Establishment Republicans Don’t Get It


While numerous hurdles remain to be cleared by House Democrats for the current healthcare bill to become law – the postgame analysis for the Senate has begun and is important.

Erick made a few simple but important points a little earlier, here, and below. In short, Senate Republicans thought they could win this on message – and they failed. Hard to argue, really.

But what the establishment folks would have you believe is that Senate Republicans did everything they could do – given that there are 60 Senate Democrats. One DC insider who fancies himself a real Hill expert has taken it upon himself to challenge Erick (here, and here).

His first comment is the most telling – indicating how entrenched the Republican establishment is both on and off the Hill. I respond line by line – with his comments in italics. I don’t do this to be petty. This is important… because those of us who recognize the ascendancy of conservatism and the waning hours of the establishment have to point it out, as painful as it may be, at every turn so that we can properly relegate those who persist in promoting the status quo – that is, the same old tired, failed strategies – to the corner and just blow past them.

To Erick, this self-declared Senate expert wrote (in part):

Erick, you simply have not the first foggy clue about Senate procedure, rules, or an effective strategy. You run this blog to generate hits, and spitting nails generates hits. I get that.

I do have a pretty serious clue about Senate procedure – having worked with the incompetent fools in the Senate for too many years of my life – and it’s slightly more than “foggy.” As for “strategy,” Capitol Hill Republicans wouldn’t know a coherent strategy if Patton himself plotted it out for them line by line. And this blog exists for a number of reasons, not the least of which is often to do the job Senate Republicans won’t do…

However, you should at least have your facts straight.

1) Whether the vote is held at 0800 Thursday or later in the evening DOES NOT MATTER except symbolically to simpletons that think that a meteor might hit Reid’s apartment in those seven hours. He has the votes. He bought them. After the filibuster is broken, that final passage vote amounts to a fart in a tornado. It’s simply delaying the inevitable.

Your belief that “IT DOES NOT MATTER” (your emphasis, not mine) is wrapped up in the failed Republican strategy to date. Of course it matters. A Christmas Eve vote late into the evening – or even, if really creative minds (sorry, forgot for a moment I was talking about Capitol Hill Republicans) were to engage every weapon in the arsenal, a vote pushed somehow into Christmas morning, would, by definition captivate a larger percentage of the American public than a fairly useless vote at 8AM so that Senators can “get home” for Christmas… oh, by the way, why don’t those same Senate Republicans ask the soldiers around the world how they feel about “getting home” for Christmas.

2) The minority can’t force a vote on JACK. They can offer a motion to table, which would promptly be defeated on a simple majority. They can do this into perpetuity, but it’s pointless.

The minority can, in fact, force a number of votes. I am not going to outline them here for various reasons. Furthermore, had the Senate Republican leadership employed anything even resembling a coherent strategy prior to this point, our ability to delay this vote would have been greater.

3) I’m convinced that even if the entire GOP Senate caucus showed up in the Senate chamber on Thursday morning with machine guns and held the Dems hostage, it wouldn’t be enough for you.

While this is may be an interesting approach, what actions taken by Capitol Hill Republicans thus far would give you any indication that they would have the nerve to do this sort of thing?

4) Your vitriol directed at McConnell is entirely misplaced in re the elections. He is not the chair of the NRSC. He also doesn’t make the decisions about who will be funded.

Yeah, as an “expert” on Capitol Hill operations, you really would try to pass off the notion that the Senate Republican Leader (and former NRSC Chair, himself) does not provide significant input to the NRSC? This is the kind of “nuts and bolts” argument that ignores the fact leadership matters. You don’t hide behind roles and responsibilities if you lead – you are the Republican leader. Lead.

5) Suffice it to say that your irresponsible fear-mongering about the “un-repealable” provision is just that. The parliamentarian ruled that it didn’t require a supermajority. Any serious observer would conclude that if that’s the case, it also won’t require a supermajority to dispense with the provisions you cited.

The parliamentarian ruled that it was a procedure change, not a rule change… but even if I accept your point to be true – who cares? For you to believe this to be “fear-mongering” shows the extent to which you and fellow establishment Republicans did not take this fight as seriously as is dictated by the damage this bill will inflict on America… because what difference does it make to you whether Erick made it up out of thin air (though he did not)? The fact is a rules change is buried in the bill that attempts to short-circuit the traditional Senate process…

I conclude, Erick, by telling you as someone with intimate knowledge of what’s going on, either you are completely bereft of a clue about how the Senate operates and what options were available to the GOP, or, you’re simply generating traffic.

I tell you, as someone with intimate knowledge of how the Senate operates, that you should be careful not to say things that are completely false. In your follow-up comment to Erick, you say that “Constitutional Points of Order are non-debatable.” That is not true. They may be able to be tabled, but they are debatable (see Riddick’s page 686).

In the end, you establishment folks (however conservative you claim to be) are old news, and have proven that to be the case yet again. It is no longer time for excuses – it is time for winning.

We will win our country back by cleaning DC out and taking over the Republican Party from the bottom up… Establishmentarians beware.


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39 Comments Leave a comment

Well....

makemyday (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 9:35AM EDT (link)

the gauntlet has been dropped. Looks like we are in it for the long term now with or without em’

When all else fails…….. Shoot!

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)

“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777

 

Word

ashen Wednesday, December 23rd at 9:43AM EDT (link)

UP!

 

McConnell and the fat cat Republican establishment

partyof1 Wednesday, December 23rd at 9:44AM EDT (link)

Want Obamacare to pass so they can have a stick to beat Dems with in 2010 and 2012. We should send their ilk home along with the pro cap-and-tax Republicans.

I’m not lashing out wildly here; I’m not ignoring the conservative contributions that these men and women have made; but these two issues are so critical, so non-negotiable that no flesh should be spared (politically) to put a halt to them. Purge. Purge. Purge.

 

It's sort of like what I tell global warming activists

Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 9:46AM EDT (link)

I’ll believe it is a crisis when the people who are telling me it’s a crisis start acting like it’s a crisis.

In the case of the establishment GOP, I’ll believe it’s a fight when the people who are in the fight actually start fighting.

 

Well done Hogan. nt

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 9:58AM EDT (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

Thank you, hogan!

michigan Wednesday, December 23rd at 10:07AM EDT (link)

It’s refreshing to read from someone with experience counter the establishment mindset. You are absolutely right in us winning our country back. If you can, please write more about the D.C. disconnect culture. To us outside of it, they seem so isolated and closed minded to anything other than what THEY think. Is it arrogance or just a big club of professional public handlers? Thanks again for going toe to toe.

 

That was really interesting

irishgirl Wednesday, December 23rd at 10:21AM EDT (link)

and informative. Thanks for the line-by-line. I’m sure there’s more like me who truly do not have a clue how the whole thing works. Knowledge is power.

 

Postage pre-paid...

harlan Wednesday, December 23rd at 10:40AM EDT (link)

Each and every request for donations from the RNC is returned in the postage pre-paid envelope with NO money, and a letter outlining my demands.

(Take notice that I said “demands” and not “requests”. )

Foremost among them, is NO MORE RINOs.

 

That arguement shows the laziness and worn out nature of our Leadership

AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 10:44AM EDT (link)

But what the establishment folks would have you believe is that Senate Republicans did everything they could do – given that there are 60 Senate Democrats.

It’s akin to the half assed way Cole and Ensign approached the 2008 elections…they started out saying the cause was lost and we couldn’t do anything to win and they never did a thing to inspire the troops or fight to minimize the damage they told us was coming…they sat back on their lazy behinds and didn’t do a thing which put us where we are no allowing them to continue to lay back on their lazy asses telling us there isn’t anything they can do because there aren’t enough of them!

MarkTwain 3

 

They're the Rule Makers, though

jimmuy8 (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 10:47AM EDT (link)

That’s the big problem: Bums like this guy infect the GOP top to bottom, vicious little parasites embedded in the structure solely for the purpose of fattening their own selves. This, to them, is a baseball game with no inning limit. They are NOT playing to win, merely: They wobble forth and blindly hope to stumble through yet another inning with some vague notion that this same team and the very same tactics will produce runs next inning. So, get out there and root, root, root for the home team and when they fail yet again it’s merely a shame.

But, it’s not just that they are miserable failures, it’s that they want us to play by the same rules that make them miserable failures. These are the guys who set the rules that let Iowa and New Hampshire choose our nominee–two states neither representative of the party nor the nation.
They are the ones who determine where the money is spent.

We will continue to fail to set conservative policy so long as we allow those associated with the rampant failures of the GOP over the last 6 years to remain within the party.

 

Cutting to the heart of the matter

RedBeard Wednesday, December 23rd at 10:48AM EDT (link)

The problem with Establishment Republicans is that there is an “establishment” in place at all. Professional politicians and their career staffers, flacks, and hangers-on are not what the Founders had in mind.

Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.

 

GOP as minority

snowday Wednesday, December 23rd at 10:49AM EDT (link)

I think the establishment GOP is very comfortable in the minority. No need to come up with ideas. No need for leadership. All they need to do is make some half-hearted complaints and “reach across the aisle” and adjourn early for Christmas.

snowday- I had asked before

Scope (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 11:07AM EDT (link)

what your purpose is in posting here at Redstate. You have posted some hit and run comments, and, it seems that you are trolling? If not let us know if you are a Republican, and support the policies of Redstate in supporting Conservatives/Republicans. What you have had to say has added nothing to the discussions going on here.

He/She is running an evil trick

Richard Mullins (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 11:16AM EDT (link)

That get to kill ourselves from within. We need not heed that suggestion, otherwise things will get worse.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

 
 
 

School time - nice work, hogan

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 11:07AM EDT (link)

I’m tired to death of the establishment Repubs. And to hear them, it’s never their fault, it’s somebody else’s fault – usually those pesky movement conservatives that can ‘never win elections’.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

 

the minority can force a vote?

martellus (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:03PM EDT (link)

Where in the Senate rules does it say that? The minority can do nothing unless the majority gives its approval in regards to votes?

Where does it say that I am curious and wish to see it?

This back and forth is starting to look silly and very counterproductive. Too many PC warriors demanding things and making accusations that are destructive all around.

Need to offer some definitions before the silly season gets underway and out of hand.

First of all what is a conservative?

Are conservatives for gay rights? Freedom of choice? Death penalty?

Secondly how many of your guys have run for office? How many have actually stuck their face and name along with their families and friends out there and took on another person man to man?

How many? How many have actually managed campaigns and fought it out? 17 to 20 hour days for months on end. fighting the opposition, the media, the partisan groups and then having to hear the caterwalling of people whose hearts are in the right place but their brains are out to lunch.

Understand this when the GOP was getting its head handed to it the last two cycles Mitch McConnell won re-election. Some of these people won against all odds.

Name me one person on this blog who can lay claim to that? Remember when McConnell won election the first time Kentucky was a solid blue State. He was championing conservative causes and working hard for Presidents Reagan, Bush 41 and 43 while a lot of the so called experts in here were still trying to figure out how to plug in their PCs.

Now quote me the Senate rule that says the minority can force a vote.

The Hammer

You worrying Martellus? Trolling again...

penguin2 (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:13PM EDT (link)

Are you worrying our side might stop this monstrosity after all? There are many experts on this site who can probably answer you, shortly. Or try reading the number of FP posted by Erick Erickson, Dan Perrin and others all addressing the legislative questions. You see there are experts here who know what they are talking about. Try this link to begin with.

http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2009/12/20/the-extraordinary-measures-needed-to-kill-the-bill/

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

quote the rule...

martellus (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:23PM EDT (link)

If you can’t then so be it. For now just quote the rule. Stop it before you brag about it. So far all of the predictions about stopping it have been premature at best.

Talk is cheap and that is all I ever hear from you penguin is talk.

Now quote the rule.

The Hammer

no just a word of advice

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:31PM EDT (link)

you’re wearing out your welcome here real fast, Sparky. Unlike you, hogan has actually worked as a senior staffer in the Senate and knows the Senate rules. That aside, one more insult directed at the people here as a group or at an individual gets you back to spending more of your semi-retired time commenting on football games in local newspapers.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 

Martellus, sounds like you are putting out fighting words.

penguin2 (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:39PM EDT (link)

But I don’t have to worry about that, because I am quite good at thoughtful and reasonable discussion. The experts here will answer your question; though your attitude does seem kind of ugly when you come to RedState.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 
 

Tell me again about the Cook County, VA race, martellus

Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:17PM EDT (link)

Tell us all about the campaigns you have managed, tell us about the races you have entered, tell us specifically what you have done.

Tell us, because your little chickenhawk arguments are wearing thin. I need some back-up to take you seriously.

We’re waiting.

Let me know...

martellus (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:26PM EDT (link)

Savage let me know when the sun rises on a day that I have to answer to you.

You have worn thin Savage (in name only) 5 years you have been here spouting off and you have to show for it are some of the biggest losses that the GOP and conservatives have ever suffered.

Show me where you have done anything beyond talk. Get a life little boy you need one.

The Hammer

Still waiting, son

Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:31PM EDT (link)

My family has had roots in Virginia since the 1600′s. You are the one making the chickenhawk argument, and I am the one calling you out. If you are anyone, I know you.

Otherwise, you are just some guy handing out pamphlets in a podunk precinct in Craig County and talking tough.

Still waiting.

 

Oh, martellus, you walking contradiction, you.

janis (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:34PM EDT (link)

You present yourself as a warrior who’s done his time in the trenches, able to manage campaigns with the best of them. And yet you don’t appear to be in charge of anyone’s campaign chest at this point, nor do you seem to do anything to fight except show up here and sound like a cranky old bastage.

So why don’t you regale us all with your actual name and accomplishments in the R party so we’ll know you are something other than a blowhard. By the way, people of accomplishment don’t need to spend their time in someone else’s house, shouting rudel”Look at me, look at me!” That’s pretty much what you’ve done at RS.

house?

martellus (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:20PM EDT (link)

If this is a house it is made of glass and you are throwing stones.

The Hammer

Wow, I may never recover from that devastating blow!

janis (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:30PM EDT (link)

Did you stick your thumbs in your ears and waggle your fingers at me after you hit “Post Comment”?

And wipe that pudding off your chin, bub, it’s not an attractive look for you.

 
 
 
 

Still waiting, martellus

Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:28PM EDT (link)

Because if you are anyone who is anyone in Virginia politics since the late ’60′s, I will know you.

You need to start presenting some bonafides, because all we ever hear from you is a lot of lip and internet tough guy talk.

Again, still waiting.

Jack, remember everyone can be a Superhero on the net

Danielle Davis (ocleverone) (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:53PM EDT (link)

or a Victoria Secret model.

I think with this guy’s claims, divide by 15, and you might be closer to the truth.

To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher

 
 
 

Good primer on Senate rules: anyone know of one on the 'net?

ColdWarrior (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:47PM EDT (link)

Several of us conservative PCs here in AZ are going to try to get a sit down meeting with Kyl and McCain over the holidays. We want them to explain their failure to invoke every possible delaying tactic under the Senate rules to slow down the passage of this unconstitutional bill.

Can anyone point me to a good primer on the Senate rules?

Thank you.
ColdWarrior

In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?

Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and Unified Patriots.

 

Pugnacious, ain't ya?

RedBeard Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:08PM EDT (link)

But it’s still not clear to me what principles you’re fighting for.

Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.

 
 

Hogan

phxg (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 12:51PM EDT (link)

From your first post here it was apparent you are on our side and entrenched in the DC world, yet unaffected by the wishy washy around you.

Bravo good sir. Bravo.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. –Aristotle

 

Amazing...just amazing...

martellus (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:29PM EDT (link)

Not one of the comments has even attempted to answer the ;questions that I posed. It has been the immature name calling of losers and PC warriors.

I ask to be shown the rule and you people have acted like I shot your daddy. Until you can show the maturity of being able to answer those who would question you then you are condemed to be losers.

Family has been in Virginia since the 1600s. (rolling eyes). That is one for the ages. Let me guess they fought with the British.

All of you people post your real names, addresses, and telephone numbers then come and ask me for who I am. People hiding behind screen IDs.

Do you people read your hatred before you post it? Do you see the immaturity and the silliness of yourselves?

If you are the creme de la creme of the conservatives then there is no conservative movement. It is just a bunch of silly children play acting at benig responsble adults.

Been in Virginia since 1600 I am still laughing at that one. That was the best one yet. Still no one addresses the points that I raised or answered the questions that I posed.

Why are you so afraid? What are the fears that only allow you to attack and attack so feebly.

J

The Hammer

oh, well

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:33PM EDT (link)

….

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

And he seems like such a nice guy (nt)

RedBeard Wednesday, December 23rd at 2:28PM EDT (link)

Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.

 
 

Here is the point, martellus

Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:42PM EDT (link)

You come here all full of bluster about how you have eiher run for office or managed campaigns at the highest level (I still haven’t figured out which you lay claim to), and basically said if the people who posted here haven’t, they should shut up. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.

In answer to your chickenhawk argument – which is particularly galling – I said that I don’t believe you. I said that if you were anyone in Virginia politics, I would know who you are. I have had family run for office and have helped with their campaigns, as well as a few other campaigns in the 6th District of Virginia. As far as my family being in Virginia since the 1600′s, I would be happy to send the geneology to a site administrator for their verification. Hell of a project for my 6th graders, by the way. You should try it sometime.

You haven’t given us one reason to believe that you have paid dues or are anyone whose phone call would be returned by anyone involved in Virginia politics. I am happy to be corrected, but until you deal with questions about the credentials you have included in every single one of your posts, I will continue to wonder why you believe you ought to be taken seriously.

And by the way

Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:43PM EDT (link)

They fought AGAINST the British.

He's a ghost, Jack Savage. Merry Christmas! nt

janis (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:47PM EDT (link)

It is a shame

Jack_Savage (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 1:50PM EDT (link)

I would have liked to have had a discussion about local politics in his area and compare notes, but I just couldn’t get past the badge flashing.

If he is from where I think he is from, he would know my family and I bet I would know his. Seriously.

Somehow, Jack, I'm getting a mental picture

janis (Diary) Wednesday, December 23rd at 2:02PM EDT (link)

of Ernest T. Bass throwing a rock through your window at some point in the near future. So let’s hope you’re wrong!