Following the release last week of the utterly indefensible DHS report titled, “Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment,” Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has reacted, effectively, with a yawn.
She issued a statement yesterday that fails to apologize and barely acknowledges the very alarming implications of the report.
We’ve covered this topic here at RedState (see here and here, e.g.), as have many others. Now, a group is calling for the head of Secretary of Department of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, at a new website, http://firenapolitano.com/.
The website focuses rightly on the unprecedented attack on law abiding Americans in the report – lumping returning veterans, pro-lifers, those who support tougher border security all into the category of “right wing extremists” apparently deserving of the attention of DHS. But it also focuses on what DHS may not be doing while it is pursuing a political agenda – for example, seemingly ignoring the very real threat of MS-13, a dangerous and ruthless El Salvadoran gang scattered throughout the United States.
Keep in mind that this is not the first time Napolitano has let politics interfere with justice. She served as legal adviser to Anita Hill and was directly involved with her entirely unsubstantiated claims against one of the best human beings in the world, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Roger Clegg commented about this on NRO last year.
Reasonable people can disagree about policies, but no leaders can be allowed to get away with the naked politicization of the law enforcement and national security function, and the folks at http://firenapolitano.com are calling her out for doing just that.
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Napolitano has to go
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 9:06AM EST (link)I called for her firing the day after the bogus report was released.
The country will not miss a thing if Napolitano is fired. She needs to shut up and be shipped off to the retirement home.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
The country will not miss a thing if Napolitano is fired.
olsmithie (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 9:41AM EST (link)Using your criteria, the whole “O” administration should be fired.
I heartily agree with your assessment.
Regards
We would not miss Mr. Zero either
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 10:00AM EST (link)So Mr. Zero’s people call Americans terrorists yet he praises them and makes nice with real terrorists. Obama & his people are a “man made liberal disaster”. The worst is yet to come.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Doesn't She Mean "Man-Made"
ObamaNo Tuesday, April 21st at 9:18AM EST (link)Why did Ms. Napolitano insist that terrorist attacks on Americans should now be referred to as “man made disasters?”
Apparently right wing Americans and veterans aren’t afforded the same sort of courtesy? The report refers to them as possible terrorists.
How sexist of her!
aesthete (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 3:07PM EST (link)Wymyn are just as capable as men of committing acts of terrorism, and her insinuation that they’re not is an outrage!!
/
And, yes, that is interesting, and highly hypocritical of her.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Her no-apology statement ...
skorrent1 (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 9:34AM EST (link)Included the line: “we do not – nor will we ever – monitor ideology or political beliefs.” But that is precisely what the DHS memo did. By using the phrase “Right-Wing” they tied the threat assessment to a particular ideology. Then, by mentioning the areas of abortion, immigration and federalism, they introduced specific political beliefs. All in a memo that encouraged federal, state and local law enforcement to increase awareness of, to “monitor”, those it identified.
In short, Napolitano lied!
I’m shocked! Shocked!
Probing Sentiment
MikeO Tuesday, April 21st at 10:12AM EST (link)The DHS report smells like something some KosKidz cooked-up in about two hours using a skeleton lifted from an assessment of actual operating terrorist groups.
Once the report made it into the wild, the administration’s first thought was probably, “Let’s watch some righty heads explode.”
Then, once it was clear that the 52 were going to stay mostly silent about the report, the administration figured, “If we don’t have to walk this back, then how far can we push this?”
Whether it was planned this way from the beginning or something that they stumbled onto is no longer important. Napolitano’s sidestepping statement tells me that the administration thinks that the 52′s silence is a mandate to press forward along this axis.
Gotto point this out
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 12:03PM EST (link)For the sake of full context: This “Right-Wing Extremist” report wasn’t started by this administration but the last, and Obama received a report on “Left-Wing Extremists” right after coming into office. There was also a similar report on “Left-Wing Extremists” back in 2001. Furthermore, Conservatism shouldn’t be confused with “Right-Wing Extremism.” I know the report points out single issues that Conservatives may have, but the report is more like a “profile”. For example, wen the FBI profiles serial murderers as white males, between 18-34, who have certain characteristics, doesn’t mean that all white males who are that age and match those characteristics are serial killers.
I think we all need to step back here for a moment and look at the full context. There are both foreign and domestic threats to safety. The Left as well as the Right have their Extremists — McVeigh, the Leftist anti-war groups in the 60′s (and more recently, although not as extreme). I think it is a mistake to get all riled up and think of this as a political attack, especially because this report was begun last Fall, and because a similar report attacking the Left cam out in January.
I know I’m going to be attacked for this post, but I think it wrong to be reactionary, and I think all the facts need to be looked at in context.
The only problem is McVeigh was not right wing...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 12:15PM EST (link)and the report on the Right-Wing Extremists was inflammatory and purposefully vague on actual groups and leaked in conjunction with the Tea Parties. That is the context that you are missing…more than likely willfully as you have yet to do anything here except try and justify Liberal behavior.
Quit trying to play us for fools Nick…you are only going to piss people off. Again.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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you mean you.
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 12:19PM EST (link)McVeigh was a right wing extremists…thats what those crazy militia people are. Right Wing Extremists does not equal Conservative. True the release of it was bad timing, but it still doesn’t take away from the fact that the report was begun under the past administration, and that reports like this and on Left Wing Extremism have come up in the past. Criticize the timing, but don’t simply ignore the context. Getting riled up about cherry-picked results is what both ends of the political spectrum do wrong.
McVeigh was not right wing...nickvirginia
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 12:26PM EST (link)and the fact that you think Nazi’s are right wing is proof that you are probably not a Republican or a conservative.
And you can continue with your circular logic fits as you did with the Gay Marriage slippery slope argument as much as you want…but it still won’t change the facts.
Nazi’s are and have always been left wing…..read a book once in a while that isn’t assigned to you by your prof.
Again if you only point here on RedState is to try and put forth arguments of moral equivalence and continual apologizing for the wrongs of the administration you time will be short.
This is not a bipartisan site…this is explicitly a partisan site….don’t like it…the door is open…you can leave.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Nazis?
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 12:41PM EST (link)I didn’t say anything about Nazis. They are left wing — so are Communists. The further you go toward the left, the more government control. The further you go toward the right, the less government control. Your not going to question that are you? That is the known qualities of the political spectrum going from left to right.
A Timothy McVeigh, or similar anti-govt.-militia-types, would be have Right-Wing views, while a Communist domestic terrorist would be labeled with Left-Wing views. What this doesn’t mean, is that everyone on the Right is a McVeigh, or that everyone on the Left is some crazed commie terrorist. And I don’t think either side should get flustered when these types of people are labeled as such. Simply being a person who is Conservative, and, therefore, on the Right, doesn’t mean you are aligned with the beliefs of the McVeighs in the world.
I’m aware that this site partisan, and, personally, I really like this site, but I’m not going to have my views bullied. I don’t post often, because I know that if I disagree I will be attacked without any of the merits being addressed. I agree with many posts on here, but I also disagree with others. I don’t think one needs to agree with everything written on this site (or any other for that matter) to be part of its community. I have posted on 2 articles in the 9 or so months that I have been reading this site. So, simply trying to label me based on those posts is obnoxious.
My posts on gay marriage were completely based in a legal argument, not a philosophical one (personally I think allowing for gay marriage can be framed as a conservative argument, albeit a Libertarian one, as Steve Schmidt stated recently). And this post here was simply putting this story in the factual context. Legal history and objective facts (such as when and what reports are produced) shouldn’t be labeled “partisan” arguments.
Partisanship should come down to philosophy. I believe X, you believe Y. So relax. You want to disagree with me that is fine, but I’m not here to get into the dirt with anyone, because that never fosters a good debate.
You are full of it.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 12:54PM EST (link)The reason I brought up Nazi’s is because those are the type of people that McVeigh worked with…he was not some libertarian small gov’t guy…that is just the BS the Clinton Admin fed to the public…you obviously took it hook line and sinker.
As far as judging you..
I can only judge you by what you write…I have no further information to judge you on. To think that I could judge you on anything else is what is really obnoxious.
As far as you using legal arguments to defend your stance on Gay Marriage and the slippery slope you are begin disingenuous. You also disregarded all legal arguments that didn’t support your position…typical leftist crap if you ask me.
Sorry if you feel that me challenging your views is bullying…maybe you should instead toughen up a bit and actually defend them with facts instead of crying foul.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Then McVeigh was a Neo-Nazi?
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 2:34PM EST (link)Neo-Nazis and the Nazi party are two different things. Nazis were a socialist/fascist type of government, which is a Leftist group. Neo-Nazis of today are simply a hate group, who don’t exactly support anything other than the racism of the original Nazi party, and are more of an anarchy group. Here is an article defining Neo-Nazis in Germany as “Right-Wing Extremists”: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,557204,00.html
I personally never heard of McVeigh being a Neo-Nazi, I was 11, when that happened, and from what I heard McVeigh was more aligned with the lone-wolf-government-hating-militia types, and that is what I can gloss from information on McVeigh on the net. He read anti-government literature, presented this to his sister, father and coworkers, etc. He went to Waco to show his support, and wanted to assasinate those involved, including AG Reno. He seems to be more of a “Right-Wing Extremist,” but when you get to the absolute extremes Right and Left Extremists can look an awful lot similar.
I also never heard anything about Pres. Clinton making this stuff up. His activities are pretty well documented from his family and ex-co-workers. But, regardless of what political spectrum he fell on, the man was a nut, and doesn’t represent Conservatives, Moderates, or Liberals. The whole point of my post is that “Extremists,” on either end of the spectrum, are just that, and not representative of legitimate political actors. They act in what they believe is Patriotism, but in reality it is a twisted logic, that calls for violence against Americans. It is abundantly anti-patriotic, and dangerous.
I rejected your arguments about gay marriage, because they didn’t chalk up to what the courts have held regarding rights, and restrictions thereof. Polygamy, although infringing on a fundamental right, can be restricted because it is narrowly tailored, and justified by a compelling state interest. Polygamy, as you argued, does infringe on the right to marry.
What you kept missing, and which was probably due to your lack of understanding of the law on this issue (I’m guessing your not a lawyer), is that laws can infringe upon such rights. Its not all or nothing. Its not that a right can never be infringed upon at any time, or it doesn’t exist. There are different levels of scrutiny regarding infringing upon rights. This is what you seemed to never acknowledge. You simply kept repeating(without a legal justification) that gay marriage makes laws against Polygamy unconstitutional. The point, however, is that, although laws against Polygamy are infringing upon a right to marry, whether your straight, gay, or bi, it doesn’t matter because infringing on the right with laws against polygamy meet the criteria that the court has articulated regarding strict scrutiny. Therefore, it will remain constitutional.
When the recent Iowa decision came down they rejected that a compelling state interest existed to ban same-sex marriage. This is the same construct used to evaluate polygamy laws, the former can’t be restricted (according to Iowa), the latter can (according to the SCOTUS). Both are evaluated through a heightened standard of scrutiny, the former passes, the latter fails, and is found unconstitutional.
So, I rejected your theory on the matter because it didn’t comport with the court’s constitutional interpretation regarding the right to marry. And then we went back and forth and back and forth, but while I based my arguments in the law, you simply didn’t, and claimed no legal justification for your theory. I did have a legal justification, and disagreed with you based on that, not out of blind ideology, but out of juris prudence.
Again, your argument was similar to questioning someone who had a theory based on evidence pertaining to the subject, while you offered no evidence to support your own. You simply held out a conclusion, and expected me to accept it without you telling me how you got there. If you can site to some sort of legal argument why gay marriage would alter the court’s view on polygamy, so that it would now survive heightened scrutiny, then I wouldn’t simply reject your argument. Just like in a math exam, you can’t simply state the answer is X, without articulating the reasons why it is X. I have articulated my reasons, you have not. Draw up a legal proof for why your conclusion is correct. Without that I can’t simply agree with you, because I have better “evidence” as to why I believe you are wrong.
Furthermore, wanting to base a conclusion on evidence has nothing to do with “leftist crap” or, for that matter, “rightest crap.” Insisting on being right by labeling the other side “leftist crap” doesn’t do anything to substantiate your argument. It only degrades it, and you don’t see me putting labels on what you think. Essentially, I say my conclusion because of X, Y, and Z, while you give a conclusion without an underlying basis, and try to discredit my evidence through a presumption of ideology. Its like kids on the playground. Johnny says why he believes X, and the other kid says I believe Y, and Johnny is wrong because he is fat.
You can talk in circles all you like nickinvirgina(troll)......
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 2:49PM EST (link)And you can dismiss me all you like for not being a lawyer…that doesn’t change the fact that you selectively choose which cases you will accept as evidence of the validity of the slippery slope argument.
Also I and many others have articulated the reasons why you are incorrect…your not accepting them doesn’t make you correct…it makes you disingenuous.
And you passive aggressive taunts won’t work here.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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lol
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 2:56PM EST (link)I have evaluated what you argument is. Its not that I don’t accept it because I think it is a baseless argument. I think it has merit, but what it is lacking are legal justifications based in the way the court has evaluated rights for, just about, the past 80 years. You are confusing my disagreement with being disingenuous. I didn’t know that I had to agree with everything you say in order to be labeled as an honest debater. I don’t need to agree with you, and disagreeing with you doesn’t make me disingenuous. I’m open to changing my mind, but I won’t without evidence. I believe my position because of pretty solid evidence, and reject yours, not because I don’t like you or your politics, but because it doesn’t match up with how the issue gets evaluated by the Court. That is not disingenuous. Its simply evaluating the merits and choosing the stronger conclusion.
wow nick you are dense...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 3:00PM EST (link)again it is not simply that you disagree with me…it is that Legal Scholars on RedState were also in that conversation and they did present specific facts and case law that you ignored because it didn’t fit your argument…that is what makes you disingenuous…and denying that is what makes you a troll.
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no..they didn't
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 3:02PM EST (link)they simply echoed your conclusion. And if they did give some legitimate legal underpinnings for their conclusion then I did miss it. Point the way, I will read it, and tell you what I then think.
you know where the article is...find it yourself...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 3:04PM EST (link)I am not here to do your research for you….especially since you are a disingenuous troll.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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Now that I have reread the article..
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 7:16PM EST (link)- The article gives no legal justifications, except for yours: gay marriage being legalized will mean that the logical end of the slippery slope will be realized and, thus, polygamy will be legalized. But there are other problems with the article:
1) This was a Canadian article, and there are distinctions between Canadian and American law (obviously), and the author talks nothing as to the scrutiny the Canadian courts give to various rights.
2) The article sites to an ex Justice of the Supreme Court:
“Claire L’Heureux-Dubé, the former Supreme Court justice, remains confident the drawbridge is firmly up. “Marriage is a union of two people, period,” she said in Quebec the other day. But it used to be a union of one man and one woman, period. And, if that period got kicked down the page to accommodate a comma and a subordinate clause, why shouldn’t it get kicked again? If the sex of the participants is no longer relevant, why should the number be?”
- The author then goes on to theorize that because Canada has taken a step to redefining marriage it will of course lead to Polygamy. He states no legal justifications, Canadian or otherwise, but does exactly as you have been doing: Merely stating conclusions without any legal justifications. His justification is that Gay marriage would be the first step toward polygamy, and because gay marriage has come to Canada, polygamy is next. That is completely circular and lacks reasons for why polygamy would be next. Polygamy is not the same as same-sex marriage (I think we all agree there is a difference between marrying multiple people and marrying one other person).
3) Then he goes on to site that there are already Polygamists marriages recognized in Scotland, which isn’t Canada, and which hasn’t recognized gay marriage, or partnerships for that matter (http://gaylife.about.com/od/samesexmarriage/a/legalgaymarriag.htm).
So, somehow analogizing to a country that has recognized some forms of polygamy, but not gay marriage means that gay marriage will lead to polygamy in Canada. How can B be the cause of A if A came first? Talking about Scotland having polygamy, and then stating that gay marriage would lead to polygamy in Canada only makes sense if Scotland recognized same-sex marriage first. But, again, they don’t recognize any sort of same-sex marriage or civil unions.
4) Then he goes on to state:
“[Canadian] objection to polygamy rests on the great wobbling blancmange of “Canadian values.” Polygamy is supposedly incompatible with “da Canadian value,” as M Chrétien used to call it. But surely da Canadian value is that we have no values. We value all values. To do otherwise would be profoundly un-Canadian.”
Somehow recognizing gay marriage means that all Canadian values have dissolved. That is a straw man argument. Because one thing is incorporated into a values system does not mean that all values will be incorporated. Especially when gay marriage is, in a numbers sense, the same as straight marriage: There are only 2 people getting married, the only change is the sex. The amount of people getting married is separate and distinct from the sex of the people getting married. Same sex marriage certainly takes you a little further down the “slippery slope,” but that doesn’t mean the law can’t prevent it from going all the way down to Polygamy. If anything, the American system of evaluating rights (levels of scrutiny regarding discriminatory laws) only prove that the system is well-adapted at creating distinctions and preventing the slippery slope. It isn’t black and white, the law is highly nuanced, and constitutional interpretation proves that out.
5) He sites one proponent of polygamy in Canada, who seems to indicate toward allowing Muslims to have polygamy in order to get more of them to immigrate. But again, this isn’t Canada, and American law has disallowed polygamy, even if it is based on religious beliefs, which throws that Canadian pro-polygamy activists argument out. Also, because someone is pro-polygamy and giving a reason for it, doesn’t mean that polygamy will be found legitimate by the court system.
6) There is a Canadian case going on in which a man has been charged with Polygamy — he also happens to be Mormon and has connections to the FLDS church. The defendant isn’t arguing that polygamy should be legal because same-sex marriage is legal, but, on religious grounds. So, even if allowed in Canada, that distinct issue has been settled here: Polygamy is disallowed, even when based on religious beliefs.
7) Same-sex marriage and Polygamy are not the same thing. The two are separate and distinct, and nowhere in the article does the author give a legal theory as to why polygamy and same-sex marriage in Canada should be congruent. Never mind the fact that Canadian constitutional law and interpretation is not the same as the United States.
Again, Canadian law is not the law of the United States, so it really doesn’t matter what Canada does, although I don’t think they will allow polygamy, and unlike Canada our prohibition on polygamy is pretty straight forward, and has nothing to do with the sex of the individuals. Here is a list of cases in which polygamists have failed repeatedly: http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/2009/03/review-of-polygamy-in-court-cases.html
To think the court would overturn all of that because the gender of marriage is disrupted, even though the gender has nothing to do with the number, is a bit, no a lot, of a stretch. No decisions of the court (federal or state) have come remotely close to legalizing polygamy.
You might argue that none of those cases existed in the age of same sex marriage. That is correct, but in 2007 a case was brought after the Court recognized homosexual rights in 2003 (Lawrence v. Texas). The defendant argued that because the Court recognized the rights of homosexuals, that they should also legalize Polygamy. The Cout denied cert., and, if anything, this extrmely supports my point that the rights of homosexuals and polygamists are NOT analogous: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/163128/united_states_supreme_court_declines.html?cat=17
This would be more evidence, on top of the large amount of cases rejecting polygamy over the past 150 or so years, that supports why I think I am right and you are wrong. You provide no such evidence to the contrary, and the only bit of evidence in American law linking polygamy to homosexuality (the paragraph above) supports what I have been saying.
So, if you would like to continue this please provide me with some actual evidence. Some actual legal theories linking homosexuality and polygamy and why same-sex marriage will lead to polygamy in the United States. If anything it seems the great weight of precedence stands in the way of your theory, and basing my argument on this evidence is not disingenuous, if anything it is very intellectually honest.
clarification
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 7:21PM EST (link)That is correct, but in 2007 a case was brought after the Court recognized homosexual rights in 2003 (Lawrence v. Texas).
- Lawrence v. Texas recognized homosexual rights to fornicate, and is not the name of the case that was denied cert. in 2007
Nickinvirgina....for the last time...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 7:32PM EST (link)and to end the threadjack
Iowa court ruled based on EPC that homosexuals could not be discriminated against.
Homosexuals are now a protected class.
The justification for them being a protected class is their sexuality.
If one sexuality is protected so should be others according to the EPC.
Bisexuals should then be afforded the distinction of protected class.
Since they have to choose, by marriage, only one sex to be married to, their sexuality is being discriminated against.
Bisexuals must be allowed to marry both a man and a woman.
Since bisexuals would be allowed to marry two people so could people who are heterosexual otherwise the law would not be equal.
You say only U.S. law matters…this is not true when you have Judges on the federal bench who cite foreign laws as precedent when deciding cases.
Finally, yes I understand it is a stupid argument…that is why I was against it when the Iowa Court decided the case.
Now you can write another 1000 words dismissing me because I am not a lawyer..but that won’t change the fact that your argument fails on it’s face.
Troll on troller.
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furthermore nickinvirginia...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 7:41PM EST (link)The case that was decided in 2007 skips an important step…which you continue to avoid. And if the case was made as I said above it would have been judged differently….additionally you have to consider the make-up of those who reside in any given court…not all courts will rule the same on all cases…this is the part of the reason the appellant courts exist and also get abused.
You should keep that in mind or else you are going to be a really poor lawyer.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
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I'm not worried.
nickinvirginia Wednesday, April 22nd at 11:59AM EST (link)“Bisexuals must be allowed to marry both a man and a woman.”
- And they would be in a state that recognizes same sex marriage. However, this is when we disagree, and that is fine:
“Since bisexuals would be allowed to marry two people so could people who are heterosexual otherwise the law would not be equal.”
- Bi-sexuals wouldn’t be allowed to marry two people. The marriage law would become gender neutral and state something like the following: “Marriage is between 2 people regardless of sex.”
- Bi-sexuals having a preference for both sexes won’t be discriminated against, because they can marry whomever they prefer to marry (male or female). However, as I said above, the amount of people you can marry is a separate and distinct from the sex of those whom you marry (in a same-sex marriage state). Bi-Sexuals will have more options as to who they can marry (since they can now marry the same sex), but having to only marry 1 other person won’t discrminate against them anymore than you or I having to choose 1 female. This is where we disagree. I feel I am right, but if a case ever comes before a court in a state that argues for polygamy based on same-sex marriage then we can both find out.
- As far as the makeup of the court. In order to accept a case at least 4 members of the court have to sign off on it. With 4 raging liberals on the bench, the polygamy case was still denied cert. So, I don’t think a more liberal court would really matter, and even if granted cert. I still don’t think it would be for any other reason than to, once again, reject polygamy, but on a different basis.
conversation with you is pointless at this point nickinvirginia...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, April 22nd at 12:11PM EST (link)you continue to purposefully ignore the *FACT* that the courts based their decision on the sexuality of the people creating a new protected class by using the EPC. This is the justification that will be used to make bisexuals a protected class as well.
You continue to be disingenuous. And keep avoiding that…hence you aren’t to be taken seriously…despite you being a lawyer in training.
I wouldn’t expect you to understand…having no grasp on common sense and what not.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
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The "right" has no relationship to Nazi or Neo-Nazi.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 2:50PM EST (link)It’s a lie that the progressives have used to distract us from the fact that the Nazi’s were originally part of the socialist movement.
You say “when you get to the absolute extremes Right and Left Extremists can look an awful lot similar.” Perhaps that’s because the people who the progressives would portray as “right-wing” are actually closer to their own ideology than anything that the right (both libertarian and conservative) would support.
We bristle about Nazi’s of any stripe being labeled “right wing” because the progressive are purposely trying to lump us into the same group.
We aren’t. Nazism, fascism, white supremacy, black supremacy, etc. have no relationship to us or our movement.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
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I didn't say they were
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 2:59PM EST (link)Extremists (Right and Left) are a totally separate and illegitimate subsection of political ideology. I don’t think legitimate left-leaning political actors would start defending Left-Wing Extremism either.
You did say they were right wing.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 3:26PM EST (link)I resent the implication that they and we have any relationship. Defining them as “right” is just wrong. You can object that it’s not YOU who is attaching this label, but you are repeating the lie.
They have NO RELATIONSHIP to us. NONE.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Take back our party!
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yea
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 7:30PM EST (link)Well, what I am saying is that the political spectrum goes from right to left, right? There are activists on each side. There are those protesting abortion clinics on the right, and PETA activists protesting animal testing on the left, for example. Neither of these groups are “Extremists” in the meaning of the report. They do have some attributes of Extremists (i.e., single issue people), but are not Extremists.
What I was saying is that once that activist decides to kill the doctors at that clinic or the researchers doing animal testing they step out of being a person on the Right or on the Left and become a Right-Wing Extremist and a Left-Wing Extremist. This doesn’t mean, however, that all Conservatives and Liberals are Extremists. The ones that step over the line of Free Speech and decide to become violent towards others makes them extremists, and when it is done through the lens of their political views they become an Extremist of that side of the political spectrum.
The Right Wing Extremist, however, doesn’t have a relation to a Conservative, because that step of militarizing beliefs and killing or hurting others is what makes them deplorable, and the same goes for those on the Left. When Extremists act out of their political beliefs they will be labeled as such, but that doesn’t mean all people right of center or left of center and beyond are the equivalent of those Extremists.
That is the point I am trying to make here.
Still a load of crap...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 7:36PM EST (link)I own guns.
I am a Veteran.
I attended a tea party.
I believe in limited government.
DHS has labeled these things as signs of “right wing” extremism.
They are taking into account the actual actions of these people that are making a blanket statement and encouraging profiling based on those criteria.
For you to try to justify this must take some grand contortions of your spine….that is if you had one.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Well, here's the problem:
aesthete (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 9:37PM EST (link)The report is so vague and non-specific, that it’s difficult to say that it is anything other than politically-motivated. It doesn’t list preventative measures, specific groups, or even specific extremity of beliefs, but only very vague categorizations under which many non-extremists fall into. Although I believe that the report on “Left-wing extremism” was also at least partially politically motivated, it does list specific groups and organizations that participate to some extent in extremist activity.
Granted, right-wing extremists tend to operate as “lone wolves”, but instead of dealing with the problem of identifying the lone wolves from a crowd of completely benign conservative citizens, the report offers a crude, and in some ways incorrect, summation of views that can be attributed loosely to extremists and strongly to non-violent conservatives and libertarians.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Links to support your position?
The_Gadfly (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 1:33PM EST (link)This post smells like moby, so I checked your other posts. They smell like moby too. While not a libertarian myself, I am familiar with some of their arguments. They would never discuss something on a left-right axis, as it defies a central tennat of their belief system.
Gadfly...this guy is total moby...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 1:40PM EST (link)Quoting Steve Schmidt about gay marriage….was a dead give away.
He is also a hit and run specialist…he will post and post until he gets called out then you won’t see him for a week or so and all of the sudden he is back and acts like no one remembers his posting history.
People like that piss me off…they think they are clever and we are clueless…another sign of not being here in good faith.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
maybe i don't post often..
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 2:41PM EST (link)because I am busy studying for exams, working and trying to get sleep in between.
or maybe it is because you are trying to fly under the radar...like all the other moby trolls like you...nt
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 2:49PM EST (link)conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
yea..
nickinvirginia Tuesday, April 21st at 3:00PM EST (link)Its all a grand conspiracy, and only what you think is justified.
you seem to have ample time when the discussion is gay marriage or moral equivalence between the right and Nazi's...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 3:03PM EST (link)maybe you should branch out a bit and let us know more about you instead of consistently opposing what this site stands for and drawing moral equivalences between “right wingers” and nazis.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
nick in virginia you should be attacked for this post!
Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 7:59PM EST (link)for one thing, you are a troll. I have no power here, but i have a 90% + record of predicting bannings when I call someone a troll. You are spouting the left-wing nutroot meme. Do you think we don’t have people in that cesspool? Hell, we have people well regarded in that cesspool for operational reason ha ha ha.
Left Wing Meme1: Bush started this; so what? He did not create the profile of “right-wing extremists” Napolitano and the Socialists did that. Left Wing Meme2: There was a report on lefty extremists; well whoop dee do? That report came in with no fanfare, the right wing report came out on Tea Party Day and the same report made waves from the “fusion center” out of MO.
Let me tell you something. Obama and Napolitano are Statists and Socialists. They think anyone not on board with their perverted ideology is an extremist. When Bush was president we focused on Islamic Extremists. Now all of a sudden Islamic terrorists are not terrorists and Americans that have strong beliefs are! That is all Obama, all the time! Get it? I would like you to link the last time Bush mentioned left wing extremists in America as a threat. I am waiting?
Molon Labe!
And the problem as I see it, some love to feed the trols for the sake of a "good debate"
Scope (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 8:14PM EST (link)Aaron, you are the most guilty! Why do you insist on giving them a voice?
then ban him Scope
Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 8:18PM EST (link)lol.
Molon Labe!
Why do you insist on not challenging people who regard you as the enemy Scope...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 8:57PM EST (link)Should he have spoken badly about Sarah Palin first.
Don’t talk about things you don’t know.
These aren’t people who will just go away if you ignore them.
These are people who need to be confronted an taken to task for their lies.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Aaron, this kid is a one trick pony...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 9:29PM EST (link)using the same old citations of a few court cases that somehow prove he is right, and then demands that we go and find him court cases that say otherwise. I do not think we need to cite court cases because the obvious court outcomes in the past have been wildly in denial of this so called “right” of gay marriage. Plus, judicial override of the people will only serve to swing the pendulum hard right, and I am sure that most certainly is not what he wants.
Our definition of marriage is the baseline thought, the burden of proof lies with him. Anyway, he seems to not understand that what he wants is to move the reference line and if denied it, that is somehow against some sort of right…. Fruitless debate with tired research. You could go to CATO or Heritage and find enough cases against as there are for, and you do not have to go to Canada to find them. Sheesh I have better things to do.
Lastly, he will never stop until he has found all of the information he can on the internet that he can somehow use to support his case. What is the point, give him the rope and he will hang himself with it.
That's the problem dontreadonme...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 10:41PM EST (link)He is claiming he is a libertarian….as for scope….well maybe he forgot how I defended him when people were calling his a Palinbot.
I am not feeding the trolls for good debate…and scope is a dumbass for suggesting that. I am refuting his leftist crap.
I am done playing nice with these folk.
I wish that they didn’t come on our site and sully it the way they do…but as long as they are I will be here to expose them and call out their BS.
If Scope wants to be an apologist for that type of crap that is his fault not mine.
My advice to scope is to write a diary once in a while supporting Republican or conservative positions since in his glorious 7 months here he never has.
Until then he can STFU about my style and he can definitely take his opinion of what I am the most guilty of and shove it right up his 4th point of contact.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
I was going to join in on the fun...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 10:46PM EST (link)I refuted every one of his points, basically the guy fails to understand that whole little point of reference, i.e. definition of marriage is the reference. He seems to fail in his understanding that the overwhelming majority of states have statutes, laws or constitutional amendments protecting marriage as between a man and woman, but I guess that doesn’t matter because a judge said so, WTFO.
Anyway, I had written quite the rant three times as long as his longest and I said, Why waste my time? He is using judges in Canada to defend his case, and he is 26 and still wet behind the ears. That nick cat just a one trick pony apparently. He loves to take every subject and somehow turn it into gay unions. Again, WTFO, whats this dudes cause?
His cause is to paint us as the hatemongers...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 10:53PM EST (link)His cause is the destruction of the moral fabric of our nation.
His cause is to subvert people like scope who is susceptible to his callings.
Just another leftist…this is what they do.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
I guess he thinks us '76ers...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Tuesday, April 21st at 11:04PM EST (link)haven’t been around long enough to know any better. What strikes me as naive is the want to call out judges as a way to dictate cultural fabric. It is a shame but if the judges said no and the voters said yes he would be complaining about the judges. What is the point, he wants it to be so and so shall he find a way to bolster his case. Unfortunately, more and more kids are falling for this same logic, all part of the “diveristy” indoctrination.