« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

MEMBER DIARY

I Will Not Let The Elites Decide For Me

It is amazing how far we have come in two short years. The worlds collided on September 11th 2001 and our Country stood up to the enemy, something that Liberalism had removed from the public psyche over a long 4 decades. The public as it usually does became weary of war after 7 years and they most definitely wanted change, they just did not realize what that change meant. If 8 years of war had worked over the public, 2 full years of financial pain certainly has focused their attention. I know that in 2008 Senator John McCain having been chosen as the standard bearer of the Republican Party was a bridge to far after having supported “compassionate” Conservatism for 8 years. Senator McCain though picked a woman who was a TEA Party Patriot before TEA Party Patriotism was cool. Sarah Palin was thrown into a fist fight so brutal the only person who walked away unscathed was Barack Hussein Obama. The Republican elite and the “progressive” Democrat Party mauled her over like a chicken at a pit bull fight. She was attacked and has continued to be attacked as no other person in my 40+ years of knowledge had been. She has risen to the occasion and allowed no one to get away with their insanity and lies. She even took time after a family dinner yesterday to answer her faux pas on North/South Korea, which lo and behold became part of the “news” all day, from every inside the beltway “news” organization No Day Of Rest For A Patriot. For a person who is un-electable this woman sure controls the media on a daily basis. There is more written about Sarah Palin then by the guy who is running this Country.

I found Sarah saying that if she were a distraction she would not run for the Presidency and I thought to myself, that is what the elites want her to do, back down. Sarah Palin is more ready and more vetted to be President then any other candidate who would throw down for 2012. There is nothing that is not known about her, or where she stands on the issues that we care about. I have always maintained that I do not care if she does or doesn’t run, but the truth is, there is no one who personifies what I truly care about more then she does. She is a true RED Conservative. She would do away with the building blocks of Socialism that have crept into Washington and filtered out to the States. I would have no qualms about how she would vote in DC. I would have no fears that she would surround herself with knowledgeable and Conservative people. This I do know, those whose names keep creeping up have thrown away their Conservative stripes when it benefited them. If they cannot stay Conservative when they are Governors or former Speakers (hey Newt how did that Global Warming work for you?) then really would we expect them to be Conservative in the position of the United States Presidency?

It was two short years ago when the bile and hate directed at Sarah Palin began. It was two short years ago when those same disgusting haters said she would be gone by now. They were wrong then and they continue to be wrong now. She has withstood the storm, the sun is beginning to rise on the horizon and I for one welcome a sunshiny day. Is she perfect? no and if you find a perfect person, well watch out because it will be the devil himself. In the end Sarah Palin has the values and the policies that I a TEA Party American can get behind and support. If she chooses to run, I will support her, if she chooses to back another candidate, her word and support of that person will make that person rise to the top for me. I will not allow the Media Wing of the Democrat Party and the old, staid and elite Media Wing of the Republican Party (The Weekly Standard) to push their pablum on me. I will think for myself and for my children and their children. Sarah Palin has shown time and again that she thinks of those same things and for that she is #1 at this moment in time.

We can no longer stand by and allow Big Media, Big Business and Big Government to decide for us, we must decide for ourselves. The war has been long and the wins have been small for Conservatism, there will not be many more chances to make real, definable change in this Country and to allow the same people who created the mess to define our candidate is to lose the battle.

COMMENTS

  • mikerazar

    defense I have read of Sarah Palin and her “qualifications” to be President. Pick an issue: any issue. We know where she stands on it. In advance. Why? Because she has articulated the philosophy of American constitutional democracy in words that shame the egghead professors of law who sneer at her. Back in 1787, ordinary Americans took ownership of that Constitution. In 2009, after generations of that ownership slipping away, Sarah Palin had the temerity to shame WE the People into reclaiming that ownership. What could possibly be a better qualification to lead us?

    • JadedByPolitics

      When I hear she is un-electable I think to myself “really?” she is as ready as any person, she will have experience where others don’t and she will have those with that experience in her cabinet. She will not have elite college professors who have no real world experience calling the shots on 100′s of millions of Americans who have REAL WORLD experience.

    • mspector

      the one prospective candidate on the national stage who owes her candidacy to the Tea Party and to the “rogues” who want an end to the historical game-playing on both sides of the aisle. As such she is uniquely positioned to address our concerns; moreover, we are uniquely positioned to hold her to her words, because her words have been so clear. These are the things that bring her within the circle of trust (“but verify”).

  • Gigi

    for once again putting my thoughts into words.

    • JadedByPolitics

      I have watched the roll of news on Lucianne and the bitterness and hate for Sarah Palin and her family for her espousing the EXACT same things that I myself espouse is pissing me off because Conservatism is the ONLY way to save this Country from euro lite!

  • azaeroprof

    then so are 40% of the American public. Her views are NOT out of the mainstream, and it is irresponsible of us other conservatives to allow the media, Obama, and the true radicals on the left to continue to paint her this way.

    Thanks, Jaded!

    • JadedByPolitics

  • Scope

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-on-both-sides-be-damned-run-sarah/

    It was so much like your diary about telling some of the creeps to get in the back of the bus, and shut up about Palin already, thank you very much but- hey there not many are listening anymore. As the author said, she is so us, and that is what we crave after the long years of elitism. “Any schlub can run”, but, Palin is a particularly bright, engaging and impassioned schlub that still draws huge crowds, and, that drives her detractors crazy.

    • JadedByPolitics

      That is what is needed a regular schlub like you and me. The areas of expertise that schlub doesn’t know is what the Presidential Cabinet is for :) Sarah Palin, would be just fine sitting behind the desk of the office of the Presidency and really she would be 1000X better then current occupant and his Harvard/Yale Cabinet of Czars who have NO REAL WORLD experience!

  • penguin2

    Not only are we combating elitism from the Left, but from our own side as well. That political “Ruling Class” is made up of just as many members from the GOP and the Dems. We saw it with a number of races – our own side sabotaging Tea Party candidates. The Founding Fathers intended for regular citizens to be governing, not for self-indulgent and pompous – we know better than you rubes – how to do this.

    You are so right, and brings to mind again why Sarah receives the support she does, regardless of any perceived deficiencies, she speaks the language of traditional Americans, a language many of us long to hear. The last time we heard such a voice was long ago, Ronald Reagan, as a matter of fact. He loved his country, her greatness, her beauty, her heart….and the elites thought he was a rube too.

    • JadedByPolitics

      the beauty of 2010 America is that the soapbox is the internet and WE The People can instantly chat with each other and the elites on BOTH sides of the divide can no longer push their brand of Americanism without pushback!

    • aesthete

      it is perilous to think that all opposition to Palin as President comes from “RINOs” or the “ruling class”: not only is it insulting to those on our side who are not RINOs or blue-bloods (but who oppose a Palin Presidential run), but it is also an easy answer which attacks the messenger at the expense of critically examining Palin’s strengths and weaknesses. We shouldn’t let Palin’s enemies define her, but we should also avoid reflexively attacking or ignoring all criticism of Palin.

      • penguin2

        I was intending to be a lot more general with the application of my comment, it was not meant to be a focus only on Sarah. Observations and personal experiences from this past election alerted me to an issue that I had been unaware – that is, the elitist from our own side not being happy with some (or even the concept) of our grassroots/citizens candidates. If you take Sarah out of the equation, this applies to another group entirely.

        As for Sarah, I understand the rough road, and that many folks not considered “RINOs” have reservations; it will have to play itself out. Personally, I rather she not run, at least for a couple of election cycles, but it also depends on who else steps up as a potential candidate. I’d give anything to have someone not yet on the horizon, step up and take them all on. :)

        • kestrel

          “I?d give anything to have someone not yet on the horizon, step up and take them all on.”

          Isn’t this, in a sense, another form of not wanting to make a decision? Hoping someone so impressive will appear on the scene that the choice is obvious?

          Who might this person be? I have not discovered him or her, despite trying. For example, I just read CW’s piece on Col. Allen West, and watched nearly 20 minutes of linked video interviews of him. He is terrific, but does anyone seriously think he could run for president in 2012? He is unquestionably a leader, and on a broad level he is good at articulating conservative principles, including on a variety of subjects, but his experience is 20 years in the military and now teaching high school. I’m not making light of any of this, but seriously, West’s preparation for the presidency in 2012 does not even begin to compare to Palin’s. (I am thrilled to see West in Congress, and hope Palin will appoint someone like him as Sec of Defense. I have no doubt Palin will put together an extremely competent cabinet, thereby also elevating many wonderful conservatives to the national stage.)

          I am wondering if Jaded is right that we conservatives may lose our chance to influence the choice of a nominee by waiting too long to back someone. Jaded has really got me thinking.

          • penguin2

            a little bit of time left. You’re right, we can’t be hoping for a dynamic “savior” figure. I think most of my thoughts on this revolve around wishful thinking that none of the 2008 GOP contenders are the in the 2012 race. Saw enough, and had enough, to wish for fresh blood, fresh faces.

            What I am hoping for, is that some lesser known figures, but solid possibilities, start to surface. As far as any of the previous candidates, there is so much baggage attached to them, that I think we could be defeated before we even start. But yes, would be nice to have a “dark horse” win the race.

      • powertothepeople

        I am a strong conservative who may even be labeled as a far right conservative who does not support Palin as President. Lot of people I know, including most in my family and the Conservative republican group we belong to here in SC do not support her for a presidential run. None of us are blue bloods or RINOs by any stretch of the imagination.

        • JSobieski

          the blood bath on this site will make the Delaware primary look like a day on Sesame Street.

          I strongly urge both sides to use very specific and measured statements. Otherwise, things will get out of control and will impede the future utility of RS.

          I for one hope she doesn’t run, since the best shot at getting a strong conservative nominee is for Palin to play king maker. At least that is how I see it.

          I would gladly vote for Palin against any 2008 retread (particularly Romney or Huckabee). However, her record as governor was so short, that its hard to evaluate. During her tenure, she definitely shook things up a bit, but the record of long of results is difficult to formulate.

          My preference would be to go with a two term governor. Someone with a track record on spending that is measurable.

          Spending cuts.
          Number of employees.
          Changes in tax policies.

          There is no doubt that the most significant individual data point during Palin’s tenure as governor was the increase in oil prices. Not saying she did a bad job, but it would seem that the rise in oil prices overshadows her record given how brief her tenure was.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            that she resigned over a flap of her own making and that there was an easy, and personally cheap, way out of her ethics “problems”. A simple request of the AG that her actions complied with her duties as Governor and the ethics war would have, for all intents and purposes, gone away.

            If she can’t withstand the “onslaught” of the fourth tier jerks who went after her in AK, how long will she last in DC when the game is really for keeps.

            She could not – or refused to – work effectively with the heavily Republican legislature.

            Her signature pieces of legislation – ACES and the gas line – are either dead or likely to be completely rewritten by the Republican Governor and Legislature.

            Her tenure as Governor was highlighted by massive spending increases by the state. Pretty much the opposite of the fiscal conservative we need nationally.

            Oh, and then there is Joe Miller.

          • JSobieski

            The challenge with that is that oil revenues are passed through to the citizens of Alaska, and that complicates the apples to apples comparison.

            I would welcome a Palin support specifically listing Palin’s long term impact on Alaska. If ACES and the gas line die, what did she accomplish? Will they in fact die?

            I just want to raise the luminosity while lowering the heat.

            I generally agree with you on the issue of Palin’s record as governor (although if it came down to her vs. Romney and Huckabee, I would be enthusiastically pro-Palin), but I can see you are a bit more willing to inspire some heat.

            i don’t think your characterization of the ethics issue is exactly accurate. While she would not be incurring legal expenses, the investigations would have continued. She would have been hampered in the same way that Clinton was by Monicagate and Reagan was by Iran Contra. That said, how she would have handled that difficulty had she stayed would have been an excellent test of presidential timber.

          • jerry39

            I am also a big Ron Paul fan, despite disagreement with some of his positions. Nonetheless, I am praying that Ron Paul doesn?t run again, and the largest part of my gut right now is also hoping that Palin does not run again.

            I’m one of the idiots who were probably kicked off here in 2008 for suggesting that it was better to support a Ron Paul than a John McCain, because America might need a Barack O to get off the ever leftward spiral we were in. An idea which I think has been vindicated to some degree.

            Nevertheless I was spellbound by the Palin convention speech and of course put up my McCain/Palin sign in the end. None of the attacks on Sarah Palin (other than her ill-prepared exit speech as Governor) have swayed my support for her other than the cold hard reality that the negative media attention has negatively affected sentiment among a great deal of independents that we need on our side for a win in 2012.

            I supported Bachman, Miller, and all the rest of the too conservative to win candidates. For as long as I can remember, I have shunned the RINO notion of winning elections by nominating liberals who theoretically will appeal to “moderates.” Furthermore, I believe everything that Jaded said in support of SP, and agree that if elected, Palin would be the best America has had since Reagan.

            Yet still, I see her better role as King Maker. My reason is this. I watched her unfiltered many times on Fox News. I don?t know if she simply isn?t ready to be a commentator, or what, but I always have a hard time seeing her as presidential after hearing her on Fox. I feel like I am watching Hannity (who I also like, but) who often seems to simply repeats the same 6-10 sound bites for weeks on end and then refreshes his quiver of sound bites, rinse and repeat. Except Palin turned her sound bites into enormous run-on sentences that often made me cringe for her. And the folksiness was often so over the top it was annoying and began to appear almost contrived. I know we may never find another Reagan, and I didn?t expect her to give me the depth and sophistication of a Buckley or Krauthammer in her analysis. But I guess I expected something more than what I got. I feel like we need that person who can not only espouse conservative ideals, but explain them in a way that is un-assailable by liberal manipulation. It scared me quite a bit on her chances of winning a presidential election and it was nothing more than her talking to me that did it.

            But then again, I read this article and part of me does want her to run because of all the positives I that I do agree with, and to get behind her right now. I quess I will need more convincing that she can win to make that leap, and trust me it doesn?t have to come from the establishment on either side of the isle. It only needs to come from Sarah Palin.

    • tex41lb

      There is a need to address the issues brought into our lives by Islam.

      Palin offers real strength for dealing with these issues, as a woman she will have an edge, the Islamist believe women are weak and beneath them, clearly Palin is not.

      I have doubts about her experience, yet in my gut sense a true leader, American style is unfolding before us. I will watch the process further reveal her attributes with great interest.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Socrates

    We need someone who is not afraid to take on Obama. Sarah was doing that when no one else would, in September 2008.

    We need someone who will cut government spending, not just ease back on the planned rate of growth.

    I’m not sure Sarah would govern as I would. For instance, I would immediately divest of GM, and veto any budget that included the Departments of Education, Energy, and Transportation. I’d go through every executive order in effect, countermanding any I didn’t like, such as the one allowing federal employees to unionize.

    But I think she’d do a remarkably good job.

  • cactusjack

    Candidate yet. But on Sarah Palin: 1. “She’s not ready” – compared to whom? Obama? She can formulate cogent thought without a teleprompter, ’nuff said. 2) Why do we even accept the Dems’ subliminal template that goes with that line of attack -they follow the nmodel that any President must be a walking talking encyclopedia of policy, plus telegenic, and ivy-leagued all in one package. The true test of good Presidential leadership is that he or she is a good judge of talent and knows how to pick a good team around him/her for the long haul, replacing when necessary, and that matches the President’s personal span of control. The good guys (Ike, RWR) understood this principle and capitalized upon it to reap great success, and even a bad guy (FDR) understood this. Sarah might surprise us and pick and all star cabinet and hit some home runs. Could it be much worse than the last miserable two yearsWhy do we let the Dems get away with this meme?

    • mikerazar

      It would NOT be a surprise. I don’t know if she can win, but I do know I would be very happy with Sarah in the White House. She gets it.

      • acat

        I would expect that, if Sarah wins in 2012, by 2014 there’d be a wailing and gnashing of teeth among the current Palinophiles … governing is more than throwing rhetorical bombshells, especially during tough economic times.

        That Sarah could out-govern Obama is a given, but setting the bar so low is also playing into a Dem meme – that is, “the boy-wonder is a great president!”.

        I’d happily vote for Sarah in the general, but I have no intention of supporting her in the primary. She’s better suited for the job than Mitt “Mr. Perfect” Romney or Mike “Huckster” Huckabee or Newt “Retread” Gingrich, but that’s not setting the bar much higher than Obama.

        How about comparing Palin to Barbour or Daniels or Pawlenty or Jindal or Herman Cain? She comes up short in comparison to each of the governors in executive experience, and comes up short of Cain in business experience.

        I’m not trying to knock Palin – I’m just saying I don’t think she’s the best qualified POTUS candidate this round… but if she wins the primary, I’ll back her to the hilt in the general.

        Mew

        • rsexteriors

          but if this article is even half true then he is just another typical politician that “talks the talk” but does not “walk the walk”.

          Bobby Jindal’s Downside
          http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/bobby_jindals_downside.html

          A couple excerpts:

          During Jindal’s administration, Louisiana has added over 3,100 new employees, and its budget has increased from $12 billion in 2008 to $24 billion in 2010.

          Louisiana’s last budget was balanced with numerous accounting tricks, one-time funding sources, and massive cuts to health and higher education. Jindal has been criticized for pushing hard decisions down the road to avoid offending anyone in preparation for a presidential bid

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            …and given the choice, I’d rather have a fighter than a triangulator – and Jindal is looking more to be the latter.

            I sure wish we had a deeper bench for 2012.

          • powertothepeople

            would expect, I just think it is not been shown yet. Right now you have three camps with two trying to push their agenda and they are doing so way too early.

            Camp One, RINO camp and their contestants are Huck and Mitt. These are the normal staples of this group and for the start, they will be the front runners. But in the end, they will be relegated to last as they should be.

            Camp two, the Palin lovers. These people mean well, but for some odd reason can not see past their blinders. They will push Palin for the next 20 years and maybe down the road they will be right. But for now, they are like mosquitoes and we just have to deal with them.

            Camp three tends to be the rest of us. We are waiting till candidates actually announce they are running then we will make our choices on who is best fit to run this country. As for right now, we just smile and listen to the two other camps and are just waiting for the actual moment when we will all know who is actually running.

          • acat

            I am hopeful that what we’re seeing now in “camp one” are a number of old war horses trying to be the “first mover”, that is, to capture momentum or the illusion thereof early because they know the longer the primaries go on the worse they’ll look. This certainly explains Mitt and Huck and Newt – each one has quite enough baggage to sink a campaign unless they can sink everyone else first.

            Camp two are the tricky ones. There is an emotional appeal to Sarah Palin – some of which seems based in the male tendency to protect females perceived as under attack. I am not saying this is either bad or a conscious thing, but .. I find myself asking why so many otherwise rational people refuse to rationally discuss Candidate Palin. If she wins the nomination (and current polls show she can if she wants to…) then I’ll back her, weaknesses and all.

            I am solidly in camp 3. None of the old war horses appeal – and I’ll go on making the case against Romney as long as it takes for his campaign to fold, or until he wins the nomination. (and if he wins, I’ll put on my happy smile and cheer for him until the election…) Same for Thune, for what it’s worth. Had he not “waited his turn”, he may have done well in 2008. Too “insider” for this go-round, though.

            Right now, I’m watching for dark horse candidates. I like Herman Cain, and hope he decides to make a run. I also like Gov. Barbour. In both cases, they’re accomplished individualists, Barbour has good intel on how D.C. really works, Cain knows how business works and what it’ll take to create jobs.

            Interesting to see how this develops. First thing to watch is how long Camp One sticks around once it becomes apparent they’re not connecting with Camp Three.

            Mew

          • rsexteriors

            What exactly does that mean……….?????

            Seems to me there are only two camps

            (1) those of us that want a TRUE CONSERVATIVE and to return to our founding principles, whether that be with Palin or another true conservative (no other ones are on the radar as of now)

            (2) Those that keep the same old tired theory that we (Republicans) must be more like democrats so we can WIN. Which of course will ensure we either lose or end up still going far to the left just not as fast as an Obama would.

            I for one will NOT hold my nose and vote for another RINO like McCain or Romney. And no I do not believe there will be a 3rd party.

            We (Conservatives) are going to TAKE BACK the Republican party and keep it as ours. The Rino’s can go start their own party if they do not want to stick around and hold their nose and vote for our candidate like we have had to do time after time

          • acat

            Because everyone in Camp Three would like exactly what you’ve said – a true conservative, and a return to founding principles.

            We aren’t convinced that the best way to achieve this is with Candidate Palin. Unlike those of you in Camp Two.

            If you can explain to me why Palin is better than Herman Cain or Gov. Barbour, then we can perhaps reach agreement, but everything I’ve seen from Camp Two have insisted on making only those comparisons where Sarah comes out ahead – i.e. to Mitt “robot” Romney or “Huckster” Huckabee or “Dictator in training pants” Obama.

            Mew

          • powertothepeople

            it IMPRESSES no ONE!

            You are a Palin shrill and nothing more. You have the right to like who you want to, but do not jump on your own pious pulpit thinking that makes you more conservative than others. I would go as far as saying that it makes you less conservative than others considering his dismal record as an elected rep. She is very good at one thing and that is getting folks elected and full of cash. But she was a dismal failure as Gov and they is a matter of record. Palin lovers are unable to see past their noses when it comes to her record which is similar to mosquitoes being unable to see the slapping hand or the electric trap due to their incessant desire to suck blood.

            While your post got all preachy and I am scratching my head at who you think you are preaching to, most here agree we will not be happy with nose holding anymore when it comes to our votes.

            But not to answer your question. Palin lovers are like mosquitoes because:

            They swarm websites and constantly exude their blind love of Palin. When someone states the obvious about the woman, they get their panties twisted and start throwing out words like RINO, Blue bloods, moderates, fake repubs, etc.

            They are not interested in seeing the truth about the woman or her very low chances to win. They forget how bad she is dislike by independents which are a key to winning the presidential election. They just keep stating the same things similar to mosquitoes who ignore the slaps just to get a bit of blood.

            And just like mosquitoes in the summer, we will have to deal with Palin lovers till it is over or till she announces she will not be running. With Mosquitoes you have to wait till it gets cold for them to stop bothering you, we will have to wait till Palin is beat or does not run to be done with the constant love fest for Palin we see on all the sites.

          • rsexteriors

            by how I write or how I post. You obviously feel YOU are somehow more enlightened then anyone who would support Palin.

            Funny how you Palin HATERS always say she has no chance to win and she has no experience and that she was a “dismal failure” as Governor, but you can never back it up with any EVIDENCE. You just say that it is a “Matter of Record” and that is suppose to be the final word on it.

            Funny that is the same line of attack that the lefties always use against her.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            are out in front as Palin’s “true believers”.

            Posters have the audacity to point out that Palin – like every candidate – has some huge problems that nobody is willing to address. And what is the response? We’re Palin HATERS.

            Just like the folks who aren’t fond of Barack’s “accomplishments” are HATERS.

            Weak.

            Palin’s half term as governor:

            • Her budgets showed significant increases in spending. I don’t have the energy to look up the exact numbers, but since we’ve been through this foolishness before, they were significant.
            • ACES – a huge tax increase on oil producers. Is being reviewed by the current administration and will likely be either scrapped or rewritten.
            • The phantom gas line. Nothing done so far. Except to give about $150MM or so to a Canadian firm.
            • The ethics charges than ran her out of office. If she had simply asked the AG for certification tht her actions were consistent with the requirements of her office she’d not have had to spend a penny on legal services and the problem would have blown away.
            • She’s been out of office for about two years and supported Joe Miller. Her “opposition” in AK, the Murkowskis, beat Miller in a write in. Palin didn’t show her face to campaign for him in the general. Hmmm.

            Bottom line, every time she’s had the opportunity she’s expanded the role of government. As mayor and as governor. Her only real accomplishment is sticking knives in Republicans in her home state.

          • acat

            based on her time in government (statements after she quit are out of bounds) to other potential candidates.

            Here’s the work part. For every one of the retread clown posse (Romney, Newt, Huckabee) you include, you must include one of the current governors who’s been making noises (Daniels, Jindal, Pawlenty, Barbour).

            You may choose to include dark horses like Herman Cain or refusers like Gov. Christie if you wish.

            I am no Palin hater. I have been consistent in saying that, should she win the nomination, I’ll back her. I have been consistent in saying that I do not believe she is qualified, I believe she needs more executive experience. I have taken and will continue to hold this position until you convince me.

            So. Convince me. Sell me on Candidate Palin.

            Mew

          • JadedByPolitics

            would accuse people who have been here longer and MUCH longer of “swarming” a site, I would suggest you you look in the mirror before typing, your ignorance is showing.

          • powertothepeople

            such a whitty one you are. Yes, by god, time on a blog must be what makes one conservative, right, or capable of making a point.

            Oh how we have been wrong listening to so many wise people who have never belonged to RedState or one like it. We were fools to not listen to those who have a few years typing words on the internet.

            Get over yourself, you are not that clever and your time at redstate did not help any!

          • JadedByPolitics

            You like Obama need to grow a pair. You made a pathetic statement about Palin people “swarming” a site, I pointed out your ignorance by the time and really beyond the time the amount of participation in this site of those who commented on this day and really if those 39+ recommenders who agree with the diary are not part and parcel of the WISE on this site then your hateful demeanor will not last long and that is a WIN for Redstate!

          • powertothepeople

            you still keep repeating yourself. Guess all of us who disagree with your Palin Love are Obama types who are wrong.

            But it is OK, we know the moment you and the ones like you are challenged, your common sense goes out the window and you feel as if you have to protect the lady like your own child.

            And please, I could show you half a dozen Palin love fest diaries with just as many reps. Anyone on this site could go write a diary proclaiming how much Palin is their light, and they would get the reps. Yours was not that different from the numerous other ones on here concerning Palin love.

            The difference between the two of us, is I have no issue with you or whoever else liking or worshiping Palin. I will make my argument and move on. You and your types hate anyone who does not goose step behind you in favor of Palin. It is not me getting worked up and out of character nor will I have to worry about ulcers. You on the other hand better get use to the millions of people in this party who will not fall over due to the love of Palin. We saw the “god” elected once due to people being infatuated, we will not watch our own side do it.

            Now back to those with reason on their side………Join us soon won’t you!

          • acat

            In your case, your position is clear. You’re impressed with what Palin’s saying, and what Palins’ actions say about her character. I can agree with you on this.

            However.

            A number of her defenders come off as acting from emotional places, not rational ones.

            I have yet to hear a well thought out argument for why she’s ready for the job. She’s a great verbal bomb-thrower. She’s stuck more barbs in Obama than a porcupine has quills. She’s raised more money for more conservative candidates in 2010 than anyone else. That’s all great.

            None of it means she’s ready to be on the other side of the desk.

            My objections never have and never will have anything to do with her gender. My objections never have and never will have anything to do with the media attacks.

            The office of president is, first, an executive office. The next office holder is going to have to can tens of thousands of Democratic apparatchiks, and take the heat for it. The next office holder is going to have to, by executive order, shut down whole departments. We do not have the money to pay for them anymore, but we don’t have Congress doing their job and pulling plugs, so it will have to come from the Executive. The next office holder would be wise to also ban public employee unions by executive order (and let the courts decide it…) not to mention being, how did Biden put it, “tested on the international stage”.

            I fail to see where, in her career in office, she has shown the stones to pull this off. I would appreciate it if you would show me, not in her post-veep-run speeches, but in her actions in office, where I am missing something.

            Mew

            p.s. the requirement to not use speeches is not unique to Palin, I take the same approach to all candidates. I refuse to listen to most political speeches as they’re pretty much all just saying what they think the audience wants to hear… show me which way their feet are pointing.

          • JadedByPolitics

            there was no swarming of this diary other then by 4 hatefilled excuses for men. This diary ended up at the top because a majority of the users on Redstate liked what it had to say, you and a few ignorant, classless Palin haters as is par for course on a diary about her SWARM the diary and make it some supposed “intellectual” exercise in tit for tat and show me, show me, well I say find out for yourself, those of US who like her have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. WE like the rest of America have a right to choose who speaks on our behalf and just because a bunch of doddering old fools don’t like they waste their Sunday trying to prove their “intelligence” (ignorance) so really it shows a few people on Redstate NEED a life!

          • acat

            This is an emotional response.

            This is not an attempt to persuade. It is an attack on the character of those who criticize Palin.

            You absolutely have the right to decide who speaks for you. That’s the point of the primaries and the elections.

            I have not made up my mind. I have looked at Gov. Palin’s record in office and I have questions.

            Instead of answering them, I get .. vitriol.

            Would you please answer my questions? What in her record makes her so compelling for you?

            Respectfully,

            Mew

          • kestrel

            and look what I just found:
            http://biggovernment.com/jmsimpson/2010/11/28/breaking-power-to-the-people-repeal-amendment-gaining-strength/
            I’m soooo excited!

            Back to you, PoP.

          • powertothepeople

            Were you trying to give Palin credit for this potential action? If so, you may want to find an article that actually gives her credit prior to using one that does not to try to make a point.

            If that was your point in the first place.

            How about you explain so I can understand what you are trying to get across here.

            I mean it is a great article and hopefully it comes to fruition, but what in the world does it have to do with Palin?

          • powertothepeople

            Palin though enough about the biggest RINO McCain to run on his ticket and endorse him this election cycle which makes me question her conservatism even more. And since she was on the failed ticket last time, I will proclaim what so many of your types and others have said before now:

            No one who was on the last ticket should be on this one. Fresh conservative blood is what we need, not retreads. She was on the last ticket which means she is a retread. Lets skip all the retreads and support new vibrant conservatives.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            better check out Palin’s pathetic record as Governor and find a new horse.

          • jerry39

            we have moved the RINO’s to the right. Think Rudi and McCain as the 2008 Rino darlings.

          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            This one especially. Deserves study and further inquiry. Thanks for the heads up.
            VB

          • acat

            but bomb-thrower-in-chief isn’t a generally successful approach either.

            This choir member is waiting for the muttering in the pews to end and the preachin’ to start.

            Mew

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            I was comparing Jindal with Christie.

            But 2012 is too far away still – which I guess puts me in Camp Three.

            And I’d like at least another six months (and closer to a year would be even better) before the preaching auditions start – cause once they start, they won’t be stopping until the primary season ends.

            Meanwhile, we’ve got a lot of work to keep the our ship of state afloat until we can get some repairs done.

          • acat

            But I’ll also say that Christie shows now interest in running.

            Mew

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            I mean, he’s been in office for less than a year. Let’s see what record he can accomplish in NJ and if he can get reelected, and then he hopefully should have an impressive record if he’s able to effect conservative changes in a state like NJ and not turn into a RINO.

          • acat

            I seem to recall a number of people pushing Jindal to run, back when he was the wunderkind of the Louisiana GOP… and it’s interesting to see how many soured on him after his .. painful .. response to the State of the Union.

            Christie is making a number of good fiscally conservative moves. It remains to be seen whether he can go the distance – which is a good test for any Republican POTUS candidate. Not the only test, of course, but .. one good one.

            Mew

        • powertothepeople

          See I knew we would agree on politics somewhere Acat.

          • acat

            Seriously, I mean what I say – I arrive at small-government conservatism by a different path than you do, but the result is that we have a lot of the same goals, and should be able to work together if we don’t get caught up in quibbling.

            See further reply above.

            Mew

        • Tbone

          That’s easy. All of those guys have something in common with me. None of us has a chance in hell of winning the Republican nomination if Palin is in the primaries.

          As such, the comparison is easy. Sarah is a winner, they are all losers.

          • aesthete

            Who can forget the embarrassing loss suffered by the unknown governor from Arkansas, Bill Clinton? Or how about that other unknown governor from the South, Jimmy Carter? People are unknown precisely until they are not, and against an unpopular incumbent, it pays off to run an unknown with a good record and a compelling pitch, rather than someone who has “momentum” or who can ostensibly “win”: the latter often leads to cases like almost-President Kerry.

          • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister
          • JSobieski

            I take it then that you wont bother wasting your time posting at RS given your statement? Or if it be mere hyperbole, maybe you could . .. oh I don’t know . . . provide some type of . .. well . . . you know . . argument?

            Maybe cite a fact or two and then tie them together in support of broader conclusion?

            You seem to want to avoid an actual record-based comparison. If Palin is so great, convince others to make her election even more of tsunami. I for one would like to know more about her record as governor, the least discussed aspect of Palin’s career.

          • Tbone

            1. It takes money to win elections.

            2. It takes a nationwide network of people to win a national nomination.

            These two facts can be tied together by noting that Palin has both and can get a lot more. As much and as many as she needs. The others mentioned have neither, nor are they likely to even coming close to a double digit percentage of what Palin has or can get.

            Draw you own conclusion.

            Policy wonks are lousy handicappers.

          • JSobieski

            The same arguments the Ford, Dole, and Graham supporters used.

            The right ideas for the day will attract monetary and people support. Surely Palin has more going for her than what you identify.

            If you want to admit that I am focused more on policy and you are focused more on personality, I accept that characterization. I want actual conservative governance in 2012. Not just conservative talk, conservative networks, and a national chain of donors.

          • Tbone

            You want to plow a field, you get a draft horse. You want to win a race, you get a thoroughbred.

            As for Romney, the man is a joke. How much money did he spend last time to get nowhere? He’s an idiot to buy another ticket for that same trip.

          • acat

            Gov. Barbour has a handle on both money and connections.

            The RGA (Republican Governor’s Association) raised and spent a ton of money in the 2008 cycle, quite successfully. Haley Barbour headed it up. He also headed up the RNC during the Contract with America period.

            Gov. Barbour knows far more than Gov. Palin about how to run a successful nationwide campaign.

            Mew

          • aesthete

            before his work with the RNC and his tenure as MI’s Gov. Barbour is one guy who I wouldn’t worry about as far as successful campaigning and organizing go.

          • aesthete

            before his work with the RNC and his tenure as MI’s Gov. Barbour is one guy who I wouldn’t worry about as far as successful campaigning and organizing go.

          • Tbone

            it might help. Personally, I think the guy is brilliant, but then I’m just Oakie and he sounds fine to me.

          • acat

            than a record on which to run, right?

            Daniels is boring, so according to you, will lose.

            Barbour is a hayseed and while that’s okay for you, he’s not gonna win because of it.

            Quite a lot of emphasis on how people sound instead of what they’ve actually accomplished.

            Mew

          • Tbone

            whether you and I believe it should be otherwise.

            The electorate is really not a very discerning group.

          • acat

            Accents matter, unless they don’t. (ask Lamar Alexander and Bill Clinton if their accents mattered)

            Exciting oratory matters, unless it doesn’t. (ask Bush 2.0 and Ross Perot if their speaking styles mattered)

            At this point, only those who can seriously be called insiders (i.e. Rove, Axelrod, Schrum, etc.) know who’s murmuring because they’re serious about running and who’s just murmuring for the sake of attention.

            More importantly, the only ones paying attention to that murmuring are the political junkies; if we were all into football instead, we’d be watching video of off-season practices and listening for rumors of who’s being traded, etc.

            My point to the horn section is that it’s too early to count Barbour or Daniels out. You’re right that they’ve got some issues to overcome, but .. so does every candidate… including Candidate Palin.

            Mew

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            I don’t think that a Southern accent harms candidates. Then again, I’m a North Carolina native. I think that Haley Barbour is an outstanding politician, and he’d make a great President.

            That said (and hopefully I don’t come across as a concern troll), if he runs for president, and especially if he wins the nomination, there will be a lot of noise about his association with the Council of Conservative Citizens. Supposedly, the predecessor organization of the CofCC is the White Citizens’ Council, an organization from the 1950s and 1960s (that essentially dissolved in the 1970s) that was allegedly segregationist. A lot of the language on the CCC website (http://www.cofcc.org) is offensive to many Americans (a majority, I imagine). My employer blocks the CCC website because it falls under the Discrimination category, or I’d include some quotes.

            The story, as I understand it, is that during the 2004 gubernatorial race, Barbour attended a barbecue to benefit the Blackhawk “council school”. From what I understand (and this is knowledge culled from the Internet), council schools are private schools that were formed by the White Citizens’ Council as a response to forced integration (If I’m wrong, please correct me). I don’t think that this plays very well in most of the country.

            To be clear, I am not calling Haley Barbour a racist. But plenty of individuals in the media will. At the very least, they’ll paint him with a brush that’s broad enough to smear him badly, and if it’s effective, the smear will apply more broadly to the GOP in general.

            In fairness to Governor Barbour, it’s probably impossible to be a statewide candidate in Mississippi without appearing at such events (His Democratic opponent missed it due to a scheduling conflict), but the nature of local politics can get lost in media noise. I think that this stinks, and I wish that it weren’t so, but I think that a Barbour candidacy would open up a lot of old wounds. I’ll support him if he’s the candidate, but the CCC thing might be a big enough negative to harm him as well as downstream Republican candidates.

          • janis

            so much and for so little evidence that I doubt it has the punch anymore that it used to. No matter who we put up, they will holler racism.

            I’m not of a mind to allow the other side to change our choice of candidate at any point anymore.

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            Folks on the left have overplayed the race card, but a Barbour candidacy would give them the opportunty to make hay, I think, and I don’t want to lose moderates and some independents over tonal issues. I’m a bit torn, because I think that we should define ourselves and not let our opponents do so for us, and Haley Barbour is a great candidate. Some of the stuff on the CCC website is pretty odious, though, even if Barbour’s connection to them is thin.

          • aesthete

            that most people pay attention to the challenger’s loose associations, especially in an anti-incumbent season. In 2008, no one cared about Obama’s radical associations, and given that the association between Barbour and the CCC is so loose (one meet ‘n greet out of thousands, if I recall), I don’t think that it will hurt him too badly. If I were him, I’d get it out of the way very early on, either through surrogates or his own public statement. I see what you’re saying (and it will certainly do wonders for the left’s choir-preaching industry), but I just can’t see the 2012 campaign coming down to Obama asking Barbour, “are you now, or have you ever been, a racist?”

            (That said, I would currently prefer Barbour as VP for that, and several other, reasons.)

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            I may be overly sensitive about this issue, since the modern GOP has a history of being a bit tone-deaf regarding racial matters and for various personal reasons.

            In My Grandfather’s Son, Clarence Thomas expresses his frustration with the Reagan White House and how poorly they reached out to the black communitiy. It’s extremely unfortunate, as Democratic policies harm blacks more than Republican policies do, generally speaking. (Have you seen the African-American unemployment rate lately?) Tone seems to matter more than substance in this area, though, and I don’t know how we can change the conversation about race. I don’t see it happening in the next couple of years.

            I agree with you that Barbour would be an excellent candidate for VP.

          • Jack_Savage

            Barack Obama.

          • acat

            … as was pointed out in another diary, the title of which escapes me, if the electorate likes the current POTUS, they vote for people like him, and if they don’t like the current POTUS, they vote for people who are unlike him in ways that they recognize as important.

            If the voters recognize that going for style over substance is at the heart of the Obama win, then they’ll go for someone with more substance than style. Daniels, forex.

            If the voters recognize that they went for a guy with no jacket, they may want to go for someone with a long jacket. Barbour or Daniels, forex.

            We can’t know at this distance what the primary voters are going to make of any of the candidates. What we can do, since we’re the early crowd (hint – most thanksgiving conversations, if they went political at all, were likely rehashing the 2010 election) is to learn what we can and share notes.

            So far, all I’ve seen notes-wise on Palin is Becker’s post indicating that she’s having problems breaking through to independents. Everything else has been an emotion-driven defensive muddle.

            Mew

          • Jack_Savage

            Which argues well for a nerdy, fiscal type like Daniels.

          • Tbone

            at the annual convention of actuaries.

          • acat

            Public speaking skills can be improved, though.

            I doubt Daniels could ever be the “great communicator”, but …perhaps he could learn a straightforward but less dry style that would set him apart from Obama’s slick oratory without putting the audience to sleep…

            Mew

          • Tbone

            But, leaving his fly open is about all he could manage.

          • spainishirish

            endlessly by the Northeastern and California establishments.

            I won’t vote for someone on the basis of victimhood, real or perceived. It is doubly ironic to read where Palin supporters are afraid Barbour, Daniels, whoever might not do well because…they could be vicitmized. I do believe that Palin has been brutalized unfairly, incidentally. Nonetheless, that doesn’t make her the best choice by any means.

            This isn’t to say I will rule out Palin, but her resume is paper thin and we already have one celebrity president. That hasn’t worked out well. She will have to prove herself in debates and on the trail before I consider her. In the meantime, I’ll look around for thicker resumes and more experience.

            We also need to settle on a nominee fairly quickly. Obama is highly beatable but it will not be easy. As things stand now, our side seems headed toward a 2008-type nomination process that means the last man or woman standing wins. I hope that changes.

            I take a backseat to no one in my abject hatred of the Republican establishment. I almost was tossed from this site a half a dozen times because I didn’t agree with establishment positions during the Bush Administration, something Jaded and I shared. On the other hand, just because the Republican establishment may support someone doesn’t mean they are necessarily the wrong choice.

          • acat

            Were you to enter, and were Sarah to suffer a “Dean Scream” moment, you would move toward the front of the pack.

            Admittedly, you’d still be behind Barbour and Cain and maybe Daniels, but you’d beat out Romney…

            Mew

          • Tbone

            Daniels, no problem.

            Boring!

            If Daniels picked up a serial killer hitchhiker, after 15 minutes in the car with Daniels, the guy would murder himself.

          • acat

            but .. this cat has had enough flash and oratory for a while. I want a candidate who has the skills (mad skillz?) to actually balance a budget, keep the government rolling, grow jobs, grow crops, bash unions when deserved (99.99% of the time) work with unions the rest of the (0.01%) of the time etc. etc.

            Daniels has done this in Indiana. Is he dull? Sure. After all the “excitement” of The Won, dull sounds like just the change I’m hoping for.

            Mew

          • Tbone

            Except in Indiana. LOL

  • http://www.defeatobama.com DefeatObama.com

    Perception is reality to most people. She hasn’t really done anything to fix the perception that she has the intellect to handle being president.

    I like the idea of Sarah. I’ve more than a few times questioned people why they aren’t more supportive of someone who literally is an example of an average American rising to be a leader. So please refrain from bashing me over the perception comment.

    • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

      but I think she has done things to fix this. She’s written two books, and comments regularly on FOX and her closely watched facebook page. And over the past two years her commentary (and grammar) has gotten much better.

      • http://www.defeatobama.com DefeatObama.com

        However for every step forward she makes she does something just as equally to re-enforce the perception that she is incompetent. Writing on her hand, mistaking North Korea for South Korea as well as other incidents just give fuel to that fire.

        • Bill S

          by Palin is very leftist-like.

          Palin-bashing and oil-industry-bashing doesn’t make for very good odds of your long-term survival here.

          (Mgmt)

    • rsexteriors

      That Palin has not done anything to fix the perception that she does not have the intellect to handle being President?????

      She is the ONLY one out there that ACTUALLY gives policy speeches on issues as they are happening. And she is correct.

      Political Strategy
      http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/252477/midterms-lessons-learned-and-way-forward-sarah-palin?page=1

      Monetary Policy
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/obamas-clever-way-to-punt-the-tough-calls-driving-the-dollar-down/454151943434

      Energy Policy
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/energy-producing-and-manufacturing-states-must-send-job-creators-to-dc/443610258434

      Energy Independence
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/fuel-america-with-terrorist-tarred-oil-instead-of-drilling-our-own-baby/398548958434

      Iraq
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/humility-and-honesty-about-iraq-can-inspire-trust/424674843434

      Taxes
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/pants-on-fire-still/416223228434

      Obamacare
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/out-of-touch-congress-sounds-our-clarion-call-to-take-a-stand/373540253434

      Cap & Trade
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/13/AR2009071302852.html

      Isreal
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/israeli-flotilla-dont-take-mainstream-media-coverage-at-face-value/394980903434

      Securing the border
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/mr-president-do-your-job-secure-our-border/389749508434

      Financial Reform
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/institutionalizing-crony-capitalism/382303098434

      Racism
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/the-charge-of-racism-its-time-to-bury-the-divisive-politics-of-the-past/408166998434

      Tax Payer funded Pensions
      http://www.conservatives4palin.com/2010/10/governor-palin-talks-about-pension.html

      Media Bias
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/media-bias-what-media-bias-bombshell/410455148434

      Obama’s Hypocracy
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/obamas-predictable-tiring-ineffective-lecture-would-someone-call-him-on-the-hypo/415377263434

      Obama’s Incompetence
      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/less-talkin-more-kickin/397148258434

      Should I KEEP GOING?????

      What other Republican Candidate is out there putting their neck on the line taking a firm CONSERVATIVE Position????????

      NO ONE

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        Sarah Palin has an actual record as an executive – even if it was just for a short time. Nothing she’s saying now aligns with her record. I’m not going to argue point by point now, too far away from primary time, but the bottom line is that by pointing out how conservative she talks, you make the same argument as the Romney supporters who argue about how pro-life Mitt is. It won’t fly beyond those supporters who view their candidate as being the savior. Just like the folk who elected Obama.

        Second, watch the F/U polling numbers. It’s way to early to put any stock in specific polling about ’12, at this point in ’06 the race was going to be Rudy v HRC. However, polling trend lines are very indicative of how strong a candidate might be, and F/U are much better indicators than head to head match ups at this point.

        Here’s a baseline for you from WaPo polling. Again, I’m only interested in directional data. For ease of transferring the chart, I’ve combined the “Strongly” and “Somewhat” numbers, where I think it’s appropriate I’ve made comments relative to their distribution.

        Do you have a favorable or unfavorable impression of Sarah Palin?

          Fav UnFav
        All adults 37% 55%
        Democrats 15% 75%
        Republicans 66% 30%
        Independents 38% 55%

        So, no real surprises. Palin has an overall favorable rating with Republicans and is viewed unfavorably by Democrats. The more interesting part of these numbers is the “Strongly/Somewhat” split. I’m ignoring Democrats here.

          Strongly Somewhat
        Republican Fav

        35%

        31%

        Republican UnFav

        13%

        17%

        Independent Fav

        17%

        22%

        Independent UnFav

        16%

        40%

        Here we see that Republicans are mushy on her favorables, split about equally between strongly and somewhat. Same for Independents, although they lean more heavily to somewhat. On the unfavorable side however, again Republicans are equally split with a small lean toward unfavorable. Independents are 2.5 to 1 strongly unfavorable. That would appear to be a significant number.

        Now then, by way of comparison, let’s look at the F/U for the Tea Party movement and the TP’s position on issues. I’m only going to look at Independents, the R/D numbers fall where you’d expect them to. For specifics, read the whole article.

        Favorable or unfavorable impression of the Tea Party?
        Agree (Fav) or disagree (Unfav) with TP positions on issues?

          Favorable Unfavorable
        Independent TP Movement

        45%

        37%

        Independent TP Issues

        47%

        41%

        So, with respect to Independents, they have an overall favorable impression of the TP movement and agree with TP positions on issues. There was a third question about whether the respondent thought the TP movement was having too much influence on the Republican Party and the Independents responded that the influence was the “Right Amount”. Bottom line with this poll, it’s safe to draw a conclusion that the TP is a net positive with Independent voters.

        Those same Independent voters have a net unfavorable view of Palin by 17 points.

        That, rs, is a very big problem for Palin.

        • rsexteriors

          #1 We are two years out of the election

          #2 She is doing quite well in the polls considering she has been under CONSTANT attack from the left, media and Republican Elite and those like you that get their talking points from Will and Rove.

          She has had an ANAL when it comes to people investigating her, her family and just outright lies told about her and she is still close to 50% approval. She can only go UP over the next two years.

          Where as most of your RINO boys have not had ANYTHING reported (Or lied about) in their backgrounds. And Even Romney was never given a media Anal because he was never the nominee.

          The other so called “Front Runners” can go WAY DOWN in the polls if they win the nomination and then get the “Palin Treatment” by the media and the left.

          That is why the Left and The Blue Bloods are so SCARED of her. She has withstood an avalanche of negitive stories and outright horrible lies about her and she is STILL STANDING and Still close to 50% approval rating. They know she can WIN and they are pulling out all the stops to ensure she does not run.

          RUN SARAH RUN

          • acat

            Being under constant attack does not make someone qualified for POTUS. Period. Find another reason for me to support her in the primary. By that rationale, I should be baking Joe The Plumber for veep… but I’m not.

            If you haven’t seen anything about Newt, Romney, Huckabee, Daniels, Pawlenty, Jindal, then it’s because you’re not looking. The stories are out there, the early moves are obvious.

            The reason for the current round of anti-Sarah stories is because the Dems seem to think they can beat Palin more easily than a “serious” candidate… they did the same thing to McCain in 2006, if you’ll recall.

            I would prefer, this time, to wait a while and see how all of the candidates – including Sarah – perform on the campaign trail before I choose one to support. (hint – it won’t be Romney, Newt, Thune, or any of the other “retreads”)

            You’re being rushed to make an early decision, rxesteriors. I refuse to join you in this. If Sarah is the nominee, I’ll support her – but if she’s not, I’ll expect you to support whoever the nominee is.

            Mew

          • Tbone

            “The reason for the current round of anti-Sarah stories is because the Dems seem to think they can beat Palin more easily than a ?serious? candidate?”

            It doesn’t make much sense in it’s current configuration.

          • JSobieski

            I agree with you TBone, I don’t think its some type of clever conspiracy where the left thinks Palin is a weak candidate, and are attempting to unite the Right behind her.

            Political movements simply are that savy or capable of such broad based conspiracy.

            They just hate the lady.

          • acat

            In short, they don’t understand why, when they bash Palin, her poll numbers go up, but they are smart enough to see cause and effect…

            Too bad we don’t know what replaced the old Journolist listerv. I’m sure the new version would enlighten us a bit here.

            A conspiracy doesn’t need much cleverness… in fact, they work quite a bit better when most of the co-conspirators are completely in the dark.

            Mew

          • JSobieski

            What is conservative economic policy other than causes have effects?

            I have heard many smart liberals wish that their side would stop attacking Palin so that she would be in the news less.

            I think you give lefties too much credit, but who knows?

          • acat

            The press is the house organ of the Democrats. They climbed into Obama’s tank, and are still sitting there, drinking their own bug juice.

            In 2006, they talked up McCain’s maverick credentials, his anti-Bush credentials, etc. McCain went into the primaries with what looked like momentum, and emerged the presumptive nominee, at which point the media stabbed him in the back and left his campaign to die.

            My hypothesis is that they’re looking at the same polling data mbecker posted (and rsexteriors rejected) and have decided they want Palin to be the nominee, and that the best way to get there is to continue to go negative on her.

            By keeping the pressure on Palin, they keep the emotional reaction to “defend the damsel in distress” going, and that effectively prevents a more capable candidate (one who won multiple terms as governor, forex) from even being considered.

            In short, they’re pulling a head-fake play to ensure Obama can get a second term. I’m not sure it’ll work, but .. Nominee Palin would suppress a lot of the FiCon vote in the Northeast.. she’d have to be able to win with just the South and the libertarians in the West…

            Mew

          • Tbone
          • jerry39

            The idea that the press is trying to push Palin by bashing her assumes that the press believes it is impotent to influence people in the direction it wants to. If the press had that much savy and humility, they wouldn’t be liberal. The press has one tactic to build or destroy, which is choosing what to report and how to spin it.

            It also ignores the fact that the press has reached many indepedents, hence the polling above.

            It also ignores the fact that people dont like Palin because she is a victim, they like what she stands for.

          • acat

            is much, much smaller than the number of people who create the stories… and while their business acumen is still pathetic (witness plummeting circulation, falling ratings, etc.) there has to be some understanding of manipulation at that level…

            Yeah, it’s a reach, but .. it’s not nearly as far a reach as it initially appears.

            Mew

          • acat

            Journolist is proof that there is coordination among the gatekeepers of the news, the writers of the stories, and the politically connected left to paint certain stories and people in certain ways industrywide.

            (cat wonders if a RICO prosecution would work…)

            Thing is, just because the old listserv is gone doesn’t mean the network went away, any more than a whale diving means the whale vanished. Just means we don’t see it anymore…

            Journolist proves collaboration exists, and at that point all it takes is one person, maybe in the White House, who can see that bashing isn’t having the desired effect – they’ve hit the floor they can push her rating to, but who can realize that the bashing is having the effect of isolating her defenders from the independents, making her an easier target for Obama to defeat – just keep the independents split away from the republicans and the Dems win.

            Mew

          • jerry39

            … only that they are not seekig to engender pity by making themselves bullies so that Palin will win the Primary and lose the general. Even if they really thought that might work, the press likes a win-win election cycle. A liberal republican vs. a liberal democrat, they dont want to take risks with a Sarah Palin. That is why SP is painted as a freak, so that they can paint somebody else as a respectable moderate.

          • acat

            A text search for Anderson will find it.

            In short, the model is the John Anderson “independent” run in 1980.

            In the event the media can split the independents away from Nominee Palin, all it would take is a big Repub ego who thinks his turn has come (Mayor Bloomberg, John Thune perhaps) to run an “insurgent” campaign.. and the media get their win-win.

            Mew

          • aesthete

            “Where as most of your RINO boys have not had ANYTHING reported (Or lied about) in their backgrounds.”

            One does not have to be a RINO to be against a Palin Presidency, nor does one have to dislike Palin or the groups that she broadly represents (women, conservatives, “flyover country”, etc) to post something that is critical of her, or that posits that she is unelectable (though I’ll admit that the latter argument can sometimes elicit concern troll-like responses). Becker, for instance, doesn’t come close to supporting Romney or Huck: if I remember correctly, he prefers Palin to either of those two (so do I, btw). We simply do not have an inflated view of Palin’s accomplishments or record.

            You mention rhetoric above, but note that Obama was elected due to imagery and rhetoric a scant three years ago (rhetoric which has largely been contradicted by his actions as President): suffice it to say, rhetoric is nice, but far from authoritative when it comes to evaluating a candidate.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            “true believers” are out early. It’s going to be a long cycle.

          • aesthete

            the Palinista-Paulite TrueBeliever? fistfights (there’s no chance that an egoist like Paul doesn’t run again).

          • JSobieski

            No other candidates would get any attention or traction.

            Romney would get the RINOs. The internet would be consumed it the Paul-Palin battle, and nobody would get any attention.

            I really think we could be screwed.

          • aesthete

            Primarily, I think the movement would be best served if Palin endorsed a competent conservative (Barbour or Haley, perhaps?), and concentrated on fundraising, stump speeches, and the rest of what she’s doing right now.

          • JSobieski

            and yes I do think it will present a whole range of problems.

            If Palin runs, it will be Palin vs. 2008 Re-treads. Nobody else has the name recognition.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            I would prefer a Barbour or Jindal etc. But i have been a fan of her since 2006 after seeing her on C-Span based on her policies and know she would be a good conservative President, but have to be honest to say that I prefer several ahead of her.

          • acat

            This cat is going to have to work out from context if the writer is referring to Gov. Haley Barbour or Gov. Nikki Haley…

            Mew

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            to be on a Presidential ticket. Too new and Rubio has never been an exec and he acts like a legislator. I would prefer another Floridian with a military mein like Allen West if we want new and young. Palin quit her last job and that doesn’t help her.

          • acat

            West’s direct approach and clearly stated objectives are a remarkably fresh breath out of D.C. I’m hoping he doesn’t get bogged down in the quagmire but is able to serve with honor (how else?) and then maybe make a run for Florida governor.

            Mew

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I specifically said the polling was for the purpose of watching trend only. And it points to a big problem for Palin.

            And, they’re not “my” polls. I’m just reporting. Kinda like when I reported nine months or so before the Arizona primary that the same kind of data would sink JD Hayworth in the AZ Senate primary by 20 points. About a dozen “true believers” came after me with the same crap you’re tossing out now. We’ll see.

            Please note, I’m not saying that Palin can’t win the primary. She obviously has a real core of “true believers”, just like Obama did. It’s the general election that is really in question.

            And BTW, a 38% fav rating with Independents isn’t “almost” 50%. Palin has, whether you want to accept it or not, real problems with the electorate. There’s a long march to November ’12. We’ll see what happens. I will note however, faux arguments that you’ve made on these pages will get shredded come primary time. “True believers” don’t last long in the heat of the battle, check out the history of RonPaul™ and Huckabee “true believers” in ’08. Their blood ran in the gutters and it wasn’t even hard.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            I do think that her negatives are too high and think that having quit the Governorship will take a long time to overcome. I also think that she is the victim of regional prejudice by many that don’t even realize that they think she’s stupid because of her accent. Much more of America was less prejudiced at this sub-surface level of the mind back in the 60s when Southern Baptists preferred Catholic JFK.

            I think this kind of prejudice was also a factor in how Quayle was viewed and there are others.

            And btw, Becker, been loving your stuff lately.

            Cocks beat Clemson…Cocks will next challenge the x-ray capacity of TSA and then Auburn in the Georgia Dome, then

            The Sugar Bowl.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I did forecast for JD, but by then the issues were clear and there was no real doubt about the outcome.

            I don’t have a clue how Palin will do in either a primary or general. All I’m pointing out is that she has a whole battery of HUGE negatives that have not been addressed at all.

            Among her biggest problems is that her most vociferous supporters, like those posting here and C4P, have completely given up the process of rational thought where it comes to Palin. JS post at the bottom is the most obvious attempt – made by him in good faith, I believe – to pull the curtain back and expose the man in the booth. Or in this case, the woman in the booth.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/254002/would-sarah-palin-bid-prove-media-ultimately-irrelevant

            http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/254007/hispanic-voters-didnt-punish-gop-over-arizona

        • rsexteriors

          Who cares what the libs at washington post say.

          Even the AP who conducted a poll a few days after the election shows much stronger numbers then the nonsense you posted above. Of course the AP did there best to twist and taint the results in their article, but this is there numbers and they are also Liberals
          http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g68hO2GlttQewzQRcwBo-T9M_6CA?docId=d0302262aaca4951a25b05dc325a8890

          Favorable Ratings

          Palin 46% favorable
          Huckabee 49% favorable
          Romney 40% favorable
          Pawlenty 28% favorable
          Barbour 27% favorable
          Daniels 24% favorable
          Thune 20% favorable

          Viewed favorably by Republicans or Republican-leaning independents

          Palin 79%
          Huckabee 74%
          Romney 64%
          Gingrich 68%
          Pawlenty 28%
          Barbour 27%
          Daniels 24%
          Thune 20%

          So from where I sit. She is on top of the Republican field even after having the left, the media and the Blue Bloods do everything they could the last two years to destroy her. She is ahead of your precious Romney and she can only go up once she is able to get in front of the American People, in debates etc, without the Media Filter.

          Once the American people, Independents, see how badly they were lied to about Palin her numbers will skyrocket and hopefully it will be the final nail in the corrupt media coffin

          • Tbone

            a candidate must be able to turn out the Base. So a fair question is, ” How far would I walk to hear a speech by any one of the candidates listed and how much would I pay to get in?”

            Personally, for all those listed below Palin, I might walk out to my driveway and I would ask them all to pay rent.

          • JSobieski

            nt

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            was not that the WaPo polling is “accurate” at this point. It was that there is a huge disconnect between Palin’s F/U numbers with independents and your pronouncements on how she’s proved she can walk on water. The other, and more important point, is that the same WaPo poll you deride shows Independents have a generally favorable view of the TP and generally side with the TP on issues. The same people who have a massively unfavorable view of Palin.

            The most interesting thing about “true believers” is their total inability to process information. You’re in for a long election cycle.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            realize it.

            First of all, you’re looking at total numbers. I looked at Indenpendents only.

            Secondly, you want to flack numbers that are from “Republican leaning” Independents. That’s about as worthless as, well you can probably figure it out.

            You should spend more time at “Conservatives4Palin”. You’d be right at home in the prayer meetings.

          • rsexteriors

            Washington Post poll numbers as EVIDENCE that Palin could never win and in your mind you are reputable and bright

            I post numbers from another source, even another liberal source, and all the sudden I’m just some stupid person that cannot process information and don’t realize it.

            Sounds pretty Elitest to me.

            Your numbes are the ones that do not MATTER. The Primary is before the General.

            My numbers show that she is well postioned to win the Primary if she enters it. Her numbers are still at the top of the pack even though the Left and the Right have tried to ruin and destroy her over the last two years.

            Of course she would not look real well to so called “Independents” right now because most have had their view of her created by either the Leftist Media or, as the case of many here, be the Republican Blue Blood Elitests.

            Once she WINS the primary and goes into the General Election and starts DEBATING the Idiot (I mean Obama), her numbers will definately rise. They can not go down lower because she has been the most demonized and vetted candidate out there.

            Now if Romney or Huckabee runs, The media will treat them kindly until they get the nomination and then BAM they will start getting the “Palin Treatment” and their numbers will plumet.

            I still think they can beat Obama because by 2012 his approval rating will be about 25%, but neither of them would make near as good of a President as Palin.

            So all of you who say “Yeah she is conservative” but she can not be elected are fooling yourselfs or trying to fool others

          • jerry39

            But I dont think it solves Palin’s problems with independents. The thought that those viewpoints would pivot on a few debates IF and the key word here is IF those Wapo numbers hold for the next year and 1/2 seems a little far fetched.

            The point I think that at least some others are trying to respectfully make is that she needs to correct the problem with independents sooner rather than later. She is definitely building a super loyal base that could be exremely useful in primary and in the general. Building money, ground game. loyalty among new and old TP types. All this is great, and so are her stated positions on the issues.

            But while, Dancing with the stars, SP’s Alaska, mamma grizzlies, and tweeting to the choir may be helpful in building and strenghtening that base, at some point she has to get out in front of independents in a way that convinces them she is bright and compentent, and this needs to happen before they hold negative opinons of her for 4 solid years.

            I am not saying she cant accomplish that. I wouldnt be suprised if she could. She just hasn’t yet.

    • jeffreywturner

      However, I’d like to have a good President rather than someone who is perceived to be a good President.

      Now I know the “electability” argument. However, if the current state of the economy does not improve significantly in the next 18 – 23 months, it won’t really matter who the GOP nominates because Obama would lose to Daffy Duck.

  • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

    It’s sad to see those who support other candidates run with the Democrat smears in order to try to pre-empt a Palin run. If she’s unelectable, then I guess I can’t support anyone who is “electable”. Romey? No. He’s Obama with an R after his name. Palin has been vetted. She has governed a state (quite capably, thank you very much). She has the media tied around her little finger. She has written two best selling books. Her family has been in two TV shows. She relates to people on an emotional and cultural level in addition to having intellectually sound arguments. She’s an outdoorswoman. She knows energy policy, and how to develop resources while protecting the environment. She’s dealt with foreign countries (Canada, Russia). She’s commanded the Alaska national guard. She’s pro-life, even to the point of courageously having a Down’s syndrome kid. She understands what everyday American families deal with – education, jobs, healthcare, She’s a Christian who is able to talk about faith in a way that doesn’t turn people off. She’s inspiring. She’s Tea Party, but mainstream Republican. She’s limited government, but compassionate towards the less fortunate. She’s pro-military, but has a mom’s caring touch. She bridges all the gaps.

    Who the heck else can beat her on all of that?

    • acat

      Compare Palin to someone other than Mitt “perfect hair” Romney or Barak “training pants” Obama and she doesn’t fare as well.

      How’s she stack up against Gov. Barbour, for example?

      He’s a multi-term governor, unlike Palin.

      His state is financially relatively sound despite Obama, and has had a much better post-Katrina recovery than Jindal’s Louisiana.

      He’s spent more time in D.C. than Obama had, and was running the RNC during the Contract with America, and head of the RGA during the 2010 elections. He knows more about how D.C. really works than Palin, and how to run a successful nationwide campaign than Palin.

      Barbour is the commander of the Mississippi National Guard, just as Palin is the commander of the Alaska National Guard, and from what I can tell, both have had troops deployed in Iraq.

      Alaska borders with Russia across a body of water, Mississippi borders Mexico across a body of water. While the threat from Russia is military in nature, the threat from Mexico is in the form of illegals and drugs – and immigration and the southern border – something Gov. Palin did not have to deal with – is set to be a campaign issue in 2012. Barbour is better positioned here.

      We need to have some serious discussions around Palin, not just keep comparing her to the 2008 retread clown squad…

      Mew

      • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

        and he might have great policy, I don’t know. The problem is, he doesn’t have a grassroots following. There’s nothing distinctive about him. You have to look at it from the average voter’s perspective, not from the establishment’s. Plus, it may sound shallow, but a lot of people are going to be tired of another old white guy from the south. Huckabee at least had style.

        • JSobieski

          Its amazing how one becomes associated with a distinct style when then get an upgrade in TV coverage, which is what would happen should Barbour run.

          Palin didn’t have a distinct style (or she was not known for it) until she became the VP nominee.

          Charisma is largely an acquired attribute. It is also largely an indirect attribute.

          Anyone who leads a charge against Obamacare is going to acquire a distinctive style, mark my words on it.

          • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

            And Huckabee didn’t get the nomination.

          • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

            And he didn’t have any charisma. It was sad how few people were at the Denver rally.

          • JSobieski

            But I won’t argue with you on either McCain’s lack of charisma or Palin’s abundance.

            My point is. most people never heard of her until the VP nod. A lot of style is just being known and liked.

    • JSobieski

      Snark aside, and I fully acknowledge the snark. What matters to some people is a record of achievement as an executive.

      For example, Christie supports would point to his impact on government employee pensions. Daniels cut spending, privatized roads, banned government unions with an executive order, and transitioned government employees to HSAs for health coverage.

      Of all the things that you mention, NONE of them has anything to with any actual achievements as governor. Thus Palin can continue to do all the things that you are a big fan of without being President.

      A lot of people (Palin at the top of the list) can work as political mobilizers to focus attention on important issues.

      Only one person can be president at a time.

      What are Palin’s achievements as governor?

      Did spending go down?
      How about the number of government employees?
      How did she deal with unions? Did she privatize government functions?

      What are Palin’s achievements as governor?

      • azaeroprof

        like it or not, how much of that matters?

        Seriously, without consulting Wikipedia or Google, just off the top of your head:
        -What were Obama’s accomplishments as a Senator?
        -What were GWB’s accomplishments as Gov of Texas?
        -What were Bill ‘Horndog’ Clinton’s accomplishments as Gov of Arkansas?
        -What were GHW Bush’s accomplishments as Veep?
        -And even: What were RWR’s accomplishments as Gov of California?

        Yes, Sarah has one big negative on all of those mentioned, in that she did not finish her term. However, when it comes to POTUS elections, I posit that Americans don’t really give a cr*p about “accomplishments” in the previous job(s). They want someone who can articulate a philosophy of governance that they agree with, and that they can trust to make the right decisions and select the right people around them (and in 2008, the voters showed that they may not even care about that stuff all that much).

        I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but the truth is that probably 1 voter in 500 will really investigate the “record” of any candidates running. The whole thing is about perception and charisma. Case in point: Mitt Romney. In my real life (that is, away from RedState), I am THE most politically-minded person I know. Yet I could not tell you one thing outside of RomneyCare that Mittster did as Governor of Massachusetts. And he has run for president already!

        We can have these nice debates here about “qualifications”, “accomplishments”, etc etc. But in the end, we have to acknowledge that the voters at large don’t care or even want to know about these things. Now, Sarah may fall flat on her face even in this regard in the primaries or general, but her candidacy will sink or swim on her ability to campaign for president, not on any accomplishments or failures as governor.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          And IMO, Palin is nothing but a female, Republican version of BO.

        • JSobieski

          You could tell what kind of President’s they would be from their time in other positions.

          Obama did not. Romney’s record sucks.

          Once again, a Palin supporter who refuses to discuss Palin’s record.

          Why will nobody who supports Palin do some research and pull out some pro-Palin facts?

          I have no doubt that many such positive facts exist. Frankly, I would like to be convinced that Palin has a great record.

          When Reagan ran for President, people touted his support of tax cuts, spending cuts, and other results from his California days.

          Please, try to build some kind of case based on her record. Instead of locking this issue into an emotional gridlock, why not raise some facts?

          How many facts about Palin’s record are mentioned in this entire thread?

          It is emblematic of a discussion that is all heat and no light.

          • azaeroprof

            we’ve had this talk before. I would be glad to read and possibly comment on a factual diary about Palin’s record. (Though, keep in mind that “analysis” of a record can be spun a variety of ways to fit the analysts pre-conceived opinions of a person.)

            If you re-read my post, you will see that I never said these people didn’t have records. I never said that their records weren’t indicative of how they would govern (though I would agree with that only to a point. Most of our great presidential successes and failures were people to either rose to the job, or failed to, regardless of what they had done before.).

            My point is simply that the vast vast majority of voters will not base their decision on any real record.

          • JSobieski

            Many swing voters will make their decisions based on record of accomplishment. Truly ideological voters won’t care about that in the general election (i.e. I voted for McCain in 2008).

            Forget about the majority of voters for a second, and focus on the majority of PERSUADABLE SWING VOTERS.

          • azaeroprof

            most of the “persuadable swing voters”, especially in 2012 when most opinions about Obama will be solidified well in advance, will be the idiots that you see on Leno’s Jaywalking. I can’t envision a single voter thinking: “I don’t like Obama, but I can’t vote for Palin because she didn’t really advance the natural gas pipeline in Alaska”, or “I want to vote for Mitch Daniels over Obama, but the Indiana state government increased its payroll by 11% during his time as governor.”

            (BTW, I made that last number up, so don’t quote me!)

          • JSobieski

            that being said, how about treating the Republican primary voter with a bit more credence and acknowledging that within the party (and here at RS), substantive records matter.

            So a question about Palin’s record or a comparison of her record to someone else’s record should not result in screaming (all caps), RINO labeling, and other non substantive comments.

            At least here, why not focus on the facts?

          • azaeroprof

            This is the perfect place to have those discussions. And I agree that it should be done in civility. And there are several ON BOTH SIDES (oops, my finger slipped on the shift key!) who resort to screaming, name-calling, etc. That is unproductive no matter who it is for/against.

            But, and this something I struggle with given my predisposition to logic and reason, there is also nothing wrong with an emotional argument for/against a candidate. If I asked my wife, for example, to post a diary on RS, it would probably be of that nature. And it would arrogant of me to discredit her opinion just because she based it on a different style of thought than me.

        • JSobieski

          Perot attacked him at length based on Arkansas statistics. Clinton did have a story to tell about increasing education and developing the Arkansas economy. Not a story Republicans would agree with, but there were some data points that people discussed.

          When Reagan ran in 1980, people wanted him to do for the US what he did for California. He talked about a record of reducing unemployment and getting budgets balanced, and used his California record as evidence that he could do it.

          What did Palin accomplish in Alaska?

          Did she cut budgets? Cutting state budgets is easier than cutting federal budgets, so if she didn’t succeed in Alaska, what makes you think she can succeed in DC?

          Did she reduce the number of state employees? Again, this is easier to at the state level.

          At some point in the general election, people will care about these things. Especialy given the debacle that is Obama, I suspect swing voters are going to focus alot on a record of accomplishment given that their past error was to ignore that attribute.

          I don’t see any of the pro-Palin folks citing any positive facts. Instead they say she is more experienced than Obama (I agree), that she makes gutsy political calls (I agree), and that she inspires people (I agree).

          None of those facts relate to her actual record as a governor.

          • azaeroprof

            until after I posted above. I don’t disagree with what you say, except that I don’t think people will really delve into any candidate’s record the way you say. They may pay attention to overall perceptions, but it will depend on whose spin they want to believe. And that goes for Palin, Romney, Barbour, Huckabee or whoever else is running.

            Believe me, I wish it were otherwise, but that is the American electorate today.

          • JSobieski

            If accomplishments ever mean anything (and I think they always mean something), they mean something now.

            People understand that talk is cheap. They thought Obama could fix things, and he hasn’t. Voters are plenty aware that politicians can claim things that they can’t do.

            Governors with a record of reducing unemployment are the front runners.

          • azaeroprof

            in a perfect world. But ultimately, talk is what will get the next president elected (and the next one after that, the next one after that, etc).

            Another point: Remember that Governors are judged (and therefore govern) by a different set of standards than a president. As Conservatives, we want our officials at levels of government closer to the voters to be more activist than we do as president. While we still want fiscal responsibility, we would probably be happy with governors (and mayors, etc) who increased government services if those services were being taken over by state and local governments from the feds.

            I also have a hard time giving too much credit to any politician for reducing OR increasing unemployment, unless these trends can be directly attributed to a change in the business climate. These are largely cyclical trends outside of the control of the government (and largely should be). But given your last sentence, Rick Perry should be your man (and I could definitely get behind him without much trouble!).

          • JSobieski

            Look, apples to apples comparisons are difficult. All we are asking for is a factual discussion.

            More logic, a bit less emotion.

          • azaeroprof

            and I am a native Hoosier (though Boilermaker by the grace of God!). But can you point to anything specific that Daniels has done that kept unemployment low? And as Conservatives, we’re not supposed to want politicians that interfere with the market, right? Just to create a fair and unhindered opportunity for the free market to work. But that actually makes my point. We *want* a mayor who brings businesses to town. We *sorta want* a governor who does the same. But we sure don’t want a president who *creates* jobs. We just want a president who gets government’s hands off the market so it can work.

            And, hey, I’m an engineer, so I’m all for logic over emotion! I’m commenting on the reality of the situation, not what I want to see!

          • aesthete

            by eliminating government programs and regulation which, on net, increase unemployment through inefficiency, in pursuit of another goal, etc. Haley Barbour, for example, passed a tort reform measure which encouraged businesses to go to MI, ditto many of the reformed former Warsaw Pact nations. Efficient markets tend to have low unemployment, and generally speaking (though not in all cases), free markets *are* efficient markets. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with emphasizing the practicality of free markets, as opposed to their morality: both are equally valid, and reinforcing, arguments. BTW, nice to see you back here, azaeroprof.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            remove unemployment benefits after a short time. no extensions. It is amazing how quickly the average person finds a job after their benefits run out.

            (and yes, I am guilty of this myself at one time, so I know what I am talking about)

          • aesthete

            ~50% of people on UB get jobs within a week of having benefits expire. About 85% get jobs within the month.

          • azaeroprof

            It’s been nice to have a few days off so I have time to read and comment! I’m with you on the policy discussion. You’ll get no disagreement from me on Haley Barbour and his experience and competence. I do, however, have trouble seeing the American public electing an old, fat, white guy with a Mississippi drawl as president. I’m all for him either as veep or chief of staff or something like that. Or even a return gig as RNC chair.

            My point on unemployment is that macro trends will generally drown out any effect from the kinds of policies you mention. So judging a governor strictly on the basis of their state’s unemployment rate is risky at best.

          • aesthete

            I don’t necessarily have a problem with a Gov touting his state’s unemployment rate if he can justify it, though, nor with justifying free market policies on the basis of their positive effects on employment and economic health.

          • acat

            Barbour/Palin or Daniels/Palin ticket would make sense.

            This would give Palin exactly the executive experience I find her to be lacking, and would let Barbour or Daniels do the initial hard-right jolt that’s going to be needed. (Reagan did the same in his first term, eh?) Unlike the normal “veep-as-red-meat-thrower”, the President is the one pitching the red meat – executive order to end public employee unions, forex – while the Veep is the nuts-and-bolts person.

            This would give Palin the experience to be a two-termer, throwing verbal barbs and in general keeping the ship going in the Right direction while building up the numbers of Conservative Republicans in the House and Senate and state houses.

            Just a thought.

            Mew

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            we need somebody who can “work” the Congress. It won’t be the same person and Palin doesn’t fit either of those bills.

          • JSobieski

            Why people presume that repealing Obamacare would be easier than say Bush succeeding in getting a 5% private account option for SS is beyond me.

            The President will need to work the Congress. Experience in succeeding with the legislature is another reason why one has to care about executive experience and a record of executive accomplishment.

          • acat

            …went overseas on trade missions to see what Indiana could sell.

            …made it easier for businesses to open factories in Indiana by cutting red tape and lowering taxes.

            …encouraged a distributed network of factories in small cities throughout the state instead of putting all the eggs in Gary’s broken basket. (in the 1950s and 1960s, the industrial strength of Indiana was in the steel mills in Gary – this ended in the 1970s and 1980s.. Gary has yet to recover)

            …sold off state-owned infrastructure and used the proceeds to reduce taxes and deficits, see above.

            Mew

      • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

        Palin did a lot to develop Alaska’s national resources, and cut through a lot of corruption. She got a pipeline built that had been stalled for years. Who better than someone who will get a REAL energy economy going in America? Do your homework.

        • JSobieski

          Construction on the infamous pipeline has not begun, and the beginning is not in sight.

          Homework applies to both sides.

          So if by saying “She got a pipline built” you actually meant “She TALKED about getting a pipeline built” –you are 100% correct!

  • swami7774

    Palin was Quayle-ized. She’s not really done anything to undo that, if it can be undone. She has a rock-solid core of about 38%, and very little apart from that. And she would gin up turnout on the other side.
    You have to have SOME modicum of electability.
    She’s best doing what she’s doing–being a spokeswoman and fundraiser for the conservative cause.

    • roguebeaver

      Besides, she hasn’t done anything to indicate a run. I will be bold and say that she’s using the same playbook Cuomo used in ’92 and Gore in ’04: drop hints all year while the media continues to obsess, and then “no, I’m not running.” She has not been to Iowa for political reasons (excluding book tours- which I don’t count as presidential-political) in over 2 years except for that Reagan speech back in September. No courting of GOP operatives. The talented ones, 6 months from now, will be working for Branstad, other presidential candidates and as Congressional staffers. She has made no visits to NH, which is solid Romney territory. She has every right to run and make her case, but she doesn’t appear to be running for POTUS at the moment.

      • http://redmerrimack.blogspot.com/ charliebravoNH

        Her star will fade fast if she doesn’t run just like it did for Cuomo. She is not holding political office so all the hype surrounding her will drop off quickly if she stays out.

        She has hinted that she will run and her family has been in the media spot light lately on their terms. Karl Rove the other night on Fox pointed out that the three towns in Iowa she is visiting on her book tour had strategic value for someone running for the GOP nomination.

        As far as NH is concerned Romney essentially is a local candidate. He was the keynote speaker at the State GOP Convention in September. That doesn’t mean Palin couldn’t do well here. John McCain and Kelly Ayotte are tied in well with people who could head up her operation in NH. When it comes to volunteers she wouldn’t have a problem getting volunteers in NH.

        I beleive her father was right when he said she was “reloading”. over a year ago.

        • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

          And one other reason. She wants to break the glass ceiling. And wouldn’t that be a delightful slap in the face to liberals, that the first woman to become president would be a conservative?

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            We don’t elect people to slap others in the face. Dems did that, we got Obama. We do it, the result will be the same because the candidate is cut from the same cloth.

          • rsexteriors

            All you do is jump around and bad mouth her every chance you get.

            To compare her to Obama is laughable and just shows what in idiot you are.

            She is the ONLY Republican candidate out there stating her policy beliefs and taking it to the left. I posted many links about to one of your bullsh_t comments and all you could say was “I’m not going to argue point by point” — meaning you know your WRONG and can’t meaningfully refute her as a good qualified Conservative candidate so you’ll just keep making snide remarks and stating lies about her in the hopes that you can influence people not to support her.

            Sounds just like what the media, the left and the blue bloods have been doing for two years.

            How about YOU go back up and refute her policy positions one by one and show us all how SMART you are and how DUMB she is..

            WAITING WAITNG WAITING

          • Tbone

            LOL

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            You’d never write anything this stupid.

          • aesthete

            No, she is the only one you’ve heard stating policy beliefs and taking it to the Dems. There is a difference between the two.

            “How about YOU go back up and refute her policy positions one by one and show us all how SMART you are and how DUMB she is.”

            We already have had this argument. If she runs, we’ll have it again. At this point, there’s no need (especially since we’ll just have to do it again in the future for other inquisitive Palin fans in the future). Suffice it to say that, currently, Palin’s actions are good for the conservative movement, and that a future Presidency might not be.

          • acat

            We’re going to go through it every couple weeks until someone sews up the nomination.

            Mew

          • JSobieski

            Record of achievement? Far harder. I would suggest that all of you Palin fans out there actually outline what her accomplishments as governor actually were.

            I am no blue blood and I am no leftist. I am a conservative who applies reason to evaluate candidates and situations.

            At best, Palin’s record of accomplishment is thin.

          • powertothepeople

            to convince them J as they can not be told her poo stinks just like everyone else and they have no interest in hearing her dismal record as an elected official.

            They are just like the Obama minions, they cry at her words and have to be held up less then pass out from being in the presence of their god. No one can show them otherwise.

          • JadedByPolitics

            NO you are nothing better then a flame thrower, if you have nothing to add of a positive nature in this diary STAY OUT! No one is slobbering over her, they are making the case for her just like you will come here and make the case for some other Republican and trust me you will not like what others have to say about your candidate when that time comes. You don’t like her? then stay out of diaries about her. Or better yet write your own diary and lets see what happens to that diary.

          • JSobieski

            and the most important similarity is that neither really considers a record of executive achievement to be an important prerequisite for the most important executive position on the planet.

            There is a reason why in the modern world legislators make lousy President’s. Being an executive is a different job, a different skill set then voting yey or ney.

            When will Palin supporters start touting her record as a governor over touting her record as a political organizer?

            Are you looking for the right-wing version of a community organization for President?

            Palin has more executive experience than Obama had, so I am not saying that they are equivalent. However, so many Palin supporters (1) never mention anything she actually accomplished as governor and (2) are unable to recognize that the most prominent reasons why the love Palin is for her “community organizer” activities–i.e. a political leader who endorses candidates, focuses attention on certain issues, etc.

            Frankly, I don’t think Palin supporters do even a half-hearted job defending her record. As a group, I think you would be more successful in persuading people if you cited more facts about her time in office.

            She has a record. Why not talk about it.

          • rsexteriors

            Here are a few of her accomplishments as Governor. This of course does not include her (6) years as Mayor.

            Don’t know why I even bother posting it because those with PDS will just skip over everything and go on and on with their “No expierence” bull.

            Energy and Environmental Stewardship

            - AGIA (Alaska Gasline Inducement Act). During the Palin administration, TransCanada and Exxon formed an alliance to build a natural gas pipeline from Alaska to the Lower 48. Under Governor Palin?s governance, the project was expanded and revised from what previous governors had proposed with an open policy process for the Alaskan people. More progress was made on this effort than in the previous 30 years. This is the largest private sector infrastructure project in North American history and helps put us on the path to energy independence.

            - Her administration opened up drilling for oil and natural gas at Pt. Thompson for the first time in decades

            - She created the Alaska?s Petroleum Integrity Office to oversee all aspects of energy development and to make sure oilfield equipment was safe to operate and a Climate Change Subcabinet to comprehensively and honestly evaluate climate change

            Fiscal Conservatism

            - She reduced spending in her budget for Fiscal Year 2010 by more than one billion dollars from the previous governor?s Fiscal Year 2007 budget, a 9.5% real reduction in spending. Her FY2010 budget was $10.57 billion compared to Governor Murkowski?s FY2007 budget of nearly $11.7 billion. At the same time, she fulfilled her campaign promise to forward fund education, allowing districts greater flexibility and predictability in their planning.

            - Total reduction in spending between 2007 and 2010: A whopping 9.5% or $1,127,400,000

            - She reduced earmark requests for the state of Alaska by 80% during her administration, requesting only earmarks that would benefit the country as a whole.

            - She invested $5 billion in state savings.

            - She sold the private jet purchased by the previous governor

            - She drove herself from Wasilla to her office in Anchorage. She also dismissed the governor?s personal chef stationed in Juneau, Alaska?s capital.

            10th Amendment Advocacy

            - Her administration sued the federal government for placing the polar bear on the endangered species list, as this restriction affected energy development which would increase energy costs.

            - She signed Alaska?s Clear and Equitable Share (ACES) bill into law. The Alaska constitution states that the Alaskan people own the oil and other resources. This law ensures that the “owners”, the people of Alaska, receive a clear and equitable share of oil profits.

            Transparency / Anti Corruption

            - She signed bipartisan ethics reform legislation into law that helped to hold both the legislative and executive branches accountable.

            - She put the state checkbook online, allowing all constituents to see how state money was being spent.

            - She introduced health care transparency legislation which aimed at putting information in the hands of consumers about cost and quality of health care as a way to make health care consumer driven and accessible.

            Positions Held while Governor

            - Chairman of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission.

            - Vice Chair of the National Governors Association Natural Resource Committee.

            - She served as chair of the Alaska Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska?s most valuable non-renewable resources: oil and gas. She was elected by her peers to serve as president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. In this role, she worked with local, state and federal officials to promote solutions to the needs of Alaska?s communities.

            - She exposed legal violations and conflicts of interest of Alaska Republican leaders, including the former state Attorney General and the State GOP Chairman (who was also an Oil & Gas Commissioner), who was doing work for the party on public time and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail. Several went to jail.

          • JSobieski

            Becker has repeatedly suggested that the pipeline is not on the pathway to getting built. Do you have any data on that?

            One problem with the budget figures is the impact of oil prices. I am not sure exactly how Alaska accounts for the oil revenues, but I believe that the budget data should be normalized for oil price fluctuations. I don’t know how the accounting is done on this, but I sure wish someone would explain it.

          • azaeroprof

            at this point. Becker says it won’t be built because that’s what Art said. Art may eventually be proven correct, but it’s hard to look at the facts of that situation without acknowledging that Palin moved the process farther forward than it had been at any previous time. Whether you count that as an “accomplishment” if the pipeline is still in limbo probably depends on whether you like Palin or don’t like Palin.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I said, and have repeatedly said, nothing’s been done but toss money to a Canadian firm.

          • aesthete

            First of all, state spending increased astronomically during Palin’s brief tenure as Gov, according to AK’s OMB: this is well-known, well-documented, and neither Palin nor her “people” have attempted to refute this (if I recall, the excuse from her staff was that the 90s were crunch time, and that they were catching up on lost infrastructure). I spent about 2 hrs some months ago with azaeroprof going through the data, and I have no intention of doing so again, so here’s a handy summary via USA Today. I have no idea where you’re getting your numbers from, but they’re flat-out wrong (my guess is that they didn’t add supplemental bills, which were quite large, or looked at something other than operating budgets).

            Your number for earmarks is also wrong, but neither here nor there: when the federal government owns more of the state than the AK state government, they should expect to pay for things in the state, so I don’t think that Palin was necessarily wrong in asking for earmarks.

            Not sure how punitively taxing corporations to redistribute the proceeds “equitably” to people who did nothing to earn it is in any way conservative. If one wants to make the argument that it is part of AK’s unique character, one can do so, but it’s pretty similar to the argument Romney supporters give for why RomneyCare really was conservative. This tax scheme is on the verge of being repealed by Palin’s successor a mere four years after it was instituted, largely because development is stalled under ACES’ tax scheme.

            Given that this new ethics bill instituted the provisions that caused Palin to flee in the first place, I’m not sure it’s the smashing success that you seem to think it is.

            AGIA has not happened yet. All that has happened so far is that the AK government has given a sizeable chunk of money to a Canadian corp. We’ll see where it goes.

            The rest is superficial (though I would like to know more about the transparency bits for health care that she passed).

          • powertothepeople

            get past your incessant need to slobber all over Palin, even to the point it would be considered stalking if it was anyone else, please do not respond to my post.

            Why is it so many of you fine debaters, posters, writers, etc become so inept at any kind of response other than an elementary play yard “leave my mommy alone” type of response the moment someone challenges the almighty Palin?

            And maybe you missed the point of a blog Jaded. It is not to post a story from one side and only have like minded people discuss it, it is to be a place where all sides bang out a debate, state their opinions and then move on the next topic. And since I have seen you express opposite views many times on this site, how about you try to not be such a hypocrite next time. But I do understand your hypocrisy, Palin love does that even to the most rational of people.

          • jerry39

            in critizing a few of you anti-Palin posters when you ignore the list of accomplishments provided a few posts above and continue to rant about Paln supporters slobbering over her. It is not to say that you are not conservative, or dont support conservative candidates when you are being compared to the MSM/Rino attackers of Palin, but it is to say that your tactics start to look a lot like their tactics. The whole slobbering, tent revivial, protect your mommy meme shares the anti-religous, anti-flyover, passive aggressive sexism that is so often directed at Palin. It seems to become your whole point to marginalize Palin supporters.

            Just saying, I have been going up and down this post leaning this way and that as to Palin and the arguments like this post start to look like a parody of the thing they are critiziing.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            All that’s going on here is a tent revival meeting. Her supporters have degenerated into accusing people who have a problem with her “experience” of being “haters”. That’s an ObamaIcon Defense.

            Then you’ve got a guy saying that short term stays on RGA committees counts as experience. And coming up with budget and spending numbers that are simply wrong.

            You can expect that when the best you can come up with for defense of a candidate is to go after the people who are pointing out that there are real problems that need to be addressed and refer to policy statements and ignore her actual work product there will be disagreement. And, contrary to your assertion, “slobbering” over her is all that’s going on here on the pro-Sarah side. If you don’t want to be challenged on her qualifications and experience then you really should be posting at “Conservatives4Palin”. They’ve had an unhinged tent meeting going over there for a couple of years.

            Sarah Palin has done a great job of poking BO, of throwing red meat to the base and of raising money. Obama was really good at those things too. She’s a good stump speaker, so was he. She has some statements on policy, so did he. Her executive experience is questionable, his was non-existent. Her ability to work with members of her own party on legislation is poor, his was pretty good.

            Bottom line, we’re gonna need a hard core executive who can work the Congress and unite all the people – except the far Left – behind an agenda of Constitutional reform. There is nothing in Palin’s background that says she is up to that task. Could she excite Republicans? Some of them, maybe even a lot of them. But that is NOT enough to get the job done. She’s done a poor job of communicating with independents and, as Barack knows, you lose them, you lose all the marbles.

          • JadedByPolitics

            Does Mitt, Huckabee EVER Endorse Before The Person Is A Known Quantity?, Nope, They Are Finger Waver Endorsers

            Her record of accomplishments well exceed what she has done in office. What she has done for the Conservative Movement cannot be measured, it is that big.

          • JSobieski

            For many of the years in which she was alive, Mother Theresa was the most prominent and effective Catholic on the planet.
            Sorry, but a President is far more than political instincts and endorsing candidates.

            Government spending under Palin? Did it go up or down? By how much? Why?

            How many government employees were there when she started? How many when she left?

            What did she do to curtail unions? What executive orders did she issue?

            The fact that NOBODY talks about her record raises lots of red flags.

          • rsexteriors

            with many of you that have PDS.

            Your analogy smacks of that of male chauvinist.

            You actually compare Palin for President to Mother Theresa for Pope. You know in the Catholic Religion that only MEN can be Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and POPE.

            So I can ASS-U-Me that you are saying no matter how much experience Palin has that she will NEVER be qualified for a MALE ONLY position.

            Here is an answer to your first question.

            Government spending under Palin

            - Total reduction in spending between 2007 and 2010: A whopping 9.5% or $1,127,400,000

            Now instead of talking about the “Red Flags” go out and do some research on your own instead of just repeating the same old stuff. The reason no one is talking about her accomplishments (in the media) is because they DO NOT want anyone knowing about her accomplishments.

          • JSobieski

            What was Palin’s first budget? What was her last budget? Did the legislature pass her proposed budget? What were the compromises?
            How much of the 9.5% is simply the result of oil prices going up?

            I am honestly interested in these questions. I could very much end up being a Palin voter. Why not present the positive facts with links?

            I acknowledge that the Mother Theresa comment wasn’t a good analogy. The point however was that the Presidency of the United States is about far more than being an effective political speaker.

            The Presidency is not a community organizer position.

          • aesthete

            supported by the man. Only men who beat their wives after coming back from their jobs at the construction site on their Harleys would care about things like “facts” (when they’re not busy getting drunk and demanding sandwiches, that is).

            In all seriousness, why do Palin sycophants insist on making sincere critics into the mustachioed villains of a Lifetime TV movie? (Insert standard differentiation between “sycophants” and “supporters” here.)

          • jerry39

            … it might be that you are calling them sycophants, which tends obfiscate your preffered title of “sincere critic.”

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            a “gifted political speaker” she often puts her foot in her mouth, her voice is a little irritating, and she does not have an easy command of issues. Instead she speaks in homilies. And on top of that she has huge negatives.

            It is a bit infuriating that because she was attacked by the press and unfairly ridiculed we are now supposed to look past all of her problems and support her unconditionally.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            From my comment above

            As far as her fiscal conservatism, here are the Alaska fiscal budgets:

            Baseline 7/1/06 – 06/30/07: Not her budget, she inherited this one? $13.9B.
            7/1/07 – 6/30/08: Palin?s first budget? $16.1B. Increase of $2.2B or 15.8%.
            7/1/08 – 6/30/09: Palin?s last budget? $18.0B. Increase of 1.9B or 11.8%.
            Total for both Palin budgets: increase of $4.1B or 29.5% over the incoming budget.

            AK actual expenditures for the same period?
            06-07 Baseline: $8.6B.
            07-08: $9.7B, an increase of $1.1B or 12.7%.
            08-09: $11.5B, an increase of $1.8B or 18.5%.
            Total for Palin?s term in office: increase of $2.9B or 33.7%

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            Seems to be the method of the Sarah defenders. Call them RINOS, sexists, and media lovers. Some of us conservatives who have been loyal conservatives longer than the “First Dude” has, have some serious questions about Sarah and most of us think that her cutting and running from her responsibilities was the last straw.

            And, I will add that while I dont like her no matter if she were male or female, I will add that we just played “one of these presidents doesnt look like the other” game in the first time in this countries’ history. Forgive me if I think we ought to go back to the middle aged white guy thing, if for no other reason but to fix all this “history” we are making right now.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            I was a great admirer of Margaret Thatcher, and I would love to see Michelle Bachman as a candidate. But you know what those two figures have in common? They didn’t quit in the middle of a term. That is something Palin will NEVER overcome in politics, don’t make light of it.

          • jerry39

            I think a good question is whether you or any other conservative believes in hindsight it was the right choice for the country? In other words, do you value the impact SP had on the midterms and beyond for the conservative movement, as greater than the possible impact she would have had remaining Gov. Alaska?

            It is easy to condemn her as a quitter in a vacuum, but it is hard to argue that she was wrong when compared with what she accomplished by not being gov.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            And I agree that she has had a great impact. All I am saying is that it is a huge strike against her electability. Along with the now common perception that she is not very bright. It is wrong, but it is a widely held perception.

          • jerry39

            but when framed properly it may not be a devasting strike,

          • JSobieski

            I don’t see many Romney supporters here at RS

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            And the discussion about his qualifications and experience will sound the same as this one.

            Same for Huckabee.

            Those two might not be quite so vociferous only because we destroyed what they thought passed for an “argument” in ’08.

          • JadedByPolitics

            mentioned in the diary. He and a couple of others on this site. Their opinion is no more critical to you and I then the others mentioned in the diary. The bottom line is at this moment and for TWO FULL YEARS Sarah Palin has taken it to the left. She has identified the Socialism and called it out by name. She has focused the American public in a way not seen since Reagan. She is NOT Reagan she is Sarah Palin and NO ONE in the two years since her arrival has both taken incoming from the left and shone a light on the left as brightly as she has. She has had help from Rush, Beck etc., etc., but it is she to whom the harshest criticism has been directed because she has the LARGEST following.

            When she enters the primary season, she is going to FORCE the Republicans who enter to match her stride for stride in the Conservative Movement and even if she were to lose the primary she will have yanked the rest to the RIGHT and away from that pathetic, loser middle that they all love to talk about. The middle is middle America and Conservatism is their brand of speech and when Democrat lite starts talking they start tuning out and voting for the actual Democrat.

            NO PALE PASTELS!

          • acat

            We must engage one another. To twist the ancient saying, iron remains dull when it disengages.

            I am glad Candidate Palin will be pulling the debate to the right, that’s a net win for Conservatives of all stripes, and for the country overall.

            Despite this net positive, I do not think Palin is the most qualified candidate. I have a number of reservations about her, and I’m far from alone in being a conservative with concerns about Palin.

            I would prefer to have a civil discussion on the topic, but .. that seems difficult – especially given the tone some of the pro-Palin posters in this thread have taken.

            I agree – no pastels – but I’m not convinced that means Palin.

            I presume we can discuss this with civility.

            Mew

          • JadedByPolitics

            there will be NO civility when Conservatives in my diary are compared to Obamaphiles. The bulk of Sarah Palin’s followers have been with her since August of 2008, they have been belittled and demeaned as much as she has and they will not get that in my diary. When someone cannot debate and instead goes to the irrational name calling well, they have not only lost the debate but they have lost the ability to reason, which makes them more Obamaphile then someone who has just argued for Palin.

            I have seen those arguing for her giving links to back up what they have to say as opposed to say those who come in to give them grief just throwing out staid old arguments given to them by the left and elites. Perhaps they ought to come up with something fresh, don’t you think?

          • acat

            Becker put up some polling data and brought up some valid points.

            I continue to ask that we compare Palin to some of the more experienced candidates, not just the 2008 retread clown posse of Mitt, Huck, and Newt.

            I am looking forward to what Vassar has to say on the subject, but ..
            so far, the level of debate from the pro-Sarah camp has not been persuasive to me.

            The perception, fair or not, is of a group who are so interested in defending the damsel in distress that they’re ignoring the damsels’ flaws.

            Mew

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Please. Bozo the Worshiper put up a bunch of policy statement links. When the real questions about a candidate revolve around the quality and depth of a candidate’s experience, links to policy statements are a fool’s paradise.

            Policy statements are pretty meaningless, Barack made lots of them. And has walked away from about all of them.

            As far as coming up with something fresh, she hasn’t done anything that would qualify her to run the country since she left the Governor’s job. She’s been a campaign strategist and campaigner. Now if you want to discuss whether she should replace Steele, or whether she’s done a better job than Karl Rove, those would be good discussions because she’s got a lot more relevant experience lately for both of those positions.

            As to POTUS, not so much.

          • rsexteriors

            And she will have an Army of loyal supporters, like me and you, who will go the dinstance with time, money and any other support we can give for her to win.

            While Romney and the others will mostly have to hire people to promote them

          • azaeroprof

            around the axle too much on mbecker. He is an alum of the “Art Chance (may he RIP) School of Palin Derangement”. Like Art, he may make some valid points about Palin’s record (like anybody cares, see my comment above), but always masks these comments in derisiveness towards Palin and those who like her. At least in Art’s case, about 1 comment in 100, he would occasionally say something complimentary towards Palin (usually about her political skills).

          • JSobieski

            If you want to characterize the people who are skeptical of Palin as the people who care of executive records, then you would characterize us accurately.

            Frankly I am honestly surprised that so few people apparently don’t care, and are so open in communicating that they don’t care. I am truly on the fence about Palin, but I just can’t believe how little anybody points to her career for specific accomplishments.

            I always thought the Republican party was the part of facts and reasons and the Democrat party was the party of emotion and feelings.

            The tone of Becker’s comments do not detract from the facts. When liberals call talk radio hosts like Rush or Sean, they argue with the host based on tone and not facts. Republicans . . . particularly conservatives . . should argue based on facts.

          • azaeroprof

            I’m with you 100%. And I do think the GOP is more the party of facts and reason. My comments are NOT about those of us here at RS, or even about Republicans specifically. It’s just very easy for those of us who are political activists to lose sight of how little the general public cares about the things that we think are so important.

            Since my wife doesn’t read RS (whew!), I’ll use her as an example. She is college-educated, as conservative as me (maybe more), agrees with me on practically every issue, and even consented to allow our daughter to be named Reagan. :) But she doesn’t want to read or even really know the details of any candidate’s record. Her feelings about any candidate are based on those nasty “feelings” that you mention. As a typical engineer, I have trouble with this. But her judgment on trustworthiness and human character are much stronger than mine, and when choosing a president, I must acknowledge that her approach may well be superior.

          • JSobieski

            another thing all together if we fail to present the facts, and to act in accordance with facts.

          • Jack_Savage

            For instance, Jerry Brown of CA is far more qualified, as is Russ Feingold, who happens to be looking for employment. Joe Biden is extremely qualified, but not nearly as qualified as Colin Powell. And of course, since he has been President for two years, Barack Obama would make a far, far more qualified president than Sarah Palin. I forgot about Lindsay Graham and Dick Lugar, and we might as well throw Tom Kaine and Ed Rendell in the mix.

            It is fascinating how many here stand shoulder to shoulder with Keith Olbermann on this subject. Pretty soon we will see a diary entitled “Palin – Just A Mashed Up Bag Of Meat With Lipstick”.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            is I dont think she is the most qualified Conservative to be president. And when it turns into an evaluation of ones record I dont think she is going to be the most Conservative either.

          • Jack_Savage

            Who gets your vote – a “qualified” John McCain or an “unqualified” Sarah Palin? A “qualified” Colin Powell or an “unqualified” Sarah Palin? What made Fred Thompson more qualified than Sarah Palin? What makes Mitch Daniels more qualified? Is four years governing Indiana more complex and intricate than two years governing Alaska? Since he called for a truce on social issues, are we thinking he is more electable? Would Newt Gingrich be a more qualified conservative? Mitt Romney is arguably the most “qualified” potential nominee, so why is he DOA in 2012?

            I hear plenty of Katie Couric around here, but not many viable options.

          • JSobieski

            Daniels on Day 1 issued an executive order against public employee unions

            He also privatized roads.

            Public employees in Indiana use HSAs for the health care, which both saves money and is a conservative mechanism for true health care reform.

            I believe that he has also reduced the number of people on the government payroll.

            These are all things that would be good to do in DC.

            Romney is not the most qualified candidate. He is likely the LEAST qualified candidate. The guy was governor for 4 years and did things that the Republican party may end up regretting for a 100 years. Romneycare is NOT an example of conservative accomplishment.

            Experience isn’t about a length of time, its about demonstrable results. Its hard to accomplish anything in two years. I read a lot, but I can’t come up with a quick list of Palin accomplishments like I could for Daniels. That is true despite the fact that Palin gets more press.

            Saying that you hear “plenty of Katie Couric” around here is just pure B$.

            Again, why deal with actual concerns which are so hard. Better to just mischaracterize what others are saying.

            If you can find ONE COMMENT taking a katie Couric approach, cite it.

            Otherwise, you should retract your statement and acknowledge that you are just making stuff up.

          • Jack_Savage

            Daniels is qualified to be President of the United States because he privatized roads, issued an EO outlawing public sector unions, and reduced government payrolls? In Indiana? Got it.

            Are you supporting Daniels in 2012? Because I don’t think I got an answer to that question.

            And you are correct. It’s not Katie Couric. More like Beavis and Butthead…”Palin stinks…hee hee…hee hee…yeah, she stinks…hee hee…hee..hee.”

            Sorry. That’s the way I see it.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            because if you want us to cite the reasons why, then I gotta go get an encyclopedia worth of material to show you what we mean, and frankly I would like it if we could move on to a more productive topic. But the thing is, right now as long as conservatives are saying RUN SARAH RUN, we got a major problem on our hands.

          • Jack_Savage

            I’ll save you the trouble of listing her issues – I’ll just tune in to MSNBC for a week. They’ll handle it quite well, I’m sure.

          • JSobieski

            I do think Daniel’s has some impressive accomplishments on fiscal matters. Indiana is a big outlier in a midwest economy that is so deep in the toilet it can’t even see the rim anymore. You don’t think fiscal matters will be of much importance in 2012? Cutting spending? I hear Palin talk about that stuff, but I don’t see a lot of accomplishment being cited on her behalf.

            I want to learn more about the people who run before I back someone. This isn’t a sporting even where you jump on some teams bandwagon and become a cheerleader.

            I can say that I would probably support Daniels over Palin, but I do think Daniels would need to prove himself to Social COnservatives.

            Do you think fiscal matters will be important in the 2012 elections? What about heath care?

            No governor has a better record on health care than Daniels. The use of HSAs in Indiana is a great contrast to Obama, and they work.

            HSAs are the best way to kill Obamacare. Read the link in my signture if you want to learn more.

            Otherwise, just stick with the name calling and leave the thinking for those willing to be constructive. Wouldn’t want you to get a headache.

            P.S. You might want to get some new glasses. If you had an HSA, you could use pre-tax dollars to do so. But of course, why care about HSAs–that would involve . .. thinking and stuff.

          • Jack_Savage

            Call it thinking if you want.

            And HSA’s are revolutionary. No one has ever even thought of them before. Well… before 1975. Daniels for president. Cutting spending when your state constitution requires a balanced budget? Courageous. Selling your highways to a private company with few restrictions, then bragging that the proceeds from the mortgage balanced the budget? Very good.

            A very, very easy game. I am beginning to like it. Who’s your second choice?

          • JSobieski

            I listed several. You seem more interested in just insulting people.

            HSAs are the key to repealing Obamacare. That is my number 1 priority.

            What is your number 1 priority?

            What is your solution for healthcare?

            Do you know if Palin ever did anything with respect to Healthcare while governor?

            Do you care about any of these questions?

          • Jack_Savage

            Saying you are against someone is easy. A drunk monkey can do it. I channeled a drunk monkey, and was able to do it. That is the entire point. It is easy as pie to pick apart someone, and goodness knows it was done here in spades in 2008, before anyone had even given Sarah Palin a second thought. I don’t confuse that with serious, rational discussion. I equate it to throwing spitballs.

            Fiscal issues are my #1 priority, and always have been, but I can concentrate on more than one thing at a time. Here is the situation, though – fiscal sanity is not hard. You spend less than you make. That’s it. No Nobel Prize required. No three term governorship necessary. Just a small calculator, the stones to make tough decisions – like Christie, by the way – and the savvy to sell the cuts.

            Who has what it takes? That’s the question.

          • JSobieski

            You say being against someone is easy. Well what are Palin’s primary accomplishments at this point besides talking against Obama. I lover her for it, but talk is cheap, actions are hard.

            You say that Palin will be a conservative President. Prove it. What does her record show?

            I am not throwing spitballs at Palin. I am encouraging pro-Palin people to provide specific facts about her record. Talk is cheap, actual accomplishments are not.

            Did Palin institute spending cuts? Do you know? What did she cut? What did the legislature fight her on?

            The Presidency is a whirl wind. If someone can’t be effective as a governor, they won’t get better as President. The record as governor is almost certainly going to be a cap on Presidential performance.

            If someone isn’t a budget cutter before they get to DC, they won’t become one after they get there.

            I am not convinced that Palin is an accomplished budget cutter. I don’t have to pick a candidate now, so I won’t.

            I think for example that Barbor has a suprior track record to Palin on fiscal matters.

          • Jack_Savage

            If I were advising Sarah Palin, I would advise her not to run in 2012 – for a number of reasons.
            I agree with you on Barbour, but I will say that either Sarah Palin is a fiscal, social and defense conservative or she is the biggest liar that ever walked this earth. I choose the former.

          • acat
          • Jack_Savage

            You prove she isn’t a conservative.

            Tag.

          • acat
          • Jack_Savage

            This is an idiotic waste of time for anyone who isn’t serving a life term in prison.

          • acat
          • acat
          • gop2010

            If you count FY 2010, which she submitted before she left office, and which cut quite a lot from 2009. $8.4 bil operating budget if I remember correctly. USA Today left it out, too, possibly because the article was written in 2008.

            http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/10_omb/budget/index_FY10_enacted_archive.htm

            The AK budget is wacky because it rises and falls with the price of oil. IIRC the operating budget went from 10.5 to 9.4 to 11 and back to 8.4. You don’t see that kind of oscillation in other state budgets because they aren’t highly dependent on revenues from a volatile commodity. She left the state with a lower budget than she arrived with. She also reorganized the way the state gets oil royalties so that the owners of the oil can share in the occasional boom revenues in the future and in bust years the producers taxes are lowered. She put a conservative flair on a relatively socialist state. (“Collective ownership of the means of production,” if you’re wondering what I meant by that.)

            Most governors, when faced with a windfall and no requirement to balance the budget, will spend it. Palin saved and cut. She made big cuts to the governor’s personal expenses and also to the state earmarks, both number and value. Not bad for 2.5 years.

          • aesthete

            There were no significant cuts during Palin’s two “good” years: on the contrary, there were significant increases in education spending and redistributionary spending. There was very little “saving” going on, which is what necessitated the cuts which manifested themselves in the 2010 budget. In point of fact, it was pressure from Republican Senate Majority Leader Gary Stevens and the budget shortfalls which precipitated these cuts, not Palin’s leadership or any wisdom in prior budgets.

            Nonetheless, thank you for addressing the actual facts of AK’s budgets, rather than ignoring them and accusing supporters of being sexist.

          • gop2010

            I did provide one, after all.

          • Scope

            or some kind of proof for the statements is critical. There have been so many “prove it” requests from the anti-Palin people here, how about those people post factual information, with links and proof, that she did so much damage to Alaska during her tenure as Governor. Links are necessary, as everyone else is required to provide links.

            I will also ask, provide proof that Palin is not a conservative. Some want proof that she is, but, how about you guys prove that she isn’t a conservative.

            This has been an exercise in asking to prove positives, while never supporting the negatives, with any links or valid information, other than some opinions.

          • acat

            Unless you’re willing to count “compassionate nanny-state-ism” as a form of conservatism.

            All of her speeches since the 2008 election have been remarkably conservative… but .. they’re just words. I’ll bet if I could hack into Obama’s teleprompter, I could get him to sound conservative too.

            The point is, the defense of the damsel is all well and good, but at some point we gotta take a look at the candidate… and I don’t see where there’s evidence that she’d govern as a conservative.

            Now, if you want to prove me wrong, you go right ahead.

            Mew

          • Scope

            I ask you to provide proof and links to prove that she is not a conservative. You guys are great at asking for info based on commenters posts, with backup to their posts. I ask that you provide any info you have to prove that Palin is not a conservative. That’s more than fair. Where is your proof that Palini s not a conservative?

          • acat

            the Alaska budget before and after Palin that mbecker posted as a reply in this very diary.

            Raising the budget less quickly than a Democrat, which is what the numbers show Palin did, is not “conservatism”, at least not as currently practiced by Chris Christie.

            And I’d make the point that New Jersey is a harder state to reign in than Alaska.

            I’ve said before, Scope, that I will support Sarah if she wins the nomination. I would like to support her. I have reservations, and am seeking some explanations.

            Mew

          • acat

            I direct you specifically to this post:

            http://www.redstate.com/jaded/2010/11/26/i-will-not-let-the-elites-decide-for-me/#comment-2341

            This is in contradiction to what gop2010 has posted.

            Please note that Becker’s post (linked above) links to another post that links to the source for his information.

            Mew

          • Tbone
          • acat

            I meant rein, as in “slow down” but .. as you say, either way it works.

            Mew

          • Scope

            Chris Christie. Christie signed a bill which “mandates a percentage of electric power sold in NJ eventually be generated by offshore windmills and offers a mix of financial assistance and $100 million in tax credits to lure companies to build the turbines.”

            http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/gov_chris_christie_signs_offsh.html

            Christie believes this project will create jobs in NJ, however, businesses who are already paying through the nose in taxes, and electricity costs, will probably move out of NJ because of the increased electric rates that will be passed on to them to pay the costs of building the project, and maintaining it. I think it has already been established that wind power is unreliable and it doesn’t add much power.

            That is not conservative by any stretch.

          • aesthete

            From Juneau Empire: “Stevens said the budget proposed by Gov. Sarah Palin in December “spends more than it brings in” at current prices, but he did not blame the governor for presenting a required budget based on official price forecasts.” IOW, Palin had no intention of lowering spending until outside events (legislators and oil prices) forced her to rechart her course.

            Here’s another story after the budget readjustments. Some choice quotes: “Palin budget director Karen Rehfeld defended the proposal. She said the bottom line is indeed $268 million less in anticipated spending — while acknowledging most of that is because the state lowered its estimate of much it would have to pay in oil tax credits.” The majority of this cut had nothing to do with Palin, and would have transpired under any Governor.

            “…a closer look shows most of that is just accounting — not cuts from how much the state would otherwise spend on programs. ‘They’re claiming a $268 million cut. The reality is it’s pretty much just a net zero proposition,’ said Anchorage Republican Rep. Mike Hawker, a budget leader in the state House.” Hawker is a Republican budget hawk, and has

            “Palin budget director Karen Rehfeld defended the proposal… [and] said slashing the budget would not be responsible.” Speaks for itself, as do her directly quoted statements.

            “So the state changed its forecast and now expects an average price of $41.17 through June. The difference translates to a budget hole over three times as deep.” Cuts in actual spending and programs would have reduced the growth of spending, but the cuts implemented do no such thing.

            BTW, Palin in no way put a conservative flair on a socialist state: though AK is indeed closer to a mixed economy, as you correctly note, Palin’s governance in no way brought conservatism to the state. Her biggest initiative in the state was a patent redistribution scheme from oil corps to people who had nothing to do with production.

          • aesthete

            Link for the second story: http://www.adn.com/2009/02/03/678110/alaska-budget-hole-is-165-billion.html

          • gop2010

            Primary sources = budget data, not he-said, she-said garbage from places like the ADN that have an axe to grind. Not to say you have an axe to grind, just that I am well aware that your source (the ADN) as well as some of their quoted sources (most of the AK republican party) do.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            As far as her fiscal conservatism, here are the Alaska Comprehensive Financial Reports: State of Alaska, Division of Finance.

            Baseline 7/1/06 – 06/30/07: Not her budget, she inherited this one? $13.9B.
            7/1/07 – 6/30/08: Palin?s first budget? $16.1B. Increase of $2.2B or 15.8%.
            7/1/08 – 6/30/09: Palin?s last budget? $18.0B. Increase of 1.9B or 11.8%.
            Total for both Palin budgets: increase of $4.1B or 29.5% over the incoming budget.

            AK actual expenditures for the same period?
            06-07 Baseline: $8.6B.
            07-08: $9.7B, an increase of $1.1B or 12.7%.
            08-09: $11.5B, an increase of $1.8B or 18.5%.
            Total for Palin?s term in office: increase of $2.9B or 33.7%

          • gop2010

            You leave out 2009/FY 2010 in all your stats. Why?

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Audited numbers wont be published for a couple of weeks.

          • gop2010
          • aesthete

            I’m highlighting six facts:

            1) Palin had no intent of reducing spending until projected incoming revenue forced her to change her plans.

            2) Other legislators were pointing out this shortfall between incoming revenue and

            3) The majority of the “cuts” in question had very little to do with Palin, and were, in fact, automatic reductions in govt spending that would have taken place regardless.

            4) Palin’s point-woman on budgetary issues argued in favor of not cutting existing benefits or programs.

            5) The budget “cuts” that she implemented were temporary, and did nothing to alleviate future budget problems, given low oil revenues (IOW, she passed the buck to Gov Parnell).

            6) The “good years” saw huge spending increases under Palin, a progressive tax and redistribution scheme, and a pipeline deal which has gone nowhere so far.

            I see these facts and come to the conclusion that Palin did as little as possible to cut government from its oil highs, and that she essentially passed the buck to Parnell. IMO, this budget shortfall is the real reason that she left AK, not ethics allegations: not much fun playing Governor when you don’t have all that oil money to play with, and less so when coming up with actual solutions requires working with a hostile legislature. (You could also view it less cynically, as that Palin decided that Parnell would have a better chance at achieving what she could not because of her divisiveness.) There is no charitable way to reconcile the rank profligacy of her first two years and the relatively minor cuts in her last year, which cut or reformed no programs (even the ones that she instituted), with her conservatism after resignation.

            If you think she governed conservatively, find me one major cut to government programs that she made that was not forced upon her.

          • gop2010

            From $356 mil in 2008 to $227 mil in 2009 to $87 mil in 2010.

            Earmarks are hard to find primary source info on, so here’s the database to look through and the ADN summary. (They don’t give Palin any credit for the reduction, natch.)

            http://www.adn.com/2010/02/21/1150433/congress-changes-cut-state-earmarks.html
            http://taxpayer.net/search_by_category.php?action=view&proj_id=2789&category=&type=Project

          • aesthete

            Can’t say that I care too much about earmarks or where state governmet stands on them, but credit where credit is due.

          • JSobieski

            Moreover, I did not mischaracterize your positions.

            I did however respond in kind, with far more substance that you contributed.

            This isn’t a game, but nobody can’t stop you from treating it as such.

          • Jack_Savage

            “…leave the thinking for those willing to be constructive. Wouldn?t want you to get a headache.

            P.S. You might want to get some new glasses. If you had an HSA, you could use pre-tax dollars to do so. But of course, why care about HSAs?that would involve . .. thinking and stuff.”

            Remember that one? Respect and substance – or was it substance and respect. It’s hard for me to tell. Will I care after I press “Reply To This”? No. Let’s not get into the “they were mean to me” conversation, OK?

          • JSobieski

            I never denied that I responded in kind. You did start it.

          • Jack_Savage

            But to prove a point, which was that anyone can win the “she / he is unqualified, and if you don’t think so, prove it” game. The next time I happen to spot that sort of thread regarding Palin, I’ll do it again. I’ll even give away the playbook:

            - OK – you hate Palin, who are you for?
            - Really? I think they are unqualified because of x, y and z. or
            No one? Are you that shallow and thoughtless?
            - Haha, I win.

            Simple. It is much easier than fighting liberals, which is what Sarah Palin is doing.

          • JSobieski

            So asking questions is out of bounds? Or in your view, makes me the target of derision?

            I have repeatedly said that I could (depending on who else was running) end up voting for Palin based on what I currently know.

            I know she is not a Romney or a Huckabee. Their records are quite negative in my view.

            So once again, you mischaracterize what I say, what I stand for, and what I am trying to do.

            Thanks.

          • Jack_Savage

            I am saying it is very, very easy to zero in on a supporter of a particular candidate and come up with a list of grievances against that candidate, then ask them to prove a negative. It’s even easier when you support no one yourself. I have no tolerance for that type of argument, and it goes on here all the time WRT Palin.

            What I will engage in is a debate on the merits of the positions a candidate takes. The fact that they have not, for example, negotiated a nuclear arms treaty – a position that most governors are in – does not disqualify them for the position of President. That is the type grievance that really irritates me, because when it comes down to it, who on earth has the experience and qualifications to be president outside of an ex-president?

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            both, or the best combination of both. The Dems picked a candidate that had the best idealogy for the liberals but very weak qualifications. He may have won the election but I think everyone can now agree that his inexperience is costing him as he tries to govern. We are better than they are and we dont want to make that mistake.

          • Jack_Savage

            But Obama’s flaw is not that his ideology was not good for liberals, but it was not good for the country.

            It seems to me that the most qualified in the GOP are the least conservative, and vice versa. We need to determine which we will move on…

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            with the point that ultimately the most conservative candidate’s postions are the best for the country but is it going to be realistic? But what if our candidate becomes President on the slate of “abolish abortion, the IRS (flat tax), education department and phasing out social security”. Well great and I would go nuts if they could pull any of those off. But as clueless Obama keeps talking about a carbon tax, those ideas are not feasible in this current climate so we would be better off with a candidate that would list some goals that were much more attainable.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            in two more years our fiscal situation might be so grim that the American people will be ready for almost any sort of reform.

            At that time, someone who truly has a reform agenda, or plan, and can articulate it will be the one who steps forward as the best candidate.

          • JSobieski

            This is the kind of dialogue we should have here at RS.

            Do you think Barbour, Perry, and Daniels are RINOs? You seem reluctant to consider any R governors except for Palin.

          • Jack_Savage

            I love Perry and Barbour, slightly shaky on Daniels but will listen to a case being made, more shaky on Jindal, don’t much like Pawlenty. We go deep on the governor’s bench. I think all our Senators, with two or three exceptions, are worth a cold bucket of spit.

          • JSobieski

            shouldn’t the various people who have chosen sides be providing arguments, reasons, facts, etc in support of their candidate.

            Reagan campaigned on what he did for California. His record was not irrelevant.

            Not sure why me asking questions made me the target for your derision. If RS is not an open forum for good faith discussion, what is it for?

            Anyway, I am done for the day. This was truly pointless.

          • Jack_Savage

            And I will leave you with this to ponder. In Reagan’s time as governor, what would have led you to believe he would have toppled the Soviet Union and freed tens of millions of people? Did he work toward that goal as governor? Or did you know where he stood by what he said, and had faith that when the time came to make a decision, he would make the correct one on the basis of his stated principles?

            Or in other words, did you believe he would do what he said he would do? And does it come down to any more than that, when all is said and done?

            Don’t get bent out of shape over my comments. They were not meant as derisive, and were not meant to be personal. They were meant to illustrate a type of argument that I find mean and absurd, which was best done by me being mean and absurd. We agree on most things, including the importance of repealing Obamacare and the role of HSA’s.

          • acat

            Reagan completed two terms in California.

            Sarah completed half a term in Alaska.

            Reagan’s terms in Cali were no picnic either – had to send national guard troops into Berkeley at one point. I don’t recall Palin having that level of domestic problems.

            Look, she talks a great game, and if she wins the nomination, I’ll back her, but .. until then, her record of actually doing the job is not so hot, and there are others (Barbour, Daniels, Cain) who have a better jacket at this point.

            If she wins the nomination, I’m all in to get her to the White House, but .. I need to know she’s more than a pretty face saying the right words.

            Mew

          • Jack_Savage

            The point being made was that Reagan’s time as governor of CA did not give us any foreshadowing of his dismantling of the USSR.

            In no way, shape or form was I, have I, or will I equate Sarah Palin – or anyone else – to Ronald Reagan.

          • JSobieski

            There was lots of foreshadowing there.

            Folks from the eastern block (like my parents) knew who Reagan was. Nobody else was considered to be in his category.

            Did they think the USSR would fall so quickly? No.

            But Reagan had a record of beating the communists.
            And be record, I don’t mean giving speaches. I mean kicking their @$$es out the union and wrestling control away from the Alinsky types.

          • Jack_Savage

            I will defer to your parents on this one.

          • acat

            Unless you’d care to cite something in Palin’s record that shows she governed Alaska as a conservative.

            Not just an “outsider” to the old boy network. I’ll grant that.
            Not just a “Republican”. That’s kinda obvious.

            What *conservative* actions did she take, when given a choice?

            Reagan sent the national guard into Berkeley to put down protests.
            Reagan sent the CHP in to end riots.
            Did Palin have any of that to deal with?

            Reagan ran Cali during the first of the oil crises. Successfully.
            Reagan released a number of his conservative speeches and letters before and during his time as governor.

            Palin? Her conversion to conservatism seems to have happened after she left office.

            Candidate Palin is a force to be reckoned with, true. She does not have the executive experience to be the second coming of Reagan. Not yet.

            Mew

          • gop2010

            What state did he govern?

          • powertothepeople

            made one automatically fit to be president. Clinton would love to know that.

            I do not agree with the vetting of Cain just like I do not agree with the Palin fans, although for different reasons. But the one thing Cain has in an advantage over Palin is he is not so disliked amongst so many republicans and independents which would be a key factor her being able to win. If you can not take a large portion of the independent vote, you do not win. If we do not win, we get another 4 of Obama. Unless Palin is able to change the minds of the many who do not like her, she may win the republican nomination,but she will lose the big game. And that is something we can not afford just because some want to push a lady on the masses that has a dismal record as a politician. The best thing she could do and the thing she does so well, is look at all the candidates in the field, she should choose one who is a true conservative, and then put her money raising power behind them. Maybe even join the ticket via VP or as SG, but presidential candidate, not a good thing no matter how many times you all try to say it is.

            Cain is unknown outside of the South, mainly the Carolinas and Georgia, and that is something that will keep him from winning. But being gov or not being gov is not what makes one fit to be president.

          • gop2010

            I have heard of this person only because his name is tossed around as an alternative presidential candidate. What did he do that makes him qualified for the presidency? I have been told often enough that attitude and policy positions are not sufficient for th highest office in the land. So what organization has he led?

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            A number people at RedState who weren’t at the RedState Gathering don’t know who he is and what his background is – and have been asking.

          • acat

            If your google-fu is strong enough, you can seek him out yourself.

            Mew

          • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

            I have no desire in supporting someone without a proven government executive track record.

          • JSobieski

            Nobody is saying that an executive record of liberal accomplishment is what we are looking for. What we are looking for is a record of conservative accomplishment.

            I realize that it is far easier for you to just mischaracterize what others say. Create a straw man. Beat up the straw man. Declare superiority. Feel good.

            Browns record in CA is one of utter failire. Feingold had no executive experience whatsoever. As far as I know, Graham and Lugar never ran a pop stand on the side of the road.

            You know what, facts are hard things. Its difficult to obtain information, and to use it to persuade others who are skeptical. Better to just make stuff up. Far easier. Far more satisfying.

            Carry on. Heck of job, Jack!

          • Jack_Savage

            Which is it? How much of one are you willing to trade for the other? If it were Powell and Palin in the race, who gets your vote?

            Who are you supporting in 2012? You are awfully good at smug – which has passed for debate until this point – but how about some decisions and opinions?

          • JSobieski

            I am waiting to learn more of the facts.

            I have already said that I would vote for Palin over any 2008 retread. However, I am interested in some of the two term Governors. Perry, Barbour, Daniels, Pawlenty, etc. each interest me.

            You are awfully good at mischaractizing what people say and painting false choices as to options. If my calling you out on being part of a straw man brigade makes me smug in your book, then your book conflicts with Webster’s.

            There is only one President of the US. Are you saying we can’t find someone who has an actual conservative record to run on?

          • Jack_Savage

            Barbour? The drawling Governor of MS? Linked to the Klan? (Not because he really is, but because he is a white guy from the South). Daniels? Before or after he wanted us to ignore social issues? Pawlenty? Do I really need to list my beefs with him? Perry? Really tough to be a Republican in Texas – name a decision he has made that was controversial or gutsy.

            See? It’s easy to play your game.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            How many of those candidates that you just listed make major gaffes on an almost weekly basis? The answer is none, good they can all move on to the next round of elimination.

          • Jack_Savage

            Because they haven’t once gotten off their fat asses or said a peep to help anyone get elected, that’s why. As far as I am concerned, that eliminates them from the next round, not moves them forward.

          • JSobieski

            and she has been putting herself out there.

            But of course, what do I know? I am just some Beavis/Butthead type who cares about Health Savings Accounts as a means to empower individual patients to run their own lives while reducing costs.

            Clearly the voters the will have other priorities.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            get off their fat asses and say something, who would listen? Haley Barbor could call a press conference tommorow and bash obama and it wouldnt make a dent in any headline. So I would say dont fall in love with Palin being the one to stand up to Obama, she just happens to be the one that stands up to him and then the media reports about it.

          • JSobieski

            Palin gets more coverage, but Haley got plenty.

            I hope Jack doesn’t start calling Haley the MSNBC candidate. The RGA kicked butt in 2010.

          • Jack_Savage

            Isn’t that at the core of this conversation? And is it that you think Palin can’t handle the job of President, or do you think she can’t be elected?

          • JSobieski

            I don’t put much stock in electability either way. It won’t stop me from voting for who I want, and it won’t get me to vote for someone I disliked.

            I voted for Fred in 2008 even though he didn’t have a Michigan campaign. I didn’t want to vote for Romney, Huckabee, or McCain.

          • JSobieski

            Effectiveness in office is the issue. An effective governor has the best shot of being an effective President.

            Thus the focus on conservative accomplishments.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            I dont think she can get elected. I think that if she were to win the GOP nomination you would see a very strong Perot like 3rd party candidate come on the scene and Obama would coast to a second term.

            Now to the question is Barbour or Daniels electable? The answer at this point is I dont know. They need to go through the primary vetting process the same that Romney and Huckabee did and Palin did as VP. Once they survive the press going after them, the debates and all that goes with being a candidate then you can get a good idea of their electablitiy. I think that even the strongest Palin supporter would have to concede that after going through the vetting process, she is at least “lacking” on the electability question.

          • Jack_Savage

            But do you think Palin will be sharper this time around, particularly since she won’t be under the thumb of McCain’s campaign staff?

            Two years is a long, long time, and Palin just stacked up a big old pike of chips.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            hard to erase. And I think it would have been a lot easier to re-invent herself while she was behind the executive seat in Alaska instead of just freelancing around the country.

          • azaeroprof

            Bloomberg is often mentioned, but seriously?? He may poll well as an alternative at this point, but I don’t see very many Americans really liking this guy.

            The biggest 3rd party threat in America at this time is a disgruntled Tea Party. If Palin were the GOP nominee, the Tea Party (at least to the point it can be considered homogeneous) would have no trouble falling in with the Repubs. The best chance for a Tea Party-like 3rd party candidate is if the GOP nominates another so-called moderate. I don’t think that’s likely in the current environment, though.

          • acat

            Consider the 2008 Colorado governors race.

            Outsiders battle for and win the nomination (Maes) while one insider (Tancredo) wants the job.

            Or, consider John Anderson in the 1980 election… Reagan had the nomination sewn up early, but Anderson (a Rockefeller Republican or RINO, if you prefer) ran an “independent” campaign.

            Don’t think there’s a Tancredo or maybe Thune in the wings who would be happy to “Save the Republicans from the Tea Parties”?

            I’m sure Candidate Palin could, with the right veep choice, trounce Obama. I’m not sure Palin would weather that as well as Reagan did…

            Mew

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            and third parties have always helped elect Democrats, never Republicans. (it’s historical, look it up).

            My fear is that She could win the Republican Nomination over a less well known, but more qualified republican, like one of the current governors. But would be trounced by Obama.

            The American public is strange. when they make up their mind on something, it is nearly impossible to change it for a generation at least.

            I fear that unfairly the public, (meaning all non right wingers) have made up their minds on her. I doubt she could get any more than 15-20% of the independents under the best of circumstances.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            matchup, and obama is still very weak and Palin is still strongly disliked, yes I think a Bloomberg or Trump would jump in the middle of that, the media would eat it up and they would fight for the people in the middle. You gotta admit, there is quite a lot of room between Obama and Palin.

          • Jack_Savage

            She could easily be salmon fishing in Alaska, taking pot shots at Obama once a month on Twitter, and enjoying her money. But she’s not.

            As the saying goes – We can’t spare her. She fights.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            and I’m glad she is taking on the President with consistency and with the bullhorn the media has bestowed on her. I’m just scared out of my mind of her becoming the GOP nomination at which point it will not longer be good enough to point out what Obama is doing wrong, but your credentials must also be brought into the mix.

          • acat

            Barbour is chair of the Republican Governors Association, and was responsible for pulling the RNC’s bacon out of the fire in 2010… his campaign had enough money for a “last 72 hours” push, and they did their best to ensure coattails for down-ticket races.

            At least get your facts in order.

            Mew

          • JSobieski

            Insults by comparisons to MSM personalities? Check.

            Class act Jack! Your momma would be proud.

          • Jack_Savage

            She told me yesterday.

            Let’s talk about the substance of the charge, though – do you share the same opinion of Sarah Palin as Keith Olbermann, or not?

          • rsexteriors

            as Governor to another post where you asked for them,

            YET

            You continue to post that she has no, or very little, accomplishments.

            You are not on the fence or you would read and digest that she does have many accomplishments

            I would respect if you came on here and stated what she has done and why you disagree with it, but to just keep reposting that she has no experience or accomplishments shows your not being Intellectually honest.

          • JSobieski

            By the way, I haven’t questioned your acting in good faith, so thanks for questioning mine. I haven’t insulted anyone, I just keep asking questions. Glad to see that my conduct merits you accusing me of lying and acting in bad faith.

            I also never said she has “no” experience. I have questioned the magnitude of her experience.

            I am open on Palin. If it comes down to Huckaboob, the flip flooping Romney, and Palin, I am very much in favor of Palin.

            Is it too much to ask for actual evidence? So far, the answer is yes. I haven’t seen one data point with an actual link posted in all of the comments to this diary.

            I realize that it is far easier to mischaracterize what I say, and argue with a straw man of your own concoction. Carry on! I wouldn’t want to get in the way of you having a good time.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I’ve repeatedly said that Palin has done an exceptional job in this cycle. She’s very good throwing red meat to the base, going after BO, etal with her pointy stick and raising money. There wasn’t anyone better this time out.

            That said, none of those things are needed to get the country from where we are to where we need to be.

          • azaeroprof

            my apologies. But you do seem to never pass up an opportunity to dump on her.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            And I’ve only occasionally waded in on these and until the primary is over, I won’t be saying anything much different. I think she’s totally unqualified for the office.

          • rsexteriors

            those with PDS will not ever admit that she is qualified and has done many great things.

            Many of the same people that keep repeating, like a broken record, that she does not have enough executive experience are the same ones out there trumpeting Chris Christie to run. What executive experience does he have? Don’t get me wrong I like the guy and he is good for a state like New Jersey, but he was a U.S. attorney and within months of taking office many on the right started screaming for him to run for President.

            Seems as long as it is NOT Palin then executive experience is not such an issue

          • JSobieski

            If we go back and look at the record, I am willing to bet you that many of the over the top Christie Presidential boosters pre-Delaware primary were and are big Palin boosters.

            Who is touting Christie for President while attacking a Palin presidential run?

            Care to name names? I can’t think of one person on this site.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            I think Christie would be a fantastic leader, and I think Sarah is unelectable, and would not be a good leader even if elected.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            “stupid” we find the following: “those with PDS will not ever admit that she is qualified and has done many great things.”

            Nobody has ever, to my knowledge, denied that she hasn’t done lots of stuff. Some of it very well – see throwing red meat to the base, raising money and sticking BO with pointy sticks.

            The problem is that many of us don’t find anything in her background that would give us any confidence that she’d be even a mediocre chief executive.

            Your comments about Christie are deliberately off point. He’s not part of the equation here and he’s repeatedly said he isn’t running. But to answer your question, by the time the primary rolls around Christie will have significantly more executive experience than Palin, and if he does nothing for the next year, he’s accomplished significantly more. And FWIW, I have bigger problems with Romney’s executive experience than I do with Palin’s.

            If you think for a second that not having demonstrated the ability to be a successful executive dealing with the kinds of problems we’ll be facing in two years you’re a complete fool. And in that vein, I would argue against the candidacy of Rubio, DeMint or any member of the House or Senate without significant executive experience just as vociferously as I am willing to argue against Palin.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I’ve never compared Sarah to Obama. I’ve compared her experience to his and they track pretty well.

            She draws crowds on the stump who adore her. Him too.

            She raises money very well. Him too.

            She was a good campaigner. Him too.

            He had no executive experience, she’s got – at best – just a little, and that (see above) was no great success. Him too.

            She’s no conservative, based on her actions when she was actually able to accomplish something. Her record as governor is anything but conservative. All she did was spend more money.

            She’s made policy statements. Whoopee! So did Obama. Given her history, she is consistently unable or unwilling to work with legislators of her own party. Why should anybody believe that moving to DC would make a difference.

            And then there’s the cut-and-run thingy. She got caught – and rightfully so – in an ethics mess. She had three options: one, she could have turned over the Yahoo emails and the other stuff and said “We screwed up” and eaten one small lunch of crow. The problem is gone, nobody would have remembered it for a week.
            Two, she could have gone to the AG and had him certify that what she did was within the scope of her job as Governor. Problem is gone. They could fight the state, but Palin is effectively out of it. And it wouldn’t have cost her a nickle. Three, she can stonewall and make it personal, which is what she did. When it became obvious that she was in an untenable position, she ran away. She got away with it because she was just a Governor. Presidents can’t do that.

            The cut-and-run thing is important because it really says a whole lot about her personality and her management style. A fair example as President is the current occupant of the Oval Office. I’d explain it to you but you’re obviously not smart enough to understand.

            With respect to refuting her policy positions, I have no interest in doing so. I don’t even care what they are.

            • She’s had very liminted executive experience.
            • The executive experience she’s had is not a success in any sense of the word.
            • She has demonstrated that she can’t work with members of her own party on legislative issues.
            • She’s demonstrated that she’s the exact opposite of a fiscal conservative.

            Don’t you find it interesting that she’s apparently put in lots of work developing policy positions and she refuses to use her pulpit to address them to the press? If they were actually important to her, you’d think she’d be talking about them. We’ll see if she does and we’ll also see how she holds up to real questioning.

            Oh, and since you’ve accused me of printing lies about her, list them with links.

          • rsexteriors

            her policy positions. YOU CAN’T…

            You just continue the same old “no experience” and spreading lies.

            You (mbecker908) state that:
            -She?s had very liminted executive experience.
            - The executive experience she?s had is not a success in any sense of the word.
            - She has demonstrated that she can?t work with members of her own party on legislative issues.
            - She?s demonstrated that she?s the exact opposite of a fiscal conservative.

            How about you PROVE what you say about her instead of just recycling the same old easily refutable bull????

            She has more experience then most of those deamed running. She cut the Alaska budget, She slashed earmarks by 80%.

            Your so concerned about APPROVAL ratings. She had a 70% approval rating in Alaska before she was picked as McCains VP. She worked well with Democrats getting her agenda passed. Only after she was announced as a VP candidate did those same democrats and Rino’s go nuclear on her.

            Of course some Republicans would not like her. She held them accountable. If rooting out corruption in your own party means you “Can’t work well with members of your own party” then I say too bad.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            As far as her fiscal conservatism, here are the Alaska fiscal budgets:

            Baseline 7/1/06 – 06/30/07: Not her budget, she inherited this one… $13.9B.
            7/1/07 – 6/30/08: Palin’s first budget… $16.1B. Increase of $2.2B or 15.8%.
            7/1/08 – 6/30/09: Palin’s last budget… $18.0B. Increase of 1.9B or 11.8%.
            Total for both Palin budgets: increase of $4.1B or 29.5% over the incoming budget.

            AK actual expenditures for the same period…
            06-07 Baseline: $8.6B.
            07-08: $9.7B, an increase of $1.1B or 12.7%.
            08-09: $11.5B, an increase of $1.8B or 18.5%.
            Total for Palin’s term in office: increase of $2.9B or 33.7%

            As far as F/U ratings, whatever they were in 07 or 08 doesn’t matter, not that you’d understand that. And, they are important. They provide indication of a problem for a candidate and need to be dealt with. I’m not saying, and was specific not to say, that one “poor” poll is the kiss of death. It is, however, a data point and you can bet that her F/U will be polled a whole bunch between now and the primary season. We’ll see what the trend is and if it isn’t improving and improving dramatically with all independents, she’s got a millstone around her neck.

            As far as the “rooting out corruption” crap, take that up with the former employees at the DoJ who by all rights should be doing prison time. There never was any corruption, just people who Sarah felt threatened by.

            I’m going to pretty much let you roam the halls for the enjoyment of others on slow days. If you’re still here come primary time we’ll get together again.

          • gop2010

            She cut a lot from her last submitted budget. Do you leave it out because it contradicts your thesis?

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            The audited version will be out sometime around Dec. 15.

            Given that the AK budget goes through a number of contortions and isn’t really finalized until after the start of the fiscal year and she resigned on Jul 3 (effective Jul 26), it would be prudent to wait until the audited figures are out. In addition, since she was gone at the beginning of the fiscal year, just how much input did she have and how much did Parnell have? We don’t know the answer, I’m pretty sure I know your opinion.

            Given that she submitted two budgets that raised the bar by 30% and oversaw spending increases in the same period by 34%, it’s pretty obvious where her heart lies, and it’s not in the realm of fiscal conservatism.

            The audited figures should be out in a couple of weeks and we’ll see then about the ’10 number.

            Oh, and unlike you and the rest of the SunGoddessWorshipers in this diary, I don’t have a thesis. All I’ve got are numbers published by the State of Alaska and audited by their accounting firm. They speak for themselves.

            I frankly don’t give a rip about Palin one way or the other. She’s done some great things this year with respect to the campaigns. I find her limited record as Governor to be uninspiring at best for reasons I’ve noted. We’re a long way from the ’12 primary, we don’t even know what the real issues – other than fiscal – will be in ’12 and we don’t know who is running. At this time in ’04 Howard Dean was the guy who was going to knock off Bush. In ’08, Hillary was looking for the old drapes to the Oval Office.

            This discussion is way too early and frankly, it smacks of the commentary the Left ran about BO in 08 and the Ronbots ran for RonPaul. We’ve got plenty of time for this crap when the primary rolls around, before that we’ve got real wars to fight in the next Congress and this is a distraction.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            Dont you understand what we are saying about the cut and run thingy was about? They trumped those charges out of thin air, and then the lamestream media pushed and pushed on them until they finally actually made some charges, but Sarah, in her brilliance decided to show those correupt bastards (the media) that they coulnt defeat her so she decided to quit and it left their heads spinning. So we defeated the media by quitting, I know what you are thinking but you must be wrong.

            And now that the media cant stop talking about her (nervermind she keeps putting her keyseter in front of every camera she can find) proves that they fear her the most and therefore, she has already won.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            The “trumped up charges” were mostly trumped up. The state trooper thing wasn’t, at least with respect to the communication via Yahoo.

            Absolutely none of them should have been relevant to her continuing as governor, and wouldn’t have been had she worked with the AG. Her move was about as far from “brilliant” as you can get. A competent executive would have made this silliness go away in about an hour. This incident is a real indication that she can’t manage her business affairs, at all.

            You think for one second that this sort of attack, now that it’s worked in AK, wouldn’t be carried forward in DC buy people who really know how to break knee caps. You’re a fool if you think this is no big deal. It’s usually little things handled wrong and then personalized that bring down “leaders”. A short list would be Watergate, “malaise”, “Read my lips. No new taxes.”, “I did not have sex with that woman”. I’m waiting for BO’s addition to the list. It will come.

            Sarah is a great crowd pleaser and fund raiser. She’s good with her pointy sticks. She’s an incompetent executive. Whether the media likes or hates her, gives her no print or all print won’t change any of that.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            portrayed the Palinista motto (which I have heard on a daily basis from her cultlike followers) pretty well on that topic since Becker didnt see my deep rooted sarcasim.

          • acat

            To the point where I was a little surprised it was your writing…

            The problem with the internet is that the sarc tags have to be written in by hand. We can’t hear your tone of voice or see your eyes rolling unless you write it down. (grin)

            Mew

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Very, very well done.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            But I’m keeping out of this latest food fight over Sarah.

            I’d just like to find a stronger lock for the commissary door.

          • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

            Do comments usually get this many replies? ;)

  • Mary Beth
  • rsexteriors

    chance of Republicans winning in 2012.

    We tried the whole “Big Tent, need a moderate” thing. It was called McCain… and God Forbid a Romney nomination would be a worse beating then McCain. That would take Obamacare off the table as an issue.

    Here is a great article which states very well WHY she can win and WHY we NEED her to run

    Holding Sarah Palin to Her Promise
    http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/holding_sarah_palin_to_her_pro.html

    Another good article debunking Will and Rove’s hit pieces

    http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/11/24/does-sarah-palins-path-to-the-presidency-run-through-popular-culture/

  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

    ..which is a renewed call to decide which side of other culture divide we will stand on.

    Alos, we’re not seeing an attack by the elites on Sarah Palin alone, but rather on virtually every conservative female running for office: O’Donnell, Angle, Haley, Bachman, for starters – because they threaten the leftist-feminist monopoly on women’s issues.

    We see attacks on black and Hispanic (and Jewish) consevatives – but the attack is particularly virulent with conservative women because women are over half the population – and that’s a large voting block in danger of being lost to the Democrats.

    • JadedByPolitics

      It is NOT for the MFM or the “elites” to decide for US, it is up to WE The People to look into the heart of the next President and know that person LOVES this Country more then themselves!

  • chbroussard

    While I admit that Sarah Palin may not have all the qualifications to be President of the United States, there are a few things which put her in the top tier for me.

    1. She is the Energizer Bunny, which in the U.S. has come to mean “continue indefatigably.” She has shown that she is not a quiter. In fact, she’s continued to step up her game.

    2. I would be willing to bet a couple of paychecks that if elected, she would not embark on a “Blame America” or “Apology” tour. She loves this country and what it stands for and is not ashamed to say so. Unlike the current occupant of the Oval Office, she doesn’t think we’re the bad guys.

    3. I think she’s smart enough to know where her weaknesses lie and would surround herself with experts in those areas. It’s a pretty safe bet she wouldn’t be surrounded by Marxists like Van Jones or Cass Sunstein.

    4. She wouldn’t bow to any foreign leader. In fact, there are some leaders that might end up having to bow to her.

    5. Can you hear Sarah saying that the United States is not a Christian nation? I don’t think so. She’s not embarrassed to be a Christian and walks the walk. Every time I see her with the little baby she chose to keep, her stock goes up another notch.

    6. In negotiations with foreign leaders, I feel safe that with Sarah, the U.S. would not come out on the short end of the stick. I think she would fight for the best interests or the U.S. and not be more concerned about being loved and adored by the world’s masses.

    Once we know who all the candidates for the Republican nomination are, I’ll make my decision on who I will support. It may very well not be Sarah. But it will definitely be my decision, not the MSM’s.

    If anyone thinks libs and their buddies in the MSM are not trying to influence our decision, take a minute and read Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. This is one of the rules:

    “Ridicule is a man’s most potent weapon. It is impossible to counteract ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition which then reacts to your advantage.”

    Let’s make our own decision. Let’s not react.

    • JadedByPolitics

      “”A guy named Ronald Reagan used to be viewed as divisive,” said McCain, whose staff regarded Palin as a primping, under-prepared political novice at times during the 2008 campaign.

      “She’s doing a great job. I think she’s motivated our base,” he added. “She had a positive impact on the last election, and I’m proud of her.”

      Indeed They Did Call Reagan Divisive

      • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

        But he’s a pretty powerful chip she has to play. Think about it; she could actually bridge the gap between conservatives and establishment types. All she has to do is take McCain along with her to fundraisers and the like behind the scenes. She’s got the grassroots conservatives locked up already.

    • roguebeaver

      Except #1, your points would equally apply to any other candidate.

      • chbroussard

        I don’t recall the Alinsky rule of ridicule being applied to any other potential Republican candidate, at least not at the same fevered pitch that has been leveled against Palin.

        • JSobieski

          Romney, McCain, Huckabee, and yes even Fred were subjected to ridicule.

          The nicknames were hilarious. I am particularly fond of Huckaboob and McLame. By the end, even RS favorite Fred’s sleeping “non-campaign” campaign was mocked for its lack of professionalism. The Romney flip flopper comments were endless.

          So no Palin is not being unfairly singled out. If she runs, you will need to develop a thicker skin.

          • chbroussard

            in junior high. Not even close to what they did and continue to do to Palin, including but not limited to her children. And if you read my post, I said I put her in my top tier, not that I am a full-fledged supporter. I’m waiting to see who actually throws their hat in the ring.

            Oh, and thanks for the concern about my skin. But, really, you needn’t bother. It’s plenty thick. I read your stuff, don’t I?

          • JSobieski

            I am talking about comments on this site. 2008 was brutal around here

            Oh yeah, challenging someone’s experience, . . that’s really really bad . . .

            If you think candidates were subjected to ridicule here at RS, you are failing to acknowledge what happened here.

            Oh yeah, challenging someone’s experience, . . that’s really really bad . . .

            The worst comments I have heard about Palin here at Redstate is that she is unqualified.

            Oh yeah, challenging someone’s experience, . . that’s really really bad . . .

            Huckabee was called a socialist dressed up as a southern baptist preacher. Romney’s flip flops were mocked on a daily basis.

            Oh yeah, challenging someone’s experience, . . that’s really really bad . . .

            If the worst Palin gets here at RS is “I don’t think she has an extensive track record of accomplishment” then I think your singling out comment (Alinsky is a fighting word here) is simply laughable.

            Oh yeah, challenging someone’s experience, . . that’s really really bad . . .

          • chbroussard

            on this site from 2008, but that’s NOT what you said, so I interpreted it that you meant comments from the MSM. So, sorry I was unable to understand where you were coming from. And I never said that challenging someone’s qualifications or experience was bad, now did I.

          • JSobieski

            They accused McCain of having an affair for gosh sakes. Nobody accused Palin of having an affair.

            Reporters mocked Romney for all of the twisting and turning he did to get votes. In Michigan, he was industrial policy Romney. In New Hampshire, he was free market Romney. In SC, he was pro-life Romney.

            No, you didn’t say questioning qualifications was bad.

            I did interpret your comment (cited below):
            “I don?t recall the Alinsky rule of ridicule being applied to any other potential Republican candidate, at least not at the same fevered pitch that has been leveled against Palin.” to be from the perspective of RS.

            I suggest that your recollection of 2008 in terms of media coverage needs some refreshing.

          • gop2010

            “Nobody accused Palin of having an affair.”

            Educate yourself:

            http://gawker.com/5045218/palin-had-affair-says-enquirer

            More, per Bill Jacobsen:

            “They make up tales about Palin’s childhood health care, whether she had a boob job, make jokes about her giving hand jobs, claim she “rolled her eyes” when told someone was a teacher, examine the color of her bracelet to claim she dishonored war dead, falsely claim she advocated war with Iran, distort polling about her, attack her intelligence, berate her for recommending followers read a Thomas Sowell column, move next door to her to snoop on her, go after a blogger who defends her on MSNBC, claim her success is because men are aroused by her, go nuts because of her (first) book tour including counting the number of non-white people in crowds, blame her for a turkey farmer’s problems, suggest she contributed to a swine flu outbreak in Alaska, turn her into a pin-up girl for a news magazine, misrepresent her comment about “death panels,” claim she is “too sexy” to be a national politician, concoct the hoax that she didn’t know Africa was a continent, and hang her in effigy.”

            It’s really not anything at all like Romney, Huckabee or McCain.

          • chbroussard
          • gop2010

            But his PDS/uterus fixation is well known.

          • JSobieski

            If you want to pick someone based on the level of hatred by the left, I suggest to you that the left thought Reagan was a pushover so they wanted him to win in 1970.

          • acat

            I forget which one(s) but .. they’re not all Republican-only.

            Worse, they’re not mostly in the South. Northeast (FICONS) and Iowa (Populists) come first, then the South gets their shot on “Super Tuesday”…

            Just sayin’.

            Mew

          • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

            Looks like Iowa will come down to a battle between Huckabee and Palin, if he runs (and I’ve been seeing chatter – I was a supporter in 2008 and I’m still on the local email list). Then Romney will take New Hampshire. South Carolina will be interesting. If DeMint decided to run he would have that locked up, but a DeMint candidacy is looking less and less likely by the day. Palin could do will if she called in a favor from Nikki Haley, although Huckabee would no doubt play well too. The South would likely be a battle between Palin and Huckabee, and Romney could easily be marginalized by the time the West votes if there’s no third candidate like McCain picking up support. It’s also of note that Palin probably could pull a lot of support from the electoral rich California and Texas if she calls in favors from Fiorina and Perry.

          • chihank

            Iowa is a closed. However, plenty of Huckabee operatives are running state Pro-life organizations and the Iowa Family Research Council. Social Cons will portray Huckabee as God’s candidate.

            The NH primary allows only registered GOPers and Indies to vote in GOP primaries. Mitt Romney has been spending his summer in NH. So Romney probably has a lock on NH.

            Michigan and South Carolina are the truly open primaries.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    …I plan to help. But it’s too early to jump on any bandwagon, especially if the owner of that wagon hasn’t declared.

    What I suggest is we continue to pound on the underlying biases and notions about “ordinary” or “common” men and women in general as found among American elitists of all stripes. Before picking a candidate, it’s we time all go together and just kicked the living Hell out of them.

    Also note, as a point of distinction, i use “elite” favorably, to denote people The People have more or less anointed, from the good Boss to the Good political leader, and the “elitist”, who is self-anointed, and generally makes a bad Boss, usually destroying the company his daddy built, or worse, a bad political leader, usually a Democrat Liberal, but not ncessarily so.

    In the months before any of them declare, I plan to spend my time trying to flush this covey of carrion out. Personally, I think Sarah already knows and I think she will choose wisely. I haven’t settled on her at all, but what I have settled on is that all the arguments used against her “ordinariness” are bogus. These we need to dispatch and bury in the coming months.

    Salvo One coming up.

    • acat
    • JadedByPolitics

      the whole point of this diary and many more to come is the awakening of untold sleeping Americans to the danger to this beautiful Country. Sarah has expressed that better then any of those supposed “front runners”, they have not made the case that Obama and the Democrats and the Political Class hacks on the RIGHT are selling them a bill of goods that can only lead to failure if allowed to continue, she has. I expect US to continue to write diaries pointing out the horror that is tyranny and how FREEDOM isn’t free and failure is not an option.

    • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

      Having just lived through the Colorado governor’s race nightmare, I’ve learned that it’s not enough to be “ordinary”; you have to be vetted and competent and running a campaign. Trust, but verify. Fortunately, Palin suffers none of the deficiencies of Maes. She’s been battle tested in her previous campaigns.

      • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

        n/t

  • redneck_hippie

    corner over the past month. I’ll not be sold on any candidate before all hats are in. Right now I have a lot of joy in contemplating Chris Christie as Chief of Staff in 2013.

    It is more interesting to me right now to dream about congressional control in both houses and Supreme Court confirmation fights. And I want a leader with the correct psychological makeup behind the bully pulpit.

  • Tbone

    While I don’t need Liberals telling me how to vote or what to think, I REALLY don’t need Karl Rove telling me those things.

    • roguebeaver

      What kind of person would vote based on an endorsement alone? I certainly wouldn’t. In any case, Rove & Co are talking to the supers, not the voters.

      To all the ‘Nistas here: if Palin doesn’t run, as seems likely, who would you support?

      • chihank

        I have a feeling that Plain will run for President only if Tea Party Express is willing to back her in the primary. Tea Party Express says Romney is unacceptable. While, TPX does like Palin, they also like DeMint, Pence, and Newt.

        Mike Pence says he will consider running President after the Holidays. If Palin doesn’t run, then I could see Palin and TPX rallying around Pence. In fact, a Palin endorsement would be the kind of thing Pence needs if Mitch Daniels is running.

        • Tbone

          pulse.

          All he needs against Palin is a resume. 10 years as a Congressman ain’t much.

          Might be a good VP.

  • JSobieski

    Frankly, I would like to learn more about her time as governor, but its a topic that nobody seems willing to investigate.

    So Palin fans out there, you have a week. If there are no takers, I will write one factually-laden pro-Palin diary and one factually-laden “no don’t run” Palin diary.

    Frankly, I have enough work to do so I hope that someone actually picks up this challenge and runs with it.

    More light–less heat.

    • rsexteriors

      posted about her accomplishments and you and others just keep up with the same posts stating that no one is will to post anything about her accomplishments.

      This is just a “Tactic” to try and continue to deny that she has many accomplishments and plenty of experience.

      Heck one of the other’s on here with PDS read the accomplishments and experience post that I wrote and he actually said something like ” Well yeah, but all of that is just legislation that she passed and other stuff that she did, It does not address the fact that she has no executive experience”…………………..

      You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink

      • JSobieski

        Who is operating in the land of tactics again?

      • The_Rebel

        I thought I would weigh in on a point that I have not seen made here. This diary shows the depth of the support that Palin has among those people who will have a lot to say in the primaries if she does choose to run. The question to the mbeckers of the world is how are you going to stop this freight train, and what candidate, pray tell, is capable of doing so?

        I would support Palin in the primaries, and if the Palin detractors found a candidate who could and did beat her, then I would also support that candidate wholeheartedly. I wonder if mbecker would do likewise if Palin wins?

        • powertothepeople

          it will all boil down to this:

          We have a choice, put someone up who can dethrone Obama or stick up a stinker who will give him four more years.

          In order to beat Obama we have to have a majority of independent votes and our base has to be excited. There is no ifs and buts about this.

          Can Palin win the republican nomination, yes. But she can not win the general. A vast majority of independents dislike her or even despise her. They will not vote for her. They want a change from Obama, but they will not take her. So what they will do is vote strong republican in the Congress, yet keep him in office. In their minds they will justify that decision by thinking they balanced his power by giving the repubs the Congress. They have done this before with Clinton, Bush, and others.

          Most of us on here will vote republican in the general no matter who it is. We did it with McCain, we would do it with Palin. But the reality is, setting aside all the Palin love and the arguments against her, she can not beat Obama unless she is able to change the minds of millions of independents and I do not see her doing that.

          If the Palin lovers think independents will all of a sudden vote Palin just because of who Obama is and what he has done, they are sadly mistaken. And if anyone thinks we can beat Obama without the votes of the independents, they have their head hidden in the sand.

          We could all put aside all of our feelings and arguments, pro or con, concerning Palin and the reality is she is despised by a vast majority of independents and many republicans. Without these votes, Obama will stay president. As of this moment, Palin will pull few of these votes on a good day much less on election day. And that is a serious problem with the Palin lovers arguments that can not be reconciled with reality. A vote for Palin is a vote for Obama.

          We pulled a stupid move in 08, I hope we have learned our lesson. But if the majority of our party is as blind as many on here, it will become very obvious soon enough no lesson was learned with the McCain fiasco.

          Again, setting aside arguments about if she was a great gov or a dismal failure as one, there are plenty of great conservative men and women out there with strong proven track records. We need to get them into the race and excited about having the chance to beat Obama. Two that pop into my mind who do not have the hate baggage Palin has are DeMint and Bauchmann. And there are plenty more with strong fav/dislike ratings that could be pushed into a run.

          We must beat Obama and we need the independent vote to accomplish that.

          • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

            Bachmann is more polarizing than Palin, and pretty much has all the negatives that the Palin bashers are (wrongly) attributing to Palin. Palin at least has an extensive executive record as town council woman, mayor, and then governor. However, I don’t think that DeMint will run. He should be making moves right now if he wants to run and he’s not doing it. I do agree that Palin would have ground to make up with independents. But 2 years is a long time, and she’s been surprising people for a while. With her in control of her campaign instead of McCain, and maybe a more favorable media, she could do wonders. As some on here have pointed out, her record isn’t so conservative as to turn off the general public. All that would come out in the campaign.

          • The_Rebel

            than Palin. If one doesn’t like Palin, why would you think Bachmann will lead us to the promised land? She will be trashed by the media in the same way that Palin was in 2008.

            The defeatism exhibited by the PDS naysayers will not help us in the long run. To categorically state that Palin cannot win the general before she has even decided whether to run is nuts. I could say the same about many of the other supposed candidates. The bottom line is this- find me a candidate who can stop the Palin freight train. Until and/or unless that happens , let’s not give the other side and the MSM more ammunition.

  • chihank

    The Establishment is mounting a Stop Palin Express on grounds that her favorables are poor. However, Newt’s poll numbers are just as poor or in some instances worse than Palin. Newt is probably going to announce his 2012 campaign after his book tour in March/April 2011. Why isn’t the Establishment going after Newt?

    Personally, I’m not interested in a Palin 2012 or Newt 2012. But if those two choose to run for President, then that is their right. It is also their responsibility to prove to primary voters that they are viable. If they can’t prove it, then both Newt and Palin will end up like Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson.

    Overall, I say let anyone who wants to run, run and let them make their case to the voters. Then the voters will decide who the nominee will be, not the Establishment.

    • JSobieski

      Newt will NOT be the nominee. Anyone wants to place bets to the contrary, I am willing to take out a second mortgage.

      The ration of negatives to positives is an ominous and unpenetrable barrier for his candidacy. He probably won’t run–just needs to keep folks guessing so people will still want to interview him.

      Any chances for Newt died when he sat on that park bench . . .

      • roguebeaver

        In addition to the baggage and polarization, his personal life is a complete mess. He’d probably destroy Obama in a debate though.

    • dandapani

      Newt is damaged goods. He can go Scozzafava himself.

  • LisaDe

    In that it made me think deeply about why I, on one side, really like Palin and on the other side, have severe reservations. To be absolutely honest, I put alot of stock into Debate time. It may seem trivial but I believe that throughout any campaign the candidate basically preaches to the choir, giving speeches across the USA to loyal supporters. It is the debates where all the people finally get to hear the other voice. The “You Betchas”, the “shout-outs” and the winks really turned me off last time around. Against Obama on a prime time debate, I’d love to see a person with the eloquence of a Dick Cheney, the stature of a Ronald Reagan and the experience of a … of a …. and that’s where I draw a blank!!!

    • JadedByPolitics

      Palin in the debates is what I am waiting to see. I know the middle of the roaders Huckabee and Romney will bend so far RIGHT they will snap and then there will just be a few standing. I as well await the “dark horse” and not knowing who that will be is as exciting as waiting to see Palin in the debates.

      • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

        It’s how she won in Alaska. The media was so intent on spinning her as an uneducated rube that everybody was surprised when she kicked Biden’s butt in the debates.

  • Tbone

    Where are the other guys?

    A great statement BTW.

    But, it shows how much juice she has.

    • JadedByPolitics

      Where are they? same place they always are , late to the dance, oh not quite they are running a poll.

      • Tbone

        why he has a w in his name, Daniels fell asleep practicing his comments in front of a mirror and Newt is busy writing out alimony checks.

      • acat
        • Tbone

          unless they quit.

          • acat

            And, at this point, all the candidates including Palin are continuing to work their day jobs.

            Hers just happens to be sticking sharp objects into Obama’s hide as often as possible, and raising funds for conservatives.

            Mew

        • rsexteriors

          or Huckabee???

          Seems like Christy had time to come out and put Palin down on late night TV the other day……

          • JSobieski

            I have repeatedly been on the record saying I would vote for Palin against any of those folks.

            Aesthete and Becker have also repeatedly made similar statements.

            I don’t know why some of you have such a hard time understanding what we are saying?

            I would enthusiastically vote for Palin over any 2008 retread and over Newt.

            I realize that makes me a crazy RINO, but its the truth.

            I should point out that neither Aesthete nor Becker would be “enthusiastic” in that scenario, but they have stated their intentions nonetheless.

            But why address facts when you can just point us all as nuts?

          • acat

            Just because I don’t think Palin is the best candidate doesn’t mean I automatically support any of the retread clown posse.

            Just because Palin is better than any of the retread clown posse doesn’t mean she’s the best possible candidate.

            Mew

          • JSobieski

            You may now proceed to just ignore any thing I just said.

          • Tbone

            isn’t much of a resume.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            run it like a Democrat.

          • http://seekingliberty.wordpress.com fmaidment

            n/t

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            Just something about him that always seemed so insincere and well, just slimy. I might be totally wrong about him, and unfair, but my crap detector has rarely been wrong before. And it got such a big jolt from Huck.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        has just what to with being able to run the country. It’s a nice campaign thingy, but beyond that, it’s nothing that doesn’t happen equivalently in 10,000 blogs about a million times a day.

        • Tbone

          Toby and Sarah.

          • acat

            Not so great for electability. (or, really, anything other than visibility)

            Mew

          • gop2010
          • acat

            2 years out, nobody outside Illinois knew who Obama was.
            Hillary was visible.
            2 years out, nobody outside Arkansas knew who Clinton was.
            “Moonbeam” Brown was visible, as were Tsongas and Harkin.

            History suggests Palin must watch for “fatigue”.

            Mew

      • rsexteriors

        are scared they might “offend” or say something that the press will not like. They are probably “Focus Grouping” and Polling catch phrases to see what their handlers will let them say.

        Meanwhile Sarah Palin is out in front and she is exactly right.

        Of course those with PDS will castigate her for “poking” Obama and saying something that might offend the democrats and will say that it is wrong to try and hold Obama accountable………. blah blah blah

        • JSobieski

          and frankly, I don’t think Barbour is “scared” of anybody. I also believe that Palin respects Barbour and that his running (with his perceived chance of success) could impact her decision. I take Palin at her word that she is not particularly interested in running, but will do so if needed.

          I suspect that Palin speaks far more highly of some of the “other guys” than you do.

          As an aside, its interesting how Palin folks feel free to just presume inferior character with regards to other candidates, but if anyone comes close to doing the same for Palin, its histrionics all the way.

          I don’t have PDS, she just isn’t my first choice among all of the potentials. If I had PDS, she would be no higher than my last choice.

          But as you so elequently stated “blah blah blah”

          • acat

            Defending Palin from even a perceived slight seems to be an almost autonomic reaction at this point.

            Mew

          • gop2010

            I’m not getting the condescension and slams on Palin fans. If you ask, I will try to answer, but I don’t see any question at all in JS’s last.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            like many in this diary, are incapable of rational thought. Palin4Pres is an emotional and spiritual experience for them. They will not deal with questions about her qualifications and are unwilling to understand that posting on Facebook and raising money are nice but they’re not important in terms of being able to run the country.

            Frankly a good portion of the posters here who are rabid (used intentionally) Palinistas are cut from exactly the same cloth as Obama’s supporters or RonPaul’s troops, although Paul’s folks will at least pretend to deal with a fact or two. BO & SP’s fanatics wouldn’t know a fact if it landed on their heads.

          • gop2010

            I was told Palin fans won’t address the key question, and I don’t see a question. Maybe you feel justified in putting people down for disagreeing with you. I do not.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
          • http://seekingliberty.wordpress.com fmaidment

            …for the anti-Palin crowd.

            As with most fanatical devotions, many have no idea what they’re talking about. But I’m certain there are people out there who honestly and informedly believe that Sarah is the best thing for this country, just like Paulistas and Obamanites.

            They’re few and far between, but they’re out there…

          • acat

            Most of the “anti-Palin forces” are no such thing – they’re people who have questions and haven’t made up their minds.

            Are there rabid PDS (Palin Derangement Syndrome) sufferers? Of course, especially at Daily Kos… At Red State? Mostly people who either disagree that she’s the best candidate, or who haven’t decided.

            There are also rabid PDDS (Palin Defender Derangement Syndrome) sufferers – that is, people who let their emotional connection with Candidate Palin override their ability to tell when someone’s asking a question and when someone’s on the attack.

            Mew

          • acat

            …. insist on comparing her to members of the retread clown posse (i.e. Newt, Romney, Huckabee) when other potential candidates (Daniels, Barbour, Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio, Herman Cain) are mentioned.

            ….refuse to, in this collection of comments at least, rationally defend Gov. Palin, instead lobbing accusations.

            ….reject all numbers-data that shows that there are valid questions about her ability to reach the independents and whether her administration of Alaska was in fact fiscally conservative.

            Mew

          • gop2010

            …and since I have a) been respectful, b) backed up my points with evidence, and c) cast no aspersions on any other candidate, I don’t get your beef (so to speak).

            woof

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I’ll be specific, at least a little. rsex… is an idiot. Several others who shall remain nameless but aren’t you, are – as we say in Pentecostal churches – caught up in the spirit.

            The bottom line for me, and I think for most of the folk who’ve been challenging Palin’s credentials, is that its’ way too early for this stuff. Other than the fiscal stuff we don’t have a clue what the real issues will be in ’12. Heck, we don’t even know what they’ll be in January with the new Congress and I find that to be one heck of a lot more important that what Barbara Bush thinks about Sarah Palin and how far Sarah can get her nose out of joint about it.

            Talk to me this time next year and things might be coming together a tad more.

          • acat

            It wasn’t aimed at you.

            Let me try phrasing it another way, though.

            For those of us who aren’t currently Palin supporters, who haven’t made up our minds two years before the election, one of the big stumbling blocks is the reflexive anger we get from some of her other supporters when we ask honest questions.

            Again, not aimed at you.

            Mew

          • JSobieski

            I am probably more of a Palin fan than you are, but I admit that I find this tremendous emotional bond between Palin and her most ardent supporters very puzzling. Frankly, I don’t remember Reagan having such an emotional impact on his ardent supporters until after he was President for a while.

            I fully admit that I don’t understand how such a resilient emotional bond can develop so quickly based on relatively fewer facts.

            By way of contrast, I am do feel a great reverence for Reagan (particularly in hindsight—I did not fully appreciate how unique he was at the time, but heck I was born in 1970). That said, I do not perceive myself to be as “touchy” on the Reagan legacy (which is based on a heck of a lot of facts) as some (please note I am not saying all or even most) on the Palin side are to the asking of questions that will be asked about all the candidates.

            I think there is something about modern media technology (largely good stuff) and modern media/political culture (largely bad stuff) that is creating these “bubbles” of emotional overinvestment.

            Obama is a big example of that. So is Snooki or whatever her name is on the Jersey show. I think a lot of people out there are looking for a hero.

            That said I think Palin is remarkable person who is actually worthy of role model status.

          • acat

            I think it’s a misplaced sense of “female under attack, must defend female”. Defending the female has been reinforced quite a bit by traditional culture, that is, by the culture most conservatives hold, and most progressives reject.

            Palin is a woman, under attack, undeservedly. There’s a rush to defense from the conservative side that .. sometimes .. doesn’t even enter conscious thought…. and the defenders react to any perceived threat whether it’s an actual threat or not.

            It’s my pet theory, I don’t have any actual science to back it up, but .. it does fit the facts available.

            Mew

          • gop2010

            I think it’s partly a version of “I’m mad as hell and am not going to take it anymore!” I see some of myself, and a great deal of my mother, in Sarah Palin. I don’t think I’m alone in that. Disrespect to her feels like disrespect to me. We get tired of the distortions and lies and condescension coming from all sides, including from people we thought were friends and allies. It hurts, it causes the development of a rather large chip on one shoulder, and it leads one to presume that critics are engaging in bad faith.

            It may have something to do with her gender in that I might not identify so much with Palin if there were lots of other female conservative Republicans to remind me of Mom. It could also have to do with her very Midwestern sensibilities or her willingness to call a spade a spade. But once the identification with Mom is complete, it answers your question very well: No one gets to trash-talk Mom..

          • acat

            Palin reminds me almost nothing of my own mother, but … it’s likely to be a valid point for people raised in more traditional families.

            The key thing I see in your post is “disrespect to her feels like disrespect to me”, emphasis on “..feels..”. There’s definitely an emotional component to Palin’s popularity that nobody else in either party seems to have.

            I’m trying to figure out how to discuss Palin with her supporters without getting a negative emotional response. Evidently, I’m going to need to work on my approach to keep this emotional link in mind. Nobody, and I mean *nobody* in politics has that kind of an emotional reaction in so large a percentage of their supporters.

            Thank you very much for your reply. Lots for me to think on.

            Mew

          • gop2010

            The connection is definitely emotional (otherwise we wouldn’t get so mad!), but that doesn’t invalidate it. Enthusiasm and excitement are emotions that a winning politician must be able to generate. Whatever their overzealousness, Palin is fortunate to have a devoted following. Surely every other politician envies her for it. I suspect Big Dawg is a little green about it, too.

          • acat

            My concern is that Palin’s next step – winning over the independents – is not going to be made easier if every independent who has questions steps on an emotional land mine when they approach a pro-Palin person with questions.

            Mew

          • aesthete

            for engaging on such a loaded issue with class, decorum, and (most importantly) facts. I can’t say that I agree with either poster’s conclusions, but I do respect that both posters for discussing without using pejorative or pseudo psychoanalysis, for starting with real-world premises, and for attempting to build a non-emotional case for Palin.

        • acat

          Use your google-fu and see if you can prove that I’ve ever said that Palin “poking” Obama is a problem. You won’t because I never have.

          Her ability to distill the essence of an issue – be it “death panels” or her ingenious “thanksgiving message to all 57 states” or her response to the wikileaks fiasco – and to shove it in Obama’s face is her brilliance. She showed this during the 2008 campaign when she, not McLame, was the one going after Obama.

          Where we part company is that you accept this as enough to be presidential timber, and I don’t.

          So. Why don’t you do something Palin-like?

          Instead of bringing up the retread clown posse of Newt and Huck and Mitt, and instead of bringing up how Palin has been attacked over and over and over, why don’t you distill down for me what her qualifications are?

          Mew

  • SirGladiator

    Its pretty obvious at this point that Sarah is the best candidate of all those who are expected to run. She’s taken the fire that the media would’ve used against our nominee in the fall of 2012, and its just gone, they don’t have anything left. Pretty much everything they do now just involves stuff to laugh at and throw back in their face. Like when she made a slip of the tongue (and immediately corrected it) in her 7th in a series of back to back interviews, accidentally saying ‘North’ instead of ‘South’ one time in an interview where she had already said it properly anyway. That was so obviously a false attack, but instead of simply laughing at the media’s desperation, she got to laugh at the wonderful opportunity they gave her, to point out the MANY mistakes that Obama made, mistakes that he never even corrected. At this point the media’s criticisms of her are actually doing more help than harm, their ammunition is totally spent.

    I don’t think anybody is, or would, suggest that she simply be ‘handed’ the nomination, as she herself has said she wants to earn it in the competition of the primary if she runs, because thats what makes candidates better. As she has also indicated, she’s going to run on her Alaska record, she’s going to correct the mis-statements by the lamestream media, and show America how she would govern as President, by pointing out what she accomplished as Governor. She’s had more accomplishments in her time as Governor than Obama in his time as President and Senator combined, she’s had more media scrutiny in her time as VP candidate and subsequent two years as a private citizen than Obama has had in his entire life, including his time as President. There’s no doubt she’s the most talented, intelligent, electable, and simply ‘ready’ candidate that we could possibly nominate. For those who have doubts, once you’ve seen her on the stump as a Presidential candidate, and seen her in a debate or two, you won’t have them anymore. She’s going to go out there and earn the nomination, just like she’s going to earn the White House in 2012. She’s the best, she’s proven it before and she will prove it again!

    • acat

      Time spent in the media caldera does not equate to executive ability.

      Working against, around, and through the media is only part of the job she’s applying for.

      The bulk of the job is executive.

      The next republican president will spend time pruning (or maybe just clearcutting) decades of liberal deadwood in the various executive agencies and getting them back to what they’re supposed to be doing.

      The next republican president will need to work with (hopefully a conservative-republican-majority) congress to hammer out budget cuts. The “Road Map” is one approach that could be taken.

      The next republican president will need to elucidate the challenges of China to an american people who are woefully unprepared to tackle another conflict on the scale of the cold war .. but who must do just that.

      Granted, Palin has mastered walking around in the furnace of the media. What are her qualifications, what in her background shows that she can do any of the other parts of the job?

      Mew

  • runner12

    discussion. I personally like Gov. Palin and admire her authenticity and honesty. I think she brings something to the table as an elected official that this country has not seen in a long time and I have not seen in my lifetime. I do not question her experience or intelligence and I will passionately defend her to those who do.
    That being said, I am not sure she is the right candidate for the top of the ticket, for two main reasons:
    1.) She is great where she is now and widly successful. She can say things that need to be said that you can’t necessarily say as the POTUS. She is making changes at the grass roots level and I am not sure that we can find someone to replace her who is able to speak to the people so effectively in this manner. In this position, she has united Independents and Conservatives. She is exactly what we need in this role.

    2.) It is hard to say this, but the lamestream media has been quite successful at polarizing her. It isn’t right and it is a pack of lies, but there are still many out there who simply buy what the media feeds them. I believe all of the media attention has been a hindrance, not a help to her when running for the POTUS. It is a benefit in the position she is in, but not as a presidential candidate.
    I think we need to be careful not to fall into the cult-of-personality when choosing candidates. We need to be honest about the pros and cons of each one. At the end of the day, Gov, Palin has put the ball in our court regarding her candidacy. I believe her when she says she will only run if a RINO (ie Huckabee or Romney) is the establishment pick for the GOP nod. I think she places this country above her own ambitions and will only run if we fail to put up a quality conservative candidate.
    But we should not narrow our choices to one good conservative like Gov. Palin, we need to be looking for others as well. The more truly conservative candidates there are in the mix, the better chance we have of choosing a candidate that can defeat Obama.

  • After Seven

    Lets end the charade: She will run.

    Can she be President? You betcha’

    Money? Check
    Charisma? Check
    Family Values? Check
    Conservative? Check
    National Defense? Check
    Communicator? Check
    Exec Experience? Check
    Anti-Corruption Creds? Check
    Anti-Socialism? Check
    Free Market? Check
    Connects with Middle America? Check
    Pro Judeo-Christian Tradition? Check

    Frankly the left would have a collective annuerism if the first Female President were Conservative. All the more reason that I look forward to her historic candidacy.

    • acat

      Exec Experience is a Check-Asterisk.

      She’s very polarizing at the moment – her polling among independents is dismal, and were she to run against Obama, a center-right or center-left challenger (think Clinton if center-left, or maybe Bloomberg if center-right) could mount an “independent” campaign and suck the oxygen away from both ends of the spectrum. (my guess is enough RINOs and Dems would encourage Bloomberg to run .. he’d self-fund, of course .. and in a party split, Obama wins)

      Not that she can’t overcome any of this .. but let’s at least be intellectually honest and admit she has some big hurdles to clear.

      Mew

      • After Seven

        Reagan polled poorly with Indy’s too, he routed Carter because, 1. Carter was abysmal, 2. He rolled Carter in the debates and that tipped the indy’s.

        I totally disagree on your Bloomberg/Obama analysis, its off the charts wrong. Bloomberg is center left on his best day: Salt, Taxes, Mosque, Obamacare…I mean Seriously how could you call him center right, that’s ludicrous….Bloomy is dead in the water before his ship is launched. He can’t win middle America…he can’t win with TP, he can’t win anywhere in the South, and I doubt he could take Ohio, Indiana or Penn. He can’t win with Conservatives, and frankly he has yet to prove that his Fiscal credentials with NYC are anything to crow about….Center right??? maybe in the UK, not here, not by a longshot. He’s the antithesis of the 2010 Midterms…A Big City Blue State Failed Socialist. Add the fact that he turned from GOP to Indy and then add to that he’s largely viewed as an Obama crony and there is only one conclusion: He siphons off Progressives from Obama and the GOP challenger wins…by a landslide. I hope he runs.

  • izoneguy

  • rick_hoelzer

    Should we not take a poll so we know if we stand on the right side (should I say left side) of politically correctness? After all we surely don’t want to offend anyone! ;)

  • http://www.flaliberty.org scorpio0679

    Awesome diary. I feel the same way. Thanks for expressing it in such a clear, unadulterated way.

  • Pingback: gsdfghsdkflhgksdfl

  • Pingback: Watch Madea S Witness Protection

  • Pingback: link

  • Pingback: sexy lady

  • Pingback: wholesale nike air jordans

  • Pingback: Better sex

  • Pingback: Make money online

  • Pingback: How to fight

  • Pingback: jak szybko schudnac

  • Pingback: diablo 3 gold

  • Pingback: about yoga

  • Pingback: yoga at home

  • Pingback: Organo Gold Scam

  • Pingback: Tax

  • Pingback: jewelry

  • Pingback: Marketing Digital

  • Pingback: phen375 scam

  • Pingback: marble polishing

  • Pingback: spar 60% p� m�rke solbriller

  • Pingback: cheap viagra

  • Pingback: Download Creative Suite 6 Master collection

  • Pingback: Electric Mini Guitar

  • Pingback: Nikon 1 V2

  • Pingback: best spinner

  • Pingback: Fusevision.com.sg seo marketing services

  • Pingback: Chilli Seeds

  • Pingback: planer boards

  • Pingback: l-tyrosine

  • Pingback: How To Make Youtube Video

  • Pingback: Fusevision.com.sg search engine optimisation

  • Pingback: make money fast online

  • Pingback: over here

  • Pingback: I was reading this

  • Pingback: Extreme weight loss diet

  • Pingback: read more

  • Pingback: wykonczenia wnetrz

  • Pingback: imitation goyard handbags

  • Pingback: see

  • Pingback: KSL Squaw

  • Pingback: shooting bench

  • Pingback: paleo recipe book

  • Pingback: free online classifieds

  • Pingback: cardio workouts

  • Pingback: Get More Information

  • Pingback: sony ax2000

  • Pingback: leappad

  • Pingback: rank site SEO

  • Pingback: lopressor

  • Pingback: lainaa

  • Pingback: mastercard casino

  • Pingback: google sniper review

  • Pingback: Go Here

  • Pingback: acheter louis vuitton

  • Pingback: Visit This Link

  • Pingback: pond5 promotional code

  • Pingback: sushi delivery Somerville ma

  • Pingback: Johnny Shepperdson

  • Pingback: seo fabrikasi

  • Pingback: stables

  • Pingback: paleo breakfast recipes

  • Pingback: more info

  • Pingback: dubai real estate

  • Pingback: Read more about web design

  • Pingback: legal steroids

  • Pingback: web design barrow

  • Pingback: I was reading this

  • Pingback: spybubble weebly

  • Pingback: best supplements for muscle gain

  • Pingback: website services majorg33k.com/store

  • Pingback: buy synthol

  • Pingback: check site now

  • Pingback: the best legal steroids

  • Pingback: umrah

  • Pingback: blog

  • Pingback: Classified Cars

  • Pingback: web design barrow

  • Pingback: toshiba adapter

  • Pingback: gay

  • Pingback: fetish cams

  • Pingback: rv warranty

  • Pingback: easiest astral projection technique

  • Pingback: estate agents glasgow

  • Pingback: Lower left abdominal pain

  • Pingback: check my website

  • Pingback: astral project quick

  • Pingback: supply chain risk management

  • Pingback: Visit This Link

  • Pingback: escorts leeds.

  • Pingback: wrench

  • Pingback: green coffee bean max

  • Pingback: home improvement

  • Pingback: Read This

  • Pingback: Web Site

  • Pingback: simply click the up coming article

  • Pingback: acer charger

  • Pingback: Best Credit Repair

  • Pingback: swissdent

  • Pingback: Steelers

  • Pingback: Homepage

  • Pingback: link to site

  • Pingback: tartamudez tratamiento psicologico

  • Pingback: mortgage help

  • Pingback: ING Direct

  • Pingback: get more tumblr followers

  • Pingback: sushi catering boston

  • Pingback: tas super

  • Pingback: Make Money Youtube

  • Pingback: NHL

  • Pingback: IT

  • Pingback: Remote Control

  • Pingback: haccp zachodniopomorskie

  • Pingback: lecteur carte vitale

  • Pingback: learn here

  • Pingback: Cuccioli Rottweiler

  • Pingback: buy real active instagram followers

  • Pingback: "??? ????? ????"

  • Pingback: Dumpster Deliveries

  • Pingback: mold inspection services

  • Pingback: babies r us gift registry

  • Pingback: annual free credit report

  • Pingback: Youtube Make Money

  • Pingback: http://targetbabyregistry.weebly.com/

  • Pingback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVXfRT84C9g

  • Pingback: bear grylls messer

  • Pingback: cell service affiliates

  • Pingback: super cheap car insurance

  • Pingback: hair loss products

  • Pingback: Medical Practice Marketing

  • Pingback: teen tube xxx

  • Pingback: xbox live

  • Pingback: http://ldlhdlcholesterollevels.org/

  • Pingback: boardman Chiropractic

  • Pingback: Harley Music

  • Pingback: cheap facebook poker chips

  • Pingback: Go Here

  • Pingback: arts and crafts

  • Pingback: Look At This

  • Pingback: likix.blogspot.com