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Idea for the Editors: Approving first diaries before posting them

By: icbm (Diary)  |  March 27th, 2009 at 10:13 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

As RedState grows more popular, more users are posting diaries without following the rules. (Hey! Follow the rules, will ya, goshdarnit!) The diaries are too short, or don’t contain analysis, or are weak attempts to imitate the hillion jillion RonBot conspiracy-theorist “it’s those dang Jooooooooz!” diaries posted here during the Republican primaries.

Naturally, we’re all annoyed to see good diaries get pushed down and ignored. It’s also annoying just to sort through more chaff to get to the wheat. And if it’s harder to find the good diaries, it’s harder for RedState to promote the best ideas of its readers.

So how about the Editors’ approving a user’s first diary before allowing it to be posted on the site?

I know this constitutes extra effort for the Editors, and, for all I know (Neil?), it’s too difficult to change the way the website works in order to make this happen.

But it sure would be nice.

Thanks for the consideration.

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  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Let’s just delete bad diaries and ban bad posters.

    If we need to make it easier for you guys to *inform* us of bad diaries, I’m all in favor of that, though.

    But I think we can use the blamstick to solve the problem of bad diarists just fine.

    • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

      Since “Open Threads” are (more or less supposed to) appear on a Daily basis – Make it a Rule for the creators of the Open Thread Diaries to put the links to the Help Diaries, threads, links, etc… in each and every one of those Open Thread posts (under a Read More prompt is certainly fine, no need for them to be up top of the fun things on the Open Thread to start it off)!?!?!? This way it is visible on a Daily (or semi-daily) basis every time a person opens the Open Thread Diary! Simple!

      For those who haven’t seen it yet:

      RS-Help: suggested Newbie/Visitors Reading (all, top to bottom, including every comment contained in each)….

      [RS Writers Tips (bs)] — [Unofficial FAQ v3 (bs)]

      [Welcome Newcomers & Tips/Etiquette (adam c)]

      [Don't be Cliche (Caleb)] — [RS:Help (06)]

      [NETiquette (jlenard)] — [RS:Post Rules (06)]

      [RS:About] — [CRTLA/acronyms]

    • icbm

      under that system.

      (I do appreciate your reading my idea, though, and considering it.)

    • icbm

      to have new users check a box showing that they’ve read the rules of the site and the rules of diaries? That would be easier and might solve some of the problem.

      Or, as I suggest above, three or four bulletpoints (just one line each) could appear at the top of the Diary Entry page as a reminder.

      A lot of new users just don’t know basic things like diaries need to be more than 25 words, they should include some analysis (generally speaking), etc.

    • Diogenes314

      “If we need to make it easier for you guys to *inform* us of bad diaries, I

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    It has been so long I don’t remember what is in that… It should include the links to “FIRMLY SUGGESTED READING” for new Users. Though I’m not sure how much of that Email gets read. Is there a click-through to confirm membership screen link? (again, I do not recall) If there is then that too would be an obvious place to put links to REQUIRED READING!

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    with apologies to ICBM as this is somewhat an aside…. I wish some basic Biography info was required at sign-up – so we have a clue what part of the country a person is from, gender (for courteous addressing he/she, her/him, etc), and the like….

    • Diogenes314

      Welcome to the internet. You are what you post.

      Publius would concur.

      • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

        We understand the Shame of Liberals not wanting to admit who/what they are or that some people may not be proud of the locale/State in which you live, etc…. ;-)

        It’s not a real biggie, it just gives us some perspective of how/where ones thoughts come from, who/how they have been influenced by their background/environment, etc…

        Everyone is entitled to Opinion, but big difference between Opinion and Informed Opinion – we all Live and Learn!

        Not saying you are one of these, just sayin’ in general – The Liar, Troll, Moby, inexperienced and/or lacking any credential to how they shape their opinions, youthfully immature (not age perse’), does eventually get exposed…. Again, it just helps in forming respectful dialogue responses with a frame of reference.Big difference between the (Liberal/Conservative) influences of an 18-year-old from NY or OK… I just have more respect for someone that doesn’t feel the need to hide!

        • Diogenes314

          These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.”

          -Some anonymous dude. 1776

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            I think I have it now… A grand delusion of self-value and concern for your “safety” by equating yourself as needing to be invisible for fear of retribution from Tyranny…. :eyes-roll:

            Okay masked marvel… Not like anyone is expecting you to give away the exact location of your “Batty Cave” or anything lol

            Time will tell more… I certainly give you “credit” for being honest and up-front with your sig claim to be “Liberal” – though, of course, I have pause over your notion as being a “L” Liberal rather than “l” liberal (as you say friends don’t let friends vote Democrat, yet a Liberal) many Conservatives are (that “l” liberal – we have Zero concern for what peeps do as long as they don’t impose it on others or harm anyone while doing it)… Take care… C ya ’round.

          • Diogenes314

            But the principle still stands. When Madison, Hamilton and Jay put out the documents we refer to as the Federalist Papers, Publius wasn’t concerned about his saftey. But Publius thought (their) ideas would stand on their own, without needing a byline. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this but personally, I don’t care if your name is Jones or Chomskey.

            Like I said, It’s the internet.

            You Are What You Post.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            No, I understand the point, there is some merit to it but I still say it is a big difference over just having some basic info about a person now with all the moronic Trolls and/or countless others morons about pretending to everything they are not, I have said myself often that the merits of what is said should be examined based upon itself – there is at times people biasing (and sometimes in a silly manner backtracking their own principles) to oppose or support something just because of the (D) or (R) following the presenter (though, generally anything coming from a D is usually Progressive non-sense I will oppose and the other times when a D says one thing we pretty much know they don’t mean [read: LIES] based on their background and past record – hence, having to KNOW something about the person in order to know whether they can be trusted) *OR* in case of RS some, for whatever reason, seem to hold a grudge against some other User(s) and they get clouded by Emotion in the discussion…. well, you know…. it’s all Social Psychology….. So whether you share any info or not people will draw some inferences, assumptions, etc, though I try to not be one of those folks – but as I also say, we’re all Human and we’re entitled to have a bad day or two.

            Anyway… Take Care “Ronnie James” …. C ya about the place….

            [exists singing] Who are you?…. who… who…….. who… who…. ;-) lol

      • $peciallist

        go ahead….make my day

    • Diogenes314

      Welcome to the internet. You are what you post.

      Publius would concur.

      • redneck_hippie

        It’s what exists when disclosing our name, background, heritage, geographical location, age, sex, religion, past history, econonmic status and even political party affiliation are unecessary in order to discern our passion for freedom, truth and liberty.

        Our credibility is based upon tenure at RS and the feisty courage to soldier on.

        Wisdom and communication skills can’t be faked. A resume can.

        • redneck_hippie

          cannot be faked.

          OOPS, Should read Communication skills cannot be faked For Long. See TOTUS, Lol.

  • $peciallist

    people will be responsible for what they post…or they will be reminded…and if they don’t listen, then they get what they get

    if you come home from work and your pissed at Barry, you can bet your post is a COMMENT..

    If you have been working on something for more than 2 hours, it’s a Diary…get it?…and make it more than 2 paragraphs

    • Mike gamecock DeVine

      prior restraint

      good one ‘llist

      • $peciallist

        My Angels are crazy good…..Angels/Braves WS!

        • Mike gamecock DeVine

          The Braves have G Anderson!

          Braves are tied for first and are undefeated, as we speak.

          • AKSteveB

            agree that the Designated Hitter rule is an abomination before nature and nature’s God.

          • Mike gamecock DeVine

            concentrates the mind, much as the desire for a second sale has a moral effect on the seller under capitalism!

      • icbm

        as you know from the english common law tradition

        but i don’t think this qualifies as prior restraint since it is making sure that people comply with procedures, not substance (with the exception of the looney tune conspiracy theorist diaries – and i’m happy to leave them out of my proposal in order to make my point consistent)

    • $peciallist

      np

  • George Claghorn

    How about putting the rules above the form on the diary posting page? In an eye-catching box, say, light yellow background? With a big header that says, “DIARY POSTING RULES.”

    And maybe only show it for a user’s first three or so diaries.

    • icbm

      i imagine it could be implemented within a few minutes

      thanks

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    Disagree… strongly.

    We may not always like… even are offended by sometimes… the diaries posted but if we don’t know what people think or who are the trolls posing as a right wing conspiracy nut how will we be able to respond to them?

    Sometimes, the best thing to do is be reasonable in the face of the unreasoning. You never know when something you might say will strike a chord and have somebody stick around to learn that conservatives aren’t the big bad boogey monsters they are portrayed to be.

    Yes, I know they push some really good diaries down the list but, while we have a lot of popular bloggers here, this isn’t (or shouldn’t be) a popularity contest.

    People have other ways of finding the popular bloggers here anyway. Just go to their profiles and you get a list of their diaries entries.

  • icbm

    this is just about making sure that the diary plays by the rules, as posted on RedState. and it would apply only to the first diary.

    And no one’s talking about a popularity contest. On the contrary, it is because we have so many useless diaries that Redstaters end up ignoring the ones by users they don’t know so well and just read and recommend the ones by the well known users.

  • $peciallist
  • djemi

    don’t the Editors already have the power to remove diaries?
    As a newbee I would say that this is a bad idea as it will turn Redstate into an elitist site, us common folk need to be able to voice our views.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    where they went wrong than have them not attempt to reach out. Sorry, but I just can’t agree with this.

  • loewenbrau

    not very computer literate—I am not sure I would qualify for anymore diaries. Am grateful for a site to communicate with like’-minded” fellow citizens. Thought this site was for us “redstates folks”, to vent our grievances, give information/opinions, read other’s information/opinion and know we are not alone.

  • icbm

    that’s the trouble

    all the diaries that are two-sentences and so on are clogging things up. so people are just reading the diaries of the users they know. look at who gets recommended most of the time. i’m not saying they don’t deserve it. i am saying that others are getting overlooked – and that’s partly because diaries are getting pushed down too fast by diaries that don’t meet guidelines.

  • icbm

    i, however, am just annoyed that they can’t read the rules and figure out how things are done first.

    the idea is not to block them from posting diaries. it is to instruct them so they don’t do it wrong by not following the set procedures.

  • icbm

    n/t

  • icbm

    for their FIRST diaries.

    That’s it.

    Doing this after the fact doesn’t prevent the problem, which is that a lot of diaries that do not follow RedState rules are interfering with other diaries that do follow the rules.

    If a diary follows the rules – again, rules posted by RedState and already in existence – it would be allowed to be posted.

    Second, this would apply only to the FIRST diary.

    So the burden is not great. If you are a RedStater who wants to post diaries, you’re going to get to post all the diaries you want. It’s just that your first one, and that one only, will have to meet existing RedState rules.

    (Fly-by-night diary writers, who stop by just once, might have more trouble since they don’t ever plan on coming back.)

    The rules are not hard to meet. They set bare minimums. And if someone’s first diary doesn’t meet them, all the person has to do is change it so it does meet the minimums.

    And after that no approval would be necessary.

  • icbm

    on following the guidelines.

    It would be more helpful if new users could be instructed about following guidelines before posting their first diaries.

  • djemi

    I get that.

    Not all of us are good prosse writer and in my case spelling is a problem. I want to improve at diary writing so any advice you can give would be appresiated. This is my latest attempt

    http://www.redstate.com/djemi/2009/03/27/hannan-on-hannity/

    Thanks

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    but I digress…. We sometimes have 3-5 FP Diaries on the same subject-matter – which, again, people learn what they expect to be acceptable by that – rather than Long-Comments added to existing Diaries on the Topic. This also adds to things rolling off the Members-Diaries-List as well as the FP so fast. This (actually, all of this, is more-so a problem immediately around Election dates – which is why it needs to be sorted out during the “slower” times) is why I had maintained a some Recommended reading of items already scrolled off Memb-Diary-List, FP, and RedHot that I kept updating for awhile. On that Diary I started with the same basic lament and concerns being covered here, then pointed out some things of “note-worthiness” IMO that went off the Pages fast….

    Our FP’ers sometimes themselves forget that Short Items belong in the RedHot not tying up the FP… but again, they have the Privilege to ignore the Guidelines (though setting an example by doing so).

  • icbm

    I don’t think you should be shy about providing a little more of your own analysis, though. It can be intimidating around here with so many who know so much (I’m not including myself in that group).

    Anyway, my main beef is with diaries like,

    “My heart goes to the Israeli people.” [and that's it]

    and

    “Hey, check out this new website” [and nothing more]

    and

    “The Joooz are taking all our money!” [although those can be fun to make fun of, actually]

    You get my point, I think

  • Lammo

    Set up a “process” that takes newly registered users to the rules pages and requiring that they check a box inidicating they have read the rules before their account is approved. Some (most) may just check the box without reading, sort of like software licenses, but a least new folks will be alerted to the fact that there are rules.

  • icbm

    I like my idea better (naturally), but it seems to me that your compromise would satisfy everyone, those on Steph’s side and those on my side (if there are any – heh.)

    So what do you think, Editors?

    Nice idea, Lammo. Thanks.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I keep pushing for something similar but there really isn’t any “Official” Rules and/or Posting Guidelines pages (other than what I know of and have found on my own and through the kindness of others, listed below)…. There should be an Official Page!!! That Page should have an Official “RS:HELP” link on FP next to RS:ABOUT, be listed in the “Leave a Comment” box as “COMMENT/DIARY POST RULES/GUIDELINES” for people (right under the “Be respectful, or be banned” note and just above the Post Comment button) to be able to get separate (target=”_blank”) pop-up browser window if needed, and should be “required” (as you are all suggesting here) that it be read by anyone using the “Create New Diary” function *OR* that (even if it is a copy with extra text at top that says PLEASE READ AND ACCEPT TERMS and additional click-through links at the bottom of “ACCEPT” and “CANCEL”) and replace the Create New Diary page entirely with this one and ONLY allow folks to a renamed (hidden) actual Create New Diary function Page after clicking ACCEPT otherwise just returning the User back to FP if CANCEL is clicked. It is just one additional click for regular users each time and provides little argument that someone at least “has a clue” if they need to be “reminded” and referred back to those RULES/GUIDELINES with a WARNING from the Hosts to do better in the Future and that continually ignoring Guidelines (everyone deserves a break for mental lapse on occasion) would result in Site Termination!

    The RS HELP PAGE, could be as little as being just a Page with the following suggested reading (at first) while a better/permanent (one-stop) Page is developed (which would consist of copy of most from below but updated with some current info, incorporate some of the “commentary” of those Diaries to expand on the thoughts (or link to the older Diary as “For More On This Read HERE” or “Additional suggested Reading” links, etc…..

    ——————————————————————————————————

    As for the “HELP FILES” about RS thus far identified:

    RS-Help: suggested Newbie/Visitors Reading (all, top to bottom, including every comment contained in each)….

    [RS Writers Tips (bs)] — [Unofficial FAQ v3 (bs)]

    [Welcome Newcomers & Tips/Etiquette (adam c)]

    [Don't be Cliche (Caleb)] — [RS:Help (06)]

    [NETiquette (jlenard)] — [RS:Post Rules (06)]

    [RS:About] — [CRTLA/acronyms]

  • $peciallist

    http://www.redstate.com/thereyougoagain/2009/03/22/obama-shames-the-85-republicans-who-voted-for-the-aig-bonus-tax/#comment-121

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    People learn BY EXAMPLES they see about the site. We long time users know darn well that “exceptions” are made to the “Guidelines” by many. Let me point the finger at myself here even, in that I had a couple that were “short” and could be deemed lacking by some but I thought/felt I was okay with them as they didn’t “require” much background in order to provide the “forum” (Diary) for debate on the subjects (both Nov. 5 : Who to replace Biden as Senator? and Palin for the Stevens Senate seat? and implications/complications). The question comes when Diaries like these or other Short ones put on the FP (sorry, no sample links but you’ve all seen them and I’m not talking about the Open Thread bait) by those with FP privileges (where most see and learn their RS habits from) – unless the Users are Officially informed of the Guidelines and that there are some that can do those exceptions they learn from those examples and feel it is fine for them to put up a one or two short sentences/paragraphs Diary of a direct thought to provoke response!

    Obviously, the Site Staffers and those they designate have the Privilege of breaking whatever Rule, but I’m just saying that folks need to know the Rules (as are everyone else here) and the Rules need to explicitly state that there are some that CAN/WILL be “allowed” to break them but the “Standard” User/Visitor is NOT!!!

    At the very least, bs’ old Help files need to have an Official HELP link on the FP next to the “ABOUT” link! IMHO

    ————————————————————————————

    to repeat, in the hopes some folks actually finally see these are about this place…

    RS-Help: suggested Newbie/Visitors Reading (all, top to bottom, including every comment contained in each)….

    [RS Writers Tips (bs)] — [Unofficial FAQ v3 (bs)]

    [Welcome Newcomers & Tips/Etiquette (adam c)]

    [Don't be Cliche (Caleb)] — [RS:Help (06)]

    [NETiquette (jlenard)] — [RS:Post Rules (06)]

    [RS:About] — [CRTLA/acronyms]

  • Diogenes314

    As someone who actually read the rules, lurked around this place a while before posting and refrained from posting my first diary for a month after contributing (even after having been told that I was a ‘troll’ for not posting a diary earlier)…

    How about a two-tier process. Two seperate diary lists:

    An I-guess-I-belong-here-because-Ihaven’t-been-banned-yet list followed by the newbie list. Anyone less than 6 months, 1 year, whatever criteria gets to swim in the spam, everyone else gets higher priority.

    Okay, it’s not like any of my other opinions got any traction here…

  • icbm

    And I say that as someone who’s been here (officially) for less than 3 months.

    Not sure we could get many others on board with that idea, though.

  • Praying

    Actually, more. There is the front page. The Member Diaries. The Recommended Member Diaries. I totally see your point but do you REALLY want yet another list? This is my absolute favorite website, and I do try to get through all the blogs each day – sometimes that is a very time consuming task! Most people do read awhile, then maybe make a few comments, then finally get up the courage to do post a diary. And most are really good. When they are not, you all are not shy about politely correcting them. So… pretty much it seems to be working. Do we really need more “gov’ment regulation” of this website? Now that puts it all in perspective, eh?

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I usually try to be polite by adding this comment:

    While I’m not gonna jump on anyone, I’ll just add for the sake of anyone who is looking….

    RS-Help: suggested Newbie/Visitors Reading (all, top to bottom, including every comment contained in each)….

    [RS Writers Tips (bs)] — [Unofficial FAQ v3 (bs)]

    [Welcome Newcomers & Tips/Etiquette (adam c)]

    [Don't be Cliche (Caleb)] — [RS:Help (06)]

    [NETiquette (jlenard)] — [RS:Post Rules (06)]

    [RS:About] — [CRTLA/acronyms]

  • mom2oneson
  • Diogenes314

    If you can’t weed it out, segregate it. And if they survive the attrition, then they get to move up.

    Besides, I’m sure the 1 1/2 people who actually pay attention to my posts will find them.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    lol… Sorry…. I couldn’t resist….

    WARNING: We just funnin’ folks…. relax!

  • icbm

    I didn’t even realize that. I guess I just picked up on the diary rules through reading them and editors’ criticisms of them.

    So yes, I agree that the diary rules should be posted. In fact, they should just automatically appear (just 3 or 4 bullet points) at the top of the Diary Entry screen.

    That might solve a lot of the problem.

  • Diogenes314

    Bite me, CSI.

  • paulincolo

    I can see all sides, but hate to discourage people with their diaries. After all, working through a diary should help you articulate your conservatism better, which we need more of in America.

    So I think there should be a seperate button on each diary (like the recommend button) that says push this down or something similar, but would not give the name of the non-recommender. Once a limit is reached that one goes to the bottom. Alternatively, a grading of say 1 to 5 could be given and readers could just vote. A 5 or 4 might be the same as a recommendation. A 3 would let people know they did well but need work on the writing and the 1′s well…try harder.

    Of course I realize somebody with actual programing ability would have to do this work, which is why my comment is worth 2 cents.

  • JustLeaveMeAlone

    If these were easy to find, they might be used more.

    I’m just sayin’