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The “Bain” of Obama and other anti-Romneys: Mitt wins SC

Mitt’s free market capitalism brand is the best bet to drink at an Obama re-election denial tea party

The depths of Great Depression II and the historic 2010 tea partier conservative-driven Republican Party mid-term landslide encouraged dreams of a Reagan-like 2012 GOP nominee to retire President Barack Obama to a resumption of his autobiographical writing career.

The crashing sounds of Bachmann’s looseness with the facts, Cain’s knowledge gaps and Perry’s non-creative vulture mis-sighting-destruction awoke this South Carolina gamecock from Utopian REM eye-battings to the reality of imperfect choices absent Gippers and Silent Cals.

We so wanted one of the most historically reliable conservatives to be the 2012 standard bearer for our Party of Lincoln. But we learn anew that voters can’t rehabilitate those with character lapses or lacking the campaign skills required in the second decade of the 21st Century. We can’t blame voters in Iowa, New Hampshire nor the Palmetto State for weighing electability based on actual campaign performance, much less 11th hour anti-capitalist attacks against companies that make offers to buy other companies that are accepted by those other companies.

We are proud of our fellow social conservative from the Keystone State for vigorously defending the heart of conservatism, i.e. the free market capitalism of Mitt Romney, even if he is the lone remaining obstacle to a Rick Santorum as GOP presidential nominee. We would be proud to support him or Jon Huntsman in the Fall. Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich lost us with their leftist attacks on BainCapital.

But when we factor in all of the issues and electability, George Will’s minimization of the urgency of the latter notwithstanding, we must now endorse the former governor of the Bay State and believe that the primary voters of our native Palmetto State will once again choose the GOP nominee when a plurality of them vote for Mitt Romney in 11 days.

Do I think Rick Santorum could defeat Barack Obama? I do. The smug President of Food Stamp Nation that voted for all the policies that led to this recession and who focused on stimulus pay-offs to state government union dues paying workers, oil drilling moratoriums, Keystone Pipeline job delays and fundamentally changing America via ObamaCare, would have a hard time garnering more electoral votes than even a warm bucket of non-Ron Paul-flavored spit.

But Mitt Romney is the better choice between those left standing on the issues, campaign skills and electability.

President Obama must be removed from office. His removal alone will spark a major economic recovery by bringing investor capital off of the sidelines where fear of what Obama could do next, and the certainty of what he won’t do, now rules.

Obamacare must be repealed and it won’t be if Obama is re-elected. The beltway George Wills counsel that we have “survived” equally bad presidencies and that no “apocalypse” will result from an Obama “stymied” by a GOP-majority House and Senate.

Mere survival and stymieing? Avoiding apocalypse? Is that the standard for a GOP “win”, even if that were the only goal? We can’t reverse any of the decades-long big government creep that Will bemoans with mere stymieing.

Mitt Romney will unleash the American economy, defend the nation from evil enemies and be a social conservative advocate. Yes, I believe his pro-life epiphany was sincere.

Mitt Romney believes in America. His goals are not George Will minimalism “informed” by a fantasy of a Congress-led 19th Century America. Since Washington, America is best governed, first and foremost, when we choose at least one man with courage that can make a majority. Mitt can be that man.

In the wake of Romney’s Granite State win, we hear:

And this President wakes up every morning, looks out across America and is proud to announce, “It could be worse.”

It could be worse? Is that what it means to be an American? It could be worse?

Of course not.

What defines us as Americans is our unwavering conviction that we know it must be better.

That conviction guides our campaign.  It has rallied millions of Americans in every corner of this country to our cause.

Over the last six months, I’ve listened to anxious voices in town meetings and visited with students and soldiers.  In break rooms and living rooms, I’ve heard stories of families getting by on less, of carefully planned retirements now replaced by jobs at minimum wage.  But even now, amidst the worst economy since the Great Depression, I’ve rarely heard a refrain of hopelessness.

Americans know that our future is brighter and better than these troubled times.  We still believe in the hope, the promise, and the dream of America.  We still believe in that shining city on a hill.

We know that the future of this country is better than 8 or 9% unemployment.

It is better than $15 trillion in debt.

It is better than the misguided policies and broken promises of the last three years – and the failed leadership of one man.

The President has run out of ideas.  Now, he’s running out of excuses.  And tonight, we are asking the good people of South Carolina to join the citizens of New Hampshire and make 2012 the year he runs out of time.

President Obama wants to put free enterprise on trial. In the last few days, we have seen some desperate Republicans join forces with him. This is such a mistake for our Party and for our nation.  This country already has a leader who divides us with the bitter politics of envy. We must offer an alternative vision.  I stand ready to lead us down a different path, where we are lifted up by our desire to succeed, not dragged down by a resentment of success. In these difficult times, we cannot abandon the core values that define us as unique — We are One Nation, Under God.

Mitt Romney has the Reagan vision and will make us proud as the next President of the United States.

Mike DeVine

Atlanta Law & Politics columnist –  Examiner.com

Editor - Hillbilly Politics

Co-Founder and Editor - Political Daily

“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

More DeVine Gamecock rooster crowings at Modern ConservativeUnified Patriots,  and Conservative Outlooks. All Charlotte Observer and Atlanta Journal-Constitution op-eds archived at Townhall.com.

COMMENTS

  • spainishirish

    Today nudged me, though, and the highly improbable hope that Huntsman will take off holds me back a bit. But I’m close. The Bain meltdowns unmasked a few inner-Huckabees I long suspected. Odd how it was the reputed Big Government conservative who was the lone defense of capitalism, wasn’t it?

    Sharp piece, GC.

  • JSobieski

    to “keep the good parts” will make it hard for get rid of anything.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    for their failures in this campaign as they showed themselves NOT to be true tea partier conservatives. It is not the voters fault or my fault for facing the reality of a hard choice between non-Reagans and just how much better a first Romney term would be than a second Obama one…and that its time to get on with that battle.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Romney 2012 or bust!

  • forperry

    Want to change my userid to forabo (for anybody but Obama). How do I accomplish that? Governor Perry’s comments regarding Bain was the final straw for me. I guess once a Democrat —- always a Democrat, huh ?

  • JSobieski

    I will vote for R and support Romney if he is that man.

    I will NOT have any confidence in his presidency. I say that having defended one of the least predictable presidential candidates in recent history (Newt).

  • marktx

    ….was it sincere ?

    The problem with Mitt Romney is that his record as governor doesn’t suggest that he really believes in what he said tonight. How else can one explain Romneycare…which is anything but capitalistic ? Forcing individuals to purchase a product or pay a fine, goes against the core of economic freedom and individual liberty.

    Perhaps Romney will put all his past record in the trash bin and become the conservative champion in defense of capitalism. If he pulls it off next November, it will be the most important political victory in our lifetimes.

  • Ender

    in 2008, when he was the conservative alternative to McCain :) And proudly support him now as a Capitalist, Conservative, and a man who can win again Obama.

  • pj2012

    “I guess once a Democrat ?- always a Democrat, huh ?” because if you knew Perry you’d know that statement about Perry is false.

  • tonotisto

    His words, not mine.

    I think it is wrong for you to call him a liar./

  • onenationundrgod

    The problem, no digging in no real support….maybe not even any real understanding. If you heard Perry on Hannity tonight Perry explained what the SC voters were telling him about the two businesses that Bain took over and how they did not try to build up but to tear down for a profit… This is unemployment we are talking about right?
    Perry did say some of the companies Bain took over were indeed successful….But he pointed out the difference. And said Mitt needed to answer for that and to not paper it over.
    Is it ok to spend millions in Iowa to smear Newt, but it’s not ok for someone else to do the same to Romney?
    So I for one have to trust Perry?s decision to take this road, I still support him fully. I like the fact he was standing for the people in SC who think this was a problem. Is it bad he was listening to the people for who he is asking to represent?
    How can anyone throw in the towel and concede to the candidate who is not the right one for our party or our president? I’ll not settle!!
    This is why our party is going down the drain; it is up to us we the people to change this road we are on. Like I said in another post what will be the language about the tea party in the future after all the beliefs and ideals were tossed aside for the candidate for whom no one really believes in, a settle for, Mr. electable as the media tells us?pfft!

  • onenationundrgod

    The problem, no digging in no real support….maybe not even any real understanding. If you heard Perry on Hannity tonight Perry explained what the SC voters were telling him about the two businesses that Bain took over and how they did not try to build up but to tear down for a profit… This is unemployment we are talking about right?
    Perry did say some of the companies Bain took over were indeed successful….But he pointed out the difference. And said Mitt needed to answer for that and to not paper it over.
    Is it ok to spend millions in Iowa to smear Newt, but it’s not ok for someone else to do the same to Romney?
    So I for one have to trust Perry?s decision to take this road, I still support him fully. I like the fact he was standing for the people in SC who think this was a problem. Is it bad he was listening to the people for who he is asking to represent?
    How can anyone throw in the towel and concede to the candidate who is not the right one for our party or our president? I’ll not settle!!
    This is why our party is going down the drain; it is up to us we the people to change this road we are on. Like I said in another post what will be the language about the tea party in the future after all the beliefs and ideals were tossed aside for the candidate for whom no one really believes in, a settle for, Mr. electable as the media tells us?pfft!

  • onenationundrgod

    nt

  • 6eorge Jetson

    I’m almost there, also. ((sigh))

    I’ve found myself defending the Good Mitt over the past month. Why did you go there, Newt? I was on the Newt bandwagon one month ago. Why did you do that thing I forgot about Rick Perry? Oops!

    Rick Santorum, who would have government favor factories over other industries with the corporate tax code?

    As far as electability, I’m of the opinion that to garner the Republican nomination, Romney must show himself able to win Republican primaries.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    was there, and was restructuring companies to be competitive, or now in the aftermath of housing subsidies and propping up the subsequent losers?

  • lineholder

    ,

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    We have concrete choices now: Mitt or Santorum.. Its a close call between two that were not in my top three when this process began. But we can’t rehabilitate poor campaigners and losers.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    of the day looking through the rose-colored glasses without consequence since my hope will not affect my economic decisions. Feels right! smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    smile

  • bk

    I mean, what could endear him to conservatives there more than making an appearance this week with James “Race is the only issue” Clyburn? *snicker*

  • JSobieski

    Thye irony is that the Bain capital attacks on Romney by Newt and Perry id more to help his campaign with conservatives than anything Romney ever did.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I too supported Mitt before and after Fred in 2007-8 and was never as down on him as others this time, although at one point he was my 6th choice! But Mitt has great qualities and character in my opinion, as pols go. He is a problem solver and his patriotism inspires me as well. I think he would be a great President by many standards.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and not those that buy those companies. The burden of proof is on the sellers since it is against economic common sense to believe they intentionally sold their employees down the river when they needn’t have done so.

    And if Perry wants to be understood, he needs to work longer hours at drafting his statements. But if you can find a link to a Perry explanation that you think outweighs the vulture comment, then please post it in reply to this.

  • david1313

    I on the other hand if Mr. Romney gets nominated have two choices on the site:

    Get Banned or
    Stop Posting.

    For a brief second last night I even considered Mr. Paul. It scared me so much I took a sleeping pill to sleep last night. IT is all better this morning. I can wait four more years for a conservative candidate.

  • JSobieski

    Or tried to mobilize public interest in some way to get a better deal.

    People need to go to work in the morning with the thought of making their enterprise worth more intact than it is as a bunch of pieces.

  • david1313

    circling the drain. Maybe we can get a stopper in South Carolina. I don’t think it is Rick Perry. But if it is a will celebrate big time.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I think SC voters will prove those wrong that think class warfare will win the day for Newt or Perry and that Santorum’s pro-union votes will not put him over the top in a state that endured 3+ years without Boeing jobs thanks to the NLRB war on behalf of non-right to work states.

    South Carolina would be happy to have a Bain save some failing companies and understand that by the time a Bain restructures a company it was already failing!

  • jakeofalltrades

    Attacking Romney’s record of job creation at Bain is fair game because Romney raised it himself. He has legal training and should have known that he opened the door to this line of attack.

    And for everyone acting like Perry and Newt are anti-Capitalist now: go mortgage your houses and buy a clue – it’s priceless.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    intee

  • jakeofalltrades

    NT

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    from my realistic choices. I like Mitt better than Santorum, hence…

  • izoneguy

    A Closer Look At Mitt Romney’s Job Creation Record

    Bain managers said their mission was clear. “I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation,” said Marc B. Walpow, a former managing partner at Bain who worked closely with Romney for nine years before forming his own firm. “The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors.”

    Leveraged buyouts allow investors to purchase businesses with the acquisition funded sometimes by significant amounts of debt. To critics, these leveraged deals can make acquired companies more vulnerable to economic downturns, leading to a greater likelihood of bankruptcy and job cuts. At the same time, the deals sometimes introduce discipline to firms and even whole industries that need it.

    Either way, Bain investors typically profited.

    That was true in the case of GS Industries, the 10th-biggest Bain investment in the Romney years. Bain formed GSI in the early 1990s by spending $24 million to acquire and merge steel companies with plants in Missouri, South Carolina and other states.

    Company managers cut jobs and benefits almost immediately. Meanwhile, Bain and other investors received management fees from GSI and a $65-million dividend in the first years after the acquisition, according to interviews with company employees.

    In 1999, as economic challenges mounted, GSI sought a federal loan guarantee intended to help steel companies compete internationally. The loan deal was approved, but in 2001, before it could be used, the company went bankrupt, two years after Romney left Bain.

    More than 700 workers were fired, losing not only their jobs but health insurance, severance and a chunk of their pension benefits. GSI retirees also lost their health insurance and other benefits. Bain partners received about $50 million on their initial investment, a 100% gain.

    “It makes me sick,” said Steve Morrow, a retired GSI steelworker, recalling what happened to his fellow workers after the Kansas City shutdown. Some top managers received bonuses from Bain, he said. “But the salaried and hourly people ended up with the shaft.”

    Union officials say they tried to work with GSI management and Bain to assure workers and retirees that they would have some benefits even if the heavily indebted company went under. But they said their appeals fell on deaf ears during and after the time Romney was running the firm.

    “Bain was demanding certain financial performance with no understanding of what the problems were on the ground,” said David Foster, a former steelworkers union official who negotiated labor contracts with GSI management from 1994 until the bankruptcy. He said Bain “bled the company,” withdrawing cash for dividends and management fees even as circumstances in the steel industry deteriorated.

    “If I were looking for effective management of a project, a company or a country, this is exactly the kind of management I would not want to have,” Foster said of Bain. “Bain partners think the profits they made are a sign of their brilliance. It’s not brilliance. It’s lurking around the corner and mugging somebody.”

    “We didn’t take things apart and cut them off and sell them off,” Romney said in a GOP debate this fall. “We, instead, helped start businesses…. Sometimes we acquired businesses and tried to turn them around, typically effectively. And that created tens of thousands of new jobs.”

    But in 2007, during his first run for the presidency, he said he regretted extracting payments from companies that were failing: “It is one thing that if I had a chance to go back I would be more sensitive to,” he told the New York Times.

    “When I listen to Mitt Romney these days, he talks about creating jobs. My experience at Dade during those Bain Capital years was that it was strictly an investment, not to create jobs,” said Michael Rumbin, a vice president of technology management at Dade during the Bain years whose position was eliminated in 2000.

    “No one came from Bain and said, ‘How can we hire more people?’ ” Rumbin said. “It was, ‘How do we turn our investment around and make a lot of money?’ Which they did.”

  • jakeofalltrades

    Got it. You convinced me.

  • JSobieski

    I do believe that we face a choice between an opportunity society and an entitlement society. We can either try to live with defined benefit expectations in a defined contribution world, or we can face the reality that we live in a defined contribution world and live accordingly.

    For months I have been reading hear about how Perry is Reagan-esque. Well the past week showed us the truth.

    Reagan would not have said what Perry (or Newt) did. Reagan would have explained how the system of freedom in which Bain operated would ultimately helps all of us, because we all have the ability to make our own choices.

    If you believe that the public cannot face the truth, I don’t see why you bother with politics or bother with being conservative. Masochism is not conservative, and it would seem that masochism is all that you are left with.

    In the end, I think this was all for the better. It will make the Romney pill a bit easier to swallow.

    I do think it is interesting how people that would not vote for Paul Ryan for president because of TARP or Mitch Daniels for a proposed “truce” continue to enthusiastically support candidates who did a 180 on the function of free markets and the public good that results from private profit seeking.

    Mitch Daniels comment on social issues was not nearly as bad as the equivalent Newt/Perry statements on Bain.

    Ryan’s vote on TARP was not nearly as anti-free markets as the Newt/Perry statements on Bain.

    Free markets is just another way of saying freedom.

    Nobody gets rich by destroying assets that other people think are valuable.

  • jakeofalltrades

    why layoffs are good for the economy. They helped him!

  • lineholder

    to put on those rose-colored glasses. They always distort the light of truth, and often prevent people from taking action when they have the opportunity to do so.

    All of the Bain information aside, I do not believe that Romney will not win against Obama. Pundits on the right and Conservatives in general can complain all they like about what is being perceived as attacks against capitalism, but the left will gladly and willingly use it, if it advances their cause. They will paint Romney as having Wall Street’s interest at heart, not Main Street’s.

    And he won’t have a leg to stand on pertaining to repealing O-care either, because he’s praised the same type of socialized health care system in Massachusetts too many times. The Dems will turn his praise for Romneycare against him, saying “If it was good enough for the people of Massachusetts, it should be good enough for all Americans”, minimizing the credibility of the state vs. federal argument.

    So what exactly will the man run on??? Any ideas?

  • jakeofalltrades

    I don’t think a primary fight split 5 ways is the time to be educating the public. Elections are for choosing leaders. And attacking Bain’s job-creation record is legit because that IS Romney’s job-creation record. We need to establish how many jobs he had a hand in creating before we can compare to the other candidates.

    All I see is a concerted effort to shield Romney’s job record from criticism.

    There is plenty of time to argue capitalism when speaking to the public on policy issues related to pending legislation after the election.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I can socialize an industry and GC’s will fight for me, but heaven forbid I say a word about any company’s business practices.

  • JSobieski

    on the need for entitlement reform, tax reform, spending cuts, and the importance and value of free markets.

    What you don’t campaign on now you can’t govern on later.

    Your logic is precisely why entitlement reform ALWAYS fails.

    Why did W’s attempt to reform SS fail so miserably in 2005? Because it wasn’t even a blip on the campaign trail.

    I can’t believe that I am in any way being confused with a Romney supporter (I’m not) or defending Romney (I’m not).

    It we adopt a “profits at the expense of jobs” in an R primary, Obama will shove it down our throats in the general election.

  • JSobieski

    That is how you attack Romney’s job record.

    Point out that his plan for the economy is so tepid in terms of tax reform.

  • Spartan4Life

    How none of these candidates and their myriad of paid political hacks seem to get how the average conservative voter like me thinks? Did they really believe that attacking Capitalism like some OWS slappy was going to win me over? I wonder if they ever considered going out and talking to some actual conservatives in stead of pretending they knew what the heck they were doing.

    I supported Perry. Gave him money. Kept waiting fo him to get better. Then, he goes back to Texas to retool his campaign and comes back with a losing argument.

    They should all just stop now.

  • renny

    Now, we have to get on to annihilating the o, who is going to run the most vicious and illegal campaign the US has ever seen.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    The best argument in SC is to point to 10 closed textile plants and make the point that if Bain had been involved, 2 would still be open.

    It disgusts me for these lifetime politicians to go after Bain. It smacks at the heart of conservatism and is one of the main reasons I left the Dem Party. And now to hear it in desperation, especially from Perry is quite depressing. Newt, I knew could say anything.

  • lineholder

    How many people genuinely understand the differences between state managed capitalism and free-market capitalism? I did not until a few months ago. I think people may have a sense of it, so to speak, and associate it with socialism in a rather vague sort of way, but that’s about it. Education on this point might be helpful as well.

    Learning about this topic has helped me to be able to look at the context of decisions that have been made and recognize “Gov’t intervention and state managed capitalism may have generated X number of jobs, but providing incentives for free-market activities instead could have generated greater than X number of jobs (and going with the latter option usually means less regulatory measures, which preserves more of our freedoms, while limiting the potential for entitlements, keeps taxes lower, etc.)

    Just a thought.

  • Spartan4Life

    Hmmmm…..wonder if our friends in organized labor had much to do with this company’s demise?

    Where the Union label goes, “Going Out of Business” signs sure to follow. It has been happening in the private sector for 50 years and we liked it so much we have introduced it to the Public Sector, too. How long before ILL, CAL, RI, CONN all out of business, too?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and point out how Bain could have saved 2 of them. That is what they did, salvage a percentage of already failing companies. Moreover, Newt and Perry don’t know the facts, but that doesn’t stop them from vulture sightings.

  • jakeofalltrades

    But on balance, I don’t see why doing so is worse than socializing healthcare.

  • sunshinek67

    taking Government taxpayer funded bail out money.

  • JSobieski

    you never have an apples to apples comparison. You do A and get outcome B or do C and get outcome D. You can’t do both A and B, so you don’t get to compare B and D.

    That is why liberals sometimes conclude that digging ditches and filling them up again or massive government spending (WWII) is a good idea. They don’t think about what would have happened “but for” their crazy schemes.

    This is a project for Aesthete

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Romney, Santorum and Obama. I think Santorum’s big government conservatism and other issues along with campaign skills etc is just a bit worse than Mitt’s. Both are of course light years better than Obama. I was for Bachmann, Cain, Perry and even Newt before yesterday. They failed, not me. I get to make a choice between who is left and to pretend that Perry or Newt are still realistic choices after the votes in Iowa and NH, their place in the polls, and most of all their failed campaigning and class envy digressions this week is to be delusional.

    The choice is Romney or Santorum now and Rick’s negatives are worse by a bit imho that Mitt’s romneycare and other baggage.

    No one gets a “pass”, but we simply haven’t a better viable candidate after Newt and Perry went all far left yesterday.

  • jakeofalltrades

    It’s kinda ambiguous. If your position is based on viability, then why not just say that, instead of saying you flipped on principle? Because flipping to Romney on free-market grounds is kinda ludicrous. Santorum less so, but he has viability issues as well.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    he will repeal ObamaCare. Perry and Newt are doubling down on the left wing and disingenuous attacks against Bain, NOW, not 6 years ago.

  • JSobieski

    People are associating making profits as unethical. The proposition that the first priority of investors should be creating jobs instead of profits is contrary to the free market system. It is redistribution by another name.

    Unless Bain lied to its clients or did its job poorly, it should not be a black mark against Bain to be profitable.

    Finance can be an ugly business. So can insurance, garbage/waste management, funeral homes, etc. The fact that such businesses are profitable should NOT be a black mark against them unless there is something specifically unethical about their practices.

    Do I think most large law firms, large accounting firms, and virtually all management consulting firms are overpriced boondoggles? Yes I do. I would never hire them. That doesn’t mean they are unethical when the y make a profit.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Everyone else will, though.

  • Tbone

    I have run my own companies since 1976, made profits and created 100s of jobs. I am as socially and fiscally conservative.

    I think Bain is a bunch of greedy bastard crooks gaming the system to wring, not profits, but loot out of their deals. Buying a gun for $100 and holding up a 7/11 for $500 is not “turning a profit”.

    So Sparky, if you can’t convince an Adam Smith capitalist like me that Romney and his gang at Bain aren’t job killing crooks, you got no chance with people who already think their boss is overpaid and who lost their manufacturing jobs to Mexico or China.

    Obama and the MSM are going to rip Mitt a new one on this so just get ready for 4 more years of Obama.

  • jakeofalltrades

    It doesn’t matter how principled you are if you can’t take power.

  • lineholder

    a socialized health care system is effective, which is exactly what he professes every time he defends the health care system he helped to implement in Massachusetts, why would he repeal it?

    I think what he originally said back in the Dec. 2010, that he would “eliminate the bad and keep the good” is actually closer to where Romney truly stands and that he has shifted to the right during the primary season for the sake of political expediency (which has been known to do many times).

    As for attacks against capitalism….capitalism per se isn’t perfect, any more than socialism is. It is dependent on the application of the principles and character of the individuals involved. Either of the two or both can be applied in ways that are unscrupulous and dishonest.

    Even within the realm of capitalistic activities, to what extent you or I or anyone else may question a candidate within the context of trying to determine if they acted in a way that displays strengths of character such as integrity…should we prevent that from being considered?

  • JSobieski

    and Bain didn’t “hold anyone up”.

    If you want to take the principled position . .. until it hurts your guy approach, by all means do so. I continue to support my guy, but will call him out when it is deserved (and Perry’s vulture capitalism comments should be called out).

    If we don’t attempt to educate the publc as to merits of free market economics, we won’t ever achieve our objectives.

    You sound like the advice Dick Morris constantly gives to Paul Ryan—you are a great gutsy politician, you could be President if you just ditch that Medicare reform plan of yours.

    I don’t support Romney for the R nomination. I agree that Romney will lose. I am simply attacking a specific criticism about his Bain years. Perry’s strategy is not a winning one in a Republican primary. If TBone was a typical R primary voter, Perry would be doing far better right now than he is, and Fred Thompson would be running for the 2nd term.

    I voted for Fred, but I still criticized him on campaign finance reform. I will vote for Perry, but I will call him out for unproductive attacks. I voted for Forbes twice, but that doesn’t mean I was blind to the “rich man” attacks made on him.

  • tyman

    Tbone’s comment about the robber at 7/11 is a kin to what someone said about the Mafia….they are NOT a capitalist enterprise.

    Just because someone does something for a profit does not mean that they are right. I’m as conservative as anyone, and I believe that businesses should survive or fail on their own merits.

    But when someone comes in and wrecks a company for the sake of breaking it up and selling it, then yes I have to question them and hold them accountable for that.

    I just keep asking myself why Bain Capital is donating more money to Obama than Romney.

  • Tbone

    LOL

    The public can’t be educated on what’s straight up. Quit wasting your time.

    I don’t blame people who are squishy moderates supporting Romney. He is their kind of guy. I do blame the other 60% who aren’t supporting Perry. They are idiots, fools and ignorant twits.

  • JSobieski

    You may both be right, but if that is the case—anything done here at RedState is a waste of time.

  • Ann_W

    Bain got involved with two steel companies at around the same time. The union shop failed the non-union steel company (Steel Dynamics) was successfully turned around and is thriving today. Many, many US union steel companies failed during this time period. The unions forced inefficiencies that made the companies not be able to react when the market changed around the steel companies.

  • aesthete

    Someone educating a largely ignorant populace on basic economics, or someone supporting a flawed candidate who’s barely registering in the polls?

    Seems to me like JSob is engaged in the more productive enterprise out of the two of you.

  • texastaxpayer

    Was unemployement higher when Mitt was ripping the people of South Carolina off or now with Obama doing it???? hmmm…. guess your right… Obama wins… You convinced me…. Mittens 2012 because Obama is worse…. wow what an inspiring slogan huh?

  • texastaxpayer

    Pointing out that Mittens took tens of millions of dollars out of companies for himself and his partners which bankrupted the companies leaving their work force in the ditch dependant on tax payer subisdized unemployment, food stamps and medicaid is class warefare now? Wow…. think you are stretching it here a bit. Lest we forget Romney has made his time at Bain the center piece of his campaign, he cant after all run on his governoring record. So candidates shouldnt be allowed to question that record? Candidates shouldnt be allowed to point out what is at least in most peoples eyes less than honorable practices? Its fair for Romney to attack Perry on immigration, Social Security and manufacture attacks on his jobs record. But god forbid Mittens be asked to explain how he and his partners made millions from companies that went bankrupt providing those millions to them? Yeah thats the very definiation of class warefare… Really get a clue….

  • Tbone

    you are using a random text generator to write your stuff. It is hard to tell.

  • JSobieski

    arguing with TBone because we actually spend time addressing his points.

    Much more efficient to just copy and paste the next insult from the pre-existing list of insults.

    Argue with a fool for long, and the two will become indistinguishable

  • Tbone

    nt

  • aesthete

    For that matter, I feel like I’ve wasted my time with most of my responses over the past day(s). Probably should have read my Kindle at work, instead of wading into these nonsense threads…

  • jakeofalltrades

    Those two ancient foes who cannot survive without the other.

  • lineholder

    I know that it may seem like an exercise in futility, but you do contribute in a positive manner to the content of conversation that goes on. Just this morning I mentioned to JSobieski that it might be helpful to draw more attention to the differences between state managed capitalism and free-market capitalism, and how much it had been of help to me to learn about this subject during the past few months.

    JSobieski said that this would be a project for you, and I think he’s probably right about that. I know that until a few months ago, I didn’t really differentiate between the types of capitalism, aesthete, so it was difficult to discern to what extent government intervention disrupts economic activity. I had some sense of it, but without understanding the details of it, I wasn’t entirely aware of the what, why or how of it.

    Anyway, you do contribute more than you think you do, and I just want to say thank you.

  • acat

    day-trading.

    Arguing with Tbone just amuses him, and short of an actual fact error, there’s very little leverage available. (note – irony) He’s a greased pig.

    That said, he’s good at finding truffles, and he has a point here.

    The Bain model consists of increasing efficiency at companies in markets that are getting tighter, and that comes at a human cost. It’s *not* comparable to building a new company or pioneering a new market.

    Romney’s decision to compare what Bain did to the TARP/GM bailout is, to me, quite telling … neither are good examples of small business growth, and it’s historically been that same small business growth that creates most of the jobs and wealth in our society.

    Day trading. Think about it.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    One thing (and maybe the only thing) Ted Kennedy was good at was articulating broad principles in public and moving directionally in private towards those goals.

    It is a viable political model.

    The model of not articulating clear principles in public and then demanding broad directional change in private will never happen.

    Republicans seem to be favoring small ball on both ends—at least in 2012.

  • jakeofalltrades

    There are other ways of being pragmatic as well. I like yours better, but I think one lesson from Job is that timing also matters.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I have weighed all the baggage of all the remaining candidates and find Mitt’s weighs less, slightly. I can’t whistle past the graveyard and pretend that Perry and Newt didn’t go all leftist on Bain YESTERDAY!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Mitt’s chances against Obama? Not sure what you think.

  • jakeofalltrades

    And I’m entitled to lose any value I long placed in your opinion.

  • JSobieski

    was Romney’s comparison/defense to Obama and GM.

    This is the worst batch of Presidential candidates that I can remember. THis seems worse than 1996 (which at least had Steve Forbes) and worse than 2008 (which at least had Fred Thompson)

    I am awaiting a responsive salvo from Newt in which Newt approves of the Obama bailout and calls Romney a fraud.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    attack Bain with leftist lies that mischaracterizes the free market and why jobs are and were lost.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • jakeofalltrades

    Obama running to the right of Romney…

  • federalfarmer1

    There’s nobody left. Maybe ill be a paultardjust to show my dissatisfaction, assuming he stays under thirty percent or so.

  • acat

    Running to the right of Romney, that is.

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I was for 4 others before Romney. Perry and Newt went leftist yesterday. They all have baggage. I weighed all the factors and made a close choice among those that didn’t disqualify themselves yesterday with the anathema to conservatism attacks on Bain. Add that to Perry’s foot in mouth and Iowa millions for few votes problems and what choice do we have? Perry and Newt failed on their own. I’m just recognizing reality and choosing now, rather than waiting for the reality to mature in 11 days…smile.

    Let’s not pretend that I’m an apologist for Mitt when I ranked him 6th months ago on conservative reliability. Where do Perry and newt rank on the conservative reliability scale today after the Bain attack yesterday? Below Mitt, given his pledge to repeal ObamaCare. Have Perry and Newt pledged to repeal their attacks on Bain? No, they have doubled down for political reasons thinking that South Carolina will be swayed by anti-capitalist attacks.

    They disgust and insult me and my native state and they lost me.

    So now I choose between Santorum and Romney because they are the only viable ones left. The problem is our candidates, not me.

  • texastaxpayer

    Besides believing he should be president what has the man been committed to?

    As far as “leftist lies that mischaracterize free markets” go. Can you provide a link to a single “LIE” Perry has told? Can you?

    No? Then get a grip, your starting to sound like one of those leftwing nut jobs on MSNBC when anyone challenges Obama’s economic record.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Gawduh!

  • acat

    What is this, Survivor: GOP Primary ?

    I do not accept your conclusion.

    Mew

  • texastaxpayer

    We can vote paul and then go get good and drunk…. sound like a plan???

  • tjms

    would not appeal Obamacare? We all know that he changes his positions to achieve votes. If he wins he will say that the voters elected him so they agree with him. It will not be appealed under Romney. You can trust him all you want, not me as he has proven he doesn’t deserve that trust.

  • texastaxpayer

    :)

  • federalfarmer1

    Just thinking about this ballot.

  • acat

    Romney will shift gears and run on his Massachusetts record.

    More accurately, I don’t see how he can manage to run successfully on the Bain thing in the general, but I do think much of what Conservatives rail against in his Massachusetts record will matter *less* in the general.

    Unfortunately, I don’t see this as an easy path to victory, nor one likely to have conservative coattails in the House, Senate, or statehouses.

    I’m prepared. Are you?

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I don’t trust any of them! I chose Mitt today among those that remain viable, none of whom I trust.

  • acat

    to the families of the workers at the other 8….nor to the taxpayers in the State who end up paying slightly less in unemployment and welfare…

    If we want to talk biology, the niche Bain fits is the cheetah, experts at culling the herd but only producing pelts for poachers…

    I didn’t mistake Larry the Liqudator as a role model .. nor do I mistake Romney for a candidate who knows jack or squat about building something from nothing.

    If I believed Romney would approach government with the same slash-and-burn mentality he brought to companies facing increased competition and needing to increase efficiency, I’d be fine with it … but I just don’t see it.

    Mew

  • tjms

    that actions are stronger than words. And I will stick with the actions that I believe our dear country needs. No matter what kind of words they use against each other in the primary.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I am aware of that poor analogy defense of Bain today and as I recall Mitt was for the TARP funded bailouts of GM and Chrysler at the time. I know it all about all the candidates and all of their respective baggage from birth through 5 seconds ago. That Perry and Newt made a poor character-revealing, insulting to SC decision to trash Bain as vultures yesterday disqualifies them to me especially given all their other foibles.The illusion of a significantly more reliable conservative that is still viable to win the GOP nomination has been smashed. It is down to Santorum and Mitt. It was a close call.

    Should I still be all in for Perry as the most reliable conservative after his attacks on Bain? Impossible. The real Perry is not the imagined Perry any longer.

  • http://www.unifiedpatriots.com/ pilgrim

    .

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    Mike, thank you for your daring and original diary.

    I still support Rick Perry… I hope he wins S.C., I hope that there is surge, and that folks dump the idea of Newt being a conservative alternative to Romney…consolidation in the conservative wing of the party is most needed, it should have happened long before the Iowa caucus, it may be too late…

    Since there will likely not be any consolidation, I have to admit, it seems as though we may need to adapt to the idea of Romney’s nomination…

    Until the money runs out, no “anti-Romney” candidate will drop out… and conservatives are keeping hope alive.

    There’s no sense in attempting to go to brokered convention if the field doesn’t get winnowed to 2-3 candidates (Romney, Anti-Romney, and Ron Paul)…

    At any rate… the last few days have been an all time low for conservatives… some have become so disillusioned that they’ve resorted to populist leftist meme’s on Romney’s business background…

    I want conservatism to win, but we can’t if we ditch our guiding principles and embrace populism arguments to knock off an establishment candidate.

    Mitt Romney won the Governorship in Massachusetts primary because it was a gubernatorial election… He’s a master at pulling out the win with a plurality… In head to head matchups… he’s not so great… if ends up being the nominee, we’ll all be forced to accept certain realities, and embrace Mitt… and *IF* that’s the where this process ends, I’m prepared to go no-quarter on any conservative that says “I’ll hold my nose and vote, but I won’t support that squish”

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I can’t. Its just too fundamental a betrayal for me, especially considering his inability to catch on in Iowa despite spending millions. I wanted Bachmann, Cain, Perry and even Newt to be my tea partier conservative hero. They failed. Not me. So now the reality is that only Santorum and Mitt remain and my pride in SC, with whom I would be ashamed if they rewarded Perry or Newt after their cynical class envy and disingenuous anti-capitalist appeals yesterday and ongoing. They lost me and my brother I accept my conclusion! and I though cats could see well….

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that they buy and try to salvage. This like blaming the ER Doctor for his inability to cure an alcoholic’s cirrhosis of the liver. The whole premise of the attacks on Bain are inane. Its as if of course all jobs are permanent unless a corporate raider buys them?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    He can’t. We are down to choices among a few remaining flawed candidates that have shown an ability to get votes from actual voters. I wouldn’t want SC to reward Perry or Newt for their Bain attacks now.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    retraction for the next 7 years, I may support him in the 2020 Iowa Caucuses…smile

  • tjms

    because I live it every single day and can attest to the fact. And I see many many people moving to our state to enjoy the conservatism in our state. Gov. Perry says things people don’t like, but he does things people love.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    This race reminds me of a very poor little league team I once coached. No talent.

  • Common_Cents

    Just like Romney did.

    Let your pacs and surrogates go negative while candidate goes positive. That is the winning combo.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    my day…more later

  • texastaxpayer

    It is ok for Romney to attack Governor Perry on instate Tuition even though his healthcare law uses tax dollars to subsidize illegal aliens health insurance?
    Reponse from Gamecock…. crickets????
    It is ok for Romney to attack Governor Perry stating in ads that his jobs record created mostly low paying minimum wage jobs. The texas comptrollers office reveals that Texas Personal Income grew over 6% on average during this period making this a demonstrably false attack.
    Reponse from Gamecock…. crickets????
    It is ok for Romney to pass mandated health insurance…
    It is ok for Romney to advocate and pass as much of Cap and Trade as he can…
    It is ok for Romeny to support TARP…
    It is ok for Romoney to support Stimulas…
    It is ok for Romoney to support subsidies for ethenol….
    Gamecocks response…….. crickets???

    But if Governor Perry questions the ethics, not the legality, of Romneys business practices. Facts which are not in dispute by the way.
    Gamecocks response….”How can Governor Perry still be considered a reliable conservative after yesterday.”

    Is that about right? That some it up? Just want to see where you draw the line for “Reliable Conservative”.

  • jakeofalltrades

    He needs to get the sand out of his ****** – it appears to be itching something fierce.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    but I’m sure you were prepared for the hits you’ll surely take for this diary.

    I’m not quite ready to go all in for Romney and probably won’t be unless and until he’s the nominee. If that happens, you can bet I’ll be using your notes as talking points.

    And Roll Tide!

  • westcoastpatriette

    He did a fickle flip-flop once before and turned on Perry in an unreasonable manner (that one was over Perry confronting Romney in the debate re: Romney’s hypocrisy over hiring illegals while accusing Perry of being pro-illegals.) He could not be reasoned with then just like now.

    By next week, he will change his mind again. Just wait and see.

  • http://www.unifiedpatriots.com/ pilgrim

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71336.html

    SPARTANBURG, S.C. ? Newt Gingrich signaled Wednesday that he believes his criticism of Mitt Romney?s record at Bain Capital is a mistake ? and that he?s created an impression that he was echoing Democratic rhetoric.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71336.html#ixzz1jBWXCYbl

  • jakeofalltrades

    Most Perry supporters pride themselves on fortitude and perseverance; I guess GC is the exception.

  • acat

    First, while increasing the efficiency of a company by eliminating people is not in itself a negative, but claiming it’s “creating jobs” is insane – Shall we compare Obama and Romney’s “jobs saved or created” numbers?

    Second, it seems less of a problem, to this cat, for these attacks to be made than it would be for them to wait until the general. Where is the media on this? Where are the columns pointing out the inherent weakness in Romney’s work for Bain from professional journalists?

    Bain didn’t create jobs. Bain increased the efficiency of underperforming companies, made buckets of ducats, and passed the expense (in the form of unemployment insurance and welfare) along to the rest of the State.

    This is not nearly the same model used by small businesses who seek to create new markets or new niches in existing markets, it should be no surprise that it does not resonate with Main Street.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    Most X suppporters pride themselves on fortitude and perseverence.

    X = a large subset

  • jakeofalltrades

    because this process is running my emotions high, driving out the logical and deliberative parts of my brain.

  • JSobieski

    Anywhere near Tampa?

  • jakeofalltrades

    After Florida I lived almost a decade in California (for school) before moving to Charlotte 2 years ago as an economic refugee.

  • Tbone

    That is his stock in trade, don’t let it bother you.

  • gracie

    and that is just in the last month!

    GC, you have only recently pledged to Perry. You have liked him but not pledged to him. Therefore you were not committed.

    I have no faith whatsoever that Romney will repeal OCare…or ANYTHING else he has promised for that matter.

    The sad thing is I wish I could trust him! I look at that man with his family and think, what happened to his integrity?

  • acat

    The “n-word rock” attack on Perry or the DWI surprise on Bush were equally invalid, but equally effective.

    To bend your analogy, I’m not blaming the E.R. doctor for diagnosing cirrhosis. I’m blaming the patient for knowing darn well what’s wrong, but not disclosing it.

    Of course jobs aren’t permanent. Anyone who says different is a union rep. (or an #OWS organizer, same difference)

    The problem isn’t the jobs, the problem is that it’s invalid to compare a tree growing from an acorn with a termite converting a dead tree into compost. The former is the model of small business, the latter is the model of Bain. They’re both valid ecological niches, but they’re worlds apart in appeal.

    Don’t be surprised that Main Street folk can tell the difference, eh?

    Mew

  • Vegas_Rick

    As we all know there are different ways to aquire companies. Was Bain capital a benevolent partner with companies best interest in mind? Or, were they a corporate raider with ONLY their own profits in mind?

    Please see izoneguy’s post up thread.

  • bogeyman

    he made his “don’t have a heart” statement about in state tuition for illegals.. Until then I was seriously considering him.

  • Tbone

    No heart and no brain.

  • explodinghead

    I think he was trying to win votes in South Carolina, by addressing the people directly that were laid off as a consequence of Bain Capital. I do not think this line of populist attack was right, but I think he was addressing what was immediately urgent….getting votes, but missing the long-term implications of his actions.
    I also think that he was directing his comments, not to Conservatives, but to independents in SC too. Not a winning strategy in my book, but then I’m not a political consultant. What do I know?

  • Flagstaff

    Gingrich has helped to define Romney as the defender of free enterprise. To be sure, the former Massachusetts governor will have to follow through on his promise of offering a clear and unapologetic defense of free enterprise and economic liberty. But if he does so, that will be exactly the right counter to the social-democratic demagogy of the failed incumbent. Romney has now committed himself to a campaign with a powerful theme, just what was lacking in the desultory next-in-line campaigns of GOP losers Bob Dole and John McCain.

    It’s worth noting that Santorum, who still hopes to compete in South Carolina and beyond, demonstrated the integrity to refrain from joining Gingrich’s foul left-wing attacks on Romney. That is in contrast to Huntsman and Perry. One reason is that Santorum, unlike Romney’s other rivals, actually stands for something; his campaign has its own distinctive theme.

    I’m still not a fan of Santorum (included here only because it relates to your Santorum vs. Romney comment), but this is very interesting take on the recent attacks by Gingrich, et al. Truly a hope that what doesn’t kill Romney will make him stronger.

  • carolina

    they are both done,
    Its between Romney and Paul now.

  • WillWong

    is the single greatest obstacle to getting my vote…even greater than Newt’s so called transgression with Bain Capital!

  • conservativecurmudgeon

    Mitt Romney is NOT a conservative. He is, at best, a Nixonian/GHW Bush northeastern patrician moderate.

    As I say, he is perfectly decent human being, an exemplary American, a fantastic citizen and father. But, he manifestly is NOT a conservative, And, thus, the distinctions to be drawn between him and Obama will not be as stark as they ought to be.

    Answer me this: Do you REALLY envision a strong President Romney to denude the EPA of it’s out-of-control regulating powers, especially when Pinch Sulzberger starts calling him names in the New York Times? Do you REALLY think he will repeal Obamacare, or do you think he will tinker with it, and keep the “good parts”. Do you REALLY think he will stare down Obama in the the debates, when the questions over Romneycare rear their heads, and his only argument is that tyranny is acceptable at the state level because of federalism and the 10th Amendment?

    I don’t. And that’s why he’s a weak, troubling, non-persuasive candidate– probably the weakest we have.

    This morning, on the CBS Morning program that no one watches (thank goodness), Governor Romney negated his entire New Hampshire acceptance speech by comparing his corporate experiences with streamlining and creating profitability at Bain with President Obama’s actions at GM at Chrysler.

    This issue isn’t what Obama did vis-a-vis these auto companies, as a defacto CEO, it’s the fact that these companies were nationalized, the secured creditors bankrupted, and the American people were stuck with the bill, which will likely NEVER be paid. And thus, he exposed himself not only as a person that puts his faith in the strong-arm of the Government over the Invisible Hand of Adam Smith, but a man perfectly comfortable with the role that Obama authoritatively took unto himself. That, frankly, scares the bejeepers out of me.

    In this little interview, he reverted to type: An east-coast Fauntleroy, with no particular set of core values. We still have a choice in this election, and will have, even after South Carolina (one of my favorite states, by the way; My in-laws have a place up in Buefort). We ALL get to have a say in this. And I will manifestly NOT vote for Mr. Romney, unless and until he is nominated…

    And THEN I will be the most rabid Romney supporter you’ve ever seen.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    can win SC next week, let me know. I echo Rush today who expressed his disappointment in Perry, who I had planned to vote for on Super Tuesday in the unlikely event that he lasted that long in the race, before his cynical, disingenuous, class warfare attacks on Romney/Bain yesterday. I do not want him of Newt rewarded with victories in SC that would be seen as affirming their attacks that are fundamental and anathema to free market capitalism and economic liberty and that play into leftist economic lies.

    As a lawyer, we don’t pick juries. We “un-pick” them with strikes. I have struck them all but for Mitt, Santorum and Huntsman based on reliability, issues and performance. Perry showed that he is not significantly reliable yesterday.

    This column is about the inevitability of settling absent a Coolidge or Reagan, historically speaking. Perry and the other seeming reliable tea partier conservatives failed. Not me. I’m just one voter having to make a choice in reality that is a party man because I want to do the best we can and that requires getting Obama out of office. I still dream that one day the perfect conservative emerges….we wait…but meanwhile, we live in the real world and in that world of feet of clay, Mitts seem the least clay-like, by a smidgeon at this stage…

    God bless

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Mama didn’t raise no fool and I don’t get enamored of any candidate like a teenager anymore. They all disappoint and nothing I could write can change the failure that Perry has been as the supposed repository of my tea partier conservative dreams.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    on Super Tuesday. He lost me with the leftist attacks yesterday. Much as Cain lost me with his weakness on Iran and his intentional lazy issues ignorance. Still love 9-9-9!

  • JSobieski

    We should just be merciful and let people cope as they must. Different people metabolize disappointment differently.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that issue. But the heart of my conservative epiphany in 2000 after 20 years as an activist Democrat is the class warfare attacks on free enterprise. Add to that the timing of a Perry in desperation making a cynical appeal to the voters of my native state of SC based on the premise that they will fall for this crap, and I do not want the GOP nominee to be seen as succeeding with this leftist message. Perry failed me. I don’t fail him for not trying resurrect the dead.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    You should be proud! smile

  • Not For Perry Any Longer

    My main difference though is my belief that Perry will not stay in the race past January 21st – just 9 more days until he makes the speech he almost made after Iowa.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    as well.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    deficit…and is still married to the same woman to whom he pledged his troth. I count 6 pledges kept.

  • Not For Perry Any Longer

    N/T

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    reality

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    opps, my bad! smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Its so funny to be attacked as a supposed Romney stooge given my archive of previous criticisms of Mitt as my 6th choice weeks ago and my prior endorsements of Cain and Perry. Its as if Perry can just fail indefinitely and I’m supposed to ignore that until the convention?

    We can’t make Perry be a better candidate.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    my week!

  • Tbone

    :-)

  • lineholder

    Neither did I accuse of being an apologist for Mitt. I’m very much so a realist about the faults and shortcomings that our candidates have, every single one of them, as you are.

    What it comes down to as far as I’m concerned is that the cost of supporting our health care system is escalating rapidly. It’s increased from 16% of our GDP in 2009 when O-care was being considered to 18% of our GDP by the end of 2010. Under O-care, it’s expected to hit 25% of our GDP by the year 2015, and that’s a conservative estimate.

    We can’t afford it, Mike.

    If you can take Romney at his word, on face value, in spite of the many times that he has flip-flopped and simply gone where the winds of political expediency drive him, then more power to you.

    I don’t. He’s a self-proclaimed moderate who has displayed a repetitive tendency to simply go where the winds of political expediency blow him. So I just don’t see him as being dependable, reliable or consistent enough to be granted that level of trust.

    It sounds like we may have to agree to disagree where Romney is concerned, eh?

  • gracie

    I agree with you that the comments about Bain are ill conceived. But taken in total Perry is the more well rounded of the two. Is not Congress using Perry’s idea about wanting to/freezing Iranian bank assets?

    Just so surprised at your chosing Romney. He seems unelectable due to his similarities with Obama, his policies do not seem to be enough of a change to make a difference (cap gain cut only on middle class) and we just cannot trust him to get rid of Obamacare!

    I hope you are right and I am wrong about him.

  • conservativecurmudgeon

    ..if people vote for them.

    Ten days is an eternity in politics. Just ask Newt how his prospects looked ten days before Iowa…

    In all the high dudgeon over the Bain Capital kerfuffle, it is interesting the degree to which some will eviscerate Newt and Perry for engaging in “class warfare”, but they will give Romney a complete pass despite his entire world-view that is built on the concept.

    Take Romneycare: The only reason he instituted it was because he accepted the hard-left (that is, anti-capitalist) precept that it is the Government’s job to somehow spread the costs of healthcare “evenly”. That’s as Marxist as it gets. But, oh well. He was just accepting Massachusetts as it really was, say the pundits.

    So much for leadership.

    As I say, in the primaries, there is absolutely no reason to “settle”. For gosh sake, let others do that. If conservatives can’t stand up in the face of the pop-culture maelstrom of the realpolitik, why bother being a conservative? If all we get is mush anyway, why don’t we all just become Lowell Wieckers, and stop with all the meaningless rallies and websites and blather?

    I truly, truly hope you will reconsider your vote. There is just too much at stake to deliberately, affirmatively throw it away voting for mush. This election isn’t about Mitt Romney, or the Ricks, or Newt: It’s about US, the people. WE get to decide.

  • texastaxpayer

    Yet Romney has not a single conservative principle in his background. You seem a little unstable here. You attack Perry for stating an opinion about Romney’s business practices that you believe is not a conservative position. You are stretching it to say its class warfare and you know it. But let’s assume your right. Let’s assume Perry shouldn’t call purchasing companies in a leveraged buy out, running up millions in debt on those companies burrowing against their credit and equipment, siphoning those millions off in “management fees” and dumping the workforce on the backs of tax payers “vulture capitalism”. I happen to agree with him but so what its your world he shouldn’t do it. How does that make Romney any better of a candidate? Even if Perry is wrong in this one instance which again I don’t think he is, Romney is still light years behind him. I think either your blowing this way out of proportion or your a closet Rombot from the beginning.

  • texastaxpayer

    :o

  • bogeyman

    anti American squish

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Wishing we had Reagan DNA and better Boys from Brazil….

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    wicked ain’t I?

  • jakeofalltrades

    oi

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    What Perry and Newt say recently is more significant in context than total histories at this point. I have weighed all factors and being for a dead candidacy on principle loses any credibility when that candidate has a death rattle such as the vulture comment.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Not me, but only because I was running an errand.

  • paladin1

    choice to support Romney. In every election, the choice is between less than perfect candidates, so that is no revelation at all. To choose Romney over Perry and to claim that Perry lost you “with their leftist attacks on BainCapital” and to further state, “Mitt Romney is the better choice between those left standing on the issues, campaign skills and electability” is a leap you have to make over an incredible array of disastrously non-conservative Romney stances, some of which he has refuted, some not. A short list includes Romneycare, his poor support for the 2nd Amendment, his big government mindset and methods of running the People’s Republic of Massachusetts including taxes, his comparative defense of his free market venture with Bain to Obama’s government takeover of GM and Chrysler, and all his sudden reversals of “deeply held beliefs” from his 2008 “conservative conversion” experience in order to mollify the conservative base.

    You say, “Obamacare must be repealed and it won?t be if Obama is re-elected.” I say it will not be repealed by Romney as conservatives and the majority of Americans indicate they want it appealed; he will try to keep “the good parts” of this abomination and tweak or reconfigure the rest to suit the establishment Republican notion of what is acceptable. Surely you remember the establishment offers of compromise to this unconstitutional sewage and Romney is plainly of the establishment.

    And who can really believe this, “Mitt Romney will ….. be a social conservative advocate”? Mitt Romney has consistently, by his policies and governmental actions, spit in the face of pro-life conservatives with his government funded abortion in Romneycare, shown his contempt for gun owners with his support for the various flavors of gun control he has embraced, and by his support for the degrees of various gay/lesbian agenda items during his tenure as governor.

    While I agree with you that the Gingrich/Perry attack on Bain was unwise and promoted in the media too generally as a populist viewpoint, I do not think that, in the balance, anyone could rationally drop Governor Perry in favor of Romney based on this, especially given the cornucopia of “liberal to conservative “epiphanies” Romney seems to have incurred. Governor Perry has a longer and more consistently conservative record than Romney can even dream of and he has a record of accomplishments in legislative successes that Romney could not meet were he governor of Massachusetts for 20 years.

    I will remain with Governor Perry until this process is ended.

  • Don T.

    This a great, great diary. Mr. Devine mirrors my own painful journey to determine the realistic voting choices we are now presented with. These are tough decisions, in a tough election for the GOP, against a still formidable incumbent president. Mr. Devine walked through his reasoning quite well. Even the discussion comments, going back and forth on other candidates, pro and con, is a reflection of our conservative journey to painful truths. Well done.

  • jgge

    Do you really believe that Bain Capital is an asset not the ultimate destruction of Romney in the general elections? I said it many times before, Romney and his supporters are the most delusional people in America, totally detached from reality and living in an alternative universe. But hey, keep the delusions going on until Romney would be utterly crushed this November.

  • streetwise

    Mitt Romney is not my first choice for our nominee. He is not my second choice. But as things are trending, he is closing the sale with the GOP electorate and the others are not. That is the basic reality. This could change, as there are always surprises in politics, but it is not likely.

    I don’t need my preferred choice as nominee. I will GLADLY vote for and support Mitt Romney and help him pack for the White House. The overriding absolute priority of the GOP, and conservatives, is to fire the socialist who currently lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    Period.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    I meant absolutely no disrespect.

    Daring to stand up the anti-romney crowd at Redstate, and suggest, for all our discussions, Romney isn’t that bad. You’re no stooge… no way, not by any means. I empathize greatly regarding your views expressed in this diary, and that is precisely why I thanked you for it.

    The clumsiness of Rick Perry and his team… can not be ignored. It’s time to clean house, and clean up. If I don’t see some strategy improvement, then I must say… for some of the same reasons I dismissed Herman Cain early on, I will find myself likely sliding into the Romney camp. Much of it has everything to do with what I know Newt to be, and what I can’t trust in Rick Santorum, Jon Huntsman, or Ron Paul.

    My current diary should clear up my views in general.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    I would have rather seen that it never happened at all…

    But between this and what he said and then later retracted about Paul Ryan’s plan…

    It’s hard not to see Newt and flip flopper… and I really hate using that word at all… because most people don’t apply it properly.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    I would have rather seen that it never happened at all…

    But between this and what he said and then later retracted about Paul Ryan’s plan…

    It’s hard not to see Newt as a flip flopper… and I really hate using that word at all… because most people don’t apply it properly.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I feel totally respected…and tired. Timing is a bog part of why I did this now. Will explain in detail soon…

  • evilleramsfan

    that many of those screaming “foul” are confusing finance with free market capitalism….there is a difference…

  • tnguy

    ….intellectually bankrupt things I’ve ever read on Redstate. You can’t support Gingrich or Perry because of anti-Bain/Romney rhetoric,but then Romney, the furtherst left candidate remaining in the primary is the tea party candidate. The one with the “Reagan vision”.

    Right. Bar none the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read in a Red state diary.

    Romney won’t just lose, he’ll lose in a historic manner. Conservatives won’t stoop to vote for a northeastern liberal.

    But, thanks. Heads up like this are a reminder of whose diary I wish to read.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Conservatism is, by comparison, less important than reputation.

  • Scope

    from GC and wondering if there is any method to his madness, other than shilling for what looks like might just be the winner. Hey, it saves reputations as prognosticators when you look at the polls and then decide. They get to say, see I said he would be the winner, so my reputation is intact. Funny that the same guy was screaming and yelling and having hissy fits when the Republican leadership in the house wouldn’t shut down the government to promote less spending and “CONSERVATISM.”

  • jakeofalltrades

    GC may have found a true home with the Master of Flip-Floppery.

  • OCBill

    Pro-Choice, Pro-TARP, Pro-MediScare, Pro-IndividualMandate author of RomneyCare, Mitt Romney. The Conservative Choice endorsed by Bob Dole, John Sunnunu, and Jimmy Carter.

  • OCBill

    Pro-Choice, Pro-TARP, Pro-MediScare, Pro-IndividualMandate author of RomneyCare, Mitt Romney. The Conservative Choice endorsed by Bob Dole, John Sunnunu, and Jimmy Carter.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Romney supporters are truly the silliest excuses for conservatives I’ve ever seen.

  • markus7

    It’s not just Romney imposing RomneyCare on the populace with its individual mandate.

    It’s Romney raising business taxes by 20%, a $309 million dollar increase, in the state of Massachusetts.

    It’s Romney inventing 33 new fees for residents to pay, while increasing 57 others.

    It’s Massachusetts job creation under Romney’s policies ranking 47th in the nation.

    It’s Romney’s taxpayer-funded abortions which he signed into law with RomneyCare on 4-12-2006.

    It’s Romney’s stealth support for same-sex marriage and his being the first governor to install gay marriage, even issuing gay marriage licences before it was legal to do so, then calling opponents of his actions “right-wing.”

    It’s Romney’s promotion of the transgender lifestyle to public school children.

    It’s Romney appointing liberal activist judges to the bench at a rate of 75% including activists for abortion rights and same-sex marriage.

    It’s Romney increasing spending in Massachusetts by $5.2 billion dollars and expanding the public payroll by 3,000.

    It’s Romney expanding the government bureaucracy.

    Just say NO to Mitt Romney.

  • Ned Reck

    You will not remember me… but you steered me to Rush Limbaugh… long ago.

    This cancer created by Gingrich and Perry… has to be stopped… otherwise… I gotta go somewhere else… or take other actions. Gosh… what the hell happened…

    Even as I type… I am listeing to Newt.. create a false… LIBERAL primise… on Hannity… to conseal a self-distruct campaign… to further his own revenge.

    Dam… what a STUPID BASTARD. To me… he no longer belongs in a conservative party. Peery is no different… a self-before-country approach to campaigning…

    BOTH PEERY AND GINGRICH… do we want DUFAS POTOS? Huh?

    The true conservatives of this… so-called party of ours… can not turn a “blind eye” to this false… Obamanation.

    We… down here… live by the feud… and my folks are not gonna let me pass on challenging this message board….

    Gamecock.. you best do ALL you can… to stop this cancer sh#t from spreadin..

    Thanks for efforts thus far.

    ts

  • markus7

    Romney opposed Reagan and did not vote for him..

    Romney had utter contempt for Reagan during the Reagan years maintained his disgust a full 6 years after Reagan left office. He did not want to be associated with him..

    Romney is a pathological liar and the most unelectable candidate in the field!

  • pttx333

    b

  • Ned Reck

    I don’t know who you are… pttx333… but I my previous post is kinda plain spoken. However? I do respect whoever ya are.

    Before I go any further… I do not know how to clean up my previous post. Wished I did… I am extremely reticent ’bout it… but? can not undo it. It is a flaw in my basket of flaws.

    It?s just our method from down South?

    But if you are OK with the current status-quo-speak by Gingrich and Peery… I don’t have much to say. You ARE ACCEPTING A LOT MORE HARM from them? than a minor few choice words from a nobody like me.

    If you are a big-wig… and want to ban me… go ahead… make my day.

    Then… the moderates have won… and this should be called? PurpleState.com.

    I am sorry? do not know how to EDIT?

    Ned Reck

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    All the….made him …. look….like….Otis in…Andy….Griffith….

  • Ned Reck

    I made a self-righteous… and pompous a%# fell good.

    Nice to hear.

    Thanks… you made my day!

    Ned

  • pttx333

    strong supporter of Rick Perry, so you might want to talk to someone else cuz I ain’t the one you’re lookin’ for.

    You don’t appear to be from “the South” though.

  • gekster

    //

  • Ned Reck

    Member of the SCV… Columbia, TN… the home of the International Office of the Sons of Confederate Veterans? Sam Watkins Chapter… located at Elm Springs here in Columbia?

    Mister… I would look in the mirror if I were you. And repent for supporting Obama on anti-capitalism.

    Otis? Funny! You make me laugh… all of you Occupy’ers… make me laugh.

    Until you encroach on our freedoms.

    Ned

  • Ned Reck

    Glad I could make a liberal’s day! You comin’ from the southern democrat stronghold of Obama.

    Ned

  • redmymind

    Personally, I haven’t had such a hard laugh since Bagdad Bob. Just had dinner. Suppose it’s all good for digestion. I’m with you and our faithful crew: PERRY 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Greetings pttx333!

  • pttx333

    ,

  • pttx333

    louisianapatriette, a very nice person. Calling her “lousie anna patronizer” is not good. Do you hear me?

    Also, have you answered gekster yet? That might be advisable.

  • pttx333

    DROVES! Hope you have some pesticide handy … might also try Febreze to improve the odorous fumes here. LOL

    As a matter of fact, I’m a’fixin’ to go soak in a nice, warm bubble bath … makes a person feel human again! ;-)

  • gekster

    I think his wife ran off with his dog, and he misses his dog.
    Being from Tennessee and all.
    You know how hard it is to get a good hbird dog.

    Oh, and I saw your reply to me this morning and me and mine is doing fine.
    Been kinda busy, but that’s what I need.
    I hope your son is doing better.
    My prayers with him and you. :)

  • Ned Reck

    Can you read… or is that too much to ask? That question was not directed at me.

    And… no… your pip-squeekie voice is not loud enough for me to hear.

    hehehe

    Have a great day pttttttttttxxx33333333…. !

    Ned

  • pttx333

    something! I’ll bet he got into his Dad’s liquor cabinet or has a stash in his room.

    Oh, son is so-so. Got out of the hospital but still has major issues … he just has so many problems and has for a long time. Thanks for your prayers, dear one, they are sorely needed and much appreciated!

    Good to know you’ve been busy … busy is good for the soul.

    Mom

  • Ned Reck

    Are strong on this site… ain’tcha?

    Ned

  • Ned Reck

    Are strong on this site… ain’tcha?

    Ned

  • gekster

    to repeat for you, so tell me how Perry will keep the ‘status quo’.

  • pttx333

    Well, maybe in TN maybe 14 is old enough. ;-)

    Yeah, I know about good bird dogs. Used to have English Pointers … the sweetest dogs on the planet. The puppies were precious … before their eyes were fully open they would be pointing at blades of grass, ants, grasshoppers … that was the cutest thing in the world to watch them.

    Oh, no, just had a flash through my mind of Romney and his dog …. gonna go sit in a hot bubble bath and let the world go by before I blow a gasket! ;-)

    Mom

  • redmymind

    Yep, I sure sense the desperation and neurosis out there. I’m more of a Simple Green degreaser person myself, but Febreze sounds a lot better! Have a lovely soak!!!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    at this point, Huntsman is my #3. When this process started, my order of preference was: Bachmann, Cain, Perry, Newt, Santorum, Mitt, and Huntsman. Bachmann showed bad character in recklessness with the facts attacks. Cain was intentionally ignorant on the issues (except for 9-9-9 which I love to this day) and weak on Iran, Perry and Newt violated first principles 48 hrs ago and ongoing, Santorum was bad on the 10th amendment (but shows integrity and improvement now) and Huntsman was silly in debates (but his record has impressed me and his integrity). Mitt has been a good campaigner, I believe him on his pro-life conversion, promises to cut taxes and repeal ObamaCare, is strong on American exceptionalism and defense…I think he would be a good leader and would unleash the economy (as would most all of them). I could be wrong, but after 48 hours ago, I simply don;t see Perry or Newt or Santorum as significantly a more reliable conservative given what the importance of economic liberty and the digression to the language of the left by Newt and Mutt; as well as Newt and Santorum’s past digressions and eletoral failures. Is Perry really relevant at this point anyway? I don’t think so. Could Newt’s ads let Santorum win SC? Maybe. Florida? Never. In fact, I think Florida is the new main GOP state.

    more later

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Perry and Newt attacked the heart of conservatism 48 hours ago and today. next

  • pennsylvaniafarmer

    Good post. We excoriate Romney for his flip flops, but so many at Red State would give Perry and Gingrich a pass for their egregious flip flop on the entire free enterprise system. I don’t care how you parse the attacks on Bain, they are rooted in electoral desperation and are unbecoming Republican candidates. Where is Perry’s integrity now? As for Newt, nothing surprises.

    The only benefit is that like the Reverend Wright story last cycle, these sorts of attacks have a lifespan, and they will become less effective against Romney in the fall the more the public is exposed to them now.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    had made their case. Wish Newt weren’t two different people. Wish Huntsman had a pulse. Wish Santorum….well, it was a coin flip in the end on him and Mitt.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Do I have a love child?

  • Ned Reck

    Is that so hard? And are you so deaf?

    Ned

  • acat

    It’s from over in this other thread.

    Will Wong asks:

    Where were the Establishment Republicans
    when Newt was brutally assaulted with negative ads in Iowa, including one that said he earned $30,000 an hour from working with Freddie Mac and giving money to support abortion in China? Deafening silence??and they are all out in force and in unison shouting down any questioning of Bain Capital!!!!! Just sheer baloney!

    My take on it is that Romney is the one who started the scorched-earth tactics, and is now reaping what he has sown.

    I see no reason to defend him as he’s an extremely weak candidate on exactly the issues that we need a strong candidate on. If Romney tries to talk job creation, watch for victims of Bain layoffs to crop up all over the place. If Romney tries to talk healthcare, the Romneycare thing will bubble over. If Romney tries to talk about being good with animals, the dog-on-top-of-the-car story will resurface.

    I think the better question is where you were, when the N-head rock story broke, or the Tiffany’s shopping story surfaced.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    Freddie Mac on the basis that as a GSE, it is inherently tainted.

    If Bain had received government money during Romney’s tenure, I don’t think any R would be criticizing the critics.

    My issue on Bain is that the only arguments made by the candidates themselves so far is to connect layoffs to profits and imply a nefarious connection. If nefarious innuendo is all we need to label a business person a “vullture” then our side is in trouble.

    If there is evidence that Romney made bad business decisions, or that he was more interested in taking companies then growing them, that would be fair game.

    Destroying stuff is not generally speaking a great way to get rich. I know some people are citing the movie Pretty Woman, but really?

    Hollywood movies are made with an ingrained anti-business bias. The big money is made not by destroying but by taking an undervalued asset and improving it.

    My order of preference Perry, Newt, and Huntsman remains unchanged. However, I have even less emotional connection to any of these candidates than I had a week ago. Moreover, for the first time since this campaign began, I am concerned that a long campaign is not a good thing for us.

    If the primary season becomes focused primarily on Bain capital or Newt’s connections with a GSE, we are strengthening Obama not weakening him.

  • acat

    and I’ve made the point in many places that business is amoral.

    The problem I see this presenting is twofold.

    First, the Bain business model is sufficiently different from Main Street that there’s no natural resonance. Companies using the same model as Bain do prey on struggling Main Street businesses. It’s the kernel of truth inside the stereotype. Thus, Larry the Liquidator. (although, I do recommend the play .. DeVito was a good bit over the top)

    Second, because the Bain model did involve layoffs (and, in the case of Staples, a big-box chain supplanting small mom-and-pop stationers) it’ll be very hard for Romney to make the case about job creation. Not because Romney doesn’t know how – but because every time it comes up, we’ll get stories about people Bain laid off.

    The second is, ironically, the same reason Romney is weak on health care. Every time Romney says something about Obamacare, all Team Obama have to do is mention Romneycare, and it gets confusing for those not paying attention .. i.e. independents.

    Romney is a weak candidate, and while I do understand the objection to “attacks from the left”, I also understand that the general is going to be nothing but.

    I agree with your order of preference, and I assert that a long primary season that starts without a clear front-runner tends to produce a damaged candidate.

    As much as I dislike Romney, my largest disappointment with him is that, from 2008 until early 2011, the guy was nowhere to be seen, he was not making the case, building the rapport… and yet, he’s the guy. It absolutely infuriates me that the guy had the opportunity to learn from Reagan, who used the time from 1976 to 1980 to blast away at a weak POTUS and make the case to the point he had no real conservative challengers in 1980. That’s what Willard could have done .. and he wiffed it.

    Mew

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    Glad I made someone laugh! ;) This troll is bizarre to the extreme, don’t expect him to last long.

  • Risky

    I’m actually not a voter, I’m from the UK, but have taken a keen interest in US politics for the last few decades and I’m solidly of the belief that the USA is a generally a good thing for the rest of the world (possibly a view not always shared be the current president). Hence I think it is very important that the Republicans wins this time and get hold of the senate with a view to getting the place back on the right tract pronto.

    Now the problem is that in reality you have to pick a a candidate that’s actually running and preferably one that running for president, not just the nomination. Unfortunately a lot of good candidates ruled themselves out for various reasons. My pick would have been Mitch Daniels but if he had run no doubt he would have attacked for discussing tax reform as well as suggesting the economy was more important that social issues at this time.

    And perhaps there’s the problem. In looking for a candidate it becomes a matter of finding strikes against them on the basis of whether they crossed some rather arbitrary red lines rather than taking their ideas and views as a whole. We now have this site with stacks of front articles rubbishing Romney and hardly a word actually promoting any particular candidate as an alternative. May be your ideal candiate isn’t running, or his is and he’s doing it badly but campaigning on Not-Romney or Non-Santorum isn’t really a great way to build up towards this autumn.

    From my perspective this always worries me as in the UK we were out of power for 13 years after and one of the problems there was that we got more concerned about arguing about the EU than anything else and this seemed to put of the electorate despite the fact that the electorate as a whole broadly took the same view. Now there isn’t and exact parallel because the issues and the systems are different but I remember here four years ago people starting to talk about looking to 2012 as they didn’t like McCain and now they’re talking about looking to 2016 because they don’t like Romney.

    I don’t think you can afford to leave the democrats in power for another four years particularly when you bear in mind that infighting and a bad effort in the campaign may affect things down-ballot in the house and senate. Four more years of spend and muddle and you might well be looking to Wall St again as by then the relevant experience might be as a bond salesman.

  • Risky

    I’m actually not a voter, I’m from the UK, but have taken a keen interest in US politics for the last few decades and I’m solidly of the belief that the USA is a generally a good thing for the rest of the world (possibly a view not always shared be the current president). Hence I think it is very important that the Republicans wins this time and get hold of the senate with a view to getting the place back on the right tract pronto.

    Now the problem is that in reality you have to pick a a candidate that’s actually running and preferably one that running for president, not just the nomination. Unfortunately a lot of good candidates ruled themselves out for various reasons. My pick would have been Mitch Daniels but if he had run no doubt he would have attacked for discussing tax reform as well as suggesting the economy was more important that social issues at this time.

    And perhaps there’s the problem. In looking for a candidate it becomes a matter of finding strikes against them on the basis of whether they crossed some rather arbitrary red lines rather than taking their ideas and views as a whole. We now have this site with stacks of front articles rubbishing Romney and hardly a word actually promoting any particular candidate as an alternative. May be your ideal candiate isn’t running, or his is and he’s doing it badly but campaigning on Not-Romney or Non-Santorum isn’t really a great way to build up towards this autumn.

    From my perspective this always worries me as in the UK we were out of power for 13 years after and one of the problems there was that we got more concerned about arguing about the EU than anything else and this seemed to put of the electorate despite the fact that the electorate as a whole broadly took the same view. Now there isn’t and exact parallel because the issues and the systems are different but I remember here four years ago people starting to talk about looking to 2012 as they didn’t like McCain and now they’re talking about looking to 2016 because they don’t like Romney.

    I don’t think you can afford to leave the democrats in power for another four years particularly when you bear in mind that infighting and a bad effort in the campaign may affect things down-ballot in the house and senate. Four more years of spend and muddle and you might well be looking to Wall St again as by then the relevant experience might be as a bond salesman.

  • paco12348

    Why defend Romney? This is a food fight between him and Gingrich and Romney started it. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I don’t think it would have gone this far if Fox hadn’t gotten in on it and took up for Romney. They sure didn’t defend Gingrich when Romney was decimating him in Iowa, along with essentially saying, “suck it up”. Romney was Rove’s pick from the beginning and we, the people, are too ignorant to be allowed to vote without some big headed GOP telling us the only one that’s electable!
    Romney hid behind his PAC and that’s cowardly. What do we know about Romney? We know he flip flops. With the flips he’s running on now how believable is he? No one knows!
    At least we know what Newt’s baggage is and he’s spoken to it. He also is a proven mover and shaker in politics. He’s the only one speaking about the need to change the “law making” Judges and they are the second greatest danger to this country with the first being Obama.
    I liked Newt best when he was posititve but Romney ruined that and Fox seconded it by remaining silent.

  • paco12348

    Romney is getting what he deserves. He started the fight and ducked behind his PAC to try to keep his hands clean which wasn’t successful.
    I also liked Newt best when he was positive but Romney ruined that. In todays dirty politics, apparently if you want to run a successful campaign you must be a dirty under-handed liar. Run PAC ads that are lies and tell your victim to suck it up, then squeal like a pig when they retaliate. Of course, if you have Fox to run interference like they are doing for Romney (because he is so “electible”) you can still come out on top.
    I understand the significance of the “attack on free enterprise” this has degenerated into but that was not the primary intention. The intention was to look harder into Romney’s background and vet him in his business dealings.
    Obama would do it anyway so Romney might as well face the music now. Don’t worry Romney, I’m sure Fox and the GOP will fight it for you.

  • JSobieski

    Or for removing the prexisting conditions restrictions in Obamacare

    Or a litany of other conservative positions that can more or less be sumarized as market-based.

    I don’t doubt the troubling optics, but most of our ideas have troubling optics.

    Easier to be the party of the broken window fallacy than the party trying to explain why its a fallacy.

  • acat

    Cite: Contract with America.
    Cite: Tea Party

    We seem to be able to build a pretty good head of steam on financial issues .. what we lack is a way to convert it into anything but a short-term explosion.

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    were fed, state and local bureaucrats that cost tax payers.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    (I know, Perry can’t win) would be seen as an affirmation of those attacks whereas a Romney win is more amorphous given that his conservative transgressions were many years ago.

    I think that it is vital that the anti-Bain tactics not be rewarded now seen as being rewarded.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    That matters

  • drsheilahere

    Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:

    We have stuck together many years for the sake of the kids but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize I want a Divorce. I know we tolerated each other for decades for the sake of future generations but, sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course. Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all. So, let’s just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

    Here is a model Separation Agreement:

    –Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass, each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.

    –We don’t like redistributive taxes so you can keep them.

    –You are welcome to the liberal Judges and the ACLU.

    –Since you hate guns and war, we’ll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military.

    –We’ll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with wind, solar and biodiesel.

    –You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them.

    –We’ll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street.

    –You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies and illegal aliens.
    We’ll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEOs and rednecks.

    –We’ll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood.

    –You can “make nice” with Iran and Palestine and we’ll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us.

    –You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we’ll help provide them security.

    –We’ll keep our Judeo-Christian values.You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness and Shirley MacLaine. You can also have the U.N. but we will no longer be paying the bill.

    –We’ll keep the SUVs, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volt and Leaf you can find.

    –You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors.We’ll continue to believe healthcare is a luxury and not a right.

    –We’ll keep “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” and “The National Anthem”. I’m sure you’ll be happy to substitute “Imagine”, “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing”, “Kum Ba Ya” or “We Are the World”.

    –We’ll practice trickle-down economics and you can continue to give trickle up-poverty your best shot.

    –Since it often so offends you, we’ll keep our history, our name and our flag.

    Sincerely,
    John J. Wall
    Law Student and an American

    P.S. Also, please take Ted Turner, Alec Baldwin, Sean Penn, Martin & Charlie Sheen, Barbara Streisand & (Hanoi) Jane Fonda with you.

    P.P.S. You won’t have to press 1 for English when you call our country!

  • acat

    I don’t see the difference … just as I don’t think most voters will see the difference between “(lied about) jobs created or saved” or “{name}care reform plan”…

    I’m not arguing for hidebound consistency, no hobgoblins here, but .. I need *some* and Willard’s a {darn} weather vane in a hurricane.

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    knowtest

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I see no comparison

  • JSobieski

    I can’t. I have seen polls that say we have to “do something” to reduce the deficit and “save” medicare.

    Once you start saying anything reducing the rate of increase of payments, you get below the 50/50 line pretty fast.

    I remember hearing about a tea party poll on medicare cuts—even amongst tea party people those in favor of medidcare cuts were in the high fifties.

  • OregonConservative

    Could you provide a link please? Just because Romney was a “independent” during the Reagan/Bush years doesn’t mean he didn’t vote for Reagan. From what I’ve read, it is my understanding that Romney voted for Reagan both times and for Bush Sr. in the general elections. Please provide a link indicating otherwise.

    Also, it’s true that Romney didn’t seem to be as fond of Reagan’s economic policies back in 1994 as he is now. He’s admitted that his “life experience convinced [him] that Ronald Reagan was right.”

    What makes you think that Romney had “utter contempt” and “disgust” towards Reagan? Those are strong words that are not supported by Romney’s oft-cited 1994 quote. As I’ve said, Romney voted for Reagan both times and for Bush Sr. That doesn’t seem to indicate contempt or disgust.

    Question: Did Perry vote for Reagan?

  • texashistorian

    I take that to mean Romney not acting like a conservative when MA governor? The only reason they are years ago now is that he has spent since 2007 campaigning for President and trying to walk back all of his non-conservative positions. It’s hardly amorphuous- it goes to the very heart of Romney’s candidacy and why he is getting the attacks, even on the Bain issue.

  • acat

    or whether he’s just going to go on, ala Madonna, reinventing until he’s irrelevant.

    Mew

  • pttx333

    m

  • acat

    There’s no reason to believe we can continue on the current course, even though it may be popular.

    In short, I believe this is more about the limits of polling in a republic.

    Mew

  • markus7

    Leftist.

    Anti-Business (20% tax hike)
    Anti-Private Sector (invented 33 new fees, increased 57 others + mandates)
    Anti-Gun (signed gun control legislation)
    Anti-Bush Tax Cuts (opposed them)

    Pro-Gay Marriage
    Pro-Transgender
    Pro-Abortion
    Pro-Global Warming
    Pro-Evrionmental Regulations
    Pro-State Healthcare Mandate

    … and that’s just for starters.

    Post 9/11 is too close for comfort.

    His across the board flip flop at age 60 timed for his 2008 Republican primary run is overwhelming evidence the man is an actor and pathological liar.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    isn’t that one of the main underlying tenets of conservatism? MUCH more later…smile

    btw, this was my best economic wee in 3+ years…

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    I started out this primary season as a big Perry supporter, but his Forest Gump Strategy hasn’t really worked out.
    It’s time for us to make peace with the fact that Romney will be our guy. It’s time to turn off the screamers in talk radio who have demonized Romney so badly and created such a huge anti-Romney hysteria that some people are actually saying they would vote for One-bama if Romney is the nominee. Romney is the only candidate with the money and organization to take on One-bama, the MSM, the Unions, and the OWS crowd. It’s not about settling, it’s about survival.

    To the people who are sobbing into their hankies and saying they will vote for One-bama instead of Romney I say: it’s time to put your country before your hurt feelings.

    If you think we could survive 4 more years of One-bama then you haven’t been paying attention. Forget the obvious power grabs like SOPA or ObamaCare. Forget the the complete shredding of the Constitution like the “kinetic military action” in Libya with no Congressional approval or his recess appoints when Congress was NOT in recess. Forget the fact that the debt is on the cusp of 16 trillion dollars. Forget he fact that Union Thugs? can go into a private home and force parents to join the health care workers union even though they are simply taking care of a disabled daughter. It has already happened. But wait…it’s far more insidious than that.

    What the geniuses in the Political Entertainment Industry have overlooked is how One-bama and the Left have been able to shift power away from elected officials and into the hands of career bureaucrats most of whom are loyal Democrats and judges. This means that even if the GOP wins elections the Left holds onto power because now they are using government regulation and laws to get what they want. Net Neutrality, anyone? Dems have made themselves a significant part of the entrenched government monolith. This is the tyranny of un-elected power!!

    America as we know it will not survive 8 years of Barack of a Thousand Faces.

  • pttx333

    interesting to read the opinion of one who really doesn’t have a “dog in the hunt,” so to speak – particularly one from the UK, a very good ally of ours.

    If you will read further through RS, you will find that there are a lot of us who are staunch and unwavering Rick Perry supporters and will continue to be such to the very end.

    Our primary season is known as “the silly season” for good reason, and I’m certain that we must look like a bunch of loons to you. I think that myself and here I am in the thick of it! ;-)

    Thank you for the thoughtful input and welcome to RS. Don’t be a stranger!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    entea

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    I’ve been following your stuff since the early days when RedState had to have the quarterly fund raisers.

    People need to read your post and come to the realization that the real enemy is the the Left and One-bama. I have been linking to it on Twitter and other places. Keep up the good work and keep fighting for the American Idea.

  • spainishirish

    I pity the pour soul, and it likely will have to be an admin due to the predictable (and understandable) outrage, who has the write the necessary detente with the Ronulans piece. He better be as brave as GC was here.

  • ohiohistorian

    will be a Pyrrhic victory. We need to focus on winning the legislature first, and the Presidency second.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    commentary. Thx guy.

  • Risky

    Hopefully it will work out right in the Autumn but as for the “silly season it somehow reminded me of one of my favourite O’Rourke quotes:

    “Whatever it is that the government does, sensible Americans would prefer that the government does it to somebody else. This is the idea behind foreign policy.”

    Not quite the situation or the sentiment but vaguely relevant. I feel it helps to watch politics happening to someone else sometimes.

    Anyway it’s an unpredictable business. We had a “moderate” Conservative leader who ended up in coalition with the Liberal party(centre,centre-left) and we get to attempt some pretty serious spending cuts! Now sure there is a fair bit of tax in the mix too but the alternative would have been muddle, downgrade, sky high interest rates and general disaster.

    Then again there’s some pretty surreal potitics going on in Europe now but if the joke turns sour an there is a big default it’s not going to be great for my employment prospects.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and I am proud of Santorum for not piling on with anti-Bain “vulture” attacks.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Prager btw.

  • nocontest

    I’m new to Redstate and I’m very impressed by the dialoge as well as the ability to share ideas but photos like this remind us as to why we are not winning hearts. Why do we need to resort to this?

    From what I’ve read and seen this photo does not reflect Redstate.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    conservative policies since 2007. He could have maintained his moderate-liberal positions. He didn’t and that’s good especially in a party that punished Bush41 for betraying his no new taxes pledge.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I want to see One man with the courage to build a majority around tough specific cuts in entitlements. That’s what we need but none of our presidential candidates have done it this cycle…sad

  • nepanyrush

    He just appears clueless about how the free enterprise system works, as Rush so eloquently detailed. (See one of Rush’s archived talks from last week.) I think, as Rush notes, it may be a problem because Perry is used to getting the money from the taxpayer, not business. Although it could just be that Perry was willing to try the populist, OWS angle to re jump his campaign. The fact that many people, including an editorial in the Wall Street Journal, Rush, and others compared Perry to Michael Moore in his attacks could not have helped.

    Also, Perry really jumped the shark with his comments that Romney loves to give pink slips and the only reason he doesn’t fire someone is because he runs out of pink slips. Very mean-spirited personal attack that was not called for. I know that some Romney supporter told me months ago that Perry has a mean streak, but that comment, repeated a few times by him, was way beyond the pale.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    “Recess” appointment lacking the recess               ==> Banana Republic

    Person making the non-recess “recess appointment” ==> Barack Obama

    Satire is usually best left unexplained

  • Flagstaff

    did Newt simply overcome his own errors by playing the “media bias” card? If the latter, it probably can’t continue to work for a Presidential candidate.

    Agreeing that neither Mitt not Newt has performed as well as we’d like, does a Presidential campaign really amount to nothing more than performance art? No matter how our eventual winner performs, the MSM will spin his “performance” to his disadvantage. Perhaps that means that substance and content are what should always be stressed, on the theory that they are harder to distort than behavior and delivery.