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Debates show Cain more able than Romney, Perry et al

The businessman eschews semantics and revising history in favor of taking care of America’s business

Is Social Security a  Ponzi scheme? A “failure”? Who cares what one-word description best fits says Herman Cain. Leave such irrelevancies to politicians, academics and bloggers with time on their hands. He would rather be about the business of curing what ails America.

Admittedly, it helps to have a record in business of fixing broken companies rather than having inherited messy state governments and people with demands more complicated than Whoppers or Mafia pizza pies at reasonable prices. But unlike his Bay State, Lone Star State and Gopher State opponents for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination, the former corporate CEO from the Peach State is not afraid of truthful explanations of his present policy positions and frank apologies for past mistakes.

This early 2007 supporter of Mitt Romney, before Fred Thompson briefly dropped in on the 2008 race, began this campaign in Cain’s corner, having volunteered for his unsuccessful Georgia senatorial bid in 2004. But we quickly became disillusioned when our Atlanta neighbor and former 750 WSB-AM radio talk show host took an extreme and unconstitutional position opposing the building of a mosque within the city limits of Murfreesboro, Tennessee; and seemed not up to speed on the Palestinian demand for the “right of return” of so-called refugees to Israel and other issues in the first two debates.

Cain’s honesty and common sense trumps slickness

But, to our great pleasure, rather than deny ignorance or mistakes, Cain did his homework, apologized and made corrections in his positions where appropriate. Now, he and fellow Peach State denizen and former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, look like the adults on debate hall stages full of a few unruly children fighting over toys.

Toys? Yes, and especially the age-old stand-by  of mostly meaningless semantic arguments that seek to simplify major issues down to labels.

Whether the Social Security program always was or now is a “Ponzi Scheme” and/or a “failure” in some existential sense, it is not sustainable in its present form. Many if not most federal government programs need to be reformed with conservative principles, returned to the states or ended altogether and most if not all bear no resemblance to schemes known by proper names or geometric shapes.

Could at least one candidate identify problems in plain language and figure out what laws to pass to solve the problems, rather than seek history books for cute analogies? Cain says yes.

Labels matter most with unknown quantities. Obama has a record Americans live under and loathe for what it IS NOW. So labels warning of what it could evolve into aren’t necessary.

This rule also applies to attempts to label Obama, Democrats and their policies with one-word, generally, but on this I do agree with former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney that its best to stick with the “Liberal Democrat” moniker to identify those that advance failed policies, rather than “socialist”.

What Obama and the Dems have wrought is bad, very bad, and everyone knows it. Its bad because of what it has produced that we have to live with it everyday, not merely because of why they have done it and what it may evolve into. Hence, there is no need for a scary label whose main purpose is to warn of what is to follow on a slippery slope. With Obama and liberals, the slope done slipped, so why get into a gotcha question re Ponzis or Marxists etc? No reason.

I suspect that Mitt and Texas Governor Rick (the Rick that didn’t lose a senate race in the crucial swing state of Pennsylvania as his last relevant political act after supporting Arlen RINO Specter for re-election) would, if elected, also advance policies to actually fix the problems of the Social Security program, but they should be held to their own words as written voluntarily in their respective books (not exactly bestsellers, but I digress).

Social Security under the Rule of Law and as lived under by grandparents

I will admit that I agree with Governor Perry that Social Security was unconstitutional when passed. I have even written that I think it would be preferable to re-do the program and pass that new version in the form of a Constitutional Amendment due to its 70+ year place in our national identity and also so that when we conservatives argue for a federal government limited to its  enumerated powers, we would have credibility to oppose other actions liberals favor that are also not authorized by the constitution.

I would hope Perry is competent enough to eventually mention, and not just in passing, that despite the text of the Constitution, the U.S. Supreme Court long ago upheld a program that millions have relied upon for generations, which has provided a Common Law claim of detrimental reliance independent of Article I enumerated powers.

But there is no excuse or basis for calling Social Security writ large a “failure”. Yes, I agree that President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s signature New Deal program had nothing to do with recovery from the Great Depression. I know that the program was greatly expanded beyond its limited purpose as merely an income supplement for the elderly to prevent destitute homelessness. I also know that Congress has continually raided it to add to general revenues so they could pretend not to have increased deficits. And we all know that over time whites and blacks decided to have fewer babies and abort millions, so that now it most assuredly does resemble Pyramid schemes, as if that analogy matters.

But despite all of the above, we won’t help our chances of replacing Barcak Obama in the White House (which chances are of epic proportions) by trashing 70 years of Social Security as a “failure”. It is failing of late due to reasons mentioned above, but to call the whole program for all of its 70 years a “failure” is to demean the term failure.

But what I also know, as do over a hundred million grandmothers, grandfathers, grandsons and granddaughters, is that the program worked quite well for decades. That a program changes over time mainly due to unpredictable demographics doesn’t make it, in its totality, a “failure”, and to say so is to insult a great part of American history.

Conservative hearts and peoples’ last names, amigo

And speaking of insults Mr. Perry, conservative Republicans that don’t favor your “no fence” and discrimination against Arkansas (and the other 49 states, territories and District of Columbia) college applicants because we lack hearts and are Latino last-name loathing bigots! Have you been reading Senator Lindsey Graham’s La Raza speeches?

Sir, have you no shame! I demand an apology for Leftist-style accusations of imputed bigotry and not caring about the needy, and I don’t even necessarily oppose your limited Texas-American dream acts.

I would also suggest that you come clean as to WHY you oppose a fence. I assume your home is protected by security officers AND a fence rather than just by human elements, thus showing that you do understand the value of fences. I also suspect that within the State of Texas (maybe even within just one of your huge counties as large as Delaware), not to mention within the United States generally, that many more miles of fencing have been erected than would be required to place a physical barrier between drug cartel vehicles and the Lower Forty-Eight.

So please sir, what is this magic of standing in El Paso and looking west towards Juarez that makes a fence self-evidently impossible to imagine? If you don’t think Americans are intellectually or technologically capable of erecting such a barrier, then maybe we need an exponentially larger DREAM Act or should we just go ahead and surrender to Ming Dynasty wall-builders from centuries ago?

Of course you know that its ridiculous to just man the border, thus inviting border-crossing events with violence on our side. Of course you know that the mere presence of a fence deters most would-be illegal crossers and prevents mass rushes.

So why not have the guts to say why you really oppose the fence? I would respect you more if you would just say that you wouldn’t like a symbol akin to a Berlin Wall in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. I don’t agree with that analogy for obvious reasons (Keep Out v Keep In, i.e. Iron Curtain prison) and I certainly don’t have the Ron Paul paranoia fear of our own government and love for Iran’s Mullahs.

But sir, please say what you mean, with clarity.

I loved President George W. Bush who killed terrorists, kept us safe after 911, cut taxes and appointed Roberts and Alito; all despite his Texas cultural loathing of fences and propensity for mangling the English language. We the People in a great majority are going to elect the GOP nominee as our next President. So would you please do your homework and be worthy of the honor? Please.

Cain more able, 9-9-9 more fair than FAIR

Another problem we had with Herman Cain early on was his support for the so-called FAIR tax that claims to rid the world of the Internal Revenue Service and bring peace on Earth and goodwill to men.

Earth to Humans: As long as we have to raise revenue internally, there will be an IRS, and people and politicians being what they are, we will always need to periodically purge it of subsidies. There is no panacea that prevents the growth of tax codes. Just look at states with sales taxes for proof that no FAIR tax would prevent same.

I have always agreed that if one wanted to replace the Income tax with the FAIR tax, repeal of the 16th Amendment was imperative given how high the tax rate required under the latter. But given how low Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan rates are, and given my opposition to the much higher rate and Big Brother pre-bate of the FAIR Tax, I am thrilled that Cain has embraced 9-9-9 for now, even if he does so only as a transition to an eventual FAIR tax as these 9-9-9  rates are so low, purges the tax code of all the subsidies, and ends FICA. I suspect the transition to FAIR will never come since I doubt there aren’t enough Americans to agree on baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, Chevrolet and mama; much less eliminating the income tax.

The fact is that no matter what system we adopt, it will grow onerous over time because of human nature and human politicians. We will always have to purge it periodically, of subsidies, exceptions, etc. There is no panacea until Jesus returns.

Romney waiver waivers and Bachmann’s repeal appeal

I have generally been pleased with how much better a campaigner is Governor Romney now than in the 2008 campaign in which I think he (like Rudy Giuliani) overstayed his welcome in Iowa. I trusted Mitt on his pro-life epiphany then and I trust him on his vow to build a border fence and issue waivers fromObamaCare to all states. I do believe that he would honor all conservative pledges and would not seek to impose RomneyCare in place of ObamaCare.

But (you knew it was coming), I want to elect the most conservative candidate we can so that we have the best chance of actually saving the country from inevitable decline into the unexceptional nation ObamaDems seem to prefer.

Mitt needs to be asked if he will join Congresswoman Bachmann’s pledge to also seek REPEAL of ObamaCare and if not, why not? Is it because he wants to retain the pre-existing condition mandate that could kill private insurance all by itself? And if so, how would he re-structure what remains of of an un-waived ObamaCare so as to reduce health care costs and save a health care industry capable of providing reasonable premium prices?

As we alluded to earlier, we want the most conservative candidate that can win. We look at the state of the economy, polls among: Whites, Hispanics, Jews, even Blacks and especially even among those formerly-White guilt driven and non-white guilt driven Independents; and history and feel secure in the belief that a warm bucket of spit could defeat Barack Obama on Election Day 2012 in the popular vote, Electoral College and maybe even the Yale campus.

Hence, our initial excitement even with Bachmann before ambition clouded her un-vaccinated judgment that seems not to understand the meaning of “opt-out” given her false claim that Perry’s executive order would have “forced” young girls to get unwanted shots. She is loose with the facts and allegations of venality imputed to her opponents. But we do think she has raised good points about the Governor of Texas that will “always choose life” (reminds of a Bush government ready to act if someone hurts?) and his corporate cronyism in state government.

The debates have been informative and entertaining for this self-proclaimed “issues guy” that really loathes actual politics, especially this early in the game. But as of now, we lean to Herman Cain. But mostly we lean to wanting the contenders to be honest and become more competent in the game they have to play on the way to taking the Oath of Office on January 20, 2013 to begin the Post-Obama Rebuilding of America.

Mike DeVine

Editor - Hillbilly Politics

Co-Founder and Editor - Political Daily

Atlanta Law & Politics columnist –  Examiner.com

“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

More DeVine Gamecock rooster crowings at Modern ConservativeUnified Patriots,  and Conservative Outlooks. All Charlotte Observer and Atlanta Journal-Constitution op-eds archived at Townhall.com.

COMMENTS

  • Common_Cents

    However, is Cain ready for the lame stream media unleashing “who’s smarter than a 5th grader” treatment? He’s gonna get it if he gets the nod, worse than Palin. He will be made to look like a dumb “pizza man”. I hope he is ready for that and shows everyone he can “deliver”.

    Someone like Gingrich is proven media savvy and nobody will play that game with him unless they want to be surgically dismantled. Our candidate must have that tenacity and quick thinking media savvy (people like Newt, Rudy, Christie, Trump have this ability)

    I’m not sure Cain is that well rounded on enough topics to do that, YET. Of course neither was zero but he had the media on his side and Herman wouldn’t.

    I do see Cain as an awesome VP that could be the attack dog neutralizer of Obama and an important part of undoing the damage to America. It would give him incredible experience for a future Presidential run to learn how DC works, where the bodies are buried, foreign policy chops etc…

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    category of candidates you refer to.

  • kowalski

    He’s a better man than most of the people on the stage at last night’s debate.

    If he was white, he’d be the front runner. If he was a Democrat, he’d be the front runner.

    But the “Black Republican Ceiling” is thicker than glass, it’s tougher than titanium, it’s more solid than the granite under Manhattan Island. At least in this Universe as it’s currently deconstructed, there are no Black Republican/Conservatives who could ever be the President. It’s just not thinkable. And therefore it won’t be thought.

    It’s one of the last legitimate forms of racism in America, and it’s blatantly racist and blatantly legitimate according to the People Who Make People’s Opinions.

  • kowalski

    The very idea that a Black man in America can run for President and do so as capably as Cain has as a Republican is so outrageous and insulting an idea to mainstream thought in this country that it might as well be Quantum Tunneling.

    You might as well be telling people that electrons travel through insulators, or that tennis balls pass through walls without ever being inside them. That’s the approximate degree of difficulty.

    And I applaud the man with everthing I have.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and I don’t think it has anything to do with Mormonism and Evangelicals. Yes, in the primaries, Christians may, all things being equal, choose Perry over Mitt with faith being a small part. In the general, polls show that most anti-Mormon bigotry is among liberals and Democrats that wouldn’t vote for Mitt anyway.

    No, I just wonder if Mitt has a 30% ceiling within the GOP based on trustworthiness?

    I trust Mitt personally, to do what he pledges to do. But I understand the concerns of others

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    or rather… The audacity of personal integrity mixed with humble intelligence and fierce competence! (I suppose that would be too long for a book title by Mr. Cain though!)

    I’ve liked Cain before, but last night’s debate he was extremely impressive, and his answers were in my opinion all home runs. I support Perry for now, but that could change for me. If Perry continues to be less impressive, I may have to re-consider my anti-Romney vote.

  • conservativecurmudgeon

    50? 100? 500, maybe?

    Cain is entirely self-made, and not a product of American political primogeniture, either, I will note. I get a strong, strong whiff of Reagan from the man, too.

  • lastgopinillinois

    I have liked Cain since the first time I heard him speak. He is conservative, a great patriot, witty, humorous, and seems to be turning out to be a good debater. I knew since that first speech, I would never be able to pass on hearing his next event. I hope he goes a long way, and if he doesn’t, maybe there will be a spot for him to fill in 2013 as the head of an agency that needs overhauling. HINT !

  • http://www.last.fm/user/SoonerCaniac soonercaniac

    Let me preface my comment title by saying, as a Cain supporter and donor [my first-ever political campaign donation occurring AFTER Erick declared him finished (thanks for the motivation Erick!)], I am thrilled to see this entry Mike, so thank you for the effort. The positive comments following yet another awesome debate by Mr. Cain both here and at other sites have been inspiring. Mr. Cain tweeted that today was a huge fundraising day, so there’s life in this campaign yet. I am not one to become a fan of any politician because, well, they are politicians. However, as a 6-yr resident of GA, I have been a fan of Mr. Cain for years and, well, he’s not a politician. His message of leadership is intoxicating; read his books on the subject if you don’t believe me. Since I’ve always believed the presidency is not about politics, but about true leadership, Mr. Cain’s impressive leadership skill-set more than qualifies him for the job.

    OK, now perhaps I should just keep my mouth shut, but honesty is the best policy, right? As a proud supporter of the FairTax, I feel it important to clarify that Mr. Cain still supports the FairTax, but has developed his 9-9-9 plan as a bridge to that goal. He has often stated that the FairTax cannot happen overnight and requires thoughtful explanation to the general public over a substantial period of time to build widespread support.

    The “bridge to the FairTax” concept was explained on Neal Boortz’s show not too long ago. Believe me or don’t believe me as you will. I am out of time, so I will not get into a back-and-forth about the FairTax, but I wanted to point that out, for better or worse.

    Carry on! Regards,
    Josh

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    must be on the ticket, either top of second slot

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    even though Johnny Isakson was a Federalist Society friend of mine. I am not a FAIR Tax fan and have written extensively why in years past, but that was not the reason I drifted from Cain several months ago. I am reconciled to his support for it and can live with that. I am just happy to see a great man grow in his new “job” as candidate. He has won me back.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    nt

  • acat

    That Cain so destroys the narrative is, perhaps, why he gets so little coverage.

    He’s inspiring.

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    the FAIR Tax with the 9-9-9 plan as a transition phase.

  • rightwingmom52

    or you should since I’ve said so more than once around here, especially after hearing him speak earlier this year. I’m happy to report that many of our tea partiers in this deep south area like Cain as well. A lot. So much for the south being racist. I’ve yet to gauge his popularity with the local GOP, but hope to check that out at our next meeting.

    As usual, you’ve pulled no punches, and I echo your comments. On a side note, my husband worked with Johnny at his real estate company before he was senator. I have been deeply disappointed with his record in the senate because I had so much respect for him as a businessman.

    Now for a couple of questions. I haven’t delved into the 999 plan, but it sounds good on the surface. Has anyone speculated on what happens to revenues under this plan?

    On a more personal note, are state and local sales taxes affected? I spent $300 at Publix today. Note that I buy almost everything in one trip including household items like detergent in addition to groceries, I was also buying for my son to stock his dorm room, and I hadn’t been in a couple of weeks, so it was higher than usual. Anyway, under 999, I’d be paying $27 sales tax, right? Plus my state and local which is currently 5%? Also, how does it affect state income taxes?

    Sorry for being a little lazy tonight. I just figured you’d already done the homework. LOL.

  • rightwingmom52

    An email from his campaign advises that at one point tonight, he received donations from nearly 600 people within 45 minutes.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    This is the same Herman Cain that made a fool out of Bill Clinton on National Television! Good luck to the MSM getting that to stick.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    Mitt’s ceiling is trust, not Mormonism. I agree he will do what he says… however, its what he might say, that makes me reluctant to support him if he’s the nominee…

    I mean we could wake up one morning, and he could say, “we have a problem in America, that I believe needs fixing… ” and it will end up costing the taxpayer… and growing government.

    For example, Romneycare, was it necessary for him to tackle the 8% issue… or could he have focused on something else… you know productive…? It was a hell of a gamble to re-work the healthcare law of the state for 8-9% especially when he knew Democrats would gut it after he left… it takes a lot of hubris to think you can make something with a small margin that much better…

  • conservativecurmudgeon

    Not so much that Herman Cain was (and remains) a remarkable man and CEO, and would make a terrific President, but also…

    BILL CLINTON, of all things, in contrast to the Current President. At least Clinton had some working knowledge of the private sector, and was quite articulate in expressing his (albeit horribly incorrect) assumptions about business expenses.

    Barack Obama’s view of the real world, real economics, and real, rubber-meets-the-road business situations is entirely absent experiential framework. He offers up nothing but academic shibboleths and Marxist rhetoric. He has absolutely NO understanding of how a business works. At least Clinton understood such elemental concepts as “top line” and could figure percentage costs quickly in his mind. Barack Obama is an empty, platitudinous vessel in this regard.

    It’s quite remarkable how far we’ve plummeted, leadership-wise. Clinton is a disgraced, disbarred, profane pervert. But, he’s no Barack Obama, and I never thought I’d say that.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Would love to see if it will be Cain or Gingrich or both who jump in post-debate polling.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    It dawned on me that Cain / Gingrich would break the VP from same state as Prez rule so we can’t get both at least we can’t get both in Prez / VP slot.

    Gingrich as a cabinet guy would be awesome.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    smile…Romney/Huntsman would go for GA over Obama!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    So you lost your homework, eh….smiile

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    I thought similarly when I first saw this… I also had to laugh when Clinton finally remarked… “well we’d have to take a closer look at that…”

  • Jim Tomasik

    And ask why he is not already a top tier candidate.

    I wish he would do a few things differently though. He needs to stop talking about pizza and talk about other things in his resume’. It is very impressive without making himself sound like a Pizza Hut delivery driver.

    Pizza Hut had/has a 5-5-5 ad campaign. He has a 9-9-9 tax reform plan.

    The pizza smells much better than the tax reform plan. We should not want a sales tax and an income tax at the same time. One monster to manage is enough. There have been flat taxers saying for years that if we went with the FairTax idea, we would end up with both. Cain wants to START with both.

  • Leopard1996

    However, if he did win the nomination, how long would it take for the media to allow with inpunity the tossing around of things like Uncle Tom and sellout from white liberals.

  • LiveStronger

    votes than a 9-9-9 plan. Is there some reason why Mr. Cain feels that 9-9-9 is better than 6-6-6?

  • LiveStronger

    It won’t be Gov. Huntsman. Rumors are that they don’t like each other. Romney wanted Huntsman’s endorsement in 2008 and Huntsman stabbed his fellow Christian in the back by withholding that endorsement.

    Romney should definitely consider Marco Rubio, Tom Coburn, Jon Cornyn, and Haley Barbour. Chris Christie would also be a good choice although he’s not a southerner.

  • LiveStronger

    Gingrich is a smart man. I own his book, “Winning the Future” and I’ve read it. He lays out great ideas that Obama should have considered before he tied himself to the economy and jumped off of the Sears Tower.

    But Gingrich will never be president. Again, for the reading impaired: Newt… Gingrich… Will… Never… Be… President.

    Herman Cain is a wonderful and delightful man. But he has no political experience. No one without any political experience has ever been elected president. The democrats once nominated a newspaper owner to run against Ulysses Grant but Grant destroyed that guy in the 1876 election. We don’t need to rehash all of the reasons why voters expect their president to have some political experience.

    Mitt Romney is hitting all of the right notes for me. He’s a conservative who knows how to broker a deal with moderates and business interests for the common good of the commonwealth. That’s all I ask for in a presidential candidate.

  • LiveStronger

    FAIR tax is dead.

    Even Rush Limbaugh has a lot of skepticism about the FAIR tax promise that we would never end up with both a sales tax AND an income tax.

    I like Romney’s idea about cutting the corporate income tax and the capital gains tax. Let’s also follow Romney’s wise counsel to hold China accountable for violating international trade laws and basic human rights. Let’s punish companies who send American jobs to China and Vietnam. And let’s pass a flat tax like the ones that Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Macedonia have.

  • LiveStronger

    n/t

  • Jim Tomasik

    A Cain Campaign email:

    This week, Florida Governor Rick Scott predicted that the winner of the Presidency 5 Straw Poll would go on to win the GOP nomination. He based this prediction off history: every candidate to win the Republican Party of Florida’s straw poll wins the GOP nomination, including Presidents Reagan and Bush! That’s good news because today HERMAN CAIN WON!

    Here are the results from today’s important Presidency 5 straw poll in Orlando:

    * Herman Cain: 37.11 percent.
    * Governor Rick Perry: 15.43 percent.
    * Governor Mitt Romney: 14 percent.
    * Senator Rick Santorum: 10.88 percent.
    * Congressman Ron Paul: 10.39 percent.
    * Speaker Newt Gingrich: 8.43 percent.
    * Governor Jon Huntsman: 2.26 percent.
    * Congresswoman Michele Bachmann: 1.51 percent.

    In the last 48 hours, we’ve had our best fundraising since Herman formally announced his bid for president in front of 15,000 supporters at Centennial Park in Atlanta, Georgia. We thank our thousands of new friends and donors for their generosity to our campaign. Please give today!

    Still, much more must be done. As we compete with career politicians with war chests stuffed by the Washington elite and special interests, Friends of Herman Cain continues to do more with less. We are good stewards of your contributions, making each dollar stretch farther to help spread Herman’s message of “common sense solutions” across America.

    That’s because Herman Cain knows the value of a dollar. After all, he grew up incredibly impoverished during the Segregation days of the Deep South. His father worked three jobs– as a barber, a janitor and a chauffer– and his mother was a domestic worker. Each dollar they earned was spent wisely and saved so they might achieve their American Dreams. And they did.

    Now, the American Dream is under attack– the same dream that sustained Luther and Lenora Cain, Herman’s parents, throughout their years of hard work and faith in this country.

    The time for the American renewal is now. We cannot wait any longer. We must not tinker around the edges. We must elect a leader whose experience, values and vision can correct the course of this nation and return us to the prosperity envisioned by our Founders.

    Please contribute to our campaign today. With your help, Herman Cain will win the ultimate poll: the ballot box. Give whatever you are able today.

    Thank you for your continued prayers, support and generosity!

    Mitten’s tax reform plan really sucks and it looks like the folks in Florida agree.

  • http://www.redstate.com/thesophist TheSophist

    Maybe all of the attacks on Perry and Romney will take their toll, and Cain may emerge as the “consensus” candidate on all sides.

    I still don’t see his path to victory, but I do agree he’s the man.

    I need to figure out why Romney just doesn’t do it for me…

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    I’m not delusional about his long odds, but I don’t believe in some balance sheet whereby the “frontrunners” get mulligans on bad ideas based on the the poll of the day showing how far behind anyone else is.

  • http://www.last.fm/user/SoonerCaniac soonercaniac

    I appreciate the clarification. Now it’s an even better diary!

    I understand and respect why folks are skeptical about or simply cannot support the FairTax. I will be honest and say I hope FairTax supporters are able to erase the doubts of conservatives (especially) someday. I would love to see conservatives united on this front. On principle alone, the idea of a quasi-voluntary (we all have to buy basic necessities) consumption tax is very attractive. I despise the income tax (16th) amendment for what I believe should be obvious reasons, but I understand the argument that it’s here to say. I suppose I am an idealist at heart and don’t accept that anything is permanent except “death and (some kind of) taxes”. I believe with the will of the people we can overcome the natural decay of Washington and implement an idea like the FairTax.

    At a minimum, everyone will be able to see the tax each and every time they make a purchase. It cannot hide behind a cryptic 1040 and numerous deductions, withholding, and the infamous April tax refund. It automatically forces all folks who make purchases beyond their basic necessities to be paying for the government they voted for. The Fairtax could

    It is this idealism that has fueled my support for Herman Cain. For months so many folks said and still say that it cannot be done, that a man like Herman, a man with no previously held political office, a man without a huge campaign warchest, a man without big name ID, could waltz into a primary battle and emerge victorious. Call it naive or foolish, but I just don’t accept the premise. The Constitution does not discriminate based on political experience or the number of zeroes in the bank account.

    I truly believe you can have hope in achieving the impossible, ESPECIALLY in the USA. If you cannot

  • timkellogg

    How much political experience did Grant have to help him win the presidency? Kinda thought he came straight out of being a Civil War General, but what do I know? How about Eisenhower? I kinda thought he lacked political experience as well, before being elected president, and was a much more effective president than Grant, whom you mentioned clobbering a guy with no political experience as-if Grant had been a seasoned politician, or I’d have avoided mentioning him because he had such a corrupt administration…

    At any rate, electing seasoned politicians over and over has gotten us where we are today, and I’m sick of being told we can’t do anything different. It makes me very angry, just like when Republicans tell us we can’t actually CUT anything once it’s been in place for five minutes, even if it has yet to take full effect. We MUST do something different; dramatically so.

  • http://www.last.fm/user/SoonerCaniac soonercaniac

    Arrgh, how embarrassing, I accidentally hit the enter key on my keyboard while typing. Somehow I guess I clicked off the text box. I have no idea. Obviously, I left a few unfinished thoughts on my post…

    In my second paragraph I meant to say: “The Fairtax could…” actually help to address the very human nature you speak of by directly and frequently exposing them to their part of the “bill” for the operation of the federal government.

    In my final paragraph I meant to say: “If you cannot” achieve the impossible in the USA of all places, well then, maybe it IS impossible after all, at least on this earth. In any case, I err on the side of idealism and accept the consequences. In the end, we have to do SOMETHING to at least FIX the current tax code even if we decide it IS impossible to completely replace it.

    Kudos to Herman for actually coming up with his “simple regression analysis” as he stated in FNS recently, and devising a system that unites flat taxers, FairTax “ers”, and finally lowers this insane corporate tax, which, as we all know (right?), corporations do not “pay” (we do!).

    With sincere regards,
    Josh

  • timkellogg

    I would LOVE to see them get so scared as to get that stupid! Let’s hear the Janeane Garofalo crap from a few (or more) supposedly mainstream/respectable folks and let them expose themselves fully so people will really know where they’re coming from! Do you really think such blatant racism from the left would go-over well with anyone besides their fellow leftist loons? I have much more faith in the average American than that, even after Obama’s election to president.

  • acat

    I’ve posted this before.

    First, the “prebate” will be a magnet for Dems seeking to tinker the numbers to turn it into another “Earned Income Credit”, i.e. increase the amount of prebate beyond what it “should” be. Look at what has been done with the EIC – when someone in jail, who literally earns nada can get a tax rebate, something’s wrong.

    Second, without the “prebate”, the Fair Tax is essentially a nationwide sales tax. I like the idea of a sales tax, but .. there’s one big worry. Small increases in the rate – from 5% to 5.125% for instance, raises the tax on a cheeseburger from $0.12 to $0.13.

    That’s not so bad, right? Well .. Cook County, home to Chicago, has the highest sales tax in the nation, 11%, that’s been slowly ratcheted up over time. The fact that it’s the highest in the country is the only reason the last rate increase got any press.

    So, devil being in the details, if the Fair Tax folk want my support, just show me how it’ll take a 2/3 majority of both houses to tinker with the prebate, and a 3/4 majority in the House to tinker with the underlying sales tax rate.

    Fair?

    Mew

  • timkellogg

    …is definitely the right word, and I haven’t been inspired by a candidate for president before since I was old enough to vote, because by 18 I was far too cynical. I’m still too cynical to have much hope for Cain getting the nomination, but he inspires me, and that’s something. If I actually get a chance to vote in a primary (Kansas has been left out of those chances since my first vote, at age 18, for Buchanan against GHW Bush), I will absolutely vote for Cain, even if he’s out of the race by then and I have to write him in.
    Seeing Herman Cain in the first debate got me started, and I’ve gotten more enthusiastic with each debate. I’ve always been passionate, but not about any actual candidates for office, because if you dig too deep, you always end up finding out how much politicians all resemble each other, regardless of party or where they come from.

  • onemovoter

    The “prebate” idea I think is really unworkable. I know they want to do that as a deal for the “poverty stricken” folks so they can afford the basics like food and clothing.

    Honestly since the retail sales tax is only on brand new final retail, most things would be cheaper if you buy used. The only thing that you have to buy new is food obviously. However since the taxes up the chain are removed and put at the end, the prices would stay the same. People’s income though would go up or about the same as is now.

    I would have no rebate, and if the fair tax is instituted, have it set as an amendment and tie that puppy up with a balanced budget amendment that freezes the rate of the tax, with spending tied to as close to the revenues as possible. I also agree with your 3/4 majority although in both house/senate.

  • Remington_Steele

    GC, great questions, so I had to look it up. You asked:

    “Mitt needs to be asked if he will join Congresswoman Bachmann?s pledge to also seek REPEAL of ObamaCare and if not, why not? Is it because he wants to retain the pre-existing condition mandate that could kill private insurance all by itself?”

    From Romney’s Jobs Plan on his website:

    “As president,Romney will work to repeal laws like Obamacare and Dodd-Frank that havegiven bureaucrats unprecedented discretion to cra?t unpredictable, job-killing regulations by the thousands o? pages.”

    Thus, I would say Mitt is on the record for seeking to repeal Obamacare and Dodd-Frank. (I sure hope he puts Sarbanes Oxley in there too).

  • Remington_Steele

    That was taken from page 2 of the summary PDF… sorry for the funky characters in the quote. Bad paste.

    I’ve always liked Cain, I hope his ongoing performances make him more viable to the whole of the party.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Especially in the area of foreign policy. He’s already make a couple of big flubs there. Sure, you can say he will get the right people to advise him, but without experience, how does he (or we) know he won’t get all the wrong people?

  • acat

    I could be happy with Cain or Perry at this point, although both have issues.

    I could tolerate Romney or Palin.

    I think Santorum or Johnson are too narrowly focussed (and Palin too polarizing, through no fault of her own) to win the general, and would likely give us another four years of Obama.

    Bachmann and Paul are done and should just seek early retirement.

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    He can’t gain experience between now and the primary. Everyone has their own criteria. I can only speak to my own.

  • izoneguy

    Case in point – Obama…..

    At least Perry has been in Texas 10 years and it has not fallen off the map.

  • acat

    Does it concern you enough to keep you home on the day of the general election?

    If so, then .. yeah, it’s a problem.

    If not, then .. yeah, it’s *still* a problem, but .. like Gardasil and the TTC and the Texas Dream Act, it’s only going to matter in the primaries.

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    The last presidential candidate with a (D) after their name that I voted for was Jimmy Carter in 1980.

  • acat

    Many share your concerns, but are wondering who else there is.

    Perry’s debate stumbles have ripped away the proverbial scales, although he could make up ground. I’m also leery of Florida as a litmus test; they may be a bit more “outsider-y” – look at their new governor – than the rest of the country.

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    This leaves (for me) Perry, Romney, & Gingrich. I’m just not interested in someone that will have to learn on the job. We just tried that, and I don’t think having an (R) after their name would be any more successful.

    I won’t really matter anyway, by the time the primary gets to Colorado it’ll all be over. Romney will win it here in any case.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    bravo

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    he means that the GOP only tailors its message for Southerners and that to win more states we have to move left. No, its just that a higher % of Southerners are wiser, ie conservative. But the conservative message can be sold in every state….and the experience of the ObamaDem Depression is converting them to us everyday.
    Obama loses 35-40 states.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    the global warming and RomneyCare given his assurances on policy at the federal level. I trust his years-ago conversion on social issues. But I think his ceiling among GOP voters is the trust issue on govt spending. I don’t think the Mormon issue is big issue in either the general (liberal bigots hate all religions) or the GOP, except that among some primary voters, they break a tie in their mind by choosing the Christian and I wouldn’t call that bigotry.

    Romney’s problem is trust. But I do trust him enough, think he has taken solid consevartive positions on most issues, is a good man, candidate and would be a good President that would be for American exceptionalism and our Judeo-Christian values and good economics.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I have heard him mouth some language about a bill, maybe, to deal with pre-existing conditions and I would love to see it and for all candidates to address that and the laws in place before ObamaCare on the issue.

    more later

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Cain has alleviated some concerns for me by admitting ignorance and doing his homework. But I do think it is a legitimate concern, especially when we have other choices that don’t have that lack of experience liability.

  • defenseconservative

    What utter garbage! I can’t believe that Jim Tomasik recommends it!

    “Cain more able, 9-9-9 more fair than FAIR

    Another problem we had with Herman Cain early on was his support for the so-called FAIR tax that claims to rid the world of the IRS and bring peace on Earth and goodwill to men.

    Earth to Humans: As long as we have to raise revenue internally, there will be an IRS, and people and politicians being what they are, we will always need to purge it of subsidies periodically. There is no panacea that prevents the growth of tax codes. Just look at states with sales taxes for proof that no FAIR tax would prevent same.

    I have always agree that if one wanted to replace the Income tax with the FAIR tax, repeal of the 16th Amendment was imperative given how high would be the tax rate under the latter. But given how low Cain?s 9-9-9 Plan rates are, and given my opposition to the much higher rate and Big Brother pre-bate of the FAIR Tax, I am thrilled that Cain has embraced 9-9-9 for now, even if he does so as a transition to an eventual FAIR tax as these 9-9-9 rates are so low, purges the tax code of all the subsidies, and ends FICA.”

    You’re wrong. The FairTax is MUCH better than the 9-9-9 plan. The FairTax would get rid of the IRS completely and replace the entire federal tax code with the 137-page FairTax Act. The FairTax Act would require the abolition of the IRS and the erasing of all of its records, except those related to SS benefits, which would be turned over to the SSA.

    States that have no income tax are doing MUCH better than those which have a combination of an income tax and a sales tax. Look at Alaska. Look at Texas. Look at Florida, where the debate was staged. Cain’s 9-9-9 plan would provide for both an income tax AND a sales tax, both of which could be raised anytime by the Congress.

    Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is a gimmick, a ridiculous proposal which should be rejected. Fortunately, Cain will never be President, so it’s irrelevant, as is Cain himself. The sooner he drops out, the better. After the Iowa caucus, he will be a former candidate.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Who would enforce the 137-page FairTax plan?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    .

  • http://www.redstate.com/thesophist TheSophist

    The man has had to make key hires to make his businesses run. In many cases, he’s had to turn bad situations around. You just can’t do that on your own; Cain has judgment in spades. I trust him on that.

    Is it that different choosing a smart foreign policy advisor or five? I don’t think so.

    For that matter, Huntsman has tons of “foreign policy” experience, but I wouldn’t trust him to pick my lawn guy.

  • defenseconservative

    The FairTax would be levied by the tax agencies of the 50 states of the Union, 45 of whom already levy a state version of the sales tax. The federal Sales Tax Bureau would only collect the sales tax proceeds that would be remit to the US Treasury, and only audit the states in the case of state malfeasance. It would only need 51 auditors (1 per each state and 1 for DC) to do that. Of course, that’s the federal government, so I guess we can multiply that number by 100, so that would be 5100 auditors. But it would still be 30 times fewer government employees than the current 150,000 Gestapo agents and thousands of bureaucrats employed by the IRS, which the FT would abolish.

    Cain’s plan would keep the IRS and its 150,000 Gestapo agents intact, and keep tax returns that Americans would still have to file by April the 15th. It would keep the federal CIT and the federal PIT, and add a new federal tax – a sales tax. Remember that the current abomination of our tax code BEGAN as a flat income tax in 1913, at a rate of 3% IIRC. Four years later, in 1917, it was a progressive income tax whose top rate was 77% – a rate not even the most fervent advocate of the federal income tax had hoped for in 1913.

    But thanks for admitting that Herman Cain has dumped the FairTax. By saying so, you’ve proven yourself to be more honest than Herman Cain himself!

  • rightwingmom52

    those folks, especially blacks, who are moving to the south in search of better jobs, education, lower crime, etc.? They may not realize they’re conservative, but they’re sure know where to go to find these things. We’ve just got to put the name to what they’re looking for – conservative values.

  • paulplantowin

    O couldn’t learn anywhere, he is too set in his ideology. Clinton rolled with reality and got past some things. Cain seems like a rational, reasonable man. he is an experienced problem solver.
    If he gets the right people around him, I think he can avoid mistakes that are devastating.
    The point – Obama is a poor example of failure to learn. Many would do much better. Cain so far seems like he could adjust.
    JMO

  • papabear

    I just watched his speech to CPAC FL (9/24/11) and it was incredible. Cain speaks with conviction. He understands the principles of conservatism and why he is conservative.

  • silentcal2012

    His position is clear. Its dopey to assume that an executive order and repeal are mutually exclusive. Its plainly written on his campaign site. Repeal is part of his platform.

    Talking about the executive order is an honest response because taking back the senate with a majority that is large enough to overcome GOP moderates is still in question.

    Claiming otherwise hurts one’s credibility.

  • silentcal2012

    Raising and lowering taxes is much more easy than creating a new national tax. Once the national sales tax is in place it will become a permanent fixture. But the rates will not. There will be opportunity to raise the income tax and corporate taxes in the future. Liberals will have three sources of revenue to increase. It will seem harmless and incremental. “Surely millionaires can pay 12% … 15% …

    Conservatives should never accept a national sales tax unless the income tax is permanently abolished.

    This happens in states all the time. They create new revenue streams that are supposed to be temporary or be allocated for a specific purpose, but once the tax, fee or toll is in place, it becomes a permanent fixture and its original intent and rate is ignored.

  • silentcal2012

    http://www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

    “Our next president must repeal Obamacare and replace it with market-based reforms that empower states and individuals and reduce health care costs. States and private markets, not the federal government, hold the key to improving our health care system.”

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    So instead of having a (in your words) “Gestapo” called the IRS, we’ll have a new (to borrow your words) Sales Tax “Gestapo.”

    No thank you. I think I’d prefer NOT to have a Canada-style national sales tax that’s a creeping drain on the economy.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    All but the state-controlled market in Massachusetts, that is. What socialist governor ruined that there? Oh wait…

  • silentcal2012

    Calling Romney a socialist just makes his opponents look like desperate zealots. This is why his is winning the middle.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    So you admit a conservative has no reason to back him?

    You do know this is a conservative Republican site, right?

  • silentcal2012

    Or is Jim DeMint a socialist now too:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGeVUj_yges

  • luvnthebigsites

    But I’m not gonna hold my breath.

    ;)

  • freentn

    Cain is the fourth best debater at best.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    hope he says it more in debates

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    A lot of us were fooled back then. He hadn’t been vetted yet.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    ..

  • silentcal2012

    Doesnt make any sense. DeMint explicitly said RomneyCare was a model for the whole nation. It passed when GOP Congress and POTUS passed medicare part D. It was heralded by Heritage Foundation.

    People got mad about ObamaCare and project that debate ten years back in the most liberal state in the country. It passed 198-2. Every singel Republican in the state senate voted for it. The MA business community supported it. The Dems were pushing state run health care and single payer types of systems.

    There’s a bunch of blogs about immigration being a TX issue, but the hypocrisy is outstanding. People in MA wanted universal health care. They still support the plan. It always polled well. There was no tricks. It wasn forced down anyone’s throat. It was going to happen whether it was Romney’s plan or Deval’s plan.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Since experience doesn’t really seem to matter anymore.

  • aesthete

    Neither is Heritage Foundation. Both got a lot of flack from conservatives for their advocacy of RomneyCare. There is only one person running for President who is intimately connected with, and who vigorously supported, RomneyCare: that would be the man for whom the plan is named. It really is irrelevant who supported what in MA; the fact of the matter is that RomneyCare has been a failure at controlling costs and providing better quality care than existed in MA prior to this date. It is equally irrelevant that some Perry supporters are employing a double standard: what is important is that Romney, rather than fight the tide, was one of the first and most enthusiastic Republicans to talk about state-sponsored health insurance.

  • silentcal2012

    And its not 2002.

    All of this has been poured over since 2007. Nothing is new. Romney will still be leading in the polls.

    Most people care about the direction of the country. They care about the future, their future. They want to know what someone will do.

    Only punitive petty people are fixated on ten year old state specific plans. Its a minor footnote.

    Most American voters dont care about Mass Health. Only angry, obsessed posters on conservative blogs

  • aesthete

    Good to know.

    Also, knowing what someone will do to “their future” requires evaluating past behavior to establish some sort of trend.

  • izoneguy

    With Perry re: hpv shots & in-state tuition?
    Hpv shots never given & students that are
    one percent of Texas students? While Romneycare
    gets hundreds of millions of our tax dollars
    to support.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    yes! ‘mom52, you nail it

  • rightwingmom52

    Kinda felt like I had to make up for losing my homework the other day. LOL.

    Congrats on your SC winning streak!

  • harpsichord

    may as well have been endowed by the creator to all taxes.

    The “taxes” specifically mentioned in the Constitution (duties, imposts, excises, capitation) all share a certain simple and transparent quality.

    The “prebate” is a troubling aspect of the FAIR TAX to be sure. It is a genuflection to progressivity. That being said, when compared to the income tax, the prebate would be little league.

  • freentn

    The Debates don’t seem to count for much with voters in the Scientific Polls. Perry is still way ahead of Cain who is stuck in single digits tied for 4th place.

    From abcnews.go.com:

    Rick Perry Still on Top

    Rick Perry delivered a shaky debate performance last week and unexpectedly lost the Florida GOP Straw Poll, but the first poll conducted after his rocky weekend shows the Texas governor still leads the Republican field.

    In a CNN/ORC International Poll conducted between Friday and Sunday, Perry came out on top, with 28 percent of Republicans and independents saying they support the Texas governor. Perry was followed by Mitt Romney at 21 percent. Newt Gingrich rose to third in the poll, garnering 10 percent while Ron Paul, Herman Cain and Sarah Palin each received 7 percent. Rounding out the bottom of the pack were Michele Bachmann at 4 percent, Rick Santorum at 3 percent and Jon Huntsman at 1 percent.

    Without Palin in the mix, Perry?s stock rose slightly, taking in 30 percent of support while Romney received 22 percent and Gingrich received 11 percent

  • MOlsen6

    I like the guy. I like his bio as well, but is he really prepared to be POTUS? Before this election cycle started, I sat myself down and prepared some ground rules. 1. Must have been a Governor, and 2. must have been re-elected. Being a CEO of a company is nothing like running a government, particularly the media skills. I feel that being a governor is about as good a preparation for being POTUS as is reasonable. Senate or House Rep? I don’t know, the history of Senate candidates running for (or becoming) POTUS is not exaclty distingished as illustrated by the current clown. Secondly, the person must have done well enough in the position to be re-elected to their governorship. Eating your own cooking is darn important in politics, and if you can’t do it, you are likely a “one trick pony”.

    By these rules, Rick Perry, Mitt Romney, and Jon Huntsman are the only qualified candidates. No Sarah Palin, No Chris Christie, No Paul Ryan, No Newt Gingrich, No Herman Cain, No Michelle Bachmann. But I kind of like Herman Cain. I’d like to vote for him … but I just can’t quite bring myself to agree that he is qualified, but I do like him and a number of his ideas. I like the “9-9-9″ plan. Cain does NOT strike me as good VP-type … I think that position is reserved for Marco Rubio, and I am comfortable with that … and I can live (although not be over enthusiastic) with a Romney/Rubio ticket. But I’m keeping my options open for now …

  • ammy

    I’m also an Atlantan and met Herman Cain at a Rally for Romney in ’07. I wanted him to win the Senate seat that Chambliss is now wishywashying in. He is a great guy and very charismatic and if he’s the nominee he’s got my vote. HOWEVER, I don’t think he’s ready for the general and think the media will Palin him. It used to be Bork but now it’s Palin and they continue to sink to new lows. Whoever we nominate should expect to be seriously banged up by the media. I think Romney is the most attractive and potent candidate against Obama. And O has to GO.

  • ammy

    There are a lot of elements of the bill that Romney didn’t want but the VERY liberal legislature did. And yes the composition of the state matters. If Arizona wants and needs to pass an immigration law they should be able to. If Mass wants a healthcare law they should be able to have that. That is the beauty of the system. Romney didn’t run for re-election because he was deemed too conservative and pro life. That works for me. I want a good President not a good candidate. I don’t care if Perry was once a Democrat- which he was. People change and grow and you need to look at their entire record. Romney’s record in a very blue state has to be considered in that light, just as Perry has governed a very red state. Let’s be fair and come to the smartest conclusions.

  • ammy

    What part of liberal state that wanted the healthcare system doesn’t compute? Romney governed a very blue state, Perry a very red one. That matters.
    Next question – do you want to win in ’12?

  • ammy

    I think a conservative has every reason to back Romney. That is a conservative that wants to win the WH. Or you could go the Nevada route and bask in the glory of an idealogical loss with Sharron Angle. You really think the Dems are going to play fair. We need the smartest candidate that we can get – and based on performance so far and previous record – that is Romney by a mile.

  • ammy

    I love Cain, but love Romney more. As a matter of fact, I met Cain at a Romney rally in ’07, along with Santorum. But I’m solidly supporting Romney – because I don’t need or want excitement in a candidate. I want decency, honesty, competency and a strong belief in the greatness of America. I see all of those in Romney. You are not going to find a candidate whose positions you completely agree with, And consider this, the only slam against Romney is that he is a flip flopper – he moved to the right – that’s not a bad thing for me. No charges of crony capitalism or allegations of multiple acts of dishonestly (like Huckabee)
    not a whiff of scandal of any kind. The media has labeled him and people are buying it. He’s plastic – well he is good looking. He’s rich – yeah he understands financial principles. He’s a flipflopper – yeah he has moved decisively to the right and stayed there for a long time. I love Santorum, Cain and like Gingrich – actually I could vote for anyone on that stage last week. But I truly believe if we are going to beat Obama we need someone who has the chops, experience and brains of Romney.

  • dajeeps

    There is absolutely no way I would go for having both an income tax and a sales tax at the same time. While in the plan it is intended to be a transition period, I can’t help but be very cynical that it would stick and both would be raised often and as high as to crush us with both.

    There doesn’t need to be a transition period so long as implementation preparation starts well ahead of time and everyone knows what they need to be doing. Leaving us open to the possibilities of abuse by a government that careens out of control and politicians that make careers out of abusing us is just irresponsible and possibly ignorant of the nature of the beast. We don’t want more new ways for the government to fund its tyranny – we want the tyranny to vanish. I don’t want a POTUS who is going to try to manage the mess. The mess is the problem. Things aren’t going to get better until it’s gone, and making new taxes will only contribute to it in the long run.

    Sorry, but unless or until he drops the 9-9-9 and starts singing the the enumerated powers song, I’ll have to look elsewhere.

  • nam72

    The leftist are running scared if Herman gets the nod. It would disarm them on the race card beatdown. The message he gives is in direct opposition to them and they know they cant stand the light being shown on them. Besides, isn’t he supposed to stay on the plantation?

  • nam72

    Go back and watch the debate again .It was painfully clear why Herman won.The only one up there not a politician with common sense. He was the grown-up in the room. Watch his speach after the poll. Presidential to say the least.It will hit you like a flash

  • nam72

    And what is Cain’s issue? The most squeaky clean person on stage. . Listen to him. You’ll be convinced after watching his after debate speech. Very presidential..Do you think he hasn’t a chance? Dont believe it !
    My wife runs a conv.store. More and more,black people coming in her store are saying : What have we done putting this man in office? They are disallusioned with the facts coming out and no work. They’re saying NO MORE !
    With Cain ,they’re race card cant be played and the truth and honesty will comeout to be seen by all. People are looking for leadership, not by a community organiser but by somebody that’s actually done it.Real life experiences that BO has none of. The contrast will be obvious. Besides, he dont have to hide from his record as BO has none.

  • nam72

    Cain said the 999 plan was a step towards the FairTax. The people cant wrap it’s head around the FairTax all at once. Wouldnt it be neat to have a real leader gor a change?

  • Craigpennsylvania

    There are many positive aspects to the 9-9-9 that make it a credible alternative to either a flat tax or the Fair Tax. For the record, 9-9-9, Fair Tax OR flat tax are all three FAR superior to the mess we have today. A thinking conservative would support any of the three.

    There is nothing about the 9-9-9 tax that would make it any easier to raise rates than currently exists in our current system, a flat tax or the Fair Tax.

    An essential component for any of these three tax reform platforms is to put into the legislation requiring a super majority to change the rates.

    Without that component, any of the “Big Three” proposals would easily be demagogued in the future in this manner:

    “We need a second rate on the National Sales Tax. Only the wealthy can afford cars over $60,000 and houses over $400,000. Therefore, the imbedded rates on cars and houses over those respective thresholds needs to be raised to 40 percent over the current 23 percent”.

    “The wealthy need to pay more than 20 percent under the Flat Tax. We need a surcharge on incomes over $250,000. It will appear on a separate line on the tax return. It can look like this.

    A. Write Gross Income Here: _________
    B Subtract $250,000.
    C. Put the difference Here: _________
    D Take C x 10% and put it here __________

    This is your surcharge”.

    It is quite likely that 9-9-9 would be a HARDER system with which a future congress could play. The reason is this congress would have to pick one of the three legs of the triangle, and any increase to any one leg would be quite large, in relative terms.

    The reasons 9-9-9 appeal are it combines MOST of the features of both the Flat Tax and Fair Tax.

    1. It’s simple to understand
    2. It will make business more competitive
    3. It will generate revenue from the underground economy from 2 elements of the program – the National Sales Tax component and the Corporate Tax.
    4. It will lower the cost of exports, which will aid manufacturers and make US products more competitive.
    5. It will attract companies to build stuff in the USA.
    6. It rewards investment.

  • nam72

    Go back and watch his last speech. This man is more Presidential than any one on stage. The grown up. We have to shoot for the best man .If we dont ,we’ll be electing the same ole thing as usual.Cain has the right temperment.Cain knows how to make things work. Just look at his resume. 2 masters is nothing to sneeze at.Has had a job unlike BO.He want have to HIDE his background. We know Cain is an American..

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    no text

  • Craigpennsylvania

    NightTwister – It was close to a 3 year period in which I did not post on RedState. One of the reasons for this is the common practice here of people making absolute statements.

    You would NEVER support giving the government another way to tax you. While you don’t say so, one must assume you are talking about the 9 % National Sales Tax Mr. Cain has in his 9-9-9 plan, as a corporate tax and income tax already are in place.

    Let us explore “NEVER”.

    Should the left get its wishes, the following would happen:

    1. The top tax rate would be 39.6%
    2. The income cap on Social Security would be eliminated for those making over $250,000 (or possibly $200,000) per year. With Medicare, small business owners would see an effective top tax rate of about 54.9% at the federal level alone, in addition to state and local taxes.
    3. The top corporate rate would remain at 35%.
    4. Capital Gains and Dividends would be taxed at anywhere from 20 percent to 39.6 percent.

    That is plan “A”.

    Plan “B” is, for the purpose of this exercise, The Cain proposal (I am still in foavor of ANY of the three proposals: Flat Tax, Fair Tax, OR 9-9-9).
    1. A 9% flat income tax.
    2. A 9 % corporate tax.
    3. A 9 % national sales tax.
    4. A required super majority to change this tax structure.

    By the definition of “NEVER”, you would by default have to support plan “A”.

    This is not directed at NightTwister, but at conservatives in general. Conservatives have a tendency to demans purity. If a person does not match 100% of what WE think is needed, we “look elsewhere”.

    In the mean time, can ANYONE say that the Flat Tax, Fair Tax, or 9-9-9 plans are inferior, to a conservative, in contrast to taking the current system and seeing it with the same structure, but higher rates?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    many levels and that Clinton is also a liberal.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    running mate?

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Simply because 9-9-9 would eventually become 39-39-39.

    I’ll take my chances with what we have, thanks.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    I’ve always thought it was limited to the pizza stuff, but there is a lot more good stuff there including working at the Fed.

    He does need to get his ducks in a row on foreign policy so that he doesn’t get clobberred there.

    He needs to understand all of the major hot spots / tricky areas:

    China / Taiwan
    Pakistan / India
    Pakistan / Afghanistan / Iraq / Iran
    Israel / Palestinian issues
    etc.

  • http://www.redstate.com/thesophist TheSophist

    has nothing to do with any of what you mentioned. I agree 100% that he’s a decent, honest, competent man.

    My main issue with Romney is that he’s a classic elite technocrat. Has always been, and will always be. And my faith in the elite technocratic class is next to nil. Romney has so little personal experience with the “common folk” that it actually worries me. From a class/background standpoint, there isn’t much to differentiate Romney from Obama — both come from, hang out with, and are a product of the Elite Ruling Class.

    So the overall impression I get from Romney is the same one I get from Obama when they start talking policies: “I know better than you do how to protect you and give you a better life.” Now, Romney’s policies are infinitely superior to Obama’s policies, but I’m speaking of style, I’m speaking of inner beliefs about intellectual superiority, and I’m speaking of life experience.

    But he’s a good man. As good as they come in politics. He’s squeaky clean. He’s smart as hell. He’s competent. He’d be better than Obama or any conceivable Democrat in 2012.

    I just can’t get over the technocratic elite thing… being one myself… :)

  • http://www.redstate.com/thesophist TheSophist

    and I don’t mean just politicians, I mean literally any human being on the planet, who has adequate experience to deal with all of the complexities of foreign policy as a whole?

    Condoleeza Rice is about as expert as they come in foreign policy matters. But she was a Russia expert, who suddenly had to deal with major issues in the Middle East. Are the two regions the same? What help would Rice’s expertise in Soviet diplomacy be trying to sort out what to do about tribal politics in Afghanistan?

    My view is that the whole “foreign policy experience” deal is highly overblown. Even Reagan, who was absolutely solid when it came to the Cold War and the Soviet threat, was out of his depth when it came to Latin America. It’s just the facts of this complex world of ours.

    So the best that anyone can do — no matter what his/her personal experience in foreign policy — is to assemble as good a team as possible, with all sorts of experts in their particular areas of expertise, and go from there.

    Oh, and have a strong solid core of beliefs about what is in America’s best interests.

  • acat

    I don’t have any faith in technocratic elitists, but .. the problem with Romney isn’t that he’s a technocrat, it’s that he quite reliably jumps the wrong way.

    I know the Kjellander debacle is just one wart out of many, but .. it’s a good exemplar. The whole chain looks like this:

    Kjellander was a known crooked Illinois republican.
    Crooked republicans (and democrats) were being investigated by the Feds.
    The lead investigator was Fitzgerald, who was up for renewal.
    The investigation was popular with most Illinois citizens.
    The investigation was especially popular with the Illinois GOP, who wanted their party purged of the crooks.
    Romney wouldn’t commit to keeping Fitzgerald.

    This is a no-brainer. Someone on Romney’s campaign staff should have vetted Kjellander. Someone on Romney’s campaign staff should have been aware of Fitzgerald.

    This is, again, just one wart, but it’s one that – to this cat – marks Romney clearly – as you put it – as out of touch with the grass roots of the party, and the citizens of our country whose votes he wants.

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Nobody has a clue what sort of team Cain would assemble. With a governor you can look at the types of people he surrounds himself with and project that out. Obama was a blank slate, but we knew he’d choose academics, and they’d fail miserably. But with Cain, you’ll just have to take his word for it. Good luck with that.

  • comeridethewhale

    Herman Cain doesn’t have a snowball’s chance of winning the nomination. A few months ago Trump was leading in some polls for crying out loud.. Elections are still won with troops on the ground and once you get past small states like Iowa and New Hampshire the party infrastructure will become much more important. The only folks with enough cash and payback equity to run credible campaigns in places like NY, California and Illinois are Romney and Perry.

  • comeridethewhale

    I didn’t think Romney was ever reeelcted or am I wrong about that?

  • comeridethewhale

    I forgot about Christie but he could certainly compete with the big boys if he chooses to run.

  • http://www.redstate.com/thesophist TheSophist

    that for me personally, the next big test for Cain is to see what advisors he would assemble. I figure that he figures it’s a wee bit too early to be thinking of his National Security Team when he’s still polling in single digits.

    But yes, I’m 100% with you that I need to see what kinds of people Cain looks to for advice, especially on foreign policy matters.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Sorry, that’s just not good enough for me. Not when there are good and more qualified candidates out there. Those are the ones I’m interested in right now.