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Sorry to Say, But Rand Paul is Toast

I just watched Rand Paul on Rachel Maddow, I’m sorry to say that he has a firm grasp on the 3rd rail of Racial Politics and doesn’t seem to want to let go.  This will be a HUGE issue in MSM over the next few days.  While he says a lot of great things about abhorring discrimination and his support for anti-discriminatory laws for public places, he just can’t bring himself to agree with segregated lunch counters being unlawful.  His elusiveness was painful to watch.  It would have been better to be direct rather than evasive. I understand his point completely — I lean libertarian and as a strict matter of Constitutional principle, he may be right.  But a Senate race is the wrong place to have this discussion. If you think the MSM and Democrats misrepresent the Arizona mindset, wait til they get started on this.

Too bad, he would have been a great Senator.

COMMENTS

  • http://conservativestateproject.blogspot.com/ SE-779
  • Tbone

    weren’t going to vote for him anyway and the other 5% will vote for him anyway.

  • NH_GOP

    Sorry James but a post like this makes me think you are a shill for the LEFT.

    Rand was simply having a philosophical discussion about how far the gov’t should go to tell us what to do. He is clearly not a racist in any way shape or form because he is also very religious and it would be against his faith.

    If you are worried about this, then I fear you have been corrupted and coopted by the MSM and the likes of snakes like Rachel Maddow and MSNBC.

    Why even give this any ink? As far as these left wing nutjobs are, the lot of us are all racists, no matter what or who we are, so long as we are ‘conservative’…. Let them stick to this non-credible assertion and it will carry no weight.

    As we speak I’m listening to a guy who says that he had to take a class in college that forced you to say you are a racist or you could not graduate.

    Who the hell cares what Rachel Maddow does in her interviews that are obviously meant to try to incriminate?

  • JamesSmith130

    and I would argue that several parts of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were unconstitutional, and that many of the decisions of the Supreme Court in that period of time on forced integration were not in line with the Constitution (e.g. Loving v Virginia). And other parts were constitutional, but just bad policy and led to much worse policy (forced integration and busing).

    But I agree with you that he shouldn’t have been elusive. He should have said, yes I would have voted against the Civil Rights Act because it much of it was unconstitutional, but before I did, I would have fought tooth and nail to pass a constitutional version of the Civil Rights Act.

    I still think Rand Paul will win because this will be a heavily anti-Dem year. Heck, I’m willing to bet that a significant minority or even a majority of people in Kentucky agree with Rand Paul on this.

  • georgeinla

    As a black person who was one of Rand’s earliest donors, this one is going to be tough to explain. But Republicans are going to have to get some testicular fortitude this election season. The Left is going to go crazy accusing everyone of racism, and seize on every single little statement by anyone remotely associated as proof. But ultimately, they’re “30 percenters”. You’re racist if you support the Arizona immigration law, yet 70 percent of Americans do. Remember, if everyone is a racist, then no one is.

  • jimbo51

    I’m not saying Rand Paul is wrong. But the MSM will have a field day with this. It’s already started. Every Republican will be made to answer the same question now. The issue turns away from Obama to, “Are the Republicans racists?” I hope the electorate is engaged enough to understand the issues. We’ll see.

  • JamesSmith130

    Let’s face it, 90% of people have done something in our lives that could be called “racist”. Unless Rand Paul has something in his history that would show a repeated pattern of “racism” (and even if he does), he is going to be ok.

    I’ll end with something very un-PC, but I think we need to have a debate about whether forced integration and the general third rail attitude about race in the last 40 years has really helped anyone, regardless of race.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Oh, dear.

    Whatever shall we do?

  • NH_GOP

    Does this mean if you were a Kentucky resident you’d vote for the Democrat? C’mon, come clean… who ARE you?

    This man is a well respected doctor and a strong conservative who got 60% of the vote in a GOP district.

    You should be cheering on the unity.

  • ktsub

    We asked for it, just like the social conservatives pushed ahead of fiscal issues…the loosertarians (Libertarian Party faithful), are going to push the GOP bus in a different direction, so I agree party get ready.

    Not a bad thing, but the Paul wing can have a seat on the bus, but we must be able to answer on the merits. The Tea Party is tinged with libertarian ideas, and this cycle the ground troops are not requesting government intervention. This KY race will be interesting…a white liberal southern Democrat, VS. a libertarian Republican, let’s see how it plays out…I vote Rand by a mile.

  • JamesSmith130

    the bill violated the Constitution and private property rights, and was made worse by activist liberal judges.

  • NH_GOP

    You can just tell this is the meme when posters bash the tea party, declaring that it and all republicans were formed for racism to practice racism and there is no other issue at hand. It is simply a non-issue then, because as the above poster says, if everyone is, then no one is.

    And I agree about the testicular fortitude!

  • JamesSmith130

    he won’t win by that much, and if this was 2006 or 2008, he probably would have lost, but this is just too heavy of a GOP year for an unknown liberal Democrat to win this race.

  • NH_GOP

    Rand is a Republican, never has been a libertarian.

    Can you explain what you mean by ‘tinged’ with libertarian ideas? Perhaps they want a bit too little government for your tastes? This can only be a good thing.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    …will have to explain his fairly consistent if somewhat hard-shelled libertarian worldview for the next five months, and people are going to shriek about racism nonetheless. It’s just that… this is news?

  • constitutionalconservative

    America is tired of their hypocrisy. Their bullhorn may seem big, but the so-called MSM has a weaker hold than ever on American public opinion. They are going to howl over the next few days, maybe even weeks– they’ll probably find some RINOs to join them. But we are going to stand firm. The sorts of 10th amendment and freedom of associationn issues he talks about are at the core of what our movement should be about.

    Rand Paul is not going to back down, and he is going to win the race against liberal career politician Jack Conway. And the media, for once, is going to be stunned speechless.

  • rrreaganite

    For some reason I don’t see the novelty or legitimacy in this.

  • Flagstaff

    why didn’t Trey use it in the primary? Or did he? Or did the LSM save it for the general election intentionally?

    And why did he allow himself to be interviewed by Rachel Maddow?

  • JamesSmith130

    is a leftie rag who held the tapes until Paul got the nomination.

    Paul is an idealist, and believes that ideas need to be debated, and in that spirit, thinking that he’d get a fair shake to debate the issues, went on to the Rachel Maddow show. I don’t think he expected to get ambushed. I hope he learned his lesson on the thuggishness of the left.

  • NH_GOP

    This is where the whole controversy started ——— GRAYSON made the wild accusation that Rand would repeal the 1964 civil rights act. What a joke! Was that even an issue? NO, but it was an exaggeration meant to smear him.

    So the whole thing started with the GOP itself..

    SHAME on Grayson!

    The Pauls are very innocent and trusting people and though many of us have advised them not to, they don’t see a problem being interviewed by these fake journalists.. but I think Rand learned his lesson now.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    In the future, if you have nothing to do but to talk down a Republican nominee, don’t post.

    Thanks,

    Mgmt.

  • cabanon

    I don’t think its un-PC at all and perhaps Rand can articulate that through the campaign. Its a simple position to understand though, should the government be able to force private businesses to change their policies?

  • drohan00

    There are some GOP nominees who need to be talked down from time to time. I just haphazardly remember our erstwhile friend in NY-23 and Arlen Specter, let alone those of us old enough to remember Lowell Weicker Sen. for CT.

    On Paul, I think you are right though. There is no reason to oppose him.. He got 60% of GOP voters in KY to support him. We should see that he gets elected.

  • jimbo51

    I never considered my post to be bashing a Republican candidate, but to be an eary warning of how the MSM and the Democrats were going to use this to bash the candidate, the Tea Party and Republicans in general. If I lived in KY, he would have my vote. But how is this going to evolve? How will Mitch McConnell act when confronted by David Gregory on Meet the Press? It does no good to put our head in the sand. Is the public ready for this discussion in the way the argument will be framed by the MSM? Is the KY Senate race the place to have it? I guess we’ll see. I just watched scathing ridicule of Rand Paul’s position from “conservative” Joe Scarborough and I mourn the fact that KY probably just went from “sure thing” to “toss-up”.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Scozzafava wasn’t a nominee. She was an appointee to the race. There was no primary.

    And Specter… even when he was a Republican nominee there was no reason to try to get him defeated against the Democrat.

    The time to complain about Republican candidates is in the primaries. If the candidate you hate wins, bite your tongue and move the heck on.

  • jimmyg

    I did not see the interview, but read his remarks. Reading his remarks he seemed to be comfortable in his beliefs regarding the Civil Rights Act as it applies to private property, and private businesses, and more than willing to share those beliefs rather than hide from them.

  • rrreaganite

    He stated the same thing at the Courier Journal, NPR and Rachel Maddow. He was very clear that he thought private businesses have the right to deny their services to someone based upon their race. The sentiment is completely unacceptable, as the Civil Rights Act was as much about private entity discrimination as it was about institutional or public discrimination. This is a major gaffe and he needs to retract it. I support him but even someone who is a conservative like myself, cannot support someone who thinks that a private entity has the right to discriminate against someone because of their race, religion or anything else.

  • JamesSmith130

    Laws against private entity discrimination are clearly unconstitutional. It was a bunch of judicial activists on the left that upheld clearly unconstitutional laws in the 1960s and handed down another bunch of bogus decisions as well.

    My problem with Rand’s performance is that he didn’t make his position clear enough. He should have laid the marker, said that the law was unconstitutional, and thus he would have opposed it, but not until trying hard to pass a constitutional version of the law. Rather than that, he was very evasive, seeming that he has something to hide.

  • rrreaganite

    The Civil Rights Act is not unconstitutional, in fact the reason it was Constitutional is because of the 14th amendment. It was pretty clear what Rand meant, and trust me I really like the guy, but what he was saying is that private entities can ban certain people from partaking in their services because they don’t wish to serve individuals of a particular race. I happen to think that line of thinking won’t play well in Kentucky or nationally. All it does is play into stereotypes of tea partiers. I’m willing to bet that Rand will retract that statement, otherwise Kentucky is a toss-up.

    *disclaimer: I don’t mean to bash Paul, as I supported him and still do. But principles are principles. Discrimination is not good politics and is very uncool.

  • jimmyg

    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed the house 290-130, the senate 73-27. The Supreme Court, without dissent, found it constitutional in the above case in late 1964. The opinion that this act is unconstitutional was out of the mainstream in 1964. It is settled law, and the argument that the law is unconstitutional today, is denying reality.

  • Achance

    on the Commerce Clause, but I think Heart of Atlanta is a valid holding. Don’t see how you could find a hotel in a major hub city with an international airport and at the intersection of three interstate highways to NOT be engaged in interstate commerce.

    Moral of this story is that if you’re going to get into Constitutional arguments on TV, especially with lefty hosts, you’d better have your position down to well polled soundbites. Rambling libertarian style discussion of big Constitutional questions gets eyes rolling out there and allows the lefty hosts to mischaracterize what you said. Then you find yourself saying, “but I’m really not a racist.”

  • acat

    mew

  • acat

    The fourteenth applies to government. It’s about States not having the right to pass laws that discriminate between citizens, i.e. creating a bloc of second-class citizens based on genetics, culture, or belief.

    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is, I believe, the one you’re driving at – and it’s mostly held up by the tenth amendment, not the 14th.

    Therefore, in *theory*, a club in a State that uses only resources developed in the State and that does not use Federal currency for its’ exchange could be quite discriminatory and be fine.

    In practice, as long as the club is only excluding white males, the rest doesn’t matter.

    Mew

  • JamesSmith130

    the question is whether he is going to have to retract a lot more of his “unpopular” libertarian views. And then he will be attacked as wishy-washy and a flip-flopper, which would undermine the primary reason why he should be elected in the first place.

    If I was advising Rand, I’d tell him to clearly explain his position, denounce racism once again, and then state that this is not a serious issue in the campaign because repeal of the Civil Rights Bill is not going to happen. But retracting his position is not going to help him.

  • dvdmsr

    When asked about the Civil Rights Act of 1964, this is how I

  • Achance

    and I don’t think makes abusive use of that clause. You can read it here: http://supreme.justia.com/us/379/241/case.html

    There is some point where a person’s rights to freedom of association trumps the federal right to regulate interstate commerce, but I don’t think that point is at a large hotel in a major hub city near the intersection of three interstate highways and an international airport.

  • JamesSmith130

    I guess Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and Robert Bork, three conservatives without a racist bone in their body but who opposed the CRA because they thought it was unconstitutional are out of the mainstream. I guess several people here at Redstate are too.

    And that does not include the harm done because of the Court interpretations of this legislation due to forced integration. This has turned out to be a third rail issue because everyone is scared to be labeled as a racist, but I think that silence, and lack of debate over whether forced integration was helpful to people of any race has been unhelpful to society.

  • JamesSmith130

    with the Heart of Atlanta Hotel, but then certainly it can’t be extended to a hotel or restaurant in a suburban or rural area.

    I don’t agree that simply because out-of-state people may patronize your hotel or restaurant, it is covered by the Commerce clause. I don’t think it is fair to say that in order to not be covered by the Commerce clause, that the business owner has to ban out-of-state people and check IDs.

  • Achance

    I grew up in the Jim Crow South. An easy racism was in the air you breathed. There was nothing remarkable to me or to anyone I knew about White and Colored entrances, waiting rooms at the doctors’ offices, water fountains, “Colored” sections in theaters, even the Courthouse, etc. There generally weren’t “White Only” signs on restaurants, hotels, motels, etc. because it went without saying that they were for whites only unless they were in the “Quarter.” In the Black sections or at the boundary between Black and White sections you’d find hotels and motels that would explicitly say that they were for Colored. Restaurants for Blacks were exclusively in the Black parts of town. Only in the bigger cities or in places along the big federal highways and, later, the interstates might have “White Only” at a lunch counter, restaurant, or hotel/motel because sometimes Yankees came through who didn’t know the rules.

    The one firm and universal rule of segregation is that Blacks and Whites did not eat together except in the fields and they did not share living and sleeping quarters under any circumstances. There was an informal exception for White men sharing certain accomodations with Black women, but the opposite arrangement was pretty much an automatic death sentence, with or without benefit of trial, for a Black man.

    There was a reason MLK put this line in the “Dream” speech: “I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.” Unless you are a White Southerner who was around in those days, you have absolutely no idea how inflammatory that line is. The only line more inciting is this one: “one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.” That one was guaranteed to incite White men to a fit of rage. Little Black boys holding hands wiht little White girls? Few White men would shake hands with a Black man that they had known for a lifetime. Few White men would let their Black laborer or even farm foreman ride in the front seat of the truck with him. I remeber my father catching Hell from “the Boys” at the Feed and Seed because he’d shown up with our foreman in the front seat of the truck and me in the bed. My Dad didn’t care because he was a merchant and as many of his customers were Black as were White and he needed their good will. The rest of the Nation saw that speech as poetic and inspiring; White Southerners in the main saw it as threatening and taunting.

    I remember passage of the ’64 Civil Rights Act. I remember the Preacher railing about the Hellfire and Damnation that was going to rain down on the United States because of it. I was right at 15 that summer and had about reached the place where I’d lost all respect for anything I heard coming from stump, lectern, or pulpit, so that pretty much meant to me that something must be right about it, but I was still a creature of my upbringing and the society around me, so I wasn’t looking to go join the Freedom Riders or anything like that and I’ll plead guilty to having been as bad as any in taunting the two very brave Black students who joined my classes in ’66.

    Western libertarians and Northern conservatives can have nuanced discussions about the fine points of Constitutionality of the law that at least formally ended the world of Jim Crow, Southerners can’t and neither can Blacks. A Southerner either thinks that ending the old ways of The South was an abomination or they think that it was worth it to end it by whatever means were necessary, be that federal troops or laws that might bend the Constitution here and there. I fall in the latter group.

  • Flagstaff

    Younger people mostly have no idea about the realities of the world of our childhood. I was in college in Missouri in 1964, and I truthfully saw no difference on campus after the passage of the Act, but I may have just been oblivious to the changes, too.

    Brown v. BOE was the decision that had the most profound effect on everybody, because it affected the way society interacted everywhere, especially in cities. It was the right decision.

  • JamesSmith130

    from this and your other diaries I have read, you have a real ability to communicate your policy positions using your personal experiences.

    I still disagree with you on the merits, but I can certainly understand your point of view. And perhaps if I had grew up in the South, I’d agree with you.

    My views toward race is shaped more by the crime and busing crises in the North in the 1970s and 1980s than the civil rights movement. As such, I wonder whether integration should have happened at all, and whether it has really helped anyone of any race..

  • Achance

    and experiences from that era, or at least from the ’70s; I left The South in ’74, I spent ’70 to ”74 in Atlanta, the “City Too Busy to Hate.” I’d rather have tried to make the two block walk from my shop in Underground Atlanta to the bank without my pants than without my pistol. If I’d heard my then-wife addressed as “Hey, white bitch” one more time, somebody might well have died. And from my observation, The South is more segregated socially today than it ever was in the days of Jim Crow. No, what has happened since the “Dream” came true in ’64 and ’65 has been a nightmare.

  • NH_GOP

    spend your time spanking these wayward RINOs that start such smears against their own party candidates.

    Rand is still a sure thing. Most thinking people knew he was having a philosophical discussion prefaced by his firm statement on the abhorrence of any sort of racism and the refusal to join any club that practices discrimination!

  • Flagstaff

    had better not speak if he shares it with you.

    what has happened since the