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WHO ARE THEY, who hate us all, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich supporters alike?

Some of us may have been so focused on the differences between Rick Santorum (who I favor), Newt Gingrich and Mitt “etcha-sketch” Romney during this GOP Presidential primary, that you may not have noticed there’s a crowd out there which doesn’t care, because they hate us all the same.

For them, the “line in the dirt” is very clear and they are taking dead aim to all of us they see on the other side of that line from them.

Yes, they hate us, you and me and all of us, regardless of which of these three candidates we support.

To these haters, there’s not a “dime’s worth of difference between Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich.

To the haters there’s only two sides in this battle – and most people who are RED STATE and Human Events readers and who support any of these three candidates for President, are on the wrong side of the line, are the enemy.

And they hate us.

Which side of this line do you stand on?

The street protestors who hate all conservatives and Republicans but especially Rick Santorum – their “flavor of the month” lately, or on the other side from them?

I do not know if your mother or father ever told you they did not want you to be friends with someone you wanted to be friends with.  I had such a situation at a very young age.

I listened to my parents but I was really upset about it what I thought was unreasonable interference with my private life (makes me sound either very young or else, like a liberal or libertarian?).

Well, that kid ended up being arrested a few years later and went to jail.

Whereupon, it dawned on me that “there but for the grace of God” while true, is incomplete until you add, “and the choice my parents forced on me at that youthful age, of who I should NOT associate with.”

Harken.  (“listen well” for you youngsters, per Merriam Webster).  Therein lies a lesson.

For most of us today it is your choice, not your parents, who you associate with.  Who would that be?  It tells the world a lot about you, who your choice is.

We oldsters, not as well versed as the “now” generation with their “smartass” phones and their 2-thumb typing, their “social” media and their Facebooking, know something you might not have yet figured out.

You are who you hang out with.

Oh you can argue about that – but few argue with Plato’s old “perception appears to be reality” idea (popularized into what he did NOT say – perception is NOT reality it just appears so).

Your choice of friends, gives the appearance of WHO you really are.

Or as some who “bastardized” the original Plato might put it today, “your friends SAY WHO YOU ARE.”

As we listen to complaints from our libertarian friends about the surveillance and “information mining” (as it was called by Admiral John Poindexter who under our hero Ronald Reagan, first proposed it), that the “guvamint” is “collecting” information on all of us – and they are – the people who complain the loudest should HARKEN the most.

You are who you hang out with.

In today’s facebook age you go to someone’s facebook page and you see some real crazy people sometimes, on their facebook page as their “friends.”

What do you conclude about that person, whose page you are looking at?

If you are like me, a little older and “choosier” about who you might want to be friends with, you draw a conclusion – and in some cases you say OK, and accept their friend request – or even initiate it.

But in other cases you run like heck the other way – perhaps you click IGNORE (that is Facebookese for “no I do not accept”).  Or you go further in your flight and you click BLOCK (which means, we have each turned “invisible” to each other using the “Facebook” search).

But how many of those young people who laugh at us oldsters, how many of those libertarians worried about the “guvamint’s surveillance” of publicly available information – such as our Facebook page – have ever considered this question: WHO are your friends, and what does that tell the world about YOU?

I recently had one of my friends “refer” or recommend someone, using the Facebook mechanism, to become MY friend – I had but to do one “click” to accept the invitation and invite that person.

After looking at that referral’s facebook page, I wrote this, which I wanted to share with you (blocking out the name of the friend of mine who kindly suggested this for me).

“(name of my friend), just wanted to thank you for your recent “referral” but I must decline in this instance.  Although I am more of a “mainstream/full spectrum” conservative, people who identify themselves as a capital L libertarian (ie. Libertarian Party) tend to call people like me “neocons” and they especially hate the Christian-right.  It is not a mutual feeling, ie. I do not know any people on the Christian-right who ‘hate’ anybody, much less hate Libertarians. 

“But for an example of what people like this GET ANGRY ABOUT (ie. who you recommended to me), read my column of today.  The people who were there to jeer and express hatred towards Rick Santorum (Tues. nite in in Gettysburg, PA), as I report from eyewitness accounts, were BOTH the Libertarian (capital L libertarians) and the Occupy Wall Street, and from the perspective of any fair minded observer they are the same thing, they mingled together comfortably, and they hate the same thing/same people/same candidate. 

That would be my friends standing in the line to hear Rick.  And it includes (especially) Rick.  And it would include people like me, who gave a ‘fair and balanced and truthful’ report on what ‘Libertarians’ were up to yesterday. 

“So long as somebody identifies themselves as your friend did who you recommended to me, not as an open minded, fair minded, affable lower case ‘L’ libertarian that Ronald Reagan spoke of over 25 years ago but instead as a partisan, anti-conservative, Santorum-hating, capital ‘L’ libertarian, I am not interested in being publicly identified, not on Facebook and not anywhere else, as a ‘friend’ with such a person, or even of being associated with such a person in any way.  See my RED STATE column of today for specific reference  … and thank you again for thinking of me in making the referral, I do appreciate it.  -PAT HENRY”

Now the liberal left is big on the theory of “free speech” and the first amendment, although they never do read the entire text – “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Notice it does not say there, that your “freedom of speech” is absolute?

Notice the First Amendment ALSO refers to our right to assemble, petition, and to practice our religion?

Notice most of all, it does say that I must give you a platform on my Facebook page to express YOUR views which oppose mine, nor do I have to give you access to MY FRIEND LIST so you can go spew forth onto them, views with which I don’t agree?

Most of all, notice that it does not say, you have the right to “pose” as if you were my friend – using Facebook – while you post on MY WALL and speak to MY FRIENDS, views I don’t at all agree with and don’t wish to be associated with?

It is one thing to be “friends” with someone who is for Rick Santorum while you are for Mitt Romney or for Newt Gingrich.  You might disagree on a few things and friends can do that but still remain respectful and amiable towards one another.  Especially if they say that they are Christians.

But when the core of your belief is that there’s no difference at all between the two political parties, that you want to stand side by side with Occupy Wall Street protesters expressing hate towards Rick Santorum and with those who are standing in line to hear him and see him – as happened at Gettysburg, PA, then it is time to draw a line, and see which side of that line you want to stand on.

Yes I know.  I’m not Colonel Travis, and last night was Gettysburg and Santorum, not Alamo and Davey Crocket.

But the line is there, nonetheless.  On this side of that line stand I, and most of those who support Santorum, Newt Gingrich and yes I do believe, Mitt Romney as well (even though many are far more moderate than those of us who support Rick or Newt).

Most of us are not at all Olympia Snowe Republicans (though some are) and if we live in Pennsylvania most of us didn’t agree with Santorum and didn’t vote for Arlen Specter as he suggested..

On the other side of this line, are those who stood with Occupy Wall Street last night in Gettysburg.  Who think it is great sport to brandish about – on their Facebook pages in some cases – the symbol of leftwing Occupy Wall Street – the terrorist Guy Fawkes’ mustachioed cartoon drawing or even the most “popular” image in the world (see wiki’s entry) of that other terrorist thug, Che Guevara.

They love that quote, those on THAT side of the line, about the blood of patriots and tyrants refreshing the tree of liberty (as did I until I kept seeing it on their pages), they sport photos of guns and knives and happily of themselves bearing it, of “speaking truth to power,” and “throwing them out” and even “resist.”

Sounds like the Black Panthers from the 1960′s so far?

They hate all GOPers, most often hate all conservatives who they say are just apologists for the wicked Republicans.  They say they cannot see any difference between the GOP and the Democrats.  It is all “the establishment” to them, all needs to be torn down and lets start anew.

They are for “power to the people” and most often have no clue that is exactly what the 1960′s leftists used to chant, and it is what the Occupy Wall Street crowd says, and why they are so comfortable with them, and with their rhetoric.

They don’t like you is an understatement because so many of them HATE you and they say it loud and clear.  And some of you my friends, are THEIR friends on Facebook because, I suppose you would say, you have “an open mind”?

When it comes to trash and filth and those tearing down America I must tell you plainly, I do not have an open mind at all.  My mind is very made up.

When it comes to protecting my wife, my family, my country and my faith, my mind is very, very made up.

And you and I my friend, should be far more “choosy” about these matters and about the friends we have – especially on place like “Facebook” where your choices very much help define WHO you are and what you stand for.

I’m very happy with the company I keep, here at RED STATE online and in what some of us still call “the real world” – the people that would NEVER be seen associating with the people on THAT side of the street in Gettysburg, PA.

It has nothing to do with Rick Santorum, who was there in Gettysburg on Tuesday night, nor with Mitt Romney nor with Newt Gingrich.

The sooner the supporters of these three candidates understand the real “line in the dirt” is not between us, but between all of us and those people in the street at Gettysburg last night, the sooner we can get back on track to throwing out of office those people who are destroying our country and defeating in primaries those who won’t stand up to them but wish to run away from battle.

Most of us here agree with the purpose of RED STATE – to help the most conservative, articulate and experienced candidate available win primaries and then help them win elections.

We can only win in general elections by defeating in primaries the wishy-washy “etcha-sketch” Republicans who RED STATE’s Erick Erickson warned us about – one of whom won renomination anyway on Tuesday in Illinois’s 16th Congressional District (A Case Study in Why Republicans Do Not Fear Conservatives).

That is what happens when we don’t stand together.  That is what happens when we say “oh I’m just too busy” instead of doing what several hundred people did this past Tuesday night – turn off their TV set, get out of their comfortable house and drive off – some drove a few hours – to stand up on the other side of the line from the Occupy Wall Street leftists and their hater-allies in Gettysburg.

The winner when we don’t stand together, are those people in the street at Gettysburg two nights ago – the Occupy Wall Streets, the direct descendants of the hateful radical left of the 1960′s, those who line us all up in their gunsights and say, “we do not see any difference between them.”

Despite some differences in primaries – and I do remain a steadfast supporter of Rick Santorum – the real “line in the dirt” is between us, and those who would either help, or stand to the side, while Barack Obama and his army tramples us to win reelection in 2012 and continue their “transforming” work on our beloved country.

Defriend them on facebook.  Stand apart from them.  Take issue with them.  They are not your friends and they think all of us are the same thing, all of us are “neocons” and all of us conservatives, are the same thing as the liberals.

They cannot tell the difference between conservative Senator Marco Rubio and leftist Senator Chuck Schumer.  The two parties are the same thing they keep chanting.  It is right there on their Facebook pages, and some of these people are listed as YOUR friend.

They are either stupid and/or misinformed or they are purposely lying with the purpose of destroying us, discrediting us, defeating us.

Either way, stand apart from them.

It is time for us to have a clear field of fire, regardless of which candidate for President each of us on THIS side of that line support.

Take a good look, at who is throwing the rotten eggs and tomatoes, the epithets and angry words at us.

It is clearly there to see.  In the street of Gettysburg this past Tuesday night.

On the pages of Facebook, all over the internet, at hate sites like Daily Kos and at the Facebook pages of those who echo that hatred and that defamation of conservatives and in some cases use the material from the leftwing hate sites to attack conservatives.

Take a good look at those who hate us, and then make a decision.  And then I pray, you will do something about it.

As for me and my house, we serve the Lord, and we stand with Ronald Reagan in urging, “hold up that banner of no pale pastels but of bold and vibrant colors.”  The Colors of concerned Christians who will not lay aside our faith when we step into the public square.  The colors of conservatives, proud of our country’s heritage and determined to preserve all that is good.

We did terribly in Illinois watching conservative Don Manzullo go down to defeat in a primary at the hands of a GOP “regulars” candidate.

As Erick Erickson said, so often, conservatives “won’t pony up for their own. (therefore we are) Paper Tigers… desk ornaments, not cause for concern.”

Men of the West, to echo Tolkien’s King, make your stand now.

Oh.  And as for a choice of friends?

Were I there this past Tuesday night I’d have happily stood on the Santorum side of the line, and this weekend, I’ll be there with Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney’s emissary Gov. Nikki Haley at the PA Leadership Conference.  Stand with me there in Harrisburg, now and onward, and I’ll happily be friends with most anybody there.

Stand with me, with RED STATE activists, on this side of that line in the dirt.

HanoverHenry is Pat Henry on Facebook, and I’m on the lookout for new friends there.

Links to articles I wrote at RED STATE at my Facebook Notes section.

COMMENTS

  • Scope

    Over the past few weeks I’ve been reading about the fiasco’s happening at the Missouri delegate selection caucuses, where the Ron Paul supporters were so disorderly that they caused some of the locations to be closed down that day, and 2 Paul supporters were arrested.

    A few weeks ago there was another story about a Colorado (I think) GOP meeting turning into screaming and shouting match, again because some Ron Paul supporters didn’t agree with how the meeting was being conducted, and they wanted their voices heard by dang it.

    I’ve read that some Ron Paul supporters are planning on going to the convention in Tampa, and creating more havoc there. They’ve already made themselves mostly unwelcome at CPAC from their past behavior. Hopefully Ron Paul won’t be the factor he was hoping to be at the convention, as there is no way he will win any pluralities in one state, let alone 5.

  • honoraryintern

    …and invite anyone that will stand with us. When a Libertarian attacks a ‘Neocon’, I recognize the source and stand, the wind will blow by. They aren’t my type of Conservative as they would sacrifice the young and weak for an ideal that I see as money well spent. I recognize the source and discard the judgement.

    Well said hanover! That exact topic seems to drive a lot of the tit-for-tat exchanges that pass for discussion, here.

    Calls are being made into LA today and tomorrow at RickSantorum.com. Stand or stop your gritching.

    Related post on Rick haters

    http://www.redstate.com/honoraryintern/2012/02/19/will-100000-bots-steal-your-heart-and-vote/

  • Ann2012

    …so I thought I

  • texastaxpayer

    The party that wants our constitution to be the law of the land sans federal over reaches are a bunch of wild eyed liberal radicalized wall.streeters now…..eh…

    Following the constitution is now a radical idea…. I guess its true if you live long enough you will see everything….

  • civil truth

    send me an e-mail off line to me [at] yahoo.com

  • Ann2012

    Libertarians and conservatives are different. We do not share the same ideology. Just read what libertarians say about themselves.

    I think all or at least most political ideologies including liberal Democrats believe they

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    …of the slash and burn tactics of the left I was referring to. Does anybody else notice how folks walk around with a pocket constitution who sometimes give the appearance of never reading it and perhaps not reading in general? Why do we who are conservatives and in my case very strongly FAVOR the Bill of Rights’ additional constraints on federal power, so often get accused of being (a) neocons and (b) not having read the Constitution and not opposing it? That is truly a strawman argument. And usually, the people making it haven’t read anything to warrant making that argument. They are simply parroting their “party line” – always make those two accusations. I wrote nothing to warrant such, and you must have mixed me up with somebody else. Now, was that you who was reported standing in the midst of those “Occupy Wall Street” protesters in Gettysburg a few days ago? Thanks for writing, and I am so happy that the eyes of Texas are upon me.

  • texastaxpayer

    What I saw first hand was an attempt to restore the 10th amendment and do away with federal intervention. While I can’t say I agree with everything they profess to support. I can say I have a lot more in common with their stances than Romney, Boehner or Mcconell.
    What I see as the major difference in their platform and ours is they aren’t trying to legislate morality. Frankly if you actually study the constitution they are right.

    However painting these people was wild eyed lunatics maybe politically convenient though I found it far from accurate. As would John Stossell I might add. Unless of course your suggesting Washington, Jefferson and Franklin are radicals by your definition. In which case carry on…

  • Ann2012
  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    …in Gettysburg. The people I spoke to who actually saw them, are the basis for my report that their appearance was the same, their signs were very similar, and they were, just as my report said, there to protest Santorum. Your friends who you so ardently support, simply don’t like us. That does not mean that I, the Santorum supporters, and the conservatives, “like” Romney, Boehner or McConnell. We can most likely make a better list than you can of our grievances, including the fact that Majority Whip Cantor flew into Illinois to endorse and campaign with the more liberal GOP candidate for Congress against a conservative endorsed by Red State editor Erick Erickson. Again, you repeat the same tired old party line – that those of us who bother to work in and vote in GOP primaries are therefore somehow, supporters of the very worst GOP incumbents and somehow responsible for all of the things we have been fighting against. You are being silly, foolish or simply mistaken at best, or disingenuous or dishonest at worst, in saying that I support those people. Can you name the U.S. Senator that conservatives wanted McConnell to appoint to a Committee Chairmanship in the Senate, who was then NOT appointed? Can you name how many U.S. Senators have a 100% rating by the ACU and which political party they are members of? Can you name which political party has almost 2 dozen Senators who are 0% rated by ACU and which party they are a member of? Can you tell me the name of the person who proved my point – they disagree with us conservatives – and speak of it online – far more than they dispute liberals? That last one I’ll give you the answer to because I suspect you don’t know the answer to ANY of these so I can help you out in one place – the answer is, you. Thanks very much for proving my point. The people that are angry in that Gettysburg street, are Occupy Wall Street leftists and Ron Paul/Libertarian Party activists, and they don’t like any of us, and like you, cannot tell any difference between Romney, Santorum and Gingrich or for that matter, between GOP and Dems. All the same to them. My point exactly and thank you.

  • texastaxpayer

    Though I must admit a certain amount of skepticism for anyone who furthers the idea that the bill of rights had little meaning until the supreme court granted it validity. A little backwards I believe.

    I think you are right to research and be concerned. I have been doing quite a bit of that myself. In fact I posted a diary yesterday detailing some of the polling data that is available as little as it is for Gary Johnson and Romney. I think Johnson may prove to be a real problem for Romney.

  • civil truth

    As far as I can tell, there are two distinct groups of libertarians – those who come from an atheistic individual rights starting point – notably Ayn Rand and objectivism or from the Enlightenment – and those who start with Natural Law, which is rooted more strongly in Christian thought and particularly Aquinas.

    For the latter, you should look at the Independent Institute.

    http://www.independent.org/

    While I don’t call myself a libertarian, much of that had to do with rejecting the atheistic framework in which it had been presented. However, I’ve been conversing almost biweekly with Dave and Mary for at least a couple years now, and find much innovative and Christian-based. My biggest disagreement with them is over foreign policy and the role of the military, but I understand their concerns about the dangers to our freedoms from the security state.

    Fell free to e-mail me [at] yahoo.com if you want to converse further about the this group.

  • aesthete

    that you’re talking about a political party which averages less than half of a percentage of votes in the Presidential election, right? If you really think you’re being valiant by misconstruing and attacking this small group, feel free — but do so knowing that your self-victimization is based about as much in fact as any hysterical left-wing or “moderate” jeremiad about “scary right wingers”. This line in particular could have been lifted from any of the dozens of “Rise of the Tea Party” missives bandied about lefty circles:

    “they sport photos of guns and knives and happily of themselves bearing it”

    None of your post is a critique of the ideology at play; merely attacks on a group that you perceive as being against your goals. Of course, that’s not a rare tendency when it comes to conservative “critiques” of libertarianism as a movement.

  • Scope

    without reading Russell Kirk on Libertarianism. In that writing, I particularly like when he refers back to Chesterton’s writing of The Yellow Bird, and his description of the Russian anarchist as someone who was at least lively, and who knew his own sex, as opposed to his views of the more modern libertarians.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    … but I also note that just as with any alliance of people who may share some goals and who share some enemies we simply do not agree with everything that Libertarians stand for. And it is not the mainstream conservative and/or Christian who targets them. There are none from our ranks who picket outside their meetings, or who write hate pieces and carry hate signs protesting their candidates. It is a one sided battle and many are naively thinking that since we agree with much of what libertarians stand for then we are good pals. They don’t think that way and your citations show that clearly. May I suggest that instead of worrying about being “too long” in your comments I would be honored if you were to simply create your own “diary” and when you read something like this which may get you “fired up” then write as much as you like. You can still post a message HERE and then post the link. I would of course, be honored if you mention my post IN YOUR article as I would most gladly see your link here as well. Networking 101. And, for 102… look me up on FACEBOOK and lets be FBF (FaceBookFriends). Thank you again for honoring me with your post.

  • Ann2012

    Awhile back when people would write in their arguments to me that,

  • Ann2012

    …then why not just stay within the conservative movement and work for a more efficient smaller government. Why divide people even further.

    From what I

  • Ann2012

    .

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    … and C.K. Chesterton… and do you recall what the libs said about his earlier and classic THE CONSERVATIVE MIND? As they said of Goldwater’s later book (the shorter, more shallow – and hence easier to digest – The Conscience of a Conservative) the libs said it was “an oxymoron.” How could a “conservative” have a “mind” OR a “conscience?”

    What many forget is that today’s capital L libertarian has little in common with the libertarians of Ronald Reagan’s day, some of whom were friends of mine. The loudly pro-drug, antiwar, hate-the-conservatives, anarchist-libertarians of that day, a small minority at the time, runs things today. Very different. Kirk shows the original roots but sadly, the people he is speaking of are not I fear, in any way related to today’s anarchists who we saw marching around in protest in Gettysburg a few days ago with the Occupy Wall Street crowd.

  • civil truth

    And if there’s one thing that this primary season has demonstrated, conservatism is quite fractious at this point.

    I don’t want to go very far in trying to define others, but the Ind Inst is primarily focused on the intellectual and philosophical aspects, and trying to change hearts and minds, not on electoral politics with its compromises. (Not to mention they’re a 501(c)(3) organization)

    The Paulites, on the other hand, are a whole different package. That’s where you need to worry about infiltration and pod people.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    I appreciate your note and read your article and left this message over there, which I would like to share here – and I also clicked “like” so it recommends on to my facebook friends and also RECOMMEND (http://www.redstate.com/honoraryintern/2012/02/19/will-100000-bots-steal-your-heart-and-vote/

    I had already anticipated another writing on the subject of the faceless, real-nameless Zombie denizens who inhabit the internet using burn and slash methods but your article so very well hit the bullseye. If we judge the tree by the fruits it is always helpful to know

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    and of course, the part that is not true would not be realizable… while you may wish to disparage the Ron Paul and Libertarian Party’s influence I do not. They have won far more delegates during the recent GOP primary contest than you are giving them credit for. They give the appearance of far more influence in the Tea Party movement than you are giving them credit for. At the Gettysburg appearance of a “top 2″ presidential candidate the haters I wrote about here – the combined force of Ron Paul/Libertarian Party and Occupy Wall Street leftwing protesters, despite being outnumbered more than 10 or 20 to 1 by the people inside, and despite their saying and doing and being NOTHING of news value, still got nearly 50% of all media attention from their presence. That 1% you speak of sure is being distorted to give the illusion of far greater numbers. And many good conservatives are indeed being fooled because we agree on some issues.

    If any ONE of several of the characteristics I described were present on someone’s Facebook page, as I said, I wouldn’t be worried. But I noticed, as anyone else can as well, that the real nutjobs out there have a WHOLE LIST of those things – and if you keep saying CHECK as you go thru this list then ask yourself WHY is this person being allowed (by you) to use YOUR name as a friend when he doesn’t agree with you and even HATES what you stand for?

    (1) water the tree of liberty with blood, (2) brandish firearms wildly in photos, (3) speaks of his hate for government and officials, (4) everybody is the same thing down with the establishment, (5) angry, (6) illiterate, (7) mad at all conservatives, (8) more anti-GOP rhetoric on his page than anti-Democrat, (9) links to very crazy stuff “just for your information, (10) deep into many “conspiracy theories”, (11) thinks 9/11 was an inside job, (12) Ron Paul for President is a major preoccupation, (13) plays an awful lot of those games which are of course, posted on his Facebook page, (14) writes a lot of short, negative message posts, most of which you do not agree with, (15) likes to jabber on about the “neocons” (16) speaks of how faithful they alone are to the Constituion, (17) anybody who does not agree with them hates the Constitution, according to them.

    I suggest that in evaluating someone as a “Facebook Friend” if you see a PREPONDERANCE of these getting a CHECK it means either (a) you made a mistake in having that person as a friend or, (b) I made a mistake in having YOU as a friend. Either way, one of us can correct that. And my article helps explain WHY. Thanks for writing and giving me this chance to enlighten.

  • Scope

    which you are one of, prefer to disparage those that speak out against large L libertarianism, which you have done yourself here, if I’m not mistaken. Rather than getting your hair standing upright, because you see someone arguing against that nasty word libertarianism, why have none of you site libertarians ever put forth a specific policy proposal that you would agree with, rather than posting a view here, and another view there? or is it like beauty, I know it when I see it? I’ve read many comments from you guys asking that the candidates put out specific policy positions, and to spell it out in detail. Yet you never ever put your specific policy positions ever anywhere in one place. How about you cover what positions you hold with respect to fiscal, social and nat/sec positions in one place, or within one post, so we all can all determine what we agree with, or what we don’t? Spell it out bro.

  • texastaxpayer

    in the first few paragraphs of your diary conflating the Libertarian party with occupy wall street. Frankly after reading the above I find it amazing that you would respond with a “strawman” accusation. Guess irony is not your strong suit my friend. BTW for a pretty.decent representation of this party that “hates” you, me , Christians and know doubt puppies and kittens. John Stossell is on the Fox Business Network. I can’t guaranty he will be burning a cross while demanding Christians renounce their faith but you should get a basic idea of what those evil “haters” are all about.

    Liberty, Freedom and a government the restricts itself to the confines of the constitution. Yes we must all stay on the look out for these radicals…

  • aesthete

    critical reasoning skills, and ignorance of the issues in play — color me shocked. I don’t have the time or patience to teach you how to develop those things, but I do want to address a few things for the benefit of anyone reading:

    (1) I have signed on to many, many specific proposals that I agree with — just two days ago, I suggested a whole slew of them for the Republican nominee to enact. Again, your inability to decipher these straightforward posts is your problem, not mine.

    (2) My problem with social conservatism is that it is completely incoherent and hypocritical as an ideology with premises that approach all-encompassing statism at its extremes, not that it varies in its enactment. Every philosophy varies in enactment; I like that various strains of classical liberalism are actually consistent and coherently based on the harm principle, or appropriate realms for government to act in.

    (3) I could give half a crap about the Libertarian party. It is a bit much when social conservatives make out of Christianity a stalking horse for victimhood, and when they make themselves out to be “victims” of groups that have no real power. The above post could have been written by a black advocacy group about a myriad of things, and I don’ think that victimhood and identity politics are any better when conservatives practice them. I also don’t appreciate when the (big “L”) Libertarian Party gets mixed in with the little “l” philosophy, which is done above either out of sloppiness or intent.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    … he is in fact, also civil as well as very well reasoned, and I do enjoyu his show. Would that more libertarians were as fair minded and civil as he. We don’t agree on a few things but he does not – as you do – spend so much of his time attacking conservatives and Republicans. He is respectful even of those he does not agree with, and always so polite. I wish he would give a seminar for those folks in the street at Gettysburg who you object to my reporting about. They are the ones who chose to stand shoulder to shoulder with Occupy Wall Street leftists so don’t try to make it sound like I just made this up, it was all over the news. And don’t equate them with Stossell, he wouldn’t have been caught dead in such a crowd.

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    I can see by your reasoning of articles you have posted here that you know as well as anyone (already) much of what I write about – such as the big difference between lower case and upper case Libertarians (or LP vs L). If you have a facebook account we can chat there, but I do not use email with this account. I have several like minded friends who will be in attendance and I am sure they would be the sort of folks whose company you would enjoy, if I knew how to connect you I most certainly would – other than via Facebook internal mail system.

  • texastaxpayer

    I will take your word for the events and state that frankly I am a little shocked to consider the idea of occupy and Ron Paul supporters joining forces. I have always felt the Ron Paul people were a bit off. I never thought they were “occupy” off though. That is a very interesting turn of events that I will research over the comming days. Your questions are certainly valid but its late in Texas and I will take finding the answers as homework ;)

    For the record I have nothing against Santorum or his supporters. Though I must admit to being a Perry man myself…..

  • https://www.facebook.com/HanoverHenry hanoverhenry

    …is a wonderful tactic for you to attack but has little or nothing to do with the good, kind and gentle people – more of them Christian I am sure – who you created as a strawman and then attacked. This “statism” argument that you and your liberal/leftist allies keep using on conservatives has no bearing on what we actually have said or what the founding fathers of this country believed in. It is a group of dedicated and wonderful Christians of means who met to draft and sign the Declaration of Independence and who later drafted and got passed the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Attributing to Christians all of the ignorance and hatred you keep speaking of was exactly my point about the gathering at Gettysburg. Those people hate us and are animated by their hatred of conservatives and Christians far more than by any actual knowledge, or truth, or by anything they don’t like about Obama or Democrats. Obviously you must not be well read in claiming our conservative philosophy is “incoherent and hypocritical.” They said the former as I wrote earlier, when The Conservative Mind appeared in the 1950′s and your faithful echoing of the “hypocrite” argument shows your antipathy to the biggest group of self described sinners on this earth – we Christians. Or it shows you are a liar, if you know we are sinners but are also redeemed by our choice of who we follow, and despite our sins we can seek salvation. Since 100% of all humans are sinners – according to our theology, when you and your leftist allies tear down a Christian as a “hyprocrite” it is like you are loudly proclaiming I AM STUPID or I AM IGNORANT. Why not be silent about and leave us wondering, instead of confirming it for us as you and your leftist allies keep doing?

  • aesthete

    The conservative *ideology* is inconsistent and incoherent. Russell Kirk, Edmund Burke, and the founders of conservatism will tell you the exact same thing; Kirk called it an “anti-ideology” and saw it as a strength. I think it’s a weakness and a flaw in conservatism, and that it accounts for the holes in the ideology which several politicians have driven government boondoggles through. I said nothing about individuals (in fact, I’ve long said that I like most social conservatives on a personal level even as I disagree with them), and I said absolutely nothing about Christianity, which is outside the bounds of this conversation — I am a Christian, and Christianity is neither an ideology or the core of political conservatism.

    As far as our Founding Fathers go, they self-described and identified with the Radical Whigs — who were certainly not conservative in the context of British politics. Many of them were more Deist than Christian. What this has to do with the price of tangerines in the Ethiopian market, I don’t know.

  • civil truth

    I don’t have Facebook. But actually it’s not that I was going to the conference (I live in CA) but that I knew someone who was going and was trying to connect you. That’s all. That