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What?! Allen West TOO SOFT on Islam?!

Two days ago, on my own blog, I posted a defense of Allen West against some “friendly fire” from the wonderful conservative columnist Diana West (no relation), who in turn was disappointed with Allen West’s response to some criticism he’d gotten from a group of liberal religious leaders — you know, the type who probably sport “Coexist” bumper stickers on their cars.

As you may know, Allen West caught some flak for making critical comments about his fellow Congressman Keith Ellison (D-MN) in an interview a couple weeks ago. The “Coexist”ers rebuked Congressman West for being so critical of Islam and so uncivil toward a colleague. West responded to them with a letter containing some very harsh words about CAIR, an organization that Ellison has been very buddy-buddy with. CAIR is, as Ben Howe points out in his front-page post today, a front group for Hamas. West criticized Ellison’s involvement with CAIR, which he called one of those “organizations that masquerade as peaceful moderates” while having

long histories of supporting violent anti-American and anti-Israel terrorist organizations such as Hamas, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood. These organizations operate within our borders, and as an elected official, I have the obligation to speak the truth and educate my constituency on the threat they pose. I spent 22 years protecting the United States in uniform and I will continue to do that in the House of Representatives.

The “Coexist” bunch was not mollified, to no one’s surprise.

However, the letter also disquieted some in the anti-Islamist community — for very different reasons. That’s because, in the same letter, West also said the following. (But notice the phrases I’ve boldfaced, which might vindicate West somewhat in the eyes of those who fear that he’s softened his stance):

I am neither anti-Muslim nor anti-Islam. I respect every religion, and the right to practice that faith in a peaceful manner.

In a town hall meeting… Nezar Hamze, Executive Director of the South Florida chapter of [CAIR], asked me a question about my stance on Islam.

I told Mr. Hamze… that “I will always defend your right to practice a free religion under the First Amendment.” I want you to know that I will always support religious freedom practiced in a way that is peaceful for all Americans. Throughout my more than 22 year career in the U.S. Army and working for the government, including 43 months serving in the Middle East, I befriended many who practice the Islamic faith, and have known these people to be peaceful, patriotic Americans.

Let me be clear. It is the extremist, radical element that has hijacked Islam that presents a dangerous threat to both our country and our allies throughout the world. This radical jihadist movement has no place in the United States of America or anywhere on earth. I’ve seen firsthand the vicious hatred that stems from their radical interpretation of the Koran, and I condemn it fully.

[boldface mine]

After the comments about CAIR mentioned earlier, and some sober words about the grave dangers we face as shown by the 1998 embassy bombings, the U.S.S. Cole bombing and the 9/11 attacks, West ended the letter with this:

I certainly will take your concerns to heart, and hope that we can work together to continue to educate the American public on the importance of both understanding the threats we face, and exercising religious tolerance. It appears to me that you have the very same goals as I do — to keep our freedom intact and ensure that the foundations on which this country was founded are never jeopardized.

[boldface mine]

I emphasized certain phrases in the paragraphs above because those should be kept in mind as we consider the critiques of Congressman West’s letter by those on the other end of the spectrum from the “Coexist” bumper sticker crowd. Diana West wrote a whole article at Big Peace about it, concluding with this:

The extremist, radical element — jihad — has not “hijacked” innocent passenger Islam; such radicalism steers the plane — or, more to the point, charts the flight path. Would that the Congressman’s reply have noted instead that his comments were directed at the Islamic faith in jihad, in the Islamic intolerance, indeed, negation of other faiths, and that the respective holy men ought to consider engaging in some serious study of sharia, jihad and dhimmitude and joining this most vital debate — not suppressing it.

Even more hard-hitting is a critique by Ben, an anti-Islam activist who runs the blog Islam Exposed and is apparently a longtime Allen West fan. Yesterday, Ben posted a piece called “Why I Must Reject Rep. Allen West.” Ben is not just disappointed, as Diana West was; Ben feels betrayed. Since I am quite impressed with Ben’s knowledge of Islam, and his commitment to defeating it, I think he deserves to be heard. Here are his rebuttals of each of several phrases and sentences in West’s letter.

“I am neither anti-Muslim nor anti-lslam”

If any seeker or holder of high office is not against Islam, then I am against him. Once you know what it is, you must be opposed to it if you have any morality.

“l respect every religion”

Islam is not a religion, it is a way of life: intra-species predation. Respect is given where respect is due, Islam is not owed any.

“practice that faith in a peaceful manner”

Islam’s faith component serves as a troop motivator and camouflage. It promises Muslims eternity in a celestial bordello if they wage jihad and threatens them with eternal torment in the fire if they refuse. If it is a religion, it must be peaceful and beneficent.

War is a required part of Islam, ordained by 2:216. It is not like “cafeteria Catholicism” it is all or nothing: …”Then do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest? “…2:85. Islamic law requires a minimum of one military expedition against disbelivers in every year, if it is not performed when possible, all who know of the obligation are in sin.

“right to practice a free religion”

Islam is slavery, not freedom. Believers are Allah’s slaves, purchased to fight his wars; 9:111. Is there a right to engage in world conquest? In 8:39, Allah orders Muslims to fight until only Allah is worshiped, “alltogether and everywhere”. 3:110 tells Muslims that they are “the best of peoples”. Bukhari’s collection of authentic hadith informs us that the expression means: “the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.”

Islamic law informs us that when women and children are captured by Muslims, “they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled”.

Is there a right to rape? The hadith also inform us that Moe gave tacit approval to the practice of raping captives and the Noble Qur’an has seven references to “right hands possess“.

“religious freedom”

Religious freedom is for legitimate religions, not crime syndicates. Islam’s mission is mercenary and its method is martial. Islam does not reciprocate, it demands a monopoly.

“befriended”

The Qur’an contains eight verses which prohibit friendship with disbelievers. Tafsir Ibn Kathir sheds some light on this issue in “The Prohibition of Supporting the Disbelievers“; “We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.”

“radical element that has hijacked Islam”

Islam has not been hijacked, it is evil by design. Terrorism is not a modern innovation, it is a foundational sacrament in the core of Islam. I refer doubters and dissenters to a previous post: “What’s Wrong With Islam/Muslims?” for the disgusting details.

“their radical interpretation of the Koran”

The interpretation belongs to Islam’s founder; what he said and did while not engaged in revelation shows us how he interpreted what he revealed. In the last decade of his life, [Muhammad] started a war on the average of every six weeks. A glance at the table of contents of The Life of Muhammad will tell you what you need to know about Islam.

These are good points, in my opinion. I would only point out that if one reads West’s letter in its entirety, as a unified whole rather than in the bits and pieces presented here, the overall impression is one of firm resolve.

I’d like to close with a perspective from David Gaubatz, an incredibly brave man who went undercover with CAIR, and afterward, co-authored an exposé of what he’d found, titled Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That’s Conspiring to Islamize America. Gaubatz was also the first U.S. civilian Federal Agent deployed to Iraq in 2003. It’s probably safe to say that Gaubatz loathes radical Islam as much as anyone out there. But ponder his words in a FrontPageMag interview that he gave when his book came out in 2009:

I owe my life to Muslims from Iraq who risked their lives for me and many Americans in 2003. The family of Mohammed Rehaief (Iraqi lawyer who rescued Private Jessica Lynch in Nasiriyah, Iraq) are examples of Muslims who truly represent the Islamic people. They saved my life on several occasions and I had the opportunity to rescue their family from Al Qaeda who had threatened their lives.

Further I have always advised all children are innocent and I (like many American troops) would have given my life for them in Iraq. During many of my lectures I have informed people they should not fear the Islamic people, but have every right to be an “Islamic Scholar Phobe”….

So, here’s the question.

Has Allen West buckled under, like so many other politicians — has Washington already “gotten to him”?

Or is he “picking his battles” as Sun Tzu, the intellectual mentor he frequently cites, might advise?

To put it another way: As the phrases I boldfaced in his statements might suggest, is he choosing his words carefully for tactical reasons, while remaining just as fully committed to the battle?

Or is it unrealistic to expect any politician to really be that clever?

COMMENTS

  • bobmontgomery

    …it is ostensibly about one potential candidate, although you have explained previously both your passion and your reservations. But I know it won’t hurt your feelings, ’cause you’ve been there before. That said, I think this diary ought to receive a lot of comments because it brings up not only the question of what kind of leader do we need and what should we expect of him/her, but also the related topic of geopolitical positioning, diplomacy, strategy, frame of reference, national self-interest – the works.
    Two quick points – I have read a lot of commentary about Islam, Islamists, jihad, shariah, et cetera by both people with oxen being gored and supposed objective observer, and I honestly don’t have a definitive position on the merits of Islam….as a personal God-worship or spiritual practice. But, I think we can take text, whether ‘holy’ or not, and make what we will of it. i.e., it’s not what the Quaran says, it’s what it’s followers *do*.
    Secondly, the fervent anti-jihadist has a point that Islam is a ‘way of life’, but in case he hadn’t noticed, so is Judaism and Christianity. Bottom line: I am perfectly content for their not to be any Christian Churches in Saudi Arabia, and I am perfectly content to allow mosques in the US. But there are limits.

    • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

      I honestly believe they should not be allowed to have mosques here if they will not grant the simple reciprocity of allowing churches and synagogues there.

      ESPECIALLY since most of the “mosques” in the U.S. double as hate indoctrination centers, since they are funded by the Saudis, staffed by imams approved by the Saudis, and are filled with “educational materials” provided by the Saudis. “Saudi” of course equals WAHHABI.

      This is all documented extensively; it’s just that nobody in Washington cares to do anything about it.

      Here are some sources:

      Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Invade American Mosques, a report from Freedom House/Center for Religious Freedom, which is chaired by R. James Woolsey, and directed by Nina Shea.

      American Jihad: The Terrorists Living Among Us. Emerson infiltrated numerous American mosques when researching this book.

      The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America, by the great Andrew McCarthy

      Shariah: The Threat to America,, which should be required reading for every American. Woolsey, McCarthy and Frank Gaffney are among the numerous heavyweights who collaborated on this report from the well-respected Center for Security Policy. You can read it online at the link, for free, or go to Amazon and order the paperback-book version.

      • aesthete

        You realize that “Muslims” are not an amorphous, homogenous blob that believes the same thing, right? That most Muslims in America abhor the laws of the countries that they moved away from? That many American Muslims don’t have ties to the ME, but are African-Americans who chose the religion of their own volition?

        I, for one, refuse to allow another country to hold the liberties of my fellow citizens hostage simply because both peripherally share the same religion.

      • bobmontgomery

        But like I said, the Saudis are going to do what they do. But I said there have to be limits. And the limits have to be *just exactly the references you cited above*. When you’ve got people plotting terrorism and the overthrow of our legal system, which would necessarily mean the Constitution, and all the rest of it, pull everybody out of it, seize their assets and shut them down and start prosecutions and if it means deportations, so be it.If there are five thousand mosques in this country and 4,950 have to be shut down to keep one American city from being blown up, or all have to be shut down, fine. I defer very much to Emerson, Gaffney, McCarthy. These people know what they are talking about. But as far as banning a religion, I don’t think in a country where we allow Satanism we can ban Islam. But I could be wrong :-)

      • cordpt

        You believe we should get rid of freedom of religion just because it doesn’t exist in other parts of the world?

        Geez, thankfully you weren’t around during the cold war…

        • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

          I spoke rashly in saying Muslims shouldn’t be able to have mosques here till we can have churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia. I don’t think two wrongs make a right, and we shouldn’t stoop to their level. You caught me using hyperbole, and that was irresponsible of me.

          That said, I agree with bobmontgomery’s statement of FACT that American mosques ARE being used to spread sedition, and that that is where your First Amendment freedoms end. You are not allowed to urge the violent overthrow of this country, and that is precisely what many imams and many publications currently being distributed in U.S. mosques are doing. They need to be investigated on a case-by-case basis. People who are engaging in sedition need to be indicted and tried and convicted.

          The four publications I linked above are well worth your time, I guarantee. And the first two, the Saudi hate publications report and Steven Emerson’s book, have a LOT about what’s going on in American mosques.

          • aesthete

            There was a poster not too long ago who proposed that we do to Muslims in America what we did to the Japanese during the Cold War, and I find that to be a bridge too far. I’m glad that you were willing to take back a rash statement — God knows I’ve had to do it on this forum plenty of times, and reconsideration of a statement made in the heat of the moment is what separates us from them.

          • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

            Heartlander thank you for your work. I don’t think anything you said needs qualification. I feel people who choose Islam knowing what Islamic law allows need to explain why they do so. And not just by saying, well, that’s not what I believe. That’s what is controlling that religion. I recall after 9-11 a lot of Muslims were interviewed by media outlets, mostly in family settings, and none were outraged at what had happened. (I live in Manhattan). They were pretty quiet, actually, and were mostly concerned about themselves, that they would not experience backlash. On the contrary, Americans have been made to feel they are the bad guys. It wouldn’t be such a big deal except that our government, beginning with George Bush and now Obama, has advocated open borders, other politicians have had sanctuary cities. We have not been allowed to have proper protection on air travel (I have read about law suits that are filed every time we try to have a no-fly list.) Many politicians such as Mayor Bloomberg, are happy to sacrifice our culture for one vastly different and eagerly divert taxpayer money to help it along. Republicans in the media when given a microphone are likely to tell conservatives to shut up about whether a mosque in their neighborhood is teaching hate, or if the early morning darkness in Brooklyn is pierced by Muslim call to prayer on loudspeakers. Political correctness in the military has neutered it to the point where you can be murdered by an Army Islamic psychiatrist that was known to be dangerous but the Army was too afraid to speak up. Instead, they kept promoting him. The Army should be charged as an accessory to murder at minimum in the Ft. Hood case. If we had a government who cared about saving this country we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Most politicians are happy to sell us out. Regarding your thoughtful responses, I noticed one name pestering you (it does not begin with an ‘a’). My experience with that person is that he is a pest. Just my experience.

  • Martin Knight

    Every single one of your posts seethes with pure unadulterated hatred for Muslims … I kinda get the impression that if you see a woman in a hijab and you’re behind the wheel your brakes are suddenly going to “fail.”

    PS: Ben at “IslamExposed” really has no idea what he’s talking about – practically every single thing you quote from him is made up. And no, for your information, it is not acceptable for Muslims to eat Christian children.

    • lineholder

      and for the most part they are polite on the surface, but once they find out that I am a Christian…we usually don’t have much conversation beyond that point.

      • Martin Knight
        • lineholder

          “I’m Muslim” and I said “I’m a Christian” and after that….crickets could have made more noise than any conversation between us.

          It isn’t that efforts weren’t made on both sides, Martin. It’s just once that once the religious differentiation was defined, the conversation really didn’t go much further than that.

          • lineholder

            no, once the religious differentiation was made, of course they didn’t think I was a Muslim

            The original comment you posted conveyed the thought that it is entirely due to prejudice in the minds of people who are not Muslims that they respond to the situation in the way that they do. That isn’t always the case and I know that it doesn’t always hold true because of my own experiences.

            That’s all I was trying to say, though I didn’t say it very well at all.

    • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

      Since I am a woman myself, I go nuts when I see women being treated as slaves/property. And I don’t buy for a minute buy the line that shrouding a woman actually “frees” her by protecting her dignity !

      I understand the Muslims’ condemnation of Western women’s tendency to go to the opposite extreme, i.e., dressing like whores, and then being surprised that men look lasciviously at them. But the solution is not to SHROUD them from head to foot!!

      As in most things, there is a middle ground that is sane and healthy.

      And, yes, of course I have met Muslims. The ones that I’ve known personally seemed nice enough. So what? I let David Gaubatz make the same point in my article — individual Muslims can be wonderful people. That doesn’t change Islam’s global ambitions one bit. And to be honest, the Muslim women I’ve known were pretty messed-up gals, psychologically. No surprise there: Any woman with the slightest streak of life and independence in her is gonna be seriously messed up by the woman-hating ideology/culture of Islam.

      Speaking of women under Islam, have YOU read Syrian-born psychiatrist Dr. Wafa Sultan’s book A God Who Hates?

      Also, psychologist Dr. Phyllis Chesler (who was married for some years to a Muslim man and lived in a Muslim country) wrote a very worthwhile book called The Death of Feminism, in which she explores quite deeply not only the psychology of women under Islam, but also of men and boys.

      Both of these women know from personal experience as well as clinical studies how deeply Islam mutilates both male and female psyches. Both books are highly compelling, and Dr. Sultan in particular writes magnificently. (Pretty amazing when you consider that English is not even her first language!) I recommend them very highly.

      • aesthete

        Especially in the US, where a generally open society and a strong court system (don’t laugh; it’s usually pretty good) allow an abused woman recourse, and where she can get restraining orders and the like. Or are you going for more of a mental lack of freedom? If that’s the case, congratulations: you’ve just used the leftist argument against all religion as a force for bullying, not to mention the related leftist arguments against advertising and free speech.

        If you believe that every woman donning the veil (since you make no distinction between Arab Christians wearing the veil and Muslim women) in the US is being forced, you are also accusing every brother or husband of said woman of abuse that should be actionable under US law. That is simply ridiculous, for the same reason that arresting Amish folk for their customary dress would be (or, again, for the same reason that arresting Arab Christian women for wearing a veil would be).

        (I must also wonder what you think of single Muslim women at college — far from paternal or romantic influences — who don the veil. Who is forcing them to wear it?)

        • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

          I’m not sure you’re talking about the same garb.

          There is a huge difference between a burka and a head scarf, but both are hijab. (Martin I’m sure will correct me if I’m wrong)

          Also, in this day of extensive video and internet, I’m not sure one can talk about “far from paternal or romantic influences” any more.

          One of the challenges facing multiple Western nations is dealing with tribal values vs. individual autonomy, along with defining to what lengths society should go to ensure equal protection under the law.

          Not an easy path to navigate.

          • aesthete

            (and France’s often-cited law doesn’t make a distinction), there is precisely no way in which voluntarily wearing a burka is tantamount to being “enslaved”, unless you start from the premise that religion is inherently oppressive, or the idea of false consciousness. An anti-burka law would have the effect of forcing women who would rather wear them out of deference to their faith to not do so, period. Women who are already being abused/forced to wear the burka will not suddenly see themselves liberated; instead, the men abusing them will simply not allow them to appear in public, or find other ways to continue this abuse. Again, voluntarily wearing a burka is not equivalent to enslavement — to claim that it is tortures the concept of true liberty.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            Slavery is a good model.

            We do not allow someone to be a slave even if they claim that they are in this relationship voluntarily. And it doesn’t matter whether or not if they quote religion as the basis for the submission to slavery. That is, we prohibit slavery as a basic violation if civil and constitutional rights in itself.

            I believe that a similar argument can be advanced against the wearing of burkas as an intrinsic violation of civil and constitutional rights, including representing an assault against free and open interchange among the citizenry that is at the heart of our republic. Volition is not the relevant test.

            Or to phrase it differently, restrictions or banning of burkas do not necessarily represent imposing government exceeding its delegated power to coerce individual behavior but rather could reflect rather our society defending itself against an assault against our civil institutions.

            You may disagree with whether burka wearing constitutes such an assault, and that would involve close examination of the facts. (I am not the one to debate that with; others are in a better position to make the case.) But that would be a different issue from your objection stated here.

            My point here is that there are grounds for banning other than that “religion is inherently oppressive, or the idea of false consciousness” .

            The rest of your paragraph contains the same kind of pragmatic argumentation that could (and have, in history) been advanced to justify slavery or a whole host of other social evils.

            I’m not sure how I got sucked into this debate in the first place…

          • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

            …because you always have something valuable to contribute to any comment thread!

            Most appreciated is your careful, thorough reasoning and your always civil tone.

          • aesthete

            and I think that the question is whether, as you say, wearing a burka is the equivalent of slavery, or similar enough to categorize it under that rubric. After all, the measured argument that you make above has also been advanced to say that free trade, or certain types of work, philosophy, and religion should be banned. Here’s why I believe that wearing a burka is not equivalent to slavery:

            1) It fits with other religious and cultural traditions regarding attire that are followed by Christians and Jews in this country, and which have been historically protected by the First.

            2) Unlike slavery, which is a long-term (potentially life-long) contract between two people, wearing a burka is an instantly reversible choice: women in the US who have converted from Islam to Christianity, and who have stopped wearing the burka, were able to do so instantly. Slaves and indentured servants were not so disposed.

            3) The burka and its availability isn’t really a good proxy for Islamic oppression against women. I’ve already noted some of the reasons above, but in terms of hard stats, the countries that have criminalized the wearing of burkas in public have not experienced a drop in violence against women, or ease in reaching their Muslim minorities on these issues, as a result.

    • bobmontgomery

      Heartlander’s posts. The ones I have read I do not recall “seething with pure unadulterated hatred for Muslims”. But your quip about Muslims not eating Christian children was really helpful to all who read it Martin. That really over-the-top insult to Heartlander was not necessary, but it pales in comparison to your “impression” that she would like to runover and kill or maim a woman in a hijab. Now unless you are prepared to discuss women in hijabs being stoned to death, which I can assure you with every confidence that Heartlander would very much not like to see happen and would prevent if she could, I suggest you leave your “impressions” of Heartlander’s murderous inclination in the dark recesses of your mind.

      • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

        …is for the liberation of Muslims from that hideous demonic cult that enslaves both their bodies and their souls. Go to the following website sometime and hear the testimonies of freed Muslims — it will convince you as nothing else can of how horribly Muslims are tormented when under the thumb of that cruel and inhuman ideology:

        http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/

        Actually, I did a post on this ministry yesterday:
        http://westforwestwing2012.com/2011/02/06/mahmoud-a-captive-set-free-2/

        • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

          …. there are more Muslims converting to Jesus Christ in recent years than has ever been seen in history. (It’s as if lines are being drawn and things are intensifying, isn’t it? On the one hand, radical Islam is getting more violent than ever — but on the other, more Muslims than ever are being saved from its clutches.)

          Normally I don’t link to any book that I have not personally read myself, BUT allow me to give two links here, because I have heard these two men interviewed on the radio, so I feel that I can vouch for them. Both of them are former Palestinian terrorists (Shoebat with PLO; Yousef with Hamas) who, by the grace of God, are now Christians — and so bold to tell their stories publicly!

          Son of Hamas, by Mosab Hassan Yousef

          Why I Left Jihad, by Walid Shoebat

          • GregInFla

            I have personally heard Walid speak at our church twice. He is impressive, and his books are from the heart and very informative.

        • cordpt

          what constitutes demonic cults or not.

          Just leave the government – the state, the law, politicians and politics – out of it. That’s a private cause of yours that, in a free society, you have all the right to pursue. Likewise, Muslims are free to try to proselytizing their faith.

          But a political issue this is not.

          Just out of curiosity, what’s exactly a “free Muslim”? A former muslim, an apostate of the Islam? A special type of Muslim?

          • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

            As I’m sure you must know, Islam is meant to control every single aspect of life — private, public, personal, political, food, education, the arts, government, EVERYTHING.

            How is that NOT political? I start to think maybe you’re just jerking our chain here.

          • cordpt

            I’ve read plenty of Muslims defending that Muslims can live their faith within a liberal political community (liberal in the classic, Firstly, there are different doctrines constitutional, sense; in a free society). Actually, that’s what happens with Muslims in America and in most of the Western world.

            If they want their faith to control every single aspect of their life – private, public, food, education, arts, whatever – I have no problem at all with that. It’s their life. You worry about that, I don’t.

            It’s when they want their faith to control a single aspect of my life that a problem or two may arise. But that’s a hypothetical at this point in time. If there are people who are promoting the view that the law of the land should be replaced by the sharia, then you have my full support to fight them back.

          • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

            I mean, THAT is the whole problem. Mosques in America are NOT about some private version of worship such as Christians and Jews are Hindus and Buddhists and Zoroastrians are accustomed to.The mosques in America are political indoctrination centers.

            Please. Read the Team B II report, Shariah: The Threat to America, This links you directly to the pdf which you can read, online, for absolutely free — or print it out, or send it to your Kindle, if you have one, whatever. Just read it — it is so, SO important.

            I suspect the reason we keep talking past each other on this thread is that we’re operating from very different premises. From all that I have read, it is true whether we like it or not, whether we’re willing to face up to it or not, that the main purpose of nearly every mosque in America is the “cultural jihad” that Andrew McCarthy writes about in his book The Grand Jihad. This has all been documented. I’m not just making all this stuff up!

            You say, “If there are people who are promoting the view that the law of the land should be replaced by the sharia, then you have my full support to fight them back.”

            IF?? IF??

            Replacing our Constitution with shari’a is PRECISELY what Muslim leaders advocate!

            We really need, in this country, a LOT more non-Muslims who can speak Arabic. I’m starting to think we’re not gonna get this thing licked until we simply have more people who speak, or at least read, Arabic! But I worry if we have enough time. Things are moving so rapidly.

            It would not be the first time a language barrier played a major role in a country’s defeat….

  • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

    …as they have been for years in Europe. The higher the percentage of Muslims in the population, the more honor killings, female genital mutilations, arranged marriages and cases of polygamy.

    From a piece I wrote last November about the current situation in Europe:

    Europe has been asleep much longer than the United States, so they have gotten much farther down the path of Islamization. In Britain, separate sharia courts for Muslims are allowed to exist as a parallel legal system

    • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

      Here’s the piece I wrote about the anti-Islamic resistance movement that has finally begun in Europe, from which that blockquoted paragraph was taken:

      http://westforwestwing2012.com/2010/11/16/europe-rises-again/

      • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

        Try this:

        Europe has been asleep much longer than the United States, so they have gotten much farther down the path of Islamization. In Britain, separate sharia courts for Muslims are allowed to exist as a parallel legal system–which means, among other things, that Muslim girls and women victimized by domestic violence, female genital mutilation, polygamy, gang rapes, acid burnings and honour killings will now have less protection than ever before. In cities all over Europe, from Malm

        • aesthete

          and even though Pam Gellar isn’t my cup of tea, I do find Spencer to be a good and knowledgeable resource (though some of his history is a bit selective). You mention France: did their burka ban reduce violence against women, honor killings, or the other horrible things that you yourself note are on the rise? No. For the women who are being abused, murdered, or otherwise having their rights violated, the problem is not an article of clothing — it is the abusive husbands, brothers, and fathers themselves! If that’s the case, wouldn’t it be more helpful to find ways to reduce the power that these men have over “their” women, rather than finding things to ban that will solidify Muslim opposition to us, and which will actually make it more likely that women will be abused, and not allowed outside the home?

    • cordpt

      which is often, is a lot different from using hijab and whatever outfit one finds suitable to dress. I think the distinction between these two things is very easy to make – and yet, it’s a truly fundamental one.

      • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

        I have been a woman and a human-rights advocate for way too long to think we’re doing anyone any favors to “enable” their oppression to continue.

        Here’s an interesting post:
        http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2009/06/burqa-is-portable-concentration-camp.html

        I agree with this line from it: “The burqa is a portable concentration camp. It is the chains of modern slavery.” The writer goes on to say that people who force women to wear burqas are guilty of human trafficking. (I think the more technical legal term here in the U.S. is “false imprisonment.”)

        I can’t vouch for the video at that post, since I’m video-disabled today. It’s Pat Condell, so it’s probably offensive. He’s a loud, proud atheist, which is just silly, to my way of thinking. And very sad. At the very least, it’s throwing out the baby with the bathwater in a most self-destructive way. But I do admire his chutzpah when it comes to Islam!

        • cordpt

          should be brought to the law and face charges.

          I find the idea that every woman wearing a burka is being forced to do it truly bizarre and nonsensical.

  • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

    “No Sane, Free Person Would Choose to Wear a Burqa”

    By Licia Corbella, Calgary Herald

    A while back I was asked to give a talk at my kids

    • cordpt

      diatribes to care about that kind of stuff. Or how Christians oppress their wifes and brainwash their kids and all that jazz. Heck, that crazy former congressman from Florida, Grayson, he pulled that trick just a few months ago.

      That position about Islam is not different from the traditional feminist critique of traditional Catholicism, for example.

      I don’t care. Just leave the government out of it. I support their right to dress as they see fit. There may be situations/occasions where the use of burka – or any sort of dressing that fully covers the face – should be forbidden. If adults are being forced to wear clothing against their will, I’d hope that they’d find a way of denouncing the situation to the police/judiciary system. Or to some private watchdog groups that dedicate themselves to the noble function of pro-actively helping people who may be forced to dress in clothes they dislike.

      Why should I care so much about what other people’s dress? To be honest, and with the caveat that my sense of fashion is not up to the modern standards, I’d probably take a burka over much of what haute-couture stylists are selling and pre-teen girls are wearing these days. Maybe. I don’t care.

      I agree with much of what David Cameron said recently about “state multiculturalism”. I agree with much of what Roger Scrutton and Melanie Phillips write about this issue. But always within the understanding that freedom of religion and cult is an essential foundation of a free society.

      • aesthete

        I don’t see what a ban on burkas accomplishes, even: are the hardcore wifebeaters or religiously devout going to let “their” ladies out in skimpy attire (or even what we would consider “modest”), or are they just going to lock “their” women in their homes?

      • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

        I mean the piece from Calgary. It makes it obvious what I’ve been trying to say: The burqa is not a form of “dress.” Dress is what the woman is wearing underneath that horrible thing.

        Burqa is a “portable concentration camp.”

        And that’s not just western women saying that. Didn’t you read the response she got when she talked to burqa-bound women themselves? DID YOU EVEN READ THIS PARAGRAPH:

        “while in Afghanistan, I asked all of the many women I met there whether they liked wearing a burka. Not one said yes. In fact, they all said they hated it almost as much as they hated the Taliban.”

        One more question to aesthete and cordpt. Just curious: Are you male or female?

        • aesthete

          I don’t think it makes much of a difference for the sake of the discussion, though.

          Regarding the selected quote, I’m sure you would have gotten the same non-answer out of Spanish peasants regarding the rites of Catholicism in Franquist Spain, or from a lot of modern-day “Christians” who go to church on Sunday to buy peace with their significant other the rest of the week.

          Listen, I’m not trying to say that burkas are all that and a bag of chips, but in a world where BDSM, foot fetishes, Oprah, and other uncomfortable-seeming things are engaged in voluntarily by others, I don’t see where we can get off telling other citizens that their choice of clothing or lifestyle should be banned “for their own good”. I don’t have a problem morally condemning Islam and/or barbaric practices in the ME, but the voluntary wearing of a burka does not really concern me.

          • barleycorn

            Unless I’m mistaken, the point being made by Heartlander, Corbella, and Sarkozy, is that the wearing of a burka IS NOT VOLUNTARY. Muslim women are forced to wear it either by fear or actual physical force.

            Whether that is true or not I can’t positively say, but I have a hard time imagining that many Muslim women living in an Islamist culture get much enjoyment from life.

            When you can be beaten, raped, mutilated, and killed, just because you have an inny instead of an outty, wearing a burka to keep the peace makes sense but can hardly be called “voluntary”.

          • aesthete

            It clearly is not true in all cases: that shouldn’t even be debatable on a conservative site that defends Christians from the Marxist charge that religion and its structures (no sex before marriage, no adultery, etc) are inherently coercive. I’m sure that that is a life that I (and, for that matter, most women I know) would want to live, but it’s also not really my business *unless* there is proof of abuse. A burka is not in and of itself proof of abuse in the sense of physical violence like the violence mentioned above.

          • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

            …between the Judeo-Christian ethic, which has produced the most humane and human-dignity-respecting civilization in history, and the tyrannical misogyny of Islam, there is probably no way I can get through to you.

          • aesthete

            I also see no reason for our legal system to make a mockery of our right to free expression and freedom of religion (as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others) for the purposes of… what, exactly?

          • barleycorn

            “It clearly is not true in all cases: that shouldn

  • bobmontgomery

    as we are, sitting here in our private lives. But often they have to be circumspect in their wordage. Ordinarily, when you get a career military guy with a stellar reputation, you can count on him being, well, a stand-up guy, when it comes to action at least. There is the unfortunate exception, as in the case of a certain former Secretary of State, who apparently abandoned who brung him to the dance and decided the O’s idea of ‘outreach’ was a good substitute for promoting democracy. In the end, nothing you have pointed out about West sounds like it is disqualifying.

    • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

      I’m going to continue to give Congressman West the benefit of the doubt. And as I said in the post, if you read his letter in its entirety — not just the snippets that have been used by both sides, respectively — the tone of it doesn’t sound like “sell-out” at all. Rather, it seems like a remarkably firm but fair, well-reasoned reply.

      I think it’s that phrase “hijacked Islam” that jumped off the page at many of us. We’ve heard that damn phrase over and over and over from people who do not have our best interests at heart — that’s why it felt like a slap in the face.

    • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

      …for addressing the original question!

      And for speaking up in my defense earlier against the ad hominem (ad feminem?) attacks!

  • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

    Namely, has Allen West sold out and caved, or not? (See the last four sentences of the diary)

    THAT’s what I was really hoping to get some feedback about!