What do Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe have in common? Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe are, together, the reason we will be, come Monday (or Friday, if President Obama departs entirely from character and keeps his word for once), $787,000,000,000.00 further in debt, with nothing but ultra-funded pet pork projects in heavily Democratic districts to show for it.
Bravo, Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe. Bravissimo, in fact. The entire House GOP stood united not once, but twice, in opposition to this unread, unstimulative, wasteful excuse for a “stimulus” package. They did it despite potential political fallout in their own districts, even though they — unlike their Senate counterparts — have to run for reelection every two years (thereby giving them far less time to paper over irresponsible votes and actions).
The Senate GOP did the same — twice — with three notable exceptions: Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe. The three Republican senators, the former from Pennsylvania and the latter two from Maine, provided the votes necessary to get the initial pork-filled debt/spending bill out of the Senate and into conference, and then, when the Senate Democrats could only muster 57 votes in favor of the final version of this monstrosity (a feat which required Obama to send a private jet to Ohio to fetch Sherrod Brown (D) from his mother’s funeral to cast a late-night ballot in favor), Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe chipped in the final three votes necessary to pass a borrow-and-spend bill the size of the 15th largest economy on the planet.
The Democrats wrote this bill, and they unanimously passed it in the Senate (in the House it faced featured bipartisan opposition). Rather than allowing those responsible for its contents to own the results, though, Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe were faced with the irrepressible need to chip in to the effort, casting the necessary votes to pass a bill they have not read and which will accomplish none of its stated aims.
Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe. Three Republicans whose desire to put their constituents and countrymen further into debt for no apparent reason clearly supersedes their duty to even read that legislation they are casting the deciding votes on.
Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe. Three Benedict Arnolds of the modern Republican party whom we can do without, thank you very much.

Well,
sdan Saturday, February 14th at 10:13AM EST (link)What we could pray for is that Obama throws the whole democrat party under the bus and vetos it saying that he made promises to the American people that this process would be both transparent and bipartisian so he can not support this bill because the Majority party didn’t live up to this standard.
No I haven’t been smoking anything funny nor am I on any really heavy prescription drugs. Just wishing for the moon I guess.
B ... b ... but ... Jeff! We NEED "moderates"!
Martin Knight Saturday, February 14th at 10:18AM EST (link)Stop being mean to them!
It’s not easy being spineless!
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it.
- Margaret Thatcher
NOTE: “consensus” = “Bipartisanship™”/”Centrism™”
We *do* need moderates
Neil Stevens Saturday, February 14th at 10:19AM EST (link)Just to pile on, of course we need moderates.
But these are not moderates. These are people far, far, far to the left of the Republican mainstream.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Exactly. Giuliani is a moderate - these are cowards and imbeciles.
Martin Knight Saturday, February 14th at 10:31AM EST (link)The sooner they’re gone, the better.
I’m beginning to think the electorate did us a favor by weeding out our entire “moderate” New England contingent over the past two cycles. The GOP needs to start afresh in the entire North East, and with them on the scene, nothing will be achieved except the further entrenching of the Democrats’ advantage.
And oh yeah … the RMSP Fifth Column needs to be forced to close its doors.
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it.
- Margaret Thatcher
NOTE: “consensus” = “Bipartisanship™”/”Centrism™”
I'm not sure your example is right... but there have to be *some* out there (nt)
Neil Stevens Saturday, February 14th at 10:33AM EST (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Martin's point is well taken
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 11:22AM EST (link)So called “moderates” have bashed SoCons for quite a long time now, blaming us for electoral losses, bad press, and uncomfortable moments at cocktail parties. When the rubber hit the road last night, the one thing we all thought we could agree on as Republicans turned out to be yet one more thing to be compromised by these people. As I have said before, not only did they support the bill but they supported the back-door, K Street, rush to vote method in which it got passed, which is further proof to me of their position.
I am grateful for this vote. Now, once and for all, everyone has taken a side. The press has taken sides, Hollywood has taken sides, and now Collins, Specter and Snowe have taken sides. They are simply not Republicans, because they do not share one bit of common ground with us. Not one bit.
What do these three have in common?
jonreagan Saturday, February 14th at 10:31AM EST (link)All the characteristics of a dog except loyalty.
Apologies to my canine friends…..
Let's stick to substance (nt)
Neil Stevens Saturday, February 14th at 10:33AM EST (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Let it be written on their headstones
1SGinTN Saturday, February 14th at 10:36AM EST (link)that they voted for this bill. I would hope that primary challengers are being groomed for the next election as we speak.
All the Blue Dogs who voted for it should be held accountable as well; after all, their own website touts fiscal responsibility. It’s the equivalence of promoting abstinence while giving away condoms.
Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil
Not really.
itrytobenice Saturday, February 14th at 2:43PM EST (link)More like promoting abstinence while working as a hooker. But you were close.
The problem with America is stupidity. I’m not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don’t we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Jeff, when Mitch McConnell provides absolutely
mbecker908 Saturday, February 14th at 10:36AM EST (link)no leadership as Senate Minority Leader and applies exactly no discipline to these three, please add his name to the list.
If McConnell let these three get away with this vote he’s WORSE than they are.
This is a little discussed but key point
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 11:26AM EST (link)If there is no discipline, then McConnell was complicit. Period.
We need to light his phone and e-mail up - I cannot imagine a worse signal to send to fired up Republicans than to let these three off the hook.
Leaders
NightTwister Saturday, February 14th at 11:46AM EST (link)Get Connected in Colorado.
I really miss preview.
NightTwister Saturday, February 14th at 11:47AM EST (link)Get Connected in Colorado.
Specter must go
EagleWatcher Saturday, February 14th at 10:49AM EST (link)He gave political cover for the other 2. He has voted with us on some votes, but on the big ones he has failed us badly.
Adopt a Congressman
Soldiers’ Angels SarahPAC
Top Conservatives on Twitter
Spectre (yes misspelled on purposed) has been screwing conservatives
olsmithie Sunday, February 15th at 2:29PM EST (link)for decades.
He deserves no quarter. Yet folks like E-pres Bush and NRSC keep aiding his re-election.
The NRSC will never see a dime of mine until they purge the party of weak sisters like Snow, Collins and Specter.
I will continue to send it to individual CONSERVATIVE candidates.
The only thing that seems to get the leadership’s attention is $MONEY$. Hit them where it hurts, while supporting the true conservative candidates.
Regrds
Not one more dime to any GOP apparatus
Marcus_Traianus Saturday, February 14th at 10:54AM EST (link)until they pledge to not provide support to the Fulsome Three. Not the GOP, NRSC, nobody.
Until the people and businesses of these states reject these three, I reject anything they produce or provide. I will vacation elsewhere and buy other products.
I am done with betrayal.
“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson
Contributor to The Minority Report
Not the Collins and Snowe we knew
Dan Spencer Saturday, February 14th at 10:55AM EST (link)I remember when they were deficit hawks and helped defeat some of the tax cuts proposed by President George W. Bush.
California Yankee
Spencer wins the thread (nt)
Neil Stevens Saturday, February 14th at 11:50AM EST (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
At LEAST they could've enforced 48 hours
Erick Brockway Saturday, February 14th at 11:23AM EST (link)They could’ve taken a stand on SOME principle. ANY principle but Tax and Spend.
“My vote will be ‘No’ until we follow our own rules, and agree to post online in searchable form for 48 hours.”
What are they afraid of? Truth? Light? The horror!
Note to lefties;
“Don’t be afraid to see what you see.”
Ronald Reagan
Join the RedState Strike Force
Chip in to get rid of “Babs” (Yes ma’am) Boxer.
Yes, yes and yes
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 11:27AM EST (link)I agree totally - they supported the bill, AND the tactics.
They cannot be redeemed.
EXACTLY!!
bk Saturday, February 14th at 11:29AM EST (link)At a minimum they should have forced this pile of crap to fester out in the sunshine for the extended weekend before voting for cloture.
I had actually suggested that back on the 10th.
barry915barry Saturday, February 14th at 6:50PM EST (link)http://www.redstate.com/smagar/2009/02/10/the-clock-is-ticking-on-porkulus-what-can-we-and-the-gop-congress-do-open-thread/#comment-229. Man, how DO you make a hyper link. bs??? Help!
McConnell should be replaced by a fighting Conservative,
papalee Saturday, February 14th at 11:33AM EST (link)but what needs to happen to the other three should never be discussed inpublic. As for Maine. When we get back in power we should toss it out of the union and declare war against it. After all, the votes of its two senators are nothing less than an act of war against the rest of us, indeed against all the citizens of the United States, even those much too dumb to know it.
We don't encourage crazy talk here. [nt]
Martin Knight Saturday, February 14th at 7:00PM EST (link)To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it.
- Margaret Thatcher
NOTE: “consensus” = “Bipartisanship™”/”Centrism™”
So Just What Do You Think Maine Would Do
papalee Saturday, February 14th at 9:58PM EST (link)if they really got tossed? Are they actually prepared to stand on their own? To go it alone? I think not!
You don’t actually have to do anything. After all, the first states that talked of secession were all from New England. They might like it. The fun would begin when they started to beg to be taken back in. - especially when the Cuban fleet arrived off the coast.
This is history!
davo119 Saturday, February 14th at 11:34AM EST (link)I sincerely hope Specter, Collins and Snow enjoy their place in it. They deserve everything they get from future generations from whom they have taken so much.
Never give in! Never! Never! Never!
Who Knew the Large Hadron Collider
kowalski Saturday, February 14th at 11:36AM EST (link)Who knew? that prior to being shut down for repairs, the Large Hadron Collider would create its first black hole in the vicinity of the Capitol Rotunda, and that it would create a spacetime singularity that starts by destroying the wealth of the United States?
Boehner didn’t throw that bill on the floor: it was sucked.
Defend Liberty — Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
BTW this is a boon for particle physics
kowalski Saturday, February 14th at 11:39AM EST (link)The remaining unnamed particles in the Universe now have a very good chance of being named
Republicons: The Snoweon, the Collins-Collins antiparticle pair, and the Specter Boson.
Defend Liberty — Join the NRA | Live in Massachusetts? Join GOAL.
Moderate Indicator: Rasmussen
redneck_hippie Saturday, February 14th at 11:54AM EST (link)Excellently written and every word true. I’ll try to inject a bit of pollyanna into the conversation (because I am DONE with the Three).
Rasmussenreports.com Republicans’ approval for The Novelty President:
“Additionally, the number who Strongly Disapprove of the President’s performance reached a new high today. Forty-eight percent (48%) of Republican voters nationwide now voice such a negative opinion, up from 29% in the first polling after inauguration day.”
Where have all the moderates gone, for wouldn’t the moderates be the ones who initially wanted to give Obama “time” to succeed?
I gave him the “time” to succeed that he gave the American people to see what is in his porkulus. Maybe even more time.
Time’s been up for quite a while for both Obama and for Olympia, Arlen and Snowe (sorry, Mr. Holler).
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
That's stunning.
itrytobenice Saturday, February 14th at 2:54PM EST (link)How is it possible that 52% of Republicans *don’t* Strongly Disapprove of BO?!?!?! What other emotion could a Republican possibly have?
If I were to be cited for contempt for Congress (and the President) and it was a punishable offense, I’d have to be executed just for sheer volume.
The problem with America is stupidity. I’m not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don’t we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
I support the Stimulus Bill - with one change
streetwise Saturday, February 14th at 12:01PM EST (link)Keep the $787 Billion but scrap all the spending.
Then cut a check for each person in the USA
That roughly comes out to $2623 a person, $10,493 for a family of four.
Now THAT would be change you could believe in.
Also an enormous socialist wealth transfer
jackbenimble Saturday, February 14th at 12:16PM EST (link)It would also be an enormous socialist wealth transfer. No thanks!
How about letting the people who earned the money keep it.
“I repudiate the idea of voting for a Democrat
A $787 Billion Tax Cut
1SGinTN Saturday, February 14th at 12:28PM EST (link)Would have been a true stimulus. Welcome to bizzaro world, this is it, now.
Tu Ne Cede Malis
-Virgil
Tack on
marfan Saturday, February 14th at 12:04PM EST (link)to the cost of the bill, a taxpayer funded private airplane ride for Sen. Brown of Ohio. Hmmm…wonder if the President will send me a plane to visit my ailing friend in Washington.
marfan
Fill their voicemail boxes again
HerbC Saturday, February 14th at 12:32PM EST (link)McConnell’s voicemail doesn’t give the option to leave a message. However I called Sen. Burr’s office, and left him a message. I encouraged him to push McConnell to
do something about those three miscreants.
Keep in mind, they’re not back to the office until Tuesday
due to President’s day on Monday.
and the media reports this how?
Jack Saturday, February 14th at 12:34PM EST (link)Every news story I have heard or seen say the Senate in bipartisan fashion passed the stimulus bill. However, in the House every Republican voted against it. Not ONE WORD about the 8 dims that voted against it.
Jack
“If at age 20 you are conservative you have no heart. It at age 30 you are liberal you have no brains.” Sir Winston Churchill
Disciplinary action, or lip-service...
rbdwiggins Saturday, February 14th at 12:37PM EST (link)Sen. McConnell…
All committee assignments for Senators Collins, Snowe and Specter should be terminated immediately, and appointments to fill those vacancies for the remainder of the 111th Congress should be announced before the Senate reconvenes on Feb. 23rd.
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan
Truly and definately....
USNJIMRET Saturday, February 14th at 12:38PM EST (link)McConnell should kick the Three Traitors out of the Senate Republican Caucus, strip them of ANY Committee Seats, and publicly, VERY PUBLICLY, disown them. (Assuming that he not only CAN do this, but has the stones too.)
It is simply beyond tolerable to accept continued Republican “leaders” who can not, will not and DO not exercise leadership.
In fact, if I were in McConnell’s place, I would resign in disgrace from any and all leadership positions.
I would be embarrassed beyond even my own well known ability to deflect (just ask my wives, current and ex).
But all we have seen, and will continue to see, is more of Beltway Business as Usual.
The only ‘change’ will be the scope, breadth and speed with which ‘business’ gets done.
Wipe the RINOs out...
TxCon Saturday, February 14th at 12:57PM EST (link)all of them.
Wipe out how? (nt)
Neil Stevens Saturday, February 14th at 12:58PM EST (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Well, I prefer
itrytobenice Saturday, February 14th at 2:57PM EST (link)In the primary. If we do it in the general, we could get another Bernie Sanders.
Of course, in the vote, there’s no difference between Bernie and Olympia.
The problem with America is stupidity. I’m not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don’t we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
We Still Need Snowe, Collins and Specter
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, February 14th at 1:05PM EST (link)I know this is an unpopular stance, but it’s the hard truth we need to face. It’s easier to act like a cyber-tough guy and drop bombs. But here are the hard facts.
We were going to get a crap sandwich no matter what. Obama wanted it. The Dem Senate wanted it. The Dem House wanted it. The general population wanted something. Maybe we could have made it smaller or changed some things. But some conservatives are deluding themselves if they ever thought there was a chance no bill or a conservative bill was going to be passed. We are a super minority party. We don’t have the weight to dictate anything. Snowe, Collins and Specter helped this particular bill get passed at this particular time, but nothing was going stop the inevitability of some crap sandwich.
This is one bill. We still cant get to 41 without them and we need every single vote to prevent Check Card, FOCA, restrictions on radio, socialized health care, amnesty … There is no guarantee they will side with us on all the above, but they will on some and we need them especially on Check Card..
Judicial appointments are coming. I’ll take a handful of moderates over a bunch of America hating Marxists on the benches any day. Again, we will need every vote to stop 60 and we will need Specter on the judiciary committee.
Maybe we can primary Specter. But there are ways to do it and treat him like an adult in the meantime. There is nothing we can do about Collins. If we treat them like the Dems treated Lieberman, they will have no reason to listen to our criticism or concerns. If they are completely marginilize them now, we cant go back and ask fo favors later.
We don’t have the numbers to act with suck spolied bravado. We have to be adults about this and protect ourselves for the rest of this Congress.
Not Dead Yet!
Yeah, we can all 'Hope' they 'change' back into Conservative Republicans?
USNJIMRET Saturday, February 14th at 1:36PM EST (link)And then make more excuses not to hold them up to public ridicule for acting like Democrats?
Why should anyone believe that Specter is going to be a Conservative when it comes to potential Federal Court seats, when he willingly sold the WHOLE Country down the deficit river, without batting an eye?
Personally, I’d rather see a united minority Republican core, then an imagined filibuster capable threesome.
You dont Need To Be a Conservative Republican
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, February 14th at 1:54PM EST (link)to vote against radicals on the Supreme Court or the Employee Choice Act. Those are radical positions that will forever change our country long after Obama is gone. The issues are too important to ignore.
Not Dead Yet!
Yes, that is an unpopular stance
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 1:41PM EST (link)And I am damn sick and tired of being held hostage by this attitude. This bill could have been stopped in its tracks by the filibuster. STOPPED COLD.
I cannot count the issues and the times we have compomised because “we needed them.” You know what? WE NEEDED THEM YESTERDAY, and where were they? They were in the same, pompous, self-aggrandizing place moderates always seem to find themselves - on the side of the Democrats.
They cannot be trusted, they have not one time, not ever, compromised what passes for THEIR “principles” up to vote with Republicans, and they should never again be allowed to take advantage of the party. If that is what the voters in bread lines in New England and PA want, they can have a Democrat who at least admits to being one.
Hell no. I would rather go down swinging with all I have in the super minority than have my foxhole befouled by these gutless traitors to my country.
A Traitor Is An Enabler of Check Card
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, February 14th at 1:57PM EST (link)… if sulking Republicans allow check card to pass, they are the ones that should look in the mirror. Once the unions ar entrenched in the South and West, all will be lost for generations. We need at least 41 and we should be fighitng, planning and thinking of ways to get there. Not acting like cry-babies because of one vote from a Republican in a blue-state
Not Dead Yet!
Check card is armageddon.
redneck_hippie Saturday, February 14th at 2:00PM EST (link)Where do Olympia, Arlen and Snowe stand on it?
This is important and Mitch McConnell better be on top of it.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
What makes you so certain they will stand against Card check??
USNJIMRET Saturday, February 14th at 2:06PM EST (link)And did you previously think that any one of them would have stood against the “Stimulus” bill? (Which also, coincidentally, will affect every American for years and years to come.)
How many times are YOU willing to compromise and ‘hope’ for a better vote next time?
BTW, I don’t know personally, maybe you do.
Was Specter against the confirmation of Ginsberg to SCOTUS?
If he did not vote against her, assuming he was in the Senate then, I would submit your ‘hope’ he’ll stand against potential far left nominations now is suspect. To put it mildly.
he voted "yea"
barry915barry Saturday, February 14th at 6:56PM EST (link)link is here:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00232
Are you kidding me?
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 2:09PM EST (link)Sulking Republicans? Yeah, forget about abortion, we need them on spending bills. Ok, Ok, forget about spending bills, we need them on card check. Ok, Ok, Ok, forget about card check, we need them on the “Fairness Doctrine”….
Maybe the bonehead businesspeople like turkey-vulture Warren Buffet that supported these prosperity hating morons are getting what they deserve, or maybe they need to get their ass in gear and take a little action on this issue.
You bet all will be lost for generations, because all is ALREADY lost for generations. Card check is just the final nail in the coffin, and we richliy deserve what is being implanted in our rectums.
Okay, Collins Is Going To Be Senator For 6 Years
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, February 14th at 2:18PM EST (link)What do you propose. A bunch of people, not from Maine, call her names and send her vulgar emails. AWESOME winning strategy.
The fact is that she does vote Repubilcan sometimes. Whining and Lying doesnt change that. She is not a loyal conservative, she’s middle of the road. We all know that.
But I am building for the future. Not being a self-indulgent cry baby. I liove in Boston. You do not want to be a super-minority.
If there were an election in six months, maybe I’d change my mind. I supported all the criticism before the vote. Now its done and alienation is not going to get us anything.
People wanted some “action” on the economy. The Dems exploited that. People generally dont like radial judges and union thugs. That the difference.
You cant fire and ostracize somebody and then give them a call when you need help on a big work order. You have to keep them in your camp for now, make them feel guilty for their vote and make it so the “owe you one”
Its all about WINNING. Not sulking, pouting, be cool cyber- tough guys.
Not Dead Yet!
OK, you've convinced me
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 2:23PM EST (link)Especially the “cool cyber-tough guys” part
You don’t know a damn thing about me, and you need to remember that. Your method of dealing with these three people brought us a spending bill that is going to bankrupt the country, so congratulations on not sulking and playing ball.
Next time my kid bites the recess lady on the ass, I won’t do anything about it, because I may need him to be good at a later date.
Swamp, your remark that Collins does vote R SOMETIMES
janis Saturday, February 14th at 3:25PM EST (link)leaves a lot to be desired. If she runs as a Republican, which she does, and is voted in as a Republican, which she was, then why in the name of everything sensible are we supposed to appreciate that she “votes Republican SOMETIMES”? Lieberman votes Republican sometimes, but that doesn’t make him one.
Bottom line here, if she only votes Republican sporadically, then why on earth do we need her? That’s like saying that you need a gun that only shoots SOMETIMES. Those other times that it doesn’t will get you killed.
Easy
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, February 14th at 3:49PM EST (link)I’ll take someone who only votes Republican sporadically over someone who never votes Republican like John Kerry or Ted Kennedy, Its not Snowe or Coburn. Its Snowe or Howard Dean. That’s the alternative in Maine.
But that’s not the point. The point is the useless mental masturbation of trying to ostricize them now. Collins isnt going to run again until 2014 and there are people more concerned with getting her primaried than winning the next battle with Obama.
I’m trying to get from 2008 to 2010 with the least amount of damage. And then from 2010 to 2012, when 24 Dem Senators are up and only 9 Rep Senators are up..
I’m about as far right as it gets. But I can seperate principles from practical politics. Dont throw aout the baby in the bath water.
How you someone hate this bill so much and then not care about the dozen or so socialist bills the Dems will push before 2010. We have 41 freaking Senate vote. That’s it. Before the vote, fine. If there is an election, fine. But now is not the time. Its useless. I care to much to be a spoiled, impractical idealist.
Not Dead Yet!
They are a lockerroom cancer
6eorge Jetson Saturday, February 14th at 4:07PM EST (link)Fortunately, we’ve got 215 of our 218 congressmen on board, at least when it comes to the core, line-in-the-sand issues.
Laren, Cully, and Snowe don’t speak for us, and don’t represent us.
You’re right, the cost/benefit weighted impact of flipping the
MaineLefte Senator from a liberal to a conservative is rather low. Spectre’s in play, however.Baloney
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 4:16PM EST (link)“Its not Snowe or Coburn. Its Snowe or Howard Dean. That’s the alternative in Maine.”
That is just absolute baloney.
Lots of Facts There
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, February 14th at 4:30PM EST (link)Who exactly is going to beat Snowe of Collins. For starters, they are exteremely poplular. 2008 was a dismal years for Republicans in the Senate, but Collins smoked her opponent.
This is your “baloney”:
http://rothenbergpoliticalreport.blogspot.com/2008/12/maine-senate-collins-demonstrated.html
Maine +17 for Obama
Collins +22 over Tom Allen
90% of ME Republicans support Collins
Yet she still pulled 40% of Obama voters.
Please tell me, with 90% of Repubilcans support and the support of Democrats in a Democratic state, how a Red state Republicans is going to beat her ina primary or the general.
The only way they lose is if the Dems rally around some Obama or Kennedy like candidate.
Not Dead Yet!
Some questions
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 5:03PM EST (link)1) Will support of this bill make Snowe and Collins more or less popular among Maine voters? If the answer is “more”, then Maine is lost regardless.
2) Did Ronald Reagan carry Maine, or not? If the answer is “yes”, then it is not conservatism that is the problem in Maine.
Was Tom Allen a conservative? Is that why he was beaten so soundly? Are we in this position because of hardball politics and discipline of Republicans?
I have heard this pragmatic approach for years now, and it has resulted in a Democrat President, a Democrat House, and a Democrat Senate. Yet I still hear the “let’s play ball…it’ll be OK…they’ll come around” mantra. And we get what we got last night, and we always will.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I cannot see how your approach changes anything, and I cannot see how fiscal conservatism is optional for a Republican . I do not care if Snowe and Collins are beaten, so the stats are really beside the point. I DO care if they are coddled over and over and over again, and allowed to have positions of prominance in the party.
If they voted for something THIS socialist, then why on earth would you think they will balk at the next
janis Saturday, February 14th at 4:23PM EST (link)POS bill that shows up on the floor? And, more to the point, if the Dems have such rigid control of their own members that those same members dare not vote against their own party, then why in God’s name don’t we? My guess would be that those Dems know that there will be a price to pay if they don’t march in lockstep with the leadership. So how come our members behave as if there’s nothing to fear if they defect from the party line, hmmm?
These senators voted as they did because they know there’s no price to pay with our own leadership. That has to change. And, no, I’m not grateful for the few crumbs these three manage to throw us SOMETIMES.
And one other thing
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 2:15PM EST (link)How are Republicans allowing check card to pass? The only possibility that it has is if the Jackass Three swing to the Dems, and you are blaming it on Republicans? How about blaming it on the moderates that we have coddled all these years? If we had handled Specter when we had the chance we wouldn’t be in this situation.
No, no and no. We take our medicine now - right now- and build for a more conservative future with the ample weapons at our disposal. Had we done this years ago we would not be having this conversation, but we let John McCain maverick his way into the most pitiful Presidential campaign in modern history, and we are letting buffoons hold us hostage again.
Well said, Swamp Yankee. If the conservatives in their states can put up a winning candidate, fine.
streetwise Saturday, February 14th at 2:03PM EST (link)Until then, we work with what we have.
And hope for change!
Specter can be credibly primaried
civil_truth Saturday, February 14th at 2:16PM EST (link)Indeed, it was only the intervention of the RNSC that kept him last time aroundfrom losing to Toomey, who is a strong conservative. That makes Specter’s perfidy doubly contemptible. I’m pretty certain that there are credible conservatives to run against Specter in 2010.
Don’t know if Toomey could have won in the general, and sure don’t know what will be the mood of the electorate in 2010.
As for Snowe and Collins, I’m not the most familiar with Maine politics, but the state does have a tradition of women Senators going back to Margaret Chase Smith. I suspect it’s going to be well night impossible to get a conservative to win a senate race there, given how blue Maine has become.
And Rightly So!
And herein creeps the big lie
Jack_Savage Saturday, February 14th at 2:29PM EST (link)I have no illusions about a conservative winning in Maine. I am sure the people of Maine have determined that abortion is great, gay marriage is cool, and bibles suck.
Collins and Snowe are not moderates, and they proved it yesterday, along with Specter. They are being treated as such for no reason. A moderate Republican would have voted “no”, because fiscal responsibility is the litmus test that no one, until now, has objected to.
I don’t need a conservative to win in Maine. I will take a moderate. See?
We cannot support these non-Republicans
red4ever Saturday, February 14th at 2:39PM EST (link)I am a moderate Republican. I probably would have supported the Cantor Stimulas Bill. There are other issues that I believe compromise is possible. However, I would MUCH rather lose because we can’t get to 41 votes to filbuster with no Republicans supporting a bill that continue to hold our values and ideals hostage to these 3 Dems in all but name. They do NOT support the goals of the Republican party. They cannot be counted to hold the line.
Sure, the non-Stimulus bill was going through anyway. But, it should have gone through with 0 Republican votes in both houses. There is NO political gain to the Party by giving cover to the socialist agenda of President Obama. Let them do what they will, at least the Grand Old Party will be completely on record as opposing such measures.
Better to die like a lion than live like a mouse. Although living like a lion is best.
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante
I wasn't making an argument to support Snowe and Collins
civil_truth Saturday, February 14th at 2:57PM EST (link)More like saying that at present these two hitherto have done a good job of reflecting the convictions of their constituency. The reality is they’re going to be rather untouchable unless thengs go really south.
And in that case, we in a whole new ballgame, and who knows whether Maine would elect a conservative or swing evern more to the left - though what happens in Maine will probably reflect what’s going on in the rest of New England.
And Rightly So!
It would not have passed without Specter Snowe and Collins
Scope Saturday, February 14th at 4:51PM EST (link)The bill passed with 60 yeas. 57 of them were Dems. Even if they brought Kennedy in on a stretcher, they would still have had 58 votes. Without Specter, Snowe and Collins IT WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED Swamp Yankee from Boston. Without those votes, and the promises of those votes the Libs would have had to at least go back and do alot more adjusting to the disaster. It still would not have ever been as a Conservative or fiscally sound Senator would have liked, but there could have been room for much much more negotiating, and at least some of the laughable poke projects would have been eliminated or the amount cut considerably. If McConnell had any guts or brains he could have at least gotten them to not show their hands before the vote.
"no matter what"? No. They needed three Republican votes
JSobieski Saturday, February 14th at 10:48PM EST (link)If they had negotiated better, say reduced the size of the package to $400B I would agree with you.
The bill is no smaller than when it was first drawn up. They had Obama by the balls, and capitulated for less than what Judas got.
They could have negotiated a hell of deal. Instead, they can hardly point to a single improvement.
That kind of moderation we can do without. If they were democrats or independents, how would the bill be worse?
Democrats in the house put up a tougher fight than the three amigos in the Senate.
P.S. If the ladies from Maine become Democrats or Independent Democrats, then at least there is a chance of moving Maine to the right.
GOP Trust to Target the 3 Stooges (TomCollins, SnowJob, & Spectacle) ....
JLenardDetroit Saturday, February 14th at 2:58PM EST (link)Scott Wheeler is laying the groundwork already… visit NationalRepublicanTrust for more info or to DONATE!!!
You may or may not recall that these folks brought us some of the 2008 Election cycle campaign Ads that the RNC and/or McCain campaign refused to tackle….
(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
“The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)
I Started A Pool At Work
jkumatsu Saturday, February 14th at 4:30PM EST (link)Which one of Specter, Snowe, and Collins is going to pull a Chaffee and become an independent? I got Specter
OTOH is it possible one of them will resign from the GOP and become a Dem
Regardless, we are better off without them.
Specter will stay Republican so long as McConnell plays hands-off
civil_truth Saturday, February 14th at 5:00PM EST (link)He’s a ranking Republican with a lot of seniority - which buys him votes in PA and solicitations from Democratic johns. Why would he voluntarily give all that up - and probably his reelection chances too - so long as he rule the roost in his prsent spot.
And Snow and Collins have no reason to leave the Republicans either and give up their piece of the pie.
In other words, they aren’t going anywhere unless they get pushed. Which is not t to making them most uncomfortable for their support of the stimulus bill.
And Rightly So!
There's a lesson here somewhere
Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Saturday, February 14th at 5:20PM EST (link)I’ve been watching the folks at the Daily Kos complete melt down as they realize that the unsung hero in the Senate was none other than Joe Lieberman. Lieberman didn’t weigh in on this bill early on but he seems to have worked quite hard and effectively at getting the so-called moderates to work together and pass the bill.
Why do I mention this? Because I’m seeing you folks go after Collins, Snowe, and Specter with about as much anger and energy as I saw them use on Lieberman. Why does that matter? Then President-Elect Obama enraged the netroots when he made it clear he wanted Joe Lieberman to remain in the caucus. He just got his payback.
An unreliable vote can still be very useful, and only a fool turns down an opportunity to further their agenda solely based on past transgressions. Either you want to move the ball forward or you don’t.
Going after these three in their respective primaries makes sense, based on what matters to you folks. Making them feel completely and utterly unwelcome prior to those primaries will probably only push them further away while they are still sitting Senators. I’m not sure that’s the most pragmatic approach you could take.
If Obama had listened to people like myself, well, Joe Lieberman would probably not have greased the treads here and gotten this bill passed. Sure, you’d be much happier were that the case, but if that’s all you take away from this post then you’re simply missing the lesson.
I’m a lying troll.
Apples and a$$holes Han.
mbecker908 Saturday, February 14th at 5:40PM EST (link)Lieberman is the apple.
Joe Lieberman is and always has been a reliable liberal vote on every domestic issue. Absolutely every issue. The only issue he’s ever parted company with the current Marxist leadership of the Congress - and Obama - on is Iraq and the War on Terror.
Specter and ME girls, OTOH, can’t be counted on for anything. There is pretty much no issue where they might not jump ship.
And, BTW, that’s why conservatives would have stayed home in mass had McCain picked his “good friend” as VP candidate. Pretty much no “friend” of McCain could be called a friend of ours.
That's a very good observation, Han
civil_truth Saturday, February 14th at 5:46PM EST (link)You also, perhaps unwittingly, point out some key differences in character among the various players.
Barring further information, I don’t have a lot of anger towards Snowe and Collins, because they seem to be behaving in accord with what their constituents want, unless I’m misinformed about Maine politics. We need to respect that they are in line with their voters and try to work with them, realizing that they are unreliable votes. We’ve got to deal with the Senators we’ve got, not the senators we want, so long as they’re in office - so long as they do have some concordence with core Republican principles.
But come reelection time, they get primaried if there is a credible opponent (which would surprise me in Blue New England, but perhaps there is).
———————————
You’ve documented what most of us understand about Lieberman: he is an honorable man who sticks to his convictions. He’s strong on defense and a liberal on domestic policies - the kind of Northeast Democrat that prevailed in the party when I was growing up.And he’s rather consistent with that.
What you’re adding here is that Lieberman also honored his deal with Obama: that he would support him in the clutch in return for keeping his posts in the Senate.
———————————-
Specter, though, is not an honorable man* - and that poses a different situation. As I recall, the NRSC broke its longstanding policy and intervened in the Pennsylvania primary to promote Specter against a strong challenge from conservative Pat Toomey. But Specter has not been keeping his half of the deal to support the Republican caucus when the rubber hits the road.
The classic definition of an honest politician is a person who once he’s bought, stays bought. By that definition, Specter is a dishonest politician. And for that he needs to be called to account. If he’s not going to keep his deal, then he needs to be made an example of. Especially since we have credible opponents who can oppose him in the primary.
Thanks for sharpening my focus here. Specter win the Benedict Arnold award here - or perhaps even the Thirty Pieces of Silver award.
—————————————–
*Unless, of course, the Senate Republicans are putting on a show for us and Specter is the designated sacrificial lamb to cover for other wimps. I’d rather not speculate on that unless convincing evidence for that turns up, cause that would be a game changer.
And Rightly So!
Hogwash. We owe the hooker twins from ME exactly nothing. nt
mbecker908 Saturday, February 14th at 5:50PM EST (link)Where did I say we "owe" them anything
civil_truth Saturday, February 14th at 6:10PM EST (link)..beyond recognition that they are elected Senators and that they will serve for 4 and 6 years and that they identify themselves as Republicans.
The real problem is that we have only a total of 41 Republicans in the Senate (42 if Coleman somehow prevails, though he’s another RMSP member, so he’s another unreliable) - and the reason we’re so close to extinction in the Senate is that we could not hold seats in 2006 and 2008 - because too many of our so-called Republican senators abandoned conservate governance when they had more power.
Which gets back to what Art has been arguing, with which I agree, which is that we’re not going to take back our country without concentrating on holding ane building at the state level a conservative movement. We’ve got 50 states with different mixes of population; we need to find and recruit conservate who show that they can make conservatism work at the state level - and then get them into federal office.
Which is another way of ultimately saying that ultimately we get the Congress we deserve.
And Rightly So!
And what we specifically don't owe them
mbecker908 Saturday, February 14th at 6:45PM EST (link)is their committee assignments.
There are some issues that we should be drawing a line in the sand with a backhoe over. This bill was one of them. Specter and girls should serve on exactly no committees of the Senate. Period.
Encouraging words from the Whitehouse...
$peciallist Saturday, February 14th at 6:54PM EST (link)Let's not pull another Goode move
civil_truth Saturday, February 14th at 11:59PM EST (link)Philadelphia still hasn’t fully recovered from the last one.
Discipline and consequences, yes. We won’t be able to hold the rest of the caucus together if these three escape scot-free.
But overplaying a weak hand can have rather adverse effects.
And Rightly So!
Actually, the MOVE bombing and resulting fire was
mbecker908 Sunday, February 15th at 12:07PM EST (link)the best thing Wilson B Goode did as mayor of Philly. An old, crappy, crime infested area got an urban renewal project and resulted in much better housing and a much nicer area. It’s back to being a crime infested, crappy area, but that’s Philly (or any major US city run by Democrats) for you.
And frankly, given the opportunity for a fire when Congress is in session, I’d support Wilson B Goode for Chief of the Capitol Police in a heartbeat.
And, if the ME girls switch parties I don’t give a damn. Even though I’m an ardent supporter of ProLife legislation I’ll give them a pass on that. They don’t get a pass on this. Bottom line, if they - and Arlen - are willing to support this piece of crap there is no piece of legislation that the Obamanator will offer that they won’t be a reliable vote on, at least as reliable as Joe Lieberman, and I wouldn’t want him as a Republican either.
I think we're primarily arguing over tactics
civil_truth Sunday, February 15th at 12:32PM EST (link)I don’t believe in Pyrrhic victories, which is what would happen with the Maine sisters.
Besides the quesiton of Maine voters, there’s also the gender issue. To “gang up” on two women, there’s no way to get past that perception. We’ll get flayed alive. But I’m willing to agree to disagree about then.
But betrayal needs to have consequences. So let loose on Specter..
Specter - he’s vermin and a guy. Focus the fire on him, make him an example, and when the Sisters and the others see that someone received consequences, perhaps they’ll give pause next time.
And if not, then someone else will need to be made an example of.
But if nobody gets the stick treatment, then party discipline will be a joke from here on out.
Now perhaps that’s the way that too many in the Republican caucus want it. If so, then we’ve got a cancer rather than a few bad apples - and the treatment is different too.
And Rightly So!
I hear Specter is sold out to organized labor - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, February 14th at 6:28PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Funny I mentioned Joementum on the secret RS mailing list just yesterday I think (nt)
Neil Stevens Saturday, February 14th at 6:03PM EST (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
stand and fight and lose
indym Saturday, February 14th at 5:33PM EST (link)is what the republicans in congress will have happen for the next few years. We have only 41 votes in the senate and 19 senate seats to defend in 2010. All the democrats need to do is pick up one seat and goodbye republican party. The only reason we are in the debate now is Obama needs some republican support. If the republicans had filibustered the bill, then republicans would be blamed for the economy as it faltered. By letting the bill go the floor and the dems passing it, the bill falls on them.
Secondly, Sen Menendez of New Jersey has targeted nine GOP seats for 2010. In fact, he even named the seats. No one challenged him. Followiing his lead activists in our party have targeted three GOP seats. (Specter, Snowe and Collins). You get where I am going with this. The stategy of the Republican party should be to defeat democrats not other republicans.
Thirdly, I can almost hear the next idea. Email or phone the republican governors and tell them not to take stimulus money. Any governor that does not take stimulus money I was going to say would lose or their party would lose the next election. However I don’t think voters will wait that long.
We have got to be smart, patient and calm. I won’t say more than this, but some emails sent to Sen Collins and Sen Snowe have been downright disgusting.
Don't say lose. Say "Never Concede!"
6eorge Jetson Saturday, February 14th at 6:14PM EST (link)Only by standing on principle can we move the outcome to the right. Your correct, Republicans are playing an “away game” in 2010, as seen in the linked United States Senate 2010 election predictions. These predictions list 8 Republican seats strongly in play versus only 2 Democratic seats. However, IMO, the predictions are not reflective of the growing sense of disgust w/ the Democratic mafia.
The United States Senate elections, 2012, conversely, will be a Republican “home game”, and we should clean up then if we govern by principle.
And no, it makes no sense for individual governors to refuse the stimulus money. It’s like going to a dinner of 50 where it has been predetermined that the check will be split equally. Your friends are all ordering lobster, and you’re on the hook for an equal share of their indulgence. Your own personal savings for ordering the hamburger would be trivial, while your decline in consumption, huge.
The best course of action is to opt out of the agreement. Barring that, you might as well order the lobster.
agreed - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, February 14th at 6:35PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Sorry, but disagree on 2-4.
barry915barry Saturday, February 14th at 7:13PM EST (link)Florida because of Crist: http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/florida-senate-poll-shows-crist-annihilating-field-2009-02-11.html
He is up big right now. And Kentucky. Just a gut feeling. It is still a solidly red state. McCain won by like 17%. Even if it is Bunning. I see this a lot like Wicker in MS.
Kansas is solid red, and NOT even THINKING of turning purple IMHO.
If anything, Louisiana is becoming more red re: Jindahl.
They are traitors and should be tried and shot
Tbone Saturday, February 14th at 9:45PM EST (link)as should every other person who voted for this bill along with their staffs.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
That's too quick.
Xasteius Sunday, February 15th at 12:05AM EST (link)I’m thinking a straitjacket, a padded room, nutritionally-balanced grey goop for food, and bagpipe music 24-7.
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
This is even better than bag pipes I believe.
barry915barry Sunday, February 15th at 12:31AM EST (link)http://img.youtube.com/vi/ocOYBrQfJb4/default.jpg
Now, will someone teach me how to embed the stinkin’ vid please!!
lets try this again.
barry915barry Sunday, February 15th at 12:33AM EST (link)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MXgc8wzfC4&feature=related
Just copy and paste the "Embed" (html) code into your post
6eorge Jetson Sunday, February 15th at 12:54AM EST (link)When using YouTube, once you’re navigated to your desired video page, just look for the Embed html code box in the upper right hand corner.
It’s that simple.
Thanks. nt
barry915barry Sunday, February 15th at 1:02AM EST (link)Bagpipes: the second worst musical torture...
civil_truth Sunday, February 15th at 12:20AM EST (link)The first being trapped in a belfry during an all-night, nine-hour bell ringing
And Rightly So!
Meant as reply to zsmvf6
civil_truth Sunday, February 15th at 12:23AM EST (link)Specifically this comment
And Rightly So!
Specter was the only R who supported Card Check in the last Congress
Scope Sunday, February 15th at 9:55AM EST (link)Here is a link to the positions Specter has taken in the past-
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Arlen_Specter
From reading Specter’s past positions, it’s amazing that anyone would have expected Specter to not support the Stimulus. I believe someone above said that we need Specter (and Collins and Snowe) because they do vote with the Republicans sometimes.
Will those that believe that please provide information on the votes from Specter that were with the Republicans. I am beginning to think that Specter is more of a “maverick” that even McCain. The only difference is that Specter never ran for the Presidency, and therefore his record was never so widely investigated and reported on. Even now, most don’t know he supports Card Check.
that clinches what I heard recently that Specter is in Union Labor's pocket-nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Sunday, February 15th at 10:10AM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Actually Specter ran for President in '88.
mbecker908 Sunday, February 15th at 12:52PM EST (link)And his record got him tossed out of the field faster than you can say “Mike Dukakis”.
Thanks for the info mbecker908
Scope Sunday, February 15th at 2:15PM EST (link)I didn’t know that. Has he ever done anything important to help the Republicans, or has he been cross dressing for more than 21 years?
"Cross dressing", heh.
mbecker908 Sunday, February 15th at 3:25PM EST (link)I can pretty much guarantee you’ll see that line again.
Let’s see. He did a very good job of defending Clarence Thomas and ripping Anita Hill several new orifices when she lied during Thomas’ hearing. Other than that, I can’t recall anything. I’m not so sure I’d even classify him as a cross dresser.
On the other side of the coin, he worked diligently with Senator Leahy to make sure a significant number of GWB’s excellent nominees never saw the light of day.
Thanks for the info mbecker908
Scope Sunday, February 15th at 2:15PM EST (link)I didn’t know that. Has he ever done anything important to help the Republicans, or has he been cross dressing for more than 21 years?
BackBone
ExposeDemLiars Sunday, February 15th at 4:30PM EST (link)As a whole the Republicans demonstrated a rare but welcome dedication to their pirinciples last week. Unfortunately, there were three jelly spined whiners that were afraid of thaking a stand for what was right.
I hope the Republican party is strong enough to remove them from any committees they are on.