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Skeletal Framework of what I think Obamacare should be replaced with

The bill would have to do the following.

1. Allow competition across state lines.

2. Deal with pre-existing conditions so that is covered (I have an idea for this which I will mention later in this entry), and can’t simply be dropped because you have been diagnosed with an illness.

3. Lawsuit reform (I’ll let others argue how this should be handled)

4. Have no mandate.

5. Let small businesses get together and hire someone to represent them all to get the group an insurance policy for their employees as though they were a larger corporation.

6. Does not give any new guidelines as to what insurers have to or don’t have to cover, any guidelines prior to Obamacare’s enactment would be a good basis, other than that, it is a matter for when someone/or a group in the case of a business buys insurance.

 

The reason why the individual mandate was in Obamacare had to do with people with pre-existing conditions that just got diagnosed and decided to get insurance at that point.  There is a relatively easy way to deal with this without having an individual mandate:

If someone buys health insurance, if they aren’t simply changing insurers (examples of this exception: let’s say a child is going of their parents’ insurance onto their own insurance plan, or someone changing jobs is going from one insurer to another), the Insurance company does not have to pay for any healthcare expenses from any pre-existing condition that was diagnosed prior to buying the policy.

Simply put, if you didn’t have insurance to begin with and you get let’s say a diagnosis of cancer, you can’t simply get health insurance and expect the company to pay for it, you’re responsible for the costs of treatment for that 5 year window associated with that pre-existing condition.

That makes it so if people want to go without insurance, they’re perfectly able to do so, however they can’t just go get insurance when they get a health issue and then expect the insurer to deal with the costs.

There is no mandate, and it keeps insurers out of the situation where they get hit with people only getting insurance when they get diagnosed with a serious health issue which would bankrupt them.

I think this skeletal framework would be lightyears better than Obamacare, Obamatax, or whatever else you want to call that idiotic waste of paper.

COMMENTS

  • checkmate2012

    individuals should buy insurance and get gov’t and employers out of the equation! Just like home, fire, car insurance. If I had a mandate, no one but an individual can buy health insurance (i.e. not via employer or government), but as a stand alone policy.For the down trodden, perhaps some help but not in totatlity. Skin in the game.

    Yes many of your points are relevant but it doesn’t solve the problem. I agree with you across state lines and tort reform. This nonsense isn’t about healthcare, even at the state level providing for the lesser, it’s about control. If we had individual plans bought directly, then somehow the free market would respond to “collectively bargain” for a high risk pool. Ya I cringed at saying that but for the sake of the argument.

    Individual policies like I described above would make them compete and would preclude pre-existing conditions that are long-term policy holders in many cases but also people that lose their insurance when they lose their job.

    NO more gov’t “helpful” programs period. That’s how you solve it. BTW, since I lost my employer insurance, as a cash pay patient, I get 20% my great doctor’s rate. The less paper rate.

    • commonsenseobserver

      There should be nothing stopping employees from pooling.

      It’s more important to equalise the tax treatment of such expenses with a means-tested tax credit.

      But there is a role for government in enhancing choice by expanding HSAs and creating market-based high risk pools, and perhaps interstate insurance exchanges as well. But many proposed solutions involving government would only serve to restrict competition and choice, undermine personal control, and drive up costs.

      • commonsenseobserver

        There’s no way to address health reform without reforming Medicare and Medicaid.

        • checkmate2012

          have it both ways. I agree that pools, be it employer, a state, high risk, etc., shall have the ability to form a pool based upon common interests, but it shall not be a dictate from the feds. If it happens on it’s own due to the free-market, so be it.

          Let us see what happens if the gov’t declares all individuals can by a personal policy and eliminate the discrimations in place today.

          HSA’s are a great idea but now the gov (O’care) restricts the cap. That’s a function of tax policy moreso.

          Personal liberty and accountability rule IMO and yes, M&M plans need to go by the wayside, eventually base upon age.

        • garfieldjl

          Heck they would save millions if not billions of dollars (and it probably would be billions), if they actually got serious about fighting the fraud. As well as firing incompetitent idiots and hiring people with basic common sense.

          For instance you don’t routinely schedule someone whom has lost both eyes for an eye exam to see if their vision has improved in an attempt to kick them off Social Security Disability, cause their vision isn’t going to improve without divine intervention or prosthetic eyes being invented that actually will work in people.

      • garfieldjl

        While people that have medical conditions would want to stay on insurance, I make sure that people can’t exploit the system using that 5 year window as the time period that an insurer doesn’t have pay for those pre-existing conditions, the new customer would have to.

        If an insurer chose to waive that, then the insurer would be perfectly free to do so.

        My idea lets employers get together with other employers to get a joint policy (which they would be paying a cheaper rate because it is in bulk). I have nothing in there about forcing an employer to provide insurance nor do I force them into those groups, nor are those groups under the control of the Federal Government. Only time anyone would step in is if there were fraud taking place.

        Insurers would be able to negotiate what they would and would not cover, and people and businesses could negotiate what coverage they want, I just wouldn’t let the insurer back out of a contractural agreement that they already agreed to. If the insurer really starts to pull shannigans like raising rates astronomically when the 5 year window ends to force people to have to drop off that insurance, then they obviously had no intent to follow their end of the contractural agreement that they made with the individual or business, which I think is already able to be addressed in current civil and/or criminal court, since I think it would be considered fraud.

    • tnfriendofcoal101368

      If employers want to divert some of the money they would otherwise be using towards salary towards employee insurance then they should be free to do so. Employers actually do have a vested interest in ensuring their employees remain healthy (and for employees in high demand markets this is also an incentive to attract high performing employees). The point is that in a completely free market; everyone should be free to pursue their own best interest…if an employer finds getting group insurance for employees is in it’s best interest they should be free to pursue it.

      What should not happen is that there is a government incentive to pursue it (i.e. whatever tax breaks the employer receives should be equal but not exceed the tax break the individual not going through employer plans receives). Though I am more of the Government ought to set taxes to a base rate required and not engineer social change through the tax code (I know another conversation).

      • garfieldjl

        That’s why I have no mandate in my proposal, I’m saying that employers can do something if they choose to. I’m not saying that they have to do anything, there are no taxes/penalties, etc. involved in this.

        I am saying that contractural agreements must be enforced, but those contracts are negotiated between the insurer and the customer and the Feds should have no say as to what is in the contract.

  • JSobieski

    can be done by the supply side of insurance, just like it is in manufacturing cars

    • checkmate2012

      cha-ching!

      • JSobieski

        health insurance is the only “market” where pooling by buyers is considered so necessary. Do home buyers pool? Do car buyers pool? The USSR pooled.

        • checkmate2012

          but with no coercion by employer nor gov’t plans.

          Perhaps your comment wasn’t for me if you read my comment to Garfield…

          • JSobieski

            nt

          • checkmate2012

            it all the time.

          • JSobieski

            But I am glad that someone else responded to the false assumption that pooling is the end all and be all in health insurance.

            That is how socialized medicine is pushed. If big pools are critical, then the entire country is going to be the biggest possible pool.

          • checkmate2012

            meaning…sorry :)

            I’m an issue and truth person with common sense and glad a lawyer like you has common sense.

        • trimulchio

          If you had, you would not ask that question . . . .

        • garfieldjl

          Employers don’t have to get together with other small businesses in the area if they decide they don’t want to. Heck, they don’t even have to offer insurance under my idea.

          I’m saying that Employers are allowed to form a pool if they so choose to purchase a policy.

          I’m not having Government involved in this at all aside from ensuring that insurers are allowed to compete across state lines and allowing small businesses to get together and jointly get an insurance policy for their employees.

          I want government out of this as much as possible, the only thing I’m concerned about is what would happen to people whom are diagnosed with something like a cancer, an insurer shouldn’t be able to dump someone just cause they got cancer and it would be expensive to treat said cancer. The person has been paying their premiums which is fulfilling their end of the contract, the insurer must also fulfill their end of the contractural agreement.

          If a contract isn’t worth the paper it is printed on, then quite frankly it is completely meaningless.

  • JSobieski

    The dependency on group-based pools is the result of government policies which actively stop a true market based on individual consumers

    • trimulchio

      Probably not Sam’s Club, either.

      • acat

        They started as the United States Automobile Association, serving *only* members of the Armed Services, who proved to be a much better risk than most insurance agencies thought. Further, USAA did this without sales agents, so could keep the costs to their members lower.

        Pooling doesn’t apply.

        Mew

        • trimulchio

          “The United Services Automobile Association (USAA) is a Texas-based diversified financial services group of companies[3] which includes a Texas Department of Insurance regulated unincorporated, reciprocal inter-insurance exchange . . . .”

          • acat

            Know how I know?

            I’m one of their customers.

            Mew

      • JSobieski

        Employer-based approaches create problems because employer-employee relationships tend to be short lived.

        In contrast, I am not familiar with a lot of Sam’s Club stores closing anywhere. Nor am I aware of a Sam’s Club firing its customers.

        The employer-employee relationship is a poor basis for something that needs to be portable.

        If you create an indvidual market, businesses will apply leverage in a way that benefits consumers without making them vulnerable to employment changes.

        When I buy a car from Ford, Ford essentially pools together that money with other contemplated purchases to build the next generation of vehicle that people want to buy.

        We don’t need to pool together with our employees to buy cars, houses, or anything else.

        Pooling is a fancy way for saying “market forces can be leveraged by purchasers.”.

    • tnfriendofcoal101368

      Government shouldn’t be picking winners and losers…the market should.

  • lastgopinillinois

    I’m no healthcare expert. Just trying to apply some of my simple-minded sense to your items #2 and 5

    garfields item # 2
    The ability for insurance companies to deny applications for pre-existing conditions or to cancel an existing policy because a policy-holder became sick should never have been allowed in the first place. The new health reform law should specifically state that insurance policies shall constitute a LEGAL and binding CONTRACT between the the insurance provider and policyholder as long as the premium is current. Thus, in my view, an insurance provider would never attempt to break this portion of the law, because they would realize that policyholders would hire lawyers (who would offer a “no-cost” feature) to take the case against the insurance company. The “no-cost” feature guarantees that the plaintiff would not be charged any fees by the law firm. If the Lawyer wins the case, he collects his fee as part of the settlement from the insurance company. If the lawyer loses the case, he does not collect a fee from anyone. The “no-cost” feature is a double-play. It discourages insurance companies from dis-obeying the Law in the first place, and if they are bold enough to do it anyway, the plaintiff would be encouraged to seek proper justice, while the law firm would be discouraged from taking a frivolous or unfounded case. Why it does NOT work like this now is beyond me.

    garfields item # 5
    Just some food for thought on insurance “pools”.
    In just the private sector, we have employer provided insurance pools, retiree insurance pools, various self-employed group pools and then we have individuals who are for some reason prohibited from purchasing group plans (none available or prohibited by State law, etc).

    Where people can get into insurance pools, insurance premiums are greatly reduced compared to individual policy premiums due to high volume, however the “pool” negotiator receives a fee which increases costs.
    Then, you have individual policy holders who pay higher premiums than do groups.
    Then you have the un-insured, whose health care costs are astronomically reduced compared to both the above. (No insurance or govt compliance forms for hospital & insurance company beaurocrats to deal with). Its a cash for service transaction, plain and simple. Smart consumers can further reduce costs by negotiating with providers, asking for generic med prescriptions and arranging for the patient to report the service to his own family physician, thus subtracting that cost from the providers fee. (this is, of course, in the case of a responsible paying citizen).
    Then you have the un-insured, non-paying consumers of health care, (Nancy Pelosi’s “free-riders). Gee, I thought she was soooo in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens. Utter hypocrisy! The costs for non-paying recipients of health care translate back to all of us paying citizens in the form of HIGHER insurance premiums.

    But what if we eliminated ALL the pools and allowed ONLY individual policies across the entire spectrum. It would eliminate the pools (middle-man) and reduce some of the cost and it would even out policy premium costs across the spectrum, rather than the current vast disparity. Now couple this with allowing insurance companies to sell policies across State lines, and I believe you would realize a significant cost reduction.

    If doing all these things could end up making health-care more affordable, you might see more people entering the ranks of the insured (which would further saturate the insurance industry with funds and SHOULD further reduce premium costs) in theory.

    • trimulchio

      is totaled and you get paid a certain sum; this is someone deciding how (if ) they are going to treat prostate cancer.

    • garfieldjl

      First situation about pre-existing conditions and the making sure that the ability of insurers to drop coverage of an individual is extremely limited is actually a rather sound one.

      If person X was paying into that insurance plan for years and gets diagnosed with Cancer, which treatments are very expensive… I don’t think the insurance company should be allowed to bail out on that individual, whom had been paying that insurance company with the understanding that if something did happen the insurance company would cover the healthcare issue.

      The reason why one wouldn’t need a mandate in this is quite simple. When a person gets insurance for the first time having not been insured before, the insurance company doesn’t have to pay a dime for any pre-existing conditions for the first five years, that is the new customer’s responsibility. That means if an uninsured person just gets diagnosed with cancer, they can’t suddenly go out and buy an insurance plan (since insurers would have a tough time denying them coverage) to force the insurer into bankruptcy.

      You aren’t forced to buy insurance, but if something does happen then you’re stuck with the results of your own decision. Can an insurance company waive that 5 year period, sure but that would be their decision to make, not the government’s.

      ——————————

      Second point, many employers offer health insurance plans as an incentive for people to work at their business. It is an attempt to make their business more attractive to potential employees and an incentive for current employees to stay with that business. No one forced anyone to accept a job at that business, it is a contractual agreement between the employer and the employee.

      As for small businesses being able to get together and purchase insurance as a group, well I think it is perfectly reasonable. It is often cheaper to buy things in bulk. If 20 small businesses with 50 employees each get together and go get health insurance for their employees and families as a group you’re dealing with an pool of over 1000 people for one insurance plan, versus 20 different insurance contracts with smaller pools.

      Insurance companies can afford to offer cheaper rates in the instance of the 1000+ people pool. because the overall risk has been substancially lessened.

      People would probably go on their employer’s insurance plan because it is cheaper, if they want to go out and get their own insurance, that’s perfectly fine, no one is going to force them on it. Since the employer would be essentially paying in “bulk” for the insurance of his/her employees, he would be paying a cheaper rate per employee than that employee would be paying if they got their own insurance policy…

  • trimulchio

    Here are some fairly insightful articles on the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (

    • acat

      Two points, trimulchio. First, “buying across state lines” vastly increases pool size, and therefore lowers cost.

      If Insurance Company X offers a NY-grade “bells and whistles” plan and an AL “just the basics” plan, they can still add healthy low-risk 30somethings to the same pool, even though the plans are dissimilar. This does reduce cost because pools can be significantly larger.

      Second, “buying across state lines” increases the pressure on the States to have more similar plans available. Why does New York get to specify lots of bells and whistles that most residents don’t necessarily want?

      Third, the approach you’ve taken to arguing this, insulting those who get that larger pools == lower cost, and asserting that the result would automatically be some kind of cut-rate crap plan rather than what the market *wants* doesn’t say anything good about you.

      Mew

      • conservativemusician

        Please know up front that I am no expert on health care and have not read as extensively on this issue as you and others have, but I think Romney is on the right track with what he wants to do with health care post ObamaCare repeal.

        If you haven’t already done so, check out this link:

        http://www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

        (h/t MittRomney.com)

        • aesthete

          Some good stuff (very weak support of HSAs, equalizing the employer tax credit situation), some bad stuff (subsidies for states! no discrimination for pre-existing conditions! “innovation” grants!), and some stuff that is not bad in and of itself, but that I need to wait and see on. Not really a plan per se, and I’m not terribly fond of the generalisms that I am seeing, though I’m open to seeing what ends up coming out of the committee.

  • norris

    to your list a high deductible low cost option . Most healthy people could cover check ups and sinus infections out of pocket, but back operations cancer and major accidents could bankrupt many people.

    • garfieldjl

      They can negotiate what is covered by the policy, the deductable, etc., what the customer would still have to pay out of pocket, etc.

      Government should not be involved in that unless the insurance company shows that they had no intention of fulfilling their end of the contractural agreement in the first place, which would be considered fraud and is covered under existing laws.

      • trimulchio

        The pool size is pretty well irrelevant if we are talking something closer to pure experiance rating, which is closer to what you have in some states with very weak insurance laws. This is also closer to what you have in car insurance markets (with some state law -based restrictions on how long something on your abstract can raise your rates).

        On the other hand, if you REALLY want to expand the risk pool, a better approach would be to simply put everyone into the Medicare or Medicaid program, that would be a unitary risk pool covering the entire population. So, clearly, larger risk polls are not necesarily a solution in themselves.

        The most reasonable approach would be to let people band together in MEWAs which both pre-empt state law and allow people to decide what should be covered, what acts or changes in health risks could be rewarded with lower premiums, etc. (Something like the Safeway or GE ERISA plans). In essence, USAA for health insurance.

        • garfieldjl

          Private companies are by far more competitent than the government, when there is competition they have an incentive to treat their customers well or their customers go elsewhere. If the system is single payer, where do I go when government decides they don’t have to offer quality service, fact of the matter is there is no place else to go.

          When an employer offers insurance for their employees it is an incentive for people to want to work at that business. Employers have an incentive for wanting their workers to remain healthy. In all honesty, government couldn’t care less especially since it will be the shannigans of a bunch of unelected officials that are in a public union that could be child molesters and they would still have their cushy job.

          The fact that I said insurers could cross state lines means that it is an interstate commerce issue (a legitimate commerce situation, unlike Obamascam).

          • acat

            the Department of Motor Vehicles is quite cliche’, of course, but ..they’re just that awful to deal with.

            Do you want to spend an afternoon walking grandma through the procedure to get her prescription filled if it looks like spending an afternoon getting your license renewed?

            The Chicago Transit Authority is an equally dismal (and much more of a tax leech) example …

            Mew

          • garfieldjl

            Seriously, it is hard to come up with anything worse than Obamacare, it is that bad.

            How many senators does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

            Answer: We still don’t know they are still forming committees, sub-committees, arguing over this that and the other.

          • acat

            This is not the time for a conversation.

            Just with this 35-comment thread has had quite a bit of back-and-forth and some outright argument.

            Now, imagine what happens if Romney releases a plan.

            How many stay focused on replacing Obama, and how many start talking about “the Romney proposal”?

            See the point?

            For reference, conservativemusician linked to Romney’s proposal .. so he does have one. He’s not discussing it …. yet.

            He gets that it’s not time.

            Mew

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