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Why the “great one,” Mark Levin, is finally wrong about something ( Hatch..and Lugar, Snowe MUST be beaten in primaries)

By: gawken (Diary)  |  June 16th, 2011 at 04:01 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Daily Caller has two very interesting stories today. First one reports that Dick Armey’s FREEDOMWORKS has targeted Orrin Hatch for defeat next year. They hope to replicate beating Bob Bennett, and electing Mike Lee. The other piece presents Levin’s semi-scathing indictment of Armey’s motives and reasoning.

Far be it from me to differ with Levin, but in this case, he’s dead wrong. It’s absolutely imperative that we defeat Hatch, and Lugar, and Snowe in the primaries. Here’s why:

The GOP will retake the Senate next year. Heck, even that Dem stalwart, Bob Beckel, has already said so publicly. The only question is how many seats will we gain. Whatever that number, the overall GOP Senate caucus will be more conservative.

Now let’s go back to the 2010 Arizona senate contest. McCain, sensing that the mood of the country was rapidly turning against the Dems, and facing a viable challenger in the primary, immediately began reinventing himself as the second coming of Barry Goldwater.  The self-proclaimed “maverick”…once eager to do a deal with the Dems on immigration reform..excuse me.. amnesty; now positioned himself as standing astride the border fence, sixguns in each hand..singlehandedly the last best hope to keep the illegal hordes from invading the nation.

Yet immediately after winning, McCain began once again to stray off the conservative reservation, opining how we wanted to “do a deal” on immigration. This is McCain’s last term. He will NOT run again. Therefore, he fears not the voters of Arizona. He is a free man..er, a loose cannon..he is accountible to NO ONE, except possibly the editorial writers of the NY Times and the WP. There is absolutely nothing more dangerous on the floor of the Senate than a RINO in his last term…looking to cement his legacy in his own mind.

If Hatch, Lugar, and Snowe are also re-elected, the same will be said of them. It will be the last terms for all of them, and they have the potential to do a tremendous amount of damage to the conservative agenda.

Let’s assume the GOP has healthy gains in the Senate races, and the GOP picks up 8 seats, giving them a 55-45 majority. Hell, let’s say we have a GREAT election, pick up 10 seats, giving the GOP a  57-45 edge. Pretty good. Ya think?

Now, let’s do the math:

McCain + Hatch + Lugar + Snowe + Graham + Collins + Murkowski + Brown + (maybe a Kirk or a Corker) and presto, you have a GOP RINO SQUISH caucus of 8-10 votes on most issues;  that effectively controls the balance ofpower in the US Senate.  Good luck trying to get ANY conservative social agenda items passed.

And because Graham has NO chance of getting reelected , let alone nominated in 2014,  you have 5 HARD votes who will do whatever they choose.  They will make McConnell’s and DeMint’s life miserable. We will have the House, I think we will take the WH, and we will have a Republican controlled Senate that will NOT be responsive to the conservative agenda.

So Mr. Levin, with apologies..you’re dead wrong this time. We must, MUST beat Hatch, Lugar, and Snowe in the primaries.

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  • audax

    …Was in total shock after hearing this on Levins playback. Understand why he did it, but it is really time for some new blood and a more pro-active Senator in that seat. Just because Hatch carried some Conservative water in the past, he also has this desire to reach across the aisle and became a little to chummy with the likes of Ted Kennedy.

    • APA Guy

      NO ONE is beating Lugar here in a primary or general election…I don’t care how noble the conservative ambitions may be. Dick Lugar here is like Kennedy was in MA. Unless he disgraced himself with some sort of nefarious scandal, he will win in a walk and to try to remove him is to waste valuable and scarce resources that could otherwise assist in races in which conservatives can actually win.

      Trying to replace Lugar is a fool’s errand. Let’s be smarter than that, folks.

  • acat

    The 3rd being Snowe.

    You’re just not going to find a Mike Lee or a Marco Rubio or a Jim DeMint in Maine. They do not exist, and if they did, they wouldn’t be electable.*

    Indiana can do better. Utah has proven they can do better.

    Let them do so. Be prepared to let Maine go squishy .. for now.

    Mew

    * normally, I loathe and refuse to use that word because normally it means “I don’t like this person”, i.e. “Hayworth is not electable”, but .. in this case, Generic Conservative from Maine is simply a fiction.

    • gawken

      It will be hard to take out Snowe, but she needs a primary challenger. If nothing else, it will force her to the right..maybe some of it will stick..

      • From ME to You

        it would be a Democrat win!

        LePage won because the Democrats split the vote between a liberal and another liberal!

        Ayuh…I’m from Maine!

    • calvtob14

      Paul LePage, the newly elected governor of Maine, is a true Conservative, and I think if they can give us him, they can definately do better than the women who nearly voted for auful NObamacare

      • silentcal2012

        LePage loves Snowe. This is why these online infatuations are not realistic. A Snowe challenger would be somewhere between Adam Kokesh and Christine O’Donnell, and be nothing but an expensive sideshow.

    • APA Guy

      My account is that of a lifelong Hoosier voter. The only way Lugar loses a race for the senate at this point is if he doesn’t run or is embroiled in a scandal.

      • http://www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com tooncesthecat

        While there is talk about a challenge, no credible challenge materialized 2008 and I don’t see one in 2014, although that’s a long way off. But again, Graham’s major offense if talking to Democrats, not how he actually votes. So although we in South Carolina may not exactly LOVE Lindsay, he’s our Senator and probably will be for as long as he wants to. Thank God for Jim DeMint.and let’s hope the next Republican President appoints Graham o a cabinet postion, as that’s the only real way to get him out of the Senate.

      • Finrod

        Most of my family lives there. None of them know anyone that likes Lugar any more. Sure, Lugar would win in the general, but he’s annoyed enough people in his home state for long enough that a lot of people want him replaced by a Republican that’s as conservative as the state is.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        Not an easy job by any means, but his opponent is very well known and very well respected, has held statewide office and has solid endorsements from the leaders of the Republican party across state.

      • cilfarmer80

        Not saying they will ever run, but couldn’t either take Lugar out in a primary?

        • belcatar

          She has enormous influence in the Maine GOP. She’s also very popular with a lot of people. Paul LePage came out of nowhere to win the Governorship, but that pretty much exhausts all the real conservative ammo the Maine GOP has.

          What we really ought to do is see if we can get rid of Chelie Pingree and Mike Michaud. It’s not likely, but it’s less of a stretch than beating Snowe.

  • http://www.mullinslawoffices.com/ Jim Mullins

    Why are you lumping senators Lugar and Snowe into your criticism of Mark Levin’s endorsement of Senator Hatch? Levin has endorsed Hatch–but not Lugar or Snowe.

    Orrin Hatch has been fighting on the front lines in the Senate for our principles literally longer than I have been alive. Is he perfect? No. Only one perfect man has ever walked this earth. Is he good? Yes.

    Over the course of 35 years in the Senate, Senator Hatch has a 90% lifetime ACU rating. Have there been times where he has not voted the right way? Sure, 10%. However, unlike Amnesty John (Mark Levin strongly supoported J.D Hayworth when many other prominent conservatives would not), Senator Hatch has never sought to be the media darling of the left, tacking to the right only when a primary election looms around the corner.

    Unfortunately, I have a dinner meeting in a few minutes; otherwise, I would go into further detail about why I am proud to stand with Mark Levin in support of Senator Hatch. In the inerim, it would be nice to see your arguments against Senator Hatch separated from your rampant insinuations that (A) Mark Levin supports the other senators mentioned and (B) there’s practically no difference between Senator Hatch and the Maine Soul Sisters.

    • acat

      First, what year was Hatch elected?

      Second, do you accept that all politicians have a sell-by date?

      I’m not going to say anything negative about Hatch’s record. It’s very good, overall. What I’m seeing, though, is that Main Street conservatism has moved forward while Hatch … hasn’t.

      Perhaps it’s time to replace him with a fresh face…

      Mew

    • gawken

      I in no way meant to imply that Levin was endorsing Lugar or Snowe.

      Hatch has not, of late, been as strong a conservative voice as we need. TARP, his unwilingness to go to the mat on some judicial nominatons, and of course, his career ambition to be Ted Kennedy’s BFF…too many wrong votes.

      And he’s old, tired, it’s time for new voices, fresh blood. He is NOT entitled to another term simply because he feels he deserves it because he’s done a pretty good job, in his own mind.

      But there is a huge danger in having a bunch of old-bull GOP senators, all in their last term,..they have shown too often a desire to compromise….to form a “gang” of 6, 7, 14 whatever…which effectively gives them control of the Senate agenda..

    • http://www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com tooncesthecat

      Hatch was one of only 12 Senators with a perfect score by ACU in 2010. So how many more Republican Senators would you toss out of office because they don’t meet some kind of unmeasurable test. Bottom line is he votes the right way. But let’s waste time and resources getting him out of office.

      • jimmyneutron

        how much of this wonderful score is due to the fact that Orrin saw what was happening to Bob B. and was hearing the rumblings coming out about challenging him. I would want to see how he fared over the last 15 – 20 years and I would especially want to see how he voted on key issues as my understanding is that these ‘ratings’ tend to include a lot of nevermind votes that tend to pad the stats.

        • gekster

          http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53352

          VoteSmart has all the info.

        • http://www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com tooncesthecat

          for Hatch is 89.47% Compare that with Olympia Snowe (a true RINO) at 48.39% or party switcher Arlen Specter at 42.17%. On the other hand, blue dog Democrat Ben Nelson also has a 47.01% lifetime rating. Now consider this, Sam Brownback, who is considered ultra-conservative only had a lifetime rating of 93.21% and Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell’s lifetime rating is 89.91%. My point is that Hatch is hardly a RINO based on his voting record, which over his lifetime in the Senate matches favorable with other Republican Senators.. This has more to do with personality, I think, than with actual politics.

          • Bill S

            You are doing exactly what I have been harping on for several years here. Let’s evaluate these folks on their overall records, rather than focusing on a couple of litmus test votes. I am sick and tired of people trotting out TARP every time they want to be pissy about a Republican. At the time TARP came around, there were many, many reputable and solid conservatives who thought it was something that needed to be done. We now have the benefit of hindsight to see that the Democrats twisted it into something it was not meant to be.

            I hope you continue to comment using objective measurements (as flawed as the ACU tends to be…unfortunately, they’re about all we have) when this kind of argument arises.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            They measure a small number of votes in each session and completely ignore whether or not the Member provides aid-and-comfort to the enemy in terms of their leadership on various issues.

            Snowe & Collins frequently vote in a non-conservative fashion. They have yet to do any “real” damage to the party or to conservative causes. They also don’t get out-front on controversial issues, if they do vote against “our” line it’s usually after somebody else with a high profile takes the heat – like Specter.

            Lugar and Hatch frequently work against conservative ideals and both are high profile Senators – as is Graham. They actually damage the cause.

            I’ll take Snowe and Collins over Lugar and Hatch and Graham every day. We can’t do much better in Maine (or Massachusetts) but we can do a whole lot better in Indiana, Utah and SC.

    • Finrod

      IIRC he wanted to give record labels the right to go onto your computer without your permission or knowledge to see if you had any of their music there. That kind of combination of ignorance and stupidity is unforgivable.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Ummmm, nah…

    Hatch, YES! And he can be beaten in Utah in a primary. Just ask Bennett. They have a ready replacement for Orrin, any one of a number of very conservative possibilities. Very doable.

    Lugar. ABSOLUTELY! There is a solid conservative with great name recognition who’s been elected to statewide office. Absolutely doable.

    Graham. I haven’t seen a word about a potential primary opponent. If the conservative wing of the party can’t get together and find an opponent (ala Lugar) Graham will win in a walk.

    Collins & Brown. Not gonna happen. A primary of Collins will not be productive unless we can find a very well known and respected opponent. I’m not in Maine, so I don’t know, but I haven’t heard of any names. A dead bang loser primarying Collins will be a bad move all around. Brown is even worse. He will be a top target for Dems and will need all the money and all the support he can get. We will do no better than Brown and a primary challenge will most likely cost him the general.

    Murkowski. Wanna beat her? Hope Palin moves to Arizona (or at least out of Alaska) and stays out of the next race.

    Primary challenges are ONLY effective if we have an excellent candidate who is well known and backed by conservative leadership in the state. The prime example of this is JD Hayworth v. McCain. McCain could potentially have been taken out in a primary by Shadegg or Flake. Both are well known and are respected by the voters and could rally conservative leaders in the state. JD is very well known and generally regarded by most as a buffoon and a jerk. McCain didn’t need to spend any money to beat JD, but he spent something like $20MM to make sure we all remembered JD at his worst. He could do that because he needed to spend about $4.00 to win the general (he spent less than $500K). Graham is certainly in the same class.

  • http://www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com tooncesthecat

    You should check your facts first before posting. Utah chooses its nominees through a “Caucus-Convention” system., The Republican state convention, consisting of delegates chosen at precinct and then county conventions will select the nominee. This system reinforces party membership and loyalty and is much closer to the original intent of the founders than the open primary system used by most states. If Hatch is defeated, it will be because he doesn’t have the support of Utah’s Republican party activists. That’s what happened to Bennett last time.

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      Utah has a primary if one of the candidates fails to reach a specific level in the caucus. I think it’s 60%. Failing the magic level, the top two have a run off which happened last cycle.

      • http://www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com tooncesthecat

        There was a state-wide primary following the convention between Mike Lee and Tim Bridgewater, because Lee didn’t get 60% of the votes of convention delegates. You can rest assured, however, that had Bennett polled in second place the Bridgewater delegates would have swung to Lee in order to give him 60% of the convention votes and the nomination.

        My point is that Utah doesn’t choose its nominees like other states, in which candidates file for election and then meet each other head-to-head in a primary in which the voters decide. In Utah, the state convention decides who the nominee will be or failing that who the two candidates will be that the voters choose between. Hatch won’t be defeated in a primary. If he is defeated, it will be at the State Convention, like Bennett.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          I like there system a lot. But in fact, you noted “Utah doesn’t have a primary” when they might, depending on the outcome of the caucus.

  • BlackRedneck1

    It the words of Janet Jackson: “What have you done for me lately?”

    If any republican is not fully committed to repealing Obamacare and advancing the conservative agenda, then they should be primaried. If any republican is not prepared to go all Nancy-Pelosi on your political opponents, then stay home, we don’t need you!

  • dbkohl

    Being a life-long Buckeye, I am very ignorant of the internal political workings of the states represented by those Senators. I speak only in generic terms of the region and general repuation of the state as a whole.

    I understand all three of these senators to be exceptionally popular in thier own state. Utah and Indiana could elect a conservative IF they defeat the incumbant in the primary. Maine, however I am concerned about. Is there a strong enough conservative base in Maine to knock off Snowe in the primary? And if so, would that GOP nominee be able to win in November?

    I just don’t want to see us lose a seat or 2 due to biting off more than we can chew.

  • e_rowe

    But if you’re against him on this, you’re against him on a lot of things. This kind of move trying to preserve the status quo of the GOP against a take over from the Old Right is typical of Levin.

    You should have seen the article of Levin’s that Erickson posted here a couple months ago where Levin made an utter fool of himself trying to argue against Tom Woods on whether or not the President can go to war without Congress’s approval. It was like a work of satire.

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      Most of the time he’s a self-serving blow-hard. Like this time.

    • aesthete

      Even though I peripherally agreed with him (or rather, with John Woo) from a legal standpoint, Levin made a fool of himself in that debate.

  • glorious

    that’s all I have to say

  • gawken

    He proved my point. He spent the segment lecturing the entire GOP field as to how they are ALL WRONG about Libya and Afghanistan…giving Obama cover..all but saying that you can’t question a president’s foreign policy.

    Again..for the rest of his last term..he’s off the reservation..free to go where ever he wants..