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Did Santorum criticism of Catholic John Kennedy 1960 speech cost him in Michigan?

One of the speeches that helped popularize this “modern” idea that our founding fathers established somewhere in the Constitution, a “separation of Church and State” is the 1960 speech by Catholic candidate for President, John F. Kennedy.  Did Rick Santorum’s criticism of that speech – where he said it made him want to “throw up” after he read it (see HERE), lose him the Michigan primary vote yesterday?

While I do believe the battle is far from played out, the “slow but steady” approach of Mitt Romney paid off handsomely as he eked out a very narrow primary election win in his native state of Michigan yesterday.

Rick Santorum might have made a big mistake in how he criticized Catholic John Kennedy this past week, repeated endlessly by the media in the final days before the vote.  And the enormous advantage earned by his years-earlier head start in fundraising also paid off well once again for Mitt Romney in averting a campaign catastrophe for him in Michigan.

To keep this in context, Romney went from a huge 9 percentage point win four years ago in this same state against John McCain, to a narrow 3 percentage point win after spending many millions MORE in Michigan TV commercials to tear down underfunded newcomer Rick Santorum.  Instead of a massive victory it gave him a very narrow win.

But, in my view, the narrow Romney victory on his home turf was more the result of a few mistakes that Rick Santorum made in the final week and how the media focused attention on those mistakes endlessly.

I will address one of those mistakes because it involves the “faith and politics” issue which is my mission.

How could a Catholic candidate for office, lose the Catholic vote as (again) Rick Santorum did today, while campaigning against a Mormon?  First, it is a tribute to Catholics that they do not look just at the religion alone, of the candidates but also at what that person has done, what they propose and how they comport themselves.

And I do believe one of the major mistakes that Rick Santorum made this week was when he said he wanted to “throw up” when he read the John F. Kennedy speech about religion.  For the youngsters, the Catholic Kennedy, running for president, recognized that some people feared a Catholic President because of their perception that he would take orders from a Roman Pope.

Of course, they were not aware that it is only on matters of FAITH AND DOCTRINE that Catholics believe the Pope to be infallible.  Kennedy made a now famous speech to try to clear this up.   This is the speech that Santorum said almost made him throw up.  Here’s an excerpt of one such media report:

“Kennedy for the first time articulated the vision saying, no, faith is not allowed in the public square. I will keep it separate…I will have nothing to do with faith,” Santorum railed. “You bet that makes you throw up. What kind of country do we live that says only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case?”  (see news report HERE).

I have to take exception to Santorum’s blanket statement.  Because I am a non-partisan in the sense that I do put my faith and my philosophy first ahead of any candidate I support.  I support Santorum for President, still do.  I do think this comment he made, was a mistake, and would prefer he had never made it.

First, Santorum made a mistake because it sounded like he is criticizing the entire Kennedy speech, which has in it much to commend.  Second, he surely should have known how his words would be taken out of context, ie. was it the ENTIRE speech and John F. Kennedy, who became the first Catholic President, who made him throw up?  Surely he should have known how his comment would have been used against him, made it sound to people who have a short attention span, that he hates the venerated (falsely I must add) President John F. Kennedy.

And, he should have been on his guard, he should have known better.  The person questioning him was the very partisan, former White House Communications Director for the 1992 campaign of Bill Clinton for President and then the same position at President Clinton’s White House.  He is a known liberal-Democrat partisan.  George Stephanopoulos scored a “gotcha” moment with this story.  Rick, how could you have said this, and especially, to this fellow?  But Stephanopoulos had done his homework and he “earned” this “gotcha,” I hate to admit.

Why was this a mistake for Santorum?

First, and foremost, there are PARTS of the speech, not the entirety of it, that might make a Christian conservative “throw up.”  Yet it sounded like Santorum meant the criticism for both the Catholic candidate and the ENTIRE speech.

For example, John F. Kennedy’s 1960 speech includes this passage – and how could any of us argue with this: “I believe in an America… where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote–where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference–and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.”

In general, these are sentiments which most people would agree with, including most Catholics, including most conservatives.  But did the ENTIRE Kennedy speech – including this segment – make Rick Santorum want to “throw up”?

And who would want to argue with this sentiment expressed by Kennedy in 1960, ” I believe in an America… where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.”  Perhaps we should remember this as we hear Catholic priests like Father Samuel Samuel E. Houser at St. Patrick Catholic Church in York, call on his parishioners to object to the war against Catholics that aims to force them to provide abortion services against their own teachings, to register to vote, and to make their influence felt (see my earlier article).

Where I can take exception to Kennedy in this speech is when he said “it is apparently necessary for me to state once again–not what kind of church I believe in, for that should be important only to me–but what kind of America I believe in.”  I take exception.  Why should your faith be hidden away?  Why can you not be a Christian openly in America?

I take exception where Kennedy says ” I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute…”  There are of course, absolutes.  But this doctrine is not part of the Constitution.  The first amendment does not prevent one from speaking aloud about one’s faith, merely because you are a candidate for office or because you hold public office.  One does not lose free speech merely because as a Christian, you run for public office.

And one can serve as a good example in public life – what in our teaching is called “know Christians by their works.”  Yes of course we all sin – we are human.  But we are forgiven through the birth and death of Christ.  We can start over, we can always live a virtuous life and speak of our faith to help others.  Why must we be silent about this, as John F. Kennedy demands?

A Pastor or Rabbi does not have to refrain from criticizing abortion from the pulpit because John F. Kennedy made a speech declaring this “separation of church and state” and because he announced it is “absolute”.  Both the former and the latter are false.  The idea that so many worship at this false shrine, does in fact, make me want to “throw up.”

I take exception where Kennedy says ” where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials.”  Why?  Because the government forcing my Church to conduct abortions, to pay for what the government considers a sickness (pregnancy) and for its prevention (infanticide), means we cannot resist as a faith community, if you believe Kennedy.  It means our freedom of speech is silenced because John F. Kennedy and today’s liberals should not allow our Priests, Bishops and Church, to “impose” but we must instead acquiesce.

And most of all, I take exception where John F. Kennedy said, ” I believe in a President whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.”

That would mean we cannot see if our candidates for public office use a moral compass to determine their views on specific issues, not if that compass is set by their faith and belief in Jesus Christ, for example.   Sshhh… it is “don’t ask, don’t tell” for Christians.

Yes, when you look closely, there are indeed, parts of that Kennedy speech that, on reflection, may make you unhappy – perhaps even make you “throw up.”  The mistake is not agreeing with me and Rick Santorum.

The mistake is not realizing how easy it would be for your remarks to be construed as attacking the ENTIRE speech and in fact, the first successful Catholic candidate for President. (text of entire 1960 speech of John F. Kennedy HERE).

In the same week he made his comment to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos, news reports cited him explaining “how Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have bullied pious Americans into removing themselves from political discourse.”

Santorum said that the First Amendment that protects us from having the federal government interfere with our religion as been turned upside down, reversed, ” “And now it’s the church,” he continued, “people of faith, who have no right to come to the public square and express their points of view, or practice their faith outside of their church.”

Santorum said he “almost threw up” after reading the Kennedy speech of 1960 because he thought it said “faith is not allowed in the public square” and “I will have nothing to do with faith.”  He then reiterated to Stephanoupolis “you bet that makes you throw up.  What kind of country do we live that says only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case?”

Yes.  I know what he was trying to say.  With what he INTENDED to say I completely agree.

If in order to be a candidate for public office in America you have to be completely silent about your faith in Jesus Christ, never speak of it, never refer to it, never talk about it, never write it, then yes indeed, it is in fact, TIME TO THROW UP.

I have met candidates who have actually spoken before a conservative Christian group in Pennsylvania and who didn’t say a word about their faith and how it shapes their beliefs.  I have spoken to one such after, his speech, asking him about this.  He said he keeps his faith separate from his campaign.  Exactly as Santorum said, “MAKES ME THROW UP.”

This candidate – not willing to speak publicly about his faith – is appealing to conservative Christians to vote for him.  Why should we?  Incredibly, this “silent” candidate’s otherwise fine presentation, was made at a “candidate’s forum” of “Americans for Christian Traditions in our Nation” (ACTION of PA) in York County, a very “red state” part of south central Pennsylvania.  There was no indication of this candidate’s beliefs, what should be the most important thing in the world to him.

Why is it FORBIDDEN to speak of your faith in the “public square”?  This is now forbidden?  This is what Kennedy meant?  This is in fact, what Rick Santorum was criticizing.

So our faith is now banned from political discourse?

That is what Rick Santorum meant to say – how our faith guides us in seeking office should not be banned from the “public square” and it makes me SICK to think that is what “separation of Church and State” means to some people.  It is in fact, sickening how John F. Kennedy felt we should not be allowed to speak of our faith in the public square, not be allowed to ask candidates about this, as he clearly states.

It is not about debating your religion as part of politics.  It is not about having a “religion litmus test” for candidates.  It is about asking, WHAT animates a candidate more than anything else?

Rick Santorum’s point – the one he MEANT to say – is well taken, and I completely agree with him.

But saying “throw up” regarding a Catholic candidate for President, admired by many Christians, was bound to be taken out of context and criticized.  It was.  I believe it lost him several percentage points in Michigan, and allowed Mitt Romney to have a clean sweep yesterday (Michigan and Arizona) by his simply being silent about faith while Santorum “made the mistake” of speaking of his faith in Jesus Christ, and how this guides him.

Faith is important, indeed critical.  What animates someone to the core of his belief, what is his “moral compass” is a critical question.   Why does it now have to be hidden, kept secret?  Why this animus towards Christians?

Another Mormon – Glenn Beck – speaks of faith CONSTANTLY in a way that unites Christians and Jews and Mormons.  He edifies my Pope on his program.  He has David Barton of  Wallbuilders on his show to explain how we have our freedom in this country because of the Christian faith of the founders.  He speaks in a way that shows what motivates him and what unites him with his fans, which includes the undersigned.

So there is no question that the point Santorum – and this writer – agree on is NOT which religion you are, but HOW does this animate and motivate you and shape your beliefs as a candidate?  And most critically, WHY do Christians have to be silent on this topic?

I would not rule out voting for any candidate of a different faith tradition than my own.  I would, if I knew that person believes that their faith has no relevance to their decisions as a public official in the United States and if they believe that this most critical question is BARRED from public discourse.  THAT is what makes Rick Santorum “throw up.”

Should a candidate for public office be willing and capable to speak in defense of their faith?  Should a candidate be able to explain why, based upon their faith, they believe it is immoral and wrong to force a Catholic Hospital to perform abortions and to carry insurance for abortion “morning after” pills for all their employees, to name one recent example?

Should a candidate be able to explain that based upon his strongest beliefs in a personal Savior for each and every one of us and based upon the teachings of his Church and his understanding of Sacred Scripture, he knows that we are all God’s creations and should be treated with respect and care?

Does it mean that they were terribly mistaken, those whose belief in God and Jesus Christ and their understanding of the teachings of their Church made slavery abhorrent to them, and led to the civil war – which in turn led to the ending of slavery in the United States and the preservation of our union?

Do those who say this “separation” of faith from government is “absolute” understand how the religious faith – that blacks were human beings with a soul no different than whites – led to the firm stand by so many to abolish that “peculiar institution” and the election of the first Republican candidate for President, Abraham Lincoln?

Rick Santorum and the other candidates for the GOP nomination for President speak of freedom.  Banning faith from the discussion means the critical “WHY do you believe that” question, is barred from public discourse.  It was a mistake the way he said it.  It was a mistake for him not to have realized that what he said would be so twisted out of context.  But in the end: I’m with Rick Santorum – barring such discourse from the public square MAKES ME THROW UP too.

We should not bar Christians from discussing their faith in public, simply because they are a candidate for office.  We should instead, encourage it.   We should not banish from the room, those who would question candidates about their faith and how it guides them.

A candidates faith is relevant – indeed critical – to how he would govern.  We have every right to ask.  A candidate doesn’t have to tell.  But we should not be barred from asking, nor from seeking to defeat those who won’t answer.  Don’t ask, don’t tell, should not be applied to Christians in the public square.  Do ask.  And don’t vote for them, if they won’t tell.

COMMENTS

  • aesthete

    and frankly is outside the mainstream of social conservative and conservative thought. This is clear when one reads his writings and speeches — he thinks that, in at least some respects, the church can and should force morality on the general populace. The fact is, these statement and the furor that surrounded it was of his own making and reflects his views.

    • JSobieski

      Santorum kind of needlessly rubs a sizable segment of the population in the wrong way.

      For example, Reagan would say that libertarianism was the heart of conservatism, and then differentiate.

      Santorum says that he opposes libertarianism.

      Santorum is really the mirror image of what social conservatives disliked Daniel’s “truce” comment. Of course, Daniels said it once, Santorum finds a new way to stick out every week.

      • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

        Much of what you write, I find myself in strong agreement with. Who can dispute that – if you are my age and were “awake” politically at that time, the Great Communicator’s skills in that arena were unmatched? But I caution you my friend to remember, that is one of the methods that liberals of that time (and today) attempted to demean his ideas and disarm him from his (and our) purpose – he was a teflon President, they warned, and just because people liked him didn’t mean they liked his ideas.

        Consider the stark contrast in method of governing between our hero you are comparing to Rick Santorum, versus Barack Obama. Reagan said what he would do if he became Governor and did what he promised. Reagan said what he would do if he became President and did what he promised. Despite in both cases facing a hostile, Democratic governing majority (even after Dole and the Republicans – with his help – later came to power in the Senate). In marked contrast, consider Obama. He promised almost a Reaganesque view of less government, streamlined government, no taxes, and a reasonable sounding style. In governing, he has swung far to the left of what he promised. Reagan delivered what he promised. Obama lied. They are both smooth operators. I knew Reagan, and we both know Obama, and Rick Santorum, you are no Reagan and you are no Obama.

        So on that we agree, and more. But saying “your first choice” in the primaries sounds fun except, I endorsed Rick for Iowa AT THAT TIME (as I wrote, see my facebook page), and then FOR SOUTH CAROLINA, I endorsed NEWT, AT THAT TIME. And for South Carolina, believing he was our best bet for moving further to the right than Romney and still winning against Obama, I endorsed NEWT, AT THAT TIME.

        When Newt failed – and spent so much time whining and complaining. Yes Newt you EARN a fundraising advantage when you start a few years earlier and you WORK IT so hard, while your entire staff quit in despair because you insisted on a relaxing cruise with your wife in the midst of gearing up a Presidential campaign. And you didn’t qualify in Virginia because Newt, you would think of all people YOU would know the truth – THAT is what you use campaign consultants to do – organize and locals to get enough petition signatures to qualify. So Newt, thank goodness you finally stopped your whining but, alas, it may be too late.

        So that’s why so many of us might vote for our SECOND choice – for me either SANTORUM or GINGRICH would be a better choice.

        But in general, your RULES for primary season are very sensible, and I found myself nodding agreement as I read that.

        On Reagan’s commenting on libertarianism, although outside of the “argument” (in the Greek classical sense that is) of today’s post, I need remind you friend, that there were less anarchists in the libertarian cause then, and they appear to dominate today. More back then had the style and substance of John Stossell, versus today the style and substance of mad, marching Zombies anxious to sink their teeth into some more brains, while the rest of us who would be happy to entertain different views from within the conservative mainstream, are pilloried and bashed by the marching undead. Reagan was very specific about what he meant when he spoke back then of Libertarians and once again, I knew Reagan, I knew those libertarians and today, I therefore, on that knowledge I must say: agree with you that Santorum is no Reagan, and those capital L “Libertarians” are no Reagan-era libertarians.

        The rest of what you wrote is a mixed bag and off the topic of today’s posting so, I won’t go into it, except to thank you so much for the compliment of visiting me here, and I do indeed hope to see you again and to have us become better acquainted.

    • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

      You may recall, if you are near my age, that liberals earnestly spoke of Gerry Falwell and his “Moral Majority” that way. They always claimed that the Christians are trying to “force” their idea of morality, on the rest of us. Nice campaign slogan then and now. But it only works on ignorant people who have no other news source. People who tune in here, have another news source. Won’t wash. Nothing in what Santorum said, forces anybody to do anything. The only use of “force” is in the attempt to demean him for resisting this crazy, anti-constitutional, anti-First amendment idea that people of faith must never speak of that, and must never be guided by that in public policy. It is Orwellian, this “logic”.

      • aesthete

        I’d say it’s pretty “forceful” to support jail time for consensual sodomy, among other things.

        Q: Why do you think that, out of hundreds of elected social conservatives, Santorum tends to get targeted for mockery or scorn by people who do not share his views? Why do you think that he was so unpopular among conservatives? Why did he lose the Republican vote and the Republican primary in a state where he was leading by double digits a week prior? Why did he lose so horribly in PA when he was Senator (worst defeat of that election year, by far)?

        • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

          Cmon aesthete, are you new to all of this? Just about everything you said (except Santorum’s losing a primary, which he did not) was also said about Ronald Reagan, Dan Quayle, Sara Palin and so many other conservatives stretching back as far as I can see. It is ALWAYS said by liberals advising us as to who we should run as our GOP nominee, that it ought not to be a conservative because (a) they are inexperienced and make so many clumsy mistakes (truly: you don’t recall this about Reagan, Quayle, Palin, our US Senate candidates in 2010 in Nevada and Delaware????), And (b) they are “too conservative” and (c) they cannot win. I thank the kindly liberals for their advice but HOW STUPID do we have to be to listen to them? Reagan won the largest majority in California history running for Governor and they STILL said he couldn’t win for President and then he won every state except Massachusetts. Quayle prior to becoming the “joke of the month” for the liberals (and those pretend to be a part of our movement who hate movement conservatives, or who are easily led along by liberal propaganda), had actually been considered the smartest US Senator by the other Senators, and had won very strong majorities for US Senator. Palin’s being added to the dull and boring McCain ticket IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER caused him to take the lead in the polls vs. Obama FOR THE ONLY TIME that happened, before the liberal-left smear/lie attack machine got to work. O’Donnell in Delaware was CLEARLY within reach of beating the likely Democrat at the time she won the GOP primary (must I add the word ELECTION – libs forget. we get to vote, not just accept their “advice” to us). But then the liberal-left smear attack machine went to work, along with their helpers within the Republican Party and in the 7 weeks long campaign she was unable to overcome the continuing attacks from the left while her own state GOP continued its lawsuit to try to stop her as their nominee. In Nevada, Sharron Angle was leading in the poll right up until the day before the election, despite the same kind of smears from the left and their little helpers within the GOP, but the get out the vote effort of the left – including bus loads of workers who got paid time to go and vote against the Christian who was going to ban gambling, and more busloads of immigrants being carried to the polls to stop the Christian who was going to banish immigrants, and the enormous fundraising advantage of the Democrat, turned the tide and reelected the Senate Majority Leader.

          In each case, the “mockery and scorn” you speak of was all part of the weapon of choice, as Saul Alinsky writes in his book, of the leftwing, and it either confuses some within our ranks, or gives more ammo to those who pretend to be part of our cause.

          Harken. There is nothing new here. It does not matter whether or not Santorum made a mistake in how he raised this issue. He is correct on the core point, that Christians should not be silenced from speaking of their core beliefs and what animates and motivates them. Dare we say it: lets not eat the rich, lets not feed the Christians to the lions, and let our laughter be directed at those who use the same tired old methods against us, again and again, year after year.

          There are no conservatives who really care about what kind of sex you prefer, and with whom you prefer it, and creating mythical strawmen for you to argue against is fine, but I’d rather not participate ;in the make believe, when there is the reality of exactly what John F. Kennedy said in 1960, that I differ with. We Christians have every right to prefer candidates who can tell us why they know the difference between right and wrong, and we have every right to protest efforts to silence us.

          • aesthete

            onto my statement.

            There are two facts which are of interest to me in Santorum’s case which differentiate him from politicians like Palin and Reagan:

            1) In this day and age, he supports anti-sodomy laws. This is a fact, not an opinion. Sarah Palin is significantly to the left of her party on gay rights; ditto Reagan at the time that he was running. I don’t know enough about Dan Quayle to know his stance, but I don’t remember him being outside the mainstream of his party on the issue. I bring this to your attention because it is an example of Santorum both being on the extreme periphery of a social issue in an unhealthy, damaging way (not the only issue for which this is true, btw), and because it’s something that (regardless of one’s personal opinion) is going to be an issue in the general. With Palin and Reagan, they focused on their churches and religious views. No one gave a rip, because they either agreed with those views or didn’t give a hoot. In Santorum’s case, he is disliked because of statements of policy that he has made in the past, or because of how he promises to use the President’s bully pulpit. I don’t care about the latter; I am not so crazy about the former.

            2) On a related note, Reagan and Palin were attacked by the MSM and liberals when they were somewhat important figureheads and leaders for the movements that they were representing. In the case of Santorum, a wide, decentralized group of people heaped scorn on a nobody because of some inflammatory statements that he made — it was more akin to the reaction that Alan Grayson got for being such a jerk. There’s a difference between the two.

            My chief complaint with Santorum is that he is not conservative enough about the issues that I care about, and that he comingles personal beliefs and policy (i.e., what government actually does and forces people to do) in a way that I find to be inappropriate and wrong-headed and wrong-headed as a Christian, and which is damaging him politically. This is in no way informed by liberals or the media — I’ve held this opinion for years.

          • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

            With all due respect I’ve never seen any of that in the past. Libs hated the people I mention for the same reason they hate Santorum. They always have a flavor of the month. Never fails. This month it is Santorum. If you have issues with him because you think he is too critical of your idea of normal sex, I’d rather not get into that if you don’t mind. I’ve never heard of any such thing, don’t care to get into that. It is typical that the critics of Reagan, Palin, Quayle, etc., always would bring up “and did you know he said or did this one time” stuff that nobody ever heard of. I think a 3,000 word article that I wrote is sufficient to cover in some small way, what he actually said, and what John F. Kennedy actually said back in 1960, and to see that his criticism is well founded and correct. Sarah Palin of course, had the advantage of using the written word when she “spoke” to this same issue, and the benefit of editors to assist her. But both said the same thing – we dissent from this idea that Christians should be silenced once they step into the “public square.” I thank you again for writing.

          • aesthete

            that people should be put in prison for sodomy? You don’t have to approve of sodomy to think it shouldn’t be criminalized.

            You’re missing the point of my use of that example, and of what is so different about Santorum as compared to those other pols that you mentioned.

  • Seedyrom

    than social areas where he knows the media are going to fixate on him.

    Romney’s evil ad campaign did more damage than the JFK remark.

    • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

      Perhaps you are right, Seedyrom. The CPAC poll showed a rather huge majority there who rate that as their number one issue, well ahead of social issues. But that begs the question: have you not noticed that is INDEED what he has done?

      The problem he has encountered is in two parts. First, no matter what he says, the fact that he is willing to speak about his Faith, means that THIS subject will be what the media focuses on to the exclusion of anything else. If he speaks for 30 minutes, for example, focusing on how WRONG it is to continue so much spending that puts our entire nation in bondage to bankers and to Red China, and at the end mentions that it is TERRIBLE to hurt children – our children – in this fashion, anybody with a bible who opens it can see what our Lord has to say about those who would HURT THE CHILDREN… then you just KNOW that will be THE HEADLINE that liberal reporters will run with… and they will say he is trying to IMPOSE his religion and his sect on the rest of us … and there will then be other liberals, including the JOURNOLIST (see Daily Caller revelation 2 years ago) phonies who pretend to be objective reporters echoing that… and then there will be the plants in these and other conservative circles, and the less well read, the easily duped, the ones who hate conservatives, all jumping up and down about how Rick is trying to “force” his views on others. And lo, it becomes as if he really said it.

      As my column above makes clear, Rick Santorum’s criticism of John F. Kennedy’s 1960 speech and its “absolute” dictate that Christians must be silenced, is valid. His failure to realize how it would be used against him, is his only real failing. It may be fatal.

      • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

        Excellent. Since I began posting what I hope are thoughtful writings here aimed to provoke thought and then action among our conservative brothers, I haven’t read any comment to mine with which I agree more. That is an excellent quote, an excellent critic, and I am very much in agreement.

        Of course, I have to ask you – while agreeing with you – is there any other person running for public office right now, let alone for President, who has done a more thoughtful job in addressing this issue?

        I very much recommend Newt Gingrich’s book and video on this topic (to answer my own question), http://www.amazon.com/Rediscovering-God-America-Reflections-Nations/dp/1591454824

        Writings like that suggest why, despite the criticisms of him, I’d also be comfortable with Newt as our candidate against Obama, and prefer either Newt or Rick versus Mitt.

        Yes I do know who said that wonderful quote – one of many reasons so many conservatives LOVE the one who wrote such – I will await your revelation here and may very well write again on this subject and cite that very quote. But suffice it to say, when that was written, the attacks on the writer were FURIOUS, INTENSE and of course, it was made to sound in the journals of the left and in the writings of those who echo them here, that the very fabric of society had been rent asunder when those words of criticism of St. John the Kennedy, were penned.

        So, we await your revelation and I especially thank you for both your kindness and your compliment to me, in writing here.

  • anonymousbosch

    He wasn’t the first to ever take issue with Kennedy’s speech and message, but I think others have done so in a less inflammatory manner. For example, here’s what one prominent conservative and Republican recently had to say in criticizing Kennedy’s speech:

    “As an adult I’ve revisited Kennedy’s famous speech and have discovered that it is actually quite different from the way it is often described. Instead of reconciling his religious identity with his role in public life, Kennedy entirely separated the two…language was more defensive than is portrayed today, in tone and content. Instead of telling the country how his faith had enriched him he dismissed it as a private matter meaningful only to him…Still his vaunted speech didn’t represent a successful reconciliatoin of faith and public office but an articulate and unequivocal divorce of the two”

    I think those comments are a bit more measured and thought provoking and many would agree with them. Certainly more than saying the speech or at least parts of it made you want to throw up. If Santorum had addressed the speech with comments similar to those I think he’d have been ok.

    Bonus points if anyone can identify who made the criticisms mentioned above?

    • westcoastpatriette

      Can’t think of another Republican who would be interested in what Kennedy said fifty some years ago.

      • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

        No doubt, westcoast, there are plenty of other people who would join you in not wishing to know about or read about history. That’s true. But happily, your imagination is not our only limit. There are some – even Republicans (more so than Democrats I must add) who do in fact, know that we can learn from history. And in this case, how did this false doctrine – attributed incorrectly to the constitution – become so “popular” – that there exists a “wall of separation of church and state”? History. They took Jefferson out of context and there you have the speech – famous for those who bother with such things as presidential elections, history, Kennedy, etc., in which this concept was advanced. The liberals have been arguing that Christians should be blocked from the political process – unless they are quiet about their beliefs – ever since. Bet you didn’t know about that – and I can see it appears, you don’t care about it either. Ah well. Thank you for sharing.

    • anonymousbosch

      Actually, it was Sarah Palin in her “America By Heart” book, in a section on the role of religion in public life and her own career, and what role it should play in government.

      It’s interesting that you mentioned Romney, though. After the part where she criticized JFK as I excerpted above she goes on to contrast his speech with Romney’s 2007 speech on religion. She talks about whereas JFK separated the two and basically said his faith would be irrelevant and should be irrelevant that Romney talked more about how faith and religion can and should be a part of one’s public life and the two spheres can coexist.

      She then goes on to mention a number of other President including Washington, Adams, and Coolidge who all remarked on the role of religion in the operation of the government.

      I was just using that as an example of a way to discuss Kennedy’s speech without saying it makes you want to throw up or other imflammatory terms.

      If Santorum had said something like that I don’t think anyone would have objected.

      • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

        Again, I find myself in agreement with you and thank you for your comment here. Except, there were objections to Sarah Palin’s saying that, and for that matter, virtually anything she said. And attempts were made to portray her as anti-Catholic. But I do agree, her remarks on this topic in her book were far more thoughtful and defensible. Of course, she had the advantage of doing that as a writing with help from editors. Like Santorum, she fumbled a few times too, during the rough and tumble of the campaign, so how about we who agree on all of this, be a little bit less harsh on Santorum for being but a champion of a view that I think we agree on – Christians should not be banished from the public square the moment they speak of or write about what animates them. We should not eat the rich, nor feed the Christians to the lions. Thanks again for writing.

  • Viet71

    John F. Kennedy put the issue to rest 1960. Santorum’s a fool.

    I could vote for the guy in the G.E., but barely.

  • westcoastpatriette

    you shall be judged.

    Santorum’s manner of judging makes me want to throw up. So, he is already reaping what he sowed.

    He is an embarrassment to most sensible social conservatives. He comes off like the self-righteous goody-two shoes that nobody can stand…and he will get slaughtered because of it if he becomes the nominee.

  • aesthete

    that lots of people seem to think that this is just some fixable quirk of Santorum’s on the way to electability — that if he talks about economic policy/if the media stops asking him about social policy, he’ll stay on-message and crush Obama through the use of a blue-collar populist economic message.

    That is not the case: this is not a quirk for Santorum, it’s his whole campaign. This *is* Santorum on message: he’s a thin-skinned candidate with several social conservative (and some defense conservative) hobby-horses. His interests outside of these issues are somewhat limited and inconsistent. Santorum will never give a Reagan-like conciliation/build the base speech because that’s not who he is. He won’t work to reassure moderates or convince them of his views, because that’s not who he is. He’s a dude who likes “winning” college dorm-room arguments in very silly and counter-productive ways, and that’s who he’s been for years. It’s the basis of all the absurd things he’s said over the years. Expecting that to change is like expecting Ron Paul to stop rambling.

  • oldmom2

    comments on college education that hurt him more.

    We certainly know that all young adults aren’t cut out for higher education, however show me a parent who thinks that pertains to *their* child.

  • westcoastpatriette

    And that is another thing that makes Santorum so scary. What you see is what you’ll get.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    Well, such a great job has been done telling us endlessly why EACH of the mainstream candidates for the GOP nomination for President is awful, that I do believe there is ample reason for the media AMPLIFYING such criticisms. It serves their purpose marvelously. And I note that most of such attacks are deeply personal, as is yours.

    While I agree with you in a general way – Santorum is not the very finest speaker I’ve ever heard, I note that another such, Sara Palin, appealed to people not because of her eloquence but because she struck a responsive chord with people who actually HEARD HER SPEAK.

    So, if someone reads YOUR characterization of Rick Santorum and believes it they would most likely not only NOT VOTE FOR HIM in the GOP primary but if he were the nominee, ALSO not vote for him for President.

    And there are people doing that to Romney and Gingrich also, of course. All of that saddens me, because I do believe ALL three would be better as President by far, than Barack Obama. But if advocates of each of the three, succeed in persuading just 10 or 20 percent of the OTHER fellow’s candidates – as you attempt to do here – that there is something AWFUL about that candidate, then I must congratulate you, if your purpose is to reelect Obama. It is a fine strategy, and may very well work. Divide and conquer is a very old idea.

    However, it is also possible you and I agree on a great many other things, and so any personal imperfections of each of the three candidates, may NOT be our reason for choosing a candidate, but perhaps we may agree that a mix of past actions (record), pledges for the future, and personal style, will help us choose our nominee.

    Perhaps you can do a posting about the personal imperfections of each candidate. Lord knows, there’s plenty of material out there.

    As for me, I chose to write today about this “absolute” idea that Christians must be silenced or fed to the lions if they won’t. And Rick Santorum made some mistakes of judgement – as I wrote – in HOW he raised this topic, NOT in THAT he raised it, for which I am grateful.

  • gabs

    his comment read as if he is being condescending to people whose backgrounds might not seem like obvious college material but who might want to go. As if he were saying “Oh, ‘you people’ don’t want to do that college thing.” Well, what if they do want to? Does that make them “snobs?” It is admirable when a young person is the first one in their family to go to college and Santorum sounded as if he were putting down people with that kind of dream.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    That you for sharing. You have given me the idea for a great bumper sticker & campaign slogan and there it is:

    SANTORUM MAKES LIBS THROW UP.
    Vote Santorum

    (or in your case the second line might read DON’T vote Santorum).

    Seriously… move aside Sara Palin, it appears the most despised person to liberals today is Rick Santorum. Much to be said in favor of a system of simply polling Huffington Post/Daily Kos readers and selecting as the GOP nominee whoever they (a) hate the most and/or (b) say will “surely lose if nominated.” Reagan DID in fact, used to be their clear cut winner in both categories and today, it appears it has become Rick Santorum.

    I notice your post is rather devoid of any logical “argument” as to why you think that it is an “absolute” that Christians should be banished from speaking of their faith in the public square?

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    Once again, I note your focus on his personal style and as I said earlier, I agree with you. It could have been better said. But as in my original column (and this one merits one all of its own) I suggest that the concept he was attempting to convey, is a good one. Where is it written that your worth is zero if you do not graduate college? As with the critique of the 1960 John F. Kennedy speech, the problem isn’t what he INTENDED to convey nor even what he may have ACTUALLY said (I hope you actually understood my point in my column – what he ACTUALLY said is very defensible – but THAT he said it was silly – he should have KNOWN how it would be twisted around).

    I do not intend to convey respect or nuetrality towards those who purposely TWIST AROUND what Rick Santorum said – about college or about the Kennedy speech. They are wrong on logic, wrong on philosophy, his critics, and he is correct. BUT GOSH… isn’t it obvious that those already motivated to HATE Rick Santorum, would POUNCE on this, twist it around, and make it sound like an attack on all those who pray that their kid will go to and graduate college?

    Of course, you might prefer Romney, the “safe” candidate, who rarely ventures into such controversy. The only problem is that his strategy of nursing his fundraising advantage and being cautious, might not do him much good against a candidate who has an enormous advantage over HIM in fundraising and in a legion of volunteers, both “real life” and internet-zombies. Which is why the undersigned prefers (depending on which state and what the polls that day say) either Santorum or Gingrich over Romney, and any of three, versus Obama. Thank you for writing gabs.

  • lineholder

    WCP has a valid point. I know from her previous comments that she’s a Christian. So am I. Neither one of us have any objections to someone drawing attention to social issues. But Santorum has this way of coming across as if he’s a preacher preaching a “fire and brimstone” sermon sometimes. And it does sound like he’s being judgmental of people.

    For myself, I like a good “fire and brimstone” sermon every now and then. It helps me keep things in perspective…reminds me that actions can and do have consequences.

    But would I want to listen to it all the time? NO. Why? Because life is short, we reap what we sow, and I want to spend a fair amount of time sowing the kind of seed that reaps blessings! Even for me, there’s a point where I’ll tune out someone who comes across as “fire and brimstone” as much as Santorum does.

    I respect Santorum’s convictions and the fact that he is willing to stand up for what he believes in. I just wish he would temper his tone a bit, and balance his message between social and economic issues more than he has been.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    I believe your complaint would make more sense if it were based on something that Rick Santorum had control over. If he keeps speaking on a variety of issues and keeps focusing on fiscal issues – which he has done – and spends 30 seconds addressing his core beliefs, the media “memo” on this says: ALWAYS FOCUS ON ABORTION, ALWAYS FOCUS ON SOCIAL ISSUES, NO MATTER WHAT ELSE HE SAYS. Didn’t you get the memo? The rest of them did. They know full well that a candidate who appears preoccupied with the issue in third place importance to mainstream conservatives (economics, defense and last, values voters, see recent CPAC poll), will lose support in the primaries. It doesn’t matter at all if it is true or not true – if he says ANYTHING on the values voters issues they explode it all over the place. That is typically how the media works. That is why I attempted to write a more thoughtful article that focuses on what he ACTUALLY said and what John F. Kennedy ACTUALLY said in 1960. To those interested in defense issues of course, THAT is what they want to hear about. But if it appeared it was the ONLY ISSUE a candidate ever spoke about, even as it TURNED ON that one segment of our conservative coalition and energized them, it would eventually TURN OFF the other voters – those interested in Tea Party/economics issues and the values voters. So, candidates who address these issues are doing what is a normal part of the process. Biased media sources & their water carriers within our ranks, will always say that Rick Santorum is interfering with their sex life, trying to put them in jail just because they want to have sex with a shrub in their back yard, just because he doesn’t favor animal-human sex, or whatever sick stuff they keep coming up with and attributing to Rick Santorum. Nothing new here. I’ve seen them do the same thing to plenty of other conservative candidates. Thank you again for writing.

  • lineholder

    It’s an obstacle to be overcome. Nothing more and nothing less. You want to believe that to be impossible, that’s up to you. Santorum, on the other hand, has to find a way to overcome it if he wants to win this.

    If Santorum doesn’t have control over his tone, his manner of presenting himself and the content of the message he presents….who does?

  • annie54

    I had a new baby boy and a 1-1/2 year old son. The speech was the beginning of taking prayer out of public schools. The Catholic Schools weren’t touched, but the public schools have been.

    My sons are now 52 and 53 years old. There is no prayer in the public schools.

    I have fought this issue for my sons all their lives and lost. All due to JFK trying to soft-pedal the fact that he was a Catholic – at our expense. Santorum is right but used the wrong language, although, I have to say that I could throw up also.

    Good Night – Sweet Dreams.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    …was a first step to banishing God from life in America, where it is now commonplace to use that “separation of church and state” to criticize anyone for speaking of their faith if they are in the public square and even on these pages, that influence is felt. Thanks for writing. I’d never actually read the John F. Kennedy speech until now, and many who have criticized what I have read have ALSO not read it, judging from some of those comments. Santorum was correct in the idea that he had, that we should object to this notion of our not being allowed to mention God out loud in public discourse.

  • reservedpowers

    Santorum tied Romney in Michigan. He did acknowledge that he should have used different wording than “throw up”. Keep in mind that he just got thrust into the spotlight, coming from behind out of nowhere. He is not as hairsprayed and polished as Romney, but he has the best policy ideas when you analyze them.

    A large number of faithful Catholics support Santorum. People who call themselves Catholic because they go to Mass on Christmas and Easter may not support him as much. Santorum has the best understanding of the U.S. Constitution and the original intent of our Founding Fathers out of all the candidates. He certainly has a better understanding than “Constitutional Law Professor” Obama. Or is it that Obama understands the Constitution; he just doesn’t like it? –Jackie