have little respect for many of your fellow members here at RedState.

    IMO, it is trolling a diary to cause trouble.

  • aesthete

    but at this point, I’m starting to think that that’s a bad thing, when it comes to untested politicians who have aspirations for higher office.

    Hope and joy are both great things, but neither is a good determinant for whether a person is trustworthy, sincere, or qualified, and it seems that many (not you, IMO) think that they are good substitutes for experience and accomplishments in determining the merit of a politician.

  • penguin2

    hour after Neil, bid him adieu. I have said it before, you look to come into the Sarah Palin diaries and do this stuff.

  • janis

    As to determining if someone is trustworthy, sincere, or qualified, those are things that will bear out in time. Must we decide this very minute if this woman is all of that? Do we have to be so quick to shove someone into a nice little box so we can feel comfortable about them?

    I never said to vote for her for POTUS. I never even said that I wanted to see her run for higher office. I said simply what I believe her gifts are at this point: she gives me joy and she brings me hope. She doesn’t make me hope that she’ll be president, she brings me hope that the fight we face will be ultimately successful and that we will be free at the end of it.

    If we are at a point when we cannot allow someone to inspire us, to help to lift us up to face the fight, to allow someone to help to steady the flame of freedom in our hearts, then we are lost already to the darkness. Sarah Palin is one person, not the whole fight, not the whole leadership in that fight. She is one person.

    But she has an undeniable voice and a spirit that lights a fire in others. Follow her anywhere? No. But I will certainly be interested to see where she goes and if it’s a direction that I’m interested in going myself. I’m willing to give her time to see what her efforts will bear. The same as I’m willing to give Paul Ryan, Bobby Jindal, or any of the other bright lights on the Right. No one’s saying that they can or can’t run, are they? She has gifts we can put to good use. So all I’m saying is– let’s do that.

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    in the not to distant future….I for one can’t wait…

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    Barry makes ‘teleprompter’ a household name…what a bunch of losers

  • Third Street

    to me, “bad faith posting” is launching personal attacks on anyone who dares to notice that this woman is an empty skirt — which, I’ve noticed, is all the Palinistas can do in lieu of facts.

  • oblio

    “A country full of people who are optimists and who love their freedom more than they do anything other than God.”

    In fact, I don’t believe he has EVER used the word freedom at all.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • janis

    So anyone who says a positive thing about Sarah Palin is a “Palinista”? And how about those who cannot write a word about her without calling her things like “empty skirt”? Why is that this woman threatens people like you so much? I can understand Achance having the perception of her that he does as he’s an Alaskan who worked in government there. You have no such experience to bolster your opinions of the lady in question. What you keep harping on is solely based on your negative feelings about her.

    So you’re an “anti-Palinista.” Big frigging whoop. On her worst day, she still commands more attention than you would if you stood up in public and lit yourself on fire.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    All that matters for legislators is how they will vote on bills, the decision on most of which are quite simple. The only thing that matters is ideology. I compare the job of a legislator to that of a barber, who sells two things: patter and the actual haircut. Its nice to have stimulating conversation, but what matters is how the hair looks.

    All that matters from a legislator is whether he votes yea or nay on tax cuts, etc, and most liberals who vote wrong have experience and accomplishments.

    In a Cheif Executive, character also matters, given all they can do behind closed doors that doesn’t have to eventually see the light of day in an actual vote on a written bill.

    But even there, I want a President with poor character that will defend us over a good man with great character that is a weak…

    liberal.

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    and BTW…Folks that don’t like Palin, such as yourself, are far more extreme in their ‘attacks’ then people that speak and post of their admiration of Sarah

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    where the subject of “where does the Tea Party movement now go” was being discussed that the obvious focus has to be WINNING ELECTIONS. A lady in the audience, on the subject of divisions within the movement, made the same point: the people in the Tea Party movement have to focus on their common goal: ELECTING people who will follow the Constitution and cut spending, cut regulation, keep our military strong, etc.

    Indeed, Mark Skoda made the point that some in the Tea Party movement are not even regular voters. When he asked for a show of hands of folks who either are current officeholders or were planning to run for office, few hands went up. He gave examples of how in his home county there are some elective offices that have no one in them. He used the words “civic duty.” It was refreshing to hear that.

    Another guy on the panel gave the example of how school boards can be easily changed if conservatives would just run for them.

    I was happy to see that panel followed by two speakers from the organization Voices of America ( www.thevoicesofamerica.org ) who talked about the nuts and bolts of what precincts are, how to canvass them, etc. But it was a non-partisan talk. I didn’t watch the whole thing, so I’m not sure if either of the speakers made the point that on Election Day, 2008, about HALF of the precinct committeeman slots in the Republican Party were unfilled. Or that precinct committeemen basically ARE the Party, as they, and only they, are eligible to vote in the internal Party leadership elections.

    I hope the conservatives in the Tea Party movement will get the word that they can become politically relevant by invading the Republican Party to become precinct committeemen, joining the other conservatives already in it. In so doing, the Party could be changed from being half-strength, and split about 50-50 nationally between conservatives and moderates (and, therefore, not united), to a FULL-strength party with a solid, 75 per cent majority of conservatives. The Tea Partiers would be able to achieve their goals, as they’d be able to help elect fiscal conservatives in the primary elections to go on to beat the Debtocrats in the general elections. It’s a simple strategy. Will they discover it in time?

    I hope so.

    Thank you.
    ColdWarrior
    No more Scozzafavas!
    Become a Republican precinct committeeman. NOW!

  • penguin2

    I did not personally attack you except I wanted to say again publicly for the site, that I think you do this deliberately, trolling Sarah diaries. The guy is gone, he cannot see your little red jug, you did it to get at RS members. You have no idea how I feel about Sarah as a candidate; in fact, I hope she never runs for office because of the hatred directed towards her. Huge difference between spewing nastiness and reasoned, civil discourse. And when you belittle other members of RS, I guess I see I am included now, I will speak up.

    And what facts did your jug represent Third Street?

  • mbecker908

    Heh.

    That’s not the issue Beasley.

    The problem is not about “liking” or “not liking”. The problem is that some folks see Sarah Palin as the second coming of Barack Obama, or even worse, the second coming of Ronald Reagan.

    Others among us see Palin as an exciting speaker, a good fund raiser and as someone who seems to have the ability to stick a spear into the opposition as she did on “death panels”. Those are all very valuable tools in the box. What she is not is a policy visionary, a leader with much in the way of real experience and, based on her governing for the short time she was Governor of Alaska, she’s not very conservative where the rubber meets the road. She does talk a pretty good game though.

    I think she’s doing a good job right now. She’s also very focused on 2010 and for the most part is ignoring 2012. When primary time rolls around we can discuss whether she’s going to be our candidate, and with respect to that, I think you’ll find all of the “Palin haters” will vote for her, hell we voted for McCain.

  • Achance

    I’m an experienced advocate and public speaker and almost never use real notes, but I ALWAYS have a list of all the points I want to cover written down somewhere. Never on my hand but on all sorts of other things from cocktail napkins to legal pads. Just looked to me like she wanted a list of the points she wanted to be sure to cover written on her hand. I’m willing to bet both quarterbacks in the Super Bowl today have a playlist on their wrist; guess there’s something wrong with that too.

  • JadedByPolitics

    ……….

  • JadedByPolitics

    I am pretty disturbed with the sickness that is Palin hatred. This woman has been nothing but a wonderful speaker for Conservatism. She has voiced most if not everything I have voiced except she has MILLIONS hearing her. She had the media in her hand last night to get OUR message out and for that I am eternally grateful. If you do not think for one moment that she did not advance the cause of Conservatism in the last 24 hours then you are just BLIND and STUPID!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/MarkTapscott/Saran-Palin-is-miles-ahead-of-every-other-polician-in-America-83751452.html

  • Third Street

    you’re not the arbiter of who is and who isn’t allowed to form an honest opinion on Sarah Palin. :)

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    Who?

    Who? ….I don’t know anyone like that….seriously

  • Scope

    You know darn well that I said that I was sad to see you accept an “emotional rant” from a 10 day member. You cannot possibly deny that you have been a big proponent of not forming opinions and ideas for “emotional” reasons. Because this guy happened to back your opinions of Palin, it was no reason to give him a pass, because he said the right things about Palin in your opinion. You choose to correct me, and after Neil banned him, as a TalkingPoint-o-matic, even though you and some others commenting here refused to see that his original Palin post fit very nicely into the TalkingPoint-o-matic ideas about Palin.

  • Third Street

    It was a slam at people who treat her with the same unthinking hero worship for which we’ve been mocking the Left for over two years.

    Nice try, though. (“Oh yeaaaah!”)

  • janis
  • SteveLA

    It’s Chauncey Gardiner.

  • Third Street
  • Achance

    others brought me into it. I try not to think or talk about SWWOG. Now she belongs to the Nation.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Save that for the left.

    Mgmt.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Yes, in the real world, your reputation matters.

    You have little, except for your anti-Palin screed.

    How about attacking Republicans less and Democrats more?

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    She said some things during her speech at the convention that I hope a lot of people take to heart. One was: there is no perfect conservative/candidate and that we should look at whether they leave a place better or worse than when they were in charge… Which make me thankful for your expertise on Alaskan politics. However, unlike Obama, she doesn’t claim some kind of Godhood.

    She also said something about the tea party conventions to remain leaderless because the power is from the ground up rather than the top down.

    She also said she would work hard, and die, for the American people. It’s not that she would, but we all should, that should be taken to heart.

    It was a pretty long speech as speeches go but if no one gets anything else out of it, I hope they got that much.

  • nessa
  • Scope

    and the rallying cry for not only the left, but, by those that fear her strength on the right. Obviously, the more popular she becomes, the more deranged the attacks must become. Because of the fact that she in fact does connect with the little people, she will be accused of being the next Obama. The problem with that association is the fact that she is talking about more than hope and change, and, she has been vetted more than anyone else, including the completely unvetted Obama.

    I am not in the Palin for President camp, but, it is foolish for anyone to discount her ability to attract and connect.

  • mbecker908

    The SwiftVets had authority to say what they said about Kerry.

    Palin was/is absolutely right about “death panels”.

    There is no legal foundation for the birther crap. It’s been to court. Got tossed. The Chief Justice of the US settled the issue when he swore President Obama into office.

    Get the f*** over it.

    Concentrate on the real issues that will destroy the nation if we don’t win. Obama’s birth certificate isn’t one of them.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    In memory, the missteps that Reagan made aren’t recalled. Only the results of his leadership. But you know, the strongest point Reagan had was knowing when not to lead and let people lead themselves where they decided they needed to go. He empowered us to be the best we can be without having to resort to the kind of control the leftists would impose. That often gets overlooked in the facts and figures of how he freed the economy, won the Cold War, etc. etc.

    And he brought joy, just as janis said about Palin. Because of this, his missteps have all but been forgotten except by those who hate him for promoting freedom. It’s alright because we do the same with a beloved family member who has gone on and we dearly loved Reagan, faults and all.

    Reagan loved this country and its people with every fiber of his being. But he knew he didn’t have all the answers and didn’t pretend to have them. He freed us up to find our own answers.

    Palin may express it differently and have her own faults(and, yes, she has plenty of them) but that same kind of love is what she exudes and what has people ready to support her no matter what; not her perfection but her belief in them as the driving force of this nation.

    You really can’t ask for better than that of anybody. Besides, nobody is saying she is running for any kind of elected office so until she announces her candidacy or something, a campaign ad of any kind would be moot.

  • Scope

    To my knowledge, not the first person here has equated her as the “greater god” except you. That should shake every person here as a religious slur.

  • mbecker908

    you’re still an idiot.

    Nobody here is “discount[ing] her ability to attract and connect.” It’s her ability to actually govern that is the problem. And that one is every bit as unknown as was Obama’s when he ran. Well, maybe not so much since she cut and ran from the one real elective office that she’s got on her resume.

    Nobody is accusing her of “being the next Obama” either. The point is, she is a fairly empty slate. Good talking points but her talking points don’t at all line up with her actual record as an elected/appointed official. Obama got elected by being all things to those who liked his “style”. Palin is doing the same thing.

    And, she hasn’t really been vetted, certainly not for the office of President of the US. You say that with absolutely no clue about what her positions vis-a-vis foreign policy specifics would be (fair assumption they’re better than O’s), what her position on the size and scope of government should be, and I could go on but I doubt you’d understand.

    The point of her being “the second coming of Barrack Obama” is that her acolytes are easily able to write their own agendas on her slate just exactly like Obama’s did.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    ;-)

    Actually, she has some Reagan qualities, but like in the Tapscott link, whether that translate into presidential material is another matter entirely.

  • janis

    You said exactly the right thing exactly the right way. Joy is a much underrated commodity in this beat up old world. And perhaps that is one of the reasons that she is dismissed so snootily by so many of those who think they are “The Deciders.”

    Because none of those currently on the national scene would recognize joy if they fell over it. Tyranny is serious business and requires absolute vigilance lest some stray tendency toward freedom take root. Freedom, though, that is another story. All it requires is the imagination of an individual to focus on it and then no force can stop it.

    You’re so right, Steph, about Ronald Reagan. No matter his mistakes or faults, it is his absolute love of this country and his belief in us who love her, too, that is remembered most strongly.

  • Scope

    irrational, emotional, hatred. And someone who has that lack of control on their feelings, will deflect and project all that is wrong back on you. He is a hopeless cause. But, thank you for calling him out.

  • SteveLA

    Reagan did all the following:

    Was governor of California for 8 full years, no cutting and running from his responsibilities

    Wrote and spoke extensively on conservative issues for years before becoming Governor and in the years between that and taking the White house.

    Had his own daily radio show where he spoke on conservative issues, a show where Reagan wrote the material he was using.

    Had and expressed a clear view of the place of this country in the world in a very trying time.

    Debated William F. Buckley on the topic of the Panama Canal.

    Debated many others both from the Right and Left on topics of the day and kicked their tails.

    When Governor Palin has done 1/1000th as much as Regan did for real conservative principles, maybe you can make allusions as to her being the second coming of Dutch. Right now…not so much.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    but that is only the gloss over the essence of the man.

    As I recall he didn’t have it so easy when he first ran for national office. He was passed over the first time out, and a lot of the criticism he got was very similar to what is being directed at Palin now, and in spite of all those things you listed. His second try was a win but not by a wide margin. Only on his reelection was there a landslide.

    Look I’m not saying she is the second coming of Reagan, but I would hope that someone who professes that kind of faith in the American people would be someone you’d want to one day support for whatever she endeavors. We need more like her.

  • Scope

    and I will go back to janis and Steph C in their comments above. Palin is inspirational and uplifting. How many of us are living in doom and gloom because of the daily assault on the American people by the Obama administration, the Progressives, and the complicit media, who want to remind us daily of what is best for us if you like it or not. If no one agrees with Reagan on anything else, not the first person could claim he didn’t love this country, and, believe that the American citizens could accomplish anything they set their mind to. Do you know anyone else promoting the message of America’s greatness?

  • Scope

    of posting anything that relies on emotions. Joy and Hope are emotions, which we have all been warned against.

  • mbecker908

    Just like there won’t be a “second coming of Roosevelt” or any other historical figure.

    Ronald Reagan was a unique man raised up for a specific purpose at a specific time. He will not be coming around again.

    And, I don’t think we need another Reagan. He saw the destruction of the Soviet empire and realistically was one of only two people on earth who did. The other being Margaret Thatcher. The two of them so over matched the amassed power of the Soviets it wasn’t even close.

    What we need is a visionary who can see the defeat of the US government and the return of liberty and personal responsibility to the individual that made this country the greatest place on earth. That’s not the Sarah Palin we see today. She’s a good speaker and a good fund raiser. Visionary she’s not. There’s a reasonable question if she’s even all that conservative in practice as opposed to in discussion. And then there’s Steve’s list.

    Sarah Palin may, in the future, become a credible national leader but she’s got a long way to go as of right now.

  • Scope

    than to ever claim the argument that you were brought into it by others. I’ll let it go there.

  • Finrod

    .

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    “Now he belongs to the ages”. And I don’t think it’s just coincidence.

  • JadedByPolitics

    accomplished yesterday and this morning on FOX Sunday, it is FACTUAL that she moved us further towards the goal line to a win in November by showing all that American values are what this country is about and what will win not the thievery and skulduggery of the Democrats.

  • SteveLA

    In 1968 Reagan lost to Nixon.

    In 1976 Reagan lost to Ford who was the sitting President who had pardoned Nixon.

    Reagan had been a two term Governor of California and a national presence sense his nomination speech for Barry Goldwater in 1964 before he ran in ’68, 76 and eventually securing the nomination in 1979.

    Reagan was subjected to far worse insult and scrutiny before and during his presidency than anything Governor Palin has experienced and the term was coined “The Teflon President” for how little it effected him or his standing with the American people.

    Comparisons of Governor Palin to Reagan aren’t something that makes those of us who were voting for and being effected in a positive way by Reagan think very much of or for that matter those making those comparisons, for a lot of reasons.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    It’s just that emotional woman thing I guess that men don’t seem well equipped to deal with. Your take seems just too pessimistic for this sometimes emotional woman.

    I don’t think we need a second Reagan, at least not in the way you would cite. We need someone who loves this country the way he did. There aren’t many who do. Those in Washington are always looking for what’s in it for them.

    There is no perfect candidate.

  • Finrod

    While we don’t want to obsess on what the Other Side is up to, we should always try to stay informed as to their tactics so they don’t take us by surprise.

  • Scope

    I have stayed out of most diaries where you bash and trash anyone you disagree with. You are, without question, the most offensive name calling poster on Redstate. You immediately resort to derogatory name calling with anyone you disagree with. You are protected because you are an “old timer” but, there has been more than once that your vitriolic venemous comments have been not warranted at all. You have posted over and over that you would take the Maine Twins over the devil McCain. Now that he has a challenger, the unarguably conservative challenger, for you doesn’t meet your expectations, so let’s get the RINO of all time back in there because “he can’t be beat.” You would like to think you are the “king maker” but, you go against other very valid posters here that have posted otherwise.

  • Scope

    you are an idiot. No need to read beyond an insult.

  • Achance
  • Achance

    whadd’ya expect? When did I ever back away from one of these things?

  • mbecker908

    Actually, it’s not the “women” who have pushed this meme, it’s the Palinbot men.

    And the only quibble I’ve really got here is that “someone who loves this country” just isn’t enough. There are lots of those folks around, including Palin and would include Romney, Rudy, Fred, Huckabee and even John McCain in that crowd. We need a visionary who is willing to, and not afraid to, go to war with the Democrats.

    I’m totally unconcerned about the “foreign threat”. It’s the “domestic threat” that will destroy us.

  • mbecker908

    you never got beyond second grade.

    I don’t write to you, it would be a worthless waste of time.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    He’s brash, not politically correct, and has opinions that are practically immovable but he’s not an idiot. Just “set in his ways.” You can deal with him as is or you can ignore him.

    Arguing with him isn’t going to change him. Besides, he has a lot of good points that you don’t seem to notice because of the offending ones.

    I don’t know how you’d take some of the names I’ve been called by lib trolls.

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    <a href=”http://www.redstate.com/civil_truth/2008/09/27/with-sarah-palin-its-all-about-joy-messag/”With Sarah Palin, It?s all about JOY

    Subsequent events and learning more about her record in office have made me less enamoured of her suitability for elected office, but she’s still the greatest asset that Republicans have in terms of speech-making and ability to get the public to tune in to the destructiveness of the Democratic agenda – not to mention driving PDS-afflicted Democrats into self-destructive actions.

    But thanks for reminding me that what gains her an audience is her infectious joy that distiguishes her from the dreariness of left and their socialist realism.

    And so long as Sarah doesn’t throw that away, we can’t spare this woman – she fights.

    The greatest threat to her future is choosing and listening to the wrong advisors.

  • mbecker908

    It’s just that Scope has yet to come up with one.

    I’ve had any number of opinions modified by good rational, well constructed arguments. For instance, at the start of the primary season in ’08 I repeatedly insisted that I would never vote for John McCain. It was guys like Art Chance and Moe who really made me take a hard look at my position and when it came down to it, I ate crow and wrote a diary about why I would support McCain and then I held my nose and voted for him.

    And, Scope wouldn’t recognize a “good point” if hit her on the head.

  • aesthete

    but I think that the importance of experience for voters is to indicate where a politician truly stands, and what he will do in office. I don’t consider 2 years of governorship an adequate amount of time for which to judge a potential POTUS candidate, especially when an examination of her record reveals a moderate administration, not a conservative one. One could say that her current status as diva of the conservative movement absolves her of her record, but as someone who is out of office and whose base trends very conservative, it’s in Palin’s best interests to tack rightward. I suppose that it’s unfortunate that Palin quit the governorship; we could have found out whether or not her rhetorical convictions transferred over to the creation of policy. As it stands, we’re left with a thin resume on which to evaluate her, and words — words are great, but actions are what tell me how a person will govern.

    “I want a President with poor character that will defend us over a good man with great character that is a weak?

    liberal.”

    True.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    but not Romney, McCain, or Huckabee. It was self love that drove them more than any other consideration. While there has to be some ego, there still needs to be a balance. Well, maybe Romney a little bit. I’m still not sure about him.

    I’ve expressed my own misgivings about a Palin presidency in the past. Nothing has changed those misgivings but she has something this country needs right now and that something may open the door to the right candidate where, right now, it’s closed and we can’t see who that person would be.

    It can’t hurt to give her room to do whatever it is she’s doing because it sure has got the country energized and that’s worth something in this political climate that has us locked into a nightmare future.

  • ocleverone

    Our compassion for the less fortunate. Our courage to stand up to evil. Our inner strength that keeps us going when everyone tells us to quit. Our determination to take the high road when the low road looks comfy.

    Some of the greatest speeches ever given relied on emotion to motivate. Without that, we all might as well sign up for the Borg now.

    ;)

  • Scope

    Reagan and Thatcher are now your latest “nincompoops.” I’m beginning to wonder if you even have the Republicans, and, the Americans in mind when you say what you do about this country. Who’s side are you really on?

  • mbecker908

    New Year’s Resolution I’m trying not to write books passing as comments. :-)

    I did not mean to imply with my list that any of those guys should actually be President (other than maybe Rudy or Fred). I would not question their “love of country”. Are they qualified for high office? No. Well, hell no. I have no use for McCain or Huckabee in particular and I have huge problems with Romney. But I think they love their country.

    I’m also not saying that Palin should “never” be President. I don’t happen to think she’s a particularly credible candidate right now. She could be in the future.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    I don’t believe I’ve ever claimed to be a political expert. In 1968, I was ten years old.

    Nor do I particularly care whether you think much of me or not if your regard is conditional on whether I agree with you 100% without question. That would make you infallible, which you are not. And of me, a sheep, and a sheep I am not.

  • Scope

    every one he calls one is? Can you explain that?

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    Maybe, another election, but not 2012. However, if she’s what we get it’s better than TheOne. We don’t always get our druthers. McCain taught us that, if nothing else.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    I said he’s set in his ways. This attributing words I didn’t say doesn’t help you.

    Just because he called you an idiot doesn’t make him the owner of your offense to being called so. You can either stay offended or ignore it and debate the real issues. That is entirely up to you.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    :-)

  • penguin2

    Neil recently wrote a post that focused on the wisdom of Gandalf from LOTR. Neil wrote this:

    “But as Gandalf warns, you never know what role somebody may end up playing in our community”

    Most of the posters in this thread are saying exactly that. We recognize the good that Sarah Palin can do and is doing for the conservative movement and the Republican party. At this point, candidate stuff should just be set aside. But who on our side would not want someone who can help in our fight against the Left?

    I think you have just said that and Art did as well, somewhere in this thread. To steal the intent of Neil’s words; the larger context for Sarah is the much bigger community of our party.

  • Scope

    I really would be hit over the head, and, so far that hasn’t happened. Steph C can give you all the passes she chooses to, it doesn’t remove the fact that you are one nasty, denigrating, disparaging, hateful poster. Have a good night!

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    you need to develop a thicker skin. Being perpetually offended at insults makes one miserable person.

    And you keep attributing to me words I didn’t say. You’re starting to sound like my grandson who is all of 7 years old and in stage of “Nobody loves me” when he doesn’t get everything his own way.

  • jsmiddleton4

    What more does one need than this thread to “prove” the birther movement is harming the conservative movement?

  • AceInTX

    It’s true Obama could put this to bed once and for all by just producing the original birth certificate that proves the copy on record in HI as factual…but you guys would declare it a fake…and you’re just NOT going to give it up no matter what!

    Have you stopped to consider the possibility that he’s withheld the original to draw you all out so you can be-clown yourself and give the Dims the ability to discredit the rest of us?

  • Scope

    offended at insults? You have no basis for that accusation, and, you know it. You argue your ideas and opinions the way you do for your own reasons, just as I do. Because I believe that beckers posts are nasty doesn’t make me a “miserable” person, and, if I am seen as being a 7 year old because I call it that way, then, 7 year olds have it all over you. You need to realize that because you argue, debate what you do, the way you do it, doesn’t make you the authority on everyone’s opinions and ideas. You really need to stay with your own ideas, and, recognize that others have the freedom to do the same, and, in their own way.

  • mbecker908

    Not only are you incapable of rational thought, you can’t read either.

  • mriggio

    Saying that a certain speaker evokes feelings of joy is quite different than saying I have a tingle in my leg and therefore will blindly follow you anywhere. Although the ability to cause listeners to feel joy is a nice attribute of a leader, it isn’t a requirement, just frosting on the cake. For a leader, it sure helps when the followers like the cake itself as well as the frosting. Our side tends to be more greatly swayed by logic and common sense than the opposition; if common sense makes you joyous, what’s not to like?

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    And the only thing I’ve really seen you have a real opinion about is whether somebody has offended you for not agreeing with you.

    I never said you didn’t have the freedom to say whatever you want but your freedom to do so doesn’t infringe on someone else saying something to you that is going to or might offend you. The world does not revolve around whether Scope is offended or not.

  • http://www.clinefamily.us pcnnc

    Sorry Erick, but from my position I do not think the Republicans have any real leadership either. Steele has been as flaccid as a banana peel when it comes to attacking the issues and bringing forth a coherent plan for health care and immigration. While I do think a third party is a big mistake the alternative is nothing more than more of the same old Republican blue-blood rhetoric. I hope that the TEA Party movement can at least influence enough seats to voice the will of most in this country and bring some sanity back to government.

  • Scope

    and, I don’t put you on that scale.

  • Aaron Gardner

    BTW, technically, you just used His name in vain. Hope it was worth it.

  • avgamerican

    I’m Republican and always have been. But I have enough sense to know that real conservatism is shrinking. I predict that just as the dems have sabotaged themselves so will the GOP as they have before. You people need to think on a higher level and understand that both parties have been bought and are relenting to globalism. I ll say the dems have more than the GOP, but both have. I believe the Tea Party movement is a good thing to bring Americans to their senses. As far as the birther thing, yeah mom is from Kansas and that makes Obama an American citizen. The birthers should leave it at that.

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    I do not want Sarah to Fail….she needs work, but she needs us to support her….

    We’ll keep our eyes on her…heh….but let’s stay positive…

    I realize that when we need that vote for Sarah, mbecker will be there…he’s cool that way

  • gekster

    What is the “I” as in “I am” to “YOU” as in “You are” ratio in speaches by Obama and Palin comparatively..
    A word count ratio would have to be factored in,
    but I’m just ciurious about that.

  • http://jeffersonrebels.blogspot.com ericathunderpaws

    I have strong reason to believe that there are liberals on RedState masquerading as conservatives. This is a repeat of what I said earlier today.

    FYI. It?s always interesting to drop into the enemy?s camp. The jabbers at Politijab (http://politijab.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=34d667f4bdc552fabc5378696c237ba3) are dropping in to RedState and then commenting on their blog. They really hate Palin and the whole tea party movement.

    If you want to feel the hate for ALL things conservative, you can read a lot of their threads without registering, but if you really want to see where they throw knives, register and new threads open up. To use the search box, you must register. Don?t forget to search for redstate.

    Arrogance is a virtue on Politijab. They epitomize the term ?Alinskyites?. I can?t help but wonder if a one or two has managed to register on RedState. If they comment, do they truthfully reveal themselves as liberals, or do they pretend to be conservatives? Do you all remember that Cass Sunstein proposed ?cognitive infiltration? of blogs in his abstract titled ?Conspiracy Theories?? Regardless of the thread you?re participating on at RedState, it?s something to remember. The Salon article is scathing in its analysis, and it links directly to the abstract. Be sure to read page 15, ?Governmental Responses?.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/15/sunstein/index.html

  • Third Street

    (and WHO DAT?)

  • Beasley Beesmeal

  • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

    Where in the heck did you get that from?
    Reagan was Reagan and we can’t sit around hoping another clone will come and save us.
    We are Ronald Reagan now.

  • Achance
  • Achance

    That’s all it will ever be about. Her career is built on the dead bodies of people who believed in her. Hey, but she’s making some pretty fancy money these days, isn’t she?

  • AStoner

    I look at all the evidence available to me and I find what fits reality best. For the birtherism issue, I think Erick Erickson is pretty much correct, except on the fact that we can just throw people out of the movement just because they are willing to bring it up. It is not going to win an election, but allowing our government to function on a purely trust me basis is not the Reagan way. Trust, but verify.

    As for encyclopedias go, I have been buying the oldest encyclopedias and history books I can find. You would be amazed how hard facts of an unchanging variety seem to either no longer exist or have been completely changed over the last 150 years.

    As an example, we all blame the southern states for the large influx of slaves, but a surprising fact is that almost all slaves in fact were originally purchased in the northern states by northern interests and then moved to the south to keep the northern state’s interests in the southern states producing the products for the northern state’s needs. Go find that in a 1960 or newer book on history. Slavery was actually pushed onto the southern states by the industrial states. I do not condone the southern states continued use of slaves, but the north’s action is what made the economy of the southern states dependent on the situation.

  • AStoner

    simple. It gets rid of anything to do with Obama, but engenders all things constitutional and morally correct.

  • AStoner

    That is certainly how our country will survive.

  • AStoner

    The question is one of transparency. It is not our ignorance of how it works, it is request to see the evidence that they used to make the determination.

  • AStoner

    It is not about Obama, it is about transparency and constitutional protection. Obama just happens to be the person who showed us the leak in the dam. We just want the leak filled, not the water that is already under the bridge.

  • AStoner

    He has already proven himself incapable of accomplishment. He can be president for this term and the next if he gets re-elected for all I care. But any new people placed on the ballot in the future should be required to present evidence of eligibility in a transparent verifiable manner that allows the citizens their rights under the constitution to have a president that fits the eligibility requirements.

    Our government has proven that it is not longer capable of being simply trusted, it must from now on be verified, per Reagan’s instructions. Trust, but verify.

  • AStoner

    The unconstitutional direction of our government?

  • AStoner

    It is very much how the progressives work. The call you names, ask you to prove negatives and want people to side with them because they have made the other person something to be detested. I am certain that these people on this site find that you are a great benifit to them. Your arguments hold no truths to them, but have nothing that can be attacked with evidence.

    Then you have the nerv to call me a troll.

  • AStoner

    You can think the poor communications skill of people like Red State, and Reihl world and Clouthier (spelling?) for the bad publicity of what its intended purpose was. The actual Tea Party Nation has never said that it was intended for tea party protesters, but always intended for Teap Party Planners and Organizers in order to educate them with skills to make the events work as the organizers and planner intend.

    These blogs have fed into the main stream media their bad feelings towards the organizer for some reason the propaganda that the main stream media wanted.

  • joebgardener

    That’s just embarrassing.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Then you’re awfully thick headed.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • Chief1942

    … like those on the other side, when you can’t make a legitimate argument, you simply fall back on name calling. And these guys think that approach is going to regain those that fled the GOP in the millions. Good luck with that approach.

  • Achance

    have noticed. She’s very obviously getting some coaching in public speaking, particularly in extemporaneous and less structured-sounding speaking, so maybe that’s where the notes on the hand comes from. She’s always been able to read a speech pretty well and to memorize one pretty well. I always thought she was awful with any kind of extemporaneous speech; constitutionally unable to use complete sentences and with that sing-song speaking style that so many West Coast women have, the one where the notes go up at the end of the sentence so it always sounds like they’re asking a question.

    I didn’t think it was any big deal, though I don’t know why a note card wouldn’t have done.

  • aesthete

    your words will be interpreted as being about Obama, as will any actions taken by a Republican Congress in the short-term (present-2012, at least). It’s a waste of our time, political capital, and media exposure, relative to other issues that Republicans can push, and we would lose independents who don’t know (and don’t care) about “natural born citizenship”. Remember how unpopular the attempted impeachment of Clinton was? That is the level of support that you can expect from pushing this short term.

    If you want to pass a bill that covers the verification of “natural born” citizenship, fine. But don’t pretend that it’s not a damaging and unimportant issue short-term, and that the term “natural born” is far from unambiguous.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • WVPatriot

    I will just forgive you for that remark…

    Because you had no idea that the person, you made that remark to had just recently lost his mother after an almost four year long battle with a very aggressive brain tumor in 2009.