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Better to describe socialism than merely affix the label

Plumbing the depths of Obama's socialist wealth spreading economic policy

“is” vs. “does”

I have always had problems with the use of certain words in the imperfect medium of communication via language.

The -ing words are the most blatant. They should only be employed to describe live events, precisely defined at the time, and so are wholly useless to use in print to be consumed at a later time, unless used to describe a circumstance one can only know after the fact.

For example, I never answer questions asked during sports events or before elections that ask who is winning or losing.

Why?

Whoever actually wins was always in the process of winning, and vice versa.

Therefore, with respect to sports, I always answer by saying who is “ahead” or “behind”.

With respect to elections, there simply is no way to answer an -ing question at all, given that we don’t keep a live tally of votes, as they are cast.

Which brings me to the issue at hand, i.e. Barack Obama’s relationship to “socialism” and the word “is”.

Liberals have avoided a lot of deserved criticism over the years with respect to economic policy and many political issues due to the limitations of language and Republican stupidity in falling into rhetorical traps revolving around the word “is” and its limitations, coupled with sound bite TV journalism, and the usual GOP timidity.

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.


The definition of socialism is vague, except for the last clause, which describes the goal (and to which we shall return shortly).

The fact is that since the New Deal thru yesterday, both parties have supported and will always, rightly in a post-agrarian society, some socialistic policies, especially those that comprise what Reagan referred to as “the safety net for the truly needy.”

We will return to this issue shortly, but now, let’s turn to the issue of the word “is” (though not in the context of a Bill Clinton sexual harassment deposition, though the logical argument is similar).

Democrats use many devices to avoid facing the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of their party of late. One is the straw man of ranking issues and taking refuge in the fact that Republicans are taking action on an issue that might not be number one on the list.

But the more potent argument is when they argue against Republican labeling of actual, live identifiable, democrat human beings.

Republicans will call a Democrat a liberal, and the Democrat will point out a statement or a vote where the particular Democrat agreed with or voted with Republicans on a particular issue or will point out where President Bush or some other Republicans (see Hagel, et al) took a liberal position.

Hence, the difficulty in defining an actual human being with one word.

Which brings us to the “socialism” label as applied to Barack Obama.

This all started when Joe The Plumber confronted Barack The Messiah with an undeniable fact regarding Obama’s tax plan:

Obama would raise taxes on individual taxpayers who claim more than $250K in income.

Obama defended this policy by saying that: “And right now everybody’s so pinched that business is bad for everybody, and I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

Obama has also said that things can get so bad that he would not favor higher taxes. One wonders how bad things have to be for Obama to oppose tax hikes, but I digress.

My purpose here is to show the best way to attack Obama concerning this particular statement, in context. So, what is the context and what is not the context.

1) This is not 1980-1988, when Reagan effectively defined the liberals with that one word thanks to their overt opposition to policies that worked, and the recent, fresh memories of life under dem policies ala Carter and Tip O’Neil.

2) Republicans are stupid, spineless and saddled with recent years in the majority when they not only failed to reduce the size of socialistic government but actually increased same.

Given the above, Republicans, including McCain-Palin, must be specific and follow Joe The Plummer’s argument, Obama’s own admission and the American value of a meritocracy.

We have done well on the latter, but we must avoid the tendency to try and reduce our arguments to one word, i.e. “socialism.” That can only work with a compliant media or a groundwork laid by rhetoric as events occur.

Obama has admitted that tax cuts “during a slow down” would be bad.

He might as well have admitted that water is essential to life, but here we are in America today… God help us.

We are in a slow down. A HUGE slowdown.

Joe The Plummer wants to move on up (play The Jeffersons’ theme), but wonders if its worth it, given that Obama wants to raise taxes for those that move on up.

This is the argument.

Obama wants to counter that he only wants to put taxes where they were when we were in the late 90s Clinton salad days (39%). He might as well argue for the Ike 90% salad days.

Its about now and what raising taxes mean now.

A great case can be made that Obama is a socialist, given his past life, statements, including this one, and votes. We can also make a great case that he is a male. But so what?

The argument we need to make is that his policies would lessen incentives for Joes to work harder.

The label doesn’t matter.

McCain wants to lower taxes for Joes. The label that matters is McCain vs. Obama.

McCain wins that one word argument.

Let’s not get trapped in a bait and switch argument over what Obama “is”. Let’s point out the fallacies of what he proposes.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
Legal Editor for The Minority and HinzSight Reports
Race 4 2008
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

COMMENTS

  • Flagstaff

    Straw-man is the word. They’ve tried to make the argument about whether Obama and/or McCain are socialists or not.

    No need to go into that at all. Joe just used the wrong term, but so what? The answer is, “No it isn’t socialism, and it’s not a tax cut either, it’s government-paid welfare, based on taking money from one group of people and giving it to another.”

    Taxation by anybody other than the government is called extortion.

  • izoneguy

    …and have done so for a long time. Now Obama will be on your doorstep with his thugs to collect the vig. Drug sales will skyrocket.

  • gamecock

    of his plan to raise taxes only on those that make $250K income.

    Its not about what Joe said, but Joe was not wrong.

    Progressive income tax brackets are justified by an element of Marxism, i.e. from each according to his means and to each according to his needs.

    And Gamecock has no problem with it, nor has either party for decades. The issue is HOW progressive, Hence the problem with the label.

    But what Obama said re spreading IS the operative term that defines the GOAL of socialism, and therein lies the area of attack.

    My point is that, based on this incident, we should not leap to a one word “is” label. The groundwork has not been lain for that.

    Is Obama a socialist? obviously

    But the now attentive electorate is not conditioned to respond solely to that word.

    But they are prepared to be repelled by a policy that would punish a man that wants to move up the ladder.

    They are repelled by those that want to take the fruits of their hard work and give it to the slothful.

  • aceintx

    Why can’t we re-recommend when we accidentally Un-Recommend a diary?!!!

  • aceintx

    GC…sometimes I’m terrified at the way we think alike…I’ve been chewing on the same arguement for weeks but I’m not posting at the moment because of time and state of mind i.e. not wanting to unload on Republicans with what I have to say to them this close to the election…

    Anyway…great job saying what needs to be said so concisely and clearly…and I would recommend it if I could!

  • pilgrim

    Excellent column, and I would also say it is better to describe capitalism than merely affix the label. I stumbled across this article, Adam Smith a Patron Saint for 21st Century Trade Unions . An excerpt and quotes from Adam Smith -

    It may surprise some but anyone who bothers to read The Wealth of Nations, will find that this participant in the Age of Enlightenment, was far from an apologist for what is termed unbridled capitalism.

    It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.” The individual is driven by private gain but is “led by an invisible hand” to promote the public good, “which was no part of his intention. Adam Smith

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expence, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. Adam Smith

    In every country it always is and must be the interest of the great body of the people to buy whatever they want of those who sell it cheapest. The proposition is so very manifest that it seems ridiculous to take any pains to prove it; nor could it ever have been called in question had not the interested sophistry of merchants and manufacturers confounded the common sense of mankind. Their interest is, in this respect, directly opposite to that of the great body of the people. As it is the interest of the freemen of a corporation to hinder the rest of the inhabitants from employing any workmen but themselves, so it is the interest of the merchants and manufacturers of every country to secure to themselves the monopoly of the home market. Hence in Great Britain, and in most other European countries, the extraordinary duties upon almost all goods imported by alien merchants. Hence the high duties and prohibitions upon all those foreign manufactures which can come into competition with our own. Adam Smith

    Whatever be the soil, climate, or extent of territory of any particular nation, the abundance or scantiness of its annual supply must in that particular situation, depend upon … the productive powers of labour. Adam Smith

    Knee-jerk protectionism should be a thing of the past for trade unionism. Adam Smith promoted free trade, good conditions for workers, progressive taxation and competition to benefit the public.

  • Tim_Schieferecke

    But I do think there is some value in using Reverse Alinsky on these fools. Some are so dense, I think it is better sometimes just to laugh, mock, and freeze them as fools in the minds of others enduring their spiel. This creatively uses Rules for Radicals against them like Scooby Doo uses a mirror to reverse a mind spell back onto the bad guy. This makes the experience more enjoyable for other conservatives in the area and may just plant the seeds of change in the minds of libs who aren’t too far gone and want not to be considered morons anymore. Hence, Alinsky’s strategy can be used as a souce of good over evil in the right hands. An enemy’s weakest link is their playbook, and it’s good fun to make them look like the asses they are.

  • gamecock

    arguments that I think of.

    God bless

    You are my ilk

  • rational1

    The state of Alaska taxes the oil and natural gas companies and the gives a check to all Alaskan residents. Palin supports this- is she a socialist?

  • neum432

    Mineral rights are the property of the citizens of the state and the state is the steward of these resources. Palin is the administrator of this system. She did not develop it. Maybe some others have a better explanation.

  • gamecock

    Plus, Palin has never expressed a goal of egalitarianism. She has never used class warfare to justify a policy/

    Obama has.

  • aceintx

    nt

  • olsmithie

    I asked a couple of Social Studies teachers why the kids in this public school had no clue who Karl Marx was.

    Of course, I knew the answer before I asked the question.

    Call Obama a Socialist, and as you point out so well, all you get from many is a blank stare.

    Thanks for the reminder write to be effective, not just correct.

    Regards

  • Tim_Schieferecke

    They’ve been doing that revenue sharing thing up in Alaska for a long, long time. Right or wrong, Governor Palin didn’t implement it.

  • StephC

    nt

  • Achance

    and gas. All subsurface minerals are collectively owned by the People of Alaska and the government is Constitutionally charged with using those minerals to the benefit of the People.

    We really don’t tax the Industry much. What we do is impose royalties; we take 12.5% of the oil in kind and sell it on the World market. The other part of our royalty is a piece of what the producers sell it for. That varies “progressively” based on the market price. Since the producers’ production costs are relatively fixed – and long ago amortized – the more they sell it for, the more we get.

    Now, I was really liking $140/bbl. oil and I’m thinking once The One is elected/selected we get back to that price paradigm. Damn it’s hard to be a Republican when you can make so much money off Democrat stupidity.

  • StephC

    From extreme libertarianism to the communal ideals of socialism. The problem is this particular continuum seems to be circular, since man’s base nature inevitably wins out over the ideal of egalitarian models, thus the slide from the ideal socialistic view to utter selfishness of “every man for himself” regardless of the needs or those around him is relatively short.

    For instance, you stated, “the straw man of ranking issues” which can lead in the direction of inequality more swiftly when an authoritarian body decides who needs what more. This is one of the reasons why socialism as an absolute ideal always fails. It doesn’t account for human nature, which is naturally selfish, and tries to force an idealistic model that goes against nature.

    If left to the individual or small community groups that address particulars within that community, socialism works to an extent that charitable works are done. On a large scale, “the truly needy” works only if there is the understanding that a distant authoritarian body is incapable of accurately determining what is truly needy beyond the base needs of food, shelter and clothing.

    Without those clear definitions, the government’s role in such determinations inevitably leads to more inequality while increasing human misery over larger swaths of the general population as fewer and fewer actually receive the bulk of the wealth being produced and distributed. In addition, it leads to a class-based society or caste system with little to no movement from one status to another. When there is no incentive to improve one’s status, production suffers. Over time, when there is little likelihood that one will be allowed to enjoy the fruits thereof it begins the short slide into the libertarianism.

    In other words, it doesn’t work and never will work on a national level.

  • gamecock

    later

  • gamecock
  • StephC

    You did say it’s better to describe it rather than just use the word.

  • gamecock

    5

  • David_Hinz

    How about the New Party philosophy, of which Sen Obama was a member, and of whose endorsement he sought.

    A democratic community committed to the equal moral worth of each citizen will socially provide the cultural and economic necessities food, housing, quality education, healthcare, childcare for the development of human individuality.

    The government provides for the proletariat from cradle to grave.

    Achieving this diversity and opportunity necessitates a fundamental restructuring of our socio-economic order… democratic socialists argue that the values of liberal democracy can only be fulfilled when the economy as well as the government is democratically controlled.

    Central state-controlled economy — like what has worked so well in Europe and Russia.

    We cannot accept capitalism’s conception of economic relations as “free and private,” because contracts are not made among economic equals and because they give rise to social structures which undemocratically confer power upon some over others.

    From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

    This is why Sen Obama’s Socialism is important.

  • gamecock

    what the word liberal communicated in the 80s due to the facts and circumstances at the time.

    Reagan was able to define liberalism by what voters had just experienced from a DC controlled by dems. That lasted for many years.

    Clinton ran against the term and many of the policies.

    Our repubs have not drawn sharp distinctions with the PROPOSALS (not actual laws) of dems in the 90s and 2000s and their own, even on oil drilling etc. Plus, they have voted for liberal policies.

    Therefore, add the above to the lack of any education on the definition and the murky reality, the WORD is not evil by itself.

    hence, the need to spell out the details and how they would hurt people.

    My point about your blog title is that I think it provides an out for the lib dems and their media allies by making the issue membership rather than the ALREADY ESTABLISHED SUBSTATIVE FACT THAT HE SHARED THEIR VIEWS AND SOUGHT THEIR ENDORSEMENT.

    You follow? – Robert Shaw in The Sting

  • PacifistGunslinger

    The current state of Alaska is much closer to socialism than anywhere else in the country. Gov. Palin has had no difficulty redistributing income, which is apparently the foulest of foul deeds. We in Mich do not get an annual disbursement from the treasury, robbed from the oil industry. She increased taxes on the rich and gave those riches to Joe the Plumber types.That, sir, is socialism under your own definition. In addition, you should have read your Marx more carefully. In Das Kapital he clearly describes the fall of capitalism and the picture he painted looks like the world today. Socialists haven’t wreaked capitalism; capitalists have done that all by themselves. As a believer in capitalism, I ask “What happened to my annuities?” Explain that, defenders of the staus quo.

  • notmyactualname

    In this post, you write:

    “Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.”

    Anyone able to use Google can verify that you plagiarized the Wikipedia entry on socialism. This is illegal. (Not to mention embarrassing. If you’re so concerned about the meaning of ‘socialism’, why should you have to rely on Wikipedia for help in defining it?)

    This link might be worth clicking:

    “Wikipedia Plagiarism Ends Journalist’s Career”

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/15/1513216&from=rss

  • David_Hinz

    interestingly enough cowardly anonymous cretin, I find that exact definition used repeatedly across a wide variety of articles and posts all across the internet.

    Are you suggesting that Mike plagiarized the entire piece he wrote, slug? Or just that one sentence definition which I find repeated in no less than a dozen different places. idiot?

    Cretins meet a dKos, I understand you are the honorary chairman.

  • JLenardDetroit

    so he’s a bit touchy about plagiarism. lol

    Note: all the words contained here-in are contained in the publication: Mariam-Webster Dictionary and therefore must mean I stole them. lol

    hint: look up the concept of Public domain

  • JLenardDetroit

    And ALL FEDERAL TAX AUTHORITY REMOVED except to the original Import/Export AND to Charge States for the costs of Constitutionally mandated to Federal Government related expenses (Natl. Defense) all else should be VOLUNTARY.

    This would/should be accomplished by each State having to Pay the Federal Govt. based on Formula of Population/Size/whatever (or “Electoral votes factor” – direct trade of taxes to power) and then each State (STATES RIGHTS, remember those?) would then be responsible for taxing it’s citizens in whatever manner it saw fit to raise that States “share” of the Federal Govt. Expenses.

    One State may rely more on Property Taxes, another Income, or Sales, and a combination there-of.

    Never gonna happen, of course, but the way it should be…

  • notmyactualname

    No, I am not accusing him of plagiarizing the entire article. I am, however, accusing him of plagiarizing the text I quoted. And RedState shouldn’t tolerate even that.

    And it’s obvious he did. It doesn’t matter whether that very phrase is used widely (it’s not; try Googling it). Nor does it matter whether Wikipedia text is public domain (it’s not; it’s under the GNU Free Documentation License, which requires attribution). You are legally, intellectually, and morally bound to give credit to the ideas of others and how they formulate them, rather than pass it off as your own.

    Or, as the Wikipedia article on public domain puts it, “[p]roper attribution to the author or source of a work, even if it is in the public domain, is still required to avoid plagiarism.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUFreeDocumentation_License

    If you care to know, I’m a university lecturer. So I’m kind of in a unique position to evaluate these things, am annoyed when I come across them elsewhere, and report them when I do.

    You should expect better for those who represent this site. (And you should expect better from yourself: by not calling fellow members ‘slug’ and ‘cretin’ when they’re trying to make the site better. Seriously: grow up.)

  • David_Hinz

    I DID google the entire phrase and came up with more than a dozen different places where it was used.

    and I question ANYONE afraid to use his own name who comes in and attacks a long-time poster issuing spurious charges. YOU have no credibility with me. Mike DeVine does.

    For all I, (or for that matter YOU) know, all Mike is guilty of is forgetting to place “.” around the phrase.

    ATTACKS about plagiarism are serious and for a clown to come on the site for the express purposes of attacking a long-time poster — you’ve been here less than 10 hours and the entirety of your history is this “issue.”

    you have no credibility with anyone here…

  • gamecock

    in this context and what I actually did is not plagiarism. If you or Wiki’s wish to try and prove otherwise, sue me.

  • gamecock

    Or were they the first to use same in an 1849 textbook?

    Hey man, this DeVine Gamecock ain’t afraid of lawsuits. My company knows no “nuisance” settlement value, like so many corporate wimps that settled alleged hostile sexual harassment lawsuits, alleged structural race discrimination lawsuits, paper cut and soft tissue personal injury lawsuits or other frivolities.

    If you feel froggy, jump!

    I will accept service of the summons and complaint and then countersue for libel and slander. That way, I win damages and didn’t even have to pay the filing and service of process fee.

    e-mail me for my address

  • stang

    .

  • Putter

    Accusing members of plagiarism, having arrived here a mere 11 hours ago, is not a great way to impress the moderators. If you knew how many attorneys and others with post-graduate degrees were in this thread, you would have remained silent. Something tells me “university lecturer” means lefty, egotistical grad student. Of course, it beats “community organizer”.

  • David_Hinz

    just what the h— is that? Are you a university professor? If so, say so! A “a university lecturer” is such a weasel phrase. that makes you So erudite… Hah-vahd no doubt… sorry, I am not impressed.

  • gamecock
  • gamecock

    that while I do not consider failing to attribute a definition of a word to the source to be plagiarism (P), I must confess that I do make moral distinctions among the spectrum of types and kinds of P. (Obviously, though, if I were going to try and publish and sell a dictionary and lifted the definitions of others, verbatim, that would be different. As an aside, I wonder if their have been any lawsuits over the definition of the word “cat”? but I digress)

    Clearly, P in the context of long passages from other published works in one’s own work, FOR MONEY is actionable.

    In a politician’s speech? Not so much to me. Why? Because if I like what they CHOOSE to repeat as their message, then, I like their choices.

    Biden’s disqualifying character flaws and policy positions are legion before one would get to plagiarism.

    Now, I admit that I am not as sensitive to the plagiarism charge being an attorney whose legal work in briefs, etc..is specifically not copyrightable!

    Moreover, the major purpose of my non-fiction work is to teach and persuade, but also to make money. Its just that for me, I would LOVE to be plagiarized! It gets the word out. But this just me. I am sure I would would have a problem if someone was lifting whole columns or, once my book on my conservative epiphany is published, whole chapters, and selling same.

    So, I understand those real authors here, esp writers of fiction being more serious about the issue.

    I also understand how much hard work goes into writing well and writing on deadlines. I do both.

    more later

  • Putter

    on this and many other subjects. Full disclosure = J.D., U.F. 1987.

  • Aetius728

    But it is also necessary to explain to people why they will benefit from lower taxes on everybody, including the wealthy. More investmen, jobs created, etc.

  • gamecock
  • seattle_ite

    But, I thought that public submission was, in fact, not subject to plagiarism, and that Wiki was (is) a publically moderated venue?

    If so, the original poster is wrong, and a troll.

  • Flagstaff

    this week:

    But they are prepared to be repelled by a policy that would punish a man that wants to move up the ladder.

    And it seems to be working.

  • Flagstaff

    but you need to get some facts straight.

    Alaska doesn’t have an income tax of any kind, so your statement doesn’t even make sense.

    The oil royalties are payments from private industry to the people of Alaska in return for a permit to remove natural resources from the state. I believe everybody gets the same check, with no consideration of “need” or income. There is nothing socialist about that. Now, if Alaska were to take over permanent operational control of the industry, that would be socialistic.