Since we last checked in on the Dealergate fiasco, the new media has been busy doing the work old media reporters should have been doing all along. Obama sycophants on the Left end of the blogosphere continued with their “nothing to see here, folks” defense of their beloved savior-president. And Chrysler dealers on the closed list offered evidence in court that most had sales figures and customer satisfaction ratings above the norm for all MOPAR dealers. But could all this just be trees, and could they be obscuring our view of the forest?
Zero Hedge, which had undercounted dealers who made political donations in their first stab at crunching the data, decided a new approach with less chance of misinterpreting the data was needed. Chrysler insists that it had established criteria for closing dealerships based on sales volume, price, customer satisfaction and service department performance. These criteria were incorporated into two Chrysler programs - Project Alpha and Project Genesis - for evaluating its dealers and deciding which ones would be terminated and which were allowed to hold on to their franchises:
“So in the event that retained dealers were not Genesis compliant while cut ones were, this would demonstrate that there was, in fact, more here than meets the eye.”
ZH researcher Marla is working on this right now. What got her interested in pursuing this particular line of inquiry? From the bankruptcy proceedings, the sworn testimony of a dealer in Little Rock, where she has connections:
On May 13, 2009, I received a letter from Chrysler notifying the Dealership that Chrysler had elected to “reject” our Dealer Agreement. I am obviously very familiar with the Little Rock, Arkansas dealer network and was surprised because both Cook and Crain, the only Chrysler dealers in Little Rock, were both rejected. Therefore, Chrysler’s action would, on its face, result in a complete lack of representation in a major American city. Since that would be a ludicrous result, one can only infer that Chrysler has a more sinister motive.
Because it is inconceivable that Chrysler will not have a dealership in Little Rock going forward, the only conclusion that one could draw is that, after review, the evidence in other markets in the region, that Chrysler now intends to “give” the Little Rock market to a Landers-related dealer.
Having reviewed the pattern of assumption and rejection of dealers throughout their region, I have detected a pattern: In every market where there is a dealership connected with former Penske Automotive executive Steve Landers, or his new automotive partnership with “Mac” McLarty (former Chief of Staff for President Clinton) and Robert L. Johnson (majority owner of the Charlotte Bobcats), the competitors are rejected.
In the Little Rock, Landers Chrysler Dodge Jeep is located far out of town in Benton, Arkansas. Nevertheless, the two Little Rock dealers, Cook and Crain were rejected.
In the Fayetteville, Arkansas area, Landers-McLarty Dodge Chrysler Jeep is located far out of town in Bentonville, Arkansas. Competitors Springdale Dodge Chrysler, Steve Smith County Jeep and Jones Brothers were all rejected.
In the Shreveport, Louisiana market, Lee’s Summit Dodge Chrysler Jeep (a Landers McLarty dealership) is located in Bossier City, Louisiana. Both competitive dealers, Claude de Beaux in Vivian, Louisiana and Greater Birmingham Dodge Chrysler in Shreveport were rejected.
In the Springfield, Missouri market, Tri-Lakes Motors (a Landers-McLarty dealership) is located in Branson, Missouri. Competitors Heritage Chrysler Jeep in Ozark, Missouri and Ramsay Motor Company in Harrison, Arkansas were rejected. A pattern seems to be emerging. Everywhere there is a Landers-McLarty dealership, Chrysler has rejected the competition.
In the Huntsville, Alabama market, Landers McLarty Dodge Chrysler Jeep, is located in Huntsville. Competitor Cloverleaf Chrysler Dodge Jeep was rejected.
Favoritism and cronyism towards preferred dealer group is not a valid exercise of business judgment.
Ah, Landers, Mclarty and Johnson — now where have we heard those names before? Joey Smith and Doug Ross had first found and exposed the favorable treatment RLJ’s dealerships had received, and now testimony has been given in a court of law that, as Doug says, “aligns almost precisely with the findings that Joey Smith and I championed.” Interestingly, it was ZH’s decision to include primary owners (such as Landers) and exclude those individuals who were not majority owners (such as McLarty and Johnson) which caused donors to Democrat candidates and causes to be undercounted in their first run through the data.
Another continuing line of investigation into the dealer scandal involves dealerships owned by individuals who are members of minority ethnic groups. Tom Lamb, who blogs at It’s a Kwazy Life, began working on this aspect of Dealergate last month and found that of the minority-owned dealerships in the Chrysler dealer network, Hispanic-owned outlets were closed at a higher rate than were African-American-owned dealerships. As Doug observed, “When dealerships had to be closed, it would appear political correctness trumped merit.”
But what is being obscured by all of this is one basic question, and I still have not heard a satisfactory answer to it. Is it really necessary to have to close all these dealerships? A Bloomberg report indicates that may not be the case:
“There’s the school of thought that if [GM and Chrysler] want to emulate the success of brands like Toyota and Honda they should emulate their dealer structure,” said Jack Nerad, an analyst for car-pricing company Kelley Blue Book in Irvine, California. “That certainly seems to be the view of the automotive task force.”
Nerad was referring to President Barack Obama’s car task force, which steered Chrysler into bankruptcy on April 30 and set a June 1 deadline for GM to finish restructuring outside of court. The panel said it wasn’t involved in the dealer cuts.
[...]
Dumping dealers isn’t part of the cuts in costs and debt at GM and Chrysler. Instead, “underperforming” stores, as GM put it, were targeted to ensure the automakers’ future retail networks will be stronger for when the companies reorganize.
Both GM and Chrysler, as well as Obama’s auto task force, have maintained that the automakers needed to shed dealers because the outlets have been costing the companies too much money. Mark LaNeve, GM’s North American sales chief, whether wittingly or unwittingly shot that excuse full of holes:
“Too many dealers, in actuality, is not the problem,” LaNeve said on a May 15 conference call. “We’ve got too little industry and too little sales we have to contend with.”
Whoa, wait a minute. We’ve heard dealers say that, but this is the first time to my recollection that a member of the corporate management team has admitted it. The man in charge of GM sales in North America says that too many dealers is not the problem, while the government panel directing the dismantling of both companies and the official line being spouted by the companies maintains otherwise. Who has it right here? A car guy or a committee of people who don’t know anything about the auto business and the companies who are subservient to it?
To answer that question, we need to know how much dealers cost the car companies. Watch the video of this report from Chris Cotter of Fox Business, as he relates that closing the dealerships “will do absolutely nothing to affect Chrysler’s bottom line”:
“These dealerships are all self-contained. The buildings they own are leased. The vehicles are essentially owned by Chrysler Financial. They pay on the note. All their marketing expense, parts, service, all contained within the dealer. So there’s a lot of misunderstanding out there of what good that will actually do, and in some cases, many people feel like it will even do harm.”
Yesterday we reported on some of the harm that closing the dealers is causing.
Let’s review. Dealers pay for the franchises, training, special tools and equipment for the shop (the mechanics pay for their own tools), etc. So we see that dealers actually cost Chrysler relatively little money, and closing them will not, as the dealer in the report said, affect the corporate bottom line.
So why close any dealers at all? The answer is that some dealerships have to be closed so that the ones remaining will be more profitable. But if that’s the case, then why, as evidence presented to the bankruptcy court clearly shows, are many very profitable dealerships which fit Chrysler’s own profile for staying open, being closed instead?
So far, Chrysler hasn’t been able to answer that question. When you ask the Obama administration the same question, they refer you back to Chrysler. The anecdotal evidence overwhelmingly says that there is no good answer to the question, which leaves only bad ones.
As a number of bloggers and Chrysler dealers who are having the rug pulled out from under them have maintained all along, the appearance is that politics is playing a major role in determining which MOPAR dealers are being shut down and which ones are being allowed to retain their franchises. The administration’s apologists at HuffPo and other Obama fan sites dismiss this, but they won’t address the facts which have been brought to light by a relatively small but dedicated group of bloggers. We eagerly await the results of Zero Hedge’s test of Chrysler dealerships to determine if the ones being shuttered fit the criteria laid out in the company’s Project Alpha and Project Genesis programs. If they do not, there will be hell to pay.
- JP

Man, oh, man, this is huge.
E Pluribus Unum Friday, June 5th at 5:57PM EDT (link)And you’re right. This gets NO play in the majority media, and not especially alot by right-media and new media.
This is a huge budding scandal, and should (but won’t) result in impeachments, expulsions, and prison. We need to do our very best to push this to the forefront.
Carthago delenda est
Clinton-style self-dealing, writ large.
Vladimir Friday, June 5th at 6:04PM EDT (link)This is a fantastic line of inquiry, demonstrating why the Good Lord invented blogs.
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Hey, Sean Parnell! C'mon down and refute these findings, how 'bout it?
janis Friday, June 5th at 6:15PM EDT (link)Tell us all over again what paranoid little freaks we are and how the statistics don’t support our “assumptions.”
And from now on, please remember: if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it’s a duck. Bank on it.
Happy to jump in
seandparnell Friday, June 5th at 9:09PM EDT (link)For starters, these aren’t statistics - they’re anecdotes, and inferences drawn from those anecdotes.
It’s also worth pointing out that this is different from the original claim, that the Obama administration was using GOP contributor lists to target dealers for closing.
This claim is entirely different - and, from what I’ve seen, plausible and possible, and there’s no reason for me to cast any doubt on it, other than to the extent that I’ll wait for more evidence until making firm conclusions.
To recap: the statistics do not support the claim that they used GOP donor lists to close dealers. The anecdotes recited here are certainly worth looking into, and I would not be terribly surprised if it was true that someone in the administration favored one or even a few Clinton/Dem/Washington Insider dealerships.
Thanks for remembering me, though.
Excellent and logical response
Fred Maidment Friday, June 5th at 9:13PM EDT (link)Even if I disagree.
Statistics are a useful tool, but they don’t explain everything. I’m not counting out the GOP-donor lists just yet…
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
- - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
I largely agree
civil_truth Friday, June 5th at 9:26PM EDT (link)The GOP donor criteria seemed too diffuse to produce statistical significance - as well as being too synthetic of a criteria.
However, if there’s paydirt, I strongly suspect it will come from identifying individuals with political connections to the decision-makers to gain favor and/or individuals who are targets of retribution - especially if combined with an inability to find a statistically significant difference between winners and losers on the basis of the stated Project Alpha and Project Genesis criteria. If the stated criteria prove to be a smokescreen, then the case is much stronger for taking a “where there’s smoke there’s a fire” approach.
It’s still too early to see how strong a case can be made, but I find the current direction far more promising than the donations red herring that was investigated at the beginning.
And Rightly So!
I agree...perhaps the GOP Donor list is a weak proxy for
6eorge Jetson Saturday, June 6th at 3:15AM EDT (link)“not someone with the connections to participate in the payoff game”.
There’s a lot of money on the table in these decisions. I think Blago would have said, “This think is _____ golden!”
When anecdotal evidence builds to large samples we have statistical data, Zing-nt
DONTREADONME Friday, June 5th at 9:33PM EDT (link)“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
No, no we don't
Neil Stevens Friday, June 5th at 9:34PM EDT (link)Anecdotes are self-selected. Data useful for drawing statistical inferences that isn’t.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Correct.
Josh Painter Friday, June 5th at 9:39PM EDT (link)We need empirical evidence. That’s what I’m hoping we will get from Zero Hedge this time.
- JP
“An armed society is a polite society” - Robert A. Heinlein, “Beyond This Horizon” (1942)
I disagree with you Neil...
DONTREADONME Friday, June 5th at 9:39PM EDT (link)most of the time we find a pattern in the data that is specifically anecdotal until we are able to put the numbers together. Without a view of anecdotal evidence which leads to a hypothesis about something you will never take the data to a level of statistical analysis.
“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
Futhermore,
DONTREADONME Friday, June 5th at 9:43PM EDT (link)I think you missed the snark in my comment. A large quantity of anecdotal evidence seeks to be anecdotal evidence and turns into a statitical analysis. One story with another differing story is two diverging anecdotes while thirth anecdotal story’s with the same theme cease to be anecdotal and start to become evidence of something larger. Make sense?
“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
Kowalski, I have to lay off the 151 tonight...
DONTREADONME Friday, June 5th at 9:45PM EDT (link)it should read while having twenty anecdotal stories with the same theme and effect the anecdotal evidence begins to appear as a pattern. Sorry for the word jumble.
“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
If you want to be dispassionate about it,
Flagstaff Friday, June 5th at 9:58PM EDT (link)the first reports of Dealers being closed because of their GOP affiliation were an indicator that there might be more than a simple business plan involved.
As more people have looked further into it, a more definite pattern of evidence is emerging, a pattern that might have been hidden by the first observations. As some of us pointed out days ago, it wasn’t just a matter of “who was closed,” but also, “who is being brought in to replace them.” Now it appears there is a third consideration, “who is left in place to take over their customers.” There are enough dealers that they will form a convincing pattern.
There is a fact that we’re all missing, too. Is there any competition for Amtrak? No. Yet Amtrak loses $450 per passenger.
We might end up with GM-Chrysler destroying Ford with predatory pricing, while they continue to lose thousands of dollars on every car. Government control of any industry consigns it to failure.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
Yeah, how can Ford compete
molybdanthan Friday, June 5th at 10:08PM EDT (link)when they’ve rigged the system to favor GM. They’ll say it’s capitalism at work, but it’s as far from that as we are from Pluto.
Before GM and Chryslobama can "destroy" Ford...
Josh Painter Friday, June 5th at 11:44PM EDT (link)they will need to have the right product. I don’t see the product planners in the White House bringing such product to market. They will bring to market what *they* think people *should* be driving, not what people *want* to drive.
That liberal arrogance will be their downfall.
- JP
“An armed society is a polite society” - Robert A. Heinlein, “Beyond This Horizon” (1942)
true, but Ford will have to produce almost the same product
TNJim Friday, June 5th at 11:56PM EDT (link)GoMo and Chrylobama will be making in order to meet the new cafe and emission standards all auto makers doing business in the US will have to adhere to.
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
What we want to drive won't matter
red4ever Saturday, June 6th at 12:11AM EDT (link)Just like with Amtrak we will have no choice. Ford will be forced out of business by laws prohibiting competition. You can’t get anywhere on a passenger train anymore except by Amtrak because of the prohibition against competition with the government owned train. You will not be able to buy any car but a Chrysler or GM enviro car.
Henry Ford is laughing. “You can have any color you want, as long as it is black.”
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante
I hope we're wrong about this.
Flagstaff Saturday, June 6th at 2:25PM EDT (link)I have personal reasons for wanting Ford to succeed. In fact there are plenty of personal reasons to want GM/Chrysler to succeed as well, there are just some other macroeconomic reasons to believe they will fail to be profitable under the government’s mismanagement. I don’t want their situation to adversely affect Ford or me.
If Lamar Alexander’s plan to distribute the GM stock to 2009 taxpayers succeeds (it won’t), it would bring some hope that we could get the Government out of GM. If not, GM will eventually just become a black hole into which our money flows.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
Which is why Alexander's plan won't succeed
TNJim Saturday, June 6th at 3:12PM EDT (link)1) He’s a Republican and 2) “it would bring some hope that we could get the Government out of GM.”
Obama’s not going to give up control of anything he’s acquired conttrol of so far, no matter how much he says he doesn’t want to run a car company or a bank.
Oh, need to add to 1) above:
… he’s from a state that not only voted against Obama in ‘08 but then voted in a Republican majority in the state house and senate.
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
My suggestion,
Flagstaff Saturday, June 6th at 10:13PM EDT (link)weeks ago, was that the Treasury should trade the GM stock for the Special Bonds being held in the SocSec Trust fund. If GM succeeds, it will make the Fund whole. If not, the fund will be broke in a few years anyway.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
For the record...
evanm Friday, June 5th at 10:20PM EDT (link)“Dealergate” has included more than statistics from the beginning: For example, here’s one of Doug Ross’ first posts on the statistics. But it also discusses several specific markets where successful Republican donors were shut out, and features quotes from skeptical dealers.
I suspect the statistics got more ‘feedback’ from people like Nate Silver because they’re an easier target: people are naturally suspicious of them, and one doesn’t have to attack the credibility of small businessmen to attack the math on dealerships. They also pose a bigger threat to Obama’s racket.
These anecdotes, on the other hand, show a lot of hard-working Americans sticking their necks out for something, as far as I can see, they believe in.
Bingo!
The_Gadfly Saturday, June 6th at 7:05AM EDT (link)These anecdotes, on the other hand, show a lot of hard-working Americans sticking their necks out for something…
The pros and the courts may be looking for statistics to prove something impartially, but that doesn’t connect with most Americans. But when they see somebody they know, who has played by rules, worked hard, has a profitable business, contributes to the community, and especially if they’ve managed to get a reputation for being fair to their customers as well, being shut down for no just cause by The Man, that’s when they get mad and start planning to take it out on The Man. Obama’s playing the feelings game. Anecdotes connect with feelings, statistics connect (sometimes) with the brain. We’ll need the statistics eventually too, but for the moment, we need to hit him square in the empathy gut.
We’ve been called racists enough now that it shouldn’t bother us any more.
-AChance, http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/11/03/what-men-may-do-we-have-done/#comment-24463
If NY23 was a beat down for Conservatives, what do you call what happened to Progressives in NJ and VA?
inspired by ColdWarrior, http://www.redstate.com/hooah_mac/2009/11/04/ny-23-the-agony-of-defeat-not-so-much/#comment-156
It WOULD make more sense
Jeff Weimer Saturday, June 6th at 11:11AM EDT (link)If they were using DEMOCRAT donor lists to help decide.
But it would look little different than the other way around, as it has the exact same effect. It would also be equally as corrupt, if true.
“We stand at once the wonder and admiration of the whole world, and we must enquire what it is that has given us so much prosperity. This cause is that every man can make himself.” - Abraham Lincoln
“Cowardice asks the question, is it expedient? And vanity asks the question, is it popular? But conscience asks the question, is it right?” - Martin Luther King, Jr.
seandparnell, I've decided to use the gamecock gambit here.
janis Saturday, June 6th at 2:42PM EDT (link)No matter what the opposition says, I thank them for agreeing with me and declare the discussion to be over.
So, seandparnell, thanks for playing, thanks for agreeing with me, and the discussion is now closed.
The state run media.....
NeoKong Friday, June 5th at 6:28PM EDT (link)Simply disgusting.
The opinion of a wise whitino male.
State-run is letting them off easy
Neil Stevens Friday, June 5th at 9:36PM EDT (link)They’re not state run. State run would imply that they bow to The Leader involuntarily.
But no.. they choose to be tools of The Leader. That makes them liars, as they claim to be unbiased.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Your right.
NeoKong Friday, June 5th at 10:54PM EDT (link)This will sum it up perfectly.
The opinion of a wise whitino male.
I'm not sure what the right word is, but even 'liars' is too honorable for what they are doing. (nt)
The_Gadfly Saturday, June 6th at 7:07AM EDT (link)We’ve been called racists enough now that it shouldn’t bother us any more.
-AChance, http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/11/03/what-men-may-do-we-have-done/#comment-24463
If NY23 was a beat down for Conservatives, what do you call what happened to Progressives in NJ and VA?
inspired by ColdWarrior, http://www.redstate.com/hooah_mac/2009/11/04/ny-23-the-agony-of-defeat-not-so-much/#comment-156
It's not even the fascistic press yet.
Flagstaff Saturday, June 6th at 2:30PM EDT (link)They’re just fellow travelers and useful idiots.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
The Added Wrinkle Is That Penske Is Now Buying Saturn From GM
IJB Friday, June 5th at 6:30PM EDT (link)When you throw that in there too, it really looks like the whole deal has been put together to work for (or buy off) Landers…
I agree with your assessment + think about this
Elizabeth Christian Friday, June 5th at 6:51PM EDT (link)Obama knows he does not have a clue how to actually put into play his silly ideas - therefore he knows he does not know how to actually get the cars out there that he wants - even when/if the idiot government is able to put together a tincan on wheels it will be like a trillion dollars and nobody would buy it - therefore - get rid of the good dealers because Government Motors will run out of supply as soon as they are under the foolish standards set forth by B.H. Obama!!!
Just a thought - great blog ; )
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
~Benjamin Franklin
The market will still prevail...
Ron Robinson Friday, June 5th at 7:14PM EDT (link)So if they are closing the successful dealers and letting the less successful dealers with lower customer satisfaction ratings continue, only one thing can happen:
Sales will drop. They won’t be able to sell very many cars.
They will have to come back for more handouts or go bankrupt.
Hell of a deal.
________________________________________
Ron Robinson
e-Commerce Exec at 800Cart.com eCommerce who blogs at watchcenter.blogspot.com For over 15 years, his firm has assisted over 10,000 small merchants to quickly and easily ’self serve’ their businesses to e-commerce prosperity.
Re: The market will still prevail...
briann Friday, June 5th at 7:47PM EDT (link)They will have to come back for more handouts, a la Amtrak.
I’m not sure what you mean by “the market”, the companies that are making the best product at the lowest price (Honda, Toyota, hopefully Ford soon) will have to compete against a GM & Chrysler that are immune to the need for profits. GM & Chrysler can lower their price to whatever they need and make up the rest via bailouts. Productive market players cannot survive in *this* market.
-Bri
The emperor's new car
Xasteius Friday, June 5th at 8:06PM EDT (link)The rest should flourish as no one buys the “No-Go” vehicles that are produced by GM and Chrysler.
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
As you say,
Flagstaff Saturday, June 6th at 2:38PM EDT (link)That amounts to subsidizing the sales of Government Motors vehicles at the expense of their competition and of the public at large.
It hasn’t been highly publicized, but Toyota and Honda, etc., have been losing money pretty quickly too. If things play out along the lines speculated on here, Ford and the foreign makes could well move their entire production ex-US. It would be a way to compete worldwide if fair competition within the US becomes impossible. What a sad day that would be.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
There is a method in limited dealerships...
Fred Maidment Friday, June 5th at 8:14PM EDT (link)Mercedes, BMW and others use it to great effect. By being selective and having fewer dealerships, these brands can take more direct control over the activities of those dealerships. That means they can control the look, personality and sales activities of those dealerships. Controlling six hundred dealerships offers many fewer problems than controlling the activities of six thousand.
Problem is, this kind of strategy is generally only useful when offering a premium or niche product. Niche car makers, like Land Rover and Subaru, have fewer dealerships because demand for their product is lower.
GM, Ford and Chrysler, however, serve completely different markets than Subaru and BMW. Toyota has fewer dealerships than GM, but it still has thousands. Same for Honda. Toyota and Honda serve a similar market, and so have large dealer networks compared with luxury (BMW) and niche (Subaru) car makers.
In order to sell millions of cars, GM, Chrysler and Ford need thousands of dealerships. Maybe they don’t need six thousand, but they should not be arbitrarily vacuum-formed into the mold of Toyota. After all, how can I go out and buy a Chrysler if the nearest dealership is further than I want to travel? If a Toyota or Honda (or Ford) dealership is closer, I’m going there, and Chrysler and GM have likely lost-out, unless I am specifically in the market for one particular car.
Sorry, GM and Chrysler just don’t have anything that special…
How to Start a Business - Fred’s News
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
- - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
It's more like "there's madness in the method" I'm afraid
civil_truth Friday, June 5th at 8:26PM EDT (link)…when it comes to GM and Chrysler.
And Rightly So!
Quite so
Fred Maidment Friday, June 5th at 8:40PM EDT (link)And I think I made that point.
My point is, it works for some, but not everybody.
Dell could never be Apple, for example. Natural Light will never be Samuel Adams and Coke can’t be IBC. The large volume brands aren’t built to be like their niche-brand counterparts that way, and they serve an important purpose operating in the market as they do.
Limiting the size of the distribution channel doesn’t make much sense to me. Not in this case, anyway.
How to Start a Business - Fred’s News
Follow Me on Twitter
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
- - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
Apocalypse Now
molybdanthan Friday, June 5th at 8:49PM EDT (link)Colonel Kurtz: “Are my methods unsound?”
Captain Willard: “I don’t see any method at all, sir.”
555 nt
itrytobenice Friday, June 5th at 10:18PM EDT (link)The problem with America is stupidity. I’m not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don’t we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
BTW, all of you are allowed to make hypotheses with...
DONTREADONME Friday, June 5th at 9:52PM EDT (link)anecdotal evidence. When you use the data to prove your hypothesis then it can become fact; therefore, there should be no reason to stop you from making a hypothesis. That goes for you too, Josh.
“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
Dump Obama’s auto task force and and all
bobojake Friday, June 5th at 10:35PM EDT (link)obamas’ other foney CZARS
It happened before, to Tesla
molybdanthan Friday, June 5th at 10:44PM EDT (link)Nikola Tesla, father the AC motor, RF signals for radio, neon bulbs, and of so many other things we still use today.
He went against the good ol’ boy network of his day, fought the good fight, and died alone; disparaged, penniless and broken. His enemies were subsidized, and grew into the megalithic GE, supported by the USdotGov. The very same company that is now trying to sell us a greener tomorrow, because change ain’t cheap.
We’re still subsidizing the robber barons. And they’re still working daily to prevent the next Nikola Tesla from showing up and fouling up their schemes.
Edison's DC vs. Tesla's AC...
DONTREADONME Friday, June 5th at 10:49PM EDT (link)I wonder who won that argument. In the world of physics there is a unit called the Tesla, funny I do not recall a unit of the Edison or the GE. Looks like the Gov was on the wrong side of that science as well.
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Well, duh...
Fred Maidment Friday, June 5th at 10:52PM EDT (link)…see current policy re:
Global WarmingI meanClimate ChangeI mean Climate Variability.How to Start a Business - Fred’s News
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
- - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
And now GE owns NBC and PMSNBC.
Josh Painter Friday, June 5th at 11:37PM EDT (link)It’s not Ronald Reagan’s GE anymore…
- JP
“An armed society is a polite society” - Robert A. Heinlein, “Beyond This Horizon” (1942)
This may be off topic
molybdanthan Saturday, June 6th at 12:25AM EDT (link)but I enjoy carrying the discussion to its natural conclusion.
Yes, he was with GE. But I don’t think that it was ever Reagan’s GE. Not like Rockefeller’s Standard Oil, or Lee Iaccoca’s Chrysler, or even Thomas Edison’s GE. Since it’s inception, I’m sure much good has come from the company. Possibly in Regan’s time. Just not in Tesla’s day, or currently. And I don’t expect any good to come of it soon.
I love Reagan. Almost enough to use heart-shaped emoticons. I grew up and got into politics during the Reagan years. Support Reaganomics, and wish the country had kept at it. I’m waiting for his successor to emerge and put us right again. And I credit him with dealing a mortal blow to Soviet Communism. So I’m not of the Brzezinski School, no doubt fashionable in the West Wing, where his disciples again hold sway.
Getting all that on record, GE does indeed own some of television. They had an hour, in Regan’s day, now they own 24-hour news outlets. And one you mentioned above is the worst of the lot of them. Worse than CNN. Worse even than CNN International.
And since I mentioned Brzezinski, did you know this:
In addition to the man being the mentor of Obama’s entire economics team, his daughter is a television news journalist and a regular anchor on MSNBC. Brzezinski’s son was employed by the John McCain presidential campaign (I know, big surprise). His other son worked for Clinton at the NSC. That from the wiki.
Still wondering
Fred Maidment Saturday, June 6th at 7:18AM EDT (link)Closing all these dealerships is supposed to help GM and Chrysler sell their cars more profitably.
However, those dealerships are small (and a few large) businesses. They don’t want to go out of existence. What to do…?
While I agree that Ford, Toyota and Honda will all be providing us cars we want, while GM and Chrysler make the cars the White House likes, there’s another wrinkle: Most car companies in the world don’t sell in the US.
In fact, Hummer is to be sold to one of the larger Chinese automakers. Tata Motors developed the Nano, a car that costs only about $ 2,500. Even if it’s not street legal here, they sell other vehicles. There European car companies that are not selling here. Doesn’t Indonesia have one, too? I’ll have to look that up at some point…
My point is, just because GM and Chrysler end their relationship with these dealerships doesn’t mean they simply go away. These are going concerns, and they wish to remain going concerns.
Heck, forget Tata and the others. How about Subaru, Suzuki and Daewoo, which are already selling in the US but have very limited market share? This is a huge opportunity for them!
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
- - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
Greed can be such a stupid
sloeride Saturday, June 6th at 8:16AM EDT (link)And that is the difference. Self-interest is smart.
But going around trying to smash all other tall buildings so yours will become the tallest, well then dumbass, when you are done, guess what? You live in a dump.
Also, the dealers shut down…they are not as hysterical as you would expect someone who just had the goose that laid the golden eggs stolen from them. They all seem to have a stoicism to them.
And perhaps they are other wordly. Or perhaps that for all their effort they poured into their businesss, the profits were never really all that spectacular.
Their finances not all that blown, (after all they were profitable), they can now invest in a better opportunity.
Expect to see more Suzuki, Kia, Dihastus around the corner from where ever you live.
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On closing dealerships
Jeff Weimer Saturday, June 6th at 11:27AM EDT (link)It would, and has had, cost the big three significantly in terms of sales and money to have too many dealerships. One of the classic complaints, other than bad product, is the dealer and service experience of the customer. How many times have you heard a friend say they would no longer buy X because they were treated poorly at their dealer? The consumer makes no fundamental difference between the corporation and their franchisee. That’s why Saturn for so long had enviable brand loyalty despite mediocre product - it was how they were treated as a customer, and the car was decent enough. It still didn’t save them - they began to have horribly bad product and that ruined the brand no matter how well they treated the customer.
It is true that on a day-to-day basis, dealerships cost very little to the company. It’s also be true that those poor dealerships would close of their own accord due to lack of revenue. However, state franchise laws make it nearly impossible to revoke a franchise once awarded, so Chrysler couldn’t de-list these dealerships that were causing harm to their reputation until they disappeared of their won accord. Meanwhile, they were still doing damage to their brand reputation and ultimately the bottom line. So closing BAD dealerships is a good thing for the company. However, it appears we’re not doing that and other “considerations” are more important.
Same with GM.
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'cept that doesn't explain all the 5 star and profitable
eburke Saturday, June 6th at 1:46PM EDT (link)dealerships which were also closed.
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