An alternate title: How to alienate friends and never influence others.
[update October 2009, Article's internal Topics links]

“Be respectful, or be banned.” Remember that in/on the Comment box? Name-calling, Ranting and raving, Foul language, Tantrums, Flaming, Personality conflicts, Shout-downs, carrying Grudges across threads, Thread-jacking, Troll-jacking or Troll-jacked, Trollanoia, etc… Other things can and may/will get you banned, not going to even touch any of those here you can/should read (and re-read them if you had before to refresh your memory of some rules/thoughts there-in) the Help files (RS:Help) as this Diary only covers a limited scope of conduct. This is about focusing on the Substance over a particular writers Style.

First, I must make absolutely clear that I am just another guest (Profile) here (like you) that cares, and no more! Umm, that no more is that I am no more than that of a guest, not that cares “no more,” which quickly brings us into the point of how some things may be read/taken two different ways if we are not careful with context, writing or reading (and a demonstration that I can’t avoid a bad pun). I do not wish to give any impression of any site authority. I am just looking to share some things I’ve learned as a guest at RedState and things that concern me that I’m seeing from some of my fellow visitors, especially some fellow Conservatives/Republicans. We are guests at this (and we need to remember there are constant newbies joining, some things need to be repeated/clarified for their benefit at times and they do not yet know others’ personalities/styles), or any other, site and should be conducting ourselves as if we are in our hosts’ homes. Thank you to the Founders of the site, the Directors, Moderators, and assorted other folks (some of whom you’ll see referenced here in the RedState About) that make this place possible and keep it online for us to visit!

Note for regular visitors: Some of the content of this Diary is for the benefit of our new visitors, not because I’m looking to create a world record (for me) length Diary, covering things you consider/know to be obvious. Remember, there are new folks joining the online community (both young and old) all the time and this may be their first blog-site (see also: words-unseen).

Let us start with the simple notion/concept: A Diary/Comment should be judged on the basis of the merit of the Post itself with NO REGARD for who wrote the Post (NETiquette) - The merit of each individual point made, leaving personalities aside. Then thoughtful, respectful, responses made. Many of the issues we deal with can be “touchy” and can evoke strong emotions, let us please Keep our heads about us and keep our calm as well as our manners! Choose your words carefully when broaching subject matter.

You know, like “Big Tent!” Yep, that is a hot one. Why? Because it is the catch-all. “Big Tent,” in relation to the Republican Party (GOP/RNC), immediately conjures up an image of a major issue. Think of the issue that is of most concern to you — it may not be the same one that comes to mind and boils the blood of another. Make sure your hot-topic isn’t a landmine in disguise waiting to explode upon a fellow guest. And if you’re lucky enough to see the trap? Don’t step on it, walk around it! Bait, don’t nibble - or other such analogy.

Way back and long before the term “blog” was invented, decades ago (insider reference: Punch cards - lol) when it was still mostly dial-up modem (BBS) connections, things moved alot slower literally and figuratively speaking. Subject matter would linger over long periods with discussion covering several days or even weeks, and we’d remind each other to give it a day if you’re upset and then come back and say it if you still feel the same. These days, a Diary may barely last 4-12 hours (especially heavy news days or on/nearing Election dates), with a few lingering a day or two, and beyond that most have become a distant memory only getting rare return commenter or an occasional reference as an “archived” item. With cheap computers and easy Internet access, the shear number of participants has an obvious impact. All parts of the instant-gratification generations, in some sense giving even greater concern that we think before hitting that “Post Comment” button. Remember to use the “Reply To This” button too, but that is slight point meandering.

All the Holier-than-thou (choosing those words carefully to imply a Religious over-tone without touching on the obvious hot-button) and I’m more “Conservative,” more “Republican,” or better whatever, than you stuff is not helpful. When someone strikes that inflammatory tone often people will then just focus in on the flame rather than the message point/content. Flame not, lest ye be flamed!

Are we looking for quick ways to score flame points? Some may consider that fun, while I hope that focusing on RESULTS (success/failure of issue solutions implementation) mattering over just that we “Feel Good” about ourselves (acting like Liberals, Feel Good but solve nothing) in our positions, and just attack (Cannibalize) each other (Reagan’s 11th Commandment politely debating our differences is OK), while never really accomplishing anything. Are we looking for long-term relationships in order to team up to “reach our common goals” or, again, for quick gotcha moments?

Oh oh, I sure hope it doesn’t sound like I’m ranting and raving here. I’m not jumping up and down and yelling at the computer, honest! I have to watch my ALL CAPS (shouting) or run the risk of being yet another bad example of what it is I’m asking us to avoid. (Pardon my Comedic break, though point reiteration, technique to break up serious subject matter, albeit almost always my stale/dry humor.)

A RedState Political Correctness? [gasp]:
If the desire is to act like a Liberal Democrat and rant and rave and Feel Good about ourselves over a movement (pick any Republican Party Platform sub-topic you like and our passionate about)…. then by all means, some may help themselves feel better - but I (and hope others will) look at things from a RESULTS oriented standpoint and the strategies thus far aren’t yielding much lately. Many people may wish to continue to be purposefully and openly adversarial to those in a form of our own RedState Political Correctness to keep others quiet. I prefer having earnest/honest conversations with those of whom we may disagree, rather than Republicans acting like Brainless Liberals immediately having to resort to shout-downs over dialog. (Drats, that could sound inflammatory - please pardon the temporary over-the-top language.)

The Republican Party and/or Conservatism, are not monolithic:
Perhaps RedState needs a Platform of its own, by which the RedState notion of Conservatism could be clearly defined by which to form the basis for discussions or to at least refer back to for comparison of where someone stands in relation to it. The Republican Party (though it does have a GOP Platform) and the Conservative movements are not a oneness of thought/mind whereby you agree 100% or you don’t - there are degrees. We need to talk up are similarities and stop trumping up the differences - if we are going to achieve something/anything as Conservatives/Republicans and part of that is having respectful/considerate and honest discussions.

“Can we all get along?”:
Rodney King, the Cocaine addict (allegedly former), Domestic-abuser (allegedly former), and we don’t have time/space for his entire rap-sheet (and let us hope/pray that he has indeed turned his life around) gave us that pondering! Democrats coddle criminals and like to try to make Heroes and Role-Models out of the scum of the earth (and you’ll see the usual Liberal MSM bias in that King link - no-one attempted to ask how well the victims of his crimes have been able to “move on.”), but that is for other RS Diaries. Before we digress too far, let’s move on to the way he matters here…

The original quote, or as often changed to “Can’t we all just get along,” MLK “I Have A Dream” like or JFK “Ask Not…” worthy, not really but anyway… The point here is that even the worst of humanity (Rodney, IMO) can get something right (if not only accidentally) on an occasion - which goes back to MERIT of a point/post/comment rather than prejudicing ourselves before the fact by looking at, and clouding our processing of the thought of, the person/Userid of who is saying it. A concept/point is good or bad, agreeable or disagreeable, based on its own standing and regardless of whether if the person saying it has ever said or done anything else you feel worthy of note. Remember, that stopped clock is indeed right twice daily!

From time to time the “Hinz Rule” is invoked to remind folks to not feed the Trolls (by letting people that come here just to be bothersome and bait you into off-topic or other fights). Let us call this the “King Rule,” to interject gentle reminders to each other to be “respectful.” I wouldn’t presume to name it (Lenard) after myself after all and a “Detroit” (with burning buildings on Devils Night) image sure won’t work. lol

Trolls/Mobies or someone with a real earnest difference of opinion?:
Trolls/Mobies aside! We are so used to having them here we are often quick to make the assumption (see also: trollanoia reference), or try to portray someone as a Troll/Moby to minimize (or prejudice others opinion of) them, just because they disagree with us on a particular issue. Goes back to the “RedState Platform” (adopting a specific set of Official RS Positions) concept perhaps, but even if that were to be developed we should be able to be respectful with those we have some disagreement with and have a CALM discussion!

Trolls/Mobies get Flamed and people (some just casual observers until they decide to register to be a guest/visitor) learn from those examples and it gets carried into other Diary threads (as acceptable style against everyone). It may just first start as a subconscious harsh tone (sometimes misread as such unintended by the writer), minor name calling (nick-names and kidding aside), then onto out-right Flaming — not good!! I am hoping the “King Rule” will act as a reminder and help return us to calm discussion with those not as Conservative, Republican, RedState loyal, Young, Old, this, that, or whatever, as we.

Keeping things from getting PERSONAL:
This is NOTHING PERSONAL, and that is where the trouble is to some degree. Wait, wait, of course some Government actions have caused very real and adverse things to happen to some making it very personal for them - what I mean is that it is important to remember that it is generally NOT the person at the other end of the current conversation you are having that has caused those things to happen to you, your family, your neighbors, etc… and the WORDS/IDEAS you are sharing are/should-be being discussed in the abstract! People can/have/may die as a result of Policy undertaken by Government or its failure to act, and that is darn near impossible for someone to not take personally!

However, we can try harder not to automatically make it, or take it all, Personal - Acting like Liberals (Act first [knee-jerk reaction], Think later) and solely running on Emotion rather than trying to be objective over issues and the strategy methods in relation to them. Yes, I recognize and was purposefully harsh towards Liberals/Democrats in this paragraph to make a point - in case you missed it I’ll state it out-right: save the harsh words for the real Political adversaries (some other references have been or will be made, part in jest, some I mean — but we might do well to remember the old adage of Kill Them With Kindness at times too)!

Some people hear a topic (pick just about any topic and it is someones top concern they feel ‘passionate’ about), however it is couched, and seemingly LOSE THEIR MINDS (pulling a Glenn Beck, by his own admission) and are incapable of discussion just shout-fests (while Glenn is prone to the shouting, he does still bring in facts/logic to his feud, so it isn’t completely the same - just sayin’ [if you get the reference]) to help them feel good about their position while accomplishing NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO, etc…. The “be respectful or be banned” is a reminder (as I see it anyway) to try to keep people calm so we can have honest and open discussions about the topic and what common-ground we have that we can work toward.

Take your personality-conflict offline if need be. Do not engage in airing your personality conflicts in threads at RedState. Do not drag someone into your grudge, or add a new one, just because someone may agree with someones point (over yours) in a post you have decided to feud with - they are taking sides on the points made not the personalities (or, at least, should not be basing it on who it is saying it — remember: merit). Please keep to the issues being addressed in the thread and on topic as possible - sure, sometimes it may lead to other sub-topics, but DO NOT Threadjack. RedState has a rule to have an Open-Thread available on the Front-Page (FP) on a regular basis where short topic, quick link mentions, and other odds-and-ends belong!

Word choices: It is easy to forget when the word “you” is present that a writer might not have actually meant “You” (personally). It may have been meant as a “generic” address where the term “for those” or “some” or other generic/general reference could/should be used.

ISSUES, Substance while forgiving Style differences:
The issue is about ISSUES rather than writing style. Is this only about How We Feel (good that we feel good about standing our ground by shout-downs and name-calling) or is it, should it be, about effective strategies we are discussing and RESULTS - not what makes us feel good today (that’s for Liberals, that Feel Good crap) - we are (or supposed to be) about creating some solutions that actually help and are effective. We can and should work with others on issues to reach common-ground (but before you take my words too far and thinking something I’m not saying, I am saying that about amongst ourselves Conservatives and/or Republicans and we seem to have trouble agreeing to terms/definitions at times). As far as common-ground across Party-lines BI-PARTISANSHIP goes, that would be another one of those Hot-button things and I am avoiding discussing the specifics on issues and differences in stances, here in this Diary, and leave that for our other Diaries. This is supposed to be about how we interact and discuss those issues.

We are all entitled to having a bad day (or two):
I have said this on several occasions in different discussions. We are all entitled to be in a bad-mood at times and can have a bad-day. The person whose Comment/Diary you are reading at any given moment may have been having a bad-day OR you may be having a bad-day and not recognize it yet! Step back, relax, read posts again, remember that tone/intent may be being misread before you jump-ugly!

The tune “Bad Day” by Fuel is in my head now, as my mind strays yet again. Yes, purposeful interjection of some levity (see also: ribbing/jesting) and is just part of my writing style to provide mental breaks in the action. It is not to be annoying, though I guess I can certainly be that, it is to try and keep the mood light amidst often serious matters.

I am saying some rather obvious things here, but it is helpful to have some occasional reminders and I appreciate your indulgence. Perhaps you know someone that needs a reminder and can leave the link anonymously at their PC. Shhh, I won’t tell. Upward and onward…

TONE MATTERS as to whether someone is going to listen or just ignore you (as they may me to avoid my bad puns) for being constantly confrontational or harsh. Save the nastiness for the out-right Liberal Ultra-Lefty Trolls/Mobies that show up (seems to be some Trollanoia [Troll-paranoia]), but give the benefit of the doubt to newbies (and those that call themselves Moderate, which is a hot-button enough in itself many times) until we know they are what they claim, or a Troll/Moby, for certain.

I know, I know, it is hard to maintain patience when we know darn well that Trolls/Mobies are coming over from the DailyKook and HuffPooPoo. We also know, however, they cannot help themselves and always do expose themselves for the frauds they are eventually. We only better ourselves by keeping discussion civil for those casual readers here in earnest and/or just Hinz Rule them (without it needing to be invoked). The true casual readers/participants (that hasn’t seen the light through the fog of the Liberal lies) will better understand what we are talking about when the Troll/Moby does shoot themself in the foot and the Blam-stick is unleashed.

Those Emoticons (this site converts most of the simple text versions to the images) may seem a bit cheesy, but a smiley face, wink, and/or lol, can make a difference in whether someone gets/understands your mood and/or intent - not always of course, those bad-days thing again. I have been known to put a “WARNING: SARCASM” at the end of some posts, just to be sure, others use a “/SNARK” to indicate the end of a sarcastic post.

Let us RESPECT ourselves by respecting others! I hope going forward that we can talk up are similarities and stop trumping up the differences - if we are going to achieve something - but, again, some don’t really care, they just want to rant/rave as it makes them feel good about themselves (seems to me that makes them more like a Liberal than a Conservative, IMO, but now I’m being repetitious).

Having an emotional attachment to a particular issue is no excuse for failing to approach it intelligently….
Being passionate is no excuse for being stupid.
(Full quote, context, and who said it here)

Gee, you mean I could have said it that simply? That would have been no fun, of course! Speaking of which (I love it when a transition simply writes itself into place)…

Poking fun at another User:
When you are poking fun at another RedState User, especially if the two of you are not close-buds, make sure they know you are “funning.” If you are bad-mouthing someone IN JEST (just some good natured ribbing - see too: levity), remember that even though they may know/understand that - others reading may not! Include some hints for the casual reader so they know what is going on. Friendly fun banter can get taken the wrong way, people pop in and may take a side, and a full Flame-war is on.

Would you Please Just Shut The Bleep Up!?!?:
Yes, yes, yes - I would very much like to say that to some at times! However I do NOT want to, nor do I want fellow Conservatives to, stoop to that level. I live near Detroit and endlessly hear the Liberal line (including MSM outlets) on everything and am TIRED OF IT, and indeed just don’t want to hear/read it anymore many times. Again, I don’t want to go into specific Issues here but I’ll mention Fairness Doctrine to remind you all about how many times do we remind folks that it is the Left that wants to squash speech/debate. Many topics they say the debate is over. WRONG!

We can and should be responding politely and yet be informative to casual observers seeking the truth. They are out there and some will find their way to RedState seeking it. We can say “There are many Diaries here at RedState that already refute your contentions and I am sorry but I do not have the time to cover that ground again. A simple google search within RedState will yield that information and I invite you, and hope you will, look over the many thoughtful Articles that provide some additional Facts, Quotes, Links, etc, (on top of this one and maybe even some from the same author of this Diary) on this topic and/or the things you brought up.” That is still “a dig” perhaps somewhat, but a polite one that provides a response and makes the point of disagreement while informative that we are well aware of their Democrat talking points, how they are wrong, and that those seeking the truth here will find it. Chances are we might even have a link (Election Issues recap [with links]) handy to point them to where they’ve already been refuted.

So, What Really Is The Bottom-Line Concern Here?:
The issue here is NOT how polite we are to the Leftists visiting RedState as we are NEVER going to get them to be or vote Republican when we can get Republicans to be Conservative! The issue is to NOT drive a 70%-er to voting Democrat, politely covering the Issues with them so as to persuade them why they must vote Republican if they really want anything accomplished in regard to that 70% of Issues they agree with Conservatives on. Nor do I want to see people beat a Red-Dog to the point that they turn into a RINO (Red-Dog vs. RINO). Dancing that fine line of building the Party (that Big-Tent Hot-button again) by welcoming the 70%-ers (or not necessarily even building the Party, but building the Election day voting block that votes Republican - reasonable?) while NOT abandoning values/principles (selling out the Party-Platform positions) and pandering but focusing on the 60-80% common-ground.

With this and the other Red-Dog vs. RINO Diary it seems I am becoming the site Tightrope walker of fine-line distinctions.

Let us give the Site Moderators a break from having to Police every post for content and be respectful on our own!!!

Stumbling upon Verbal fisticuffs in a Diary / Troll-jacking:
When we come upon a Fight (literal, or figurative verbal fisticuffs), if someone we know is involved we tend to want to help. Not that our Friend is perfect (has probably been wrong a few times in the past, might even be wrong now, and may have a bad-day and be in the wrong again in the future) but we do not want to see them get beat-up or get in trouble for beating up someone else. Until the “Fight” reasons/details can be sorted out, we will always tend to side with our Friend/Acquaintance (as we know enough about them to want to give them the benefit of the doubt). Neither party should take it personally, because even if the other person involved is completely unknown to us we, as loving/caring people, should not want to see the other person hurt or in trouble either (unless, of course, we are talking about some criminal hoodlum, then we want them hauled off to jail [banned, in our example] - different, of course, but I think all know what I am saying here). That is the genesis of the intent of the “King Rule” idea.

Except for maybe the Ultra-Left offspring, that were never taught manners and/or raised to be caring/concerned human beings (they are only out for themselves), we all know these things. Push comes to shove though at times, and tempers can flare. Happens to almost everyone (certainly can/does to me at times). Gentle reminders is all, gentle reminders. Remember: word-choice and bad-day.

As for a Troll/Moby (or suspected) one looking to stir up trouble - One good dig dismissing them respectfully, really should do it. When we pile on the Diary becomes Troll-jacked (full of verbal-fisticuffs OR Troll diverting attention from the main point by changing the subject or interjection other things that just do not relate in order to minimize the Diary points), and we should not allow them to do that to us. Why clutter up our respectful works and discussions - that crap just clutters them and detracts from the good work, which we know is what they want. They cannot refute the logic which is why they always, ultimately, eventually, trip themselves up and expose themselves. Let them rant and rave until a Moderator comes along with the BLAM-stick. I know we will want to have fun from time to time and unable to refrain, but I think you know what I’m saying.

The “All or Nothing” approach to Debate:
Most of the discussions, no matter how simple the initial premise, start to grow in complexity. As more and more join in the discussions, the Comments often become multi-faceted and dealing with several different points/counter-points. The points are separate. Agreement with a person on one point DOES NOT indicate a complete agreement with them on all points. These are not all or nothing discussions. This kind of goes back to the “carrying Grudges” (offline please) or the “King Rule” (stopped clock right twice a day) to a degree, do not allow your disagreement of one point to prejudice/cloud your determining agreement/disagreement with any other positions/points the person may have. People can be with you in part - agree on some points and not on others.

Agreeing to Disagree, and just walking away (Save the harsh rhetoric for the Democrats - Reagan 11th):
Sometimes you just have to let people Fall… No matter how hard you try to get them to take just that one step, they won’t. Despite the ground crumbling under them, you just have to walk away from the failing ground, and let them fall off the Cliff. Let them be happy they stood (their ground) on their Principle into the Canyon and to their death.

Last, but not least:

Lastly, we need to remember (what I hinted at above) there is alot of Diaries/Comments that many/most RedState Users do not see. There just is not enough time in the day for everyone to see everything and things get posted fast and furiously around here. Some readers/writers know more about other readers/writers at the site. We simply cannot assume others know and/or are aware of some of the things that have transpired around here! If no-one carried grudges it wouldn’t matter, but humans have bad days and get over-emotional at times - in case you hadn’t caught that as part of the point of this Diary! Relax, I was ribbing you on that last comment/sentence.

Closing thoughts:
Thank you for stopping by and reading. (Other diaries here.)
Regards from NoMoTown (Liberals, looking to do for the country what they’ve done to Detroit.)

Now go forth and blog, but keep singing the chorus of R.E.S.P.E.C.T. as a reminder to be respectful, or perhaps you prefer Bruno, and think of all those times your Mother told you to mind your manners.

[October 2009 update - liberal welcome]
Thanks for being here leftylurker (and the few other “reasonable” Liberals)
context: JLenardDetroit Wednesday, October 14th 6:23PM EDT (link)
and Open Letter to other Liberal/Democrat lurkers….

You are indeed one of a few Liberals (I’ll speak for myself only and say) I look forward to reading/engaging here at RedState as you are one of the few that can engage and be respectful while doing so. We won’t agree on many things, but I hold out hope for you still in the long run lol - since you’re open to honest/factual debate/discussion.

You do know, however, there are some (probably much farther left and on the Democrat fringe perhaps) here just to Troll/Moby and be disruptive. They come here with the intent to be banned eventually, because they can than slither back to the DailyKook nest and wear their dismissal/banning as a Badge Of Lefty-loon Honor…. You also know (and I state for the benefit of other casual observers) We generally adhere to the Hinz-Rule (or King-Rule) and ignore them, or just attempt to dismiss troll, but it is sometimes Therapuetic almost for us to have some fun (levity) at their attempts to trolljack a thread before they get the Blam-stick. As I engaged herein this thread. Sometimes we may get a bit carried away, to which I will apologize (again, only for myself) if I have.

Again, there are many aspects of discussion we welcome Left perspectives and attempts to correct what we believe to be misperceptions and/or Democrat mis-leadings in such matters — such as: the “It Takes A Village” concept I’ve addressed in a few (one here: Liberals misuse Religion for Liberal Govt. expansion and/or Dealing with our Frustration with the Politically Brain-dead) Diaries.

Again — MOST OF US WELCOME LIBERALS FOR DISCUSSIONS — shame they can’t all be “polite,” nice, etc… like you!!! An Echo-chamber doesn’t help us to best define our arguments and presentations, but attempting to bother to be a member and engage in disucssion at DailyKooks or HuffPooPoo [yes, light-hearted rib-poking] would be as futile for us. I hope you invite more of your friends that are “reasonable” like you to come by.

See also (RS:Help) for Rules/Regulations.
Even if you’ve read an RS Help file in the past, It may be helpful to refresh your memory, or see what new has been added, and look at all the current and past Help files via that link.

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