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We are in the process of nominating literally the worst possible choice to go against Obama

By: garfieldjl (Diary)  |  March 29th, 2012 at 05:50 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I don’t like making diaries, and I’m not much of a writer, I’m just going to use public knowledge on this and provide an analysis.  People are free to agree or disagree with me, but I think we all need to stop an think here.  Ignore the delegate counts, ignore the polls, just stop and consider the candidates.

Mitt Romney — Former Governor of Massachusetts, is the man responsible for signing Romneycare into law in the state of Massachusetts (which is arguably the blueprint for Obamacare).  He’s also now associated with the children’s toy known as an “etch-a-sketch.”  He is the subject of jokes to the effect of a: “A liberal, a conservative, and a moderate walk into a bar, and the bartender says hello Mitt.”  He uses his experience with Bain Capital as a reason why he should be President.  Bain Capital has been called Vulture Capitalism (and make no mistake it’s for good reason).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtZJDBP45zE

That is one example, while I know that the people in the videos are biased, but fact of the matter is that there are probably a lot more stories like the link I posted above.  So while, I’m taking the linked video with a grain of salt, the man in the video sounds as though he’s being honest, and if the man is being truthful, then where there is one story of this nature, there is probably more.  If people think this will not show up ad nausem in the general they’re in denial.

 

Santorum has his own problems and Gingrich has his, but either one of them offer a much clearer choice when versing Obama than Romney does.

 

Btw, I could have found more of the videos that I posted above, however I’m out to warn people that Romney is a mistake, and he’d be easy for Obama to beat in the general, but I’m not trying to wreck him if he ends up being the nominee, so it’s a tough balancing act.

In other news, I was in a phone poll in Indiana.  I said I’m a Newt Supporter, if Santorum is the nominee in the general, I will vote for him over Obama.  If it was between Romney and Obama on the other hand, I told them I was undecided.  For governor, house, and senate; I’m voting Republican.

If Romney is the nominee, I hope I am wrong about him, that he’s now a Conservative, but I don’t think that is the case.  I tried to warn people in 08 (within my community) that Obama was bad news, and that people should vote for McCain.  The fact I can tell people I told them so, isn’t really much comfort when you feel like the country is being wrecked.  I don’t want to be in the same situation this time around where Obama gets 4 more years to wreck the country, or worse Romney wins and decides to continue Obama’s policies, appoints liberal justices to the Supreme Court, and costs us our credibility. 

So, folks in my opinion until Romney proves he isn’t just trying to sell us a bill of goods, that we continue to fight every step of the way to keep him  from being the nominee.  Being able to tell people that you told them so, isn’t much consulation when we have someone wrecking the country we all hold dear is the result. 

While I have issues with Santorum, I’m not going to go after him on this because I think Newt Gingrich supporters and Rick Santorum supporters need to have a temporary truce, because either of them are better candidates against Obama, and in my opinion either of them would be better than Romney as President.

COMMENTS

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  • rednation

    Many point to current polls and do not get how things actually work in generals.

    For one thing, Mitt has no personality against an incumbent who does, which is not a good sign to begin with.

    It’s sounds superficial, but sadly the middle and mods /indies/late deciders are superficial. They are some of the most malleable voters.

    History shows us that Alf Landon/Willkie style GOP candidates, with a touch of Dewey thrown in, are not general election winners.

    Mitt is one of the worst nominees we have had in some time if you look under the hood and kick the tires. Already the left is making devastating flip flop ads to John Kerryize Romney, such as this one:

    Etch a sketch Romney

    I’ve been in Republican politics for decades now and it never ceases to amaze me how rank and file voters keep making this mistake in our nominations, because we make it nearly every cycle in much the same way.

    1) Establishment pushes “whose turn it is” (guy who finished 2nd last time that is a moderate, it does not hold if he’s not. The elites hate conservatives, and do not want them. Even Reagan they took credit for after doing all they could to pin Bush or Ford on us.

    2) Media who wants easy victory along with the Establishment touts “electability” argument which is false and riddled with distortions and incorrect analysis of how the center votes, etc.

    3) Call that man (here Romney) the “front runner” from before the 1st debate, regardless of actual polling or not, etc.

    4) Establishment and big donors help Romney types with the money and endorsements, and early on through to the convention a claim of “inevitability” is touted.

    5) Splinter the field with divided conservative votes that last too long in the primary so the moderate, like Romney, wins out.

    6) Scare the rank and file practical Republican voters (and a few easy to manipulate base folks with arguments that a real conservative cannot win in November, so back Romney, etc.

    7) Gang up on the alternative to the moderate (Santorum) print almost nothing but distortions of his comments, and make all the news feeds daily print negative articles and hit pieces, etc.

    This last is done to several in the primaries. Any that pose any threat. The idea is to leave the moderate (Romney) alone until he has the nomination, then the press goes full tilt against him in the Fall. So, most of Romney’s stories are benign and about how he needs to be more personable, while Santorum wants a theocracy.

    Finally, it causes the party to coalesce out of fear and frustration, around the moderate anyway. And the result is a Mittens…

    • garfieldjl

      The longer this drags on, the more chance Romney will not be the nominee (assuming the Republican party wants to beat Obama). If he can’t get to the magic number, I don’t see Romney ending up being the nominee. If he can’t get the magic number despite spending the amount of money he has, a friendly media, etc. Then the party would be insane to make him the nominee.

      As it is right now, the electability argument in my opinion is a total farce, if he was as electable as the establishment has touted, why is this still being fought out?

      • morrigan

        Who exactly IS the “establishment”? Is Marco Rubio the establishment? Mike Lee from Utah? Christine O’Donnell? Because they have all endorsed Romney.

        My sense is that the hard core anti-Romney contingent are at war not with “the establishment”, but with 90% of the Republican party.

        • clintonformccain

          Dirty campaign smears against Barry? Be still my heart…

          • garfieldjl

            They are more likely to bring up how Romney smeared Gingrich, Santorum, and everyone else in the Republican Primary. That Romney is now trying to dishonestly smear Obama, blah, blah, blah.

            If Romney just resorted to those tactics against Obama, I would say fair is fair, but Romney used them on Newt, Santorum, and possibly Cain and Perry.

            I wouldn’t have cared if he gave Obama a taste of his own medicine. What I care about is his scorched earth, burn every bridge campaign style in the primary.

          • morrigan

            >”I think Newt Gingrich supporters and Rick Santorum supporters need to have a temporary truce, because either of them are better candidates against Obama”

            They are losing rather badly to a man you call a hopeless candidate and campaigner — Mitt Romney. That would seem to be pretty strong evidence that they would NOT be better general election candidates. By definition the best campaigner is the guy who manages to win the primary campaign.

          • garfieldjl

            Only reason why an “etch-a-sketch” in a business suit is winning is because it is throwing tens of millions of dollars around to smear Santorum and Gingrich so everyone is distracted from the fact that “etch-a-sketch” in a business suit is an “etch-a-sketch” in a business suit. Plus the Obama loving media is covering for the “etch-a-sketch” in a business suit, because they believe Obama will have no trouble winning against “etch-a-sketch” in the general when they call “etch-a-sketch” out on the dirty tricks and smears.

          • morrigan

            Unless you think that Obama will NOT have “tens of millions of dollars” to throw around to smear Santorum in the general, I don’t see the point of your answer.

            >”the Obama loving media is covering for the

          • garfieldjl

            Which would help counter Obama’s millions, Romney isn’t as likely to unite the base, particularly when there is a good possibility Obama may have the facts to back up what he’s saying about Romney.

            Romney is benefitting because our base is fractured.

            I’m not taking swipes at Santorum because he is much better in my view than Romney and I’m not wasting energy going after him.

            As far as a competition, is there one going on, if so how do I enter?

            In all seriousness, Obama is going to be hitting Romney with the same thing I will, along with Bain Capital, and other items.

            Yeah I know some on the left gleefully want to verse Santorum or Gingrich, well they thought the same thing about Reagan. I think Santorum has a good shot at beating Obama. I think Gingrich (with a united base), would clobber Obama so badly the Dems would still be reeling from it in 2016.

            Santorum and Gingrich both can attack Obama on Obamacare with impunity.

            Given Obama’s earmarks vses Santorum’s that’s a total wash.

            Really, I’ve actually thought of some ways Gingrich and Santorum can use their own baggage against Obama because it drags Obama’s baggage into the light for all to see.

            We all know how the dems would go after Santorum, but that would be harder to do as Santorum is starting to learn how to deflate those attacks.

            Newt is in good shape cause we already know all his baggage, and he is very good at coming up with witty remarks that stick in people’s heads.

            I could just see Newt actually say to Obama’s face that Obama is the food stamp President.

          • morrigan

            I’m not sure why you keep flogging a horse which died months ago.

            >”Romney is benefitting because our base is fractured”

            He’s not. But if you believe that, call on Gingrich to get out.

            >”Newt is in good shape”

            Hey, so am I! I have as much chance of winning the nomination as Newt does. Does the phrase “bitter ender” mean anything to you?

          • garfieldjl

            As long as Santorum and Gingrich don’t seriously go after each other, it could prevent Romney from being nominated.

            As far as Santorum being the nominee, I don’t think that’s likely due to fiscal conservatives (however it is easier to claim you’ve learned to finally manage money responsibly than you’ve done a 180 on social issues), so he may end up getting the nod.

            Newt can get backing from fiscal conservatives and social conservatives. So the Romney delegates may decide to break Newt rather than Santorum, and the Santorum delegates may go to Newt rather than Romney.

          • Ann_W

            I thought that was a ban-able offense here on redstate.

            If you seriously think he’s as bad as Obama, you haven’t been paying attention. And if you haven’t realized that they’re telegraphing it will get much worse in a lame duck term, you are purposely blind.

            I just keep thinking about Mrs. Obama standing there watching those young military guys handle the flag and she says, “All this for a d*** flag.” and the president agrees with her. If this doesn’t chill you, you aren’t really conservative material.

          • garfieldjl

            My vote is entirely dependent on who I think is worse, it wouldn’t be surprising if Obama does something that makes me think that he’s far worse than Romney.

            Romney could also prove he’s changed his ways, I keep an open mind.

            At this point in time Romney hasn’t proven anything to me other than he plays dirty just like Obama and we still have no clue what his real positions are.

            I’m not going to support a candidate that I have no clue what their real positions are, that’s foolish putting it mildly. I know where Santorum and Gingrich stand on issues, I don’t have any idea what Romney’s positions are.

            Furthermore, unlike liberals we really aren’t a hate-filled bunch, we can’t get out and vote for someone just because we hate the other guy. So Romney needs to show why he deserves our support, not simply smear everyone else.

            If Romney wants my support, he has to earn it, and at this point he’s done nothing to earn my support.

          • clintonformccain

            I have no problem at all going to the polls and voting for somebody just because I hate the other guy. Heck, there have been plenty of elections where I hate all the scoundrels and then you just pick one.

            There are very few candidates for sainthood in politics. It’s great to be idealistic and all, but…

          • jc230

            What

          • jc230

            Sorry, my post went south previously. All politicians play from the same playbook, they go negative. This isn’t new. Hillary bashed Obama throughout the 2008 primaries. Both parties engage in this. Santorum and Newt haven’t been positive role models either. I’d like them to stick to sharing why they’re the preferred candidate and illustrate credible distinctions between them and their opponent (Obama). Going negative works. I wish it didn’t, but it’s effective. It’s certainly not indicative of a character flaw.

          • jc230

            Ann, I’m 100% with you. I’ve asked folks on Red State that if Romney were the GOP candidate, despite not supporting him through the primaries, would they vote for him? Most would not commit to voting for him, and some accused me of telling them whom to vote for. Here is my position, I will vote for whoever is the GOP candidate, period. Since becoming eligible to vote, I don’t sit out elections. Especially when this election is one of most important in our life time. Obama knows if he wins he will go for his social agenda with reckless abandon. He’s already poking various constituents in the eye. Imagine if he wins. If this isn’t enough for the so called conservatives to vote for the GOP nominee, they’re being short sighted. If enough conservatives stand on principal this election, Obama will sail easily into the WH.

          • garfieldjl

            What is the point in winning with a nominee that will:
            1. Continue Obama’s destructive far left policies.
            2. Appoint liberals to the Supreme Court
            3. cost us credibility

            Look folks, I wish I’m wrong on this, but unless Romney is now a conservative and not simply giving us lip service, we’d be better off just taking the Senate, keeping the House and then next time Obama pulls something warranting impeachment, we just throw him out by impeachment.

            Biden is idiotic enough it’s likely he’d give us conservative appointees on accident when he intended to appoint a liberal.

            Santorum and Gingrich would appoint Conservatives to the bench, but Romney isn’t likely to (and his nominees would be more apt to make it through a Republican senate than Obama’s).

            Point I’m making is, this: Can we honestly trust Romney to stick to conservative principles? Can we honestly trust Romney when he says he would appoint conservative justices? Can anyone show me anything he’s done to show that he’s actually changed his ways from when he was Governor of Massachusetts? Not things he’s said what he’s actually done?

            This is something that is seriously important folks, and Romney hasn’t been running on his record, he’s only been tearing everyone else down. Remember folks, Obama ran on hope and change, while tearing down McCain.

            We all agree that we don’t need Obama getting 4 more years, he’s been wrecking this country. I don’t want us to be running a candidate against him that is extremely similar to Obama, and let me be perfectly clear Romney is very similar, not quite as radical as Obama, but similar enough that there is a real issue (based on Romney’s record).

            We can’t exactly put a shock collar on Romney and zap him every time he starts veering to the left.

            Right now, if Romney is the nominee we should focus on keeping the house and getting control of the senate.

          • Bill S

            ..

          • garfieldjl

            Say Romney gets the nomination and wins.

            Let’s say a Supreme Court Justice seat opens up.

            Who would Romney pick?

            Well based on his past record he’s probably going to pick liberals.

            http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-boston/was-romney-a-severely-conservative-republican-governor

            I suggest people read the article.

            We still have time to keep Romney from being the nominee. People need to ask themselves are they just pushing for Romney cause they want the best chance to win, he’s inevitable, yada yada yada, or are you supporting Romney because you believe in what he stands for?

            While I know that people want us to unify now, and that we all really want to beat Obama, but that doesn’t mean we should all check our brains at the door.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            You’d better get used to the sound of that because Rick Perry – my choice – is loooooooong gone. So is Tim Pawlenty, would would be very good. Mitch Daniels won’t get in because he loves his wife more than the power of the Oval Office (he was and still is my #1). So, ALL of the potential “conservatives” are out or chose not to run.

            Which brings us to Newt and sweater boy. Newt is toast, he’s not rising from the dead again. Sweater boy is not only a really bad joke, he could very well lose PA on the 24th. Even if he doesn’t, there is no mathematical possibility that he can win, and an equally small probability that he and Newt can stop him short of 1144 before the convention.

            So get over it and start hoping the huge chinks in Obama’s armor can be taken advantage of by Romney and his campaign machine. And while you’re at it let’s hope Newt will follow Obama to every stop and rip him to shreds as he promised to do if he were the candidate, and let’s also really hope that Santorum and his lovely family (no snark intended) go on a vacation that lasts at least until the 15th of November.

          • habeumnominee

            I remember that you weren’t too keen on Romney the last go-round.

            But if nothing else, the Republican Party’s selection of Romney as its nominee has proven that the party can and will select someone outside of the WASP sub-group as long as that person has conservative principles, a family-values background, proven leadership skills, and the ability to beat an articulate liberal (BHO).

            I’ve never been prouder of my membership in the Republican Party than I am this month.

            The GOP has proven that the politics of personal identity will take a back-seat to meritocracy in certain occasions.

            Hope and change are on the way. For real this time.

          • powertothepeople

            and until we as a party realize as a whole that the time to fight for the so called perfect candidate is in the primaries, we are screwed.

            We had our chance at getting a few good people into the race and we nitpicked them out of contention. Now, no matter what Newt and Santorum state, we are stuck with Romney. Time to get behind him and fire Obama.

            Only thing we can do to save conservatism at this point is put a ton of them in the congress. But we are getting who we get as president.

            And any so called republican or conservative, such as the idiot author, who claims they could even think about voting Obama or against the party after all that has happened in the last 3 plus years, should be tarred and feathered asap.

          • habeumnominee

            Reagan placed both conservatives (Scalia) and moderates (O’Connor, Kennedy) on the Court. Nixon placed both conservatives and moderates on the court. G.H.W. Bush placed one conservative and one liberal on the court. Clinton placed 2 liberals on the court. G.W. Bush put two conservatives on the Court (he tried to put Miers on the court but conservatives and democrats blocked her).

            Obama put two liberals on the court.

            Based on the Republican Party’s increasing emphasis on the courts, I have utter confidence in Romney’s ability to put solid conservatives on the court.

            If the base was able to stop Bush from putting Harriet Miers on the court, it can stop Romney from putting even a Kennedy-esque moderate on the court.

            Romney will go to the mat for a conservative nominee like Sam Alito or John Roberts. I have no doubt of that. If he sells out the base on judicial nominations, he won’t even need to bother running for re-election.

            BTW, look at G.W. Bush’s nominees and tell me that he didn’t sell out the base on some of his lower court nominees.

          • demsaresatanic

            You cite as support for your conclusion

            “Romney will go to the mat for a conservative nominee like Sam Alito or John Roberts. I have no doubt of that. If he sells out the base on judicial nominations, he won

          • acat
          • acat

          • morrigan

            You think there is still a greater-than-a-snowballs-chance-in-hell that Gingrich will be the nominee.

            You did not respond to my question above about how you think a brokered convention would play out, but I see now that you assume that if Romney comes up with 1100 delegates, 44 short of the number needed, he will drop out and all his 1100 delegates will be divided between Santorum and Gingrich.

            And in your scenario, they mostly go to Gingrich.

            I suggest you buy a ticket in that $500 million lottery. You’re as likely to win that as to see the above scenario play out.

          • acat

            If Romney gets that close, or even to 1050, he’s cutting a deal with Ron Paul… who *already* has 95, and will continue to receive a few per contest.

            Treasury Secretary Rand Paul has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?

            Mew

          • Ann_W

            the big smile that puts on my face would make people think I’m doing something else with this computer.

          • samcoastie

            is vastly different than using it. Its their playbook because their arguments all fall apart on the rare occasion that they try to support their statements.

            When Newt attacked Mitt with the “vulture capitalist” theme it was Newt that ended up losing. Mitt barely needed to raise a finger to defend against it, because nearly every fiscal conservative with a voice blasted Newt for attacking from the left, for attacking the heart of capitalism. Mitt basically said that Bain either helped fledgling companies grow, or assisted existing companies that were failing. Sometimes he succeded and sometimes he failed, but on balance Bain helped create jobs. Mitt said his experience, both good and bad, is why he is best qualified to understand and fix the economy. Other pundits pointed out that sometimes parts of a company have to be killed off because otherwise the whole company will die. Mitt’s defense of what Bain did was apparently sufficient enough to get him thgough the primary, even if it is not enough for you.

            On the other hand, Newt’s defense of his role with Freddie and Fannie was clearly not sufficient enough to get hime through the primary, though I am sure you were comfortable with his statement that he was never a ‘registered’ lobbyist. Do you remember when he attacked Romney during the Florida debate about owning stock in Freddie and Fannie?

            Bottom line, Newt who has a alphabet of ways to turn the tables on Obama couldn’t do the same to Romney.

          • garfieldjl

            Newt didn’t simply throw the Bain Capital thing into this simply to go at Romney and use the left’s play book, when Newt brought it up it revealed a few things.

            1. The press was trying to bury it, meaning they had planned to use this in the fall when we couldn’t change our minds anymore.

            2. Romney had no real explanation to defend against the charge, all he did was claim Gingrich hates capitalism, or started yapping about Staples..

            http://commonsense-gater.blogspot.com/2012/01/more-proof-that-mitt-romney-bain.html

            Read the article, I don’t like how the guy doesn’t have links back to sources and the net has been flooded with media stories on the issue that just tries to paint it as trying start new companies and turn them around, but if you look at the video in the diary, you’ll note they have been gathering the stuff to attack Romney on Bain Capital in the general, and are hoping it will make it so they keep the Senate, and retake the House too.

            Democrats love to use appeals to emotion, they have it down to a fine art. The fact they might actually have the facts to back up their planned dismantling of Romney using this emotion based attack and it doesn’t help matters that the facts may be on their side on this.

            I want to beat Obama in November, not hand him 4 more years, the Senate, and the House on a Silver platter.

            In all honesty I think a brokered convention despite how everyone is claiming it would destroy any chance at party unity, would hurt our chances at winning in November a lot less than Romney being the nominee.

            I’m not even trying to dig this stuff up and already it seems like Romney might actually have more baggage than what people think Gingrich has.

            People yap about electability, well if that’s the best argument for Romney, then sorry he shouldn’t be the nominee. We are versing a President that makes Jimmy Carter look like Reagan (I’m saying Obama is so much worse than Carter it is scary). A ticket composed of a Siamese cat and a Chihuahua could arguably take on Obama/Biden and have a good chance of winning.

            In an ordinary election neither Santorum nor Gingrich would be electable (due to how thoroughly the media pulled hit jobs on them), but this isn’t an ordinary election. The fact it is easy to show that they are different from Obama, their ability to get people excited on the base makes them extremely electable against the “Food Stamp President.”

            Romney runs into the problem of being extremely easy to find similarities between Obama and himself (talking about records).

          • garfieldjl

            That’s probably the only thing that has kept Romney from actually being hit with all this stuff.

            Same is true of Santorum, he isn’t willing to go so far as to outright destroy a fellow Republican.

            Obama is fair game in their minds, but Romney is in the Republican party, and that leaves them in the boat of are they going to end up making the potential nominee unelectable by going all out, how far can they go on this without handing the election to Obama if by some off-chance Romney is the nominee.

            Romney is willing to do complete scorched Earth, “If I can’t have it, nobody can.” mentality, Romney is perfectly willing to smear fellow Republicans to make them unelectable if he can’t be the nominee, however Santorum and Gingrich aren’t that way.

          • lapert

            My guys are too saintly to fight this battle…

            The only real downside to the drawn out calendar is we have to suffer fools like you for a bit longer. I’m sure when reality is done smacking you on the head we won’t be hearing much when the real battle begins.

          • samcoastie

            and for the sake of argument am willing to accept everything in it as fact. The conclusion at the end is dead wrong, as is your premise that it is all about intent.

            The purpose of Bain capital was always to make money, not create jobs. What you, Newt and the writer of the article fail to see is that jobs are created by capitalists whose primary drive is making money. Do-gooders who want to create jobs become liberals and destroy wealth by creating government jobs.

          • morrigan

            At 9:37 it’s

          • garfieldjl

            Romney gets part of his support from some fiscal conservatives whom can’t stand Santorum.

            Many of them could go for Gingrich though.

            Earlier in the game the social conservatives being divided helped Romney get in the lead. However now we’re in a situation where Social Conservatives are going to Santorum and fiscal conservatives are going for Romney and Gingrich.

            Gingrich pulls some support from both candidates. If Gingrich can peel enough away from Romney then Romney won’t be able to make it across the finish line.

            So while the anti-Romney vote was split earlier between candidates, Romney now has the issue of the anti-Santorum vote being split, which is why he’s had so many problems wrapping up the nomination.

            People that are anti-Romney are perfectly okay with voting for Santorum and thus that vote isn’t really divided anymore. The nobody but Newt folks are going to keep voting for Newt. However the anti-Santorum vote (some of whom really don’t care that much for Romney) is split between Romney and Newt. The ones that don’t care for Romney have nothing to lose by voting for Gingrich. This is why it is good that both Gingrich and Santorum are still in this.

          • dajeeps

            in a world where you get what you get. He has strong areas, like cutting and cleaning up, and if you listen to the speech he gave at the University of Chicago, he’s come along way from the ‘dark side.’ I used to be a Bob Dole/John McCan’t kind of Republican, and only in the last decade or so headed a lot farther to the right on economic and personal freedom issues. So I know change can happen, and some times it’s more of an evolutionary process than it is instant enlightenment.

            He isn’t ever going to be a Reagan, but then again, no one else in the race is Reagan either. I do think he’ll be better on economic issues than Santorum, and he probably has a better shot at winning the general. If he is who we get, I’ll be okay with it, and maybe even not so much ‘hold my nose and vote.’ One thing is for sure though, we’re in for serious trouble if Obama gets reelected.

          • dajeeps

            Are the thug-like, arrogant and pushy individuals he has in his campaign. He needs to figure out that a kinder, gentler atmosphere would suit him, and his base, much better.

          • clintonformccain

            NT

          • garfieldjl

            dajeeps and I have no problem with him going after Obama in that manner.

            It’s the fact Romney pulled the tactics in the Republican Primary. I thought there was such a thing as Reagan’s 11th Commandment.

            Well Romney started all the mud slinging.

          • demsaresatanic

            as dear McCain did, at least you can say that you tried to warn them.

          • garfieldjl

            Seriously I want to be wrong on this, but I’m extremely scared that I’m probably right about this.

            What’s rather telling to me is that people are attacking the messenger instead of coming up with examples of how Romney is trustworthy, how he is a Conservative now, etc.

            Response are either bash me, bash another critic of Romney, bash Santorum, or bash Gingrich. I have yet to see someone provide an example of Romney changing into a conservative. Oh I imagine there’s things where he claims he has such and such view on an issue, problem is I could probably find videos of him saying the opposite too.

          • jc230

            The cartoonists, with a little creativity, could have some fun.

          • garfieldjl

            I think it is downright scary.

            The best we could come up with to take on the “tele-prompter-in-chief” is an “etch-a-sketch in a business suit.”

            Would it be funny as a comedy routine, sure. However considering it would be real life, I find it to be downright scary.

          • acat

            how you think Romney can be unaware of this…. and whether you think he might, just might, be smart enough to plan for it.

            I don’t support Romney in the primary, but you’re reaching with this.

            Mew

          • garfieldjl

            It’s about over-confidence and arrogance acat. I honestly believe Romney expects he’ll be able to get away with it all day long in the general. I also expect he’ll have a rude awakening.

          • acat

            I no longer do.

            Romney didn’t get to where he is in the campaign by being stupid…. he’s effectively scuttled every other candidate except Santorum… and Rick’s leaky on a good day.

            Yes, Romney is arrogant, but he’s also shown a remarkable ability to pivot and attack… just look at how he nailed Pawlenty and Perry.

            Mew

          • garfieldjl

            [quote]RUSH: So it’s not yet etched in stone. And Romney had another gaffe. He’s talking about his dad who used to run American Motors. George Romney. They made Jeeps and Ramblers and so forth and they had three plants: One in Kenosha, Wisconsin; one in Detroit; and somewhere else. And Romney’s in Wisconsin campaigning and he started bragging how his dad (chuckles) used to close down factories.[/quote]
            http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/03/29/we_now_return_to_the_gop_primary

          • acat

            And depending on where in Wisconsin, it may make sense…

            Mew

          • freedom555

            “Yes, Romney is arrogant, but he

          • habeumnominee

            The nomination battle is effectively over. The time for complaining was three months ago when the fight was still contentious.

            It’s time to set aside our petty differences and support the man who will send Obama back to Chicago.

            Bet on it.

        • garfieldjl

          Anyways, Rubio is trying to desperately unite the party because he thinks we’re fracturing to the point we can’t unite, I respect that, his problem is that Romney has alienated Conservatives (some to the point he’s not going to get their support in November period). I think Rubio didn’t exactly make the wisest choice for an endorsement, but nobody is perfect.

          Everyone here wants Obama out of office, or I would hope that’s the case.

          What we’re disagreeing on is whether or not Romney can be trusted to.
          1. Actually beat Obama in the general.
          2. Would actually work to repeal Obama’s policies if he actually won.

          Since I’m in the crowd that thinks Romney can’t be trusted (in both 1 and 2), I’m not going to support him in the primaries and would rather have a brokered convention than Romney be the nominee.

          • morrigan

            Can you explain how this would work? Not the technical details, the projected happy outcome.

            Suppose we have a brokered convention and it produces Jeb Bush as the nominee? Happy with that?

            Suppose it gives us Jon Huntsman?

            Or Susan Collins?

            Even if the brokered convention results in somebody I’d personally like to see – Jim DeMint – it is FAR from obvious that his being selected and the votes of millions of GOP primary voters being voided would lead to a happy and unified party going into November. The probable result of a brokered convention will be that a lot of people are going t feel they have been slighted.

          • clintonformccain

            I think Rubio didn

          • garfieldjl

            I think principles and charecter are more important than simply winning.

            Yes Newt has made mistakes, but the man has charecter, and actually has a record of a balanced budget.

            Rick Santorum has made mistakes but he has charecter too.

            What does Romney really stand for, I still don’t have a clue, I know what he’s said he stands for but because of the fact he’s like an “etch-a-sketch” I really can’t say what he stands for or what his principles are.

          • morrigan

            I asked you a pretty simple and straightforward question about the brokered convention, and you recite your canned message which has nothing to do with the question.

            But you did get in one more “etch-a-sketch

          • morrigan

            You act as f the only variable is whether we can “trust” Romney to beat Obama and “trust” him to do such and such if elected.

            There are a huge number of variables which will determine whether Obama wins or loses, and what a President Romney would be able to do if elected.

          • garfieldjl

            No, I wouldn’t want Jon Huntsman or Susan Collins to get the nod.

            However, I think the chance of that happening is less likely than Ron Paul getting the nod.

            Would there be a risk that people will feel slighted, sure that’s why I’m not saying what I’m saying lightly, Romney has me that concerned.

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    • habeumnominee

      Polls show Romney running ahead of both Santorum and Gingrich.

      Polls show Romney running ahead of Obama at this point.

      Once Santorum, Gingrich, and Paul drop out, Romney will get an additional “bump” in the polls.

      Once Romney chooses a running mate, he should get another “bump”. Obama has governed poorly. If the voters in the swing state vote to give him a chance to finish off the wreckage that he started, they are literally signing their own death warrant.

      • garfieldjl

        http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/28/polls-obama-leads-romney-by-double-digits-nationally/

        I don’t put much stock in the polls, but one shouldn’t make claims that are not true.

        • habeumnominee

          http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/elections/

          You, sir, are a liar. You look one poll that shows Romney trailing Obama and you fail to see the polls that show him leading Obama.

          You also fail to make your point that Romney is the weakest nominee. The polls indicate that he is the best of the bunch.

          Love him or hate him, he is still a stronger candidate than Santorum, Gingrich, or Paul.

  • Stricia

    You all are quite delusional if you believe Romney will be denied the nomination.

    • garfieldjl

      Romney alienates the base, he’s considered to be an “etch-a-sketch” dressed in a business suit, and he won’t get away with dirty campaign smears in the fall.

      Look I pray that Romney has changed his ways, but nothing he’s done indicates that he has, quite the opposite.

      However, if I wouldn’t suggest holding your breath for Romney to go after Obama’s policies once he gets in the WH, you would probably die from lack of Oxygen. Romney is more apt based on his past record of embracing Obama’s policies.

      Senator John McCain would have an easier time turning out the base this time (now that people know what Obama is really), than Romney will. While McCain isn’t liked by the base, he hasn’t done anything to alienate them like Romney has.

      • morrigan

        >”While McCain isn

        • garfieldjl

          McCain annoyed the base regularly, that’s true. However, he never would have conducted the smear campaign of such dishonesty that we saw Romney pull.

          So while yeah McCain annoys many conservatives, he never resorted to the tactics of smearing fellow Republicans like Romney has.

          • morrigan

            I had not noticed that this primary was notable for any unusual degree of dirty tricks or dishonest ads.

          • garfieldjl

            Currently can’t find a link it’s been drowned out in all the other stuff, but you get the idea.

            Mark Levin isn’t a Gingrich supporter but went ballistic during Romney’s smear-a-thon in Florida. Maybe someone else can find it, my point being that this will come back to bite Romney in the general.

          • morrigan

            I notice you do that a lot.

          • Ann_W

            That’s what I remember from FL.

            But if you remember Mark Levin getting angry, then it must have been a dirty rotten smear.

          • Ann_W

            I’ve heard a lot of upset without a lot of details.

            I remember a Santorum phone ad in Mich. that encouraged Democrats to vote against Romney because Romney didn’t support the auto bailout without mentioning that Santorum also didn’t support the auto bailout. That was a good one.

          • Finrod

            Even Erick made note of how Romney flooded the airwaves with cheap smear ads against Newt. Then in the Florida debate, Newt tried to pin Mitt down on one of his ads, and Mitt denied ever seeing an ad that had him in it saying “My name is Mitt Romney and I approve this message”.

          • Ann_W

            in all of people complaining about the smear tactics. I would like to hear specifically what was inaccurate, not what Newt would have liked to have ignored until the general election.

          • garfieldjl

            In one example team Romney (the Super PAC and the campaign use the same consulting firm), actually found an old video of Newt speaking about Reagan’s foreign policy and then used video editting to alter said video to make it look like he was bashing Reagan when he wasn’t.

            It later came out, because a person actually went to I believe it was the Library of Congress (not sure cause I’m going entirely off of memory) and found Newt’s actual speech, further I think the real unedited video surfaced too.

            Then we have Rush Limbaugh commenting on this:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0wDgPQ6sJs

            You have to wait about 20 seconds in to start hearing Rush’s commentary.

            I hope that answers the question.

          • morrigan

            http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/289159/gingrich-and-reagan-elliott-abrams?pg=1

            I have no idea why you think that Rush Limbaugh has some special monopoly on Truth, but that’s just one more thing you’re mistaken about.

    • clintonformccain

      In other news, I was in a phone poll in Indiana. I said I

  • powertothepeople

    that at this point you are undecided in a hypothetical match up between Romney and Obama speaks volumes about you and your political sway.

    I could give a rats ass how you feel about Romney, even if he turned out to be the worst republican president to date or ever to come, he would still be heads and shoulders above Obama. I doubt he has a socialist agenda, is a racist arrogant, POS, I doubt he would even come close to being as devastating to our country as Obama. I know he would not support the killing of children who survived abortions, and so on and so on.

    I do not like any of the candidates left, but I do not and will not have any qualms about pulling the lever for anyone who faces Obama. Your self serving pious BS that you have spewed all over the site is deserving of nothing but our contempt. It is idiots like you that put that dumbass in power in the first place and if he wins again, it will again be the credit of morons like you.

    But I hope you quiver over to my response and make a feeble attempt at an explanation as my niceness with you has run out.

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      Seems like I haven’t seen you for a while… Good to see ya.

      • powertothepeople

        was gone for awhile dealing with a sudden illness in the family. Thought we were out of the water, and then they passed. Had to go back and deal with the specifics of that.

        But unless something else goes wrong, I am back with my whit and always present charm and kindness!

        Good to see you as well!

    • texastaxpayer

      Actually I take issue with that. I think like myself and most everyone else here Garfield voted for the last RINO Mccain against Obama. What did that get us? So calling him a moron hardly seems accurate as he has already tried your way. To my mind you should be working to get someone who has a shot at not only winning but actually halting the decline and decay of our nation elected. Do you think that because Romney isn’t racist or for killing children that survive abortions. If he keeps all the policies he has to this point agreed with Obama on. Healthcare, crippling environmental regulations or tax and “fees” policies its going to make one d@mn bit of difference?

      So many of you seem to have let your hatred for Obama blind you to the larger picture. We need someone who is going to actually address the issues and make the changes necessary. Nothing in Romney’s history or ever evolving campaign “stances” suggests he is serious in this regard.

      • clintonformccain

        I’m just looking for a little basic competence and good judgement in the Oval Office. Once we get that taken care, we can start talking about saving all of humanity and all the other lofty pie-in-the-sky goals being tossed around.

        The problem with the disgruntled base right now is that they are judging everything by unobtainable absolutist standards. There simply are no politicians who are pure as the driven snow philosophically. The ones who claim to be are lying.

        I don’t even care if I agree with Mitt Romney’s positions. I don’t agree with him on many issues. I don’t care. I just want a guy who at least makes rational decisions and is a competent chief executive. Heck, I voted for W in 2004 and thought he was dead wrong on just about everything. But, he was better than the alternative. That’s the way the system works.

      • habeumnominee

        No surprise. Garfield strikes me as a malcontent. And/or a troll.

      • powertothepeople

        but until that happens, we have to deal with what we have. The time for your perfect candidate was in the primaries, we failed once again, so now we are stuck with Mr Hair. Get over it.

        So again, I restate my point that it was a bunch of dumbasses that put Obama in power the first time, and when an idiot who claims to be a republican states that they are undecided between Obama and Romney, I will call them what they are. And that would be morons.

        Are you upset that I called him out on his nonsense or that I am yet unaware you feel the same way and should have been mentioned as well?

        • clintonformccain

          All this fuss over…. Rick….. Santorum? This is hardly a candidate who walks on water. Sheesh. I mean, with any sense of perspective it’s laughable that he even ran for President after getting crushed in his Senate re-election bid. Clearly the voters in his own state had seen enough of Rick Santorum after 12 years.

      • habeumnominee

        I did not give McCain one single dollar. I remembered how he sold out me and every conservative on ANWR and on judicial nominations (Gang of 14).

        McCain had to slog it out without my dollars.

        I’ve already donated money to Romney and I plan to donate more.

        We cannot endure another 4 years with Steve Erkel in command of the military and the largest GDP in the world.

        We’ve got to get him out of there even if it means Christians and Mormons will need to break bread together (long overdue if you ask me).

        I’m not worried about Romney’s ability to beat Obama or about Romney’s commitment to conservatism.

        I’m excited about this year.

    • garfieldjl

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/romney-comes-out-against-blunt-amendment/2012/02/29/gIQAAjzriR_blog.html

      Granted he finally flip flopped to being supposedly in support of the bill so if it were that story alone, we could argue that he just didn’t know what was being talked about and thought it was the hit job concerning condoms and junk.

      However, this isn’t an isolated incident, I direct everyone’s attention to:
      http://prolifeprofiles.com/mitt-romney-abortion

      I’m not going to make any comments, the articles speak for themselves.

      Yes he may have a way to throw some of it back at Obama on this issue, but not nearly as much as what would be necessary because a lot of the things Obama has done as President, Romney did while Governor of Massachusetts. I’m not saying all of it, but enough of it to actually consider the two to be similar.

      You want to know why I had no problems supporting McCain against Obama, but I am undecided about Romney verses Obama. Answer is really quite simple, I didn’t get the impression that McCain was lieing to my face and basically spitting on me and telling me it was rain, I get that impression from Romney. Furthermore, since the facts back that impression up, I think I have a very good reason to be undecided.

      I’m not disputing that Obama is a horrible President, I want that guy out of there, I got into arguments with my family that didn’t believe that Obama could that radical all the way back in 07, they thought Sean Hannity had lost his mind, I didn’t and my fanily realized in 08 that Sean Hannity was right. I want the left wing radical to be handed a pink slip in November.

      What you all seem to be missing is the fact I don’t want the potential replacement to the current radical in the WH to be another left winger whom instead of being from Chicago, is from Massachusetts.

      Santorum is right on this, we need someone whom offers a clear difference between themselves and Obama, not someone that is extremely similar to Obama.

      • powertothepeople

        stupid runs deep in some people and with you obviously, but by all means, please be kind enough to show where any intimidation occurred. Maybe I am old fashion, but to intimidate someone, one would have to threaten that person with some form of personal damage. You know, something along the line of I am coming to slap you in the mouth.

        As to the rest of your vomit, blah blah blah. What is in the water lately with some of you? Where in anything I have ever said is there any claim Romney is pro life? Stating that I am sure Romney would not support the killing of babies who survive the abortion procedure by the attending doctor is a far cry from confirming or declaring Romney is pro life. Where did I ever express any kind of desire to know why you supported McCain yet hesitate with Romney. In fact, where did I state ever any type of desire to know anything about you?

        I am not going to repeat my previous statement, simply going to state for the record again that it is idiots like you who put Obama in power before, it will be idiots like you who do it again. You are a moron to even claim that Romney is even close to being as lefty as Obama, and it is pure BS to state on one hand that you are a republican then claim you are undecided about who to vote for between Romney and Obama. I have no use for deumbasses, do not waste my time with them, hence this will be my last reply to you.

        Now, if you want to call that intimidating, I can only leave you with two suggestions, get a sack and get a life.

  • samcoastie

    While I don’t believe garfield is a lefty he has clearly mastered their playbook. If questioned or challenged he chooses one of the following: ignore the question; change the topic; spout off a random talking point; or say the exact same thing he had just said as if repitition somehow reinforces his argument.

    Gingrich and Sontorum have both responded similarly to the attacks by the Romney campaign. Like garfield they have chosen to whine about it without effectively refuting the attacks.

    I believe Pawlenty and Perry were both far superior anybody but Romney candidates, but one didn’t stay in the race long enough and the other didn’t stay out of the race long enough. Romney is the last man standing. Any chance Santorum had in Wisconsin left with Paul Ryan’s endorsement of Romney this morning. Get over it and get on board.

    • garfieldjl

      The issue I’m raising here in this diary is about Romney and whether or not he is trustworthy.

      This isn’t about Santorum, this isn’t about Gingrich, Perry, Paul, Bachmann, Palin, Daniels, Christie, etc.

      This is about Mitt Romney, and if you can’t actually show anything to demonstrate why anyone should trust Romney, at least have the honesty to admit it, instead of trying to shift topics to put me on the defensive.

      Also, as to knowing the left’s playbook, well I’d like to thank you for the compliment, the first step in beating the Democrats in November is to know how they plan to operate, attack, etc. If you can easily predict what someone is going to do next, it’s rather easy to win, because you’re always one step ahead of them.

      I’ve already thought up ways Santorum can turn tables on Obama, and ways Gingrich could turn tables on Obama (though Gingrich probably has so many he has them alphabetized). The one candidate that I can’t come up with ways to really turn tables on Obama is Romney.

      Can anyone tell me that they can come up with a defense for the video I posted a link to in the diary, yeah we all know the people that did the video have a bias, but can anyone come up with a good defense. Cause I sure can’t, and it is the kind of attack Romney will be facing from when the Dems think he has the nomination locked up all the way to November. Claiming to being responsible for Staples (which Romney and Bain Capital weren’t they were a minor investor only and had no sway over Staples as a start-up company and that will probably be pointed out in the general) isn’t going to help Romney when videos like that come start flying around.

      • samcoastie

        He’s at heart a logical, cost vs. gain, pure capitalism guy. That’s what I trust about him. He’ll govern as a conservative because there is no logical reason not to.

        Much of what he did in MA he did because he made certain promises to get elected as Governor and he did not want it said that he did not keep his word. He did other things becase there were no better VIABLE choice available. He spent two years on Romneycare, because he logically determined he had no better choice available. In Massachusetts if it weren’t for Romneycare they would have single payer government provided health care and there would be no private health insurance in the state.

  • vastrightwingconspiracy

    …that you were able to type for several paragraphs without putting one iota of substantive reasoning in your argument.

    Couldn’t you have saved yourself, and the rest of us, a bunch of time simply by saying, “I’m voting for Obama if Romney is the nominee.”

    Funny, I think I remember someone else saying that recently as well. That’s right. It was the “rock-steady” conservative candidate, Rick Santorum.

    Your “fear” of Romney behaving the same as Obama if factually and anecdotally misplaced. Methinks you have unspoken, albeit transparent, and sinister underlying reasons for not supporting him, should he be the nominee.

    • garfieldjl

      I currently am undecided as to who to vote for if Romney is the nominee. I’m voting Republican in the other races.

      I find it rather telling that everyone has been attacking me without providing one shred of evidence to address my concerns. That tells me you don’t have any evidence to show, all you have is speeches that I can find where it was a flip-flop from a few days earlier, or he flip-flops a few days your example and is now taking the opposite viewpoint.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unrtz3FjIzw

      Actually watch the above video you can copy the text and to your navigation bar in the browser and watch it.

      The “etch-a-sketch” comment is huge due to Romney’s reputation of being on all sides of an issue.

      Do I think Santorum has problem sure, but this is about Romney not Santorum, but it isn’t Newt and Santorum that have been equated to an “etch-a-sketch” by someone high up in their campaign.

      The concern I’m raising is a legitimate one, given Romney’s past record.

      • vastrightwingconspiracy

        …all the issues where Romney has been on both sides, as well as evidence where he was firmly on both sides.

        I can think of one – Abortion.

        I eagerly await your response.

        • JSobieski

          Do you really want me to go on?

          • garfieldjl

            Gun Control
            Immigration

            Even worse Romney was pushing for Obamacare to include the individual mandate back in 2009.

            Furthermore you know how Obama is going after religious institutions for not providing abortion services or paying for them, well Romney actually did the same thing while Governor of Massachusetts. Not only that he lied in a debate, on this issue.

            http://bostoncatholicinsider.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/did-romney-lie-about-cardinal-omalley-to-the-nation-during-the-wednesday-debate/

            So we also have Romney being on both sides of the issue when it comes to Religious liberty.

          • lapert

            Newt was supportive of an individual mandate in May of last year – longer after it had passed congress. He even said he would not make an issue of Romneycare in a primary…

            http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/05/15/newt-gingrichs-rapidly-self-limiting-campaign-defends-the-individual-mandate/

            Uh, oh…

          • garfieldjl

            Here we go again with the “etch-a-sketch” tear everyone else down routine to try to distract people.

            If this is how Romney wants to conduct himself in the general, he’s toast.

          • lapert

            Ok, that’s funny – when you use the same accusation the post before it is an indication of how bad Romney is, but here the tactic is questioned.

            Well, this is a typical garfield tactic, his chosen candidate’s campaign is done and burried and he can’t acknowledge how flawed a candidate he was.

            No distractions needed, all Romney has to do is say scoreboard.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …premise that Romney is terrible?

            You write a diary tearing down a candidate and then whine about your candidate being treated similarly? You sound like…like…like…your candidate.

            Carry on.

          • morrigan

            I actually do not have any major problems with Santorum or Gingrich, the men or the candidates. I think they are slightly more flawed than Romney, who is also somewhat flawed. I’ve vote for them if they won the nomination though.

            Some of their more zealous fans, however, are … well, I can’t actually say what they are without running into the “be respectful” guideline. But maybe I can get away with saying that at times they are very hard to distinguish from the Ron Paul supporters.

            Turning ones emotional intensity up to “11″ does not actually work as means of convincing people.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …of his positions, not just throwing out topics.

            You were able to at least provide a blog for one of your allegations. Not saying it’s accurate, but at least the allegation isn’t just anecdotal. If I remember correctly those mandates were already the law when he came into office.

          • garfieldjl

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romney-and-plan-b-the-santorum-and-gingrich-claims/2012/02/07/gIQATG6VxQ_blog.html

            http://cnsnews.com/node/508858

            The above is over the religious issue and I’m having problems finding any of the Boston Herald’s or Boston Globe’s 2005 archives online.

            This was supposedly after he became pro-life btw. Would you like the gun control issue next?

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …there’s 2 issues.

            Please continue with the swath of others.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …in detail, discuss his specific positions on the auto bailout, right to work initiatives at the state level and how he has been on both sides of minimum wage issues.

            Now that you’ve flung the poo, see if any will stick.

  • deVere

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/30/Atlantic-Oil-And-Gas

    I’m not at all fond of Romney, but compared to Obama he’s quite attractive.

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