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U.S. Senate endorsement for Virginia — Part 1 of 2: The Case Against George Allen.

By: Griffin@griffinelection (Diary)  |  August 17th, 2011 at 08:22 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

At first glance, George Allen is the logical choice for the open Senate race in 2012.  He is a fun-loving former Senator that never would have lost his seat in 2006 were it not for neo-conservatives and un-funded wars.  On second glance, George Allen was one of the Republicans that became so focused on “terrorists” in an overseas desert, that he forgot about other principals and important American issues.  Does George Allen deserve a second chance?  No.  He doesn’t.  But if not George Allen, then who?  

I was initially very skeptical of a “tea party” candidate running for a U.S. Senate seat in Virginia.  It is very difficult to trust an important political office to someone that has never held political office before.  However, that is exactly where Virginians should get to.  We can do better than George Allen.

George Allen was a successful Governor and Senator in the past.  He was decently conservative and has high name recognition.  He was someone I felt I could tolerate in the Senate.  Overall, George Allen is a very likeable politician.  Plus he has the best selling book, “what sports and politics have in common,” which although I haven’t gotten to read it yet, I am sure is very compelling. 

But, this past week has given me an epiphany due to the debt ceiling debate.  I look back at the last week of debt ceiling negotiations.  Look at what happened.  I look at where Senators that I look up to like Mike Lee and Rand Paul are and I looked at establishment Senators like Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid.  I did not want this debt deal.  But Mark Warner and Jim Webb from Virginia voted for it anyways.  Would George Allen have voted differently?  Recently, a George Allen supporter publicly claimed that he was “the original tea party candidate.”  Its almost laughable.  George Allen is a Republican copy of Mark Warner.  Neither take unpopular stands but always follows leadership over a cliff.  Both have moist pointer fingers from testing the direction the wind is blowing.

Do Virginians want another six years of George Allen?  Would George Allen would have opposed Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid working in tandem with Obama to undercut the conservative wing of the House GOP?  The answer is of course, yes, George Allen would follow Mitch McConnell wherever he would go.  He is establishment through and through.

At this point, the Republican establishment is more harmful to our party than the Democrats or President Obama himself.  If the House conservatives had been in charge last week, we would be in the middle of a debt ceiling show down right now and President Obama would have to give in and pull 10 democrat senators to vote for something akin to Cut, Cap, and Balance in order to save his re-election and his legacy.

George Allen along with other Establishment Neo-Con Republicans would have unequivocally, without a doubt gone along with the deal.  He would have said what Paul Ryan said, that we got “two thirds of what we wanted.”  He would’ve repeated what McConnell said, that “we aren’t going to let our nation default for the first time in blah, blah, blah…”, George Allen was the perfect establishment Republican.  He had center-right views on education, spending, social issues, and defense.  Actually, he was more of a hawk on defense which is  very dangerous.  We need conservatives on defense, not neo-conservatives.  George Allen’s center right Republican views that got us into two unfunded wars, the patriot act, four debt ceiling increases, etc.  This is what George Allen represents .  Virginia should not have to go back to that, we can do better than George Allen and we can certainly do better than Tim Kaine who is more boring than Tim Pawlenty.  We can do better.

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  • Scope

    but I am falling asleep and will respond more tomorrow.

    • mikeymike143

      they have a certain stench about them. i think the owner of this diary should go back to his code pink site where his comments about warmongering neocon republicans would fit right in.

      • Scope

        This guy doesn’t say it, but you can read between the lines and know that he is pushing for Jamie Radtke, the only real true Tea Party candidate. After all, she did hold the largest Tea Party rally, featuring Ron Paul as the main speaker.

        As a VA resident, I’m not terribly worried about Radtke, as she has raised almost no money at all. She recently put out a notice to her supporters that they needed to donate to her campaign so she could rent a bus, have a wrap put on it, and she would use it to campaign throughout the state. I don’t think she raised the money needed. Radtke is still polling in the low single digits here, and Allen I think broke 50%. He’s also raised millions for his campaign. There are a few other candidates that have almost all polled above Radtke, but way far behind George Allen.

        George Allen will be the next Republican Senator from VA.

        • griffinelection

          Hey everyone,

          Thank you for your responses.
          I do support Jaime Radtke for Senate. She is one of us and has the support of the grassroots. She is the former leader of the tea party in Richmond and has done more work for the grassroots than I can post on this site. George Allen is not the worst senator ever but we can do way better than him.

          I do support Radtke over Allen for Senate.

          The editor of Redstate Virginia also supports Radtke for Senate.

          Erick Erickson also supports Radtke for Senate.

          The grassroots in Virginia is strong and we are going up against the establishment to get Jim DeMint conservatives in the senate instead of Mitch McConnell senators. Allen is a McConnell guy.

          http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/01/24/george-allens-problem/

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Sounds shady to me, since RedState.com has no state sites.

            And Radtke is a flake.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            You’re seriously linking to a 7 month old post?

            Heh.

          • mikeymike143

            that redstate virginia you try to use as a source has nothing to do with this redstate. nice try though. LOL. that redstate is a tiny insiginficant left/libertarian leaning website whose front page features an article slamming the GOP and also has a feature article on how states can use gold as currency when the federal reserve fails.

            and the editor of that fringe webpage whose endorsement you brag about for radke is a full blown paulbot whose last editorial was callled ”Ron Paul Wins Debate by Telling Iowans and America the Truth”. oh, and in case you didnt know this, ron paul and his looney paulbots are considered lower than pond scum by the vast majority of us on this site.

            by the way, this is a site for conservative republicans, not anti war left/libertarians that claim to be conservative. but you might try posting on huff po next time, you will probably fit in better there.

            and here is a true fact for you. ron paul ran in the republican primary for president in 2008. he got 5% of the vote. that means that 19 out of 20 primary voters rejected that loser. george allen will win in the primary by a similar landslide over radke,

          • Scope

            Griffin wrote another diary here slamming Allen for an old opinion on abortion, and berates him because he never did anything while in the Senate to stop abortions. Radtke has said that she is personally pro-life, but yet, she is a part of a larger orginization that believes that it is all about individual liberty, and that each have the right to chose whatever they want to do with their bodies, including having abortions. So Radtke comes down on the side pf pro-life, but, once in the Senate what would she do to stop abortions? Nothing, because the group she belongs to thinks it is a personal choice. Yet he slams Allen because in the Senate, he didn’t stop abortions.

            Another great example of the hypocrisy of the Paulies was when Ron Paul did his whole Iowa schtic about being pro-life yada yada, which was nothing more than pandering to the Iowans because they are strong on social issues. Yet he also thinks it’s a personal choice and would never do anything to stop abortions. After all, it’s all about personal choice, and personal freedom to do what you will with your body, including aborting a child, because that child is a part of a woman’s body.

            I would say that Radtke is as dangerous as the Paulinians, but, she will never get the chance to do anything about it. She is nothing more than an annoying fly buzzing around Allen’s head.

          • acat

            It’s a valid position, but it indicates that the issue just doesn’t matter, and may be traded for political baubles and beads.

            If abortion did matter to the candidate, it wouldn’t be given the “go away kid, you bother me” treatment, eh?

            The Paulistines are less dangerous .. on this particular issue, at least.

            Mew

        • rkcon

          Your act is getting old. You try to paint any real Tea Party conservative that opposes your RINO/Bushies establishment types like George Allen (a guy who voted for every item of Bush big government agenda during his first stint in DC).

          Allen was first elected for congress in 1991. He stayed in government for 15 freaking years. For you guys it’s never enough, is it? Time for Georgie to find a job in the private sector and allow true conservatives to implement conservative policies. He had his chance and failed miserably.

  • griffinelection

    Excuse me, redstate virginia is a group of Virginian conservatives that cross post on this site and others.

    http://redstatevirginia.com/about-red-state-virginia/

  • griffinelection

    Excuse me, redstate virginia is a group of Virginian conservatives that cross post on this site and others. That term is not affiliated with this site.

    http://redstatevirginia.com/about-red-state-virginia/

  • griffinelection

    I realize that you cannot rebut my arguments on either George Allen’s questionable abortion beliefs, but talking about other Congressmen and presidential candidates is unrelated to this discussion.

    Please tell me why it is ok to own stock in the company that makes chemical abortion pills.

    • acat

      You’ve a history of half-truths and confusion above, y’see…

      Mew

      • rkcon

        Tea Partiers in Virginia will surely stand for someone else than this enabler of big government and Bush socialist agenda.

        • Scope

          of winning the senate seat. In fact she has less chance of winning than Buddy Romer has of winning the presidency.

    • Scope

      on the merits of your trying make make George Allen out to be the baby killer incarnate.

      George Allen has a 100% rating from the National Right to Life Committee, because, during his 6 years in the Senate, he voted for the partial birth abortion ban act, the unborn victims of violence act, to ban embroyonic stem cell research, and to affirm the Mexico City policy, which prevents taxpayer funding of abortions abroad. Conversley he earned a 0% from NARAL Pro-Choice America. While Governor of VA, he signed legislation that required parents or other care-takers to be notified before anyone under 18 receives an abortion. That bill was fought against hard and heavy by the Democrats, but Allen steered it through to a victory.

      Now, tell me again how George Allen did nothing to stop abortions while he was in the Senate. Please keep in mind, if you have forgotten, there are 99 other Senators voting, and Allen is only one of those votes.

      There’s your rebuttal on the merits. Now, since Radtke is running for the same seat that Allen is, what record does she have in any elective office to show how she would vote if she won the seat? You see, she doesn’t have any record, because she has decided to try to jump to the top rung of the ladder, and to go directly to Washington, while by-passing working her way up the ladder in any local or state elections. All anyone has is what she says. You are here promoting Radtke, so talking about Radtke here is not unrelated to the discussion. That’s a deflection on your part.

      I think your strong statements about Allen with respect to abortion, doesn’t really reflect a deep interest in supporting life, as much as it being a weak attack on George Allen, that is backfiring badly. Again, if you are so ardently pro-life, why would you support a candidate, that is a part of a group that supports the idea that it is a women’s choice, because her body is her’s to do with as she chooses?

      acat- There was an article in that wonderful bastion of Conservatism, the WaPo, which denigrated Allen for owning stock in a company called Barr Laboratories. Barr is based out of NY, and has a plant in southern VA. Allen bought stock in the company in 2004, and has not agreed to sell it, as they are leaders in efforts to fight breast cancer. So, yes they make the morning-after pill, but it isn’t there only product. This is like the Democrats going after the judge in LA, that ruled to lift the ban on oil drilling, because he previously owned stock in an oil company.

      I must still go back to these stats-

      Allen- 68%
      Radtke-6%

      Radtke knows darn well that she has no chance, however, she is using a Senate campaign just to promote a message, which is very similar to what Ron Paul is doing with his presidential run, that is when Radtke actually talks about any thing other than how awful George Allen is, which is rare.

      • acat

        Yes, it can be challenging to find companies of any size that don’t have some objectionable products … doubly so when the Lefties use their overreaching definitions of “relatedness”.

        I can see why Allen would own stock in a company doing business in Virginia, and it’s much esaier to influence a company *as a part-owner* than as an outsider… a “community organizer”, if you will.

        The other point that bears repeating is that RedState is not affiliated in any way with redstate virginia .. just as Ron Paul is not the founder of the Tea Parties.

        Mew

      • alkmetro

        It appears that you are just biased, because Jaime has REAL ideas and a REAL committment to the Constitution. She is NOT another Rhino. She actally means what she says. Wake up before it is toooo late!

        • Scope

          this is the perfect example of a Ron Pauley type of post, that has turned most people from even looking at Paul. Paul may have some good ideas, that some would actually like to get behind, however, it is the Paul type supporters, such as your post indicates, that have turned most from even considering him. I’ve read more posts in the last few days where people were willing to give him a second look, but backed away because of the rudeness of the Paul supporters.

          There is this thing about Paul/Radtke supporters that if you don’t support Paul/Radtke you are a bigot, neo-con, freedom hating person. You proudly say that Radtke is the only REAL conservative, based on nothing more than “what she said.” You take a persons word, over any experience, record, or even her negative campaign as ver boten.

          Your type of post is not only the reason why Ron Paul will lose big time, but also why Radtke will lose big time also. Her supporters are just as deadly to her campaign, as she has been deadly to her own campaign. The Paul/Radtke campaigns have adopted the liberal Alinsky approach in trying to tear down their opponents, with redicule and personal destruction. It has been noted by most Virginians, with respect to Radtke, and, it has been well noted amongst the American electorate that trying to tear down your opponents, while leaving the present Obama administration unscathed is a very very bad policy, and has been rejected soundly. Obviously Paul and Radtke have no other path to victory.

  • griffinelection

    I really appreciate you taking the time to address my post on the merits.

    First, at the beginning of my article I speak about Allen’s 0% NARAL rating and his 100% NLRC rating. I give him credit for that. My article was not, “George Allen is a pro-abort,” instead, I indicated that he wouldn’t really fight for life when it was difficult and that bothered me. But a 100% NLRC doesn’t indicate that you are 100% pro-life.

    I believe that the budget, defense, and all of the other issues going on, are of extreme important. But the issue of life is more important than anything else. I am a Virginia voter and that is why I am being hard on George Allen–because he wants to represent me. I want someone who is introducing bills in committee to protect the innocent not someone who is simply voting the party line on life. I want someone strong on this issue. The partial-birth abortion ban was a good bill, but it didn’t save one life as it did nothing to stop 9-month abortion, it simply banned one procedure for doing it.

    Whether we agree or disagree on Barr labs, it is a conflict of interest and it shows something deeply about Allen personally and his convictions.

    Radtke vs. Allen is a primary. I have not advocated that you vote for Kaine over Allen. I simply want the best candidate to win the primary and I don’t believe that it is Allen. So if you are right and Allen wins then we will be having a more pro-Allen conversation but the primary is what we are discussing.

    This is my state (commonwealth) and I am going to work to make sure we get people that are going to vote for what’s right rather than what Mitch McConnell says. Most polls I have seen have Allen with a 2-1 advantage over Radtke and we are 10 months out from the primary. Radtke has widespread support with the grassroots, the people that knock on doors in the rain and this race is going to heat up and be a national primary.

    Thanks again for the reasoned response.

    • acat

      rather than attacking Allen with half-truths and “mind reading”…

      Again, owning stock in a company *doing business in Virginia* is not, to this cat, indicative of a weakness in Allen’s anti-abortion stance, and that seems to be the strongest part in your argument.

      There’s a point to be made that Radtke is a “young gun” – rwm52 made the point for you – as opposed to Allen’s “old guard”, but .. I’d like to see some actual record, not just rhetoric.

      Of course, I’m not in Virginia….

      Mew

      • alkmetro

        Try looking into her record.She has challenged Republicans to stick to the Constitution all her adult life. She charged up the tea party! She is strong, intelligent and committed to the USA! She is FOR term limits, She is FOR congress living with the same benefits we all live with, She is FOR the reduction in spending and living within our means. She is FOR all of the things conservatives profess. George has had his run. He has a record of many mistakes..He poked the holes in the boat, now you want him to plug them? I think NOT

        • Scope

          You actually have the nerve to put what Radtke “said” against a proven record? Are you really serious? Even the best shills can do better than that. If you are a Radtke campaign person, she really needs to look for better help.

    • Scope

      You say that Allen only voted the way he did because he was voting along party lines, but he wouldn’t be there if it became more difficult. You want someone who will introduce legislation that will protect life. Now again, I have to go back to my argument that Radtke is a Ron Paul vetted and approved candidate, no? I understand that Ron Paul is personally pro-life, but, it is his position of total personal freedom to choose for ones self, which includes being pro-choice if that is the person’s personal position. Radtke is also personally pro-life, but, obviously follows the position that most social issues belong at the state level. Sp what would Radtke do at the federal level to promote pro-life, other than not using taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions?

      Until Roe v Wade is overturned (not likely any time soon), or there is some sort of constitutional amendment passed, through all the chains, to outlaw all abortions, what exactly can any one in the Senate do in favor of protecting life, that is meaningful and far reaching? The SC ruling made abortions legal, and no state can therefore pass any laws that abridge that so-called “right.”

      There may be a much better chance of getting closer to more meaningful and constitutional lawmaking, if those running as Republicans can gain the WH, and both houses in 2012. The reality is, in some cases unfortunate, is that we cannot gain those majorities with people who have proven, after running for office now for more than 8 months, and not gaining much if any support, can not make that majority a reality. No one ever promised that within one election cycle, that we will have much if any say in the direction of the country, and in fact our survival from the Obama destruction. Many that have been aware that it will take more like 2 or 3 election cycles to turn the bus around, and to get it out of the ditch, so to speak.

      Allen is the best shot we have at winning the senate seat back from a Democrat. Favoring whose principles we agree with, rather than winning the majorities when it is so critical that we do, is what is necessary in this election, that means the entire country either sinks or swims. Allen is not perfect, no candidate ever is, however, he was not a Mike Castle or a Dick Lugar. Radtke is very young, and has many years of being involved in an elective position with government. Being such a fan of Radtke as you are, you would do much better to ask/advise her to run for a local or state office first, to gain the much needed experience. At the very least, you could also ask that she run a positive campaign, talking about her visions, goals, positions on all the issues, and what experience she has to offer to qualify as a US Senator. It is a rookie mistake to run a campaign as nothing more than the politics of personal destruction against her opponent. It turns many seasoned voters off, and makes that person appear to have no valid plan of their own. As I’ve said before, she would do herself some favors by not trying to jump to the high rung on the ladder, before proving that she is worthy of that seat, and proving her electability with a win in a lower office. Here in VA, my home state also, many many are very turned off by her constant attacks on Allen, and with you doing the same, you are doing nothing to help her.

      • acat

        The action to reduce and eliminate abortion will start and be mostly fought at the State level.

        Virginia is a battleground on the licensing and inspection of abortion clinics as medical facilities, a very good step in the right direction. It’s expensive to maintain a surgical suite, after all, so … follow the money.

        My point is, Allen is a better, more seasoned candidate, who will hold the line in D.C.. He may not run with the ball, but .. again, in D.C., that’s unusual, like a linebacker catching an errant pass and running with it; something that happens rarely enough that it makes the recap.

        In the meantime, if Ms. Radtke wishes to fight abortion, she’d do well to run for the Virginia General Assembly and start pushing the issue in that august institution. That’s where the front lines are at, after all.

        Mew

        • Scope

          What can the states accomplish while Roe v Wade is still the law? That’s my argument, what can states do to fight abortion? The SC gave the county a legal opinion/law that states do not have the right to fight against banning abotion.

          My question to griffin has been about just what anyone elected to the Senate can do to change the law. It is a worthy goal for the feds to honor life from conception to natural death, but, unless and until the SC decision is overturned, it forces the change onto the feds, and not the state. No? Roe v Wade forced any state decision against states rights, No? What do you think can be a solution to a SC decision that removed any state right positions? Constitutional Amendment, or what? The states are currently not in control of the law.

          I love the descision by our attorney general in requiring that abortion clinics must meet health standards, but, North Carolina is not a big drive away. It really is a help, but it is not the panecea (sp).

          • acat

            I once thought as you do that the win will happen at the Federal level first. I have become convinced, however, that the Federal behemoth won’t move an inch until the States have already made a Federal level change all but moot.

            Pennsylvania and Virginia have successfully – correct me if I’m wrong – won a victory by forcing abortion clinics to act like professional medical providers. This doesn’t stop abortions at the State level either, but it does force those who go into the business of providing abortions to spend money. Any money used to properly clean and certify a surgical suite is money not available for advertising or lobbying.

            That makes it easier for our side to push the State legislature to require things like parental notification, mandatory counseling, mandatory waiting periods, grief counseling for those who have chosen to have abortions in the past (the victims aren’t just the ones killed) and similar programs to help reduce – not eliminate, but reduce – the number of abortions performed. Also, look at the Indiana actions regarding Planned Parenthood and see if Virginia could copy it.

            Many clinics operate as for-profit businesses, so cutting into their budget by raising the expense and lowering the turnover of customers will drive them under, as sure as the buggy whip makers went under. It’s not fast, and it’s not as appealing emotionally as the big federal win – and we can’t for a minute let up pressure in D.C. or they’ll try and move the ball – but the small steps are what make up the journey.

            I forget which southern State it is, but .. there are very few abortion clinics – they simply can’t make a profit because the cost of doing business is so high.

            Follow – and cut off – the money, while concurrently raising the cost, drive them out of business or soak up money otherwise used for lobbying and, in the end, we win.

            Mew

          • runner12

            There is no doubt that the state strategy has been the most effective strategy against abortion. In my opinion, groups like AUL have combined this strategy with journalistic activism and reshaped the abortion debate in this country. The taking down of PP in the media was a stroke of genius.

            I won’t rehash what acat spelled out, but all of what he said the states are doing has been remarkably successful. In essence, we are outsmarting the pro-choice crowd and winning the fight to end abortion.

            These are small steps that will lead up to the repeal of Roe. But these battles must be won at the states first that will hopefully lead to the end of abortion in the US.

  • rightwingmom52

    I like George Allen and think he got a raw deal over the macaca deal, but I was impressed with Jamie Radtke at RSG03. Given a choice, I prefer the fresh young guns.

  • barleycorn

    “George Allen

  • Scope

    and he is spouting the same kind of stuff that Jamie Radtke is. Radtke has been vetted and approved of by the Ron Paul organization. Radtke has absolutely no experience at all whatsoever. No, let me correct that. Radtke worked as a receptionist for George Allen, until she threw him under the bus, and then went out and did everything she could to trash him.

    A Senate seat is not exactly where one should go with training wheels. Radtke has never run for any other office, not even local or state office.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    1. Calling George Allen a Neocon is just idiotic.

    2. If you can’t even bother to name a candidate you are supporting, then why should we care what you have to say about any candidate at all?

  • Scope

    Ron Paul’s positions, then by all means Radtke is the candidate.

  • kinghenry

    …of the GOP and Conservatives simply ignoring Ron Paul the past 4 plus years when we should’ve called a spade a spade, exposed who he is to the public and blackballed him out of the GOP. Just like Buckley and company did with Paul’s idol, Rothbard and the Birch Society.

    They’ve got money and an email list, they are using C4L similar to how the left uses Moveon.org, blasting out emails and trashing true Conservatives and LYING along the way.

    I really wish the MSM would treat Paul as a “First Tier” candidate, and really look at his record and past and come out firing at him. If they would do that, just give him a little bit of the Sarah Palin treatment, we wouldn’t have to deal much with this fool any longer.

  • Scope

    he is leaving a trail of Paulbots behind him, like the young recent graduate who has now posted diary after diary attacking Republicans/conservatives, but not saying much about Obama or his liberals.

    Funny thing is, the Paulbots are crying because Paul doesn’t get enough media attention. During the week that Fox broadcast from Iowa, and especially on straw poll day, I saw Paul’s mug on Fox far more than any of the other candidates. It literally got to the point that I turned to DYI because I was sick of seeing him constantly. Bachmann won the poll, and Pawlenty dropped out of the race, and Perry got into the race all in the same time period. There was other big news to cover, but, Paul and his cultists wanted to have all the attention as though he was just crowned with some big achievement.

    Then you see another headline on Drudge that Paul is now considered “mainstream.” So Paul and his buddies want him to be considered mainstream, even though he and his buddies are campaigning as him not the mainstream status quo that all of the other candidates are. They don’t know what they want, but they just want something, and attention seems to be what it is.

    You are so right when you say this guy should have been marginalized 4 years ago. Problem was that no one took him or his kids supporting him seriously. In the meantime he takes his million dollar money bomb money, much of it from Google by the way, and start recruiting the under 25′s to decide who will win the election, even if it means just taking enough votes away from our nominee to give Obama 4 more years.

    Thankfully I am starting to see more articles coming straight out and warning about just how dangerous this man and his R3volution really is for this country.

  • rightwingmom52

    and I’ve got plenty of comments here to prove it. However, based on Erick’s suggestion alone here, I’m willing to keep an open mind about candidates and find out what their positions are. If Radtke is indeed aligned with Paul or endorses the same positions as he does, that’s all I need to know. But I don’t know that yet.

    By the way, I donated to Allen’s campaign last time he ran, and I still get his updates. What I should have said is that all things being equal, I would probably opt for the young guns, but even that depends on which race is in question. For instance, I would not support a run against Sen. Sessions here in Alabama even though he’s been around a while. I actually think we need to keep a few reps in office who know how the process works, preferably those like DeMint and Sessions..