« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Why It Must Be “Repeal And Start Over”

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  March 24th, 2010 at 05:00 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Last night Mitch McConnell said the mantra for the GOP in 2010 would be “repeal and replace.” There is a problem with this mantra — some in the Republican caucus actually mean they just want to redo what has been done and substitute some portions. Others want to repeal the whole thing and substitute something entirely different. See, for example, John Cornyn yesterday saying he just wanted to nibble at the edges, only to be forced into renouncing his own words in favor of some mendacious messaging about bipartisan cooperation.

The mixed up musings of the Republican caucus will do in the message.

On the other hand “repeal and start over” makes clear exactly what will happen and is in accord with the variety of polls out there showing the American people wanted Congress to start over before the vote this past Sunday.

But there is something else too. Ignore, if you will, that the way Obamacare works means that should one provision be replaced, all the other provisions would have to be tinkered with. For a Republican caucus that ridiculed the Democrats passing a 2,700 page bill without reading all the details, it is clear the GOP would have to do the same.

But again, let’s ignore that point. Consider this point instead. We know that Obamacare will not work. It will not increase the lifespan of Americans. It will not decrease health care costs. It will not work. However, should the GOP change any part of Obamacare instead of repealing and starting over, the Democrats and media will make the GOP own it. When it does not work, the GOP will get the blame, not the Democrats.

With that being the case, the GOP should repeal and start over.

Tags:

COMMENTS

POSTING RULES  |  LOGIN TO COMMENT  |  REGISTER TODAY
  • JadedByPolitics

    WE the Republican Party will get the GOVERNMENT OUT of your healthcare!

  • http://truthupfront.blogspot.com jsanzone

    In the year of the tea party and auto-didactic republican Constitutionalism, active citizens realize the difference between “repeal and replace” “repeal and start over” and will know nibbling when they see it.

    By forcing politicians to adhere to specific provisions and a commitment to truly repeal and start over, the nonsense rhetoric will hopefully be disposed of.

    Not only will the GOP come to own the bill if they adjust it (just like they took ownership of Medicare over the last year or two), but the Republicans will look like cheap politicians (many of them are anyway) for standing so feverishly strong against the bill before it passed, and so “compromising” after the fact.

  • partyof1

    to oppose Obamacare, here is an enlightening debate over the constitutionality of forcing people to buy health insurance featuring David Rivkin.

    His (and my) bottom line is that if the commerce clause is allowed to be interpreted so broadly, then there is no limit to its authority.

    http://fora.tv/2009/10/26/Are_Healthcare_Purchase_Mandates_Constitutional#fullprogram

  • ciscoguy

    I think the leftist media will play up the “start over” part to advance the idea we don’t have any solutions, which, if we don’t follow through after we “start over” is going to resonate with voters. If the “replace” includes legislation that removes the old bill in its entirety and gives them what they want (more choice through interstate competition, real tort reform, individual tax credits, flexible spending accounts and so on), we’ll be seen as heroes because we know our solutions will actually work and will cost the taxpayer next to nothing. Actually, we should see some serious savings when you consider all the commitments on this existing bill.

    On the other hand, you may have a point. If they left and their media lapdogs can undermine the “replace” part of the new bill, it will also sabotage the effort to remove the existing one.

    Don’t jump on me for being a pessimist, but I don’t see how we’re going to remove this bill. I think we can get this loser out of the white house and recapture both houses of congress, but can we get a the filibuster-proof majority that will be required? I hope so, but I have my doubts. On the other hand, maybe we can just shove it right up their you-know-what’s with reconciliation. I’d be fine with that.

  • Hugh

    If we repeal the bill I think we wiil need 67 votes in the Senate to override a Presdential veto. Correct me if I am wrong. That means we need to work like we have never worked before, give like we have never given before, and some prayer will help too. I agree that the mantra should be clear. The HCR bill is unacceptable in its entirety. Period. End of sentence. No but’s or maybe’s.

  • BA Cyclone

    I think to them it is mostly semantics, and the GOP fare rolls off the tongue more easily.

    I do fear that the GOP is assuming they have a trust within the public mind that may not fully exist yet. What they do from here forward will determine not just November, but possibly the future of the Party for at least the next several years.

    It would be great if they put some specific alternatives out there, but I understand why they probably will not or politically cannot. However I think it would be more clear, and more powerful for them if they came out and said something to the effect of – we are going to Nuke this bill, and replace it with the reform described in Paul Ryan’s Roadmap. As an example.

    It would prove to some in the middle, I think, (and maybe some really hardcore tea party types) that trading in their congressperson for a GOP brand would not be trading one tyrant for another, slightly less tone deaf tyrant.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    We’ve all known him to think this about conservatives, but to declare us irrelevant publicly is not just a mistake, but a gift to the Democrats. He’ll rue the day. But America may rue the comment.

    Mitch gets an 89 from the ACU, Cornyn is in the 90′s. So how can one who believes 1) legislation that is unconstitutional in every sense that I can imagine, 2) a process that is much, much more than just just hard-ball politics, 3) and a shared belief with socialists in the primacy of Big Government and a professional State Ruling Class get anything above a 49 rating from ACU? I’d say their measuring techniques are flawed. (Yes, i know it’s based on how they vote o legislation, but they may want to revisit the whole notion of criteria of core beliefs. I suggest a two tier measuring system for ACU…measuring their votes against ACU conservative criteria, then also measuring their votes and public positions vis a vis their own statements of “Conservative Faith”.

    If Mitch says he’s a constitutionalist, much less a conservative, he is also a liar and hypocrite.

    This makes the job of conservatives all the more difficult. McConnell in essence said what M’Cain did about conservatives in 2008…you will vote for me, you will have to vote for me, while I still have my boot on your neck, peeing on your shoulders.

    If Bennett loses in Utah we will soon see the true “Team-GOP” attitude, as he will not likely provide more than lukewarm support for the more conservative replacement. Like the Dems, their idea of bi-partisan ship only runs one way. It is our duty to support feckless big-government moderates, while it is their to reject conservatives in common purpose with the Left.

    Conservatives have to try and save a nation from the ravages of tyranny, while do battle within an opposition party, which, at its core, isn’t sure some aspects of tyranny are all that bad.

  • http://thefloridaprecinctproject.wordpress.com/ precinctpatriot

    The GOP has failed to develop a “GOP” supported plan. Paul Ryan’s plan “seems” to be a place to start, but I do not see any GOP led initiative to gain at least a GOP consensus on his or any other plan. Until that occurs, I doubt that the voters will trust them to do so after a “Repeal” of the Dems plan.
    I would think that the first step is to develop a GOP Health Care bill that has the support of a majority of GOP Senate and House members.

  • NeoKong

    It like using an old and moldy wood ladder.
    You rise a few steps but sure enough you will end up on the ground.
    He is one of those politicians who want to curry favor with the media.
    The guy has the steely spine of a jelly fish and the moment he gets badgered by reporters he will retreat. He is best left quietly in the background.
    The Republicans had better get organized on this and present a united front with the the strongest speakers in the lead or this will fall apart.

    The media are like a pack of wolves. When they see weakness in the herd they will cut one out of the bunch and run him down. The GOP had better realize that the media once again are on the same page as the White House and are preparing a spring time media offensive to put a stop to all this repeal talk.

    But Senator….why do you want to take health care away from a poor sick child…?

  • http://www.voteforteri2010.com teridavisnewman

    A Republican controlled House gets rid of Pelosi as Speaker. Cutting all the funding for the bureaucracy that runs this atrocity and all funding to enforce and implement the bill will effectively kill it without having to worry about getting majorities to repeal it right away. The HOUSE controls the money–and I will not rest until all the funding is cut from this horrendous bill and THEN we kill it off with repeal after we’ve gutted it with no funding.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    Purpose? To immediately wipe out all these pockets of potential crisis within the party.

    It is frankly beyond fundamental logical reasoning our party has still not learned how to coordinate the message or strategy. We are always one-step behind, a day late and a dollar short. Where is the strategy? What the hell has been going on during the health care debate- was our party lost in the moment?

    We have the most unpopular bill in modern times, passed against a majority of the electorate’s will, taking over the health care industry, with egregiously destructive economic implications, using anti-democratic procedures, laced with bribes and we still can’t coordinate the message? It makes me believe the unified stand we made against it was a fluke.

    If the party truly believes they can milk the unpopularity until November without;
    - A unified stand on repeal, with an easily articulated alternative
    - A unified message on why this bill is bad, the long term damaging implications (as opposed to the immediate goodies that Democrats deceptively loaded into the bill, to use as November’s campaign fodder)
    - A unified message on other priorities which focuses mainly on jobs and the economy
    - A response to Democrats who are now spinning their health care bill as a positive and beyond that actually using it as a campaign fund-raising accoutrement

    …. then get used to the current oligarchy including the Democrat majority and a two term Obama.

  • vamoose

    Replace squishy Reps and Dems this spring and in November, then repeal HCR. The problem with “repeal and replace” is that there are about 20 different ideas among 41 GOP senators about what “replace” means. To Cornyn it means “nibbling around the edges.” This reminds me of the Steven Wright joke: “Someone broke into my apartment and replaced everything with an exact duplicate.” Boo on that.

    There are certain advantages to being the party of opposition. Being the party of opposition has unified the GOP and their stance with the people of America against HCR has benefited them. Why do McConnell and Cornyn want to give up that advantage by floating replacement ideas? Dem efforts to craft HCR created a deep rift and ugly fight amongst Dems and progressives. Pelosi was twist Dem arms. Bickering and disunity over what constitutes a replacement for HCR would not server the GOP well. In fact, Dems would love to mischaracterize and shoot down such talk in front of CBS, ABC, NBC, WaPo, & NYT.

    The Washington GOP doesn’t want to talk about replace and repeal because they may well be among those replaced–and for good reason!

  • judybelle1

    The president can keep over riding this as many times as it appears on his desk. He is the final word. I think this is what happened with Bill Clinton. He finally let it go.

  • Whitesands

    ?To that I say, ?Bring it on,?? said White House domestic policy chief Melody Barnes, who cited similar suits filed over Social Security and the Voting Rights Act when those were passed. ?If you want to look in the face of a parent whose child now has health care insurance and say we?re repealing that … go right ahead.?

    Who the hell does this little kid think she is.? This seems to be the attitude of the Progressive party. This is a law that was rammed down the American peoples throat. Who do you work for.?

    Here is the way I see it.
    1. You bought votes with bribes and graft.
    2. You use parliamentary tricks to pass this legislation.
    3. Your numbers don’t add up.

    Now the Obama administration response is we won so now try and take it away. No concern for morality or commonsense. This is also how further expense in the form of top down mandates from Washington will be handled. This could have been done piecemeal but this was never about health care. The goal is the expansion of the federal government with more control over the individual.

    The senate is now trying to reconcile the bill. I think the republicans should still show that chart on the new bureaucracies being created and offer commonsense alternatives that show a clear distinction between free market proposals in both costs and implementation. Contrast that with what is in this current bill so the American people see the path these bureaucrats want to take this country down..

  • edintexas

    Rep, Pete Sessions, R-Dallas, advocated “repeal the bad parts” on the Mark Davis radio show on Monday. That is the last thing I want to hear. I agree with Eric, repeal the whole blasted thing. Another of our TX Reps, on Tuesday’s Davis program, advocated repeal what we can until we can repeal the whole thing. I guess I’m OK with that, but Repubs have been known to lose their way.

  • Hugh

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/presveto.htm

    Should have looked this up before post. It was early.

  • RedBeard

    If that offends the status quo GOP faithful, I’m not sorry. It’s true. Yes, it’s true that the party held firm on the vote Sunday night, but then the message immediately got muddied by namby-pamby comments by the “leadership.” Public statements like those coming from McConnell and Cornyn over the last couple of days are a clear sign of the weakness within the party,

    True leadership will not be found in the offices of those official “leaders.” It will be found in people like Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio, people who understand who the enemy is, and who are willing to say so and lead the charge against those enemies.

    I’m an old poop myself, but I have absolutely no trouble telling the tired and rudderless old guard to step aside and let principled and strong people, like the two young men I mentioned, take up the fight.

    We’re stuck, at present, with a gaggle of “leaders” who remind me of Lincoln’s General McClellan, marching back and forth, up and down the peninsula, drilling and planning, but never actually engaging the enemy. Pathetic then, and pathetic now. At least Lincoln eventually got rid of his tepid and useless generals, and found Grant, who actually wanted to win a war.

    In case no one in the “leadership” has noticed, we are in nothing less than a war for the soul of this country. Begging and blabbering about bi-partisanship, proposing half-measures, giving in on basic constitutional principles, acting like the Democrat Lite Party, and trashing the vision of the Founders is NOT the way to win this war. If we don’t fight to win, the creep of socialist incrementalism will continue unabated. And that is, of course, the exact plan the lefties have been following since the Great Depression, aided at every turn by an opposition afraid to fight.

  • mbecker908

    Except for a brief period in 92-95 when Newt actually provided real leadership. Then he started drinking the water in DC.

    You could actually say there’s only been one brief period where there was real Republican leadership in the WH. That would be during Reagan’s terms, and that would pretty much be confined to foreign policy with a brief stopoff to kill off the controllers union. Well maybe two, I almost forgot Cal Coolidge.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    We need to talk.

  • porterjervis

    Repeal is the best approach, but it?s unlikely.
    Even if the House and Senate fall back to the Republicans there is still the Presidential veto unless Republicans manage to get enough votes to over-ride.

    Smother it at birth, no funding at all, no terms, no negotiation, no nothing.

    Republicans seem to believe that if they play along once in a while the Democrats might play nice too. They won’t. They will cut your throat when you blink.

  • conservos
  • TFS

    I don’t think that there has been enough attention paid to the fact that we can de-fund this bill by taking over the House.

    I agree that everything needs to be pursued at this time (court challenges, thwarting the Senate reconciliation of the House bill, etc.), but we must also advocate getting people elected who will also work immediately to stop it by stopping the money.

    One good place to start right now is with the IRS funding. Mark Levin said that they didn’t put funds in the bill to pay for the IRS costs to implement this thing. We should make sure that this is never funded.

  • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

    It was his memo exposed last year that exposed another chump, McConnell, and the GOPs strategy to ACT like they were fighting the good fight and use OCare’s passage as a way to increase gains in 2010. It’s all about power with these guys. Now they’re all pissed at DeMint for being the catalyst for the whole exposure when it was their turncoat idea to begin with.

    Nibble at the edges and you will lose your next primary. I live here in Texas and I can guarantee it. I’ll work tirelessly to ensure any Texas Senators who wants to act like little puppy dogs and “nibble” at the edges of this disaster of a bill will face the streets. I’ll release the entire narrative of the turncoats.

    I also work to ensure we Coburn their cowardly butts while we are at it. No appointments, and any Republican Senator who deals with a lobby firm that hires a Cornyn nibbler will be added to the list as well. Go ahead and piss us off more – now that’s a strategy you can believe in. Bozos.

    Guys like Cornyn and McConnell don’t belong in the Senate. Go home puppy dogs. We want leaders, not nibblers. Corn on the cob – that’s something you nibble on. ObamaCare – that’s something you destroy. Get it. Got it. Good.

  • Common_Cents

    The left is much more coordinated in their lies, the right was not coordinated enough in our message. The concerned and educated here at RS got it but the rest of America makes decisions based on sou d bytes and headline brainwashing.

    With a repealing campaign we better be tying a solution to it with every mention.

    Why won’t a repeal it only campaign won’t work? People won’t feel the pain for a few years when the stuff really hits the fan.

  • erod

    Yes I totally agree that repeal must be the solution, but over the past year and couple of days I like a lot of you have had great concern for our country. I just feel that it’s all over, Obama will legalize the illegals, he has his government control over 51% of the economy now (I heard this stat from Michelle Bachman on the radio today), and he’ll get cap and tax because he has a rogue Congress who just doesn’t give a crap anymore about their constituents.

    I just don’t know how we go back to what we used to be he’s destroying this country on purpose and that angers me! Even great men and news sources such as Rush Limbaugh have gone negative and it’s hard to believe Rush going negative because up until this point he’s been the most positive news source I have ever known.

    I want to make a living in this country with democracy, free market principles and have my children live in the U.S.A. not the U.S.S.A. I just feel that he’s screwed us up way beyond repair we can’t fix this, especially after immigration passes and we will hardly be able to elect conservatives anymore. This is tyranny and I will do everything in my power to stop it! But, I feel very helpless right now, this commie has 8 months left to put the final nails in our coffin, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he’ll accomplish it, what’s stopping him?

  • texasgalt

    and reeled in by the Dems. McConnell, Cornyn, Alexander and Pete Sessions: REPEAL!

  • weatherford

    Thank you and Erick for an early morning dose of clarity. It goes well with the second cup of coffee.

    The message needs to be simple, and kept simple. The People have it figured out. Yet a very serious danger remains that the Senate GOP will complicate the winning position that they did not create — but had handed to them. Worse still, if they are allowed to do so, complicate they will.

    Why? For several decades, Senate Republican, taken as a group, have had a fatal wish to be acceptable to, and embraced by, the liberal elitist establishment.

    The country, therefore, has a hard-wired problem. It is not just the Democrats who refuse to listen to the voters.

  • Martin Knight

    There should therefore be no “need” for Bipartisanship in its repeal. Republicans should be ready to vote to repeal it even if not one single Democrats votes along with them.

    Simple and short; any Republican who starts mouthing Bipartisan twaddle before the battle is even joined is not to be trusted. It’s a clear sign of cowardice and by rights on a battlefield he should be shot.

    This should be the question every Republican should have to answer at every Town Hall from now until Election Day 2012; are you going to vote for repeal? Even if along strict partisan lines?

  • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

    I can see now that very few have the spirit of our founders in them anymore – at least not enough of us. If millions just said ENOUGH! and did something like hold back taxes, or get together and coordinate a nullification movement, then we would have a chance. Lawsuits are going to take years and probably won’t work, and as anyone can see from Cornyn and McConnell’s statements, politicians are not going to fix this for you. They’ll tell you they will if you push them into believing you are actually going to vote them out – but int he end they won’t. Get a new guy in and there’s no guarantee he was not using you as a chump to get into office. The reality is that the scaffolding is already starting to be built and deconstructing it could do a great deal of damage, so any solution that does not repeal of end ObamaCare very quickly is doomed before it even gets out of the gate.

    This is going to take a solution by the people. The fact we are not even pursuing an alternative course says a lot to me. I am from Canada, now a US Citizen. Apathy and the lack of fight in the dog is exactly what liberals want and exactly what I see in my relative to the North. A sort of “Oh well” resignation to life. Britain, where my wife hails from, is even worse. No wonder their favorite past time is to drink themselves into oblivion in the pubs. It dulls the pain.

    If the lawsuits don’t work and repeal does not work, we have only ourselves to blame for not thinking of another alternative. You get the government you deserve. I don’t know, it seems like these solutions are a little mousy to me and rely on unreliable people and systems – politicians and federal judges.

    If we want to win – we need to take the action. If we don’t have enough of us willing to do so, then its over. If more people were like you who would do “anything to stop it” (in a non-violent way – just simple civil disobedience would work) we would have this solved in a couple of months if we could coordinate.

    That being said, only when he pain is great enough will a precipitating event occur that will cause a major shift. Unfortunately, by not following other alternatives now that are passive-aggressive, I fear this future event will leave off the passive part. Live and learn as they say, and history always repeats itself. Right now it is 1776 in 2010 and DC is the British Parliament. Nationalists with strong central power in the federal government. Countless souls being lorded over by a few elitists. No sense of history or the understanding of history. The Stamp Act has yet to occur. It was obviously not ObamaCare, but Cap-and-trade or “immigration” reform (amnesty), along with Card Check. Who knows.

    I am at the part where I can look around me and see the blank faces of apathy, happily being lead to the slaughter. Their last gasp is to push hard for a political or judicial solution from the very group of people that put us here over the decades. That should tell you a great deal.

    I wish I could talk you off the ledge, but I’m right there with you. However, I am not afraid to jump and I will continue to work to motivate others to see the need to pursue other solutions. Right now, it is not looking good. I already know specialists in the healthcare field (I have 25 stents and a lot of specialists) who are going to retire or are looking at other countries (they say our system is going to be worse than the NHS in Britain due to the number of people and an even large bureaucracy). The NHS is known in Britain as the “60 year failure”.

    I now of two small business owners moving to Singapore. Apparently they are very small business friendly. I guess we are gong to see a lot of talented people going Galt. I’ll continue to fight this until it is clear we are going to lose, then I’ll find my escape hatch. If we get to 2013 and most of Obama’s work is not repealed or struck down by the courts (which I don’t think will happen), then I’ll probably head for greener pastures.

    The only pleasure I will gain from doing so will be to watch liberals struggle in the sewers as they realize that making the United States look like California was really not such a good idea after all.

  • weatherford

    I am new to this site, but this is the best post I have yet seen. I have a feeling you know Mitch up close and in action — or inaction.

  • jetman

    on two people running for Congress:
    First, a “John Dennis” purports to be running for Pelosi’s seat and is online asking for money. ANY knowledge about him?

    Second, and closer to home, here in the VA 8th a retired Army officer named Patrick Murray has been mentioned on WMAL this morning as preparing to run against our Rep-for-life James Moran (aka the moron). I don’t know of him at all, but desperately need to hear from RS about him. This site is about the only one I trust for truth.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I suggest you write a diary about the Moran race, give us everything you can find out, and then see where the discussion leads.

    But this post really isn’t about that.

  • earlgrey

    We can’t predict what will happen.

    I maintain that in some sense we had to see unrestrained liberalism. We have been headed down the road for a long time. It is like when you take the wrong turn, and you suddenly find yourself someplace you didnt want to be. Some people realize and react faster than others.

    I know this isn’t what you were looking for, but all around you people are waking.

    On a lighter note. Who’s got the better looking leaders? Really? Paul Ryan vs. John Conyers, Scott Brown vs. Chris Dodd? That has to count for something! I know I am going to get slammed for that comment.

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    Some fine ladies and gentleman down at the think-tank want to help you with your Web presence…

    sorry, but it Sucks…please contact me at special@pacbell.net

    and HURRY!!!

  • weatherford

    There are a lot of tipping points. One is April 15th.

    Fighting Obamacare (tyranny) appears to have diverted a lot of folks from their normal routine. An Accountant friend tells me there are an unusually large number of taxpayers requiring an automatic extension.

    Does anyone know if this trend is true nationally?

  • RedBeard

    John Galt

    Edmond Dantes

    Don Diego de la Vega

    Dr. Peter Blood

    I doubt that obtuse lefties are able to grasp the significance (too busy spending other people’s money), but let’s just say that fiction can be fulfilled in fact from time to time.

  • weatherford

    I have always wondered why in combat pistols were only issued to officers and senior NCOs. Never made any sense to me, but I am beginning to get it.

  • erod

    I’m a 20 something male and there’s no denying that some of the ladies in the GOP look great: Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Michelle Bachman, Katherine Ham, Laura Ingrahm and Sarah Palin all look great. I know it sounds weird comming from a guy who admits that these women got at least 20 years on him, but man I don’t know how the other side functions with tired old rags like Pelousy or Helen Thomas, ugh.

    Thanks for the laugh earlgrey.

  • erod

    I’m a 20 something male and there’s no denying that some of the ladies in the GOP look great: Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Michelle Bachman, Katherine Ham, Laura Ingrahm and Sarah Palin all look great. I know it sounds weird comming from a guy who admits that these women got at least 20 years on him, but man I don’t know how the other side functions with tired old rags like Pelousy or Helen Thomas, ugh.

    Thanks for the laugh earlgrey.

  • earthmover

    It’s mathematically impossible to have a veto-proof majority before 2013, and if Obama is reelected we would need to win 57 of the 67 senate elections in ’10 and ’12 and have a net gain of 115 House seats in ’10 and ’12.

    Repeal is a great rallying cry, and is obviously ideal, but there needs to be a plan to keep everyone’s interest from waning over the next three years (and just saying that interest won’t wane isn’t good enough. There needs to be a strategic plan.) if we are going to convince ourselves that we can’t nibble away at it.

  • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

    Although I hope its something else and something is happening in the country. If there is a concerted effor to cut off the feds supply of cash I would love to hear about it. However, if you are going to get money back, why file an extension? So its folks who owe who are filing and my guess is that many of them could have 401k loans while employed and now need to pay the taxes and 10% penalty because they could not pay them off when they lost their jobs. I know a number of people like this.

  • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

    Although I hope its something else and something is happening in the country. If there is a concerted effor to cut off the feds supply of cash I would love to hear about it. However, if you are going to get money back, why file an extension? So its folks who owe who are filing and my guess is that many of them could have 401k loans while employed and now need to pay the taxes and 10% penalty because they could not pay them off when they lost their jobs. I know a number of people like this.

  • 1stsgt

    I am not formally educated as some folks. I am a graduate of the SHK(School of Hard Knocks). If I can understand that the obamacare is a travesty why can’t the college folks understand it. I’m from Texas and I have been observing my senators for some time. I have come to the conclusion that they need to be replaced. I wrote one about letting Arlen Specter in a leadership position. I got back a mealy-mouthed reply that he was a good senator. He is a good senator alright, he’s now a dem. I believe that our senate should be disbanded as in my opinion, it not worth a tinkers damn at face value. My rant is over and thanks. Last item, Mr Williams is running and I will be voting for him and whoever is running against Mr Coryn.

  • weatherford

    aint him.

    Does anyone know if Senator DeMint has introduced his repeal bill yet? He can put it, or an effectively identical version, direct on the Senate Calendar, and I am confident he knows how.

    It would cleans our stable to see who votes for a motion to table his motion to proceed.

  • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

    And then doing something now are two different things. I would submit we woke up last year had a great showing of 2 million at the mall and then the leveraged pressure stopped. I tried for months to get folks to keep up the pressure on many Tea Party sites. Dr. Larry Hunter wrote a strategy memo that went largely ignored as the Tea Party folks kept talking about a lack of top down organizational structure. This was the guy responsible for getting the Senate GOP to start obstructing. If he had not done what he did, OCare would have passed last year. When he tried again, the fools in leadership ignored him, sending the House a letter instead. How UN of them.

    We must do something now that does not rely on the power of others – especially politicians. Harness the passion now before it is too late and we wake up next year and notice the SCOTUS just used the Commerce Claude (AGAIN) to hand Congress a blank check on power (AGAIN) and that clowns like McConnell and Cornyn are still in leadership and yapping like newborn pups instead of attacking like Pit Bulls. Then the passion will be gone, the moment passed, and the only thing we will be left with is the shocked look on our face and some people saying “I told you so”:

    (http://www.socialsecurityinstitute.com/blog_post/show/487)

    Trust and politican should never be used in the same sentence. Same goes for federal judges. We are really counting on too much from these yahoos. I just don’t see it happening and like I stated above, if you wait too long, dismantling ObamaCare will do more damage than keeping it in place. The eletorate will turn on you and your gains will quickly disappear. And I would submit Obama could very well win another term from the backlash. The insurance companies have been transitioning in the background while the debate occured and preparing. Wait past about a year and I submit undoing OCare would actually be a bad idea electorally. So you would have to slowly roll it back. That would be full of pitfalls and very tricky, so KILL IT NOW. You don’t think they thought of all this?

    The only way to do that is for the people to tell the governement in no uncertain terms that its over. But if enough of us don’t do it, then I think its over – for us. Maybe I am pessimistic, but from the links I provided above I think it would be a heavy lift indeed to convince me that a politician is worth trusting with your life. Given McConnell and Cornyn’s statements, I think my case is made, even if they retract.

  • weatherford

    Senator DeMint can put his repeal bill, or a version of ot, direct on the Senate Calendar, and I’m certain he knows how.

    The steps then are easy.

    “Mr. President, I move to proceed to Calendar Number xxx and ask for the yeas and nays.”

    The chair: “Is there a sufficient second; there is a sufficient second, and the yeas and nays are ordered.”

    Reid or McConnell: “Mr. President, I move to table the motion to proceed and ask for the yeas and nays.

    The chair: Is there a sufficient second. There is a sufficient second. The yeas and nays are ordered; the Clerk will call the roll.”

    And our stable is cleansed.

    I cant make it happen, but you can.

  • Jonas Parker

    I get the same feeling. I just don’t sense the urgency in enough people. Anger is fine but if it doesn’t inspire more action than we’ve seen, it won’t be enough. Imagine what the left would be doing if the ‘shoe were on the other foot’. We’ll see what happens in November and in 2012, but I don’t have a good feeling about this. Hope I’m wrong.

  • Jonas Parker

    I get the same feeling. I just don’t sense the urgency in enough people. Anger is fine but if it doesn’t inspire more action than we’ve seen, it won’t be enough. Imagine what the left would be doing if the ‘shoe were on the other foot’. We’ll see what happens in November and in 2012, but I don’t have a good feeling about this. Hope I’m wrong.

  • erod

    should read this article in American Thinker it brought up my spirits.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/obamas_empty_healthcare_victor.html

  • erod

    should read this article in American Thinker it brought up my spirits.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/obamas_empty_healthcare_victor.html

  • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

    Does bring up my spirits. IF all 37 pull it off and stick together, doing it right and not buckling, then it is over for Obama and it is over for him as soon as at least 30 of those states really agree to stick to. Even if the SCOTUS finds nullification to be unconstitutional – it IS not. The states are the final arbiters of the constitution – something no liberal wants you to know. However all the states (at least 30, although maybe 20 would do) would have to withhold federal tax revenue if the federal government withheld tax dollars from them and all the states would have to stick together. Do they have the guts to stare down Obama? If they do, he does not have the manpower to enforce ObamaCare AND we will have had the first highly successful display of state’s rights in the history of this country. The liberals would be toast as would their agenda. This is what it will take to stop the train wreck we are on.

    Because even if this thing is repealed, the federal government under the Republicans will still enlarge government – only at a much slower pace. To me, nullification is the only way to put a stop to all this crap right here, right now.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    My Brother? Sister? My mother? Do I owe you money?

    Who else reads comments?

    Still, thanks.

  • leehazel

    Congressman, Ignore the conservatives at your peril sir.

    Repeal, rip out every vestige of this odorous healthcare political atrocity. My God, anything that will add 18,000 IRS agents can not stand!!!

    Replace with the 5 item bill that covers
    Tort
    Portability
    Catastrophic loss
    Pre-existing conditions
    fraud (which BTW has hardly been mentioned. Probably because the opportunity for fraud has been multiplied by at least an order of magnitude)

    PC is Thought Control
    LEE

  • http://www.thecampofthesaints.com robertbelvedere
  • izoneguy

    I heard that!!!

    How about we fire 18,000 IRS agents instead?