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Packing, partying, paramours, partial birth abortion and Vick’s second chance

Burress, Stallworth, Pitino and Obama

I almost wrote this column after hearing The Panel’s Bill Sammon, Charles Krauthammer and Cici Connally obligatory ”I’m a dog lover”, Michael Vick paid his debt to society and deserves a second chance rhetoric, before exuding all the righteous indignation and disgust they could muster to assure us that, ”but I wouldn’t hire him”.

No word yet if Sammon, Krauthammer & Connally would hire anyone that had performed, paid for or had an abortion; plead guilty to DUI; or committed adultery on a restaurant table.

But, being a USC Fighting Gamecock whose favorite line ever uttered on television was Ben “Chicken George” Vereen’s, “I’m gonna win my freedom” (training and fighting gamecocks) on Roots, I decided to remain silent thinking I lacked a certain moral standing to cry enough’s enough when it comes to animal abuse.

And then on ESPN this week came Dan Le Batard’s revulsion at Plaxico Burriss’ two-year prison term for someone who only harmed himself while Stallworth and Vick harmed “others.”

Others?

Pardon the Interruption but I’m Mike DeVine

And while I agree that Burress’ two-year sentence for violating New York’s unconstitutional gun law was too harsh (I wish he had challenged it in court), one cannot seriously equate Dante Stallworth’s dead human victim of felony DUI (for which the NFL player served 24 hours in jail) with dead or live but injured canines.

Must Gamecock now declare that he is a dog lover? Ok, yes but I don’t want a medal for it and I don’t apologize for hoping my roosters scratch out some Bulldog eyes in Athens in three weeks, but I digress.

I have, since age 6, owned many pooches and house trained them and presently dog sit for friends on a periodic basis, but I mainly love other peoples’ dogs in backyards these days. I would never attend a dog fight and would certainly have berated Vick to his face for engaging in such low class, redneck behavior.

Honestly, I probably wouldn’t be able to stomach even a real cock fight, BUT, I reserve my greatest degrees of disgust, revulsion and righteous anger for those that harm human beings. You know, the creatures made in God’s image? Remember them. Those are the one’s that aren’t safe from President Barack Obama via abortions in the womb; as born alive infants having survived a botched abortion outside the womb; the Shiavo-like seriously disabled and useless also outside the womb; and those the government option deem best suited for morphine than pacemakers. But I digress again.

Ole’! and don’t they eat dog in Laos?

Moreover, when I see many of those that preach cultural relativism re Muslims that abuse women but not Latinos, Southerners and blacks that fight animals, I am a bit put off? Ole’ bullfighting? Eat chikin-fi-la? Horse racing, Winn Dixie greyhounds? Tyson trucks? Chicago stockyards? Do catfish feel pain?

I am also put off when reminded of so many divorce clients I refused to take on when they started off with the “its the principle of the matter”, quickly followed by the “if my house was on fire, I would save my cat before my husband”. No fee would ever have been worth enduring a client that can never have their hatred satisfied.

Enablers need second chances too

Michael Vick did wrong. He got caught up in a cultural phenomena, that coupled with his superstar coddling treatment in college and the NFL, led him to see himself as above the law. He betrayed a great man in Falcon’s owner Arthur Blank.

But don’t you think that the Home Depot CEO now wishes that, the first time he saw Vick show up late at the Flowery Branch, Ga. training camp, much less at the Georgia Dome, accompanied by his “posse”, that he had drawn a line?

Can we hope that Joe Torre takes some scissors to Manny Ramirez Samson’s ponytail? Again, I digress. Maybe it was in Vick’s contract that he was above the rest? I doubt it. Maybe Manny had an “I don’t have to cut my hair like all the rest of the players that have ever played for Torre even if I get caught taking steroids” contract provision? Again, I doubt it.

But wouldn’t you think that a morals clause is implied for any executive position (high crimes and misdemeanors against 19-year old interns, maybe?), especially if one is responsible for college students?

But then, even if such a clause is expressed in writing, it doesn’t matter so long as you can hide the violation for six years. Rick Pitino needs no second chance since Cardinals hate Wildcats more than they hate brazen infidelity.

Would The Panel suspend Pitino?

Still waiting on that episode, along with the one on the human “other” Stallworth harmed.

Yes, I love dogs, even when they are humans in a culture that’s gone to the dogs. Will Vick be as protected from PITA protesters as are those that seek court injunctions to perform 3rd trimester abortions in protester-free solitude?

I agree with Juan Williams that Michael Vick should get a second chance. Christ and America beleive in such. I would also give Stallworth, Burress and Pitino second chances. Pitino should have been fired, but after a time, he could come back to coaching.

I don’t use the word “deserve” with respect to such second chances. I’m a Baptist after all, who believes that even if Mary was the only human on Earth, Jesus would have had to die to save her. Original sin and the wages of sin are death, and all that.

In a legal sense, I reserve the use of the word “deserve” for contract law. See Pitino’s contract and get back to me.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer, Examiner.com and Minority Report columns

“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Originally published @ Examiner.com, where all verification links may be accessed.

COMMENTS

  • Flagstaff

    mom had slipped in ahead of me.

    Good points, if I understand them correctly. Nothing is “deserved” in the realm of moral consequences. The bond holders of Chrysler deserved to have their place in line respected by the bankruptcy court because they had a contract with both Chrysler and society that said so, but just because Vick has “done the time” doesn’t make him deserving of a second chance. That boon is at the discretion of each of us, and of the people who may decide to hire him or not.

    Same with Pitino, Burriss, Stallworth, Sanford, and Edwards. Some may not have done time, but we might reasonable expect that they have at least done penance. (I leave Bill Clinton out of that group–he may not even know what the meaning of “shame” is.)

    Did I get that right?

    I saw that show as well, and it brought a different subject to mind.

    Vick did the time. Buriss will do the time. Stallworth will do the time. Accept for the moment that the panelists were right. After the time is done, the penitent may ask for a second chance. Yet, as it’s an individual decision, it is certainly within the rights of Charles and Cici and Bill to decide that they will shun the miscreant, even though he has done the time. The result is their consensus position that “he is entitled to look for work (with Cici’s caveat regarding defrocked lawyers noted), but I wouldn’t hire him, or associate with him.”

    You can probably tell where I’m going. Two names: William Ayers. Timothy Geithner.

    Neither of these people have even done the time, let alone been penitent, yet they have indeed admitted that they have committed acts which reveal them to be the kind of people we would not want our children to associate with. Yet we have been told by the a SCUM that we have to forgive and forget in their cases, because “they were never convicted.”

    Let’s leave William and Timothy there, as not very honest or nice people–not convicts, not sorry, and definitely not someone you’d ask to watch your house while you were gone for the weekend. They are what they are.

    But return to the Panel’s comments. Summarized: “He did the time, he gets a second chance, but not from me.” Now, what is our President’s personal norm in similar matters? As far as he is concerned, it’s not even necessary for them to DO THE TIME and admit wrongdoing. The aspiring Presidential politician accepted an admitted terrorist into his house as a friend and worked with him on “civic panels,” and eventually as President he named a tax cheat to be the highest financial officer in the country.

    Obviously, his normal ethical and moral level is far below that of “ordinary” citizens. Ordinary citizens won’t associate with a man who has mistreated “mere” dogs. Innocent dogs, to be sure, but as you note, they aren’t people. But the President welcomes a man who attempted to maim or kill other humans into his inner circle. He welcomes a tax cheat into the Cabinet, to enforce the tax laws (laws he himself didn’t observe) over the unwashed masses of honest taxpayers.

    Maybe someday he’ll hire Michael Vick to train the family dog, Bo. If so, at least Vick already will have “done the time.”

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I certainly agree with you on that, and affirm that you correctly interpreted my original sin point and the one re contracts and or vested legal rights.

    But I would add the following to more fully illuminate my main points re Vick et al and Obama, etc, esp including our barbaric culture quite apart form dog fighting.

    I think that Vick’s crime is puny compared to those of Stallworth, Pitino and anyone involved in affirming abortion in any way. I think all should get a second chance in America and that decisions re whether one would hire another should be based on proper rankings of sin and beleif in the repentence of the sinner.

    I personally beleive that Vick is repentant and think his time in jail was excessive. I think a one year suspension from the NFL would have been appropriate. It was dogs after all, not people.

    I have no reason to think that either Stallworth or Pitino is not, but the gravity of the crime of Stallworth argued for a much longer prison term and argues for a much longer suspension from the NFL.

    I think Burress was dumb not to have a holster and should have been punsihed for his reckless conduct, but think the NY law re carrying guns is unconstitutional and overly restrictive.

    Pitino violated a contract and more importantly, is in an executive position, and so, like pastors, presidents, governors and coaches, can be forgiven and get a second chance , but only after paying a heavy price and proving rehabilitation.

    Abortion is barbaric, but unlike dog fighting we all know peoplethat have had abortions or paid for them or voted for democrats that are for them and we all know people that drive drunk. So it is harder to pass judgment.

    But it is oh so easy to get all bent out of shape about dog fighting, after which no humans, not one, much less 49 million, are dead.

    woof

  • Flagstaff

    I certainly wish Burriss had fought on Constitutional grounds. How could he carry a gun legally if NYC doesn’t grant any permits? (That may not be right.)

    Only one small caveat.

    First, people do get hurt in dog fighting, as it revolves around illegal gambling and everything that is connected to that. Some of them get dead. Think Mob.

    Also, the blue-noses use illegal dog activities to try to restrict legal dog commerce.

    DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • JadedByPolitics

    The bottom line for me on human beings is a quite simple test. If you can hurt either a child or a thinking animal and lets be clear here dogs, cats are thinking animals then you can hurt anyone. You see like children these domesticated and thinking animals TRUST human beings and when they abuse them like a child that animal CANNOT understand WHY?

    I spend a lot of time with rescued animals and I can tell you that adopted dogs especially are 10X better then a breed because they are thrilled to find someone to love them. If you had spent a day at a shelter and could see the fear in the eyes of these animals you sir would understand why what Vick did is a travesty and personally I look forward to him rotting with Kennedy in hell! It takes a SICK, SOULESS individual to hurt God’s smallest creatures. I might add that all serial killers start by abusing and killing animals because once they kill something small they must feed off of something bigger…think about that!

  • penguin2

    You’re covering several points and I may not quite get them all. The crimes against humans as you noted of the other miscreants, esp. in death or injury should have greater punishment.
    We understand and are horrified by the deaths caused by abortion, but obviously those that accept it are not and you are pointing out how they value animal lives over human? You are absolutely right on that. One can take that a step further in the liberal’s world, perpetrators become the “victims” and the victims are the “bad guys.” IMO,the disproportionate sentences given out are influenced by this change in justice concept in our society.

    And here is a strange thought that came after I wrote that, abortion is almost seen as if the baby itself is the “bad guy” and the pregnant woman is the victim. Didn’t Obama say if his daughter became pregnant, he didn’t want her “punished with a baby?”

    Well back, to M. Vick. I think it is morally reprehensible what he did. I have a lot stronger ideas about what should have happened to him. I see deliberately injuring and torturing helpless creatures as a sin against God. And people who can do that to animals, are often found to have very little respect for human life as well.

    I like sports, football too. I just happen to believe that there should be morality on and off the field. I despise how society overlooks and accepts unacceptable behavior just to have a “winning” team. Lowering the bar of acceptable behavior in our society is what has brought us to the number of 49 million dead babies.

  • JadedByPolitics
  • penguin2

    lo and behold, there is your comment. Good, I’m happy for some back-up. Absolutely agree.

  • JadedByPolitics

    GREAT minds think alike!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    with former murderer of humans, The Apostle Paul! Here’s hoping Tony Dungy’s witness took!

  • Justin_Case

    Only time will tell as to whether or not Vick will learn his lesson.

    God is the judge, not any of us. He, alone, knows what is in Michael Vick’s heart.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and felony DUI are all worse moral wrongs than dog fighting, and not an apology for dog fighting, and yet, we don’t have panels on TV where conservatives assert that while adulterers and abortion enablers deserve a second chance that “they wouldn’t hire them,” yet we get the universal righteous indignation about a dog fighter that got 2 yrs in jail.

  • JadedByPolitics
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    definition of same applies to animals, but even if it did, Vick, like Paul and David, could be forgiven and inherit eternal life.

  • Justin_Case

    of the matter.

    what vick needs to understand is that absolution does not come from his fellow humans. Rather, it comes from God. Psalm 51 is in order here.

  • pilgrim

    show me where the sentence given Mr. Vick includes that he can no longer play football in the NFL. It is not there, and he did pay his debt for his crime by serving out his sentence.
    There are other examples, lawyers, for example, who commit a crime and the punishment is imprisonment and disbarrment. I don’t believe Mr Vick is barred from his profession, and he should not be barred.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    killing of very small innocent humans in the millions vs the very visual killing and torture of lesser beings. We need to see the appropriate moral outrage against those that pay for and counsel and support for abortions in the NFL that would far exceed that of dog fighting/killing.

    This culture is barbaric as a whole because of our tolerance of abortion, and not because a small minority culture has lost its way with respect to animal fighting.

    There was animal fighting as sport for centuries in this country and millenia since the beginning of time. But the devolution into killing small humans en masse is since 1973.

    Yet I don’t see panels on TV argue for aborting moms to get second chances even if they wouldn’t hire them.

    That is my main point. The outrage directed at Vick is all out of proportion.

    Before we all get exorcised about the circumstance of Vick’s soul, let us gnash teeth about our own including those that have abortions, pay for them , support them vocally or via votes, perform them or acquiesce thru silence because we don’t want to offend all of our moms, sisters, aunts, etc that have had them.

    eh?

    GC hits close to home.

    smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    of course to the time he already was indefinitely suspended for immediately after his conviction and for the last two years.

    Jaded has steered this thread to the issue of Vick’s soul and her apparent belief that killing a canine is the unpardonable sin, when my main theme was to try and put dog killing into perspective with the much, much greater sins of abortion and felony DUI and the lack of moral outrage directed to those guilty of those sins against human beings.

  • Achance

    a couple of other black guys. A slap on the wrist from the “justice” system, if you could get a jury to convict him at all. A whole bunch of “support” from the Jacksons and Sharptons and the other felons in the NFL. Too bad he chose to kill dogs.

  • penguin2

    I’m trying to clarify for myself, GC exactly what you are saying.
    1- the crimes you list are, in your opinion, are worse than dog fighting? And no one cries foul?
    2-pundits make noise about forgiving and second chances and still would hire the guilty fellows, except in the case of M. Vick where there is a marked reluctance to “hire him”?
    3-are you pointing out hypocrisy on the part of the Krauthammer
    et al?
    4-Vick can achieve eternal life if he asks for sincere forgiveness?

    Two points: I have difficulty believing that Vick and the others involved with him are genuine in their abject apologies. There is two much of false repentance in our society. I’m thinking they are only sorry because they got caught. And he and his supporters “blaming” his old high school buds for this shows a lack of personal responsibility too common in our society today. But, you are right, that is in God’s Hands. Second, should the others get a pass? No, but it is about trust as well as the crime. BTW, are you saying adultery is worse than cruelty and torturing animals?

    For myself, I cannot give him a pass on the inhumanity and evil he displayed toward helpless, innocent creatures.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • pilgrim

    The point I see is that he should not be punished in addition to the punishment he has received. You can have contempt for somebody, and still not try to punish them.

  • penguin2

    On abortion, we are the ones outraged, but it is not against the law, hence the people don’t have to condemn it. It is clearer to me what you were trying to say.

    Gamecock, I think the issue for me (and Jaded), is we are outraged that Vick did not get worse punishment to begin with. To me, the dog fighting story was so horrific I could hardly read about it. So, if one serves their sentence as society decreed, then they should have a second chance, including Vick, is that what you are saying? I must be getting blood thirsty as time goes on, I think there should be far worse penalties for the crimes you mention. Until abortion becomes a crime by law, they don’t have to have moral outrage.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    the fact that the mass killing of very small human beings is not a crime makes my point, ie that we are a barbaric society that turns is face from massive murder and so surepticiously seeks some sort of mass absolution in group outrage at much lesser crimes we do outlaw. I refuse to participate.

    Bork discusses this point better than I in Slouching Towards Gomorrah.

    As for as second chances, I certainly favor them for all, with the extent of same involving many factors, but would not pass a law forcing anyone to hire anyone.

    My main point in this column is about US, not Vick, and you stumbled upon my point with the recognition that we don’t outlaw abortion. But I would take the point further in pointing out that just because “society” doesn’t express the proper distinction of outrages, that we don’t have to go along, and by not having disgust at abortion that is so horrific we can’t hardly read about that and THOSE THAT HAVE THEM in greater proprtions than dog killers, we are, I think doing what Burke and King alluded to by letting evil grow when the good people do nothing.

    I think it is incumbant upon pro-lifers to not just be against abortion, but also to show the proper proportion of outrage at it, but that would require losing too many friends that have participated. This hypocrisy simply is too much for me when we then join hands with the pro-choicers and the PETA people in teeth gnashing outrage over dog fighting etc. while effectively forgiving abortion by our muteness exceot in political senses.

    The fact is that actial people commit abortion. There are people with names, female names, with names just like Vick has a name, that have abortions. They could be picketed and NOT HIRED.

    It frosts me for Sammon and Krauthammer to het so righteously indignant about not hiring Vick when they forgive the hiring of Obama who wants Born Alive infants to be killed after botched abortions.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that are legal that cause outrage among masses (smoking), but I think what I am really getting at is that even those that are pro-life and “outraged” are,

    and this includes me

    are not SUFFICIENTLY outraged, so that when I see such a unanimous EASY outrage re animals, who are so easy to love, I am not impressed.

    I am more impressed with love for imperfect human beings.

    Wives seeking divorces who loved their cats more probably planted this seed, but it goes beyond that. I just don’t cotton to easy mass group excessive moral indignation when I know that we are all looking at other with glazed over eyes avoiding our own acquiesence in such larger sins,

    especially when the outrage is directed a particular human being who we are no better than in many ways

    and esp when that person has paid such a heavy price.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I do think criminal punishment was warrented and a suspension from football.

    yes, I think DUI, esp felony DUI homicide, abortion, and adultery are worse than dog fighting and killing dogs, given that human beings are the victims of the former.

    I think Vick is contrite. Thought so when he first apogized when arrested. I know people like him that are raised with good values but who get caught up in a cultural pathology. I have seen many like him repent after being caught. I happen to know a lot about his raising, etc.

    but that is really beside the point. The people saying they wouldn’t hire him didn’t say so because they didn’t think he was repentant. They said so based on the fact that they are “dog lovers” and on the gravity of the crime.

    I love dogs too, as I said. But I don’t want a medal for it.

    Adultery harms helpless, innocent creatures too, ie children. Human children.

    But even if it didn’t, it harms a fellow non-innocent human being, and that is worse than a crime against an animal, in my opnion, which I think the Bible backs up.

    So, to want moral outrage to be proportionate, is not to give Vick “a pass”.

    make any sense?

    Penguin2, I am glad I finally got this issue off my chest after 40 years, and your questions and comments are exactly the kind of discussion I wanted, and think I am better for having tapped into your wisdom.

    Gotta go. I happen to be dog-sitting this weekend and don’t want the carpet soiled!

  • penguin2

    I’ll get this out of the way first. We can agree to disagree about Vick. Because it was not really the point of your diary.

    That said,I can see more clearly the point of your diary. “by not having disgust at abortion that is so horrific we can hardly stand to read about it.” I don’t join forces with PETA, I’m appalled at their tactics and alleged mistreatment of animals. To connect with your point on abortion and lack of outrage, where are all of the animal rights groups when it comes to the destruction of helpless human infants? I’ve pondered that for awhile.

    There is a true story from the late 1800′s of a child who sought help at the Society of Prevention for Cruelty to Animals in NYC. That set up a hue and cry and helped focus on protecting children. Somewhere along the way, we have lost our respect for human life and thus we have unfettered abortions.

    You’re right about being more than a pro-lifer. There has to be active outrage at the moral crime of abortion. As long as society accepts the killing of babies in utero, evil is indeed growing. But you see, that brings us to the next step. When a society does not value the life of its infants, it goes on to be indifferent to the taking of life at any stage and that is exactly what we are seeing when you elect the president we now have and his leftist cohorts.

  • Justin_Case

    We always have difficulty believing someone has changed his ways. A good exercise is to look within oneself and see where we fall short or to look at mistakes our children have made.

    I have learned to never say “never”. Because things can/do happen in life that reflect badly on us – either by our own actions or by the actions of our children.

    When the unthinkable occurs, don’t we want a fair shake when it comes to ourselves or our family?

    Unlike Gamecock, I am unable to quantify sin. It all is bad. This is a minor point to me, because I know where he is coming from. I do agree with him that God’s saving grace is available to everyone. Time will tell regarding Michael Vick.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • penguin2

    keeping up with you. While you were typing this, I had one last comment at 2:29pm down below. It takes me much longer to put my thoughts together for these exchanges. It looks like we ended up with the right issue that was what you intended in the diary. Of course, penguin here is wondering “why didn’t he just say so?” But then, we wouldn’t have developed the important discussion.

    And then you make me laugh, to put in the “dog-sitting” remark. Look, you are talking to a person that rescued a black cricket last night from the cats…

  • penguin2

    I have had a hard time “forgiving” because of how appalled I was at the crime. But you are right about the spiritual aspect of all of this. I will look to God’s Saving Grace. This discussion has brought growth to me also on this very issue. I have continued to judge Michael Vick, and that is wrong. I have to let that aspect go.

    Very thoughtful comment Justin, thank you.

  • JadedByPolitics

    and will TAUNT him and DEGRADE him when I attend Redskin, Philly games here in DC. For as long as he plays with an NFC East team and has to come here I will have him hear my voice. I don’t have to be kind nor forgiving to this ANIMAL of a human!

  • Justin_Case

    have made me who I am today, Penguin.

    Thanks for being here on RedState.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Cunningham was not fully appreciated. Now, something we probably agree on:

    hating the Cowboys!