Toby Harden, in his “give her a talk show” article hits what I think is an essential truth and problem about a possible Palin candidacy:
I believe this is an obstacle she may not be able to overcome by acting as a populist, virtual “backbencher”, as she is currently operating. I say this as a fan – I would vote for her without reservation and will defend her to the ends of the earth against the BS she gets every day.
I think she will be the right person at the wrong time.
A common observation of recent Presidential elections is that, in at least one crucial personality trait or important aspect, The People elect the polar opposite of the current President.
Ford – Carter: Insider – Outsider
Carter – Reagan: Sour defeatism – Sunny optimism.
Reagan – Bush(1): Idealist – Pragmatist.
Bush(1) – Clinton: Staid – Rambunctious.
Clinton – Bush(2): Undisciplined – Disciplined.
Bush(2) – Obama: Stubborn loyalty – “Under the bus”
I’m afraid that the current amateur hour is going to be that crucial aspect. The country won’t want to give a go to another politician with a thin resume (including sadly, her resignation of the Governorship) like the last, regardless of her policy positions and how good we think she would be.
Crossposted at Effingconservatives.
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Duck and cover, Jeff. Thou shalt say no bad things about SWWOG. nt
Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 1:22PM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
I'm not saying BAD things
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 1:30PM EST (link)I’m just calling it like I see it.
There’s a whole lot of things the electorate might consider for their polar opposite:
Incompetence – Competence: advantage Romney (not a fan, he’s the GOP Al Gore IMO)
Rock Star – Boring: Advantage Pawlenty (not excited – he’s BORING)
USA bad – USA #1 – Advantage Sarah! (but I’m not holding my breath – ANYONE can contrast with that)
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
But you aren't saying GOOD things either.
NightTwister (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 1:35PM EST (link)And that’s all some of these people will accept. Anything else to them is an attack. Now, that’s not to say she hasn’t been unfairly attacked by many (she has), but honest evaluations simply aren’t allowed by either side. That’s why I’ve pretty much stayed out of the entire thing. An objective discussion about Sarah Palin just isn’t possible at this time.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
Can't happen if someone doesn't try
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 2:13PM EST (link)Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
There won't be such a thing as an "objective discussion"
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 2:16PM EST (link)where Palin is concerned for at least eight more years.
NightTwister- I will add, or at this website
Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 8:06PM EST (link)we have some very strong anti-Palin people here. They have made up their own minds because of Liberal media attacks, GOP attacks or, because so may here (including myself) have a tremendous respect for Achance,.He has posted his opinions prolifically against Palin. Art has his personal sights set on Palin because of “things” that have happened to him personally, and for that I depart from his ideas. For those that look at Palin in any other light, here at Redstate, they have valid reasons for their support, or lack of support, other than those that have an agenda in mind. I know I’m going to get attacked for this, but, hey becker have at it telling me that I am the most stupid person to ever have joined Redstate. Even Achance had a diary that somewhat supported Palin in a certain way, because she was listening to him. That must have been a great shock to you becker.
To be honest, I couldn't care less
NightTwister (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 11:31PM EST (link)about Sarah Palin right now. I’m busy worrying about whether the liberals in my local (Fort Collins) City Council are going to put a bunch of people out of work by redistricting trash pickup, how many more businesses they’re going to push to Timnath, Windsor and Wellington, and whether or not the Poudre School Board is going to yet again try to remove school choice and drive out charter schools.
I’m worried about national organizations trying to tell those of us in CD-4 and Colorado who should represent us in the Senate, House, and Governor’s office.
Who may or may not be running for President in two years is something I just really don’t care to worry about.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
Nighttwister...Has the gang of three?
rcov092 (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 1:37AM EST (link)had the wind taken out of their sails with the recession? Ne can only hope that Pat Stryker et al are crying over missing millions, disappeared while they were trying to take control of Coloradoans lives.
“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”
Join the RedState Strike Force
Wah, wah, wah.
Finrod (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:09PM EST (link)Lame, Art. I support Sarah and I have no problems with honest criticism of her like this diary made. She does need to bone up on policy, but she has a couple of years to do that between now and mid-2011.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
This comment crystallizes my misgivings about Palin as a presidential contender.
Third Street (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 6:16AM EST (link)I’ve seen this sentiment frequently admitted by Palin backers and skeptics alike:
Do you realize how that sounds? Why are we even talking about nominating for President of the United States someone who “does need to bone up on policy”? Less than three years from Election Day!
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”
Three words
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 7:55AM EST (link)O BOW MA
I will take Palin over the “status quo” any day!!!
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Do you have anyone better in mind? If not, *STFU*
Finrod (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 11:39PM EST (link)We go into an election with the candidates we have, not the candidates we want. Who do we have that doesn’t need to bone up on policy? Fred Thompson, but he didn’t go anywhere in 2008 and I doubt he’ll run again. Newt Gingrich, but he had as many if not more detractors than Sarah Palin even before his Dede debacle. Got anyone else in mind?
I stand with RS McCain: Any Republican who disparages Palin without suggesting a feasible GOP alternative can therefore be said to be objectively pro-Obama.
So put up or STFU.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Donald Rumsfeld - you need to post under your name
civil truth (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 11:48PM EST (link)…or else I’ll take your first sentence as plagiarism
As for your main point – right now, we don’t need to call out anyone about POTUS 2012: we need to take back Congress in 2010 or we may not have a country we recognize by 2012.
And I’d sure like to see a better field of contenders for President than we had for 2008; the weakness of the field led the internecine battles among conservatives that let McCain slip in. Which means fresh blood will be appreciated.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 12:01AM EST (link)I think Donald Rumsfeld deserves far more flattery than he’s ever gotten, personally. (-:
I don’t think we need to be discussing 2012 until Nov. 3, 2010, but I think people that go around trashing potential candidates, especially the ones people are enthusiastic about, need to realize that they’re helping the Democrats.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
I think he deserves MUCH MORE flattery....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 4:20PM EST (link)then he has ever gotten. I have to say though if you take as much incoming fire as Rumsfeld has you are pretty much being flattered to death..heh
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
No, I don't think I'll do either.
Third Street (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 3:29AM EST (link)Leave the personality-cult stuff to the Democrats. I’m personally willing to consider Sarah Palin as the 2012 race takes shape (and it is a political eternity before that happens), but first she’ll have to convince me why I should support her over a field of other conservative GOP candidates, candidates who will have more impressive records of accomplishment than she and who didn’t abruptly quit the previous posts they were elected to. Because that field will exist, and many of them will arguably be more electable than she is.
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”
Nobody's asking for a cult of personality.
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 4:15PM EST (link)I’m asking you to not provide ammunition to our political enemies.
If you can’t figure out the difference between those, that’s your problem.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Seems to be more your problem than mine, bucko.
Third Street (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 4:38PM EST (link)But thanks for your concern.
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”
You do realize the two of you are fighting over 2012 primary candidates, right?
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 4:45PM EST (link)I only ask because there is that pesky 2010 election that you should be focused on.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Indeed...
Third Street (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 5:50PM EST (link)2010 is the prize to keep our eyes on.
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”
Gee Finrod was the whole STFU really needed?
Michael Dugas (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 4:41PM EST (link)Kinda school yard no? Doesn’t really get your point across as someone will be zeroing in on the STFU and not your point.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Keep it civil
anthonynewman299 Tuesday, November 17th at 5:51PM EST (link)Regardless of whether you think SP will be a good candidate in 2012 (I don’t think she would make a good president), the descent of the conversation into bullying reminds me of the shout-downs at town halls this past summer. It served no purpose other than to feed the media frenzy.
“I shall be a star lamp unto the world.”
Shout-downs? Really? nt
mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 6:06PM EST (link)usque ad finem
Agreed.
coatsies Tuesday, November 17th at 6:39PM EST (link)Thank you anthonynewman299. I agree.
I’ve been called every name in the book in the blogosphere world. People seem to like to label and shout-down than talk about why they find my ideas objectionable.
I’m an independent that leans left but likes to hear both sides of topics and I appreciate the tenor you hope to set here. Let’s talk ideas, and why we hold the ones we do, rather than insults, and how well we can sling them.
Kudos,
–Stevo
AMEN
Michael Dugas (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 6:43PM EST (link)n/t
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
For the record, calling troll...
mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 8:26PM EST (link)On coatsies and anthonynewman299. Dugas, I see your point, but agreeing so emphatically with trolls makes you seem, well, trollish.
usque ad finem
Respectfully MsSchmitt I've been here Quite Awhile
Michael Dugas (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 10:22PM EST (link)…and whether they were trolls or not, if they say something I agree with I have no problem saying so.
And this website is all about ideas, debate and discussions. None of which are aided by telling people you are talking to to STFU.
They immediately stop paying attention to anything you might be saying that is worth while and all they usually see is the STFU.
I have no problem agreeing with ANYONE whose talking about keeping the discourse civil.
I am always having to watch myself because I will get a bit too passionate about a subject and can easily fall into that same
behavior. Just recently on FB Haystack had to reel me in before i said something in a manner I’d regret and I appreciate it because it’s not the impression I wish to give.
Besides…I’m more of am Ogre than a Troll. =)
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Respectfully, I know. No major offense intended....
mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 10:32PM EST (link)Just annoyed with the little nippers today, that’s all.
usque ad finem
Understandable
Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, November 18th at 12:36AM EST (link)=) Sometimes you want to just reach through the monitor
and give them a whack in the head.
No offense taken.
Catch ya later! Have a good one !
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Actually
Finrod (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 12:55AM EST (link)I figured the ‘objectively pro-Obama’ bit I quoted from RS McCain would get under people’s skin more.
We don’t need ‘anybody but Palin’ people any more than we need the ‘only Palin can save us’ people. The latter are wasting time, space and energy, but the former are helping the Other Side while thinking they are being intelligent and clever.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Obama - Palin contrasts
David123 (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 2:01PM EST (link)Male – Female
Rev Wright sayings – God BLESS America
Insider – Outsider
Indecisive – Decisive
Sour defeatism – Sunny optimism
Internationalist – American
——————————————–
Conservatives should have vague political perscriptions: Get the government out of the way and let people solve problems themselves.
David123
You forgot some...
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 2:12PM EST (link)Totally inexperienced at governing – Totally inexperienced at governing.
No accomplishments prior to candidacy – No accomplishments…
Team of Marxist Advisers – No advisers.
Sarah has things she can contribute. Rhetoric, fund raising (still to be seen), single issue focus. All good things. None qualify her for any office.
She was absolutely over her head as Governor of AK, accomplished nothing (gas line is at best a “wait and see”), and ran off when the heat got turned on. Replace Oprah, sure. Replace Obama, not in this life.
I have no clue who will be the nominee in ’12. It most likely won’t be Palin. Hopefully it won’t be Huckabee. Either of those two and Obama is a two term President in a walk.
I realize this is a polemic,
cwilson (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 2:43PM EST (link)and exaggeration is the name of the game, but really. Totally inexperienced at governing? No accomplishments? (I won’t quibble with no advisors; right now that looks like strength to me, not a weakness, given how poorly our profession political class of advisors have been doing for the last four years or so — and I have no idea who Sarah!! talks to behind closed doors; I’m betting you don’t either).
I like Sarah!!, but am not sold on her — her record is, at this date, thin. (Romney? Yay Salt Lake Olympics. Boo pseudo-conservative “epiphany”. Boo ObamaCare Preview. It may not be “thin” — but his record is decidedly mixed. Pawlenty? Hasn’t been a big player, really, and that right there is problematic.)
I’m waiting to see what Sarah!! (and the other possible candidates) does over 2010 cycle before making up my mind about her. But the kneejerk “No qualifications” stuff is just as off-putting as the “greatest thing since Ronaldus Magnus” chant.
Geez. I sound like a frickin’ “moderate” (let’s tone down the rhetoric, blah blah blah). Ugh. You have NO idea how odd that is for me.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! –Samuel Adams
cwilson, on moderation, I
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 3:28PM EST (link)discovered my inner, squishy moderate on another thread today. And moreover, I agree with a moderate’s wait and see on Palin’s role above what she chooses to do right now. Sometimes I think it is a form of denial by those of us who are appalled by the present to skip over the next 2 years and speculate on what ought to happen then. We need more cavalry, not groupies. If we had elected he who garnered the most groupies on our side, we’d have had a different man from Hope calling the shots. We will do well to reflect soberly on what will be necessary to overturn rule by rockstar, instead of duplicating the effort in ’12.
No polemic. Simple facts.
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 5:33PM EST (link)Palin’s list of accomplishments in AK consist of the following:
1. Raising the state budget both years she sent one to the legislature.
2. The vaporware pipeline.
3. Stabbing Republicans in the back.
4. Passing the ethics laws that she blamed for her resignation.
5. Oh yeah, there is no 5.
See Art’s comments on her “governing”.
With respect to Mitt, he’s no better. All you note about him is correct. I made the same arguments about him – and a lot more – in the 08 primary.
You keep repeating this crap sans context
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 2:24AM EST (link)1. Show me one governor anywhere any decade that wouldn’t raise the budget at least somewhat if state revenues had tripled. Alaska’s one of the few states right now that doesn’t have any budgetary problems, even though those higher revenues have subsequently disappeared. Yet you want to tear Sarah down instead of giving her any credit at all. I call your point 1 utter crap.
2. Vaporware is pejorative. The verdict is out on the pipeline as you more honestly have said elsewhere.
3. So you’re going to tell me that every single Republican ousted was pure as the driven snow? I call utter crap on this one too. If we can’t police our own, we don’t deserve to be in power.
4. If you could have foreseen in 2007 that an army of liberals would descend on Alaska in 2009 and try to game the state ethics laws, then please tell me your stock picks and your lottery numbers, because that would make you the best prophet since the apostle John wrote the Book of Revelation. Sure, the state ethics laws turned out to be susceptible to a denial of service attack, but nobody could have foreseen this in 2007. I call utter crap on this one too.
Governing, I’m willing to agree with a number of Art’s points, though not his personal bile about her.
I’m calling the RS McCain rule on you (see earlier comment). Show us someone better or STFU, else you’re objectively pro-Obama.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
OK Finrod, by the numbers:
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 5:36AM EST (link)1. The budget would have gone up and gone up markedly because of the revenue. That said, the billion dollar “energy rebate” was pure pandering and caused all sorts of budget problems in the next session. The ACES revenue scheme has essentially caused the industry to abandon new development in Alaska. New development requires high prices and at high prices, ACES takes all the money. It was pandering populism and nothing more.
2. The word “vaporware” is becoming more and more common here. As the AP fact check points out, she adopted a bunch of TransCanada expatriates because they had left Murkowski in a huff, that was her primary qualification for people who had actually done anything in government. They served up AGIA to their old masters at TransCanada and put a half billion dollar garnish on it.
3. I’ll tell you that Sarah Palin didn’t have a damned thing to do with any of the ousting of office holders other than Randy Ruedrich and her version of that story is pure fantasy. I’m not saying she’s lying. Sarah doesn’t lie; she believes her fantasies.
4. I know I’d have simply scoffed at those ethics charges HAD I BEEN INNOCENT. I lived under the same laws substantively as she did and I’ve faced all sorts of charges and accusations and never spent a dime on legal assistance. I was a long time employee who knew the travel rules backwards and forwards. I’m an arrogant ass who likes to live fairly lavishly and knew how to stay in good hotels and make the State pay for as much of it as possible, and I would never have done some of the things she did: haul the kids along, haul Todd along, charge per diem when she was living at home. Sure, a pet board let her off the hook and fundamentally some of it is simply a political problem, not a rule violation per se. She solved that didn’t she? The one that frosts my butt is the email scam she’s perpetrated and managed to convince so many that she’s a victim over. If you do State business on a State sytem, it is a public record. If it is actually State business and you do it on a private system it is a public record. There is NO special Sarah rule on that.
She made a lot of her cred with all her ethics crap; she of all people should have been as pure as the driven snow. And if you believe that she and Todd weren’t behind all the pressure to get rid of Wooten, I have a bridge we can talk about. Wooten probably should have been gotten rid of, but you have to do it legal; you can’t just have one of your Wasilla Hillbillies call the Troopers and say, Won’t someone rid me of this turbulent Trooper?
And, I have every right to bile towards her, though you’re wrong that it is personal bile; she’s never done anything to me directly other than cast a shadow on my and a lot of other people’s reputations with all her crap about her cleaning up old boys and such. The woman was simply a lousy governor, totally self-centered and self=interested who ran on pander politics leaving a trail of dead bodies behind her, mostly Republicans who had helped her. She quit because that ethics act she liked to brag about was sitting between her and a very big payday. Y’all enjoy having her in the Lower 48 for awhile; nobody much here misses her and all the drama.
In Vino Veritas
Your points are different than mbecker's points
Finrod (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:15AM EST (link)So mbecker needs to change his script if he wants to keep whining about Sarah. I’ve never claimed she is perfect, just that what mbecker keeps posting has nothing to do with reality. You’re welcome to your opinions.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Agree.
acat (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 2:07PM EST (link)Sarah needs seasoning outside Alaska.
A cabinet-level post in the next Repub administration may be a good choice, something that gives her experience dealing with the hive of scum and villainy that is the Democrat party in Congress.
Acting as a cheerleader and firing up the base in 2010 and 2012 should, assuming a Repub replaces Obama, should let her get this seasoning.
To be blunt, Sarah has to do *unarguably better* than an equivalent male. Only being “as good as” will not cut it.
Mew
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
Having worked in both,
Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 2:54PM EST (link)if you can handle Juneau, you can handle DC; both are hives of scum and villainy. Juneau is worse in some ways because there is NO anonymity; everybody knows you, watches you, and keeps score; a careless word in a bar or restaurant is on your boss’ desk or on the front page the next morning. You can hide out unless you’re really prominent in DC.
Palin’s problem is she didn’t like or much stay in Juneau and surrounded herself with disciples; they may have been loyal to her but they knew nothing about governing and got her in lots of trouble. She was so into being the Un-Murkowski that she ran off almost all the Murkowski appointtees and either let the Democrat holdover run things or brought in malcontents; if you’d quit or been fired from the Murkowski Administration, that was a recco for her administration and that got her the vaporware gas line and got the Canadians half a billion dollars of Alaska’s money.
It’s her own fault that she has next to no experience in actually governing anything bigger than Wasilla, Alaska, and governing Wasilla, or any other small town in Alaska, isn’t really much of a challenge since the State does most everything that a local government does elsewhere in the Country. If she had actually been interested in doing anything other than making a splash as Governor, there is plenty to learn and do since Alaska’s is far and away the most powerful governorship in the Country and you manage things at what would be several different levels of government elsewhere. But, she didn’t like it, didn’t much do it, and when the big money started to glimmer, that Ethics Act that she liked to brag about passing was between her and payday, so she quit and became a temporarily famous author. We’ll see how it works out for the Country and the Republican Party. So far it has worked out pretty well for Sarah Palin.
In Vino Veritas
Your Hypothesis Leads To ... Tim Pawlenty?
Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 3:07PM EST (link)A while back, I said TPaw may be my sleeper pick for 2012 and he has only got more traction.
The funny thing is that his seemingly biggest liability may eventually become an asset – his lack of starpower.
He is the anti-Obama. No pomp and circumstance. No complex ambiguous background. A simple man. A two term governor with a real record. A nuts and bolts politician, as compared to the grandiose rhetorician.
Pawlenty ... could work.
acat (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:08PM EST (link)The way Tim has played the Minnesota Dem-controlled legislature (like a fiddle) is impressive. He comes across, to this outside observer, as a non-dramatic, competent manager.
Being in Illinois, of course, by the time the primary gets here, the nor’east RINOs will probably have picked someone else anyway.
Mew
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
Possibly
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:18PM EST (link)The “opposites elect” hypothesis could mean in 2012:
Rock Star(Obama) – Utility Player(Pawlenty).
If Sarah gets behind him – look out.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
Pawlenty couldn't draw a crowd with free beer.
Tbone (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:04PM EST (link)Nothin’ but a putz. If Palenty was worth a nickle, it would be Senator Coleman.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Free beer.....where? (nt)
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:06PM EST (link)______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Sarah's giving out free beer?
speciallist (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 12:19AM EST (link)where at?…we’ll meet up
If not Palin...
azaeroprof (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 3:39PM EST (link)then who?
Unless Obama completely tanks and we’re in a full-blown Depression in 2012 (I wouldn’t rule that out at this point), there will still be around 40% or so of the voters who would jump off a cliff for him. Yes, some of the shine is off, but he still has the charisma and much of the devoted following he had in 2008. And if he’s actually on the ballot, they’ll mostly show up.
Just because some of the bloom is off the rose doesn’t mean the public will choose a blade of grass over a flower. If we want to beat him, we must have someone with at least comparable charisma and ability to generate enthusiasm amongst their supporters. No matter what you think of Palin, her performance as AKGOV, her resignation, her book, etc., RIGHT NOW there is noone in the GOP who can generate 1/10th of the excitement on a large-scale basis. (Yes, Fred gets many of us conservatives excited, but not much beyond a small core.)
Maybe someone will emerge in the next 18 months with a stronger track record than Palin and somewhere near the excitability level. Maybe not. But to think that the public will rally behind a piece of dry toast like Tim Pawlenty, or a Nelson Rockefeller masquerading as Reagan II like Mitt Romney, or a Mike Huckabee, will just lead us to another loss in 2012, albeit a little closer than 2008 (maybe).
Think back to 1996
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 3:49PM EST (link)Who, think back to 1996 and who ran against Slick Willy.
If it’s hopeless, probably Mitt Robot Man Romney.
If it’s really hopeless and nobody thinks there is a chance in Hades of beating his Obamaness, Hucka Hucka, he’s running right now.
But what happens if the excrement hits the fan here in the US late in the run up to the Republican convention with something like a domestic terrorist event? I’d argue that the Iranian hostage crisis back in the late 70′s helped to sink Carter, or at least was a factor. Thank goodness that Ronnie was the guy who took the nomination.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Yes, Steve.
azaeroprof (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 4:01PM EST (link)I think you’re probably right on the first two comments.
But who are you saying should be Ronnie in your last scenario, or are you intentionally leaving that unspecified? Unfortunately for us, Obama is more politically astute and less of a total dweeb than Jimmuh. Even with a virtual repeat of the Iranian hostage crisis, we still need a candidate that gets people pumped up to vote for him/her. I don’t see any of the people mentioned, except Palin, meeting that criterion.
We might be helped, though, by a Hillary Clinton candidacy if Obama’s stock has fallen far enough. We have to be careful about rooting for that, though, or we’re likely to get stuck with President HIllary!
Don't know
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 4:13PM EST (link)azaeroprof
I really don’t know who right now has the inside track for 2012.
One thing about Reagan, he didn’t just show up on people’s radar. Nope he had been on the Chicken and Peas dinner circuit for a long long time and almost took the nomination from Ford in ’76. Throw in eight years as governor of CA in very turbulent times, throw in his years writing, debating people like William F. Buckley and others, Reagan was well prepared to run against the Peanut man.
But here’s the thing, the Republican party has this habit of nominating “the next in line”, Dole as my example and W. Bush as somewhat proof. Probably the better question is who is the establishment R. that can get the big bucks flowing to make a run? Right now, that’s probably Mitt Robot Man Romeny, who by the way has seemly gone invisible of late.
By the way, if anything will stop a Palin run in 2012, it would be her inability to appeal to the big money donors who really fund runs for office. Both Bushs’ were good at that, as was Romney. For sure Palin would attract money from the base, but serious money needed for national runs comes from establishment types, something Hucka Hucka learned the hard way last time around.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
It's the Reagan comparison that has me concerned about Palin.
The_Gadfly (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 9:13AM EST (link)When Ford won the primary in 76, many at the convention turned to each other after Reagan’s speech and said “we just elected the wrong candidate.” The same thing can be said for 2008 – the only exciting candidate (and I was a Fredhead) was Palin. She has all of the Reagan attributes except two: evidence of a clear and well developed conservative vision of the world, and the experience of winning while under fire. One of the reasons Reagan was able to confront communism the way he did on the world stage was that he had fought against them and won before: as president of the Screen Actors Guild. One of the reasons he was able to wield power properly as President was because he’d learned the ropes as Governor of California (where his first 2 years were actually pretty bad). But the rest of it she’s pretty much nailed. In 2012 that may be enough. Because I expect the problems emanating from the WH to continue.
Oh, and you can include McCain
The_Gadfly (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 9:16AM EST (link)in your list of candidates who got the nod because “it was his turn.” At
I always do.
On Mitt
redtillimdead (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 5:20PM EST (link)Remember, Reagan started out liberal on social issues. He signed a bill that helped women receive abortions, raised taxes, and supported FDR and the New Deal. Look how good he turned out! Some Conservatives aren’t born Conservative. As for an exciting/charismatic candidate:
Rick Perry
Bobby Jindal
Bob McDonnell
John Thune
Rob Portman (VP?)
Ron Paul
MICHAEL WILLIAMS (VP?)
Michelle Bachman (maybe not the best idea?)
Paul Ryan
Marco Rubio (VP?)
Rudy Giuliani
Kelly Ayotte (VP?)
Now, not all of these are too excting, but most are pretty charismatic and young (with the exception of Giuliani and Paul)
Nancy Pelosi can kiss my asstroturf.
Which ones can rase money?
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 5:29PM EST (link)redtillimdead
Which ones of those folks can raise the $50 Million Plus dollars it will take to run effectively in the Republican primary in 2012?
If you look at the last election cycle many of the early drop outs were caused by not being able to raise the money to conduct an effective campaign as anything else. Hucka Hucka had lots of problems with that, and in response he became the master of free media.
If you want to see who is running in 2012, watch how or if they start raising money to run, and the earlier they start is better, facing his Obamness who has the power of incumbency to raise tons of money.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
I can think of 4
redtillimdead (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 12:38AM EST (link)Mitt Romney, who still has his 2008 organization and his PAC, Pawlenty since he’s starting now, Paul because of the Paulists, and. of course, Palin.
There are a few others who MAY be able to raise enough money.
Thune, because he is likely to go un-opposed next year and will have his senate campaign money and has a huge base of support
Bachman, who also has a huge base
Nancy Pelosi can kiss my asstroturf.
Maybe.
azaeroprof (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 5:49PM EST (link)Maybe one of these (or another) may emerge and ignite the party. But right now, only Ron Paul (dear God) and MAYBE Rudy Giuliani could fill a 1000-seat auditorium outside their home state, let alone pull in 60,000 like Palin did last year in The Villages in Florida.
If he can win the FL Senate seat and start getting his profile elevated, I think Rubio has the potential to generate that kind of excitement, but that’ll take some time.
Most of the others are conservative darlings among activists, but have yet to prove they can be attractive to the bulk of the voters, and almost all of them are completely unknown to the average voter.
A list of losers to a Palin run.
Tbone (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:08PM EST (link)Do you really believe any of these guys could beat her in the primary? LOL.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Who then, azaeroprof?
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 5:42PM EST (link)The point is, nobody now. Discussing who the R nominee should be in ’12 is nothing more than mental masturbation.
The outcome of the ’10 election should have a huge effect on who we nominate. I will be the first to admit the win in ’94 had no effect on the ’96 nominee – we nominated the guy who’d been waiting in line the longest, as usual – but hopefully we’ve learned at least one thing.
We have no clue what the issues will be in ’12 – a bunch of that will depend on what Harry&Nancy can shove through the Congress before that. Also, what the state of the world is going to look like in ’12.
Personally, the last thing we need to do is nominate the R version of Obama – somebody who can generate excitement. Sarah does excitement well but other than that, she’s an empty dress. Actually, come to think of it, she fit pretty well with McCain.
Nothing wrong with...
azaeroprof (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:03PM EST (link)a little mental masturbation. It’s good meaningless fun!
You’re absolutely right that we have no clue what the landscape will be leading up to 2012, so it’s just meaningless speculation for at least another year plus.
One warning, though. This far out, we have to be careful about eating our own. We need all hands on deck getting out the conservative message. I’ve been guilty of this myself, even on this thread, when it comes to Pawlenty and Romney. I need to be more supportive of them and anyone else who is out there promoting the cause. And I hope that you graduates of Art’s School of Palin Bashing (ASPB since Art likes acronyms
) can allow her to be on our team, too.
Neither Art or I are engaging in
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:19PM EST (link)Palin bashing. I’d love to simply ignore the subject, but when people start posting crap (not referring to your post) about her – or Mitt, or Huck – I’m not standing by and letting it pass. Generally speaking that’s pretty much Art’s stance as well.
We’ve pretty well managed to beat the ‘bots to death here at Redstate and I intend to continue to make it a hostile place for them.
Bashing? The only diary I've done about SWWOG
Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:02PM EST (link)in months was complimentary. Now when somebody starts up the hagiographies about her, I beg to differ. That said, when I look at the National level, she’s as good as any and better ‘n most. I just don’t want to hear all the crap about how experienced she is and what a victim she was. She’s a conniving self-promoter who’s done a Helluva sight better than dumb old John McCain over that VP bid. She’s gone from upper middle class by Alaska standards to fairly wealthy by anyone’s standards from it.
In Vino Veritas
She has leveraged that "second banana" slot
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:10PM EST (link)Pretty darned well, hasn’t she? She currently has a much higher national presence than her running mate does.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
I will be ROFLMAO when you and Becker
Tbone (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:15PM EST (link)have to vote for her in 2012.
I really have nothing positive to say about her qualifications but she can draw a crowd, raise money, inspire her followers and win the nomination.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
I'll vote for her if she's the nominee. Just like I voted for her
Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:25PM EST (link)when she was the nominee for Governor. Over the years I’ve become quite good at holding my nose while voting.
In Vino Veritas
Haven't we all! nt
Tbone (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:33PM EST (link)Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Yes, Art.
azaeroprof (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 11:32PM EST (link)I give you that one (and hopefully you saw my shout out to you on fb since rs won’t let me comment on your diaries). And even in your 3rd sentence above, you’re pretty complimentary.
It’s not that I don’t respect your first-hand knowledge of her or even disagree with some of your criticisms, it just seems like you won’t pass up any chance to reiterate it. As a Palin fan, though a realistic one, it just gets a little old to constantly see the same one or two folks talking her down on my favorite conservative site. I’d rather have that kind of response mostly limited to HuffPo or dKos where I can easily ignore it.
And my main point is not that she’s that great from an experience or accomplishment perspective, just pointing out the fact that we cannot beat Obama without a candidate that gets folks fired up. If we had one with that ability that was more qualified than Palin, I’d be as happy as anyone else.
Oh, and BTW, I much prefer SWWOG to SWMNBN!! Good choice!
azaeroprof, we can't beat Comrade Obama in '12.
Achance (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 10:57PM EST (link)If we have an attractive candidate to take advantage of it, he might beat himself, but the vestigial remains of the Republican Party in the Post-Bush Era ain’t beating Comrade Obama or any other credible Democrat. We’re still the Gang That Can’t Shoot Straight.
I’m fine with Palin as a political celebrity and fund raiser. Hopefully, she’ll actually take the time to get some knowledge and experience at the National perspective level and then she’ll run against and defeat Begich in ’14 and see what happens from there. That’s not an assurance that I’d support her Senate run in the primary, however. But, if she’s the nominee, I’m there.
In Vino Veritas
macaca
bambooboy Monday, November 16th at 7:12AM EST (link)one year to mainstream this word&you have your man
What problem does Palin have to solve?....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 3:59PM EST (link)you ASSUME she is running in 2012 she has not said she is. I think up and until she says she is WE really ought not sit back and ASSUME anything about her! She has a book tour she is going on and she is helping the Conservative Movement at this time other then that EVERYTHING is speculation!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Good point, but that IS the assumption many of us are making
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:12PM EST (link)On both sides of the aisle.
This post is a bit of “let’s be honest with ourselves”. I don’t assume Sarah is preparing a Presidential run, but this is a problem if she is.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
Actually "lets be honest with ourselves" and DROP...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:11PM EST (link)ALL talk of 2012 because WE have a slaughter to incur on teh House with about 80+ seats to extract from the leftists!
I for one like Sarah and wish her well after that she has a life to live and I am not going to pick it apart because some want to discuss her future before she even decides it for herself.
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Agreed
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:35PM EST (link)Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
Sarah doesn't like losing and unless Comrade Obama
Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:11PM EST (link)is mortally wounded she’d lose. I look for her to stay visible, raise money and build up chits, then take on the Boy Senator in ’14. Then from a springboard in the US Senate, she can test the Presidential waters.
In Vino Veritas
I wish all 2012 talk would just stop.
Loren Heal (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 4:14PM EST (link)It’s way too early to be concerned about 2012.
On the other hand, I think if Mrs. Palin were interested in running for President, she’s doing it wrong. She should be running for Congress, to get herself into DC.
On the other other hand, nobody in the counry has her appeal. No one.
On the other other other hand, the media and Democrats (BIRM) hate her.
On the o-o-o-other hand, if the current mood in the country continues as it is, she could win as a write-in.
–
Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.
Agreed 100 percent.
Finrod (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:14PM EST (link)November 3, 2010. 2012 talk is out of bounds until we deal with the 2010 elections.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Gee, Socrates,
Steph C (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 11:56AM EST (link)I didn’t realize you had that many hands.
On the other hand (mine, not one of your 4) I agree with you. However it is fun to talk about because you can literally watch the pressure inflating the lefty heads at the thought we might seriously consider someone they have tried to destroy.
Kinda like that guy in that lame movie “Big Trouble in Little China” blew himself up after discovering that his master was dead.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
Not to toot my own horn, but
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:20PM EST (link)I’ve got 29 comments and not a single recommendation.
Let’s get this up on the reco list where we can keep having this debate.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
I gave you one :) nt
mom2oneson (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:58PM EST (link)THX :)
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:06PM EST (link)Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
Recommend it for what?
Tbone (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:20PM EST (link)Getting comments for a Palin diary is a little less difficult than a Ron Paul diary. Plus, this isn’t even a good Palin diary. My recommendation is to write about something more topical than Palin 2012.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
What Tbone said. nt
Loren Heal (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 7:45PM EST (link)nt
–
Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.
True enough, Palin IS a comment attractor
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 11:20PM EST (link)But that’s not what I’m getting at – we need to be realistic about our Presidential contenders. This is a Palin diary in the sense that will be important in 2102 – and how Palin may be the wrong candidate.
It is “topical” as she is constantly thrown up by both her fans and detractors as a 2012 Presidential nominee – and especially this week with her book coming out.
I am very interested in how I could write a better diary, on any subject. I aim to improve and any constructive criticism is welcome. Write me at weimerrj(at)gmail.com.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
2012 election is not "topical"...
discerningconservative (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 11:22PM EST (link)Do you not understand that the entire House and several Senators are up for re-election in 2010? Not to mention several Governors. We can worry about 2012 after that.
Yes, but thinking beyond that is acceptable, no?
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 11:38PM EST (link)We can do both, yes?.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
You can do what you want...
discerningconservative (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 11:47PM EST (link)Do you know what issues will affect the 2012 elections? Will anything happen between now and then that might affect the candidates you are considering for 2012? Seems kinda nonsensical to put too much thought into it now. I will keep my focus on 2010, and when the time comes I will worry about 2012. Like I said, do what you think is best. I for one think a 3 year Presidential election is just a little too much.
Okay, we focus on 2010, but keep an eye
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 12:01AM EST (link)on the future beyond. It is not hard. I know the difference between what’s right and what’s right now.
Anyway, this is my diary, we discuss my analysis, however
relevant you think it is.
Want to bring the subject to what you think is important?
Write a diary of your own.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
I wasn't knocking your diary.
discerningconservative (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 12:09AM EST (link)I was giving my opinion of it. That is what the comment section is for. If you cannot understand that, I am sorry. Maybe you are just too stupid to figure it out. As for your attitude, I hope you choke on it.
Actually, you are.
Jeff Weimer (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 12:35AM EST (link)I was only pointing to one thing that may be an obstacle to a possible Palin candidacy. But I’m told by you and others that I shouldn’t talk about this, we have 2010 to worry about. I don’t disagree 2010 is important and right now. But I still think this is a discussion we should have now anyway, as it is a current topic – or is it not being discussed in domestic and foreign newspapers? I pulled my hook for this diary from a current foreign newspaper article.
You essentially tell me to talk about something else, so I tell you, what’s the subject? Write it up, and we’ll discuss it. You tell me I’m stupid and to choke on my attitude. Nice.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
-Voltaire
Are you really that dense?
discerningconservative (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 12:48AM EST (link)I never told you to talk about something else. I told you that my opinion was that 2012 was not important at this time. An opinion that is shared by many here. I never even commented on the content of your diary, but on your comment above. You said that Palin in 2012 was “topical”. I disagree. Even if you find articles about it, it is still 3 years away and nobody even knows what issues will be facing the country at that time. Given Obama’s ability to add new challenges to our country, who knows how bad it could be. As far as my telling you to choke on your attitude, I meant it.
Jeff, comments and recommendations are independent factors
civil truth (Diary) Monday, November 16th at 11:41PM EST (link)Now it is true that diaries that make the recommended list often end up with a lfair number of comments, but this is not always the case, and oft times most of the comments are posted after the diary reaches the list.
However, the converse is often not true. For instance, this recent 169 comment diary did not get a single recommendation
Carrie Prejean Does not Represent Me
Now your diary is of much better quality, but the fact remains that comments does not equate with whether a diary should be recommended.
Some diaries and topic stimulate more comments – and not infrequently a slew of comments represents more heat than light.
Recommendation usually indicates a vote of confidence for the quality of the writing or insight – and/or a desire to bring it to the attention of readers so that it doesn’t get lost in the crowd.
Be content that you have stimulated conversation, and also note that people who check recent comments will find links to this post.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
SARAH: AVOID THE SNAKES
reelman (Diary) Sunday, November 15th at 6:39PM EST (link)SARAH: STAY CLEAR OF THE SNAKES!
“Clinton Says She’d Be Glad to Meet Palin Over Coffee
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says she’s never met the one-time Republican vice presidential hopeful and former Alaska governor and thinks it would be very interesting to sit down and talk with her.”….Nov 2009 excerpt
==========
I sincerely hope conservative Republicans with any national ambitions stay clear of the secular socialist Party snakes. They hate you for what you believe (smaller gov-meant, lower taxes, basic morals) and that is never going to change. The socialists have no ethical or moral boundaries. They will lie or at least distort anything a conservative says…plus they will pass on their venom to the minion media (whether its a private meeting or not).
As I used to say to my college Biology students, “What can you learn from a C student”? (ans: how to make a C) Even that is more than you will ever learn from the secular socialist snakes. Eventually we should all learn nothing good or honest can result…so why bother?
The minion media unleashed 11 reporters to “fact check” Sarah’s book. They, of course, nitpicked with snarky comments. Heck, the angry socialists even produced a trashing book to release that looked like a clone of Sarah’s book. What should that tell all thinking Americans?
Were unleashed reporters assigned to fact check that book or Gore or Kerry or Obama? You get it. They leaked nothing as Obama’s life was sealed from the voters as no other candidate’s ever has been. (Now we know why)
Sarah, you can’t get the “snake vote” so do what Reagan did…go directly to the voters, to Americans…Couric and Gibson should be lessons enough for you. Also avoid the loser Republicans…we all know what you can learn from them.
http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish
“Ignore what is said, watch what is done”
The problem is congress…is congress…
Secular Socialism is never the answer…
“This is where we hold them, this is where we fight”
The “reelman” in central Louisiana
If Obama's planned legislations get through
Michael Dugas (Diary) Tuesday, November 17th at 5:02PM EST (link)there’s no way he’ll win in 2012.Cap and Trade and Obama care alone along with his administrations inability to deal with our current monetary problems will have us in the middle of an economic melt down with a dollar worth less than the paper it’s printed on, sky rocketing inflation, huge unemployment etc etc etc.
He won’t win a free election that is. That’s not to say he won’t try to use the disaster he created to cause a constitutional crisis with a Chavez/Zelaya type response at keeping his seat in power.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !