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JD Hayworth: Why I Will Challenge John McCain

In 2000, Senator John McCain asked me to campaign on his behalf for president. I was honored to do so. I remember traveling to South Carolina to act as a one-man truth squad and doing countless television interviews for John. It was a tremendous experience and, as we all know, John came up short. But as always, he fought hard for what he thought was right.

But the John McCain I supported for president in 2000 is not the same John McCain I’ve watched frustrate conservatives time and again as our senator. He still fights hard, all right, but too often for the wrong causes.

It is said that all good humor has a grain of truth in it. So when John McCain jokingly referred to the media as “my base,” we all laughed because we knew how true it was. But the media doesn’t need another senator – Arizona does. And Arizonans want a senator who will listen to them all the time, not just when there’s an election. So I will soon formally announce that I will challenge John McCain in the Republican primary for senator.

I have the utmost respect and admiration for what John McCain has given to our country over the years. And this election will be about serious policy differences, not personalities. Let me begin by detailing where I think John McCain has gone wrong. For starters, John:

  • Voted against the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 (which I helped write), echoing liberal Democratic arguments that they were tax cuts for the rich;
  • Voted for an $850 billion bailout for banks and car companies, which was loaded with special interest earmarks totaling $150 billion;
  • Proposed spending $300 billion to buy up every bad mortgage in America, which National Review called a “full bailout for lenders” (McCain said he got the idea from Hillary Clinton!);
  • Supports a cap and trade scheme that the Wall Street Journal called “an expensive, invasive government bureaucracy” – indeed, McCain once proclaimed, “I don’t know how any conservative cannot support cap and trade;”
  • Wrote the campaign finance law just struck down by the Supreme Court that denied free speech rights to groups like the National Rifle Association while carving out an exception for media corporations like the New York Times;
  • Opposes drilling in ANWR;
  • Opposes the use of the enhanced interrogation techniques that we know prevented at least 4 major terrorist attacks; and
  • Helped write an amnesty plan that would let illegal aliens qualify for Social Security and Medicare, and which the Heritage Foundation estimates would cost taxpayers “at least $2.6 trillion.”

This is not the record of a true conservative, much less a fiscal conservative.

Yet John is trying to make the case that somehow I am not a real conservative, especially when it comes to spending. It is absurd. Aside from my 98% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union (McCain’s rating: 81%), I have a lifetime rating from Citizens Against Government Waste of 89%. John McCain’s? 88%.

Of course, John has a reputation for independence. A healthy dose of independence is a good thing and I’ve never been afraid to buck my party’s leadership when they were wrong – my strong opposition to the Bush/McCain amnesty plan being a prime example. John McCain’s problem is that he has grown independent from those he’s supposed to represent and the conservative values he now claims to champion.

We have serious issues to address over the next six years – taxes, cap and trade, energy, illegal immigration, and spending. For the last six years, John McCain has too often been on the wrong side of them. What makes anyone think the next six years would be different?

As for me, I’m well aware of my personal shortcomings. Hard to believe, but some folks think I talk too much! Well, as a radio talk show host, it was my job to talk. But as the next senator from Arizona, it will be my job to listen.

John McCain is a national treasure – but he has become too enamored of the Washington way of doing things.

Scores of Arizona conservatives have urged me to mount this challenge to bring back reliable conservative representation in the United States Senate, as a Senator for Arizona…not simply from Arizona.  That call will be answered; the challenge will be mounted; and Arizona Republicans will have a clear choice in the August 24 primary.

I’ll have more to say in the coming days and weeks. In the meantime, I encourage everyone at RedState to visit my website at www.jdhayworth2010.com and follow me on Twitter

COMMENTS

  • cary_grant

    Apart from national security and the courts, the most pressing issue is the budget. Which substantial spending cuts will you propose? And will you commit to reversing the growth of the national government, not merely slowing it?

  • zbigreddogz

    As opposed to a futile and destructive run against McCain that, if you should succeed, could lose us the general election and even if it didn’t would beclow the whole Republican party for the same reason Lieberman’s defeat beclowned the Democratic party.

    That’s my opinion. Take it for what it’s worth.

    • AceInTX

      We are BORG…you will be assimilated….resistance is futile!

      • dhorowitz3

        You forgot the Gang of 14. Watch out. All of the venom and unrelenting campaign attacks that McCain refused to unleash on Obama will come your way. McCain becomes a different person when he is running in Republican primaries.

        • youngmonte

          A devastating litany of reasons why conservatives should dump McCain. I’d forgotten many of these and some I didn’t know, but how any Republican, much less any conservative, can look at that record and still prefer McCain is beyond me. If Hayworth can get the money he needs to get out his message, he can win.

        • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

          and someone who has listened fairly regularly to your radio show, & potential voter for you have but one question.

          You have pointed out above that you supported and campaigned for McCain in 2008, yet every point you call out as not in line with conservative principals were done before the 2008 election. And yet, knowing these policies are against your now core beliefs you still choose to support the bid.

          As seen by the great post by Brian Faughnan your track record is essentially synonymous to that of Sen. McCain.

          What do you plan to do to 1) assure the voters that you do indeed plan to act in a “more conservative” mode?

          I will not vote for McCain no matter what so the ball is in your court to prove why I should vote for you.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            (and for the record, I sure didn’t support McCain in that Primary either) but even if he did do some work for a “fellow Republican” and “War Hero” in 2008, he’d bit his tongue, like most of us did as well as plugged our nose, to support the only other available choice (talking General Election, of course) to the (what we all knew to be the ultimate) Radical listed as the JackAss Candidate. MANY supported John because of his Military valor and stance on Security, and little else, and are grateful to have someone finally willing to seriously (yes, I know you folks say it’s not even debatable, but in these days of TEApeaters, it is (like MA) perhaps the one time opportunity) to be rid of the Lead/Chief RINO (most agree, we cannot/shouldn’t destroy ourselves going at any/all RINOs, but the others will be less MAVERICK and RINO if the worst offender is gone) who provides the single most strong example of what is wrong with the Republican Leadership and wrong-headed directions it takes.

          • Vegas_Rick

            I mean, the diary starts: “In 2000, John McCain asked…

            sheesh

          • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

            my question remains valid.

          • travelguy

            Hi JD – I’m in Phoenix frequently on business and always make it a point to listen to your afternoon radio show. You’ve an uphill battle against McCain, but I wish you well. No better time to challenge an incumbent from either party.

        • mbecker908
          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            I’m willing to overlook a whole heck of a lot.

          • mbecker908

            But he’s not. And he will make a fool of himself at our expense and I take that personally.

      • USNJIMRET

        Which is to say that should Mr Hayworth not be able to win the Republican Primary, my donations will go to Mr McCain.
        But my available donations during the primary will NOT go to McCain.
        The seat must remain in Republican hands, even if only as a place holder for a full time Conservative.
        Not one who adopts the mantle when it’s convenient.

        • mbecker908

          And your post here is the precise reason you may get within 35 points of McCain. I’ll vote for you in the primary, but your campaign is a complete waste of precious resources that could be used to win three Arizona House seats, and you will accomplish exactly nothing in the process.

          You’re jousting at windmills for the following reasons.

          • You don’t bother to lay out your platform.
          • McCain has $5MM in the bank, you’re $100+ in the hole.
          • McCain has powerful and very well known endorsements, you don’t.
          • The folks in your former Congressional District have absolutely no use for you.
          • You’ll lose in Southern Arizona (primarily Tucson) by at least a 70% margin.
          • Your old FoxNews appearances and your talk radio sound bites will murder you.
          • You’ve never been able to engage your brain before running your mouth.

          As far as donating to your campaign, I would ask all Redstaters to remember that resources are limited and in lieu of following your heart and hoping for a change in the Arizona Senate seat, make a donation that will really make a difference by donating to a conservative House candidate who can win an will make a difference in Washington. JD served in the House from 1994 through 2006 and never made anything but noise. I would happily support either John Shadegg or Jeff Flake and either of them would have an excellent shot at taking down McCain. JD’s campaign will be nothing more than an expensive, high-profile joke.

          Oh, and for the record, I’ve expanded on all of the above points and the historical and demographic reasons why McCain will crush JD in a bunch of other posts and diaries. I’ll address them at length one at a time if I have to I just didn’t want to write a book here. And, again for the record, John McCain is a man who hung his honor and his sense of duty in his closet when he hung up his Navy uniforms and they haven’t seen the light of day since. We simply don’t have have a candidate in Arizona who can get within 30 points of him in the primary (unless somebody can convince Shadegg to run).

          • http://www.phxgonline.com phxg

            Here’s a great alternative (in JD’s former dist no less) David Schweikert.

          • mbecker908

            and here’s one for Jesse Kelly in Giffords District.

          • aesthete

            and live in the adjacent one. Jesse Kelly’s a great candidate, former Marine, and can win, folks. Credit and Debit cards are accepted.

          • kchand

            I attended a fund raiser for him a week ago in Paradise Valley with a very healthy crowd and chatted with him. Here is his current website and will be going to see him and Grover Norquist tomorrow night.

            We MUST take out the blue-dog in this CD, this time!

            Go David … http://www.david10.com/

          • youngmonte

            Allow me to address a few of mbecker908

          • mbecker908

            1. You may want to make this race about McCain but that won’t work. JD is too well known in the state and McCain is too well funded. JD’s history and his mouth got him tossed from his House seat in what should have been a safe Republican district, even if it is trending purple.

            2. Yeah, endorsements mean nothing, except McCain’s endorsements will be Sarah Palin and Scott Brown. Those will mean something. McCain also has the ability to raise untold amounts of money (and this time with Palin’s help), JD hasn’t been able to raise $100K to pay off his ’06 legal bills.

            3. You’re a damn fool and a clueless one at that. Like it or not McCain’s status as a veteran and POW and “American Hero” will get him truckloads of votes around Tucson and in the Sun City areas where he is “one of them”. It’s not a matter of being “liberal” and that’s a title that can’t be pinned on McCain with any more veracity than “conservative”. It’s a matter that JD was in the House for six terms and did basically nothing but get his face on Fox. He will attack McCain and the folks noted above will take it personally.

            4. JD is less articulate than George W. Bush. He gets in front of a crowd or a camera and he simply makes a fool of himself. He’s done it a thousand times and it’s precisely what cost him his House seat. He’s a bombastic bomb thrower and while that may whip up the faithful it provides red meat for sound bites that are down right embarrassing. Combine that with the fact that the AZ Republic and Tucson Red Star both have absolutely no use for JD and the TV stations think he’s a well of foolishness and you’ve got six months of really bad press coming up.

            5. Politics is exactly a zero sum game. If it weren’t why do people make such a big deal out of the monthly fund raising numbers and “cash-on-hand” figures for the parties. You make such a lame point here I’m not even going to address it.

            6. This election isn’t about McCain “strength”. It’s about the FACT that JD Hayworth is a well known and solidly perceived fool. His only campaign point is “Hey, I’m not McCain”. It’s also about the FACT that AZ is not a conservative state by any stretch of the imagination, it’s purple and libertarian. And there’s the money thing.

            7. This is no Massachusetts Miracle, JD Hayworth is no Scott Brown and John McCain is certainly no Martha Coakley. McCain won’t take a vacation from the campaign, he has a huge money lead (which Coakley didn’t have after the Dem primary) which won’t get any closer, he’s a much better campaigner than JD in Arizona and he’s already working to crush JD with campaign ads.

            In November when JD was first discussed, he was two points behind McCain. In January, when nothing had really happened except some speculation that he might run, McCain’s numbers went from 45 to 53 and JD fell from 43 to 31. McCain’s ads hadn’t really started when the second poll was taken. When JD opens his mouth those numbers will be a fond memory.

            With respect to the race “being about the incumbent”, you’d better hope not. Rasmussen notes in their January polling

            Still, 74% of likely GOP Primary voters have at least a somewhat favorable opinion of McCain, a figure that has not changed since November. Hayworth

          • zbigreddogz

            just FYI.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            If McCain believes he has it in the bag:

            1. Why did his campaign call me in September of 2009 to ask for my support — because I’m a precinct committeeman?

            2. Why does John McCain feel the need to spend money on radio ads against a non-candidate?

            3. Why did John McCain refuse to meet with conservative precinct committeemen from six Arizona counties who wanted to ask him about his “leadership” in developing a strategy to use the Senate Standing Rules to slow down and eventually kill Obamacare and every other boneheaded Dem legislative proposal? (Kyl refused, too.)

            4. Why did John McCain NOT attend his home county GOP annual meeting on January 16?

            Thank you.
            ColdWarrior
            No More Sozzafavas!
            Become a Republican precinct committeeman. NOW!

          • mbecker908

            As far as why McCain did or didn’t do specifics, you’d have to ask him. He and I aren’t on speaking terms. I will venture some guesses, but they’re just guesses…

            1. I would guess that McCain’s campaign is leaving no stone unturned and they call all PCs.

            2. Nobody ever said JD Hayworth is a “non-candidate”. I’ve said time and again he’s not a viable candidate, but he is capable of mounting a challenge and McCain won’t for a second let that go unanswered. As I’ve noted before John McCain isn’t Martha Coakley and JD Hayworth isn’t Scott Brown.

            3. I’m guessing both Senators felt like it would be an exercise in futility. I can tell you that it would be pointless for McCain to meet with me and discuss anything. He can’t make a case to me for his record. I’d much rather be represented by Susan Collins.

            4. No clue but I would guess my answer to #3 is close.

            Look, I’m not defending McCain. I’m way beyond “I don’t like him”. I’d love to see him beaten and slink off to Sedona with his tail between his legs. JD is just the wrong guy to do it. I’ll vote for JD in the primary and I’ll most likely vote for the Democrat in November. I would most likely vote for Lucifer over McCain.

            The only point I am making here – that NOBODY has even tried to refute – is that JD has absolutely no chance. He’ll be really lucky if he gets within 30 points of McCain. He’s a lousy candidate, he was a lousy candidate when ran against Mitchell. People – not necessarily “conservatives” – in metro-Phoenix are absolutely disgusted by the guy, they think he’s a first rate jerk. McCain will crush him in CD5, JD’s old district, it won’t even be close.

            This campaign makes jousting at windmills look like a noble undertaking and if we don’t win the three House seats we should take this year because of a lack of resources you can lay the blame squarely at JD’s feet.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            1. I believe McCain’s campaign began calling PCs as early as Sept., 2009 because he is SCARED. He actually believes he could lose the primary.

            2. I believe McCain ran ads the “non-candidate” J.D., who at the time of the ads had made no announcement that he was going to run for anything, because, again, McCain is SCARED. He probably hoped those ads might discourage J.D. from running. And he knew J.D. could not respond. And I have heard, and it’s just a rumor, and I don’t recall the source, that McCain had his lawyers contact J.D.’s radio station KFYI about the legality of having J.D. remain on the radio while talking about whether he was going to run.

            3. McCain and Kyl won’t meet with their own party’s concerned precinct committeemen because they know their “strategy” was pathetic and cowardly and they just don’t want to have one or more of the PCs tell them that to their faces. See:

            http://www.redstate.com/sjkohut/2010/02/02/a-tale-of-two-az-senators-and-healthcare-reform/

            4. I believe the reason McCain did not attend the Maricopa County Rep. Party annual meeting is because he feared getting booed in public. Many Tea Partiers attended as spectators, and as brand new PCs, and I believe he would have been booed. Roundly. Whereas J.D. was warmly received.

            I’m just hoping that you are wrong about J.D.’s prospects. Thanks for your insights.

            ColdWarrior
            No More Scozzafavas!

          • mbecker908

            I’m not so sure he’s “scared” as “prudent”. Heck, if I was in his shoes I’d try to take out a challenger before he announced. It’s cheap and quick and I’m personally a fan of both.

            I also have no doubt about both McCain and Kyl being booed and not showing up.

            The problem, at least in this cycle, is that the PCs aren’t really going to be able to have any real effect on this particular election, unless you know something I don’t – and I’m sure you do.

            The real issue here is that JD is going to be a really lousy candidate. He’s got huge history here in Maricopa County and people are just tired of listening to him. He’s a whiner. He’s also a veritable goldmine of sound bites. And, as SteveLA notes below, his record as a congressman is all talk and not just no action, but bad action.

            People are carried away in this election by their, shall I say, hatred for John McCain. And it’s properly placed hatred. But you’ve still got to have a credible candidate to beat him. You know as well as I that 90%+ of the voters pay no attention to politics and don’t understand most of what we all talk about here every day and they will make up their mind while watching flag draped commercials extolling the virtues and experience of an American hero. And then there will be JD’s commercials attacking him on issues that people don’t care about and don’t understand.

            Finally, I really do think either Shadegg or Flake would have an excellent shot at beating McCain – or Kyl. And either – or both – would be a vast improvement.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            people understand Palin is being loyal and repaying the favor of being the VP choice… and nothing more…. her supporters will FORGIVE her for NOT automatically follow it… Granted, there are some caught up in the cult of personalilty that leads to the Palinbot teasing (which, for the record if folks don’t know me, I like Palin but I support no-one as the “only choice” and/or “Savior of the Party” -like ObaMania- type non-sense), but most of them are NOT that “simple” as to not follow what’s going on in this case. It would be nice to see some Palin-bot acknowledge or deny though lol.

          • mbecker908
          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            stating now

            I

          • mbecker908

            JD Hayworth won’t get within 30 points of McCain and if anything it will embolden McCain to really show conservatives what he’s made of for the next six years.

            If you want to beat McCain in the primary, talk to John Shadegg or Jeff Flake. Either of them could make a credible run and their CD’s are safe “R” seats. I would be leading the parade for either of them. They are solid conservatives, have shown real leadership in Congress and would be able to run fantastic campaigns against McCain. They could both raise enough money to make the race competitive and wouldn’t be susceptible to the pounding that McCain is going to level JD with – and that would be with his own words.

            Both of those two are popular with the base and will attract the libertarian/moderates as well and either of them is more conservative than JD.

            JD Hayworth isn’t going to send McCain a message he doesn’t already have. He knows full well the base has no use for him. They’ve been waging a campaign against him in Maricopa County for the last two years. See ColdWarrior’s comments if you need first hand info.

            The point, again for the part of the cubby that keeps electing Marxist Democrats in their own state, is that JD Hayworth cannot win this primary. I’m not defending McCain. I’m saying that we are wasting time, effort and resources that could be used to win races. Two years from now JD Hayworth will be a has-been talk show show host a former Congressman and the guy who got crushed by John McCain. And he’ll be trying to pay off an even bigger debt than he’s got now.

            There are fools and damn fools. You’re the latter.

          • Richard Mullins

            and remember that JD doesn’t really have a chance. It’s not going to do much but we are smart, we’d subtle from now until 2016 to push Shadegg or Flake to go against the McCain’s crazy daughter(I’m sure he’ll hang it up and tell the world he won’t run in 2016). We have a good shot then but now not so much. I can’t be all that stupid.

          • zbigreddogz

            I don’t support a primary challenge to McCain period, but if someone were pushing Shaddig, Franks or Flake, I’d understand and wouldn’t really throw a fuss.

            Saying JD Hayworth is some kind of great guy we should support is just a little more then I can stand.

          • mbecker908

            He’s not at all well known outside his district and McCain would kill him on name rec alone. He’d do better than JD though.

            Either Shadegg or Flake would give McCain a real run. They’ve got no real baggage, are well known statewide, can raise money and have good organizations.

          • zbigreddogz

            I was merely saying I thought they wouldn’t be embarrassing candidates. I could understand people voting for them. I like Franks, I think he’s a good Congressman.

            I frankly don’t understand why any well-balanced person who actually wanted to win would back Hayworth.

          • mbecker908

            he’s a really good guy. I knew him pretty well before he went to Washington and he’s a really fine man.

            I actually think that Shadegg or Franks could make a real run at McCain and I’d call it 3-5 points either way.

          • kchand

            I’ve lived in AZ for over 40 years. I would LOVE to see McCain lose for all the reasons mentioned along with getting rid of another old guy that doesn’t know when to leave.

            I would LOVE to see John Shadegg run!!! He is a TERRIFIC guy. A solid and consistent conservative and a great father, husband, etc. His dad worked in the Goldwater campaign.

            I just don’t know that he would take on McCain, but, I’ve hoped for several years that he would be the next junior senator.

            If I can’t have that John, I will support JD, even with the ‘baggage’. I don’t think anyone should preclude JD. Why not let him pursue him in the primary? It doesn’t seem, from your comments, that he will raise much money or attract too much attention. I don’t think he will ‘bloody’ McCain.

            Have you heard the ads McCain has already been running, endlessly, against JD? Creepy, weird ads with a whispering lady.

            JD, you have my vote. I will hold my nose AGAIN and vote for McCain if he is in the general. *sigh*

          • Scope

            You in fact have figured out the reality, as well as ColdWarrior. When you have a chance to get rid of the worst Senator sitting in the senate today, even by beckers description, you are correct in pointing out the all over the map posts. What my question is, is Hayworth worse than the Maine Twins? It makes no sense to say you will vote for someone in the primary that you continually bash and demean, and then, say you will vote for them, and the Democrat in the General.

          • Scope

            n/t

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            had a reply-to error, kindly see my reply to you here. Regards. The gist, it is nothing personal with McCain nor anyone here, though some keep needing to degrade to that to attempt (like Liberal used tactic) to quiet debate.

          • mbecker908

            showing how anyone can overcome the advantages McCain has and take advantage of the problems he’s got.

            McCain’s got lots of baggage. Hayworth has even more. It’s obvious that you know nothing about him other than he’s running against McCain. Do some homework, write a diary and tell us how he can win. And address the issues I’ve raised that you ignore every time you post one of your little exercises in stupidity.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            … it seems, not trying to put words in your mouth, and I don’t wish it to sound inflamitory because I’ve been begging for this to step down from why some keep seeming to throw Personal grenades…..

            In some respects, WE WIN, IMO (and some others) demostrating the challenge and acknowledgement that McCain and his followers are the problem with the GOP and some of them must be tossed in order for us to move forward…. I’m making no specific IN AZ STRATEGY argument (and won’t begin to, as CW as pointed out there are enough Precinct Project folks going to step up to do whatever they can to promote anyone over McCain, I can/will leave those District by District strategy issues to them) beyond that…..

            How many thought Hoffman had a real shot?

            How many thought, early on, Brown had a shot?

            How many REAL chances did we have when we pushed the Conservative Revolution in the 90′s…. we had some surprises then, we can have some now… Many folks have had that last straw of McCainiac-ism and it may be enough. Granted, not the best ground-work for a strategy… I ADMIT THAT… but I’m not going to not bother to encourage folks to try. Again, I understand your concern for spreading our monies thin… I do… It is certainlly a point that has MERIT, which I’ve said so, as long with the “gotta have the numbers – Any ‘R’” discussions…. This may be the one last good chance, and I want to take it… Let JD lay out a strategy, let’s encourage him where we think it makes sense, attempt to change his mind and try what some might consider a better track… but let’s not just keep pounding him before we get started is about the bottom line from what most are trying to say. It is long past time that we show Conservatives across the Country we are serious about a more Conservative GOP Leadership….. Win or Lose in this Primary…. the challenge in and of itself proves something…. You may disagree.. FINE. Just leave it at that, you made you points, we’ve made ours. No need to make it anything beyond that!

            This is the year of the TEA Party people’s voices to step up and be heard and OPPORTUNITIES to be taken advantage of where they would otherwise not be possible. I agree it is an up-hill climb, but as with MANY potential races… Things have culminated and the throw the bums out (and unlike other years, some are finally willing to say) INCLUDING MY BUM (or in MA, our Party clone bum).

            Is there a need to have anything more than that to start with? Really?!?!?

            No David’s shall ever beat any Goliath’s if they constantly listen to folks to never bother to try….I agree JD can often open his mouth and put both feet in there… We need to have folks around (like the Dem’s have with Franken) to keep him on track, on message, and take this shot. Why is that so runreasonable?!?!?

          • aesthete

            Why do I keep repeating that? Oh, no reason, really. BTW, Ned had a 1000% better chance than JD at beating Lieberman than JD does of beating McCain.

            “How many thought Hoffman had a real shot?

            How many thought, early on, Brown had a shot?”

            The locals on RS, nearly all of whom, in this case, say to varying extents that McCain will win this one. No RINO speechifying will stop that from happening, and there are enough things for conservatives in AZ, and nationwide, to worry about to waste our time, money, and support on the fruitless endeavor of making JD AZ’s second Senator.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
          • aesthete

            Ned was much better situated than JD to win, and still lost, mostly because people in CT actually liked Joe just fine, at least relative to Ned.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            cuts both ways too, of course, there are some arguing hey this race is probably going to be a win…. okay… Why bother to help then, they should do fine on their own….. No need for money… no need for volunteer time… No-one is going to be so idiotic as to declare such, but it does further illustrate the “why bother” approach

            McCain would have been the 2000 Presidential nominee with the WHY BOTHER approach, and most understand and see it despite others – likewise: you gotta find me a perfect candidate before they’ll bother – I prefer to only be on pre-declared winners bandwagon approach (yes, of course, that is a bit of a stretch, people get the point – the ones open to bothering to want to get the point of the discussion rather than deflecting back to discussion Z while we’re talking about X).

            This is an uphill battle, no doubt. I want to bother to try, and some just can’t get past having a difference of opinion on it. Where is there 100% assured strategy for any and every Candidate they support? that they demand here. Just a convenient deflection, of course. It starts with having someone to develop a strategy WITH!

          • mbecker908

            Well, as a football coach I once knew said “There ain’t no ‘mv’ column. Only ‘W’ and ‘L’”.

            In point of fact we do not “win” by promoting a lousy candidate into a slaughter and that is exactly what will happen. McCain has no love for conservatives – and probably none for Republicans either – and this will just make him even more prone to “maverick” behavior than if we just let him beat Simcox and Deakins and go back to DC.

            The bottom line is that Hayworth isn’t a credible candidate – and nobody’s made, or even tired to make, the case that he is. All he is is an empty suit with some name recognition who isn’t McCain.

            You can’t compare Hayworth to Scott Brown or to the ’94 Revolution with anything even closely resembling a straight face. Both were the result of a perfect storm. In ’94 Gingrich had spent several years ripping at the Dems and when he put The Contract together that was the real deal. Combined with the nearly constant state of corruption the result was a clean sweep.

            Scott Brown was an outstanding candidate with absolutely no baggage. Coakley was a horrible and a lazy candidate. They started the general run about even in money and she took a couple of weeks off. And then when she came back she worked half days. That will not happen here. McCain’s already demonstrated that he’s paying attention and has no intention of not showing up. Combined with the historical hatred for JD by all the news media and JD’s ability to say really stupid things, it will be a slaughter.

            JD’s strategy is in the original post. “McCain sucks and I’m not him.” He’s got nothing else. He can’t run on his “conservative record” as a Critter because he was a profligate spender. He’s got no money and no organization. He’s got a small number of cheerleaders who are encouraging enabling him. Every dollar he spends will be a dollar pissed into the desert that could help us win a House seat.

            All this challenge will prove, when all is said and done, is that we were ripe for the plucking. This is no “up hill climb”. It would be for Shadegg or Flake, but they would have a shot at the win. In JD’s case, this is a downhill slide. Is there any need to have some desire to throw the bums out? You damn right there is. There is the requirement that we have a viable candidate. Scott Brown was that candidate, JD Hayworth is not.

            And, JLD, you have yet to make a point, beyond “McCain’s a bad guy”. Beyond that you’re spraying into a high desert wind.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            let’s play that game, which is the angle your playing… The candidates you INSIST we should otherwise be supporting because they have a chance… Your personally developed 10 point plan for each and every single candidate your pushing?!?!? The 100% assurance it is a sure fire victory?!?! The list of 100% supporters agreeing, wow yours is exactly the ONLY approach and you should be campaign manager for every candidate…. Since you demand we have such up front…. You demand it before ALLOWING US to even consider challenging McCain…. You keep insisting JD has ZERO to start with, and it is simply not true as he has a following… Again, whether he has the best chance to win, maybe not, but he is NOT starting from Zero – well, except the absolute granted of his bank account, but it will be the recognition of the TEA Party folk and/or in-State folks, that have just had it with John (being the anti-Candidate is indeed not the best position to start a campaign with, like MA Republicans being NOT DEADY KENNEDY which thankfully grew to more than that), to want to enter into this and quickly give him money and help. The help doesn’t come, if you don’t throw the hat into the ring (or having previously created an “exploritory committee” but we are time-frame well beyond that).

          • aesthete

            non-natives. In the case of NY-23 and MA, there were enough natives who thought it could be won (Swamp Yankee’s one outstanding example I remember off the top of my head). In AZ’s case, the opposite is true: natives from Flagstaff, Phoenix, Tucson, and other places around AZ, from a number of different backgrounds, have overwhelmingly arrived at the same conclusion: JD can’t win it, and is a bad candidate. There’s gotta be a reason for that, and it doesn’t help your case that you rely on national trends, when more local and specific information is available. This is one that we are going to lose, whether it’s fair or not. Let’s give money to conservative candidates who can use it well.

          • mbecker908

            Lay out just how JD can win this. Until then you and JLD are engaging in nothing more than mental masturbation that won’t get McCain out of Washington and could cost resources that could be used to win seats where we’ve got a viable candidate.

            And I’ll note that if John Shadegg or Jeff Flake were running I’d be at the front of the parade because either of them would have a good shot at beating McCain.

            Put up or shut up Scope. Knock off the “hopychangy” crap and tell us how McCain can be beaten. Address the points I’ve made – that so far NOBODY has even tried – and then we can have a discussion. Until then you’re just raising our CO2 footprint for no good reason.

          • AceInTX

            at least to the point where you have to be an insulting ass about it?

          • aesthete

            everybody talks about how JD can win if we just believe (presumably while inspirational, or indie music plays in the background), but the basic game plan of these posts goes as follows:

            1) Support JD!

            2, 3, 4, & 5) …

            6) JD wins! Buy yourself a lager!

            ColdWarrior is the only person who has posted in favor of JD who has articulated good reasons for why JD might win, and as much as I respect him, they’re a long shot. Even youngmonte, who appears to have more than cursory knowledge of JD, simply states reasons why he believes that JD is a great conservative, not how he can win. Those of us in the state state, quite regularly, the insurmountable challenges specific to JD, and ones applicable to all candidates facing McCain, on a regular basis. Chant conservative truisms all you want, but that won’t change a thing about JD’s electability, or rather, lack thereof. Vote for JD if you live in the states, but for God’s sake, don’t donate to JD. You might as well flush your money down the toilet and watch it swirl round and round.

          • AceInTX

            I think it was a naive and stupid move on her part and It’ll stick in my craw forever!

          • BlackConservative

            Is it too early for Marco 2012….

          • AceInTX
          • BlackConservative

            People latch on to any pretty face in the party. I’m not voting for McCains clone after we just had to stomach him 2 years ago.

          • AceInTX

            People latch on to any pretty face in the party.

            I just hope we have better choices than we did in 08…it galls me the Huckabee and Romney are at the top of the polls….THAT HAS TO CHANGE!

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            you mean the Jindal bandwagon is over… guess that was so few months ago… Glad you said it amongst all this clutter, the subtle reminder of how we don’t need a Cult-Of-Personality…. Would be nice if we could finish these 2010 races before the Savior instances start up again. Wonder who the next “Wonder” will emerge as the must-be-2012-candidate. Brown will be so last week soon.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            I was taking the word of whomever (openly admitting we’re dealing with 3rd hand info) it was that mentioned it happened because it makes sense that the VP of the last ticket would say something “nice” about the person she shared the ticket with…. Did anyone really expect anything other? I mean, I know some (certinaly not us) supporters like to think she’s above these “Politics” … but really?? Now, if she gones on and on about it as we move forward, I’ll be more than happy to slam her for it with anyone/everyone else. But again, really? You expect to provide at least a tacet mentions regarding former running mates? I expect some minor “support my friend” (read: hey, we ran togehter) and I expect that most will see it for only about that – unless it gets too thick and I will more than happily drop my defense of whatever the comment was (again, not sure what it was, guessing it was the usual obligatory fellow Republican “support” comment and general offer to “help” and maybe stop by for an appearance to stand by said “friend”),

            Some folks have been concerned about her playing the Tea Party Third party calls, to which I saw first hand her response to such calls when she was on Beck stating that she wants it to be clear to them she feels the only way forward is them to work with us to push Conservatism. All her choices and decisions are NOT going to be great ones. No Candidate nor Conservative activist is Perfect!

            Take Care….

          • AceInTX

            Mbecker908 overstates McCain

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            even still…. as discussed in one of Brian’s (don’t remember which: the need to Toss McCain NOW!) and even more toss McCain discussion (here)) about him working with Bayh and providing him CINO cover (like when/where: 3 R’s give 3 weak D’s duplicity coverage voting FOR Omnibus spending).

          • Finrod

            .

          • Achance

            leave ‘becker out of this. You might have noticed that she’s sorta living up to my expectations of her.

          • AceInTX
          • Achance

            But I’m doing the best that I can.

          • Finrod

            Though, the distinction I’ve drawn between you in the past re Palin is that you at least have reasons for your loathing of her, even if I disagree with your reasons.

      • mbecker908

        This campaign is a fools mission at best. It’s a “feel good” effort for guys like you and will steal resources from AZ House races.

        • hoosierteacher

          Erick of Red State recently wrote an article attacking Indiana republicans for supporting Dan Coates because Coates retired some years ago.

          Like you, Coates continues to serve conservatism. In fact, Coates went on to work under the Bush administration.

          As a fellow “re-tread”, would you agree with me that politicians who have left office for a time are no less competent to serve their country than liberal democrats?

          Thank you, and I wish you luck in your campaign.

          • Michael Dugas

            Isn’t that kind of a waste of time? His only answer can be that he agrees with you because he says he IS going to run.

          • Scope

            Why don’t you find the guts to address Erick directly as to your disagreement. To ask this of Hayworth makes you look very assinine, and not just a little angry. Erick Erickson has the right to defend or not defend anyone he chooses, just as you have that same benefit.

          • zbigreddogz

            Not requiring him to justify the logic of his positions! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!!

          • Aaron Gardner

            Get a clue.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            Between someone who is defeated – i.e., goes down trying – and someone who walks away for a lobbying job.

          • zbigreddogz

            Just curious.

          • sjkohut

            Cold Warrior is dead on about the PC

          • mbecker908

            Jim Deakin couldn’t raise enough money to take you to breakfast.

            You better hope everybody isn’t focusing on JD, it will just remind them – like McCain will do repeatedly and like JD will also do – why they tossed him on his butt in favor of Mitchell.

            You’re hanging out in an echo chamber and flat out ignoring the reality of the election. Yes lots of people have no use for McCain. A whole lot more have no use for JD. McCain will run a solid campaign and crush JD with his own words. McCain’s heresy’s are old news to most of the people in this state and JD is and always has been a pain in the butt.

            McCain will play to win in this race, hopefully his last. What Arizona Republicans should be focusing on is making sure his ditz daughter doesn’t follow in his footsteps. We’ve got 6 years to groom a solid candidate to take his office and we should use it. We shouldn’t be pissing away resources on JD. Or Deakin.

        • AceInTX

          You’ve made your point…JD doesn’t have a chance…he’s a loud mouthed blow hard…blah blah blah…

          I agree with you on much of what you’ve said…you’ve also said you’d vote for JD if it came down to it…and your dead white cat before you’d vote for McCain…

          But every time someone comes out for JD and get’s fired up about taking down the biggest POS in the Republican Senate Caucus…there you are to throw cold water on them and berate them for not giving a crap and wanting to make the fight…

          I know you hate McCain because we were there side by side during the shut up and get in line wars last year…but you couldn’t do a better job carrying water for the old prick if you were to get on the campaign trail and shill for him with your every waking moment than you have here lately!

          If JD doesn’t have a chance…then fine…but why expend the energy you are wasting going after us for wanting to take up this challenge!

          If we’re wasting time and effort trying to send a message…it’s out time and effort…

    • JadedByPolitics

      JD Hayworth or ANYONE for that matter taking on John “the Maverick” McCain who takes more pleasure out of KICKING Conservatives for the first 4 years of every 6 years he is elected has the full support of ME & I can guarantee you EVERY TEA Party Patriot across this great country. McCain is the PROBLEM with DC he is an insider who benefits HIMSELF and could give a crap less about We The People.

      He like Lindsay Graham always talk and walk the Conservative mantle beginning in the 4th year of their reigns and then go about DESTROYING the Republican brand and wallowing in the “brotherhood” of the Senate with liberals because the reality is they are PROGRESSIVES.

      You can sit back and lob pathetic opinions at JD but at least he is going to give it the college try and BTW that is what primaries are for and if it takes all the millions McCain has to fight for that Senate seat then good for US. He is one person who should NEVER feel comfortable EVER AGAIN in his seat.

      I have two Republicans now in my district where once there was one who will battle it out to take on a Democrat am I happy that money will be spent against one another? NO but I am happy that the people of my district have a say in who gets to run under the banner of Republican.

      • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

        we have to show them why it is that we INSIST they have to be working within the Republican Party to make sure it adheres to the Conservative GOP Platform and not continue to be watered down by bad example Progressive RINOs and the Lead RINO is the key example. Win or Lose in the Primary challenge, we move to showing those Independent squishes that hadn’t paid enough attention to bother to actually get off the fence and off their lazy hind-sides and ACT in a place and manner that actually helps to get more Conservative Candidates elected. This day and age of TEApeats is the best opportunity, short of the McCainiac (Mr. Progressive Mavrick) retiring, to show exactly why they can’t be Independent and actually/truly matter – always waiting on General Elections to get their duffs has never cut it. And, of course, the Third Party failing some are trying to lead them to – well, whole other discussion.

        to the Indepents: If you are NOT Republican — you are helping Liberalism/Progressive-ism….. It is that simple…. you claim to care (Liberals are good at that, and of course never doing anything) but now is the times you need to show (above/beyond showing up to the TEApeats – Yes, that’s great) you REALLY want to help the Conservative movement by working with those os us that have been serious about and and trying to keep the GOP on the RIGHT where it belongs.

        Anyway, again, with people finally again actually attempting to stand up for Conservative values/principles, it will be nice if we can harness it and get our Party back on the Right path.

        Someone further down mentioned Brians Diary, to point out some negative comments there, I wish to mention it again (it’s here) for the many that support (finally) a challenge.

    • Scope

      and the others you have posted disrespectfully to Erick Erickson, you are making a complete ass of yourself. You are fighting for a “good conservative” elsewhere, and, here you are fighting for the poster child of RINO’s. McCain needs to be beaten before he sells the party down the road of progressivism any farther. McCain is as dangerous as Obama, the difference between them is age, it takes McCain a little longer to get there.

      • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

        I have yet to meet a conservative recruited from the grass roots conservative Tea Party/9.12/WeSurroundThem/Second Amendment/Anti-Shamnesty/etc. groups into the Arizona Republican Party precinct committeemen ranks who will vote for John McCain in the primary.

        Not only will they not vote for McCain in the primary, many have said they will not vote for McCain in the general election. They are steamed.

        And they are thrilled that J.D. will be running against McCain.

        Thank you.
        ColdWarrior
        No More Scozzafavas!

        • mbecker908

          McCain could be beaten. JD isn’t the guy.

        • Scope

          for posting your insider information. You do give me hope that McCain can be defeated. Hey, at least you were not accused of being a young dumb idiot.

          • mbecker908

            it’s hopeless.

            CW is not by any stretch a young dumb idiot. He’s a committed guy and he’s absolutely doing the lord’s work. But distaste for the incumbent isn’t going to change the fact that McCain is going to get way over 60% in the primary and JD will make a complete fool of himself along the way. And he won’t realize he did it.

          • Scope

            and, you have done everything you possibly can to make sure that anyone who reads here knows that Hayworth is a loser and worse. If he is such a loser, why would you say that you will “vote for him” in the primary? I understand your more than a small dislike of McCain, but, isn’t it a losing argument that you will vote for someone that you constantly bash and denigrate, and then say you will vote for him in the primary? Somehow, 5 + 5 isn’t equaling 10 here.

          • mbecker908

            in detail why McCain will win this primary and why JD Hayworth is a lousy candidate who will get crushed. I’ve also noted that I would be at the front of the parade if Shadegg or Flake would run against McCain and either of them would have a pretty good shot at beating him.

            I’ve also said – many times – I’ve never voted for John McCain in a statewide race and I won’t start now. Sure I’ll vote for JD. So will about 20% or so of Arizona Republicans. I’ll vote for the Dem in Nov along with about 20 of Arizona voters. I’ll vote against McCain. Not for JD. I frankly don’t like him any better than I like McCain. FWIW the only place in Arizona more dangerous that standing between McCain and a news camera is standing between JD and a news camera.

            Go back over what I’ve written, it’s easy to find. If you don’t like the reasons I’ve cited as to why this is a fools errand then write a diary about just how you think JD is going to overcome his problems and McCain’s built in incumbent advantage and win. Until then, you’re just babbling “hope’n'change” and looking like a damn fool doing it.

          • AceInTX

            when this is all said and done after the way you’ve gone after people who should be your friends here

          • JX12

            I can’t stand John McCain, but not even I will do that. Better to have a Republican (albeit in name only) who will stand with us at least part of the time, than a Democrat who will stand with us pretty much none of the time. It’s not the party of Dennis DeConcini anymore.

            In the meantime, I will be casting my vote for JD in the primary. If he manages to pull out a win, great. If not, I’ll still vote for McCain in the general election (lesser of two evils, and all that).

            Not sure why you would see fit to vote for the Democrat in the general election. Seems to me it would be better to abstain on the Senate seat ballot than to do that.

          • mbecker908

            get upwards of 80% of the vote like he did last time. If it’s close I’ll hold my nose and pretend it’s 2008.

          • Scope

            Republicans/Conservatives other than DeMint and a few others, that were willing to get in front of a camera and stand up for the Republicans/Conservatives. Now that McCain seems to be back in the good graces of the MSM, I’m getting sick of seeing the traitors face, and hearing his weasley little voice. Not saying anything against Hayworth, I don’t know him, but, I’d vote for Beep Beep the Roadrunner over McCain.

          • mbecker908

            He fits right in with the Obama Administration. And, as far as McCain’s “weasley little voice”, the people of CD-5 got even more tired of listening to JD whine on Fox. He was their designated whiner and frankly that’s one of the major reasons he will get crushed in Phoenix (slightly more than half the vote).

            I’d take Beep Beep to either of these guys.

          • AceInTX
    • Repair_Man_Jack

      take it for what it is worth. Not much.

      For starters, John McCain has gone off the reservation numerous times. His patronizing and insulting attitude towards Conservatives makes him increasingly more like Lincoln Chaffey every year.

      McCain’s campaign for office in 2008 repelled conservatives from voting. Hayworth would be preferable if he took John McCain down…

    • mbecker908

      but on this one, you are 150% right. Except for the part about the general election. My dead white cat has higher name recognition and more electability in Arizona than any potential Democrat in the Senate race.

      • zbigreddogz

        And while I agree Massachusetts was a once-in-a-lifetime deal, and I think in this environment it wouldn’t matter for D’s anyway, I think Hayworth would be a disastrously bad general election nominee who COULD lose to just about anybody if he had the money, which this guy does, similar to how Coakley lost. I think he’d be roughly as bad of a candidate as Coakley. (Admittedly, she’d been elected statewide, but she wasn’t really challenged.)

        I admit, it would be a ridiculous long shot, but not TOTALLY impossible.

        • mbecker908

          Phoenix and Tucson are farther apart than LA and NY. The winner of the Republican Primary will win the general handily.

    • jtkell100

      This kind of thinking is whart is wrong with the Republican Party and the reason the Tea Party Movement will run the show. We do not need any more RHINOs in the Republican Party and he is one of the worst. I am from Tennessee and will be donating and supporting JD until he is elected. Sarah will not have much effect on this election. Mccain is against her pet project and the best interest for our nation, drilling in ANWR. I ask the TEA PARTY MOVEMENT TO GET WHOLE HEARTLY BEHIND JD. This is not against you, zbigreddogz. I hope you change your mind.

      • Brian Hibbert

        Also, I suggest you read MBecker’s reasons why throwing money at JD is a waste of money. The “Tea Party Movement”* (or any other group) has a finite amount of resources. Don’t waste them where they will do no good. Find a race that CAN be won, then put your resources into THAT race.

        I’m not a huge McCain fan, but I can understand simple economics.

        Finally, McCain’s not a RINO. Media whore, yes. RINO no.

        *Tea Party Movement is either a local group or a misconception. There is no one group that can claim to be “the movement”. There are many groups that make up the movement and a lot of people who don’t belong to ANY group but are just sick of government waste, corruption and ever increasing taxes.

  • Scope

    I am not from Arizonia, but, I would be thrilled to see McCain retired from his position as “aggitator to the conservatives.” Good luck with your race.

  • aesthete

    This post does a great job of expressing why McCain is a bad candidate, and why conservatives shouldn’t toss a penny his way. What it doesn’t do, is express why you are a good candidate, or how you can win in a hostile primary against a very well-established incumbent. As a Tucson resident, I can tell you that nothing you can do will persuade Tucson primary voters to vote for you. Phoenix will have depressed conservative turnout as a result of your bombastic and theatrical political performances there, and will go for McCain. If you can’t win either, you can’t win in AZ. To that end, I encourage RSers to donate to the cash-starved AZ House races (AZ-01, AZ-05, AZ-08), which all have good conservative candidates running, and in which their money will have impact. Again, thanks for posting, but no thanks.

    • http://itsaboutfreedom.proboards.com Conservative Phantom

      …because some of us will throw money where it’s needed. It’s just a little easier to make it happen if we know where it should go.

      • mbecker908

        Click here and follow the highlighted links… Thanks.

        • SteveLA

          Mr. Hayworth,

          Maybe you’ve heard of a publication called the Wall Street Journal. It lays out a pretty bad picture of you as the sort of big spending Republican that got Republicans thrown out of office.

          “The outspoken former congressman may have talked a good game when he was in the House. But when it came to federal spending he — more than Mr. McCain — was an “enabler” of questionable budget items. It was Mr. Hayworth, not Mr. McCain, who voted for a 2003 prescription drug benefit that added enormously to the nation’s future liabilities. It was Mr. Hayworth who voted for bloated farm and highway bills, while Mr. McCain opposed them. It was Mr. Hayworth who was a consistent seeker and supporter of pork-barrel Congressional earmarks. Mr. McCain, on the other hand, never requested earmarks in appropriations bills and often led a crusade against those he felt were improperly slipped into bills.”

          So here’s the thing, you claim to be a conservative, yet your record as one of the “Spending like Drunken Sailors” Republican is not a good one. Why should people beleive you’ve seen the light on spending now based on your very recent record on spending?

    • zbigreddogz

      I’m not getting involved in this thread, but you are right on.

  • molsen72

    I have read your entire piece. Some of your points are well taken, others are not. I have heard you on the radio. As a registered voter in the State of Arizona, and after due consideration, I will be voting in the primary for Senator John McCain.

    • JadedByPolitics

      ……

      • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

        nt

        • JadedByPolitics

          ….

      • Michael Dugas

        3 month member first post an all. Unless you have some inside info….
        We can’t scare away all the newbies. We must nurture them…..coddle them if you will, before we dash their heads against the rocks below. =)

        • JadedByPolitics

          a dude who was defending McCain left and right oh I don’t know about 6-8 weeks ago with the exact same name perhaps different numbers? and obviously Randy though the exact same thing right? because he commented as I would expect for someone recognizing the same person. I guess only the moderators will know if he is a retread or not but if not I was wrong to pick on him but I am telling you man no way that name is not the same person.

          • Michael Dugas

            See that’s why i added that inside info portion….
            Besides with a name like molsen72 he’s probably a 38 old Canadian troll on a waiting list to have a boil lanced eh.

          • JadedByPolitics

            either I have not been spending as much time on here as usual or you haven’t either way I haven’t seen you posting much so which is it?
            The bottom line is “how in the heck are you”?…heh!

          • Michael Dugas

            But grateful for every hour. Wanted to be Precinct Committeeman but we already have 1 and an alternate. I was invited to join the executive committee though and went to my first meeting Monday past. It’s a start.

            How have you been? Were the holidays good to you? Thanksgiving and Christmas were great and very laid back this year. First time in years we didn’t have relatives come down.

          • JadedByPolitics

            and really the New Year with Brown and all that excitement and momentum after the Christmas Eve vote to DESTROY our country made it all kind of loopy (up and down). I did enjoy my time off from work during the Holidays though.

            I think it is AWESOME that you are working within the apparatus to bring it back to the RIGHT……I cannot tell you how buoyed my heart is by all these Redstater’s actually doing the heavy lifting to bring the country back to its RIGHTFUL place on the Center RIGHT divide and I THANK YOU :)

          • Michael Dugas

            My area of Florida is pretty Conservative but it takes effort to keep it that way. The level of grassroots activity from our side has been hugely encouraging. To see the general population awaken like that
            is an amazing thing to watch and be part of.
            Thanks for the cheerful words, you always make me think AND laugh.
            =)

        • mbecker908

          They should be crushed, burned and their ashes scattered. But not in my desert.

          • Michael Dugas

            My sister lives in Phoenix and from what I hear they could use the jobs there….you know you’ll help with that whole crush/burn/scatter deal and jobs are at a premium these days. Besides it’s not like it’s nuke waste at Yucca Mountain. Besides with the number of trolls out there this could turn into a whole new business.

          • Michael Dugas

            God we need an edit feature. I know I know but for lazy peeps like me it would be a godsend.

  • rfpzzzzz

    I think it takes courage to run and I hope you keep things respectful and on the issues instead of personalities. Pat Toomey went against the party to challenge Specter and finally forced him to show his colors while keeping his basic happy warrior attitude. Toomey has done PA a great service and whatever the outcome I hope AZ +US are better off for your efforts.

  • honorable

    John McCain has had a very good innings as they say in the game of cricket. As JD mentions, he is on the wrong side on most of the issues with his constituents. Global Warming, GTMO, Taxes, McCain Feingold and Free speech. In my opinion JD will be a better representative and Senator form Arizona.

  • http://ruminationsaspirations.blogspot.com jonbingham

    This is a worthwhile effort.
    The reactions above vary based on whether one is a conservative or an establishment Republican.
    Wishing you success against the establishment!

    • mbecker908

      And, other than the pinhead just above, I doubt there’s anybody who doesn’t want to see McCain forcibly retired.

      My comments are simply a recognition of the facts on the ground. You don’t have to like them, hell I don’t. But JD is a bad candidate and McCain has all the money in the world, really strong endorsements from people who will matter to Arizona voters and a very good and experienced statewide campaign team. Hayworth will be running with the Keystone Kops.

      This race is the mismatch of the young century. And again, McCain isn’t Coakley and JD sure as hell isn’t Scott Brown.

      • AceInTX

        My comments are simply a recognition of the facts on the ground.

  • exileonmainstream

    The John McCain of 2000 was considerably more liberal than the John McCain of 2008

    • Michael Dugas

      who has no center or compass so too speak, and goes with whatever seems popular instead of leadership. Of course now that it appears that conservatives might be on the way up he’s changing his grip on one set of coat tails for another. Flavor of the Month so to speak.

    • Finrod

      Go check out McCain’s ACU ratings, I’ve posted them here enough. McCain has been going down down down in the ratings in this past decade. Just off the top of my head I remember that he hasn’t posted a rating above 82 since 1998.

  • mld678

    When JD was part of congress, he was the reason that it started to sink, and the reason? His values and spending

    • mbecker908

      Look pookie, JD may be a lousy candidate and was a mediocre CongressCritter (who I’d sure rather have than Mitchell) but that doesn’t mean that John McCain is anything more than a self-service, self-righteous self-promoter who forgot the meaning of honor and duty 30 years ago. There isn’t a “conservative” molecule in McCain’s body and he’s consistently an embarrassment to my wonderful state.

      Take your trollish behavior elsewhere.

    • Michael Dugas

      conservative? McCain/Fiengold was conservative? Please you can honestly call him a Republican but the man is NOT a Conservative.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    by responding with 5′s to a comment of mine? ;-) lol….

    This has nothing to do with McCain PERSONALLY either… It is all about the opportunity to demonstrate (to other Conservatives outside the party we keep asking to come inside the party and help us keep the Party “Conservative”) we recognize that people who claim “see, look, no difference in the Parties” while they are pointing at John McCain… and it is all about NOT having him around, in any way, shape, or form, to be part of the Leadership (even if it is only as an “elder-statesmen” because even if he were denied “official” Party Leadership, the MSM would be following him around still touting him as the GOP Leadership)… Removing him helps us to have better leverage over other RINOs we will need to keep around in order to have the Majority count numbers. Do others really not believe that the other folks in the GOP we often complain about out of frustration and would “prefer to have someone more Conservative” in that post (recognizing, their State may not afford/allow it) will be more open to our influence rather than; being emboldened, encouraged, cover provided for; by the Lead/Chief Maverick for them to continue to cross over and be MAVERICK/BI-PARTISAN as he?!?!

    McCain stands as the glowing example, mostly (not entirely, he is certainly right on some issues, but it is again the PERCEPTION if nothing else) of the wrong-headed-ness and direction of the GOP that we are eliminating. NOT McCain on a PERSONAL level…. It has been, and will always remain, about the strategy moving forward to/for the best interest of the Country and Party – long term, not just the most immediate need (as I and others have been trying to discuss)!!! And we’lll have some differences of opinions over that along the way, no need for them to go to the Personal level. As, again, it is NOT Personal against McCain, it is all the question about not letting him hang around longer to continue to dissapoint us and feed those other anti-Republican and/or anti-Conservative rhetoric/narratives (especially, MSM spin of them).

    TEApeaters need to join with us and the importance of the Precinct (Committee members) Project – actually fighting for Conservatism, rather than just talking about it and them working to get the GOP more Conservative rather than set the entire country up for another (SOME TEApeaters, 3rd Party mistake – alot of TEApeaters fail to recognize (prepare to repeat) History…) FAILure that gets more Democrats/Liberals/Progressives elected. Had some of them joined us over the last few years, who knows, we may have been able to avoid the DoDo … er… DeDe/Hoffman… fiasco.

    • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

      for whatever reason, the above (if the reply to doesn’t fail again, I need to reboot) was response to scope comment 78 in this diary. But I see he already is getting arrows hitting that target.

    • mbecker908

      And you’re no better than Scope. You keep regurgitating all the reasons nobody here – except for the occasional troll – likes McCain. It’s all meaningless mental masturbation. You have to have a candidate who can win and JD Hayworth is the worst possible candidate who has any statewide name recognition that you could pick. (Sheriff Joe might be worse)

      The whole point is that if you want to take out McCain maybe Shadegg or Flake could do it. JD will get buried and will be an embarrassment in the process.

      Stop with the crap about bad McCain is and write a diary – maybe you could co-write with Scope – and tell us just HOW Hayworth can win this. Please address the issues I’ve raised, because you’ve not bothered to do so yet. Actually, you and Scope, and to some extent Ace, are a lot like JD. You’re whiners with no record.

      • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

        (as well as the spell-checker not always cooperating for me on this old laptop with old s/w)….. as to Reply-To, hence my Kowalski…. and very telling is your need to again drag everything down to you “feeling” the need to get a Personal dig in about it (though, to be honest and fair, you may have been typing your response just when I recognized the reply-to failure and doing my Kowalski. Interesting how some of us can be respectful and fair in pointing out where others are right even if we have a counter-point to make)….

        Likewise….
        Many of us keep discussing X – it is about time that someone is challenging McCain, let’s be encouraging…. Given the climate, now is the time….
        To your If you cannot point out a detailed 100 point roadmap to assured victory why bother (did you ask it of anyone, let alone everyone, else going to challenge — think Rubio to challenging Crist for one — why bother, he’s got the lead, blah, blah, blah)
        as I pointed out here in yet another response to you… to which you’ll go back to arguing Z (wth added personal digs) while the rest of us talk X.

        Did we demand the clear plan for Hoffman, Brown, anyone else?!?!? in order to say we want to support their beginning! No!

        Say whatever you want… I’m just not going to be bother to keep responding to something you can’t grasp…. Either the discussion or the fact there is no need to make things Personal (as it also INS’T with, rather against) McCain).

        We get it…. EVERYONE is the under-dog to McCain….. FINE…. move along if you don’t care to be part of the solution rather than problem… If you have a sure-fired victor, CONVINCE THEM TO RUN rather than pissing all over everyone else being talked about challenging McCain. Yes, there could be better Candidates, but we don’t always have that luxury.

        Take Care… God Bless….

        • aesthete

          I believe this Episode 2,619.

          Anyways,

          Sometimes, there is no solution. Dividing 20 by 0 doesn’t provide progress; just a headache, and supporting JD in lieu of other candidates will prove similarly frustrating. If you don’t believe us locals, hold on to your cash for a month, and establish conditions for which you will donate to JD (ie, > 40% in polls).

        • mbecker908

          Shadegg or Flake could make a credible run at McCain. Hayworth is a joke. And a bad one at that. I would love to be able to convince either of them to make the run.

          And, to JD’s credit, he’s finding a few stupid people to enable this farce he calls a challenge. Try to stay off his mailing list, he’ll be after you for money when he’s way in the hole after McCain slaughters him.

          And I’m still waiting for a rationale as to how he can be competitive. Your examples suck as bad as your logic. Both Brown and Hoffman were credible candidates with organizations and campaigns before they became visible. They were viable before they were visible. Hayworth isn’t.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            I’d prefer someone else! Like any/every race, I go with the list and work through them from most-preferred to who’s left, which is why we had to hold our nose with McCain coming out of the Primaries (but, again, not willing to want to have him around anymore in any shape/form to claim Party Leadership and keep it going in the wrong direction). And many of us have agreed over and over that JD isn’t great, but no candidate is perfect (you have no faith in CW and others to help run a campaign?!?! Not that CW has claimed any part of his campaign, just an example that as CW pointed out many Precinct Project recent joins to the Party hierarchy will be involved and will work for a strategy moving forward)…. otherwise, we have the Candidates we have to work with.

          • mbecker908

            And the very idea that we should spend several million dollars on anybody just because he’s not John McCain is way beyond stupid.

            JLD you are pathetic beyond words.

          • JX12

            Shadegg is my congressman. Great guy. Would love to see him challenge McCain, but – by all indications – that’s not gonna happen.

            What we do have is JD – warts & all. Maybe not my first choice, but I’ll take him. It isn’t simply that he’s not McCain, it’s that he would be more likely to vote my way on important issues than McCain (certainly so on illegal immigration – which, by itself, is enough for me). In any event, he would be decidedly less likely to REACH ACROSS THE AISLE than McCain, which has its own appeal. Is he likely to beat McCain? It doesn’t look that way at this point, I’ll grant. Will I give him credit (and, in this case, my vote) for trying to give Arizona – and the nation – an alternative to Mr. RINO? Yes, I will.

            If you want to throw cold water on people’s enthusiasm for a challenger to McCain, I guess that’s your prerogative; but do you have to go down the road of name-calling? These people aren’t trolls. They’re members in good standing who are posting their heartfelt opinions in good faith. Disagree if you must. Challenge their arguments if you must; but you don’t have to insult them.

          • mbecker908

            raw emotion with a total disregard for the facts on the ground, and who refuse to deal with those facts deserve to have gasoline thrown on them, not water.

            It’s a fools errand and a waste of resources. If JD was self-funding I’d say have at it. He’s not, he’s stealing money and resources from other viable candidates in a year when we might actually be able to win both the House and the Senate.

          • AceInTX

            Since when do these other canddiates own what we may or may not donate to them?

            I didn’t know you supported entitlements…

            just saying

          • Scope

            “If you want to throw cold water on people

    • aesthete

      None that indicate that he can actually be beat. Throwing a significant amount of support behind JD would be as if the Allies had devoted their funds to supporting the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, instead of on D-Day: a noble effort, but totally wasted.

      You see what you made me do? Do you see?! I had to compare freakin’ JD to the Warsaw Jews!! And I *like* the Warsaw Jews.

      • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

        for any reason then?!?!?

        But, I greatly appreciate your willingness to make your points/counter-points respectully…

        But, again, pardon those of us who are willing to want to bother to try. ;-) lol
        No David’s would ever defeat any Goliaths, with the hey he’s big, don’t bother approach. Though, and I have said many times, I can understand and respect the “we have to focus resources elsewhere” POV…. Beyond that, we outright reject the other viewpoints (opinions, whether it is worth bothering to try) for our own (it’s about time, let’s be encouraging and do whatever we can).

        McCain was about the odds on favorite in 2000, why should “W” have bothered?!?!? There are lots of examples people can think of when/where the odds-on finally got knocked off…. These are the days of the UPSETS, mind if we work for one here? That’s all many ask, you want to only be on bandwagons that are sure winners, then we are sure to be losers in the end, IMO. But in the end, it is after all that, an OPINION that’s it’s past due time to try. Light a fire under a better (if you have to insist on Poll determinations, but again, the year of the TEA Parties changes those odds to some degrees not quite measurable up front or at first) Candidate, and we’ll be happy to join!!!!

        Take Care….

        • mbecker908

          I don’t care if the occasional warm body gets thrown against the wall of the voting booth for low level offices. It thins the gene pool. You don’t do that in a US Senate race that will consume in excess of $10MM.

        • aesthete

          I do mind people making a push to give JD, who is an absolute long-shot, and not a good candidate. JD could make a 300-style stand against an army of Mexican drug runners, and nothing would change. Meghan and Cindy McCain could be caught in a menage de trois with Clay Aiken (isn’t that image oddly believable, and difficult to scrub from your mind?), and nothing would change. Both JD and John, unlike Brown and Hoffman, are well-known quantities, and voters have fairly set beliefs about both. Whatever you think of JD doesn’t matter: Phoenix’s voters have already spoken, and declared a rabid dislike of JD. Tucson is Berkeley + a giant AF base and Raytheon, and both demographics are more or less content with McCain. Both will go heavily (easily > 70%) for McCain, and account for about 30% of the population. Southern Tucson (Mexico’s mini-me, complete with drug problems) will also go heavily for McCain. There is no major area where McCain will be uncompetitive; JD will have to fight for every region, and though a good candidate could do that (and could be competitive in Phoenix), JD’s not that candidate. An overwhelming consensus of people who actually live in AZ at present, unfortunately, have come to the same conclusion: that McCain will win this thing in a landslide. Hopefully, our “Hail Dorothy, the Wicked Witch is dead” moment will come sooner, rather than later, but that day is not today.

  • BlackConservative

    Make McCain spend his money elsewhere other than getting to go around the country making mini-mes. We already are stuck with one RINO in Mass, probably another one in Kirk in IL. The only thing worse than McCain is his minions of younger McCains carrying out his mission o fundermining the conservative movement after he retires to be replaced by Meghan ::pauses to vomit::. Look, I get what you are saying, and I understand don’t throw good money after bad. But this is like making the Democrats spend money in their own turf-the more money McCain spends to defend himself, the less money he uses going around the country for the Fiornas, and more importantly, for the Charlie Crists of the world. Because you know he’ll throw all his weight behind keeping our conservative shining star out of the Senate and his RINOs in power. NO point in having a majority with no huevos.

    • aesthete

      If both we and McCain spend money on a race that will ultimately result in his victory, we are wasting resources that could have been used to support Democrats. If we spend money on supporting conservative candidates and McCain spends money on himself and his clones, at least we are putting our money to good effect. McCain can and will raise money on this race, and he’ll probably use the money left over to support other candidates (fun!). We should make sure that our conservative brethren don’t starve for cash because we’re too busy sticking it to “the man”.

      • AceInTX

        make the enemy alway have to look to his rear for fear you are there pillaging his supplies or disrupting his supply line.

        Stonewall Jackson tied down 3 union armies in his lightning raids in the Shenandoah valley by keeping them guessing where he was going to pop up next…

        is it a negative sum game?

        Maybe…but I’m sick mof him peddling his brand of progressive politics on us and pushing carbon copy candidates on us across the country…if all we accomplish is keeping him from funding some other squish because he had to spend it protecting his turf…we’ve won!

        if JD does accomplish a miracle and take him out…so much the better…but as I’ve said a thousand times…you can’t hit a grand slam if you refuse to swing the bat.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    but my feeble mind kept losing it.

    Thank you.
    ColdWarrior
    No More Scozzafavas!

    • AceInTX
      • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

        I am replying to AceInTx’s “huh?? nt” comment to my comment to, if my memory serves me, blackconservative’s comment to mine in this Diary that money spent by McCain on defeating J.D. Hayworth is money McCain won’t be able to spend supporting other squishy Republicans around the county.

        I hit the Reply To This button when making that comment and hit it again when, now, replying to AceInTx’s comment. I don’t know where this comment will end up. I hope it ends up after Ace’s, but who knows? Sometimes, I find, the Reply To This feature simply does not work. I don’t know why. Maybe it doesn’t work in the case where, when you hit it, someone else has already hit the button and posted while you are still drafting. Who knows why? All I know is this feature some times does not work. And I find the snarky “Reply To This is your friend comments,” as a result, ironically amusing.

        Also, the Recommend button has never worked for me. I use Firefox, on a Windows XP machine, and I always have to double-click on the Recommend button two or three times to get the button to “take.” Occasionally, the Recommend button will not work at all for me.

        In the future I will strive to give more context to my comments so that people are not mystified when the Reply To This feature does not work. I hope this comment displays after AceInTx’s comment.

        Thank you.
        ColdWarrior
        No More Scozzafavas!

        • AceInTX

          I often have to click it 2 or 3 times

  • mnrhyre

    This guy was tortured and denied medical care in way that has affected him every day since. I just got back from Iraq 4 months ago. I had a good buddy over there with me. One time we happened to talk about what we would do if our position ever happened to be (unlikely) overrun. We both said we would save a last round/grenade for ourselves rather than be tortured to death on video by the Taliban. So, I am not for reading them their rights but seriously has anyone in here ever been subjected to what they even allow like having your arms wrenched up behind you? It sucks. We need to kill those we can but treat those we catch as well as we treat child murderers here in the states ok? The solution is that we should take fewer prisoners, just like the British general in WW2 who told his troops he didn’t “want to see any SS prisoners”. We in the U.S. need to go the pharmacological route rather than the 12th century. It’s been 50 years since sodium pentothal I am sure we can do better.