First off, let me be clear. I am a big fan of Governor Chris Christie. From his win over Jon Corzine, to his union busting and fiscal sanity, I have been proud to have him as A leader of my party. However, I would not be proud to have him as THE leader of my party and hope that he sticks with his promise to not run for the presidency.
The reason is simple. I am a social conservative and he is not. And that is ok, I don’t expect him to run as a social conservative in New Jersey, that would be stupid. But to run as a social moderate in this election is also stupid. I realize that he has socially conservative values compared to others in New York and New Jersey, but those views are liberal down here in the South. Not only would his presidency not benefit conservatives that care about the life of the unborn and other issues dear to us – it would probably put our winning the election in jeopardy as evangelicals are not going to turn out for a Chris Christie/Mitt Romney/John McCain/Bob Dole like they turn out for a George W. Bush or a Ronald Reagan. It hasn’t been their pattern. I am one of those evangelicals and from being involved in this community; I can tell you that most of us care about life, marriage and defending religious liberties more than anything else.
The truth is that in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina, like it or not, election day will be a busy day for them. Their kids will need to get to school, football practice, and dance recitals. Dinner will have to be made; they will have to get to work. Many Americans are going to prioritize those concerns over a moderate republican candidacy that they know good and well will never address their issues. Karl Rove knew that if you locked in evangelicals you won, if you didn’t you lost. It isn’t only about getting these people to the polls, it is about getting them talking up their candidate, it is about knocking on doors in the cold. It is about having a candidate that so excites the ENTIRE base that independents want to jump on board to.
Governor Christie is a good guy with great fiscal bona fides. He will likely present a good foreign policy viewpoint as well. But his views on abortion and marriage will not likely stand up. I, like many evangelical Christians, cannot understand how one can be personally against abortion, believing it to be murder, yet for the practice, in the policy sense because other people should have that right. We don’t simply want someone that will espouse our viewpoint in a republican debate, we want a true believer that really wants to work towards ending abortion in this country. We don’t want someone who thinks it’s good enough to campaign about partial birth abortion, while leaving other nine-month abortion practices legal. These types of tricks do nothing to stop abortions.
If we are looking for a Romney alternative – Christie is not it. He is much better. But he is not it. We need someone that can unite the three legs of the party.
We need a fiscal conservative that believes in smaller government, open markets and lower taxes who can foster job creation in the free market.
We need a foreign policy conservative that inspires people to believe that America can make a difference in the world for good and that our government can protect us from threats both foreign and domestic. This candidate must also be able to deal with immigration and protect the people that are here and show them that republicans represent them, while also protecting the future of our borders and Anglo culture.
And finally, although it may not be as glamorous as other positions, we need a social conservative that believes that governance begins with the proper family structure of one man and one woman and that we should encourage less divorce, more adoption, and marriage between a man and a woman – and that we should push to make this the law of the land in every state. And above all, our candidate must always be willing to fight for those that cannot defend themselves. In the Bible, Yahweh’s heart is revealed to us. God cares about the widows and the orphans. He cares about those who cannot protect themselves. We need someone that believes in life unequivocally. That from conception, people are made in the image of God and that the 14th Amendment protects human life and allows the President and Congress to protect humans as well, no matter what half the Supreme Court dictates to us, we need someone that believes that no one deserves to be put to death even if their conception came about by the evil act of rape by another.
Christie isn’t that guy. However, if we have someone that is strong on all of these things, not even the 2008 Barack Obama full of hope and promise and without a record could beat our guy (or gal). That is what we should be aiming for.
Conservatism is nothing if we abandon the issues important to our conservative friends within our party in order to accomplish our goals. There are conservative issues that I don’t care as much about, but I don’t ask my conservative friends to put aside their views for me, we must act as one party. We must work together for everyone’s mutual benefit. If we do that, with the right candidate, we will win.
Jeff Emanuel
Neil Stevens
Rush says Christie would
freentn Wednesday, September 28th at 9:24AM EDT (link)take votes away from romney and that would be a good thing.
But if Ann Coulter is any judge it sounds like he will not run.
Some social "conservatives" need to be kicked out of the party
rkcon Wednesday, September 28th at 10:22AM EDT (link)Just like Buckley, Kirk, Goldwater spent some time purging the party out of the Burchers, there is a faction of social conservatives that is hurting conservatism more than it helps.
This people dont’ really understand what conservatism, as a philosophy of government, is about (hint: it’s about protecting your world-views from the interventionism of the government) and politically they’re closer to the old school continental European conservatism of DeMaistre, Maurras and others than to any type of American/anglo-saxon .
More importantly, these people want their politicians to be like their ministers and talk-show hosts. They want to identify with them and policy takes a secondary spot. That’s why we end up with a socialist like Bush – he talked a lot about faith, abortion and gays, so he was great!
The idea that Chris Christie isn’t a conservative because of his stance in social issues laughable. “We need someone that believes in life unequivocally”?
From the papers:
Gov. Chris Christie backs anti-abortion activists, says ‘every life is precious and a gift from God’
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/anti-abortion_rally_marks_roe.html
Christie Veto Shuts Down Abortion Clinics in NJ
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/247495/christie-veto-shuts-down-abortion-clinics-nj-daniel-foster
Christie isn’t that guy?
The problem with Christie is that he isnt’ a firebrand about social issues like, say, Bachmann. He won’t organize public prays like Perry. Even though in terms of policy he’s probably more accomplished than those two in regards to pro-life issues. But for some social conservatives, that doesn’t really matter.
This reminds me of social conservatives not liking Mitch Daniels, probably the most successful governor in the modern story of the United States from a social issues perspective, because of his obvious statements about how we need to focus on fiscal issues. These people don’t really care about policy results; they care about having an advocate that will talk loud for them. To them politics is, above everything, an arena. An arena for a cultural war. So they want “warriors” more than anything. But that’s a deeply unconservative position. Deeply.
According to these lunatics, the GOP will never have another national candidate coming out of the South because that’s basically the only place where the type of social conservatives they like – loud, strident – can have success state wide. They’d never vote for Reagan considering his record on social issues.
Some social conservatives that make politics an arena for culture wars and dont’ think that Christie’s position and record in abortion – please, read the links – is good enough and, on the other hand, would enthusiastically support big government socialists like Bush or Huckabee, need to be kicked out of this party, like the Birchers were. For the sake of the Country.
rkcon, I agree that there are
lineholder (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 11:15AM EDT (link)social conservatives who tend to support government intervention as a means to resolving social issues. This type of action is in opposition to the principles of conservatism that you’ve referenced. There are conservatives at this site who are social conservatives AND support limited government. I am one of them.
I am also a Christian. So I can’t say that I particularly like or agree with the subtly derogatory comments you’ve made about people of faith, because there is a subtle derogatory reference to people of faith.
For those of us who support the Judeo-Christian principles on which our nation was founded, the value of life is high on our list of priorities. We do not want a government that implements policies that undermine the value of human life. We do not want a government that attempts to use policy to define how or what ways the value of one human being’s might be greater than the value of any other human being’s life. (Such as what we would begin to see under PPACA via IPAB). Therefore, we attempt to fight for limited intervention and limited scope of governmental power where such issues are concerned.
You may not like us or respect us, but we do serve a purpose within this society, rkcon.
That's slightly paranoid, isn't it dear?
rkcon Wednesday, September 28th at 12:03PM EDT (link)I am a Christian too. I am VERY socially conservative. And there’s nobody in this site who is more pro-life as me. And few have spent so many time and money working in pro-life causes.
So, I don’t think you were able to comprehend my post. At all. Maybe you should re-read it.
Basically what I’m saying is that a faction of socons are what Russell Kirk called “chirping sectaries”. Plus, that they really care for substance and policy; they’re more about tone and style. They prefer someone who talks louder about their pet causes than someone who actually accomplishes things policy wise. They see politics as another space to vent their emotions. They have a deeply disturbed understanding of what politics are about. A disturbing one too. Some of them are Christian, I bet some of them belong to some other faith. That’s COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. I’m not talking about religion here.
Anyone who thinks Christie’s position on life is not conservative is crazy (note as the OP doesn’t even bother to mention Christie’s positions at all). If you agree with that, you’re crazy too. And conservatives and the GOP don’t need crazy now as we didn’t need crazy when we ran with the Birchers out of the movement. It’s a simple as that.
Attention, rkcon
Bill S (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 12:38PM EDT (link)You need to tone it down. Stop with the accusations and insults. The fact that not all social conservatives agree with your particular angle on this topic does not make them “lunatics” or “crazy”, and the fact that the other commenter disagrees with you does not imply that he “did not comprehend”.
This is not a suggestion to you. It is a requirement.
Mgmt.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
All right
rkcon Wednesday, September 28th at 3:19PM EDT (link)I can live with those new standards in this website.
I’d like lineholder to re-read my post anyway, because he replied to something I absolutely not wrote; and I obviously believe that, like Birchers, some so-callled social conservatives do the conservative movement more harm than good and need to be kicked out. I apologize for less civil terms I may have applied to convey these ideas.
Bill S., is an accusation of lying enough? See downthread. nt
Melody Warbington (rwm52) (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 7:00PM EDT (link)…
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. (John 4:25)
No RWM it isn't enough
Scope (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 7:11PM EDT (link)Would you have ever believed that posts like rkcon’s would be any where acceptable before the nicer and gentler days at RS? Seems that nicer and gentler mean’s hey have at it. How much you want to bet if any of us that have been here awhile posted the crap that this creep does, we would be warned? I don’t know about you but I feel like much has gone far out of control. Isn’t that the kind of stuff the DailyKos people post. Geez I want some sort of control here. I know, hit the contacts page. No thanks.
rkcon, for the record, I agree with lineholder.
Melody Warbington (rwm52) (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 1:38PM EDT (link)Further, my issues with Christie have nothing to do with his position on right to life. Rather it’s his positions on global warming, banning any new coal from NJ, appointing the former legal defense for the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood with ties to Hamas to the NJ Superior Court – just for starters.
Now go ahead and call me radical or a Paulist like you did here.
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. (John 4:25)
I didn't call you a paulist
rkcon Wednesday, September 28th at 3:15PM EDT (link)I said that if I were reading your position correctly and you were against states setting environmental regulations then you are actually more radical than Ron Paul. And that’s true. I’m not even discussing if you are right or wrong; it’s factually an extremely radical position.
—–
Christie position (and record) on global warming is a conservative one.
People who think conservatism is a scientific position need to be gently educated. It’s not. It’s a philosophy of government. There isn’t a conservative position on scientific issues. They are what they are.
—–
I go agree with Christie when he says that Sohail Mohammed “is an extraordinary American who is an outstanding lawyer” and that “it’s just unnecessary to be accusing this guy of things just because of his religious background”. Sohail is a great lawyer, American, conservative and will be a great judge.
rkcon, how exactly is
Melody Warbington (rwm52) (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 5:35PM EDT (link)the banning new coal from NJ is a conservative position?
As for Sohail Mohammed, he was the lawyer for Mohammed Qatanani, a Muslim Brotherhood operative and member of Hamas. I respectfully disagree with you and Christie that he is an extraordinary American. Not to mention that Christie commented that all this “Sharia law business is crap” despite the fact that courts in 23 states have considered Sharia law in deliberations. Call me crazy, but…oh, wait, that’s what Christie did. Said he was tired of dealing with the crazies who object to Sharia law. How is this a conservative position?
As for being gently educated on what is or isn’t conservative, I’ll pass on what you and Christie offer.
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. (John 4:25)
RWM-- rkcons liberal mask has slipped
Scope (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 5:45PM EDT (link)between his comments to you, and his position on another thread that in-state tuition doesn’t even cover the cost of a college education, the mask has definitely slipped. His nasty and name calling habits of posting are in keeping with the left’s Alinsky tactics of ridicule, which he has done to most posters here that don’t agree with him, and that is a majority.
Oh the irony
rkcon Wednesday, September 28th at 6:06PM EDT (link)“liberal mask”
“nasty and name calling habits of posting”
rkcon- Oh the irony when the tables are turned
Scope (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 6:17PM EDT (link)from the so-called “true conservative.” You are classic, and not at all unique. And yes, your nasty posting habits and name calling have been well connected to Alinsky.
I never said it was
rkcon Wednesday, September 28th at 6:04PM EDT (link)I’m not sure if it’s a big deal. It’s at least as conservative as the subsidies and tax breaks for oil companies. But I thought you had a problem with the entire policy, not with a single issue. Are you from West Virginia? It’s not like people in New Jersey will be forbidden from buying coal. Frankly if that’s your problem with
You don’t know Sohail Mohammed. You probably don’t know about what being a lawyer or public service is about. I don’t care about personal attacks. I don’t engage in that type of conversation. Again, Sohail Mohammed is a great American and conservative. And a great lawyer.
The Sharia law issue is way overblown. Of course courts will consider it in deliberations. Especially if it’s invoked by one of the parts. Courts have always factored the religious practices of individuals when they’re relevant. Christie never said he was tired of “dealing with crazies that object the Sharia law”. Christie objects the Sharia law himself. Please provide link to those statements or admit you are lying.
rkcon, you assume way too much, and I'm not lying.
Melody Warbington (rwm52) (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 6:25PM EDT (link)After this comment, I’m disengaging from further discussion.
For the record, I grew up in TN, lived in GA for a while and have been in AL for the last 11 years. I have over 26 years experirence working for 3 law firms (one in each state) and in-house for the legal team of a major retail company, most of that time as a paralegal.
You didn’t answer how the banning of new coal based on AGW is a conservative position, but instead moved the goal posts.
As for the crazies comment, here’s the quote and a link to the article which has a video as well. The crazies remark comes at about the 3:25 mark.
here
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. (John 4:25)
I quoted from that same article
rkcon Wednesday, September 28th at 6:52PM EDT (link)At no point Chritie says that people who object Sharia law are crazy, as you claim. Again, at no point he says that. If he does, please just quote the direct sentence.
We can assume this is your admission you were lying when you claimed so.
I couldn’t care less about your life.
You have a short memory.
Bill S (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 10:03PM EDT (link)Calling people liars is equally bad as calling social conservatives “lunatics”
Vaya con dios.
(Oh, and let me say: I like Chris Christie. It’s you that is the problem)
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
if you posit a conservative purge on conservatives so your candidate is more electable... you moght be a candi-bot...
Justin Spagnolo (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 10:43PM EDT (link)Thanks for taking out the trash Bill!
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
way too many candibots around these parts
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 10:48PM EDT (link)I don’t see how anyone can get excited for Romney and I can barely see it for Perry. Too many want to burn bridges over a ho hum field, I am not seeing it. But I do know I would take any of them if I knew they would beat Obama. How many of us remember that Obama is the opponent, the getting him out of office is the prize?
Molon Labe!
May I rephrase, Justin?
acat (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 11:03PM EDT (link)If the math you use to make the case for your candidate resembles something from the East Anglia Climatic Research Unit, you’re probably a candi-bot.
MEw
——

Caveat Suffragator
zing! nt.
Justin Spagnolo (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 11:28PM EDT (link)N/T
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
Thank you, Bill S.
Melody Warbington (rwm52) (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 10:47PM EDT (link)I tried to be nice, but can’t help but take exception to being called a liar.
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. (John 4:25)
try being called a racist and anti-Christian
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 10:49PM EDT (link)I have never been called a bot for any candidate, heck, that would be a step up lol.
Molon Labe!
Doc, ya gotta quit leaving me the obvious ones.
acat (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 10:59PM EDT (link)We’ve been called racist so often that it shouldn’t bother us anymore.
– Art Chance.
——

Caveat Suffragator
I hear ya Acat, it does inure a man
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, September 28th at 11:04PM EDT (link)It just saddens me that our side resorts to the lefty vernacular. If shows fear, and that is not good for a fighter.
Molon Labe!
I don't see any Rebublican
lepelerin Thursday, September 29th at 2:16PM EDT (link)in this current field able to stand up to Obama’s demagogory as Chris Christie would. I think that is why people want him to run. They (me) want to see this smackdown of Obama! It’s like watching a car race and hoping for some action. I don’t see any sparks with a Perry or Romney candidacy. With Christie? Oh ya!