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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Saying “Republicans Want You to Die” *May* Be Bad

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  March 26th, 2010 at 11:42 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

“If the other side won’t have an honest discussion, so be it, but let’s not let them pretend they are being honest.”

I did an interview with Brian Lehrer on WNYC this morning — public radio. Congressman Perriello was on before me talking about the line cutting at his brother’s house — an incident that must definitely be condemned.

But what stood out was Perriello whining about John Boehner inadequately condemning the violence despite a clear condemnation and Lehrer then asking me if the title of my post “If King George Will Not Listen” was not an incitement to violence.

He said he’d read the piece. I tried to explain to him precisely what I meant, which can be found in this paragraph:

I’ve said for weeks I was a bit fearful of what would happen as a result. I sincerely pray we are not on the cusp of some group of angry and now unhinged mob lashing out at congressmen for a vote in the Congress. But something seems to be brewing and I frankly don’t think the Democrats should at all be surprised. They were and they knew they were playing with fire to advance legislation many Americans see as the undoing of the American Experiment. Some of those Americans will now conclude that, like with the founders, if King George will not listen, King George must be fought.

A few things struck me:

(1) I repeatedly condemned the violence and Lehrer seems to think I’m egging it on.

(2) He wanted to delve into Republican rhetoric about the march toward socialism and how bad this bill would ruin the country as incitements to violence, but could only muster a “may” be harmful when I pointed out Alan Grayson going to the floor of the House to say Republicans want you dead.

(3) He just could not believe the anger, rhetoric, and hate directed at George Bush and the Republicans in 2003-2008 and during the Patriot Act debate were anywhere near as hateful, harmful, or inciting of violence.

Dwell on point three for just a minute.

He then jumped straight into whether this was leading to a resurgent militia movement and another Oklahoma City bombing. I dismissed that pointing out that the militia movement was never as widespread as feared and however bad the Oklahoma City bombing was, it was the result of the feds handling of the Branch Dividian compound, which is a different issue from passing legislation. Thus ended the conversation.

The circular conversation kept coming back to Republican “rhetoric” and included total dismissals of Democrat rhetoric. If the other side won’t have an honest discussion, so be it, but let’s not let them pretend they are being honest.

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COMMENTS

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  • WoodstockRedCat

    any questions? didn’t think so.
    Thanks for going to the belly of the beast, Eric.

  • msctex

    The assortment of news and entertainment conglomerates we term “The Media” has devolved into the Propaganda wing of the Leftmost branches of the Progressive Movement, which has succeeded in overthrowing the Democratic Party. (Not hat there was tremendous resistance.) They now exist to serve, not to report, and any such interview as the one described above will more than likely turn into a fishing expedition for any verbal gaffe or remark which could be misconstrued and made to serve the purpose of the day, whatever it might be.

    The Press which Jefferson and his compatriots COUNTED UPON to guard us against tyranny, has been co-opted by the those who would inflict the very attacks upon liberty and fundamental personal freedoms Jefferson sought to preserve. So proceed with utmost caution, Erick. Even if you don’t give them what they want, they will still pretend you did, if it is remotely possible to pretend it is the case.

  • Kyle-MI

    There are some that are doing it deliberately, but I don’t believe it is the majority.

    They don’t just disagree with the opposition to Obamacare, they have to insult the opposition by accusing it of being racist, violent, etc. Meanwhile people who reasonably oppose Obamacare hear from the supporters that reason doesn’t matter.

  • fpete13527

    Keep up the fight. Keep speaking right into their backyard.

    If you read the posts all over the web this morning, even on a few liberal sites…..the Dems are getting hammmerd all over the place for fabricating and lying. Even with the lame stream media as accomplices, the truth is coming out so fast that they are simply making themselves look even more foolish than they have already been.

  • http://www.800cart.com Ron Robinson

    1. Louise Slaughter condemns conservative threats and violence and condemns “fanning the flames with coded rhetoric”

    2. Eric Cantor’s office is shot at.

    (#1 is the coded rhetoric) C’mon now! Lehrer only expects you to be as open and aware to nuance and sophistication as he is.

    Yes, they really are that goobered up.

  • jdw4america

    All of this hand-wringing is playing well, at least for the trollops of the leftist movement, the MSM. On planet earth, where I reside, it’s not the right, but the left that produces films about murdering the President of the United States to critical acclaim.

    Shocking? Inflammatory? Hate-speech? Might-set-off-some-nut-to-try? Pish-posh! It’s just an artistic vision…it could have been any random president…just because it’s named The Assassination of George Bush, doesn’t mean we wanted him to die. Honest. It’s just art. The fact that we were screaming for his death in the streets, gosh, can’t republicans take a joke?

    but seriously, these emails are dangerous and you gotta rein in the “tea-baggers” and their hate speech.

  • saltlick

    Did Lehrer ask Periello about his supporters at SEIU?

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    Since the leftists know that they are correct and that no alternative position has any legitimacy, thus any dissent represents ignorance or hate – and thus must be ignored or ruthlessly suppressed. This has happened throughout history whenever the left takes power – the criminalization of dissent.

    And the necessary prior step is to create a causus belli for criminalizing dissent, and that involves guilt by association, mind-reading, and agents provacateurs. Just watch, the play is following the familiar script.

    What is so discouraging is that the press has decided to sell its birthright for ashes heedless of the known consequences of permanent one-party rule…

  • http://www.FranBaker.com frankieb

    Talking to the majority of these leftists is like talking to a brick wall. They don’t hear. They don’t want to hear. They talk past you. They talk over you. They (still!) blame George Bush for every ill in this country.

    But I admire you for going in with the facts. Maybe, just maybe, someone in their audience will actually hear you.

  • The Grognard

    I really wish conservatives and republicans of all stripes would stop rushing out to “condemn” the latest “act of violence” or “threat of violence.”

    Before everyone raises a hue and cry, let me explain.

    For starters, to date as far as I’m aware, their have been no actual acts of violence committed. No one has been physical harmed in any of these so-called “incidents.” Why would we decry violence that really amounts to vandalism of varying degrees? Vandalism is wrong, but it is not an act of violence against a person.

    Now, that being said, we need to understand that there is a narrative here that the media is pushing, and they are playing the right like a fiddle. They make claims that there is “violence” being used against Dems, and the republicans and conservatives rush out to decry those acts. And yet, several of them have been shown to be overblown, misreported, or fabricated. Others have not been thoroughly investigated, and no one as far as I know has actually been investigated, questioned, or arrested for these incidents.

    When we rush out to “condemn these acts,” it gives the media cover. It gives the appearance that we recognize those acts as being perpetrated by someone on “our side.” It makes it look like we are engaging in damage control, that our side of the aisle really is made up right wing nuts waving guns around and shooting at Dems. Certainly there are plenty of nuts out there, and yes there are nuts on both sides of the aisle, but we have no reason to believe so far that any of “our” nuts have done anything wrong at this point.

    Furthermore, it simply shows that we on the right are still way, way too caught up in our own image with regards to the lame stream media and the left. We care about what they think about us. The fact of the matter, however, is that we are evil in their eyes regardless. We are all right wing, bible and gun clinging, racist, hateful warmongers (or whatever the insult du jour happens to be).

    Our politicians and many on the right have this felt need to get out in front of every smear and lie that the MSM and the left puts out. I can understand that. However, we need to fight their lies with the truth, and NOT let them always control the narrative.

    When reporter asks a right-leaning politician or talking head, “Do you condemn these acts of violence against Democratic politicians?”, We are doing nothing more than lending credence to the narrative that these acts were perpetrated by someone on our side, even though we don’t know this yet. We might as well admit that we have stopped beating our wives now and get it over with.

    Take for example Mr. Erickson’s position concerning the propane line cut at Perriello’s brother’s house. Why should we rush to condemn this, as if we have to somehow take responsibility for this? We have no idea what really happened there, so lets not accept blame for something that has not been proven to be “our” fault yet.

    Reagan said, “Trust, but verify.” We need to stop playing into the Dem narrative on this crap. When this stuff gets reported, and folks on our side rush to “condemn” this crap, it makes an impression that there is some credence to the charges the Dems are making before the evidence has been examined.

    It should be completely apparent by now that the Dems will do ANYTHING to pass their agenda, and that the media will cover for them at every point. These people LIE with great proficiency, and we let them control the narrative all the time. We need stop believing anything they say until it has been independently verified.

    After months and months of Stupak claiming he was a “no” vote because he was against tax-payer funded abortions, and then his subsequent betrayal of that principle at the very last minute, I’d think folks on the right would GET IT by now. The left lies and lies and lies.

    How many times do people on the right decry the media bias in this country, and then turn right around and give credence to the latest manufactured narrative?

    Haven’t we learned anything yet?

    When someone proves that a tea partier, republican, or patriot has committed any of these acts of vandalism, or made any threats, then we should condemn violence in our political discourse. Until then, VERIFY first! We’re being played, even though we know that they lie and spin all the time.

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    the way they want them to be, not the way they are. That’s why they earned the term “useful idiots” from the KGB etc during the apparently not yet complete cold war.

    Propagandists, even if they don’t realize they are such, eventually succumb to their own propaganda, truth (to them) being what they make it rather than how it is. When you’re to used to making your own truth, reality is often an unacceptable annoyance to be quietly shooed away…

  • IJB

    I expect them to move on this before November, probably even before getting to things like Amnesty and Cap ‘n’ Tax.

    And if they pass something in this vein, that’s when I think all bets are off.

    If there are any “cooler heads” in the Dem party, let’s hope they prevail before the Dems take this country over a cliff.

    I promise them – if they try to emulate Chavez, et al. it’s going to be very bad for the country, but irrecoverably disastrous for the Democrat Party and the American Left…

  • jdw4america

    I think we’re so used to playing defense that we’ve forgotten – WE’RE THE GOOD GUYS. They’re the violent, elitist, racist, sexists! They’re the thought police and we fall for it every time!

    You are so right! From now on, look ‘em straight in the eye, and ask them to prove it.

  • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

    Most here on RS probably realize (as Erick indicates in his post) the propaganda techniques that Dems and the MSM are using, but it seems the Right in DC (with the possible exception of Cantor) is falling for it and falling all over themselves to condemn the alleged violence and hate, and not offering a double-fisted counter punch back.

    In propaganda wars, the audience is the target of the propagandist, so winning the ‘debate’ is essential. Defensiveness will cause you to lose every time.

    One condemnation is sufficient enough, particularly if no one person or group is taking credit for the violence or threats.

    In order to effectively counter these tactics, a few things should take place:

    Chastise the anchor for falling for the propaganda technique (“Geez, I’m surprised someone as someone as smart as you would fall for such a shallow propaganda technique that the Democrats are using”)

    Have more specific examples than the anchor has time for (he/she won’t want to hear it anyway). Having a comprehensive list posted somewhere would be great (if it has not already been compiled).

    Repeat that the *you* have already condemned the violence and are waiting for the Left to condemn left-wing violence. And go back to citing specific examples.

    [BTW: Did Carnahan ever condemn the SEIU violence against Kenneth Gladney at the town hall meeting?...Has Nancy Pelosi condemned environmental terrorist bombing here in the States, or PETA ketchup squirts?]

    There are more ways to combat this and Erick seems to have done so, but the main thing is: Call them out on their shallow attempt of using propaganda.

  • Jack_Savage

    Now that they are in power, dissent is evil and obstructive and just a teensy weensy bit removed from violence.
    Their violent track record is irrefutable, and they are projecting that onto us.

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    when rushing to the microphone should say “Condemn what? We’re not inciting anything or anyone and so far no one has been harmed. Good luck with having totally pissed off the vast majority of people in your districts, see you in November…”

  • The Grognard

    We should always be willing to state that we are generally against using violence to influence our political discourse, but we MUST turn the tables on these con artists and follow up with, “do you have any evidence that someone on the right perpetrated this act?”

    Lets make these clowns prove their allegations before we admit to beating our wives.

  • NeoKong

    But they never seem to remember what was the third largest murder of U.S.citizens after Sept.11 and Oklahoma city.
    It was the Branch Davidians at the hands of the Clinton administration.
    The Clinton administration was in such a snit over the VRWC that they assaulted a group of Americans who had never committed a single crime and the result was 81 men, women and children all dying a horrible death in a raging inferno.
    They were assaulted by U.S. soldiers being led by Janet Reno.
    Democrats actually turned U.S. soldiers upon U.S. citizens.
    The Davidians may have been a liitle quirky but since when is that a crime…?
    Janet Reno never got so much as a reprimand.
    No Congressional hearings. Not one single person was even fired.
    Scooter Libby got in more trouble about a crime that never happened.

    Lefties would not care if one of their own attacked somebody conservative and killed them just like they did not care when the two U.S. recruiters were shot last year.
    No one cared when the pro-life demonstrator was murdered in front of an Owosso Mich. high school. The killer was sentenced to life just two weeks ago.
    Did anybody even know that….?
    Where was the media….?
    (crickets chirping)

    John Allen Muhammd killed 10 people as the beltway sniper and Nidal Hassad killed 13 people and it seems like two or three Muslim terror plots are broken up every year but it is conservatives, Republicans and talk radio listeners we are supposed to worry about.
    Janet Napolitano even said so.

  • Jack_Savage

    This is exactly what happened to the Duke lacrosse players – everyone, including the DA, condemned them, not because they were guilty but because rape is bad.
    What they should have said, and what we need to say, is that
    1) political violence is as unacceptable now as it was in the 60′s and 70′s
    2) we’ll wait for the facts to come out before we comment on specific incidents 3) Remember that the left has foisted phony atrocities on us before, like Tawana Brawley and the Duke lacrosse players, just to mention two.

  • Bill S

    So far:

    1) Conservative in the primary, Republican in the general

    2) No third parties
    2a) Rule 2 is in effect unless there are GOP-instigated shenanigans, like NY-23

    3) Democrats lie.
    3a) The media lies on behalf of the Democrats.

    Rule 3 and its corollary are in full force in Erick’s diary.

  • Jack_Savage

    Never back down. Millions are with you, and the left is afraid. Don’t forget that.

  • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport
  • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

    …is that half of the Obama supporters have no remembrance of it (too young or too dumb) so there is little time during a TV debate to even explain it as you did above.

    Personally, I think it’s better to cite the amount of left-wing violence by the number of incidents, then go into the specifics.

  • nessa
  • Jack_Savage

    It happened near Ft. Bragg in North Carolina:

    “Abdullah El-Amin Shareef, 30, of Raeford, is charged with murder and four counts of attempted murder…. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty against him.

    Authorities said Shareef stole a city-owned van in Fayetteville on April 14, 2004, and drove north. He hit and injured three men in Fayetteville, then ran over Lonel Bass in Linden, killing him.

    Shareef abandoned the van, took Bass’ pick-up truck and continued north, authorities said. They said he ran down another man in Harnett County before crashing the truck in Fuquay-Varina, where he was arrested.”

  • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

    Noticed the amount of typos and the points have been hit by others.

    Thank you..

  • danasdaddy

    nt

  • Jack_Savage

    They should front-page it.

  • Martin Knight

    PS: I agree 100%.

  • jdw4america

    The left is afraid.

    God Bless America!

  • http://www.inthisdimension.com inthisdimension

    The entire generation of liberals now RULING the country came of age and came into politics blowing-up banks, killing guards, burning-down ROTC buildings to advance their totalitarian, illiberal agenda.

    Now they are in power and have proven their totalitarian mindset and demands by rejecting the will of the people in order to cram up our .. .sorry.. down our throats the most socialist legislation ever passed, legislation that will bankrupt America and destroy the future of the children of Red Staters. (ALL Blue states, like ALL of Europe, are in demographic decline -they don’t HAVE kids so their opinions on the future are NOT important.)

    And now these people who came to prominence and the public eye THROUGH violence, now that they have begun the destruction of America… demand that we NOT FIGHT BACK VIOLENTLY TO SAVE AMERICA?

    You bet.

  • Scope

    You would never have gotten in a word. He is on local conservative radio once a month here. From the moment he starts talking, he just keeps going on and on, and does not allow the host to stop him. Time is up, he has to run back to Congress to do his job that the 5th district sent him to do. Only once, the radio host shouted right over him, “Tom, what gives you the right to vote the way you see fit on bills, when it is not what your constituients want.” Tom’s answer- “Because I was elected as the Representative to go to Washington.” There you have his whole attitude.

    As to the gas line incident, Tom is blowing it all out of proportion. Tom follows the orders of those D’s in charge.

    Here is a local article describing the whole incident.

    http://www2.godanriver.com/gdr/news/state_regional/article/authorities_deem_perriello_incident_deliberate_potentially_dangerous/19396/

    Yes, 2 idiot Tea Party organizers should have not posted any addresses, however, Tom hides from any opposition. His staff, in particular Jessica Barba, his local media person, has had Tea Party protesters(about 20) removed from outside of his office, by the police, while they were holding signs and chanting against the Crap and Tax bill.” She called the police and said they were in fear.

    A congressman’s home address is part of public record. The tea party people thought the address was Tom’s home address. It turned out to be his brother’s.

    The day after the address was posted, the brother’s family came home to the odor of gas. They discovered that the propane gas line from the tank to the grill, located on their back deck, had been cut. As the article states, it was surely an act of “vandalism.” The authorities said that no people or property were in immediate danger. The same day, the brother also found a letter that was addressed to Tommy. Tom, and his girl Jessica, reported that it was a threatening letter. The letter stated “you will have to answer for this on Judgement Day.” That was the threat.

    State Atty General Cuccinelli denounced the threat, and, offered any state assistance in the investigation that he would like. The local police, the State Police and the FBI are already investigating the incident. It wasn’t enough for Tom. He said locally that “toning down the rhetoric”, and “using the ballot box for disagreement” weren’t enough. He said that people who do these things should go to jail. No one is arguing that, but, toning down the rhetoric and voting aren’t enough? Tom is in very bad shape for November. There is little chance that he will be re-elected, even with daddy Soros, and the SEIU.

    The night of Stimpies threat speech, Perriello called on the Republicans to join in denouncing violence, as if it was all the Republicans fault. I wonder if Perriello is also the one who wants Boehner to publicly appologize, for what I don’t know. The Progressives are out of control, because, they know they are going home in November. In Perriello’s case, he’s going back to NY where he lived for 7 years before his 2008 VA election. When in the area, Tommy lives in a Mobile home parked on his brother’s driveway. I guess that still makes it not his address.

  • The Grognard

    However, I’m not really saying anything that Rush Limbaugh hasn’t been saying for years, so I don’t feel I deserve a lot of credit for my post. Rush Limbaugh, quite frankly, is an absolutely brilliant political analyst, and if Republican politicians would listen to what he says more, they wouldn’t constantly PO their conservative base.

    Further, my comment doesn’t have much in the way of backing up my assertions. I wouldn’t feel it was worth a diary unless I was going to spend the time doing some serious opposition research on this matter and providing some very clear examples backing up my assertions.

    On a different note, another thing I forgot to mention is that this latest round of smears and lies does highlight one important thing concerning our Republican politicians and conservative talking heads; to whit, they STILL fear the old, dinosaur media.

    NEWSFLASH: the old media is a giant serpent that has lost its head. It still thrashes about in instinctive reaction, it can still do great harm if we let it, but its dead meat regardless, and while we must be cautious as it thrashes about in its death throes, we no longer need fear it.

  • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport
  • digibal235

    You’re inferring that the Oklahoma city bombing was an inevitable response to the Branch Davidian standoff. You further infer that the threats of violence is the inevitble reponse to the actions of the Congress. You’re kind of a “blame the victim”/”she was asking for it” guy, aren’t you?

    The Oklahoma City bombing was a direct result of a diseased philosophy. The threats against Congressional members and their families are a direct response of still escalating rhetoric and demonstrable lies. You can’t repeat that the government wants to kill your grandparents, that the end of America is nigh, and further that it will bring on the Armageddon and not expect that some on the fringe will take you seriously and literaly.

    You’re either ignorant or willfully ignorant.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    You know, if you time your Special Times better, you can avoid the involuntary twitches that make double posting possible.

  • obladioblada

    The purpose of all of this is in part a pre-emptive strike against the backlash the Dems expect to receive from the voters when they go home on break. People are going to give them an earful in meetings, restaurants and airport terminals and nowadays that also means Youtube coverage of events on the street. They’re trying to suppress dissent by discrediting any and all opposition.

    The critters that voted against the interests of their districts are scared to go home and see what faces them. With good reason.

  • obladioblada

    he may not be aware of the full extent of the anger and violent rhetoric directed against W. It’s not as if it was covered in the MSM or on NPR. Coverage came from alternative media and he’s not likely to have bothered with any media that didn’t fit his worldview, unless it was to confirm it.

    There’s an element of snark in my observation, but really– is he likely to have bothered to follow reports on the ugliness of the 8 year Hate Bush Fest? The problem is that it’s not likely he’s open to being educated on it now.

  • raiderette09

    Another example of the left making threats to those on the right–which I haven’t seen referenced in this current kerfuffle–Rick Santorum. After discussing his opposition to gay marriage, lefty bloggers called for him to be RAPED.

    I wonder if David Schuster considers THAT an example of threatened violence. It’s absolutely astonishing that members of the press can’t recall a single time when a GOPer or conservative was threatened.

  • WarEagle01

    But he’s never really been able to break out of his little boring sad-sack PBS gig. It wants to be like Peter and Dan (pre-Rathergate), but it’s just not happening for him. There probably aren’t one in 1000 Americans who even know who the heck he is. But he keeps on trying, peddling the same crap we get from CNN and the networks, except with a more boring delivery.

  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    Breitbart has an offer out of $10K for anyone with evidence. When the Haiti earthquake happened, Lehrer had an ‘expert’ on, asked him if he thought the US was responsible for the present state of events in Haiti. the expert said yes, due to past manipulation of the rice market in Haiti. Lehrer didn’t question the guy, let him go on and on. WNYC podcast site of Erick’s appearance.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    The media are part of the elite of the Democrat party. Every one of their premises must be challenged. Every one of their questions must be deconstructed and fired back at them in a way that would make Derrida proud. We must use our own resources to get the news out. Youtube everything.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    And if you don’t make a diary of it, someone else will make another diary of the same thing. Don’t be shy. Rework as a diary and post!

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    You can fix every typo and expound further on any points that need it.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    …and are excellent liars.

  • msctex

    Obama, Pelosi et al. are in reality such a pathetic band that they must live in constant amazement they find themselves where they do everyday. They are ALLOWED to get away with these things, due to abandonment of duty on the part of people we supposedly count upon to keep us informed of reality.

    Fix the Media –somehow — and Obama ceases to be a possibility.

    I would suggest the AP and the NYT would be the starting point. In some form or fashion, there must be a way to force these institutions to actually perform their intended function. Some sort of boycott, of heretofore unimagined scope, might be an answer. (And the “Times” may be beyond hope.)

  • chuckie

    …the real purpose of all this is to prepare the ground for the wave of DEMOCRAT MANUFACTURED OUTRAGE STORIES we’ll be hearing over the next few weeks……why should they wait for real right-wingers to possibly do real damage, when they are so practiced at pre-emptive chicanery…???

    …..remember……the swastika painted by the jewish professor on her own door…..the B carved in the obama supporters face – backwards because she didn’t allow for the mirror effect…….the broken windows of the dem campaign office in denver? i think, by one of its employees……and so on…..and so on…..and so on…..

  • The Grognard

    I didn’t do a lot of rewriting, but I edited my comment here and posted it as my first diary.

    Be gentle!

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout