Why would the GOP, traditional Conservatives and sane people in general feel they must support Ron Paul vs. Obama??? Consider….
Ron Paul recently stated he would not support the GOP nominee if they did not agree with everything he believes. By that he means an extreme George McGovern Foreign Policy, devoid of facts, reason and logic….this means everyone, outside maybe Huntsman will not get RP’s endorsement.
In 2008, Ron Paul refused to support McCain/Palin and on Sept. 10, 2008 he came out and supported the 3rd Party candidacies of Marxist-Anti-Semite Cynthia McKinney, Green Ralph Nader, Libertarian Bob Barr and crank Chuck Baldwin. Instead of the GOP and McCain/Palin vs. Obama(who was much closer to Paul’s FP as a candidate).
Read it here: http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-09-10/paul-baldwin-mccinney-nader-we-agree/
In 2010 and this year, the GOP House Caucus has had a Moritorum on PORK spending. Ron Paul ignored GOP Leadership and loaded up on Earmarks. He was 1 of only 4 House GOP
to request Earmarks. Read more here:
I point this out, as we hear Paul supporters claim we have to support Paul in the laughable scenario of him winning GOP nomination. Why exactly, in this alternate universe, would we support someone who does not support
Burkean Conservatism, and the Republican party? Perhaps we could under this scenario, return the favor? We can call it Ron Paul Blowback
The simple fact, and anyone with a Political IQ above Zero knows this, is under this scenario Ron Paul would be destroyed as a Candidate by the MSM, Obama and Conservatives in a quick manner. All Obama would have to do is come out and read from the Ron Paul Newsletters and run some of his many insane views. A wedge with Evangelicals could easily be played
by his writings on Social Issues if Foreign Policy isn’t enough, there is no way an honest Christian would support Ron Paul once they become fully familiar with his actual positions, record and writings here. Many will find him worse than Obama.
What would happen, quickly, is the GOP would be destroyed and the DNC greatly stregthened. A viable 3rd party candidate would emerge in what would become the new GOP and the sane would flock to it. Paul would lose a 50 state landslide and Obama would win a 2nd term and be able to claim a massive Mandate for his policies(Socialism) and point to the destruction of the GOP and the lunancy of Ron Paul. The MSM would have a field day and full blown Socialism ensues.
Jeff Emanuel
Neil Stevens
But If you're lucky
tooncesthecat (Diary) Thursday, November 17th at 3:47PM EDT (link)you’ll be taken up in the Rapture before Election Day.
“Obama’s Last Day” @ www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com
As soon as I read the name of the author..
sticktotheconstitution Friday, November 18th at 3:59AM EDT (link)..I stopped reading this thread.
ron paul is a senile, egomaniacal anti semite with no real political support
mikeymike143 (Diary) Wednesday, November 23rd at 2:17AM EDT (link)outside of left wing anti war activists and conspiracy loons. which to be honest is about 5% of the republican primary voters.
and the 2008 republican presidential primary proved that. in 2007, nutjob paul won a bunch of straw and online polls and his followers were gleefully pointing to the poll results like this loon was actually going to win. then the actual primary voting took place and ron paul only ended up with 5% of the vote. in other words, 19 OUT OF 20 REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS WISELY REJECTED PAUL AS A CANDIDATE FOR POTUS!!!!
in fact, lets look at ron paul’s record of success when running for president(although in his case i would say his record of failure is a better term to use).
ron ”the loser” paul ran for president in 1988. and out of the 50 states that were available to win, he won zero. 0-50
then paul ran in 2008 and again got shut out. winning zero states out of 50. so paul has already been rejected twice by every single state in the nation. 0-100
ow nutjob paul is running again in 2012. i am going to make my written prediction now. ron ”the failure” paul does not win a single state in the republican primary. meaning every single state in the nation, including his home state of texas, will have voted against him as a candidate for president three times. 0-150
and yes this will once again be a DIRECT REJECTION of paul, his followers, and his agenda!!!!!!
I am the Media Director for Tea Party Fort Lauderdale, America’s Longest Running Tea Party.
http://www.teapartyfortlauderdale.com/
Please click on our TPFL facebook page and ”like” us. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Tea-Party-Fort-Lauderdale/187610141278242
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Kinghenry, why worry about this?
expanding_man Thursday, November 17th at 4:42PM EDT (link)Why would you spend the time to write this attack piece against a candidate that you think has no chance at winning the nomination? You don’t see a lot of folks around here writing hit pieces aganst Huntsman, Santorum , etc. these days. I think if you were feeling more “balanced” today you would realize that it’s not healthy to have so much hate for a candidate that you think is irrelevant. Reading your writing about alternate universe scenarios as a vehicle to express your hate and how the object of that hate would be politically destroyed (in detail) leaves me with questions as to what’s going on with you.
I’d recommend writing more in support of the candidate that you like. It’s more positive, more productive and you’ll feel better about yourself if you do.
Feel better.
Nice ad hominem
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, November 17th at 6:36PM EDT (link)You can’t refute the truth about Ron Paul’s dishonest ways, so you attack the messenger.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Have you seen the polling lately?
Paula (Diary) Thursday, November 17th at 11:20PM EDT (link)A lot of apparently clueless people have been hearing what they want to hear about Ron Paul and thinking he’s their Dream Date.
Paula
My blog: Bold Colors
Follow me on Twitter: pbolyard
Sometimes you just have to get the word out....
nathanalbright (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 4:06AM EDT (link)And then the article get rec’d again :B.
Sadly, few of those read anything here
wennejunk (Diary) Sunday, November 20th at 5:06PM EDT (link)The mass public that gets all hot n bothered over Paul – few of them spend time here.
Unfortunately, for the brighter ones, they will likely remain in the dark and cast their vote for insanity – never really aware of what and who they would vote for.
There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ -C. S. Lewis
this great article deserves to go viral
mikeymike143 (Diary) Thursday, November 17th at 10:56PM EDT (link)and it will. i will recommend it on my political sites on facebook.
I am the Media Director for Tea Party Fort Lauderdale, America’s Longest Running Tea Party.
http://www.teapartyfortlauderdale.com/
Please click on our TPFL facebook page and ”like” us. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Tea-Party-Fort-Lauderdale/187610141278242
I also own the second largest anti Ron Paul page for conservatives on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/If-you-love-the-Tea-Party-but-think-Ron-Paul-is-a-nut-please-friend-me/118960598172931
Do you know I would probably melt computer...
conservativecurmudgeon (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 12:16AM EDT (link)if I could “recommend” this as many times as it deserves?
Ron Paul and His Raiders are a dangerous phenomenon in the GOP, and we’d better start getting really intelligent about how we diffuse this danger.
Even though Paul has made allusion to his not running 3rd party, I believe this man’s massive, massive ego may insist that he run. His teeth are getting long, and he may feel Father Time pulling at his elbow, too, which will also make for bad theater.
ron paul is a card carrying member of both the ''blame america'' brigade and the ''conspiracy wacko'' cult.
mikeymike143 (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 10:04AM EDT (link)fortunately he isnt going to go over single digits when it comes to actual voter support. nobody with any sense is voting for that aging anti semite
I am the Media Director for Tea Party Fort Lauderdale, America’s Longest Running Tea Party.
http://www.teapartyfortlauderdale.com/
Please click on our TPFL facebook page and ”like” us. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Tea-Party-Fort-Lauderdale/187610141278242
I also own the second largest anti Ron Paul page for conservatives on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/If-you-love-the-Tea-Party-but-think-Ron-Paul-is-a-nut-please-friend-me/118960598172931
Did you say conspiracy theory?
acat (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 10:44AM EDT (link)Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
Blame America
devereaux Friday, November 18th at 12:14PM EDT (link)When did Ron Paul blame America?? What he does say is that we suffered blowback on 9/11. Well that’s what our CIA says too. So does Iraq war architect Paul Wolfowitz.
One of Ron Paul’s informal foreign policy advisors Michael Scheuer who ran the CIAs Osama bin Laden unit and is now a Professor at Georgetown says we were attacked on 9/11 because of our policies in the Middle East.
The late Chalmers Johnson CIA wrote a book “Blowback”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson
Once again, a lovely appeal to authority.
acat (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 12:32PM EDT (link)Of course, since said “authorities” share Ron Paul’s non-belief in the strong horse theory, I find no reason to put any more stock in their viewpoints than in Ron Paul’s.
I note that the press has stopped – completely – mentioning anything about attempted attacks on the U.S. since Obama took office, so there’s not a good way to determine whether his apology tour – something Ron Paul seems prepared to continue – has made us more or less safe…. but I know which way I’d bet.
I bring this up because under President Paul, the press would certainly make the case that we are less safe regardless of what he does…. so you’d better be sure his approach is the correct one.
Mew
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Caveat Suffragator
Hilarious
devereaux Friday, November 18th at 12:39PM EDT (link)I’m not appealing to authority. Just pointing out what our CIA says about the reason we were attacked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4
Umm, devereaux? You totally did.
acat (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 3:02PM EDT (link)See, what you tried to do was to substitute the authority – as in “recognized expertise”, “authority on this subject” of the CIA (and others) for your own.
As the CIA is equally wrong here – there’s a bad case of Pournelle’s Iron Law in our intelligence agencies – your appeal to authority fails.
Don’t lie about it. Grow up, admit you {pocked} up, and find a new argument.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
ZZZZZZZZZZZ
devereaux Friday, November 18th at 4:39PM EDT (link)LOL
What a wit you have, devereaux.
acat (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 6:45PM EDT (link)Sharp as a stick of butter, flexible as a fine steel blade.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
Strictly speaking, an appeal to authority
aesthete (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 5:26PM EDT (link)is when you use mere support from some authority for X as a substitute for arguing that X is a good or bad thing in and of itself. In this case the pro and contra views are “Ron Paul blames America”/”Ron Paul doesn’t blame America”. The “pro” side in this instance (mikeymike) offered no evidence for the claim; the contra offered as evidence that one common critique leveled against Paul (“is anti-American because he believes in blowback”) is erroneous, and offered as evidence that the CIA also believes this to be true. Neither claim was particularly well-argued, IMO, but neither claim utilized appeal to authority (though both utilized non-sequitur).
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
I was attempting to give the benefit of the doubt...
acat (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 6:49PM EDT (link)as devereaux had been trying to say that the CIA supported Ron Paul’s decision to blame America, else why bring it up?
You are correct, it was not a true appeal-to-authority. Unfortunately, this neither makes devereaux nor Ron Paul right; worse, it paints the former in a new negative light.
I do appreciate the corrections.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
Really
devereaux Friday, November 18th at 7:11PM EDT (link)It does nothing of the sort. The idea that the United States can bomb nations and yes kill lots of very bad people, but also kill lots of innocent people and never experience any blowback is absurd. We are radicalizing an entire generation of young Arabs.
Ronald Reagan understood it. He said this in his memoirs
” Perhaps we didn’t appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the marines’ safety that it should have.
In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believe the last thing that we should do was turn tail and leave. Yet the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there. If there would be some rethinking of policy before our men die, we would be a lot better off. If that policy had changed towards more of a neutral position and neutrality, those 241 marines would be alive today.”
There's a qualitative difference
aesthete (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 8:31PM EDT (link)between appreciating the ramifications — good and bad — of given foreign policy, and assigning moral culpability and the worst of intentions to our country as a reflex. I doubt that Ron Paul hates America; most people who live in this country, whether liberal or conservative, do not hate America or want to destroy it. There is, however, ample evidence that Paul is reflexively opposed to US foreign policy to the extent that it makes him say things about the country which would be slanderous if said about a person. Being and non-interventionist does not mean that one need to equivocate between two things which are not alike, or to say untruths about our country. Ron Paul does both. From his op-ed column on antiwar.com:
“As an opponent of all violence, I am appalled by the practice of lobbing homemade rockets into Israel from Gaza.[..] [b]ut I am also appalled by the long-standing Israeli blockade of Gaza – a cruel act of war – and the tremendous loss of life that has resulted from the latest Israeli attack that started last month. There are now an estimated 700 dead Palestinians, most of whom are civilians. Many innocent children are among the dead. While the shooting of rockets into Israel is inexcusable, the violent actions of some people in Gaza does not justify killing Palestinians on this scale.”
Despite condemning both sides, Paul – through omission as well as by writing an article mostly condemning Israel – seems to be characterizing Israel’s actions in Gaza as rooted in the same basic impulse as those of Gazans launching rockets, when this is not the case at all. This is a tendency with Paul, and has nothing to do with being philosophically isolationist: one can be isolationist while acknowledging a qualitative moral difference between Israel and Palestine.
Lastly, Paul engages in blithe hand-waving and rhetoric to a discouraging extent. Let me use two examples from antiwar.com:
“Other countries have their problems, to be sure. But how would we feel if China or Russia came to our soil and tried to depose our problematic leaders or correct our policies for us? Our problems are ours to solve, and we need to give other countries that respect as well.”
While I’m no fan of moralistic or humanitarian approaches to foreign policies, this is, to be frank, bullshit. Most of our problems, and the problems in first world nations, are self-caused and minor; self-caused because we’re stupid enough to vote in support of them, and minor because we have a legacy of freedom and a guarantee of same (albeit in more truncated forms, in some respects), as well as the resultant prosperity. For us, solving our own problems is a matter of making minor lifestyle adjustments. In third-world countries run by dictators and tyrants, such a blase treatment is cruel: what the hill is the average North Korean supposed to do to “solve his own problems”, and why, from a moral standpoint, should we “respect” the “right” of Kim Sung Il to “solve” his country’s problems? Another example of this rhetorical device used to brush away the implications of his worldview:
“We went into Korea by direction of the United Nations, not a congressional declaration of war, to unify Korea. And yet that war ensured that Korea remains divided to this day; our troops are still there. South Korea today is much more willing to reconcile differences with North Korea, and yet we obstruct such efforts.[..] We went into Vietnam and involved ourselves unnecessarily in a civil war to bring peace and harmony to that country.[..] Ironically, since losing in Vietnam we now have a better relationship with them than ever. We now trade, invest, travel, and communicate with a unified, western-leaning country that is catching on rather quickly to capitalist ways.”
All of the above is true, but it ignores and brushes away basic facts which, when added to the story, make Paul’s case for non-interventionism quite dishonest and horrific. We went into S Korea to make sure that the Peninsula was not overrun by the communist state in the north, which was backed by the USSR and China. We failed to unite the peninsula, but we did preserve half of it. Now, Paul suggests that there is nothing that should worry us about acquiescence to a Stalinist, totalitarian client state and its protective neighbor, China. This is nonsense: if he wants to argue that this is better than the alternative, he’s free to do so, but making the argument for non-interventionism in this way ticks off conservatives for good reason. Secondly, Vietnam is *not* a Western state, nor was our departure good for the region: as soon as we left, Cambodia became a killing field, and the S Vietnamese were killed and persecuted by the N Vietnamese to the point of causing an international crisis. Again, you can argue that these effects were better than staying, but you can’t reasonably argue that everything was and is hunky dory after we left.
That’s the thing about Paul: he refuses to acknowledge the good that resulted from intervention, pretends that our intervention has only resulted in bad things, and acts as if our occupations and those of other nations are conducted in the same manner. One of the Iraqi dissidents who misled the Bush administration was interviewed recently. When asked about why he lied, he responded that it was so that the US would depose Saddam, occupy Iraq and make it into a democracy. Can you imagine anyone saying that about China or Russia? According to Paul, though, this type of person and phenomena doesn’t exist, and the only foreigners are those who are justifiably angry about American interference.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
You're right, it wasn't appeal to authority.
jakeofalltrades (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 5:37PM EDT (link)It was non-sequitur. It does not follow from the CIA saying that 9/11 was blowback, that Ron Paul is not blaming America with his identical statement.
kowalski
jakeofalltrades (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 5:40PM EDT (link)Which means it was actually a failed attempt to appeal to authority. Which somehow doesn’t make it more intelligent, despite the double negative.
why is your guy running on the GOP side then, only to take away time from other serious candidates?
sunshinek67 (Diary) Sunday, November 20th at 6:45PM EDT (link)What a self-absorbed egoist, getting the anti-war vote no doubt. I think Ron Paul has been adversely affected by the Houston gulf coast air for far too long, you know salt walter speeds up the rust process, especially for the weak of minds~
(aargh.. let's try that again) Did you say conspiracy theory?
acat (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 10:48AM EDT (link)Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
good one acat
mikeymike143 (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 10:53AM EDT (link)LOL
I am the Media Director for Tea Party Fort Lauderdale, America’s Longest Running Tea Party.
http://www.teapartyfortlauderdale.com/
Please click on our TPFL facebook page and ”like” us. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Tea-Party-Fort-Lauderdale/187610141278242
I also own the second largest anti Ron Paul page for conservatives on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/If-you-love-the-Tea-Party-but-think-Ron-Paul-is-a-nut-please-friend-me/118960598172931
That is ridiculously funny.
jakeofalltrades (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 8:38PM EDT (link)n/conspiracy-sheep
No one's second choice...
naraht Friday, November 18th at 12:26PM EDT (link)The issue with Ron Paul is that he really isn’t anyone’s second choice. Ron Paul does have a theoretical chance to Win Iowa if there are 4 or 5 candidates on the high side of 15%, since 18 or 19% is within the realm of possibility. With Ron Paul’s focused support, he does better than Caucuses than Primaries. *But* even for most of the people on RedState, if the only people left in the race are Romney and Paul, the are likely to support Romney (not that he’s necessarily a Cain Supporter’s second choice, but he’s still more likely to get that support than Ron Paul will.)
Very Sobering Stuff
devereaux Friday, November 18th at 5:29PM EDT (link)On America’s horizon — A far larger war with the Muslim world
http://tinyurl.com/7ak6buc
Ron Paul and the election
greyeagle Friday, November 18th at 10:16PM EDT (link)I read today that Ron Paul will not rule out now running a third party challenge for President if he doesn’t get the GOP nomination. Hummm that would ensure 4 more years of Obama.
But of course Ron Paul says that, greyeagle. That is
pttx333 (Diary) Friday, November 18th at 10:31PM EDT (link)the way the man operates. He will do anything to insert his final fit/temper tantrum into the election and screw up everyone else. He is one selfish, self-absorbed, vile individual – and his followers will go straight down with him! BAH!
Ron Paul only has
donald_24 Sunday, November 20th at 6:33PM EDT (link)strong poll numbers in Iowa. I have not seen him above the low single digits in any other state. If Iowa Republicans choose Paul in the caucus, then they will make themselves irrelevant and you will see GOP Presidential candidates avoid the state the next time around. I know that if I was a Chris Christie or a John Thune running in 2016 or 2020, why would I want to spend my time and money in Iowa when they are just going to choose some fringe candidate?