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Dear Redstate Old-Timers

By: Dave Poff (haystack) (Diary)  |  December 28th, 2009 at 08:20 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I’m putting this on the front page. You RedState old-timers — those of you who’ve been around for a few years — need to read this. In fact, make this the one absolutely obligatory reading of your day if you are a long time RedState community member. — Erick

If you’ve been here less than 2 years – please – consider reading this diary and reserving comment. There are times in our lives when closing our mouths and opening our eyes and ears can benefit us a great deal…this might just be one of those times for some of you. Thanks much.

If you’ve been here more than 2 years, please-lend me your ears and your thoughts and commentary.

I just celebrated my 5th birthday at Redstate, and in thinking back over all that has happened here at the Mother ship, it occurs to me that the one thing that has separated us from the others is our class and our style and our polish…and the high standards we set for any who would participate in the RS community. Boy howdy but have we had our moments along the way though. I won’t list any usernames here, but you all know who they are. The one hit wonders, the 3 day savants, the name callers and the spammers and the bots…the calls to clean up toxic waste spills on aisle 5…

Just thinking about some of the characters that have dropped in on us for a short spell and peed on our carpet over the years makes me feel a little nostalgic in a masochistic sorta way. And I miss some of the funnier and more creative ways us old folks have gone about mocking them, or ridiculing them…or even just swatting them around for a little while reminiscent of a good ole fashioned redneck game of squirrel baseball.

But what makes me PROUD of Redstate is how we have evolved. Where we were once an up and coming community of like-minded Conservatives, we have become a nationally known website. Erick is a tv personality (and an elected politician), some of the other oldies have their own separate and successful websites…some do radio shows or podcasts…others, still, have moved up and moved on and are now actually getting paid real MONEY to do what the rest of us do just because we’re addicted to this blood sport called “political news, analysis, and commentary.”

As we move into 2010, we’re going to be relied upon, scrutinized, and watched closely…by a LOT of people. And, more singly focusing ourselves on activism…on the fight to push Conservatism BACK into our Party and hold our leaders and members accountable for their part in that fight…we need to remember-this isn’t a frat party anymore. We need our old folks to step up to the plate and do their part to keep this the go-to place, and that includes “how” we handle those short-timers that come and go around here for their own personal entertainment (however short their careers here will be when they do).

I think (and this is where I’m looking for input from you folks) that we need to focus our fight on the enemy that would see us pushed further into the wilderness, and ignore the amateurs and wannabes looking to chip away at our resolve. We need to invoke the Hinz rule (God rest him) rather than negatively engage these people. We all KNOW they’re going to show up in droves once the primarys heat up…and I suggest that the class and polish we want to continue to portray with this little side-project-that-made-the-big-time is more important than scoring a few comical retorts…or the inevitable degradation into name-calling.

Given how 2009 went down, 2010 promises to be our next moment to shine. How we act, how we handle ourselves in the fight ahead, will be a reflection on all of us…and will serve as the next opportunity for us to make this place the bedrock of the movement.

Thoughts?

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  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    Haystack,
    My thoughts are if you want to achieve the goals you speak of, assuming you aren’t one already, you ought to become a precinct committeeman. Do that first. Then all the rest.

    So should every other Redstater.

    Thank you.
    ColdWarrior

    • jckelly

      As a GOP chair in an INTENSELY blue town, I second this whole heartedly. It is also time for conservatives to get off of the couch and beyond the blog and RUN FOR OFFICE. Also to get ourselves onto local boards and commissions (ie zoning board, board of public works) which are nonelected but control much of the power to decide where tax dollars go. Check out what boards will have openings in January. Often you can get onto one just by applying For practical advice on running for office, check out the Smart Girl Politics site http://smartgirlpolitics.ning.com/.

      • Raven

        I won election this past November. Granted, it’s as a PA State Constable, but I’m getting there.
        I have also been “informed” that I will be a GOP committee chairman as of this Spring. Seems my work on a certain local someone’s campaign and my opinions at city council meetings have grabbed some attention…

      • Flagstaff

        They do a fine job.

    • seesalrun

      I came to Red State Atlanta this year after reading Red State for 3 plus years…been out of the loop for the last two months as my Son (21) was a victim of random violence in California and I finally got him home and am besieged with paperwork and finding proper care (he was uninsured and has serious head injuries).

      I’m not going to stroke your ego Erick. What you do is necessary – and if I wasn’t holding down a full time job and raising a 14 year old as a single parent – I WOULD LOVE to do what you do, all truth be told not near as well as you.

      I would like your readers to know I take small c&p of comments and am framing a “full view” of conservative reaction to 2008-2009. It is not pretty, but as long as people like you Erick, beat the drum, and renew and inspire, I still have hope.

      My lineage actually includes Paul Revere. We’re here. Inspire us all.

      Good Luck and God Speed and happy anniversary :)

  • JadedByPolitics

    WE FIGHT! I don’t think this site moved beyond just a daily reading for a few thousand to hundreds of thousands because WE were “gentile” like McConnell I believe it is because WE are the BASE of the Republican Party and WE are willing to take them DOWN along with the D Party…that WE along with millions upon millions of Americans have had ENOUGH of the political insiders and their DISRESPECT for WE The People and have found a home where WE can express that without having to hold the party line!

    Redstate is unlike any other site because the things WE have to say or WE know to be true WE can WRITE IT and then WE get people coming along saying I AGREE and they recommend and if you are lucky enough and enough people AGREE with what you have to say you are up top where ANYONE just popping in gets to put their eyes on your words and that action alone gives you REAL HOPE that things can change because of one little GRASSROOTER out here :)

    I know there has been many a day I have listened to Rush or Hannity or even Levin and heard reference to something I have read here and whether they are just thinking the same thing or they perused this site it is then being heard by 20 million people and that is exciting and enjoyable and it makes you KNOW IN YOUR HEART YOUR CAUSE IS TRUE!

    It has been amazing knowing you as you remind me of many family members I grew up with in the 70′s and those wild and crazy times WE had and the simplicity of youth (those days never come back).

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      We need to fight the Democrats out there in the world. Not the lost mushy Republicans who find their way onto our shores.

      Yeah, RedState moderation is a bit off lately due in no small part to Moe’s new baby. But that’s what emailing me is for. :-)

      Hinz Rule the trolls. Save the fight for the people that matter.

      • penguin2

        or moby in them. So, letting you know after the fact, is really cause we were trying very hard to be sure we got it right. :)

        But Hinz Rule certainly works for dealing with mushy Republicans!

  • Wubbies World

    I really have enjoyed the time here. I am not an active poster like Iuse to be but I have not gone away. My job has just become very demanding and takes a lot of my time.

    Yes, you post brings back a lot of memories

  • http://www.ufcle.com/willis/willis.htm Steven Willis

    And by that, I would include acronyms, e.g., WTF and such.

    One of the things that attracted me to this site more than four years ago was the strict policy on proper language and respect.

    I also like the WSJ comment sections; however, a few regulars there consistently use personal attacks on others and disrespectful language. I do not care for that and avoid commenting when it starts. I do not want to see that happen here.

    By all means, continue to quickly rid this site of trolls. Warn those who use profanity and personal attacks.

    Thank you for asking.

    • E Pluribus Unum

      I would agree with the sentiment of Mr (Dr?) Willis.

      The sign on the door says no profanity. Yet many of us (including me) use it directly, and many more of us use it obliquely.

      But the front-pagers set the tone, and it seems perfectly routine to see <font color=”red”damn, hell, bastard, and bitch, occasionally in the headline or subheader, BY the front pagers. And I’m not talking about having the vowels replaced with * either. I’m talking about fully spelled out. Right there in front of their mom, my mom, and most importantly, Caleb’s mom.

      It’s never necessary. NEVER. And we are subject to the complaint of n00bs, some of them trolls, who point out the hypocrisy of advertising “no profanity”.

      So, you want a classy joint. Then how about you guys LEAD a little bit with it. I can hold up my end.

      PS — I personally do not object to many forms of profane acronyms such as WTF, or the use of b*tches, etc. But that could be addressed later. First, we should see if we can put an end the use of direct, in-your-face profane and obscene words and terms.

      • E Pluribus Unum

        I hate you good.

        I muffed up the operative paragraph. Try it again:

        But the front-pagers set the tone, and it seems perfectly routine to see damn, hell, bastard, and bitch, occasionally in the headline or subheader, BY the front pagers. And I?m not talking about having the vowels replaced with * either. I?m talking about fully spelled out. Right there in front of their mom, my mom, and most importantly, Caleb?s mom.

        • E Pluribus Unum
          • Aaron Gardner

            Oh, and maybe you and I are both red-green color blind. ;)

          • E Pluribus Unum

            Mine is showing green, but it may be red for everybody else. as God is my witness, I had font color=”red”.

      • http://whereswalden.com/ Jeff Walden

        By way of background: I read the site to keep abreast of politics, current events primarily of the political nature, and to stay in the loop — don’t have time to listen to news, and being on the west coast means I’m timeshifted from most other sources. I mostly read passively via feed reader, occasionally visit to comment (not too often, usually threads are huge and old hat by the time I get around to reading — timeshift plus a not-decreasing-quickly backlog of other reading are killers), and am a general lurker who isn’t quite sure how to efficiently invest time in politics given that I’m in a solidly blue area (although the turnout at the one townhall meeting I visited was somewhat heartening, if probably futile — we knew how Eshoo would vote regardless what we said).

        I also share your concerns (although I had not noticed newbies pointing them out as hypocrisy occasionally), and if you look to my posting history you’ll see I try to respectfully raise them from time to time (I think there are at least three or four instances in my comments going back through this May if you check them now). I have a long but shallow history, so while I can speak confidently with some amount of certainty that I won’t be overhastily blammed as a passing troll ;-) , I recognize that if I speak too forcefully I’m likely to just be ignored (even if I’m otherwise in general agreement with the person with whom I’m interacting). I appreciate that others with deeper involvement and better recognized names feel the same way I do; it’s refreshing not to have to deal with the usual Internet morass here, although I too have noticed a slight trickle of it making its way into front-page posts in the past, and to a slightly larger degree more recently.

        Regarding degrees to which you refer, I tend to think direct quotation alone, when trying to communicate exact wording, in circumstances where we can be absolutely certain what was said, is the only acceptable case for such language (example: the recent Schumer incident); clarity of communication in factual matters is of primary importance in such cases. If you have some other instance in which you want to express strong feeling, use a so-called grawlix like #@^(#@ or a suitable euphemism. The key, I think, is that you shouldn’t imply a particular word you wouldn’t say. Referring to a recent TV series, what’s the difference in the listener’s mind between “motherfrakker” and the obscene term it clearly mimics? (Never mind that the TV raters probably accorded the artificial difference some importance.) Some terms like snafu have transcended their origins, but they’re the sole exception (and indeed, I can’t think of another word but that one which might qualify).

        (BTW, responding to the original post, I apparently have been registered for 2 years, 0 months, so I’m right on the cusp of legitimacy in responding. :-) )

  • Gengisdon

    although in the fellow traveler sort of way. :-)

    As a former regular poster and regular lurker, I will say I miss some of the old guard’s rather evocative destruction of morons, right and left (but usually left) who drifted upon this site. These days the humor seems to be a bit more strained, and the mods (granted, overworked and underpaid) seem to have exchanged the rapier for the warhammer when it comes to disagreements. But as I have said before, your house your rules. I miss Thomas, though.

    I also lament, even as Jaded celebrates, that the moderates on Redstate have grown scarce. I still enjoy reading the posts, and this place serves as my counterweight on the right to balance what I read in other places, but the spectrum has shifted to the extent I think one strain of conservatism sometimes drowns out the other voices. But it appears that is by intent, and I can appreciate what it is you all do here. Regardless of the policy disagreements, the motivation to make the country better remains the same between many of us, left or right. I also know not all here agree with that statement, but I said it anyway. :-)

    So, from an old-time member of the opposition, I salute you for your continued excellence. I haven’t found another big website that isn’t either all talking points or strange Republican apologistia.

    • Paul Cella

      You’re the best liberal we’ve ever had around here.

      • Gengisdon

        Man, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen you here.

        By the way, your quote turned me on to Chesterton a few years ago, which had somehow been left out of my school-aged literary diet. Always appreciated that.

    • Vladimir
      • Gengisdon

        No, but sometimes my friends (who gave me the title out of a Risk game in which I obsessed about Asia) put some twang in it and call me Gangisdon….

        • seesalrun

          was South America for me, Mr. Gengisdon. And I most always won, placing my heand in N and S America, pulling it out of Brazil.

  • wolfgang

    “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice
    Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” BGoldwater

  • Marcus_Traianus

    So I have been a myrmidon for some time now. And if the word “evolution” is acceptable to my fellow social conservatives, then I would certainly say RS been through that process over the past several years.

    However, the issue becomes that many times you have to “live it” to “understand it”. Accordingly , the few paragraphs you put together don’t even come close to explaining how far this site has come since the days of Ben, et al. Does anyone else miss the acid wit of Thomas and how he disposed of trolls? Ah, yes the good ole Pleistocene days.

    Being nostalgic for a moment, the complaint used to be the trigger was pulled too quick on some of these folks. Nowadays, IMO, we are a little slow on the draw and to willing to engage in pig pile, deconstructive engagement (as you noted). Often, one can read down a thread and afterward wish they would have proactively burned their eyes out with a hot poker- all along longing for an invocation of the old “Cleanup in Aisle 5″ and plethora of posters who “once upon a time” waited for the street sweeper instead of adding to the mess. I know it’s old-fashioned, but RS may want to consider a low tolerance on troll-feeding. Oh and I know it’s controversial, but also delete the whole carpet stain.

    Remember our founders purposely said “in order to form a more perfect union”- they didn’t say “the” perfect union. Even they knew that perfection only exists in the almighty. So stop searching for it. This place is doing fine.

    To the youngsters; hold your fire unless you have the kill shot. Wait for reinforcements, the landlords are always around the corner. Facts are friends. Breath before you comment and ask yourself; will what I am about to post add to the debate and make a material contribution or confuse, obfuscate or possibly mislead others.

    • seesalrun

      To the youngsters; hold your fire unless you have the kill shot. Wait for reinforcements, the landlords are always around the corner. Facts are friends. Breath before you comment and ask yourself; will what I am about to post add to the debate and make a material contribution or confuse, obfuscate or possibly mislead others. – Marcus

      learn love and live it.

  • http://jeffemanuel.net Jeff Emanuel
  • Michael Dugas

    in the just over 4 years I’ve been here is a lot more than just how we deal with drive bys and trolls. I mean lets be real here, as far as flame wars or other forms of out of control discourse, Redstate doesn’t even rate. And that’s a great thing! Some small conflicts I’ve witnessed here are not even close to some of the hold no bars anything goes battles I’ve witnessed at ,IMO, lesser sites.
    What keeps me logging in day after day is the high level of discussions and debates and the lack of any sort of nasty, waste of my time, hate fests. And believe me when I tell you that the Lefty Bloggers HATE that. This site does a better than average job at dealing with the trash and I believe that as long as we self moderate as we do we will be seen, by those who matter, as fine.
    On a separate point maybe we could call ourselves Long Timers instead of Old Timers. At my age I don’t need another shingle with the adjective “Old” hanging around my neck……=)

  • tankertodd

    I’ve been on here for over 5 years but I can’t say I’m active enough to know all the drama that others do. I check this site among many others (newest: Big Government) and I enjoy the community. Not all of us read every single thing. As much as I like the ability to write diaries, I don’t read very many other people’s diaries unless promoted. I don’t think too many read my diaries either. Perhaps we need a wider net for promoting diaries?

    I think the troll threat is overstated. I find them funny. Plus, they usually make the arguments that family and friends make. Since we should be trying to convert the foolish, trolls are in some respect practice for some of us. I know some of these arguments are so nuts I find myself stammering at stupidity, and the stammering to the Bill Maher crowd equates to a poor argument, hence reinforcing their stupidity. I have some close family members who are deeply deluded and if I can’t reach them, who will?

    Perhaps we need to track closer the precinct committeeman project? I looked into it in my region but information was hard to come by. It would be helpful to raise this initiative up to keep folks like me motivated to pursue it. I assume that most people will have the same roadblocks to overcome and the community could help each other out.

  • janis

    And I’ve noticed the changes as much as the rest of the “old folks.” For me, I think the changes have come about due to the huge changes in the political fortunes of the Republican Party.

    When RS was newborn, Republicans were on top. The economy was good, taxes were relatively low, and America was heading in more or less the right direction. We had more patience for moderates back then and entertained the likes of flyerhawk, pliny, and other leftys regularly. After the “Non-Campaign of John McCain” however, the tolerance for moderates in the R party here evaporated like mist on a hot July morning.

    We have now endured almost a full year of the most anti-American administration in our history and we are collectively enraged/terrified/rendered hopeless on a daily basis by the actions of a government which has determined that we are nonentities. Bad enough to be dismissed as domestic terrorists by Obama and Co., but then we have what is purported to be our side dismissing us as well. It’s not a climate that favors moderation as we are being pushed, sometimes by the hour, toward radicalism on both the left and the right. What was once contemplated in rhetorical terms is now spoken of as a coming reality. And the moderates who claim the “leadership” roles in the Republican Party are doing nothing to stop the freight train of disaster that is barreling toward us.

    RedState’s continued movement to the right has been necessary as it is a reflection of where the base of the party lives and breathes. I do not apologize for helping to uphold those values, but I will apologize for the times that I have contributed to lowering the IQ and raising the blood pressure at times at RedState. And I will certainly do all I can to ignore what I can manage to, respond with intelligence where possible, and then resort to sticking pins in dolls with names on them while muttering bad words in private.

    • penguin2

      sticking the pins in those dolls, else where will all the fun be! As a newcomer, I am not familiar with the older battles and vigorous debates. I have seen vigorous discussions now, and hot moments and a fire or too, but we are good folk here, and I expect that we can resolve issues.

      It sounds like Haystack is trying to warn us about what is coming and how much we may be infiltrated en mass.

      Janis, we can work on our “butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth” method….

      • janis

        Not to mention that I really don’t need the extra calories that working with butter will entail. :-)

        As to sticking the pins in, I’ll just leave a little notice up when I’m doing that, “Gotta run, pins await….”

    • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada
  • http://dezignworx-ae.com tsquare

    4 years and 9 months… gee how the time flies when you’re having fun.

    My advice is from the Godfather… It’s not personal, it’s only business.

    Don’t hate them… defeat them. More to the point, don’t make it LOOK like it’s personal. Especially when it is.

  • bs

    Cut the insults.

    I have no issue with beating up someone who is obviously a left-wing Democrat interloper that will be banned in short order. In fact, when that happens, don’t even engage them – simply send a note to the Contact link.

    What I do have issue with is the beatings that are administered to those who are (at least somewhat) on our side but who disagree on key points. We can disagree. And when we disagree, the exchanges do not have to be antagonistic. Use facts. Use examples. Use citations. Do NOT use insults.

    Ridicule seldom wins an argument. But it does drive away those who can be useful in our cause. And remember: the cause of Redstate is conservative and Republican. In both of those, there is a vast continuum of beliefs that back them. We need to be respectful of those at different ends of the spectrum, and when we disagree with them, we should do it with respect, not ridicule.

    • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada
    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
      • Tbone

        Don’t worry, your sight will soon be restored. :-)

    • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

      I’ve tried a few recently only to see them get lost in the “no YOU are…, NO YOU ARE” responses.

      That said, on the rare occasion where its warranted, even I like to see someone put in their place. Personally, I’d rather watch Moe do that. It’s at least half the reason why I come here.

      • Flagstaff

        your reasoned responses are simply irrefutable.

        That’s what I always assume when nobody answers me. If you want responses, throw in some tyops. At least in the older days that was usually good for a friendly correction.

    • Anteater

      .

  • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada

    I came here because I needed a home.

    But I’m not saavy about the sub-culture and debates that are going on in the deeper threads because I’m not interested in following invidiual “fights.”

    I had to folllow janis’s “truly sad person” blip & saw the sort of deeper, argumentive thread that you regulars are talking about.

    I had never gone into deeper threads, I’m here to read and know what is spoken of with authority through the diaries and front-page posts — and I *understand* that the comments section is commentary and will get heated because .. we’re American. We debate.

    Look – to me, the arguing doesn’t detract from what Redstate is. Arguing with moderates that need to be .. corrected .. is an emboldening example to everyone else.

    ..but fault me for not being on top of the arguing threads. Maybe there are WTFs and other pot shots, but that doesn’t concern me.

    I don’t think it concerns the 18-35 ppl who may venture in and we need to attract and keep in the conservative base.

    Truly, I am concerned about them, because Obama and the dems woke up vicious machine during the ’08 election .. and right now, they’re leaderless and feel abandoned by Obama because he’s failed to further engange in their “hope.”

    We need to awaken our own conservative beast with the younger set .. and that means being pithy, interesting, quippy, smart and engaging.

    I wouldn’t change a “darn” thing .. maybe just tone down the cussing if it’s too apparent.

    I’ll do my part.

    • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada

      .. focus on who you want to attract and keep on the site?

      Conservatisism isn’t supposed to be an exclusive club.

      And then I consdier how our enemy operates. Lefties are very inclusive.

      • Richard Mullins

        not the feeling type conservatives. It’s all about using the brain. That’s where the leftists want to put us as dunderheads and no-nothings. I personally will not from now on engaging the feeling type conservatives and to an extent Trolls. Other than that, we know what we are as conservatives.

        • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada

          Granted.. a majority of Americans don’t think and are .. “trendists” and follow “the fad.”

          It’s not enough to speak over them — where they perceive all conservatives as lecturiing parents and, thusly, drown you ou.

          I’m thinking of a ladder.

          We need those to engage .. and as the weak mind grows strong, they will move up the ranks and engage in “thinking conservative” discussion.

          A consdieration .. tho I count myself among those with less patience for the feeble-minded.

          • Richard Mullins

            That’s farther from the truth. I don’t mind passionate thinking conservatives however. Lazy minds don’t help us.

          • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada

            i’m talking about moderate and independents who don’t identify w/ the left and need to be swayed by stronger reason.

            sometimes it begins by appealing to “feelings.”

            like food and drink.

            bread and circus? woo them back from the propaganda. train their minds.

            Really, Richard. Think of political intellygunce on the bell-curve.

            Not everyone can be like “us” and you have to grin and bear it w/ the dolts at some point.

            Compassion and mercy for the stupid, not the evil.

        • smagar

          I personally will not from now on engaging the feeling type conservatives

          Thanks

          • Richard Mullins

            I’m sure you’ve seen them around the ones that try to open their mouths and type away while not even thinking about what they type about. I don’t put you in that category so I’ll engage you. I will not engage those like clowngirl or any of her ilk. We want those that use the mind. We don’t need to end up like Kos or something like that.

          • cardcarryingmom

            (Upfront, I apologize for posting to this diary and being the “feeling type”, I will feel guilty about it all day long. No joke!)

            The “feeling type” is me. I mostly read RS and don’t comment much because I am not a lawyer, politician or anything resembling a political expert and Praise God for that! I happen to know *intuitively* what is right and I *feel it physically*. But, I cannot site Article, Section, Part on why an issue is correct or incorrect. Finally, I am listening to my *intuition* because for decades now, my intuition has been spot on.

            My physical reaction to potus’ voice at 04 DNC convention, was an instant headache and a shivering body. (I actually got a headache. I actually shivered.) Silent tears streamed down my face (w/no boo hoo) as I watched both the House and Senate take over 1/6th of our economy. Since 2000, I haven’t slept well – literally!

            Here on RS, I am trying now to learn the “legal side” of why what I *intuitively feel* is, in fact, wrong. It is a distraction to sort through personal attacks, cussing and the like.

            To Mr. Richard Mullins: Rest assured I am not dumb and I’m quite sure you don’t want to ignore “the feeling type”. I might not contribute what you and other RSers consider to be *intellectual*, but I assure you, you have no better ally! So, go ahead — ignore me, but heed this warning: there is grave danger ahead and alienation of anyone who is like minded will not do!

            PS to Old Time RSers: Forget the trolls and the mobys, they are the ones who should be ignored . . . Focus on the rest of us, who genuinely want to understand. Answer our questions in a non-attack kind of way, no matter how “ignorant” you may think the question is. Don’t shout while doing it and don’t be conscending about it. Support our general enthusiasm and desire to re-build this nation! I am begging you . . .

          • Flagstaff

            I am trying now to learn the ?legal side? of why what I *intuitively feel* is, in fact, wrong right.

            ?

  • http://www.MicheliforGovernor.com WY_Cowboy

    and rare poster, reading this web site, and now Erick’s morning briefings, has become part of may daily routine now for more than four years. I remember I recieved a language warning from Erick on the very first comment I posted. I was a little embarrassed at that point, but came to appreciate what that warning meant quickly there after (I can’t remember the username I was using at the time. As a result of software updates to the site and my frequency of logging in and other factors out of my control, I forgot the password and/or usernames to at least two profiles).

    The best part about this web site to me is the front page commentary and, dare I say, reporting. Smacking around morons was entertaining, but that kind of thing appeals to a narrow audience. The fact the RS has become a top notch news breaker and a true opinion leader is what has made it so successful.

    So, I agree, fight the bad guys and the bad stuff they are trying to do to America, and help identify the good guys that need help across the country. Do not feed the trolls, and do not make banning them from the web site the primary focus of some of the old-timers. Kick them out when possible AND convenient. It might be helpful to also remind some of us to not feed the trolls from time to time. It might be possible that some of us may not recognize right away who the trolls as compared to those who are just passionate about the particular subject at hand.

    Finally, and I admit this is self-serving, Red State needs to endorse Ron Micheli for governor of Wyoming in 2010. He is the only candidate in the GOP primary who is not pursuing a life-long ambition of obtaining high elective office. In addition, he is the only true social-conservative, fiscal-conservative, and constitutional-conservative in the race. Soon, he is going to report some eye-popping fundraising numbers (for Wyoming), and demonstrate his strength as a grassroots, conservative movement candidate.

    So, how do we get the old-timers in touch with my candidate? ron@micheliforgovernor.com

    • http://www.MicheliforGovernor.com WY_Cowboy
  • http://www.MicheliforGovernor.com WY_Cowboy
  • http://www.MicheliforGovernor.com WY_Cowboy
  • jeffreywturner

    One of the things that drew me to RS several years ago was the fact that the moderators do not take sides and try to quash honest debate.

    My first foray into this arena (political blogs, etc.) was on the online chat site of a particular blonde bomb-thrower of the right. I think Lou Dobbs, Tom Tancredo and Pat Buchanan must be the moderators on that site. Literally, even the slightest sign of sympathy shown to illegal immigrants would draw an immediate rebuke and possible banning by the first moderator who noticed it. Honestly, that site seemed more like a place for like-minded people to stroke each other’s egos rather a forum for honest debate.

    When I came to RS on the other hand, I noticed that as long as the debate was honest (ie: no lefties pretending not to be lefties), the moderators would be just that, moderators, and not just ideological hacks waiting to pounce at the first sign of dissent. However, our moderators are still quick to vanquish trolls and other troublemakers, so I don’t think we are deficient.

    Anticipating the influx of idiots that will come with the primaries in a few months, we can do a few things that I can think of:

    First, remain vigilant and just double and redouble our efforts to quickly identify and eliminate the troublemakers.

    Second, we could institute a rope-a-dope scheme, under which once or twice per week, one of the moderators would make a short “red-meat” posting on the front page designed to do nothing but draw out trolls and troublemakers (anything relating to abortion or Sarah Palin should do the trick). Then, that same moderator could just hang out on that posting for an hour or so and pick-off the rats as the go for the cheese. (Note: if we use Palin as the bait, we need to come up with a code-word to let Achance and Mbecker know that the posting is just a trap for trolls, so they won’t waste their time seething and getting their blood pressure up over it)

    Finally (and please tell me if we already do this), there has to be something we can do with cookies or IP addresses to eliminate, or at least cut down on repeat offenders.

  • Tbone

    to the quality writings and thoughts presented by the Directors and better posters. Most would agree that I have been successful in this thankless endeavor.

    I do miss Thomas and flyerhawk.

    • janis

      Whatever else can be said of you, you never pull your punches and you don’t bow to the prevailing wisdom. It’s what I find so endearing about you.

      Besides, you occasionally make me look polite and non-confrontational in comparison. :-)

    • itrytobenice

      But I miss Thomas and Nick Danger. And Blackhedd and the horserace blogger.

      But to everyone else, thanks for keeping RS informative and classy. I promise I have a couple of diaries rattling around in my head that I’m going to try to post someday.

      And I’m a precinct chairman for the 3rd year and encourage you all to do the same. Regular meetings are a good chance to influence some of your moderate (aka frightened of the truth) cohorts to stand up for conservative principles.

      • Flagstaff
  • smagar

    It seems as if Neil and the moderators have pretty much killed them off.

    Yes, sure, they pop up—but they get squashed quickly. At least that’s how it seems to me.

    When I read through the comments, I don’t see many disagreeing voices. Everyone pretty much seems to be on the same page, and of the same mindset.

    • haystack

      it’s HOW we deal with them that needs to be watched more closely. Disagreeing voices is one thing-not everyone agrees all the time (as Jaded alludes to further up-thread). It’s in HOW we conduct the debate that I’m interested in doing well-with class and a little dignity (once we establish that honest debate is what the commenters are truly after).

      Yep-the problem children are going to start showing up in droves soon enough-I want to make sure we “think” before we speak, and when we DO speak, we do so in a way that is consistent with what we expect from everyone else.

      • smagar
      • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

        A friend of mine came here, posted a pretty good diary and some quite thought provoking comments. The trouble is that he is, AT BEST a “moderate conservative”. He holds quite strong fiscal conservatism, but socially, not so much. He was, after a bit of commentary that was as I read it respectful, but did not meet the “purity test” he was pounced upon, and subsequently banned. I don;t completely disagree with this, however, as the conservative base grows with more middle oriented individuals, less than “conservative enough” voices may get run off.

        It’s too bad we can;t search RS2.0, as Neil and I had some good rows concerning the Maricopa County Sheriff, Joe Arpaio. The point is that not everyone will be in alignment on every position that comes forward. Certainly I don;t want to promote intolerance towards those that are not as conservative as others.

        Just a thought.

        • bs

          as long as “tolerance” is not defined as “immune from disagreement”. This is the whole point – we can disagree without resorting to condescension, name-calling and other tactics that mask an inability to make a case. But the person who voices the unpopular opinion had better be prepared to have their beliefs challenged.

          In the case you cite, I would fully expect many here to disagree with a social liberal. I’ve done it many times myself. Hopefully that person knows that they are not necessarily going to be received by a friendly audience. I believe we’re trying to get folks to be more respectful, but not necessarily accepting.

          • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

            If anything is “off about RS these days is a certain “laxness” to the posting rules lately. This could be directly related to the more activist approach which is supposed to stir emotional over cerebral response.

            However, I don;t want to return to the days of 20 inch posts capable of peer review scrutiny that garner 3 comments; I can get that at NewLedger.

        • penguin2

          meet the purity test.” He may have been “pounced” upon phxg, but that would not mean banning. So maybe there are two different issues being brought up here, and not knowing the diary, cannot say for sure. I have only seen banning occur when it is really egregious attitude either on the part of the diarist or the commenter. Somewhere in the thread is the fact the mods have been neutral, and let the disagreements go on, on less it gets out of hand, or someone actually breaks a rule that just cannot be ignored. I think one thing that is also being overlooked in all of this, is the fact that some posters are here in bad faith. Their goals and agenda is not that of the site, and then they badmouth the site, because it is not doing what they think it should be doing. And in the interest of goodwill, phxg. please let me emphasize no reflection on what you said, but your comment seemed a good place to bring this aspect up. :)

          • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

            The offending thread is here: http://www.redstate.com/warner_todd_huston/2009/04/14/obamas-intel-services-more-worried-about-right-wing-terror-than-islamists/

            And I don;t disagree that he brought most of it on himself. However, I too was placed in a similar situation because I failed to support “Americas Toughest Sheriff” by those who can’t see thru his ineptitude. Disagreeing with one person/official who a Director supports can produce a bad outcome. And as long as the argument has merit, it shouldn’t. Even though Weave’s did not.

          • penguin2

            And I took it the same way Neil and others did, I felt that Weave was trying to attach Timothy McVeigh with the Right, just the way he started out his first post title and comments. The problem, he did not back off and IMO wanted to make that association. Now one could discuss the merits of his beliefs being at odds with the site admin. but there are certain lines that the site admin will not allowed to be crossed and that is to protect the site, from disingenuous and outright deliberate distortions.

            The other day a poster used a word that had a very negative association with a Va. senatorial candidate and actually cost the guy the election. That poster has scampered in and used the word in two different posts, with nothing else. Two members asked him about that, he did not respond, but another newer (?) poster challenged me on my calling the guy on it, and said I couldn’t prove it was a racist remark. I finally told him that cultural sensitivity was my conscience and letting that word be flung about, out of context, and associated with RS, is a negative. I believe that if that behavior continues on the part of the poster, a mod will call him on it.

            The admin and mods of this site take responsibility for the site seriously, and I am glad.

          • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

            It’s a tough row to hoe. And at what point does a disagreement over policy of
            an single official become an attack over conservative principles which should
            include a moderator to clarify/dispel. At what point can a commenters “conservative
            credentials” on a topic be beyond reproach? Number of posts, years on the site or favorable view by the moderator.

            It’s not a task I would want and as RS continues to grow the challenge will become more problematic for he who does moderate. All I can say for sure is that everyone should follow the posting rules and decorum in order to remain.

          • Flagstaff

            As a result I re-read an excellent comment by Martin Knight.

            Martin is one of those people like Charles Krauthammer–he thinks and writes clearly and avoids the obvious unless it helps him make his point. And his points are darn near irrefutable. We need more product from Martin–do we have some links?

          • penguin2

            Martin pointed out the disingenuous use of the non sequitur in that case and I guess that fits with the moral relativism that the Left likes to bring to the argument. I always read what Martin Knight has to say, as you noted in the realm of Charles Krauthammer. I guess it is that wonderful intellectualism and able to express it!

          • penguin2

            Though the Left’s moral relativism enables them to think in terms of moral equivalency.

          • Flagstaff

            I was mostly impressed by this sentence:

            standard issue conservative positions on hot button issues have now officially… been deemed ?extreme?

            It seems a clear strategy to marginalize conservative discourse and opinion, but the LSM has never picked up on it.

            I’m one of Martin’s biggest fans, as you might be able to tell.

  • HappyBunny

    when his bp goes up.

    And I’ve got Neil’s email address somewhere in my bunny cave.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      You’re free to open fire when leftys come. :-)

  • George Neitz

    And proud of it , I have been here just four years and have watched the transitions and growth of this site with great happiness.
    I do miss some of our departed members but am happy to see many more new and exciting to read members.
    One of the best things done was to limit new members to being here for a period till they could comment I think that slowed the moby’s and trolls down markedly.

  • lgraas

    This post doesn’t describe the Red State I know. The Red State I know doesn’t follow its own rules of discourse but applies a double standard against those who dissent. Or am I wrong about that? It’s just been my experience here………and the experience of several of my compatriots in the blogosphere.

    I am told Red State is a lost cause. I decided to give Red State a second chance and started a diary under my real name. It’s a pretty basic newsy report on a poll here in Kentucky, but it’s still not published. I’m thinking I’m simply not welcome at Red State.

    My ‘crime’ was in taking issue with the moderators continually allowing ad hominem attacks despite the policy “Be respectful or be banned”. I have gotten the strong impression that Red State is not about civil discourse and reasoned debate. It’s about promoting particular factions while others are demeaned.

    Am I wrong? Have I misjudged? If I have, I’m not alone because I’ve heard the same experiences from others who have tried to be a part of Red State without success.

    Wish I knew how to change it, but I do not.

    • Aaron Gardner
    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      I’m closing this one and you can use the old Lisa Graas one instead. Hit the Contact link up top if you have trouble accessing it.

    • Michael Dugas

      Considering how I and MY compatriots are treated when we are drawn to make a comment on a left leaning sight. The amount of hateful speech and general nastiness I see at say dKos or Dem Underground far far FAR out does ANYTHING that has happened here.
      Besides this was a post directed at long time members and not someone such as yourself who has no cause to even be posting here
      on this string. The post obviously wasn’t asking you for your input so basically you are high jacking a post…….no?
      Nice enough eh….
      BTW trying to draw one of us into an argument so you can go “SEE” you don’t follow your own rules is sorta…i dunno….lame maybe?

    • Martin Knight

      All too often, liberals and Paultards register and oh-so-politely level accusations of racism, fascism and many other isms at the regulars, the GOP and conservatism in general and then shriek that responders are not being “respectful” when they rightfully land on them like a ton of bricks.

      It goes both ways.

      The other part of it is that the standards are high here. You don’t come in without a well-thought through argument without getting leaped on. If you don’t know what you’re blabbering about (such as the actual meaning of “ad hominem”), you’re in for a torrid time.

      So if you don’t feel welcome here, you probably need to catch up is what is the matter.

      • JadedByPolitics

        ……….

      • Beasley Beesmeal

        much more powerful than regular 5′s….handle with care

  • Vladimir

    I’m thinking there’s a corollary needed to that old saw attributed (prob. falsely) to Winston Churchill, about “Not liberal at 20, no heart/Not conservative at 40, no brain”. What happens over the next 20 years?

    My personal views were a lot more strident when I was 35. Kind of like my dad’s co-worker who told him “I understand that there’s two sides to every question, but why is it that the other side is always so stupid?”

    A lot of the gang-piles here at RS take on that tone.

    I hate it when RS becomes a game of “more conservative than thou”. Case in point: a recent diary by Moe on the topic of coal mining in West Virginia. Commenter smagar, who’s been around these parts longer than I have, expressed personal views that were, let’s say, “greener” than the views of a lot of RS regulars. An online scrum ensued.

    So what? We can’t tolerate that much diversity of opinion? Smagar doesn’t have to defend his conservative cred.

    Passion is a good thing. I think we’re all passionate about politics/policy or we wouldn’t be here. Let’s temper our passion with wisdom.

    • Achance

      that must be extirpated from the Party, from Redstate, from life itself. You probably even support the Main Street Partnership! You might even be a liberal, establishment Republican. You mean like that? How’d I do?

      • SteveLA

        Art,

        You left out elements of your homage.

        There’s nothing there about failure to follow the Face Book postings of your favorite political from Alaska…. :)

        • Achance

          Mentioning She Who Was Once Governor brings ‘em like stink on … and I ain’t in the mood for it.

      • Vladimir
    • Michael Dugas

      I do think that some discussions get a bit more heated because they are being fed by the anger and feelings of helplessness some are having due to the current direction this country is being steered by this administration. We all can fall victim to that at times. And these are certainly those kind of times.

    • smagar

      Redstate is The Contributors’ house. We visit at their pleasure. If you displease one of them, be ready to stop doing whatever you’re doing that displeases them, immediately.

      It’s just like visiting your friends’ house. When you’re a visitor, you do as the house’s owner says. It’s their house. They pay the bills and keep the lawn cut. If you don’t like it, you can leave—as Neil is quick to point out, with relish.

      Neil has been very clear—-this is now a site for activists. And, activists need focus and singularity of purpose…and discipline.

      I’m reminded of the movie Gladiator. Just before Maximus attacked the Germanic strongold, he looked at his troops and remarked that they were “lean and hungry.”

      I get the sense that Erick and Neil are trying to use Redstate to build a lean, hungry Felix Legion of conservative activists for the 2010 and 2012 campaigns. IMO they’ve succeeded.

      Personally, I miss the more collegial days on this site. But, I no longer think of this site as a debating club, where differences are aired and encouraged, and ideas are developed. I now think of it as a training camp, where troops are preparing for battle.

      While I miss the old days, I must admit—we are in a fight, and we do need fighters. IMO Erick and Neil have built a fine fighting force here.

      I still plan to disagree, if I feel it’s really warranted. However, I know who’s in charge here, and I’m ready to fall into ranks when told.

      Thanks to Vladimir and Achance and SteveLA for the kind words.

      • aesthete

        I don’t really have a problem with the shift from collegial debate to activism, as it means that RS will contribute more effectively to the “good fight”, but I’d be lying if I said that there was nothing to miss about the old RS. I’m particularly not fond of attacks on a person for deviance from conservative orthodoxy, as is wont to happen from time to time, but as you said, we’re guests in the Contributors’ house, and should behave accordingly.

  • SteveLA

    My suggestion, two improvements to the way RS works.

    1) 24 hour waiting period for new registrants being able to post. This might stop the something happens in the news which draws the liberals out for a quick hit posting/pee on the carpet stupid people trick.

    2) Rankings tool, like over on Slash Dot, which is sort of a threshold of comment displayed based on the rankings of others.

    Maybe not so simple to implement in the software that runs the site, but might help keep the noise down a bit during the coming primary storm.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      I finally got clearance to put that in place ahead of election day last year.

      It’s helped a lot dealing with retreads.

      #2 we tried long ago but it didn’t seem to help.

      • SteveLA
      • Richard Mullins

        but the trolls and the feeling conservatives what to do there dirty work. I’m going to start doing my best to not feed them and work on attracting the thinking(that doesn’t pointy headed intellectuals) conservatives. We’re not dealing with mental midgets because the other sides likes to purge them out.

        • bs

          Used to be, during periods of heavy activity, it was inevitable that we’d get half a dozen or more new registrants that would immediately post a troll-diary and we’d immediately have to gak them. With the waiting period, they can’t drop their poop on the floor in the current discussion – they have to wait ’til later. I think this is what’s behind a few of the “sleeper cell” leftists that we get on occasion now – they registered, thinking they would be able to troll right away, and once they discover it wouldn’t work, they just leave their IDs dormant until the next time they see a target. So it’s not perfect, but it’s MUCH better than before.

          • SteveLA

            bs

            ‘Back in the day, don’t you hate that expression, there used to be explosions of the drive by sort of posting which were triggered by something happening in the media, stopped for the most part now. I didn’t inquire as to why, just thought it was Liberals getting tired of the game, but seems the Site Elf’s were at work. ( Hey it’s still the Holiday season so an Elf reference).

          • Richard Mullins

            That way we can weed out those sleeper cells. Also, we seem to have a fair share of spam diaries around here. They happen in the dead of night and we have to fight that. It’s just like weeds in a lawn.

          • acat

            The line is pretty fine…

            Not that I disagree with purity tests, mind. There ought to be some things that those in the big tent agree upon – the least of which being that we don’t want it to collapse – but .. taken too far …

            Mew

          • Scope

            I don’t think that would work any better than Erick thought it would work for determining who the “real” conservatives are. It encourages lying.

  • Ahab

    How does one get a post into Red State? Not necessarily a comment to someone else’s post, but one of your own?

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
    • Achance
      • Scope

        n/t

  • Oz

    I have no idea how long I’ve been around … a long time though at least since 2002 I think and maybe before that.

    I tend to go against the grain of redstate on two particular manners:

    1) I don’t believe in putting up conservatives in states where they can’t win and a moderate may be able to (Maine, Illinois, California). Yeah, I know that NJ is the counter example to what I am saying and maybe 2010 will be one of those elections where we can put a conservative up in California (or wherever) and win … but frankly I don’t think that’s a plan that can last. I think that I’ll take a 5/8ths or 3/4 conservative (known here as a moderate or liberal) ala the Maine girls or the Oregon guy…. at least in the Senate where they tend to at least vote for the judges and give us control of the chamber. Don’t underrate chamber control.

    2) I believe in America first in the jobs area as well as other areas. In redstate, we tend to have a lot of Cham-Cons who don’t care if jobs are exported a broad.

    These are the things I get beat up for from time to time and really I don’t mind the beatings … BUT … I do think that if we can’t handle even that much dissent from someone who is pro-life, strong military, small government, etc then we are going to have problems.

    The final area that I think we need to do is to treat our primary candidates (especially when we get to 2012) with RESPECT and that has been sorely lacking around here.

    Frankly, I could launch a personal attack quite easily at all of the current 2012 candidates (Palin, Pawlenty, Huckabee, Romney) and non-candidates (Guiliani, Jindal, etc) but I just don’t get the point. Can we focus on why we like our own candidates? Not apparently from the front page savages of Carly (who I personally dislike more than most of you given my time at HP with her) or even from Huck’s attempt to explain himself.

    So if we want this to be a better site as we head into 2010 and beyond, I think that:

    a) The front pagers and long termers have to take the lead.

    b) We need to focus on respecting people. If we disagree then it should be issue based or at least factually based.

    c) We need to spend far more time arguing against the Dems than against our fellow Republicans.

    d) The whole 3rd party thing just needs to be a non-starter.

    • bs

      to your 4 points

      a) The front-pagers had an extended discussion about this over the last few days. We agree.
      b) Agreed, thus this diary and my comment earlier.
      c) To an extent, yes. However, you will find an almost universal belief here that the primaries are an ideal time to argue between Republicans. That’s what primaries are for. Since Redstate is (as I noted above) both a conservative AND GOP advocacy site, you will see much support for the conservative alternative, even in places where you might believe a conservative can’t win. The CA senatorial primary is an obvious example.
      d) Agreed, and you should note that the moderators enforce this heavily. 3rd party talk is usually squashed immediately.

      • mbecker908

        Franz Prince of Dogness is talking about running in ’12 and he likes the idea of a DOG party. Since he’s got a fair amount of support built in here, including at least one moderator, you may want to rethink that rule or at least throw in a reasonable exception.

        • bs

          Clyde agrees with you.

    • haystack

      read bs’s response. We are all on the same page methinks.

    • AngryMatt

      Especially on the respect point and the fight against the left rather than those who aren’t “pure” enough for some. That doesn’t mean we don’t talk about the good things that could come from a Rubio primary/general election win or get involved when guys like Chuck DeVore get the shaft from the NRSC, but our tent does need to be a bit bigger when it comes to this site. Not “elect anyone with a ‘R’ next to his name bigger” but you guys know what I mean.

      I think RS does a great job of bringing civility and class to political discussion at the grassroots level. Just one glance at DK and FDL and anyone with even an ounce of respect for decorum can see who is “unhinged” and who is merely passionate. We need to emulate the Democrat Netroots in some ways, but must not be as quick to level friendly fire against our side and certainly not level said fire in the despicable ways that they do (see: trying to get Lieberman’s wife fired from her charity gig). I figure that with 2010 shaping up the way it is, there will be calls to do just that since we’ll have the wind at our backs and can “afford” to do it politically, but it’s not only stupid it’s simply wrong.

      Let’s keep most of our powder dry for the real enemy, blast it at them with cool facts and insightful analysis instead of hyperbole and profane name-calling. If someone on our side does something egregious, let’s call them on it but if they recant, let’s take them at their word and let it go.

      And obviously, calls for a third party are asinine and anyone who tries to push the issue here should be banned for stupidity. Period.

    • aesthete

      A quick response to your points:

      a) True dat.

      b) I would largely agree with remaining civil in an argument, but to paraphrase Thomas Sowell, respect isn’t a door prize to be handed out to all who want it, but rather, is something that must be earned. With that in mind, I do think that we should be civil in our responses to anyone, but part of the reason that the comments section is there is so that those who have a contrary or complementary opinion can air it. I see no reason for which we should have an exemption of politicos who post here from that maxim.

      c) Also very true. I’d add that as long-timers, we shouldn’t engage in hazing of newbies or fellow-travelers, and that we should engage them factually, if we disagree with them. I think that that lends a better view of us to them, and also reflects better on conservatism.

      d) Absolutely.

  • Old_Crow

    move from just commentary to an action and policy focus, which I applaud. The key for the upcoming years will be helping the conservative branch of the RNC articulate and fight.

    Ideas + actions = results
    I know you guys get this, but it’s just my 2 cents.

    Since I’m out of the country more and more these days (5+months/yr) playing “contractor” in various non-tourist destinations, I have not been able to participate as much as I would like in local politics. Heck I can’t even follow this site as much as I would like.

    This year will an interesting year for my team overseas.. Perhaps I can get permission to write about some of it.

    Wish you the best

  • The_Gadfly

    Even good people will lose their temper once in a while, and the reminders and timeouts from the moderators seem to handle that pretty well. Might need a couple more of them to balance the load better, but the policies are correct.

    As for how fast to blam trolls, that’s always a judgment call. Some of them can be converted, and those we want to keep around. The occasional few are fun to play with too. I wouldn’t delete all of their trolling, only the completely toxic ones. The British once put the heads of their dead enemies around the castle because nothing quite focuses one’s attention like being confronted with your own mortality. The dead threads serve much the same purpose.

    I wouldn’t even go so far as to try to exclude “feeling” conservatives in preference to “thinking” conservatives, even though I think that would benefit me as a thinking one. We will need to convert feelers and that means we’ll need some of them in our army.

    May post more later, right now it’s time to go back to work.

  • redneck_hippie

    Can’t say I’ve been much of a troll-smasher in my 2 yrs, 2 mos. as a member. The idiots usually don’t tempt me, but when they do I will imagine that I’m wearing a periwig. I’ll see if that works.

    Those who say we should assert our opinions passionately and backed up with facts have it exactly correct. Think of the differences that took place during the hatching of our nation. I’d like to think we can emulate productive discussion here as well. We are facing an existential threat to our way of life, at the very least. There are plenty of enemy working assiduously against us, our families, and all dearest to us. There are many ways to defeat them and squabbling amongst ourselves is not one of them.

    Want to also thank you, Haystack, for using boy howdy. Darn tootin’ we have the best site out there, and the mods do it justice.

    • haystack

      I’m surprised you didn’t comment on squirrel baseball :-)

      I like your analogy about the founders’ debates. I am fairly certain there were reasoned (even if heated) exchanges of ideas along the way to get to that final draft. I’m also willing to bet they showed a lot of class throughout the process.

      • redneck_hippie
        • The_Fastest_Squirrel

          I keed. I keed. As a member for 4 years, 4 months, I’ve been a lurker for most of the time. I haven’t contributed much, but did get out to meet some RedStaters for drinks on the Hill some time ago. I’ve followed ColdWarriors call to get involved and am happy to see this site grow.

          • itrytobenice

            I haven’t seen you for a while. I’m glad you’re here and doing well!

      • Raven

        I may be wrong, but iirc, there was a slight upsurge in duels during that particular period.

        Those who didn’t consider themselves good shots, however, I am sure were Quite polite.

  • Paul Seale

    Try not to feed the squirrels and focus on policy – where it hits them in-between the eyes.

    Then again, I admit I <3 policy grind more than the average bear.

    Still, it is that substance which identifies us and defies who we are, is it not?

    Good to hear from you man.

  • Swamp_Yankee

    Or maybe even 2010.

    Two suggestions:

    1) Perhaps tech solutions:

    I dont think people are gong to change their minds or attitudes. The tech people are the ones in the best position to deal with this, like the 24 hour waiting period. Perhaps certain privileges should be granted over time. I’m not a programmer and dont what is feasible, But I wonder if there could incremental privilges granted over time. For example, a certain number of posts per day limit for newbies, maybe only recommendation privileges after a three months, maybe only the ability to comment on frontpage material six months or something of that nature.

    2008 was hot around here. And if redstate wishes to grow and become more influential, this site will not only become a dumping ground for liberal mobies and fringe trolls, but also campaign operatives ofall kinds.

    The only was to muff that influence will probably adopting a full disclosure policy for paid operatives of any kind and waiting period for privieges.

    Otherwise this site will be a fireball of invective and manipulation come the Iowa caucuses.

    • SteveLA

      S_Y

      I’ve lost the plot on payed operatives posting here on RS, what are the current requirements?

      I’m OK with their postings, but would be in favor of a full disclosure signature block or something along the lines of “Paid staff for canidate XYZ, campaign site link”.

  • pro_libertate

    I know the post is directed at “old-timers”, and I do not qualify for that moniker yet…in fact, I have a long way to go. However, I wanted to echo haystack’s sentiments. I suspect he is right in that as 2010 goes along, RS will be a lightning rod of progressive/leftist attacks on conservatism and Republicans. Haystack provided very good reminders for all of us.

    One of the reasons that I have enjoyed RedState, and read it almost daily (sometime the Morning Briefing has to suffice) is that there is a great deal of reasoned discussion and analysis, more so than on just about any other site I have found and I appreciate that. I agree that we do damage to our position when we engage in personal attacks or allow trolls and other lurkers to get us off-message.

    I, for one, am thankful for a place like RedState, and thankful for all you “old-timers” that have made it what it is.

  • Judy T

    Your post prompted me to look at my anniversary date — and I have been a RedState member for 5 years 4 months… I also recall being banished more than once during the 2008 primaries. I’m a FredHead so don’t blame it on supporting he would will not be named. Rather I was banished by a quick tempered (feeling) supporter of another losing candidate. We did have a considerable amount of infighting in ’08 between the strong conservatives and the “mushy” middle.

    I haven’t posted here in quite some time. I lurk but haven’t had time to post nor anything original to add. I agree with your post and as some of us strong conservatives return to assist in the battle against trolls and mobies (sp?) I would hope that some of us really “old-timers” who have been less prolific here could be given just a little respect as well.

  • DefendUSA

    I started out reading blogs back in 2005-ish. I followed a link to the Belmont Club, found Blackfive, LGF, Townhall, Red State and started blogging for real in 2007.
    I don’t know when I actually signed on to comment but it’s all good. We have a voice and we are being heard.
    I read, I listen and I am acting to keep this Country great. Red State is instrumental in my absorbing and repeating what is important so it is a part of my daily clicks.
    Why? Because when you think you know it all, you must step back and learn some more.

  • A_Texan

    Been here since 2005. I was much more active 2006-2008, was involved in some big-’ol threads, on the primaries, gay marriage, and others. I only post occasionally now, but will ramp it up in 2010.

    Two big requests:

    1. So many of the posts degenerate with comments that can ALL be abbreviated into the following: “You and anyone else who disagrees with me is evil, stupid, or both.” Other than bad-faith trolls, or persons who open their comments with such a posture, nobody deserves such treatment and it’s a major waste of time.

    2. Regarding the primaries, it would be very helpful to be able to organize posts according to state. We’re gonna have some interesting races here in Texas, for instance, and it would be helpful to click a page containing all recent diaries, other postings, on such races.

  • BooBooKitty

    but here they are:

    Our ideological foes and the trolls they send rely on speaking loud, long, and rude enough to overwhelm the opposition and have been given that opportunity for far too long by a passive public and a like minded media.

    I say cut off discourse with trolls and leftists and that first smell of liberalism and sterilize anything they have touched prior. They have enough bandwidth to sell their spiel and we need not taint or waste our space. The less say they have here, the more they will have to rely on supporting their own untenable positions instead of attacking ours.

    Good riddance.

  • tracycoyle

    49 months ago, I joined here. A couple times a year, I get engaged in a topic. It is not daily, or even weekly. I have found the general population on RedState to be ready, willing and able to engage in honest dialogue – and when abject stupidity rears it’s head – it is treated in the appropriate way – humiliation. I don’t think anything should change.

    Debate is good – exchanging insults is a waste of time – bang the trolls hard and repeatedly. There is no need for political correctness on this (or any politically oriented site).

  • a_sober_voice_of_reason

    his column is why i started coming here in the first place, back in the ’04 elections. i never understood how he did it (one man, what was it, five shows? six?) and kept his grace and sanity.
    we were not worthy.

  • yosefattherock3

    We never stop the fight. 2010 is a do or die for America. We elect conservatives if a Dem win’s we weed out the RINO’S.

  • seesalrun

    and say, I think we’re not about a collective vision but of a collective one that can agree.
    And we’re not having anything of this and we are collectively out of our minds with the ullsh*t that keeps coming everyday.

    For the New Year, I say – take Cold Warriors advice, and start from the ground up. I, for the first time will contribute, I will, contribute and TRY to share my views and will MORE times attend, I WILL MAKE MY VOICE HEARD. Not only by VOTE (which may or maybe not be counted) but by expression.

    I love my Country. I love being an American. I apologize to no one.

  • http://corruptedlamb.townhall.com thecorruptedlamb

    I will not agree with any one of you on every issue. That is the point. However, I have posted on the web for over 8 years with the same moniker, I will not change, and I will NOT back down!

    For too many years we have sat and listened to those who said that we were non-inclusive, bigoted and racist. I am not any of those, as I am a mixed race Son of the American Revolution. I will not back down, however, when enlightened people tell me that someone that broke our laws get to go ahead of the line from my friends wife who has lived married to an American here for 10 years!

    I will not back down to those that say that I have been ?lucky? or mean, or that I have cheated to provide a good life for my family. I have not been lucky, I have been tenacious! I have been graced, I have been an overachiever! I have not been given, I have earned!

    I will not back down to those that say that I have to ?give back?. I give! I give from what I have earned? I have nothing to give back, because I have not TAKEN anything from anyone that I have not earned.

    I will not back down to those who say that I have to cede my property to the good of the environment. My property is MINE, and I acquired it in accordance with the law. It will only be taken from me at great expense to those who try to take it by force. (Possibly including life and limb!) And, I will defend my neighbors property as if it was my own!

    I will not back down to those who say that my health decisions are not my own. I will DEFEND my life and the life of my family with my blood if necessary. These decisions I will not leave to the mechanizations of some nameless board, but to the prayers and hopes of my family and doctors.

    This being said, I will use decorum and respect in my postings. I will be a man and admit when I am wrong!

    But, I will not BACK DOWN!

    • Flagstaff

      It makes way too much sense to be this long in being said.

  • streetwise

    A golden opportunity awaits us in 2010 and 2012! Stay focused. keep a sense of humor, and remember we’re doing it all to serve our wonderful country and make it a freer and better place!

    A lot of us have moved into new venues for the defense of liberty. But RS is like the Mother Ship. We’re glad she’s around!

  • spainishirish

    But the problem lies in trolls rather than the regulars here. Tech guys like Neil can impose a 24-hour waiting period, as suggested upthread, and maybe deactivate old accounts with little or no action, before those zombies start to bait. Yet some will slip through the cracks, and bringing those cats to the attention of the mods seems to work…not that a little reasoned bashing is out of order from time to time.

    Incidentally, congrats to Erick and all of you who have made this site prominent all of a sudden. I just hope it doesn’t get too serious to be fun. I expect it won’t.

  • jdub19

    Years back, I think I was watching CSPAN, and saw Mike K. talking about some subject…. basically, it was I time for me that I wanted to learn more, and get better on the issues…Mike seemed to know his stuff, and presented himself as well reasoned and informed.. I went to RS.org., and signed up.

    To this day, I’m glad I did.

    Over the years, RS has provided me a great forum to learn, educate myself, and get better up to speed on many issues. Many of the front pagers have given me great insight into specific areas that I wanted to improve in…Francis, Streiff, Leon, among others have really shown to be more than helpful in understanding many of the issues that have surfaced over the last 4+ years…that to me has been very, very helpful in my personal growth. In this time, I have also seen fellow members rise up, through great writing and reasoned analysis, to also gain spotlight and help in understanding issues of the day….this too has been wonderful.

    I guess my point is that RS has always been a great tool for me to get better in an area I really take to heart. I admit that there were many times I’d get up early to see which troll I could blast, insult, and call out…. I got tired of it. I’ve stayed away because it seemed me that there was quite a bit of flaming each other, …. sometimes I wondered if that poster was a troll, or maybe just not up to speed as the rest…in any case, it just got to be a little too much.

    I tell everyone I know interested in politics and issues of the day about RS…I tell them that the writings, debate, and insight here is fabulous for new perspective and great insight into areas that need clarity… I tuned in this a.m. to find this post by Hay….great to see, and glad I tuned in.

    I wish RS and all here the best for the New Year… continue the good fight.

    • Aaron Gardner

      I wondered where you have been. Good to see a comment from you again.

  • solvoreor

    I have been around a lot longer then my current iteration of a profile would suggest. I remember RedState 1.0. It was a place for regular people who identified with Republicans and Republican ideals could converse about the things that mattered to them. There was a lot of tolerance for differences of opinion but not for liberal spammers. It was well run, and of course Thomas had a tough job, which he performed with enthusiasm. But that enthusiasm was necessary because posts debuted on the front page. Those spills in Aisle 5 were right out front where the world could see them.

    RedState 1.0 was a place for regular people to air their opinions, concerns and desires. A place where a politician, or journalist could go to hear what regular voters thought. Not professionals, not journalists, and not Blog entrepreneurs. The debates were lively though confined by necessity to improving Republican performance. It was after all red not purple state. Not unlike a blog version of last years tea-party and townhall meetings.

    And since you asked, if I could make any suggestion I would make the same suggestion to you that I would make to most republicans. Stop TALKING and listen. LISTENING was what RedState 1.0 was about. Listening to regular people, Republicans, and independents who were likely Republican voters express their views of what the party should be doing. Express their opinions about what made them mad, or brought them pride. Regular people, the kind that sway elections, talking about what would persuade them to vote or stay home. That changed with RedState 2.0 . I respect what you are doing and hope you are successful. But you don’t really hear from people like me anymore. You have an agenda, the support of major politicians, and have built a forum where the likes of Jim DeMint (one of my favorites) can publish their perspectives on today’s issues. But like the rest of the party you have created an echo chamber.

    RedState made a choice to change from a place where you could gauge what mattered to regular people who were likely Republican voters, and became instead a place friendly to Republican spin. That isn’t all bad, but it doesn’t answer one question. If nearly two-thirds of people polled recently think the Democrats are doing a bad job, why do almost three quarters of the people in those same polls think the Republicans would be worse?

    WmCraig
    “To speak freely”

  • Politics1001

    since this is an election year, that means it’s blam season. i’m looking forward to the fireworks.

  • Flagstaff

    I fail this test myself too often, but any and all humor attempts need to be actually funny and not just juvenile, and insults are not funny. I need to curtail my use of Obamanation, Oba-maladministration, and even The Won. OK last year, but trite now.

    Respectful beats ridicule, as bs points out, but irreverence can be used to good advantage.

    Name-calling or questioning the IQ of posters doesn’t happen often here, but it should never happen. Devastate the enemy with superior knowledge and logic, not nastiness. If we appear to be engaged with a troll, Hinz Rule! “Ignorance” is Bliss! Profanity is already banned by website rules, and obscenity probably falls under the same rule. Even if we don’t get caught, we shouldn’t do it.

    This is not to say that we should pull punches. If a public figure says or does something bad, inconsistent, or even stupid, say so, but the more we can say “he’s wrong, because…,” the better.

    Don’t be petty. There are plenty of major issues that the opposition gets wrong. Hammer them on those issues. Save the small stuff for a “compilation of errors” article, or as added proof that they know not what they do. Facts deflate pomposity, too, every time.

    False modesty is not helpful, either. When our guys are right, make sure it is well-documented and spread around the globe. OTOH, there is no point in bestowing any praise upon liberals for anything they happen to get right. Even a blind pig, and all that. They can take care of their own publicity and they do it well.

    If one of our own strays, point it out in an instructive way, not vindictively. If Kay Bailey Hutchison is less conservative than we like to see in a Republican Senator, tell us why there should be a better way for her to go. If a Mitt Romney professes to agree with conservative principles, don’t call him a liar or wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing. If we think he’s insincere, say that and say what makes us think so. But always attack the positions, not the person, unless there is an issue with morality or integrity.

    And “RINO” is reserved for those who consistently reach across the aisle when it isn’t necessary to do so, and who do so on many different issues.

    We should simply take the high road. That way we are much more likely to be convincing and thereby to be taken seriously by strangers.

    And that’s my 4 year 8 month opinion. Now to try to abide by it.