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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The Jeremiah Wrighting of Robert Jeffress

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  October 12th, 2011 at 01:14 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Robert Jeffresss does not have a lick of political sense. You do not, in this day and age, to a gaggle of reporters after introducing a Presidential candidate to a crowd, say that the candidate’s opponent belongs to “a cult.”

You just don’t. It doesn’t matter what you believe.

Robert Jeffress lacks political skills. But he is not a politician. Robert Jeffress is a pastor and witness for Jesus Christ. He is highly effective at what he does.

Mitt Romney’s supporters are trying now to “Jeremiah Wright” Jeffress right out of the mainstream. Romney himself wants Rick Perry to repudiate Robert Jeffress.

As Bryan Preston notes,

The Perry campaign did not select Rev. Jeffress; the Summit selected him and got a perfunctory sign-off from the campaign. Rev. Jeffress’ remark that Mormonism is a cult was not made in his introduction to Gov. Perry, but in remarks made to reporters later. As soon as he was aware of Jeffress’ remark, Perry did in fact disassociate himself with them entirely.

Romney wants to play the victim and is, as are most Mormons, terribly insulted. Romney is not just upset at Jeffress’ characterization of Romney’s faith, he is also upset over Jeffress’ supposed “religious test” wherein Jeffress declared evangelicals should vote for the Christian over the Mormon.

First, I would note that the “religion test” in question in the constitution applies to the state, not individuals. Individuals are free to vote for or against someone because of their religion. People do it all the time. In fact, I won’t vote for someone who belongs to a liberal theological church or for an atheist because of what that says about the person’s world view in relation to my own.

I absolutely have a religious test and I suspect most people do.

Second, I would note that while I am appalled at Robert Jeffress’ impertinent comments and disagree with him on Mormonism’s “cult” status — Christianity too was once considered a cult but at some point a religion becomes too widespread to be considered a cult or fringe element — Jeffress is not some wacko, nut, or fringe person on the outer edge of Christianity.

Robert Jeffress leads one of the largest Southern Baptist churches in America. His church’s outreach to the poor and unchurched serves as a good example for other churches to follow. His theology and religious views are wholly within the mainstream of Christianity in this country and, more precisely, within evangelical circles, including refusing to embrace the idea that Mormons are just another Christian denomination. Heck, his view is the mainstream, majority view of Catholics, the Orthodox, and Protestants.

If the Romney campaign wants to pick a fight or have conservatives shun a mainstream theologian because, whether Romney likes it or not, the pastor expressed a very commonly held view among Christians then while I disagree with Jeffress on Mormonism being a cult, I’ll proudly stand with him against those who want him in some way repudiated.

Jeffress is no Jeremiah Wright and we should not treat him as such.

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  • tailfins1959

    That’s when you learn what a culture is all about. After having lived in the South for decades, it becomes apparent just how fake their principles are and are basically lip service. When you’re down on your luck, you’re more likely to get assistance from a liberal than a Southern Christian. There are plenty a good conservative Christians in the Northeast if you look for them. While they may believe in failed policies, it is more enjoyable to be around a Cambridge liberal than a Southern control freak. Feel free to say “We don’t want you here”! You will just confirm your intolerance.

  • groovychristian

    In my experiences, conservative Southern Baptists, for all of their stereotypes, have been pretty darn generous.

  • http://jakespeaks.wordpress.com/ Jake W

    NT

  • acat

    there’s the good kind, who’d give you the shirt off their back, let you borrow their car for a week, plow your fields, help you rebuild after a tornado .. what are also called “salt of the earth” folk.

    Then, there’s the “evil southerners”, who are only interested in christianity as a way to measure themselves against others.

    The former outnumber the latter, thankfully.

    For the record, my friend was born and spent most of his life in northwest Georgia.

    Mew

  • dapala

    I agree that Jeffer’s comments were dumb even though he expressed a view that, as you said, is mainstream. A huge uncessary distraction. It is only within the last 20 years or so that Mormons even wanted to be considered Christians (that’s why they referred to themselves as Mormons and not Christians since the 1800s). The blow back landed, unfairly on Perry which in addition to his total lack of debate skills further prevents a conservative candidate from gaining any traction against Romney.
    So we are currently stuck with a liberal flip flopper McCain type candidate and apparently no other alternative unless Cain finds some money and organization. I actually think that Cain may be a Trojan Horse for Romney because Cain will not seriously attack him for his Obamacare plan, global warming, or pro-life’-choice-life switching views. Cain maybe running for VP and sucking all the conservatives opposition to Romney away during the primaries.
    Besides his liberal positions, the thing that I fear most about Romney is that once is is selected as the nominee, and not before, you will see an expose on the Mormon church and its beliefs by the mainstream media. This will be the Jeremiah Wrighting that never happened to Obama and it will cause Romney to loose independents and the 2012 election.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    You walk up to someone’s door, leave a big steaming pile of dung on his doorstep, set it on fire and ring the doorbell. If he asks you to leave the premises, he’s just demonstrated his intolerance? Interesting.

  • acat

    Your diary above conveniently ignores that Jeffress also took the opportunity for a swipe at Catholics over the same issue.

    Now, admittedly, the swipe at Mormons is what’s getting the press, but that’s largely a function of Mitt being in the #1 spot; I’d expect the Catholic swipe to have drawn more press if Santorum were polling a bit better.

    I found your attempt to justify the anti-Mormon swipe by pointing out that “Catholics think Mormons are cultists too” highly ironic because of this.

    Your opening paragraph, Erick, hit the right tone – what Jeffress did is indefensible *politically*. I’m not sure why, after recognizing that truth, you made the effort to whitewash him. He’s no Jeremiah Wright, but that doesn’t make him right.

    Mew

  • the_invisible_hand

    I think you need to elaborate a little more Mr. Erickson. You say in the post that you wouldn’t vote for an atheist because what that says about their worldview compared to your own.

    But isn’t there more you could say if you are being honest? Doesn’t Islam stand in contrast to your worldview as much as liberal theologies and atheism? Doesn’t buddhism oppose your worldview?

    I’m asking because I’m having a hard time figuring out what your religious test is here. If your conservative christian beliefs inform your worldview as I’m sure they do, and you won’t vote for people who don’t share that worldview, then you are very restrictive in fact. Much more restrictive than you indicate.

  • the_invisible_hand

    They are not seen as Christian by most Protestants and Catholics, but they are not called a cult by many.

  • tailfins1959

    “The former outnumber the latter, thankfully.”

    As a long time conservative it’s really hard to compute when seeking refuge in the Bible belt was an epic fail and complete financial recovery is found in Cambridge, MA. My boss is ex-Texas hard core leftist. The place where we have lunch is under a portrait of Che Guevara. These people consider Obama a “moderate”. However, they are as helpful and courteous as any group I’ve ever met.

  • groovychristian

    I have a feeling many people have dealings with people who call themselves “Christian” and even go to church every now and then (maybe even a Southern Baptist Church). And the real Christians get identified with the counterfeit.

    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
    -Matthew 7:21

  • http://jakespeaks.wordpress.com/ Jake W

    But to call them all “control freaks” etc. doesn’t really do the situation justice.

  • tailfins1959

    It’s a miracle I’m still a conservative. Proportionally, there seems to be more courteous and friendly hammer-and-sickle Marxists than Southern Christian. I’m just calling it how I see it.

  • http://jakespeaks.wordpress.com/ Jake W

    I’m also from GA, just West of Atlanta.

  • http://jakespeaks.wordpress.com/ Jake W

    Mew.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    Judging from your initial post on this thread, you apparantly make no effort to travel down that road yourself.

  • luvnthebigsites

    Globull warming and Mormonism. Cheap shot? Yea, so? My Candidate is getting murdered here lately. (For a lot more trivial issues).

    *Raspberry*

  • groovychristian

    “They are not seen as Christian by most Protestants and Catholics, but they are not called a cult by many.”

    Then what do Protestants and Catholics call Mormons? I promise you most Protestant pastors and theologians call Mormonism a cult. Along with Jehovah’s Witnesses and Scientology.

    You may disagree about them being a cult, but the belief is pretty mainstream amongst the Protestant/Catholic clergy.

  • ihavehadit

    I would not vote for a muslim with an islamic belief either. This is not a muslim country and we don’t need someone running it that has such an extreme religion. What a stupid question

  • oldbird77

    absolutely this. Too many people call themselves Christian when really they are just not-something else. Culturally they may be heavily influenced by Christianity, but I am tired of cultural “Christians” giving the rest of us a bad name.

  • tailfins1959

    It’s all just a memory now. There’s really no effort to make. I live in a prosperous left wing environment and play by their rules. Be that as it may, their leftist policies are non-functional. Filling a gas tank with water doesn’t work, not matter how nice you are about it.

  • irishgirl

    is just that…a pastor (or reverend). As has already been explained, the Perry team did not ask him to endorse or introduce him; Jeffress has explained Perry has never attended his church, they’re not what he would call “friends’, they’re rather more acquaintances and his remarks about Mormonism were in direct response to a question asked him after the introduction. As a Pastor, Jeffress could not deflect or lie when asked what he thought. He is not a politician. He wasn’t asked about Perry, keep in mind. After the fact, Jeffress has also already made it clear he has no idea what Perry thinks about Mormonism and isn’t concerned whether Perry agrees with him or not. (and apparently Perry disagreed with the “cult” analysis). Whether Pastor Jeffress is right or wrong, if you agree or disagree, or whether you think Southern Baptists in the south are mean mean people (????) this is another pathetic attempt to put Perry in a bad light. Just as stupid as the rock “scandal” in Texas. Pathetic.

  • oldbird77

    Maybe someone should ask Romney what he thinks of orthodox Christians. Mormonism is either a cult or a separate religion like Islam or Judaism. It obviously isn’t the same as historical, orthodox Christianity in any way. I would think that Mormons would consider broadly “regular” Christians (if there were such a thing) as being wrong in their beliefs.

    That said, I wouldn’t not-vote for Romney just because of his Mormon faith, I have policy reasons to cast my primary vote else-where. As Martin Luther said, “Better to be ruled by a wise Muslim than a stupid Christian”

  • acat

    Cat has fond memories of Helen, GA, even though they think Dominos is good pizza.

    Mew

  • Right_Again

    Watching his performance with Anderson Cooper was painful. He is not a politician, but he’s allowed the political left to snobbishly denigrate Republicans for being so intolerant. Their true tolerance will be shown if Romney does earn the GOP nomination. Then the liberal knives will come out to dissect every odd thing about Mormon doctrine and history.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    I commend your fundamental grasp of logic. I happen to think Bozo The Clown was a funny, funny guy. I don’t want him advising me on how to save for my kids college tuitions. Different people are good for different things. And you’re quite fortunate to have found a better class of Lefty than the conceited bumper-sticker idiots I had to put up with in NOVA for a few years.

  • oldbird77

    I’d love to see some of these types of questions directed at Democrats who proclaim to be Christians for once. Ask Obama if he believes the Bible to be the inspired Word of God, If he believes God created the World, If he thinks Buddhists will go to heaven, If he thinks God hears Jewish prayers or any other inane questions that Republicans always get asked.

    Why don’t Republicans just answer these questions by saying that they aren’t running for pope?

  • groovychristian

    he was an “evangelical Christian”

  • acat

    Although I wonder at your use of the term “bible belt”… some view it as a slam, some as a matter of pride.

    I don’t accept that this is a conservative/liberal thing, it’s more of .. southern culture can be very closed to outsiders. Takes a while to work your way in.

    Mew

  • rightwingmom52

    Ask the folks all over Alabama who helped them after the tornadoes ravaged our state. The Christians were not only the ones who sprang into action handing out food, water and every other necessity, they’re also the ones who helped clean up and rebuild in every single community that was hit. I know because I was on the ground with them as was my husband, my son, my neighbors, friends, and co-workers, working side by side with the church folk.

    Here’s a personal example of who helped after the tornadoes. My son was in college at Alabama at the time. His liberal friends cried and cried when the tornadoes hit Tuscaloosa and did a lot of hand wringing over those poor human beings who lost everything (their words). One girl even berated my son because she didn’t think he was appropriate upset, despite the fact that he was the only one in the group who actually had a connection to one of the poor areas that was hit hardest. The home where his grandparents had lived when they were alive was leveled to the ground. Not a one of his liberal friends lifted a finger to do any of the hard, dirty clean-up work. They went home and did their hand wringing in the comfort of their homes. My son came home for two nights and planned to go back and meet his friends who all agreed to help. When he got back to school, not a single one of the group could trouble themselves to even drive a load of supplies, much less get their hands dirty. The people who were there were youth groups from churches.

    I’ve heard a 100 stories just like this one from people who lost everything with the bottom line being that it was the churches who organized and worked side by side not only to help their own community, but also helped across the state.

  • oldbird77

    I’ll take Carter’s word for it. He does a lot of great charity work, especially with Habitat for Humanity. I wish he’d stick to his charity work though and quit making inane political commentary.

    But Kerry was a Catholic and he was pro-choice. Obviously not the position of that Church. I think if someone like Obama is going to claim Christianity he should be grilled about something like abortion where his supposed faith is at such odds with his actions or whether he accepts some of the truths of the Bible that Republicans get mocked for. If he doesn’t, then why does he call himself a Christian.

  • groovychristian

    Yeah, just wait until the liberals ask Romney if he believes unmarried women get to rule over their own planets someday, or if it is just the women that are married to good Mormon husbands.

  • irishgirl

    If anyone thinks this is just being bigoted to point this out, you’re naive. The press will jump all over these type questions in a heartbeat if Romney wins the nomination.

  • groovychristian

    Obama gave the biggest cop-out answer… “it’s above my pay-grade”

    But, agreed. I wish the media would hammer Obama on morality issues with 1/3rd of the zeal that they go after conservatives.

  • oldbird77

    . . . Dems get a pass, because the media knows they don’t really believe this stuff. It’s all a facade to be acceptable to the electorate.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    much with groups they consider schismatics. Interestingly, it’s a one-way street when talking about most Baptists (other than Particular Baptists). Baptists don’t see their history coming through Roman Catholicism, but rather around it. Most don’t give it a lot of thought as to how that works, but just the same most Baptists don’t really see themselves as “Protestants” like Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists and others do.

    All of that was said to give you a little better insight into why they see Mormons & Roman Catholics in the same light, and also why Roman Catholics don’t get all bent out of shape for the most part when stuff like that is said.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    If the global carbon footprint shoe fits, wear it.

  • acat

    that Erick attempts to explain away Jeffress’ slap at Mormons by referencing Catholics.

    Mew

  • oldbird77

    is that conservative Christians can be very tolerant, depending on what you mean by the word. I can not agree with someone and tell them I don’t agree with them but still be kind to them. I can tell a Mormon that I don’t believe like (s)he does and still be friends. For me, that’s the meaning of tolerance. But the media definition seems to be that unless you are an extreme, fringe post-modernist, there is no truth type, you are a bigot.

  • Ann_W

    Protestant with Christian. We have never wanted to be called Protestant, we have always considered ourselves Christian.

    In actuality we have never wanted to be called Mormons because it obscures the actual name of the church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The term Mormon was a nickname given us by others. It’s been adopted by us, kind of, just because it’s shorter than and more familiar than “member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” To each other we call ourselves “LDS”. If you’re going to say something, get it right.

  • oldbird77

    What is the LDS opinion of traditional, orthodox Christians.. . . ? I mean you must believe we’re wrong, otherwise you’d be a Presbyterian, Catholic, or whatever.

    Frankly it’s an interesting theological discussion, and I do like those, but it has little bearing in my mind on the presidential elections.

  • nativetexan41

    During Katrina a group of SB men took trailers and cooked for the people in need, yes there are some SB that are not generous and not for real as with any church. This is just one example of their giving to those in need.
    Sorry tailfins 1959 had a bad experience with Southern Christians, but not all are like that.

    I thought it was pathetic that Romney used the press conference to call Perry out on this. He had his back up guy with him. Mitt is no victim and Perry has already said he did not agree with what Jeffress said. Mitt was grand standing

  • nativetexan41

    I am supporting Perry,he is a good man and good Gov. And the kind of leader we need.

  • Right_Again

    and then proves themselves to be bigots and racists in their attacks on anyone belonging to a minority or religion (all Christianity included) when that person is not a liberal. They are tolerant of Harry Reid and Barack Obama. They will not be so tolerant of Mitt Romney and Herman Cain.

  • pttx333

    Perry is my pick from start to finish – period.

  • kurofune

    Mormons believe that the original church of Jesus Christ lost much when the apostles died. They also believe that what was lost was restored through a prophet named Joseph Smith in the 1800s.

    Therefore, Mormons believe themselves to be the MOST traditional Christians. So what do they think of other Christians? Simple: other Christians are great as long as they’re leading people to Christ, the Son of God and Savior of the world (which is what all real Christian denominations do).

    In fact, in Mormon theology you can go to heaven and get near exactly the eternal reward you hope for by being a good Catholic/Protestant/etc and always following the directions of Christ.

    I hope that clears things up. (Disclosure: I’m LDS my entire life and served a mission in Tokyo)

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    and in defense of Jeffress, please allow me to say I DO NOT THINK HE IS A BIGOT. He was quite clear that he’d prefer a ‘competent non-christian” in office over an “incompetent Christian that espouses unbiblical positions”

    You are ABSOLUTELY correct in stating that Nobody should have to repudiate Jeffress for his words. Additionally… in conjunction to what you said about Jeffress’ ministry… It should be clear to all people of all faiths that Jeffress is committed to mainstream Christian principles — Where as Jeremiah Wright is committed to preaching Black Liberation Theology… There are many distinctions that we could easily make as to why comparing the two is a ridiculous activity.

    I do take issue with you on the matter of a religious test.

    I agree with you that individuals (Christians in this context) have a right to have their own religious test if they so choose… that doesn’t make them bad Christians. It makes them in my opinion foolish at best, and makes them a bigot at worst.

    Now Now Now… don’t get all upset about the word Bigot… If Jeffress can parse the word “Cult” from the pejorative, then I should be able to parse the word “Bigot” from the pejorative.

    Bigot —
    a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

    As I laid out in my diary… I don’t fault Jeffress… he is entitled to his opinion, and I certainly see where by consensus among Christians he may consider himself “right” in the matter.

    But let’s not allow others to play coy… There is a difference between suggesting Mormonism is not considered Christian, as to suggesting in superlative declaration that Mormonism ‘is unequivocally” a Cult, and definitively not Christian. And this is why I stand with Romney in regards to the attitude of some people (even here on this site) that purportedly will absolutely repudiate the sound logic of “Conservative in the primary, Republican in the general” should Romney be the nominee. This I will take issue with. I don’t care for Romney or Huntsman… but what if Mike Lee were to run for President someday? Would he receive the same prejudice?

    A thought experiment: Supposing Mike Lee did run in the future and he might actually be the most competent, most conservative, most constitution loving candidate the GOP can muster in the primary… Would Jeffress’ test get us the most qualified conservative, or would we have to accept the next best thing by say, I don’t know Mike Huckabee… conservative on social issues, record of fiscal sloppiness? HEY CALM DOWN FOLKS its a hypothetical…

    As for your example of your religious test, It doesn’t seem that ‘religious testy’ to me… and here is why…

    I am a big advocate of people voting their conscience (even if their conscience is living in a bigoted cesspool — not saying yours is there)… And as such… they should find the representative that will best represent their political views when selecting someone for political office. And here is why… because that person will likely not let you down. So in my mind we are all required to have our own “litmus test” regarding the candidate of our preference….

    As to why your example to me isn’t a religious test is that your not suggesting exclusion because of the religion itself, you’re suggesting exclusion because of your disagreement with “liberal” aspects of that religious creed… and as for the aethiest well you’re not excluding them for their religion, but for their non-existant religious beliefs. In either case these are litmus tests not religious tests from my thought… but maybe you see them as religious because that’s what’s shaping the criteria for the litmus test.

    Thank you for being vocal about this issue. I appreciate your insight.

  • kurofune

    The term Mormon comes from a book that LDS people view as scripture. This is like calling the Jews Mosians or the Christians Paulites.

    It was originally used in a derogatory fashion and as an insult. The name stuck because LDS is a mouthful.

    The idea that LDS people haven’t wanted to be known as Christians at any point is not true. You may be thinking of the fact that they would rather be known as NON-CREEDAL Christians rather than CREEDAL Christians.

    (Disclosure: I’m LDS and served a mission in Tokyo)

  • kurofune

    I hope no one minds if I clarify Mormon doctrine in the middle of a political discussion:

    You’re referring to the Mormon doctrine that righteous people may have children after this life. The ‘planets’ thing isn’t really the doctrine.

    As a short answer, yes, women or men no married in this life will have such opportunities afterward if they are righteous in this life.

    For more information, try mormon.org

  • kurofune

    I hope no one minds if I clarify LDS doctrine in the middle of a political discussion:

    It’s not bigoted to point out that Mormons believe that Jesus Christ and Satan are both children of God in LDS doctrine. In fact, LDS doctrine holds that we all are children of God.

    However, Jesus is a child of God in a unique sense: He is the Only Begotten in the flesh and additionally the natural heir of the Father. In my reading of the Bible I see no problem with this idea though it clashes with the beliefs of other churches. Also, I find something true about the idea that we all have a great capacity for corruption but also divinity in our natures.

    (Disclosure: I’m LDS and served a mission in Tokyo)

  • mrmises

    This is also not a Christian country. We live in a country where people are free to practice their religion as they see fit without governmental interference. People are also free to vote for a candidate on whatever basis they see fit.

    It is important to note that the worldviews espoused by Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are more similar than they are different. An individual’s faith is a highly personal and complex matter. I believe that in the political sphere, it is important to judge candidates on what they have done and the ideas they offer for the future of the country rather than labels. In political matters, it is easier to understand what a leader will do based on what he has already done instead of projecting how his or her stated faith will actually influence their behavior. Only the individual and God truly understand the nature of that person’s belief and how it informs his opinions and actions.

    Of course, part of what makes this country great is that our disagreement on this matter enriches the public discourse and perpetuates a vibrant republic.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    I don’t think so… because, as I wrote below… I don’t see these as religious tests, but litmus tests… and there is nothing bigoted in attempting to find someone that your share values and beliefs with…

    Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Taoist, Sikhs, Hindis, Bahhai’s, hell even paganism… all have a moral code and ethos that is defined by rite, ceremony, or faith.

    Atheists claim they do not operate on faith… and that they have no doubt that God does not exists… This isn’t a religious exclusion, its an exclusion of a non-religious individual by viewpoint.

    In the extremely hypothetical situation that an Atheist was truly the MOST conservative in terms of Social, Defense and Fiscal issues… then I would consider them.. but that is my criteria…

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    but he is political. He appeared at a political event, made an endorsement, and made overtly partisan statements. He is fair game for criticism. If you don’t want to get hit, don’t get on the playing field.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    they are the largest protestant denomination in the US and second largest church next to Roman Catholics.

    They are the dominant group of citizens and voters in the South, Do you like the way the South votes conservative?

    Its mainly due to Southern Baptists and other Protestants and evangelicals. Its just an empirical fact.

  • irishgirl

    the Mormon doctrine, yet it that does not negate the fact that, if Romney wins the nomination, he will be questioned in this fashion. And certainly agreed that this is not a theological website, but the point is the Mormon faith is outside the “mainstream” as it were.

  • Scope

    Hope it is on the mend and not to painful.

    There is one thing that hasn’t changed with some of us Perry supporters, we still recognize quality, experience, a proven record, and the ability to run a top tiered campaign outside of the debates. I am starting to see a few articles elsewhere where they claim Perry has everything going for him except the debates. I can’t wait to see his economic and energy plans come Friday. I’m sure the liberals and the environmentalists heads will explode. Romney will still be backing his man made Global Warming beliefs. The energy plan will mark the biggest difference between Perry and Romney.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    As a fellow Mormon and long time Redstater…

    Its not that this isn’t inappropriate, but it may be considered a “thread jack”…

    Comments should focus on the subject matter of the Diary…

    Check out the Posting Rules on the site…

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    no text here.

  • Ann_W

    The really hard thing about this whole stupid thing about people throwing bombs about our religion (Jeffress now, Huckabee last time) just to score political points is that they get to have their sound bites out there, but soundbites don’t do justice to our beautiful faith. But this is absolutely a political website, not a religious one. So if you’re interested I’d love to have that conversation someplace else. My e-mail is g o e s q u i c k l y e n j o y at yahoo dot com without all the spaces and with symbols instead.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    Jeffress is a Baptist.

    Baptist Presidents:
    Warren G. Harding
    Harry S. Truman
    Jimmy Carter
    Bill Clinton

    Non-affliated with any denomination(but presumably Judeo-Christian believer or Deist) Presidents:
    Thomas Jefferson
    Franklin Pierce
    Abraham Lincoln
    Andrew Johnson
    Rutherford B. Hayes
    Barack Obama (after he renounced his 20 year stint in Wright?s church)

  • Ann_W

    Michelle Malkin’s recent article where she told about all the disgusting and racist tweets she received when Alec Baldwin encouraged his minions to tweet her was very enlightening.

    They are the only ones who currently ever call blacks names. (Uncle Tom, etc.) and always classy with comments about John Boehner’s “tanned” complexion.

  • wacowboy

    I’ve been a Perry guy since Erick first caught wind that he was considering joining the race. From Washington State, I will admit that I didn’t know much about Perry until 2008-09, after Obama was elected. But I like what I’ve seen.

    And if we were to consider the primary process as a job application, and we the voters were in charge of hiring the right man or woman to be the next president, who would we choose? Perry has the record, the executive and political experience for the job. 10 years as a successful governor, a record of job creation, a record of going against the EPA, a record of standing up to Obama, and more.

    Romney has no such record. Sure he looks good. he performs well in debates. he has run a successful business. But he’s a one term governor who didn’t seek re-election. His jobs record is nowhere near Perry’s. Nor is his environmental.

    Same with Cain. He’s done great work in the private sector. But politics is an entirely different animal, especially at the national level.

    Here’s hoping that when Perry’s economic plan comes out in the next few days, things start trending up for him again.

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    Other than Erick?

    BTW, “equivocate” does not mean what you think it does.

  • runner12

    topic and I am. The only thing I have to say is a compliment to Erick for articulating my position on this issue much better than I did myself.

  • gekster

    Was it this statement you misunderstood.

    Mitt Romney?s supporters are trying now to ?Jeremiah Wright? Jeffress right out of the mainstream.

    Where does Erick do that.

  • Swamp_Yankee

    Nowhere in all these defenses of Jeffress is any acknowledgement of of Jeffress’ comments on Catholicism.. As reported by Politico, Jeffress is documented with the following:

    “The early church was corrupted by this Babylonian mystery religion and today the Roman Catholic Church is the result of that corruption.

    Much of what you see in the Catholic Church today doesn?t come from God?s word. It comes from that cult-like, pagan religion ? Isn?t that the genius of Satan? If you want to counterfeit a dollar bill, you don?t do it with purple paper and red ink. You?re not going to fool anybody with that. But if you want to counterfeit money, what you do is make it look closely related to the real thing as possible.

    And that?s what Satan does with counterfeit religion. He uses, he steals, he appropriates all of the symbols of true biblical Christianity and he changes it just enough in order to cause people to miss eternal life”

    He has a right to speak his mind. We all have that right and, perhaps, a duty to be loyal to our roots. But this is why certain segments of the GOP bases consistently self-destruct.

    Defend him,, that’s good. I’ll defend my parents, nieces and nephews.

    There are 39 million Catholics is America. 16 million Southern Baptists. And I’m not even getting into the Jews, Hindus, Agnostics, Mormons…

    The problem is parochialism and arrogance. This has nothing to do with conservative principles.

    Jeffress is wrong and he will drag Perry and people like him down into irrelevance.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Just wonderin’.

  • Wubbies World

    …. now it is not very well, but about 10 years ago my wife and I attended his church and met and talked to him a few times. It is a really big congregation. I seriously doubt he remembers me. I was just another face in the crowd.

    One thing I do know about the man, and I seriously doubt he has changed any and that is how he views things, especially in matters like these. Political power or influence is something he could care less about.

    He is a man of God and views the entire world through that prism. The only question he is concerned with is if you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It all starts and stops there for him. He believes that the Bible says what it means when it quotes Jesus as saying, “I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through Me”. Any belief that does not accept Jesus as saying that, as the Bible states, is only a path to hell. His only concern is that that no person gets on that path, or if they are on it, that they turn from it. That is all he cares about.

    That is why you never see him in “Moral Majority” like political groups. He doesn’t care about them. If you are practicing a religion that will lead you to hell he will tell you. That is what he did that night. I am certain he will do it again if in the same situation.

    He does subscribe to the Christian ideal where, “we are in this world, but are not of this world”.

    You want a politically savvy pastor, your looking at the wrong guy. Of course, most people will tell you if you are following a pastor where Jesus is second in his priorities, you better rethink your own beliefs. That is something you never have to worry about with him.

  • romeg

    Rednecks are everywhere and merely living in the South doesn’t make one a Southerner. It isn’t just a place, it is, as it has been for more than 300 years, a way of life.

    But gentility isn’t the exclusive domain of Southerners either. You should avoid trafficking in stereotypes.

    As for Perry disavowing Jefferds; maybe when Obama disavows Jimmy Hoffa, then, MAYBE, Perry might consider taking Jefferds to task for his less than thoughtful remarks.

  • http://parsoned.blogspot.com parsoned

    Read Al Mohler’s article on this issue. He is cogent and clear and will help our understanding. www.albertmohler.com/2011/10/10/mormonism-democracy-and-the-urgent-need-for-evangelical-thinking/

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    I meant to say equate… I have been discussing equivocation in terms of logical fallacies in other thread today… my brain is getting a little fried…

    I don’t believe Erick did equate Wright and Jeffress… as for those that have… google it. I don’t have time to play these…”prove it to me with a cited link in APA style format” games…

    It’s not that hard to find discussions and YouTube videos showing the equating of these two individuals over the last 72 hour news cycle.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    Although, I hope Perry can rise above this…

  • runner12

    Sorry, I just don’t trust them that much.

    For the record, if he did say this I completely disagree with him on the Catholic angle.

  • Swamp_Yankee

    You wont find much on “real” conservative sites. This is a liberal site, but its record of him in his own words:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/jeffress-says-satan-behind-roman-Catholicism

    This is for beginners.

  • runner12

    coming from a Liberal site. Is it a video or text?

  • avagreen

    …..even more reason to not vote for the guy.

    And, tailfins, you are welcome to your paint-brush comments (painting one whole group of people with your broad brush), but that type of rhetoric is just as hateful as the people you are trying to smear.
    I man not agree with some of things this group teaches, but I’m not about to condemn the whole group’s benevolent bent.
    Shame!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    sees better in the dark.

  • nepanyrush

    Those who will not vote for someone simple because of their denomination or religion, without regard to the individual, are bigots, pure and simple.

    Yes, there is a long history of such intolerance — Catholics being prejudiced early in American history, Mormon’s having their businesses taken, many smaller groups labelled as cults, and now some bigots targeting Islam. Fortunately, most people in America look at the individual candidate and do not stop with a religion. But voting for or against a religion rather than an individual does make things simple. Don’t like the Catholic view of the trinity — oppose all who call themselves Catholics despite what they may individually believe. Don’t like those who practice Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Islam, or any of the 400 or so protestant denominations, just vote for them,

    Yes, individuals do not matter according to some people. They are disqualified by their being part of a religion, race, or whatever way you want to label people rather than look at the individual person.

    I expected this — that the liberals would bring up Mormonism in the general election. I did not expect this bigotry here on Red State, but it is increasingly being brought up. If these are supporters of a non-Romney candidate being desperate, they just lost me.

  • pttx333

    painful and inflamed and not on the mend yet. Just living on Motrin, etc. The doc said it would take a while, and I sure believe him. Bad thing is having to bathe, shampoo, driving once in a while to the store, etc., keeps it aggravated! Guess if I could sit on a pillow 24/7 or had someone here to help me maybe it would heal quicker. ;-) In the meantime, as Mom always said – “what is, is.”

    I have confidence in our guy. He definitely is quality and has the record. As for me (and I know you’re the same), I couldn’t care less if he is a good debater. That damned well doesn’t get the job done, does it? I’ve heard many say that b.o. would wipe him out in a debate – surely they jest. b.o. can’t string 3 words together without TOTUS and I don’t think he will ever agree to debate anyone.

    Actually, I think Perry’s economic plan consists of the energy issue and removing all of the regs that are in place would be a huge pathway to jobs ASAP. As for the greenies/libs – their heads can explode, they can have tantrums, march, whine, etc., and I just don’t give a flying fig. When they are stomping their feet, rolling in the floor, blah blah – just step over them and keep on truckin’. Ignoring them hurts them the most. Boy, aren’t I just evil? I’m looking forward to our guy winning, lady bug!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    nt

  • lucky364

    Just to be clear. I would vote for Romney if he were to become the nominee. I will not vote for him in the primary.

    Jeffress was a fool to refer to Mormonism as a cult in that venue. He did not help Mr. Perry.

    Why does my religous test include a hesitancy to vote for a Mormon candidate?
    Revelation 22 18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    ***
    Seems pretty clear to me. The Book of Mormon is an Add-on. The Book says that aint allowed. That makes me leary of the judgement of a Mormon that claims Christianity.

    My favorite cousin is LDS. My first girlfriend was LDS. One of my favorite employees was LDS. Those are three of the most beautiful people on this planet. I think they have been deceived, just as I think Mitt Romney has been deceived. I don’t think they have used good judgement in that area. Hence, my reluctance to vote for an LDS member.

    I don’t think I’m the only one out there with this opinion. I don’t believe my position is intolerant. I believe it to be discerning.

  • pttx333

    Waco (TX) with a play on words. Mystery solved!

    As a Texan, I can vouch for Perry. He is a true winner in all of the important areas. He’s been battered, bruised for a long time but is still standing. The last governor’s race he was battered severely by KBH, the Bushies, Bill White, Medina, et al., but he still won. I believe with all my soul that he will still be standing to get rid of the thugs in D.C. and lead us to sanity. It has been a long time coming, and we are way past due for a way out of this evil darkness to which we have descended.

    Hang in there!

  • Scope

    This discussion should not even be happening. I’m sorry that EE had to bring this up yet again, when the story has largely faded into the background, as it should be. Yup, Romney and Christie brought it up in the Christie endorsement speech, but the story has been much more about the Christie endorsement than the Mormon story.

    Very interesting comments from Krauthammer on the panel tonight. I haven’t agreed with much of what Krauthammer has had to say lately but, he did make one good point. Christie endorses Romney, and today Cain runs to the top of the polls. The Christie endorsement of Romney just harmed Romney’s campaign more than it helped him.

  • Swamp_Yankee

    Caught my own typo. 69 billion Catholics, far larger than any other denomination in the country.

    I’m sure in Jeffress’ bubble no of this matters.

  • uncmike

    When running for president last time, Romney said there should be no religious test for this office: “A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.”

    On the other hand, he also stated that “We need to have a person of faith lead the country,” which some (especially agnostics, atheists, secularists, etc.) argue does sound like a religious test. In fact, Romney went on with this line, denouncing decadent European societies as “too busy or too ‘enlightened’ to . . . kneel in prayer.” Romney has also favorably quoted John Adams who said: ?Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.? Romney went even further when he announced: ?Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. . . . Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.?

    Thomas Jefferson was attacked during his 1800 campaign for the presidency by critics who argued he was unfit for office because he did not hold orthodox religious beliefs. His views were, in fact, not in the religious mainsteams of that day–remember the Jefferson Bible? Given Romney’s statements re faith, would he have supported Jefferson in his run? I think not given his stated beliefs, though he would doubtless deny that if asked that question by a reporter.

    Romney’s attacks on Jeffress may well stimulate other inquiring minds to question him on his past. For example, the Mormon church barred blacks from full-fledged membership until 1978, when Romney was already 30 years old. Many fault Obama for sitting in Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years. Would they like to know why Romnet sat still for this blatant religious-based racisim in the Mormon church for so many years of his early adulthood?

    What is that bit about stones and glass houses? Both Romney and now, Chris Christie, who are seeking to “Jeremiah Wright” Rick Perry should take heed.

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    That’s why I asked. I can’t find a quote from anyone in the Romney campaign comparing Rev. Jeffress to Jeremiah Wright. All of those mentioning them in the same sentence seem to be Perry supporters expressing their affront for the similar treatment of the two.

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    but neither did Romney, or his campaign.

  • gekster

    Who equated Jeffress with Jeremiah Wright?
    Other than Erick?

    So what does your statement mean.

  • duke90

    empirical studies that prove the exact opposite to be true.
    http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2005/11/generosity_inde.html

    However, I can guarantee that if you were in any way openly disdainful of your Southern neighbors and their home, they noticed and likely wrote you off as someone that they wanted to see move on. There’s only so many times you can here how awesome That Place I Fled is before you begin to act in a manner intended to encourage people to return there.

  • runner12

    These people have a long history of being persecuted as well. There have been a lot of bad things that have occurred in Western Civilization by political figures who used religion to support their cause.

  • layedbackguy2

    Thank You, Erick.

  • circlegranch

    Nobody but the Romney Machine would have a motive or interest in subjecting Pastor Jeffress to an IRS audit. He’s ruthlessly in pursuit, stops at nothing. Does that concern you? It gets worse: If NH moves its primary up to early Dec., Iowa will vote around Thanksgiving. The Establishment is on the march; take out the tea party candidates early. Happy New Year to that 75% of the GOP that don’t support him. Deal with it.

  • acat

    IRS, like any Fed bureaucracy, does not jump, nor ask “how high?” that fast.

    Mew

  • SoFiMil

    Sigh…

  • SoFiMil

    I smell a troll.

  • runner12

    that claim and it appears it is true, at least partially. A seperation of church and state group is asking the IRS to investigate. Hmmm wonder when they will call for the investigation of Jim Wallace or Jeremiah Wright.

    http://m.theblaze.com/theblaze/#!/entry/so-why-is-a-churchstate-separation-group-asking-the-irs,4e9618e148de273721000001

  • SoFiMil

    From my experience and association with LDSers, it’s a ho-hum role your eyes here we go again. But there was no sense of being offended by Jeffress. …Romney’s pretended aggrievedness notwithstanding.

    What I am insulted about are the quacks who *insist* on *proving* to me that I’m not a Christian.

    They can say it once, but then when they start thinking they know more than I do about my religion, I say, “Enough!” You knocked on my door, I opened it, and politely declined your message. Stop harassing me NOW!

    (I am not making a veiled illusion to Erick.)

  • SoFiMil

    The primary around Thanksgiving also smells, however.

  • jaykali

    Although I would think most evangelicals like myself do think Mormonism is a real departure from authentic Christianity, ‘cult’ depicts something even further out there, like suicide pacts and Nike tennis shoes.

  • runner12

    Not sure if that is true

  • SoFiMil

    Thankgiving, nope.

  • SoFiMil

    I think what gets the anti-Mormons all in a huff is that Mormons are secure in their belief in Christ as the only begotten Son of God the Father. And that really seems to both our detractors and spin them up even more. Yes, sometimes Mormons have doubts about God and doctrines, just as I assume people of other faiths do. But the question of LDS being Christian is not a trial of faith members of the LDS faith wrestle with.

  • omegamale

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI0MBgA7ckA

    You can’t make this stuff up, and RedState is losing all its credibility by defending this guy all because it wants so badly for Rick Perry to win.

  • SoFiMil

    May have to use a different screen name on your next attempt.

  • SoFiMil

    .

  • whitfox3

    You certainly don’t have to like what Jeffries says, but these are sincere religious beliefs, held by millions. (My own demonination would not go quite this far, but we’re on-record that the Pope is an antichrist. That doesn’t mean antagonism towards Catholics, but toward their church’s doctrine.) That this is a surprise to anyone just shows how far political correctness has gone.

    If Jeffries were a political official, I could understand concern that he was using government to promote his own religion. But he’s a pastor, with the license and duty to preach. Those opposing him are free to preach as well. America is based on freedom, not on unity of thought.

    Personally, I think all this is a great religious test. Any candidate taking sides against the First Amendment is not worthy of the top job.

  • omegamale

    How do you dispute what I’m saying?

    He truly does say that, look at about 1:02 in on the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI0MBgA7ckA
    Please defend his words.

  • SoFiMil

    But yes. The Book of Revelations is the last “book” page number wise in most, if not all, Bibles. John may have even authored other testimony in the Bible after his inspired Book of Revelations.

    Other interesting relevant scriptures per this discussion:

    Deuteronomy 4:2
    Ezekiel 37:15-17
    John 10:16

  • daveoconnor

    Do you expect to be taken seriously? You’ve lived in the south for decades and have found it to be full of fakes? Northern liberals are nice. Tell me factually about the per capita giving of Southern Baptists v. say Unitarian Universalists. You post on this site and dare the editors to remove you to “prove” their intolerance. If you believe all of your rant it’s well past time to move on or better yet get some verifiable facts, that’s facts sir, or better yet form your own site full of sweetness, light and your special brand of nursing illusionary grudges.

  • jerry39

    Especially given the fact that Baptists and Catholics are probably the most similar in their beliefs. It suprises me everytime I hear or read some Baptist minister mangle the Catholic faith into their own little strawman and declare the Pope Satan.

    But yes, we’ve heard it before. Contrary to some opinion on this site, having heard it before and tolerating it is not the same as not-minding it. Like EE, I dont focus on particular faith that much, but would not support a “social justice” type Catholic or Protestant, or an Athiest because of their worldview.

    Frankly I wouldnt support a Baptist who thinks the Pope is Satan either if I had a better alternative. Same worldview problem – these are people who have no problem completly mistating the tenants of the Catholic faith and then divine their judgement that the Pope is Satan to prop up their superiority in the minor differences between our faiths. I also have concerns for the duplicity of holding the Bible in such high esteem while believing its authors to be the devil’s spawn. I just assume that most Baptists aren’t even aware that Catholics wrote their bible more than 1000 years before their faith even existed.

    So I have no problem with Baptists, but you’re going to lose my respect when you start the Pope is Satan thing. I am old fashioned like that, and I do put God before Country. So Jeremiah Wright’s rants against America aren’t any worse than some hicks hatred of my Pope.

    I agree with EE 99% of the time, but there is no free speech issue or need to defend free speech. That idiot is free to say whatever he wants. I also agree that Perry doesn’t get condemned for this – it wasn’t his pastor. But it sure wasnt a good political move to have this guy introduce Perry, and now he’s stuck with either offending Morman’s and Catholics or rebuking the widely held and Christ centered theological principle that the Pope is the anti-Christ.

  • minister_of_war

    It is far more insulting to have the key tenet of one’s faith attacked than to be called silly names by silly people. And, yes, Pastor Jeffress is a silly person. If you saw him interviewed by Anderson Cooper, you’d have a tough time disagreeing with this.

    Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints profess that Jesus of Nazareth born of Mary is the Son of God & the Savior of the World. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that only through Jesus Christ can a person be saved from their sins and from the bonds of death. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that Jesus died & was resurrected from the dead days later. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that due to His resurrection, Jesus lives now. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ strongly believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ and it is the goal of members of the Church of Jesus Christ to try to follow the perfect example that Jesus set for us.

    Now, these may be “cultish” beliefs to some, or even some other beliefs that members of the Church of Jesus Christ have could be described as “cultish” beliefs by some. But, nothing can take away the fact that belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ is the most central belief of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And these beliefs have always been the center of the belief system for members of the Church of Jesus Christ.

    It is much more offensive when you tell a person that he or she doesn’t believe what he or she does believe than it is when terms like “cult” are thrown out there. In fact, I’m sure that most people would wear the member of a cult title with honor if it was thrown out by certain people.

    What is not okay is when people tell me that I don’t believe in Jesus Christ. I am a proud Christian & a defender of Jesus Christ. Am I an Orthodox Christian? No, But that’s okay. Am I a Protestant Christian? No. So, if a person told me that I wasn’t a Protestant Christian, I’d be okay with that. Am I a Roman Catholic Christian? No, I don’t affiliate with that brand of Christianity either. Am I what has been termed as an Evangelical Christian? Also no. So you don’t have to call me one, and a person who happens to be in this group referred to as Evangelical Christians can be happy that as a Latter-day Saint Christian, I won’t confuse all of my beliefs with theirs. But the fact remains that I am a Christian none-the-less & that I have a strong testimony of Jesus Christ. Are there differences between my Christian faith & the Christian faiths of people like Jeffress? Thankfully, yes. But I’m not going to point my finger at Jeffress & tell him that I don’t think that he’s a Christian even though I definitely prefer the Christian teachings of my faith to the teachings espoused by Jeffress.

    If a person told me that he or she believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God & I turned around and told that person that it didn’t matter and that he or she wasn’t really a Christian, that would be quite rude indeed. And worse than that, I’d be assuming another important role of Jesus Christ for myself, and that is His role as our Eternal Judge.

  • SoFiMil

    You and Jeffress are in no way intolerant or a bigot. (To clarify my written tone, I’m not being sarcastic.) You make up the salt of the earth, and are sincerely following your conscience. God bless you with the strength to keep doing this.

  • SoFiMil

    NT

  • gekster

    It’s not a defense of Jeffers.
    It’s pointing out a sleeze tactic by Romney supporters.
    Reading comprehension, it will help you understand the article.

  • SoFiMil

    Way to call him on his little game.

  • acat

    Is there a sign that the IRS has or will reply?

    (or, if you prefer, does the head of the IRS have more political savvy than the rev. Jeffress?)

    Mew

  • ribeye

    No, Jeffress’ views are not “mainstream”, he also called Catholics a “cult-like, pagan religion”, and the Catholic League is now calling on Rick Perry to formally distance himself from him

    http://70.40.202.97/jeffress-says-satan-rules-catholicism/

    Since when do conservatives defend people like this?

  • streiff

    Read the Catholic League website. That is what he does for a living.

    No Catholic who has had any substantial contact with most Baptists or the Missouri or Wisconsin Synods of the Lutheran Church are either surprised or offended by this view. It is less common today than 20 years ago but it is certainly not outside the mainstream of conversation in those denominations.

    So, no, “Catholics” aren’t deeply offended. Bill Donahue is offended. There is a difference.

    In case you’re wondering, yes, I’m a Catholic. Yes, I was a Baptist before conversion.

  • streiff

    we have the right to set any standard we wish for whom we vote. What difference could that possibly make to you?

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    last I checked Atheism, Agnosticism, and secularists were not religions. so where is the test of something that doesn’t exist? Jefferson was a deist of a sort, he did believe in God, and he had his own ideas on how to interpret the bible through the eye of faith, Abraham Lincoln was also in this fashion… but in both instances they were not without religion, just not an orthodox organized membership card to a particular sect of religion.

    As for the racism charge against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints… I think you’d be hard pressed to make it a case of racial bigotry, as opposed to a case of a religion practicing according to what they claim is revealed by God. You may not like it, you may think the 1978 revelation was convenient, but exclusion of “full-fledged membership” is inaccurate, exclusion from receiving the Priesthood covenant had no forbearance on membership, so obfuscating a fact to equate to Obama’s attendance at a Black Liberation Theology church to make some point of juxtaposition makes the point moot.

    I don’t believe you can find a quote from either Romney or Christie trying to equate Jeffress with Jeremiah Wright, if you have it, as a fellow Perry Supporter, I would like to see it even if it comes from a campaign official and not directly from either of them.

  • ribeye

    Are you really telling me with a straight face this view isn’t offensive to Catholics?

    Having their faith called a cult-like, pagan religion influenced by Satan? This is NOT a mainstream view among Protestants. Ask ANY Catholic if they would be offended by this description of their faith (besides a RickBot) and see the response you get.

    Rick Perry’s campaign must be REALLY important to you if you can be that intellectually dishonest with yourself that you’re not offended.

  • SoFiMil

    Saw the story today.

    Blessed is he who believes but hath not seen.

  • Flagstaff

    Being an atheist tells no one anything about one’s “worldview.” All it tells you is that the person doesn’t profess to believe in an invisible, undetectable being whose existence can only be a speculation. You really can’t infer anything else at all about him. It doesn’t tell you if he is good or evil, conservative or liberal, white or black, male or female, gay or straight, Democrat or Republican, believes in free will or determinism or that the end does or does not justify the means.

    One caveat: It may tell you one more thing–that the person is willing to tell you the truth about what he really believes, rather than giving you the easy, still politically correct (nay, politically necessary) answer by claiming to believe in a God.