Is anyone else getting sick of the constant talk about the size of the Republican tent? Who gives a darn about the size of the tent if you have no idea where the tent is or what it looks like?
Right now, I know Republicans who are pro-gun and anti-gun, for intervention in Iraq and against intervention in Iraq, pro-life and pro-choice, pro earmark and anti-earmark, Christian and atheist, pro marriage amendment and anti marriage amendment, for stronger border security and for amnesty, and so forth and so forth.
And before you launch into it… I know, I know… the anti-amnesty crowd yells at the pro-amnesty crowd, and the pro-life crowd is vehemently opposed to pro-choicers, etc… I get it. It’s politics.
But the truth is, the Republican problem is not that the so-called tent is not big enough… no, it’s that the tent keeps moving around under the non-leadership of a bunch of Republicans more interested in “figuring out what the American people want to hear” than in defining a vision for America based upon principle – conservative, or otherwise.
In short, no one knows what Republicans believe or why.
I defy anyone out there to clearly (and I mean CLEARLY) define what Republicans believe and why. I assure you that it is close to impossible if you are honest – and don’t project what YOU think they SHOULD believe and why they should believe it. Then, the most you can do is throw out a few random halfway-consistent positions based on a hodge-podge of political and ideological views.
For example – take Iraq. I think you can say that Republicans generally were/are united around the view that we need to support our soldiers in full while they were/are there. Fair enough. But I certainly do not know what the Republican vision is for our 21st Century foreign policy, why we believe it and how Iraq fits into that vision.
Take healthcare. I haven’t a clue. Seriously… back in 2007, Republican Senators sat around in a room and came up with “Every American Insured.” That was nothing more than a politically motivated effort based on fear: “Oh my God, we have to do something about healthcare… it’s THE issue for 2008!” (kind of funny/sad in retrospect, actually).
I could go issue-by-issue.
Our job is to calm down and to concentrate on getting back to basics. That means that we must focus on the defining issues of our day and staking out positions based on some identifiable principle or set of principles. For me, as I have previously opined, those principles are freedom, limited government, fiscal responsibility, self-reliance, peace-through-strength and an appropriate deference and respect for the Almighty.
Reasonable people can disagree with those, I suppose. But we need to get back to the fundamentals and actually demonstrate a belief in them.
Now, as it relates to the increasingly-tired musings of Mr. Frum and those who continue to take the bait from the Obamanistas to worry about Rush and the evil talk-radio folks… one thing can be certain: we know what Rush Limbaugh believes and why. And, you know what? That is leadership. And, generally speaking, I agree with him.
If you are troubled by this (false, really) notion that Rush is the de facto leader of the Party, then force Party “leadership” to stand up and believe in something instead of complaining about Rush. I think Rush’s views are a fine place to start a discussion – and you are free to disagree with me… but please focus on the ideas instead of this ridiculous, made-up flap.
Let us move forward talking about ideas and most importantly, WHY we believe them. Let’s talk about Frum’s notion of higher gas taxes for lower payroll taxes and why we may believe it or not believe it, NOT why it may be what people want to hear. Let’s talk about Ramesh’s idea(s) of increased child tax credits on the same basis. Let’s talk about government spending and the role of government in our economy, and about our role in the Middle East on this basis. And so on…
There is great unity that can result from ideas based on principle instead of political expediency, and if we build a tent upon a strong foundation and leave it in place long enough for people to come in, we will win. Or, as the mystery voice declared in Field of Dreams, “If you build it, they will come.”
Jeff Emanuel
Neil Stevens
Caleb Howe
Daniel Horowitz
Lori Ziganto
Very well put...
MetaCosm (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:58PM EDT (link)> In short, no one knows what Republicans believe or why.
Absolutely true, and while it is simple, it is profoundly troubling.
> Reasonable people can disagree with those, I suppose. But we need to get back to the fundamentals and actually demonstrate a belief in them.
Political parties are not “perfect fits” — you vote with the party you feel you agree with “more”. That means, even if I disagree with a couple points, it doesn’t mean I can’t hang out in the tent.
> There is great unity that can result from ideas based on principle instead of political expediency.
The amazing thing about having a principled stance is that it makes you able to deal with the issues that have not yet come up. It give the people who vote for you a sense of security that even if everything changes, some set of principles will guide you.
~ MetaCosm
Here, here
red4ever (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 8:43PM EDT (link)Basic principles guide the approach to any particular issue. Since we don’t know for sure what we will face in the future, having a foundation is the most important thing. From that foundation, we can build the proper approach to any issue. Without it, you are just guessing at what will be the proper approach. Ad hoc governing makes for more messy governing than normal.
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante
If you want to write off part of the country...
liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 8:21PM EDT (link)Go for it.
RINO’s are about the best you will get from places like the northeast.
Rush Republican wouldn’t even win R primaries in places like CT or RI.
So, are you better off with a Lincoln Chaffe or Nancy Johnson who will sometimes vote with you or Shelton Whitehouse who will never vote with you?
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
The Party is absolutely better off without Lincoln Chaffee.
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 8:36PM EDT (link)As for other RINOs, I don’t have a problem with them as long as they are never, never, ever allowed to chair a committee like Judiciary or Finance or Rules. And they should have exactly no say in policy.
I can live with the ME girls and Nancy Johnson. By and large they are simply irritants and make no difference in the long run. Specter, OTOH, should be run through the nearest shredder – see Fargo – the man has done far more damage than any good anybody could come up with. If he’d been gone in his current term Jon Kyl would have been Chair of the Judiciary. I’m pretty sure things would have been different with President Bush’s judicial nominees.
Good point, I'd just like one clarification
mikefisk (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 8:49PM EDT (link)(my apologies, as this is in more of self-interest than anything)
What about those who would describe themselves (like I do) as libertarian-leaning? On a more-than-trivial number of issues, I find myself in relative opposition to the Republican Party, but identify far closer to the GOP than to the Democratic Party.
Would that mean somebody like myself, who is relatively anti-death penalty, pro-drug legalization, pro-immigration, and vehemently opposed to most of Bush’s major spending initiatives would be on the outside of the party? More just curious than anything; not like I’d ever run for elected office or anything.
“Once within the maw of Leviathan, degree of digestion is irrelevant.” – Michael Fisk
9.25, -4.77
excellent, productive question... thanks.
hogan (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:12PM EDT (link)in my view, absolutely not (re: being outside of the Party). I think there are a lot of things we face that are tough questions. But you do not have to agree on all those to have a similar basic philosophy.
I have strong libertarian impulses – but those tend to be tempered by my Faith and my respect for the Rule of Law (I am not presupposing anything of your beliefs on those points). But, for example, while I am not for drug legalization, I do have my qualms with rampant (esp. federal) criminalization and the SupCt’s Raisch case preventing CA from allowing medicinal marijuana (on federalism grounds).
I tend to believe in the importance of federalism precisely because it enables people to live among those who are like minded. So maybe you are anti-death-penalty and you choose to live in Mass rather than TX.
In short, the libertarian impulse is inherently consistent with limited government. My personal opinion is that we can maximize liberty by respecting federalism and localizing decision-making as much as possible.
Amen to Bush spending. Immigration is too long to talk about here, though I will say I am pro-immigration AND pro-enforcement.
This line a perfect case in point -
jerry38 (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 11:40PM EDT (link)“In short, the libertarian impulse is inherently consistent with limited government. My personal opinion is that we can maximize liberty by respecting federalism and localizing decision-making as much as possible.”
Respecting federalism – once a benchmark conservative principle that made it easy to answer certain policy questions, united the more libertarian with the less libertarian in the party, and didnt really alienate anyone. Now it seems more like just another political soundbite, trotted out only when the particular expansion of federal power is distasteful to Republicans in office, but ignorged when it is their expansion that is being discussed.
This is a great post – and we must define our principles, and then act on our principles if we ever hope to reverse the current trajectory. To do this we must have an uncorrupt leader, who will drag the rest of the party back to principles over power and politics.
“Justice is always naive and self-confident; believing that it will immediately win once recognized. That is the reason why the forces of Justice are so poorly organized. On the other hand, the Evil is cynic, sly and fantastically organized. It never ever has the illusion of the ability to stand on its own feet and to win in a fair competition. That is why it is ready to use any kind of means without hesitation. And of course it does – under the banners of the most noble ideas.”
–Vladimir Bukovsky
Mike -
liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:18PM EDT (link)I agree with you on every one of your points. I’m also in favor of gay marriage is a state wants it.
I was very opposed to the Bush spending spree and and find Obama orders of magnitude worse.
I think the less of washington the better.
I clearly don’t fit in the tent, but I vote almost 100% for R’s.
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
Considering there are only 2 tents with any electability ... nt
phxg (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 11:31PM EDT (link)It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. –Aristotle
Well, I'm not too far from you.
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:53PM EDT (link)I don’t care one way or the other about the death penalty. Frankly, I think life-without is a tougher sentence and it takes away a huge talking point for the left.
I’m not for “drug legalization”, but what we’re doing now doesn’t work. I just haven’t seen a “legalization” scenario that I can support. I really don’t want to get into that discussion here, it’s a big threadjack.
As far as spending is concerned, I’d gut the federal government pretty much top-to-bottom. I would not cut back programs, I’d kill off whole Cabinet level departments on day one, starting with Education, Energy, Commerce and anything to do with the EPA. On day two of my Administration I really get serious and hack some stuff.
Immigration? I’m pro-immigrant and I’d revisit our whole immigration scheme. At the same time I’d build a triple tier wall the full length of the Mexican border and start prosecuting employers who hire illegals. I’d cut off all funds to Mexico for anything that we didn’t directly control disbursements and only for projects that directly impact our national security. We really don’t need anymore lawn maintenance people in the country.
Are you better with Specter or Santorum
liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:14PM EDT (link)Specter beat Toomey and stayed in office. Santorum suffered the worst defeat by an incumbent senator in a generation.
Specter will vote your was some of the time. Casey will almost never vote you way.
So which is better?
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
again, it depends...
hogan (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:32PM EDT (link)specter does unseen harm to the Party behind the scenes. I wish I could expand on it more here, but he has done far more harm than most people know to the Judiciary Committee and to Senate Republicans.
That said, this has nothing to do with the fundamental point that our Party stands for nothing – from Mitch McConnell to Arlen Specter. Nothing.
I agree on spending. Disagree on gay marriage – as I don’t believe the people of Massachusetts should be able to (through judges) write the laws in Texas. That’s fine, and worthy of additional discussion.
Thanks.
Here we go again
Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:36PM EDT (link)Specter got Santorum’s endorsement, and throwing a fellow conservative under the bus is what got Santorum’s rear end kicked. Specter beat Toomey by calling in every favor he ever had, including the endorsement of W, and had the support of the NRSC – IN THE PRIMARY.
Maybe if we ran a conservative in the northeast we would see what happens. Your constant argument is one of presenting patently false choices “Either Specter or Casey! Which one? Huh? Huh? Huh?”
Very, very tiresome. You have shown a wonderful ability to take a fact, completely ignore the context and spin it into some sort of concrete absolute.
I wonder how the hell Reagan carried every state but Minnesota – I guess he was a moderate, huh?
Jack...
liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:44PM EDT (link)My argument is about reality.
Toomey lost to Specter and Santorum lost to Casey.
In PA, the moderates beat the conservatives.
Are you better with a moderate that will vote your way some of the time or one that will almost never vote your way?
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
Santorum won election and re-election
David123 (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:47PM EDT (link)the first time. He was a good candidate and a good senator.
David123
No it is not
Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:53PM EDT (link)You are taking one specific data point and spinning a generality. It doesn’t work, at least not with me.
So again I ask – how did Reagan win the northeast? By going moderate, or by articulating conservative principles clearly and confidently?
And to answer your question: Would I rather have a snake in my house or a snake in my yard? Hmmm – I don’t know…you tell me.
Reagan NEVER demanded purity...
liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:01PM EDT (link)Reagan NEVER demanded purity.
He even had a commandment about it.
He was the most successful outreach politician in our time.
He didn’t tell people who held long time polar beliefs that they were stupid or unpatriotic or “the enemy”.
He gently persuaded them to rethink their positions. He used humor and optimism and an unshakable belief in America and the American people.
To his core, he knew the American people would do the right thing is only given a chance.
He KNEW morning was coming to America again. He wasn’t about doom and gloom like so many R’s today.
He got loyalty because he never demanded it. He earned it.
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
if I may join in...
hogan (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:35PM EDT (link)Reagan had a gift – and as a result, a broad appeal. He neither specifically moderated his views on key issues to appeal to the NE, nor did he remain pure himself (he did, for example, cut a deal on Sandra Day O’Connor to court women).
The issue here is not purity. The issue here (per our exchange below), is getting Republicans to stand for something.
What I am saying is that the Party leadership stands for NOTHING. What can you honestly say they believe in?
Until we have some cohesive, binding principles… we will remain adrift. I posited some basic principles. Reasonable people (like the libertarian folks who have commented) will disagree with SOME. But let’s move beyond the tired old responses like (respectfully), would you rather have Chafee or a Democrat… or Reagan would have done x or y…
We can win this if we get back to basics…
"We can win this"
MetaCosm (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:44PM EDT (link)You know what, I don’t care if we loose. I would rather loose on a firm set of principal than win due to political triangulations. The only people who “win” with no principals are the damn politicians. Who gain power and wealth from it.
If we can win with them, great. If we can’t, still better to have them.
~ MetaCosm
I look forward to your opinion on this...
Bill S (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 11:06PM EDT (link)when you’re waiting two years to get your child treated for a serious illness because the Left has destroyed the health care system. Or you see your parents dying because their care has been rationed since they’re really too old to deal with anyway.
In case you can’t tell, I DO care if we lose. We lost. That’s why we have what we have now. Winning matters. As I said to another person here recently, I’m sure you’ll be quite secure in your knowledge that we have 30 some-odd solid conservatives in the Senate, but by God we didn’t support any of those squishes!
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
You Are Wrong
jerry38 (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:09AM EDT (link)Plain and simple. Stand for nothing so that we have a better chance of attracting those who stand for everything? Thats the philosophy? We have been doing that for years and all we have to show for it is Republicans who have no idea what conservativism is about and move further to the left every day.
You forget the media and the washington culture – they make the left sound so appealing that the rudderless republicans of today are nothing more than the democrats of yesterday.
If not our political leaders – who then will teach the public that conservative ideals are the right ideals? The media? The public school teachers? How about their college professors? No? -Maybe Hollywood will start pumping out movies with conservative themes. In case you havent noticed – Rome is freakin on fire. You want to wait a few more years and see if it puts itself out before suggesting that maybe we douse the flames with a cold fresh flow of conservative ideas?
“Justice is always naive and self-confident; believing that it will immediately win once recognized. That is the reason why the forces of Justice are so poorly organized. On the other hand, the Evil is cynic, sly and fantastically organized. It never ever has the illusion of the ability to stand on its own feet and to win in a fair competition. That is why it is ready to use any kind of means without hesitation. And of course it does – under the banners of the most noble ideas.”
–Vladimir Bukovsky
Oh really?
Bill S (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:45AM EDT (link)Quote me – what exactly did I say that I am “wrong” about? Give me a direct quote.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Your Premise
jerry38 (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 9:34AM EDT (link)Your premise is that by having conservative principles that we try to adhere to, we will alienate moderate voters, and we will end up with the left running the country into ruin. My point is that not having principles and catering to the call for moderates has landed us precisely with the scenario you fear. The left is running the country into ruin because we have ignored principles.
The other part of the problem with your premise is that some states are just hard core “moderate” and demand moderate government. Well PA didnt go for McCain did it? Wouldnt you have thought they would have voted for embodyment of the “moderate” ideal – John McCain.
I am not talking about a “fact” that I believe you are wrong on, I am talking about your entire premise. I think that it might take a book or two to cover this issue in depth, but yes I feel abandoning principles to win elections is not only wrong on principle, but in the long run it doesnt work, because people want someone with principles.
“Justice is always naive and self-confident; believing that it will immediately win once recognized. That is the reason why the forces of Justice are so poorly organized. On the other hand, the Evil is cynic, sly and fantastically organized. It never ever has the illusion of the ability to stand on its own feet and to win in a fair competition. That is why it is ready to use any kind of means without hesitation. And of course it does – under the banners of the most noble ideas.”
–Vladimir Bukovsky
Bull
Bill S (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 11:04AM EDT (link)You don’t understand my premise at all. You made a rash assumption based on virtually nothing. So you say I’m wrong based on your own imagination. You talk about “abandoning principles”. You don’t have a clue about what you are talking about. I haven’t said squat about abandoning principles. If you would spend just a little bit of time reading back through my almost 2 year history here, you’d find that I am one of the most hard right conservatives here. But I am also a realist.
My premise is simple: We cannot accomplish ANYTHING unless we are in office. Sometimes that requires some degree of compromise. Idealogues do not usually win. Politics is all about knowing when to compromise (now pay attention…) in a way that does not compromise principles but allows you to move towards the goal.
Check the conservative ratings on ACU and NJ. There are almost no reps/senators with 100% ratings. Reality is such that one must occasionally vote in a way that either represents their constituency in a way that goes against the book OR that helps move the ball forward strategically.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Example of the problem...
MetaCosm (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:13AM EDT (link)Your comment didn’t explain a single principal, a single ideal or a single way you would do better than the Democrats. It, if anything, exemplifies the problem Hogan spoke of…
It was just an appeal to fear. Trying to scare me into falling in line by using my natural caretaker instinct against me. You didn’t explain how the Left is going to destroy health care, and more importantly you didn’t explain how the Right would do any better.
Bluntly, we need to do better. I want Republicans to be Republicans, rather than NotDemocrats. Trying to bring new people into the fold requires more than being NotDemocrats, and until we realize that, I fear our downward trend will continue.
FYI, I am far more moderate on social issues than I am sure the majority of this site. But, that doesn’t mean I want shifty republicans trying to slime their way into nabbing my vote. I can disagree with someone on an issue, and happily vote for them.
~ MetaCosm
I was not attempting to explain any principles except...
Bill S (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:48AM EDT (link)“Winning counts”
Ideology isn’t worth a S**T if you don’t win. That is the point. That is the ONLY point. This is politics, not chess. These are lives we’re talking about, not books full of conservative theory.
Read the news, friend. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what the Dems have already embedded in the budget proposals and so-called stimulus plan to see a hint of what is in process. Are you all in for socialized medicine? That’s what is on the table.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Backwards...
MetaCosm (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:25AM EDT (link)You have it backwards…
“Winning isn’t worth a S**T if you don’t have ideology”.
Why not just run Republicans who vote 100% with democrats on issues in heavily democratic areas? Heck, have them run (and govern) to the left of democrats! It would be a Republican victory, you could put a check box in the win column.
IDEAS do matter, even more than winning (Goldwater). I am sick of being told that ideas don’t matter, and all we have to do is win. We have to define (and maintain) what we believe in and not give in to the shifting sands of merciless political pragmatism.
~ MetaCosm
Uh, no.
Bill S (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 8:09AM EDT (link)Explain to me, if you will, how being a perfect conservative allows you to change anything if you don’t WIN THE ELECTION? Sorry, but blogging isn’t passing legislation.
I never said ideas don’t matter. You’re reading what you want to see and not what I am saying. I’m saying that ideas don’t matter in politics unless you win the election.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Explaining
MetaCosm (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 8:45AM EDT (link)Even if you don’t win, if you have powerful and right ideas, you can pass them onto the next generation who will run with them. Goldwater was crushed, but passed on many good ideas and made the next generation stronger. Ideas are not bound by elections.
I am not a blogger (heck, barely even a commenter), so I won’t weigh in on the value of what you guys do with your time… I would agree it isn’t passing legislation, but you guys seem to have fun!
I have now responded to you, and answered why I think ideas can matter even if they don’t win.
“Republican” is simply a label. The point that hogan tried to make is the label doesn’t mean anything now. The argument that we shouldn’t take any positions (except anti-democrat) because it might help us win elections is (IMHO) two-fold wrong.
#1. I don’t think being slick and not taking positions helps us, I think it hurts us. I think that the ideas are not half bad.
#2. It makes the party a very weak majority party. Our thought process is centered around being NotDemocrats, so when we end up in power (Congress & White House) — we absolutely drop the ball… don’t do the things we promised, and don’t have any firm ideals to fall back on.
~ MetaCosm
I wasn't aiming at you specifically...
Bill S (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 10:22AM EDT (link)…so when I said “blogger” I was using the term globally.
I *think* you are interpreting what I say as “no matter what, we need to just give in to what the other guys are saying”. I think you should know me better than that
What I AM saying is that we have to be willing to support someone who is a conservative – but maybe not a PERFECT one – when they have the highest likelihood of winning. There are numerous examples out there. Note that virtually no one is talking up how we’re gonna kick out Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe. Why? Because likely they’re the best we’re gonna do, and they can (and do) win. And they count as R’s when the counting happens in the Senate (for majority purposes). Do they vote with us all the time? No. But they sure vote with us a lot more often than most of the D’s.
There are more subtle versions of the same situation. Obviously my favorite one right now is the MO Senate race. Blunt is a >90% lifetime ACU conservative. He scored over 94% on the most recent National Review conservative ratings for fiscal conservatism. Yet there are legions of folks out here who want to kick him out because he voted with Bush on several items. GMAB. The guy is a fundraising machine. He is a proven winning candidate with unbelievable name recognition. Yet because he’s not 100% hard-core FDT conservative, we want to kick him out for someone who has never won a major election other than state auditor. I find that to be unwise, to put it mildly.
Sure – ideas count. But politicians are little more than talking heads unless they actually win.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
liberalrepublican-I believe your comments are the proof
Scope (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:39PM EDT (link)of exactly what Hogan wrote this diray about. If you have principles, and you stick by them, why would you want someone in Congress because he may vote with the Republicans some of the time? Isn’t that exactly why the Republicans are in the minority right now? Again as Hogan said, to be willing to accept someone, from any state, who doesn’t believe in and abide by a set of principles, only dilutes the message, and absolutely confuses everyone as to what and/or who the Republicans are.
what did Lincoln Chafee
hogan (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 8:51PM EDT (link)ever do to inspire anyone? What principles did he stand for?
None. And he lost – badly – despite having the support of the NRSC (when that money may have helped Burns, Allen or Talent).
Why is it that if you dare to suggest we need a guiding philosophy, the inevitable nay-sayers come out to suggest we want to narrowly define the party and “write out” certain people or groups. That simply is not true.
I started the piece by suggesting we already are a big tent. I then tried simply to point out the importance of finding folks to actually lead and to define our Party according to a coherent, reasonably consistent set of beliefs…
I read your piece...
liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:10PM EDT (link)I think in certain places in the country, you won’t win R primaries, let alone elections with people who pass the purity test.
Is it better to have them as R’s, vote with you some of the time or would you rather be a disciplined minority party?
It’s an interesting debate.
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
but I am not suggesting a purity test...
hogan (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:25PM EDT (link)I am suggesting that the Party is totally adrift, with no leadership… and that there are no discernible guiding principles or beliefs guiding our supposed “leadership.”
The choice you are trying to force is a false one. No one pushed Lincoln Chafee, Mike DeWine, Gordon Smith, Norm Coleman (perhaps), or anyone else out of the Party. They lost. They didn’t lose because they were too conservative, else the states in which they are running are hopeless for Republicans. I suspect they lost more because the Party as a whole drifted far from our fundamental principles – particularly of limited government and fiscal responsibility.
You have a good point...
liberalrepublican (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:36PM EDT (link)I was only suggesting that it’s a big country for just 2 parties and the tent may be different in the NE than TX.
But you are right – there does need to be certain core beliefs that don’t change.
“Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. … including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy”
Okay - Here it is
JX12 (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 9:42AM EDT (link)There are – in my mind – two types of politics:
1) The politics of principle. This is when a politician has a core set of beliefs which drive him to run for office in the best interests of the nation.
2) The politics of self-interest. This is when a politician is running for office for personal gain. Winning comes first, and national interest comes – at best – second.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out which politicians are the big-tenters. The conservative base isn’t fooled either. Reagan ran primarily on principle, and we all know the result. The case can be made that subsequent Republican presidents were a mixed bag, but – aside from the 1994 smackdown – the congressional Republicans started drifting toward big-tentism….and we all know the ultimate result of that as well.
Better to lose on principle than LOSE BIG on big tentism. In any case, losing on principle (on those few occasions when it happens) is a short-term proposition which I’m convinced ultimately still results in electoral gains in the long run. Losing on big tentism is more of a permanent thing unless people wise-up.
there are two necessary "purity tests."
AKSteveB (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:00AM EDT (link)One has to be federalism. There are now two societies living side by side. I see nothing in the forseeable future that is going to change that. Especially for the SoCons (of which I’m not one) but really for all of us, the most important thing is that we be able to live our lives in relative freedom, and raise our families and live in our communities as we see fit. We’re on defense on this right now, and first we have to stop the bleeding. We’ve screwed up on a lot of this ourselves (NCLB anyone).
The second is National Security. We probably disagree on the details of this, but I’m sure we all agree that all freedoms go by the wayside if we have an unrealistic, pacifistic, “let’s all sing kumbaya” approach to defense.
I see room in the big tent for just about anyone who can adhere to these two things. A strong defense with local control of domestic issues allows room for legitimate differences between regions on what conservatism (or liberalism) for that matter means to them.
Hell is other people – Sartre
Again, I don't have a problem with RINOs --
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:44PM EDT (link)in their place.
And I would REALLY like to see the leadership of the Party get down and dirty nasty. There are some votes that must carry. For instance, there is no way in hell that a single Bush judicial nominee should have been before the Judiciary more than 90 days when the Republicans held the majority in the Senate. Bush and Santorum both campaigned for that worthless sob Specter and he thru W’s nominees under the bus without batting an eyelash.
Another example was Voinevich voting NO on the best UN Ambassador nominee since Reagan left office. That was unconscionable.
Again, back to Chafee. When a US Senator publicly says he won’t vote for his Party’s nominee for President, he should be taken on a long ride.
Nobody is pushing a “purity test” please get off that tired bloggyhorse. We are asking for a leadership that leads.
Baloney
jimmuy8 (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:06AM EDT (link)On two counts:
1) When RINOs like Specter are the face of the party–and he was during the biggest Senate vote all year, and for some time to come–he is pure poison to the brand; a death trap hung around the neck of any fiscal conservative; the dagger to the heart of the biggest plank of the platform that has the broadest appeal.
2) Saying you can’t run a conservative in the so-called liberal states or cities is the same stupid, short-sighted defeatist mush-headed thinking that has the party on the outside looking in. How many here comforted themselves 18 months ago because of the “you can’t run a hard-core liberal and win the Presidency?” Not so nice now? Oh, I remember seeing the hoots all over the right side of the net about how that green-behind-the-ears, neo-Leninist was going to get stomped in the primary; then the general.
We are losing the cities and the states because we are not running conservatives who are willing to articulate their ideas; stand up to the entrenched leftist media in their local and fight back with intelligence and determination (and we are doing a poor job cultivating these people)–and when we’ve gotten the rare bird who will, we let the machinery of the party elite grind them up and knee-cap them before they even get off the ground.
You can take 3 basic conservative positions and run them by any life-long Democrat voter and 60%+ will agree with you on all 3 and more will agree with 2+. How do I know? I seen it in real life.
But we’ve let the left so muddy the Republican name, we’ve let “good soldiers” like Specter so soil our platform, we’ve let celebrities like Arnuld so embarrass the concept of conservatism that we have a whole war itself just cleaning our own house and name before we can even hope to get back to the ground where we can debate ideas on fair footing, let voters set us side by side and compare.
All the hoopla about Rush and how he is bad for our image and yet–what position, what idea that Rush speaks of is bad for the party, what does he say that won’t lead back to electoral success?
So, we can keep focusing on image and likability, running half-wit, half-Republicans: And keep losing more and more of the country. We just had one big, huge experiment in running the kind of conservative that we are told time and time again needs to be run by Republicans to win the country–and “Good Morning President Obama.”
That's why I expect to see...
realityunwound (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 8:52PM EDT (link)Newt beginning to increasingly fill the leadership vacancies in the party. He’s an ideas guy, he’s got experience, he knows how Washington works, he’s truly conservative, you know where he stands and why, and he’s not afraid to point out the obvious truths.
Jindal, Pawlenty, Palin, Sanford, even DeMint are all viable, strong voices, who could do it, and I think Gingrich would defer if one of them made a strong run. I’d even like to see a Jindal/Gingrich ticket, although all we’d hear is how Gingrich is the one running the show.
http://www.realityunwound.com
Welcoming People Into the Tent
Mike Gray Sunday, March 8th at 9:01PM EDT (link)I was kind of annoyed reading Michael Steele saying a while back that “everyone is welcomed into the tent” and that all ideas would be welcomed and all that. Sorry, but that’s exactly the problem. We welcomed those into the tent that are Democrat-lite and now conservatism is dying a hasty death.
When one party says, “let’s make government bigger!” and the other party says, “let’s not make government bigger!” and then does it anyway, exactly how are we supposed to convince people that conservatism is the way to go?
I for one would like to evict a lot of people from the tent and then sew the flaps shut.
Hunting down the RINOs at rinosafari.com
What does exactly "welcoming into the tent" mean?
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:50AM EDT (link)1. Lighten or sugarcoat some of our conservative stands so that liberals can fit it?
or
2. Attracting liberals to change their views and welcome them into the tent?
I think option “1″ involves some intellectual dishonesty. I find it campaigning just for the sake of winning. Yes, they may vote for Republicans/conservatives. But in the end, these liberals/democrats shall also be the first one who will be disinfatuated and dissatisfied when Republicans implement their conservative policies and programs. Again, we will be just repeating our previous mistake.
I think that option “2″ is the best way forward. We need to create a “solid base”. We need to expand the base like the Democrats did in the last 8 years.
It’s the base that guarantees win, not the confused moderates.
Reagan called moderates as “confused” liberals/democrats.
We have a base
Mike Gray Monday, March 9th at 10:43AM EDT (link)We’re just largely disenfranchised because conservatism can hardly be found in government or even in candidates anymore. I think option 2 is a good one because we’re doing good things if we can convince people that conservatism is the way to go.
But if we’re not going to run AND govern on conservative principles then the base will not be on board. And to be clear, I’m talking about the conservative base, not the Republican base. There are plenty of Republicans that would vote the ticket if Pee Wee Herman was running. But there are many conservatives that would just as soon stay home or vote third party than to vote for some RINO.
Hunting down the RINOs at rinosafari.com
5!
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:30PM EDT (link)I’m talking about conservatives too.
The tent mover party
10ksnooker (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:07PM EDT (link)Sounds to me they need a tether. Something to hook onto, like first principles.
We got butt boy saying there are no earmarks in the bill with 9000 earmarks in it. OK, so what is he calling earmarks this week?
Have you got the hang of this jive talk thing yet?
Hogan its the loss of control...
Darvin_Dowdy (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:04PM EDT (link)…and the gradual pushing aside and diminishing of the Constitution. And in its stead our elected Republican rep’s are focusing on the edicts of world governing bodies, demands of foreign gov’ts, NGO’s and even the MSM. This is what has a very large segment of former and “estranged” GOP voting Base extremely concerned. Concerned enough so that many Stayed at Home or protest voted for the sole purpose of getting the GOP’s attention. Like the proverbial 2X4 up side the head.
Pitch your political tent directly over the Constitution, Hogan. And the GOP must form up some sort of “enforcement” arm that punishes those who wander to far from the document. Mean business. Move back toward the Rule of Law away from Selective Enforcement. Opposite of the destructive “wrecking crew” of Bush43 and K. Rove who did more damage with their strategy of “pandering” , creating the political mess the Party is in now. DD
this I agree with
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:55PM EDT (link)“For me, as I have previously opined, those principles are freedom, limited government, fiscal responsibility, self-reliance, peace-through-strength and an appropriate deference and respect for the Almighty.”
I understand what you are trying to say, but when you say you know “anti-gun republicans” it seems more of a rhetorical point. the one thing you don’t say explicitly is complete adherence to the Constitution and Declaration; an act that obviously leads to the positions you hold dear.
I agree our current leadership is weak. We should have thrown them out in 2006, but we did not. We should have replaced tired DC insiders with the likes of Flake and Cantor at the TOP of the leadership.
the reality is we do need a big tent if our goal is to win elections with demographics and education as headwinds. We can’t make everyone a dittohead, but we can have many charismatic and intellectual conservatives speaking to the people in a way that brings them along. We also have the advantage that the lunatics are in charge of the asylum. The American people are notoriously fickle and have the attention span of a fruit fly. They will turn on Obama as they turned on Bush, even though the press willl do its best to stop it. I am not saying we will not have to work, we will have to work twice as hard as we ever have. But the fact is we DO need a tent large enough to get 51 percent of the electorate. the more they suffer under Obama, the more they will join us….for now.
Molon Labe!
thanks and...
hogan (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 11:10PM EDT (link)re: anti-gun republicans. I do happen to know a couple (though relatively few, admittedly) republicans who are (misguidedly in my view) for more gun control. and there’s the obvious: McCain (gun show loophole) and a few others. And it does make a nice rhetorical point.
On Constitution and DoI, yes… I agree – and they do lead to those positions – particularly limited government, which is why I did not include… but yes, yes, yes…
And, yes, we need a big (enough) tent, of course, but I think we (especially our “leadership”) focus too much on the tent for the sake of it – which results in “what do they want to hear” kind of policies… and that will not work.
yes
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 7:45PM EDT (link)leave the rule by polling to the Dems.
Molon Labe!
What the Republican Party (Supposedly) Believes
ColdWarrior (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 11:26PM EDT (link)From the for-what-it’s-worth department, when I fax my comments to the so-called leaders (McConnell, McCain and Kyl) and others, I tend to remind them that if the are searching for principles upon which to base their opposition to Obama’s march to socialism, etc., they might want to refer to the Party Platform. Recently I pulled together the following list and used it when corresponding with them (I included the part about Amnesty because McCain and Kyl, my Senate servants, were part of the Shamnesty Cabal. Also, the topical headings are mine, not from the Platform.):
Core Principles from the 2008 Republican Party Platform Relevant to the January 2009 Debate over the so-called “Stimulus Bill” and generally for contrasting Republican goals from those of the Democrat Party (http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/)
Republicans Oppose Amnesty for Illegal Aliens
We oppose amnesty. The rule of law suffers if government policies encourage or reward illegal activity. The American people’s rejection of en masse legalizations is especially appropriate given the federal governments past failures to enforce the law. (P. 3.)
Republicans Support Enforcing Constitutional Safeguards
Republicans will uphold and defend our party’s core principles: Constrain the federal government to its legitimate constitutional functions. (P. 15.)
Republicans Support Only Constitutionally Necessary Federal Spending
Spend only what is necessary, and tax only to raise revenue for essential government functions. (P. 15.)
Republicans Reject Unconstitutional, Wasteful Pork-Barrel Special Interest Spending
The other party wants to continue pork barrel politics; we are disgusted by it, no matter who practices it. The other party wants to ignore fiscal problems while squandering billions on ineffective programs; we are determined to end that waste. The entrenched culture of official Washington – an intrusive tax-and-spend liberalism — remains a formidable foe, but we will confront and ultimately defeat it. (P. 15.)
Republicans Will Stop Unconstitutional Special Interest Earmark Spending
Earmarking must stop. To eliminate wasteful projects and pay-offs to special interests,
we will impose an immediate moratorium on the earmarking system and reform the
appropriations process through full transparency. Tax dollars must be distributed on
the basis of clear national priorities, not a politician’s seniority or party position. (P. 16.)
Republicans Believe “It’s Your Money, Taxpayers”
The most important distinction between Republicans and the leadership of today’s Democratic Party concerning taxes is not just that we believe you should keep more of what you earn. That’s true, but there is a more fundamental distinction. It concerns the
purpose of taxation. We believe government should tax only to raise money for its essential functions. (P. 23.)
Republicans Oppose Using the Tax Code for Social Engineering
The Republican Party will put a stop to both social engineering and corporate handouts by simplifying tax policy, eliminating special deals, and putting those saved dollars back into the taxpayers’ pockets. (P. 23.)
Republicans Support Reducing Corporate Tax Rates
We support a major reduction in the corporate tax rate so that American companies stay competitive with their foreign counterparts and American jobs can remain in this country. (P. 23.)
Republicans Know We Cannot Tax and Spend Our Way to Prosperity
The last thing Americans need right now is tax hikes. On the federal level, Republicans lowered taxes in 2001 and 2003 in order to encourage economic growth, put more money in the pockets of every taxpayer, and make the system fairer. It worked. If Congress had then controlled its spending, we could have done even more. (P. 25.)
Republicans Believe Workers Have a Right to Secret Ballots
The recent attempt by congressional Democrats to deny workers a secret ballot in union referenda is an assault, not only against a fundamental principle of labor law, but even more against the dignity and honor of the American work force. We oppose “card check” legislation, which deprives workers of their privacy and their right to vote, because it exposes workers to intimidation by union organizers. (P. 28.)
Republicans Believe America Must “Drill, Baby, Drill”
If we are to have the resources we need to achieve energy independence, we simply must draw more American oil from American soil. We support accelerated exploration, drilling and development in America, from new oilfields off the nation’s coasts to
onshore fields such as those in Montana, North Dakota, and Alaska. The Green River Basin in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming offers recoverable shale oil that is ready for development, and most of it is on federal lands. (P. 32.)
Republicans Support Domestic Oil Refinery Construction
To deliver that energy to American consumers, we will expand our refining capacity. Because of environmental extremism and regulatory blockades in Washington, not a single new refinery has been built in this country in 30 years. We will encourage
refinery construction and modernization and, with sensitivity to environmental concerns, an expedited permitting process. (P. 32.)
Republicans Believe our Environmental Laws are Out of Control
Any legislation to increase domestic exploration, drilling and production must minimize any protracted legal challenges that could unreasonably delay or even preclude actual production. We oppose any efforts that would permanently block access to the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (P. 32.)
Republicans Support Construction of Nuclear Power Plants
Confident in the promise offered by science and technology, Republicans will pursue dramatic increases in the use of all forms of safe, affordable, reliable — and clean –nuclear power. (P. 32.)
Republicans Believe Patients Should Choose, Not Bureaucrats
Republicans believe the key to real reform is to give control of the health care system to
patients and their health care providers, not bureaucrats in government or business. (P. 37.)
Republicans Oppose Unconstitutional Socialized Medicine
Republicans support the private practice of medicine and oppose socialized medicine in the form of a government-run universal health care system. (P. 37.)
Republicans Believe Education is a Local and State Responsibility
Education is a local and state responsibility.
Education is a parental right, a state and local responsibility, and a national strategic interest. (P. 43.)
<<<<<
Of course, it’s kind of hard for our vaunted party “leaders” to take a principled stand on any of the above principles when they themselves have abandoned them. For example, a few days ago I received the Nat. Repub. Senatorial Comm. fundraising letter from John Cornyn last week (which you probably alsoo received) with a fundraisng sheet with a heading, “Pledge to Defend Our Republican Values.” Hmmm. He only sponsored $85.9 M in earmarks. I faxed it back asking upon which Republican value he pinned the $85.9 M of other people’s money in earmarks he slipped into the bill.
I guess I should know better that our leaders pay any attention to the Party Platform. It’s so important to the Arizona GOP that they have a link to it buried on their web site — only problem, they link to the 2004 Platform. I’m not making that up.
Thank you.
In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?
Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Unified Patriots.
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and
Coldwarrior-You forgot the Republican Platform regarding Global Warming
Scope (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 11:54PM EDT (link)I think your post is terrific, however, what do you make of the section on Global Warming. From my reading of it, they have taken the blue pill. Something else I read recently was that when the platform is being written it is done in a way to favor either the President if he is a Republican or in the case in 2008, it was written to favor McCain, hence the buy-in to Global Warming. That section needs to go big time.
Again, hogan is so correct that Republicans need to do a book report on “The Principles we believe in, and abide by.”
1000%
jerry38 (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:23AM EDT (link)I agree. I really would not have voted for McCain if it had not been for Palin. I was going to sit out. Life and limited gov. are probably my biggest issues, but the Republicans joining in on the global warming scam just made me see red every time I thought of it. If a lie is repeated long enough Republicans will abandon the truth. Its the heart of this whole post – you cant win elections without supporting your base – the people who are going to do the groundwork. But the party sacrifices the groundwork along with the truth beucase some moron like Brooks says the party needs to be moderate to win.
“Justice is always naive and self-confident; believing that it will immediately win once recognized. That is the reason why the forces of Justice are so poorly organized. On the other hand, the Evil is cynic, sly and fantastically organized. It never ever has the illusion of the ability to stand on its own feet and to win in a fair competition. That is why it is ready to use any kind of means without hesitation. And of course it does – under the banners of the most noble ideas.”
–Vladimir Bukovsky
Global Warming Scam
ColdWarrior (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:26AM EDT (link)In response to Scope’s and jerry38′s comments, I’ve only skimmed the Platform’s sections tonight on Energy Independence and Security and Environmental Protection and didn’t see anything in it (I may have missed it) about “Global Warming” (I believe the Platform’s choice of word is “global climate change”) nor did I see reference to support for “cap and trade.” But I do recall shrieking “Oh, no!” at the television when I heard Sarah Palin, in response to a question, matter-of-factly state that, yes, indeedee, the McCain-Palin ticket supported “cap and trade.” I imagine she was told by the McCain camp that they had to pay lip service to support of “cap and trade.” Principled stands against it, of course, would have been better. We need to be a choice, not an echo, for the voters.
In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?
Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Unified Patriots.
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and
Thank You
MetaCosm (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 5:35AM EDT (link)Thank you very much for compiling this list for us. Here is my condensed version of your list!
#1. Oppose Amnesty for Illegal Aliens
#2. Support Smaller Government / Less Taxes / Constrained Government
#3. Oppose Union Power Expansion (protect secret ballots)
#4. Support US generated power (oil drilling, nuclear, refineries, protection from environmental laws)
#5. Oppose Health Care Nationalization.
#6. Support localization of Education decision making (and financing?)
~ MetaCosm
I agree on this.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 6:01AM EDT (link)On constitutional safeguards, we need to be specific on our stand wrt gay marriage and abortion. These are the main issues that the left has lied against us and drastically destroyed the republican/conservative brand.
Our position, as I understand, is that said issues should be within the purview of the State powers, not Federal. And we respect individual opinions on abortion and gay marriage. Meaning if the majority within a State has become gay or has become tolerant of gay marriage, let that State make its own decision through suffrage. Same applies to abortion.
Making the tent bigger than that is a way way NO to me.
If I may be so bold,
devCharles Monday, March 9th at 12:31AM EDT (link)Democrats aren’t quite as unified as they would have you believe. They may have unified behind Obama, but the labor unions aren’t exactly pallin’ around with the environmentalist people. A strong environmentalist agenda tends to create more costs in a business and a tougher chance of them getting more money. The ACLU people aren’t exactly huge fans of the censorship people. Self-explanatory, I think. There’s also a lot of religious folks in the democratic party, especially amongst minorities, that most definitely wouldn’t jive with the extreme atheists. The anti-war people weren’t exactly big fans of Clinton going into Somalia, into the Balkans, bombing Iraq, and on and on.
As far as I can tell the democratic party basically wants health care reform, and, on top of that, wants to stick it to rich people.
Maybe that’s the unfortunate truth. It’s not so much that Republicans need a unifying platform but someone to unify behind. That seems to be the real challenge to me. Someone who might make me forget about some of my more extreme libertarian opinions to support them because they have integrity and the battles they want to pick aren’t completely adverse to my point of view. Mark Sanford could definitely be that guy. I also want McCain to retire and Jeff Flake to take his seat. Let Jindal try his hand at Obama 2012, but I’m looking to 2016 for my dream ticket.
Sanford/Flake 2016.
“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” – Ronald Regan
It's not the democratic party- it's the liberal supporters
Scope (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:53AM EDT (link)who voted for this idiot who want what they think will be “free” healthcare, and to stick it to the rich, and the far left radical party, who has the reins, is only to happy that they have bought their lies. I’ve wondered what will happen with Obamas pay-backs to the Unions and the Greenies. I guess the greenies won out over the United Coal Miners Union. No worries, they can collect unemployment for the next long time, and the government will pay 65% of their Cobra healthcare premiums. I also wondered how the anti-war people felt when they heard Obama is going to pull our troops out of Iraq in about 18 months, and he is sending a surge in troops to Afghanistan. Uhh Ooo- are we going to see Cindy Sheehan again.
Jerry38- See Skanderbeg's post on the AGW meeting
Scope (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:36AM EDT (link)You will like it, and so should every Republican.
Right now there are 44 comments on this diary
Scope (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:14AM EDT (link)and as yu have said hogan, there is no consensus between the commentors at all. You have proven your point, the party is as divided as you have said.
*nod*
MetaCosm (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:30AM EDT (link)I love a post that has meaning, and meta-meaning, just terrific.
~ MetaCosm
:)
veto Monday, March 9th at 1:30AM EDT (link)I think as Republicans we must learn to be more tolerant of other Republican beliefs. We cant demonize a group if they dont adhere 100% of what the rest of us believe.
A perfect example on the last election would be a candidate like Ron Paul, who was anti-war, but at the same time a true conservative. A lot more conservative than lets say John McCain who won the Primaries.
During the primaries the party was pretty hard on him, and I witnessred many messegeboards who banned Paul supporters, or any discussion about him on their website. At the time I really didn’t know what to think about it. But as I learned more about the man, I understand what drawn people to him. An alienating these people was a bad idea. And today its a worst Idea because everytime turn on the damn T.V. hes on it. It seems his popularity has jumped 10 fold since the election.
Personally I think as Republicans we should send the message that you can be antl-war and still be a part of the party. I mean look at Obama a lot of his supporters are upset with him because they feel like hes moving towards the center. But he made sure he didn’t alienate these voters during the election. I think we as Republicans did. This doesnt mean that we should be voting for liberal republicans. But when we like someones views 90+% of the time maybe we shouldnt damn them for the other 10%.
Why they got banned...
MetaCosm (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:35AM EDT (link)It wasn’t primarily for their ideology, it was for the abusive method with which they tried to spread it.
Comment spamming, message board flooding, tons of off-site linkage (entire posts). It caused an endless headache for site administrators and editors.
They made themselves a disruptive force in other peoples backyards — and got all shocked and bothered when they got banned. They were rude-guests, and they were asked to leave.
~ MetaCosm
What about non-believers?
DL80 Monday, March 9th at 10:21AM EDT (link)“For me, as I have previously opined, those principles are freedom, limited government, fiscal responsibility, self-reliance, peace-through-strength and an appropriate deference and respect for the Almighty.”
I realize that this is only your own personal set of principles, but I would guess most conservatives probably agree with this. And to be honest, even though I’m a liberal, I respect all of these core beliefs. I even like some of them. But I am wondering what do you do about the non-believers and the barely-believers?
A recent huge Pew Poll showed that 5% of Americans are outright atheists. 4% are very strongly agnostic. By these numbers, conservatives have 91% (at least) of the population open to receiving a message that is at least quasi-religious. But it doesn’t tell the whole story. Only 39% of Americans go to religious services at least once a week, and only 54% go at least once a month. That means, in my reading, that 46% are essentially barely believers. They may repeat certain religious tenets, and most of them do believe (at least vaguely) in God. But few, if any of those 46% are really living their religion. I think people are so caught up in the fact that very few people are outright atheists that they assume that everyone else is religious. But I think these numbers show that there are a lot of E+C Catholics, but also probably a lot of E+C Protestants.
Do you assume they have enough respect for God and the Bible (or the Koran or the Torah or whatever) that they are fully supportive of a culture of life and all that entails? I don’t think the question is that easily answered and I think conservatives should be mindful of finding better ways to reach out to those who are not devout.
http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#
Sorry for the delay...
hogan (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 8:36PM EDT (link)This is deserving of a response – because it’s a great question. One of many contributed to this post. Thank you.
I think I may offer my thoughts as a longer post… but in short, I believe that this is not very much different than other core principles. You either think it’s important for our nation to remain, as it has historically been, committed to respecting our Creator, or you do not. I think it’s important… even critical. And I think the vast majority of Americans would agree with that basic sentiment. It gets much more touchy when you get more specific than that… which then takes me to one of my other core principles – a limited government (that includes a respect for federalism and the right of people to live with like-minded folks according to their collective views).
I could write more, but will save that for a later post – but I appreciate this contribution and wanted to offer my thoughts – for what they are worth…….
Lucky timing
DL80 Tuesday, March 10th at 12:02AM EDT (link)I understand that. Keeping it vague may be one way of doing it. Turns out an even newer study came out today and was all over the news. Showed that the unaffiliated (atheists, agnostics, and the “I’m just spirituals”) are now up to 15%. Atheists have doubled in the past 18 years (they are still a miniscule number). I think it has become more acceptable to call oneself an atheist when 10 years ago you had to say “agnostic” or “I believe in God but not religion” or “I’m not any organize religion.” I don’t think any more people disbelieve; I just think they are more willing to say so. So it could very well be that things haven’t really changed at all. But if America is following the European secularization model (but 100 years later), that becomes a huge problem for any principles to be predicated on belief in a creator. Anecdotally, I think the Evolution/Creationism split forces many people to pick one or the other. ID is so widely disparaged in the media (fairly or not), that many people see it as modified Creationism. And once people wholeheartedly choose Evolutionism (not ID), it’s easier to disregard many religious ideas.
Agree: Stop Moving the Tent!
Ron Robinson (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 1:57PM EDT (link)________________________________________

Ron Robinson
Chair, AD 49 Republican Central Committee
California Republican Central Committee
PROCINCT Author/ Founder
The Precinct Project
Unified Patriots – How-To: Activists Taking Action!
Agree: Stop Moving the Tent!
Ron Robinson (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 2:31PM EDT (link)A Rasmussen poll today reveals that few know or care who leads the republican party:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/09/poll-who-leads-the-republican-party/
And I agree with Hogan that it’s time to calm down and get back to basics. Basics like changing votes face-to-face and on the phone. On the phone to battleground states and districts. To me, that mean remembering that all politics is local. And where Steele or Rush may not be able to change a vote, I can when I talk to my neighbors.
Blogging and social networking help – they help a lot – but a lot of that activity is preaching to the choir. Social networking often diffuses effort while Action Center tools focus effort.
I don’t care much these days about what Rush or Steele say to or about each other. Both should be saying something like ‘perhaps our tent is big enough to include the other guys views – there are probably many voters who feel the same way. And Steele should definitely have the presence of mind to start hyperventilating when we are called Nazis.
But that is not us grassroots workers.
The RNC cares about the party rolls because they want to be the big party and they want to be able to prove it.
I care about how people vote. It’s OK with me if they cross party lines to vote with me. It’s OK with me if the Republican party is the smaller party if they still seat a majority in Congress.
I think we simply need to prove with our votes that we can unseat anybody we don’t like. That’s all we need to do. That will get any incumbent’s complete attention regardless of how many special interests contribute to his/her campaign.
But it’s about talking to our neighbors. The very thing that most of us Republicans hate to do. Talk. Expose our beliefs.
Let our neighbor know that we think the tent is big enough to include them if they like opportunity, lower taxes, less government, personal liberty.
We won’t change a vote if we argue about choice or other party planks. We may change a vote if we talk about how we are inclusive. Do I really care about a voter’s position on choice if they vote with me? Fact is, I don’t.
So let the leaders jaw jaw and move the tent around. I will be talking to voters in my neighborhood about freedom , liberty and opportunity.
Those of you who know me suspect this is coming, so here it is:
The GOP is working on a new web site that will NOT have the tools we really need to influence votes. The GOP omits an Action Center like the one that was so effective for Obama in his campaign.
Well, the GOP’s idleness on this issue has not gone unnoticed and it will not stand.
A group of programmers, database and security people has taken matters into their own hands and are starting a conservative Open Action Center that will program and provide the online tools needed for conservative activism. in the districts and precincts. We had a successful conference call last night and a formal press release will be sent our later today.
We are going to build it, and they are going to come.
We need lots of help! If you are a coder or a database person, or just a blogger who can click a SUBMIT button, we need you to be a part of this.
Join us at http://gopguerrillas.ning.com if you can make an in-kind working contribution. What is it? Visit the site and find out. Join. Help. Help us win in 2010.
http://gopguerrillas.ning.com
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Ron Robinson
Chair, AD 49 Republican Central Committee
California Republican Central Committee
PROCINCT Author/ Founder
The Precinct Project
Unified Patriots – How-To: Activists Taking Action!