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Talking about anything on Redstate is Useless

By: kowalski (Diary)  |  January 17th, 2013 at 11:12 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

As of tonight, I’ve come to the conclusion that talking about any serious subject on Redstate is almost completely useless. The blog should completely close down all the comments and user diaries, and should disallow comments entirely except if allowed by the person who creates the post.

It should be a straight-up right-wing opinion journal with no apologies. No more BS, very much like the Weekly Standard.

All the current format serves to do is provide an advance notice of what people on “our side” of the fence are thinking, but what’s even worse is that it’s a troll generator of enormous proportions. The content here has gone from being Republican/Conservative eclectic to Conservative Intelligent to Desparate Conservative Half Donk Op Research + Half Stupid Most of the Time.

It’s not really a conversation anymore: it’s the trolls and the democrat op-researchers posting as regular users versus the front page writers, while the rest of us play clean-up duty and basically rebut them here on our own blog. It’s stupid, folks. It’s too big to be managed in the way you’re trying to do it, and I think actually it is doing more harm than good. I’ve thought this for a long time. Now is the time to do it.

I really want to ask Redstate and Human Events to stop what they’re doing and change the way they’re doing it. Either come in with the Spiked Pipe and make it a serious place for people to comment and cut the crap, or get out of the game. If you want the blog to be read, make it exclusive, start charging money, and make it a community of people who aren’t just here to waste the rest of everyone’s time.

I’ll send $50 tomorrow to Erick Erickson to make sure I have a subscription and the ability to comment. I’ll sell my pet cat to do it. I’m not interested in Redstate being an open forum any longer. You want to contribute? Pay up – right now.

Enough. The new users popping out of the infinte elsewhere and posting as diarists wasting all our time have to stop.

The moron quotient has to be reduced and I think it’s going to require Redstate to have some courage and do what they’ve known they would have to do for all this time. Better to start now than continue along with the morons and the malefactors.

I don’t know what else to tell you. This place is a shell of its former self and it’s not getting better or more intelligent, it’s getting stupider and more troll-infested. Raise the bar or quit. If you won’t do that, at least bring Thomas Crown and Bob Hahn back on a regular basis and have them clean the place up.

COMMENTS

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  • checkmate2012

    kowalski, I agree with some of your sentiments, especially that the goal of so many newcomers want to be agitators and not adding constuctive ideas. I mostly hate the new format where it’s hard to discuss and follow comments. The discussion button sort of new, oldest, best, doesn’t work. I see a comment in the box on the right and it’s not in the post yet and if it is from a ten minutes ago, it’s buried on someone else’s comment from 10 hours ago and you have to scroll forever to find and comment to an active conversation.
    .
    Lastly, it saddens me that so many diaries are written that they disappear so quickly without much thoughtful discussion that so many deserve. I’m glad to see new diaries but many are gone before a few or no comments since more pop up constantly and the rules have been laxed to allow a diary of just a few sentences. I know I don’t have a say, but if I did, perhaps competing/similar diaries on the same topic could be posted as a block for comparison sakes, to allow for topics to be discussed more thoroughly. I’m still greatful for RS but it has changed alot with the new format.

    • kowalski

      I think the blog would be much better off if it was much more strictly limited in terms of commentary. It’s ridiculous to have to read through the garbage that gets posted here so much of the time, particularly in the comments. It’s not worth my time! It’s a waste of time! I’d rather this place be a purely subscription based service with 10 or 20 people writing articles and maybe 100 commenting than have it be the free for all that it is.

    • Bill S

      The missing diary recommendation system is the single biggest missing piece. I will again try to tweak the technical people to see if they ever plan to do anything about it.

  • PowerToThePeople

    I just can not join your rainy parade. While I do not like the Disqus system, do not like the influx of idiots, trolls, leftist, etc, I seem to remember the same problems on the old Redstate. We used to make jokes about how much work Bill, Neil, Moe, and Streiff had to do just on bans taking away from them actually posting. Just before the site changed, there was a day that there had to be 10 or so bans just for trolling or being a leftist.

    Most of us come here for the ability to write diaries, not me anymore since I can not formulate that much thought, and for the interaction we have with folks. I would love for it to be free of the nonsense and for people like you, I wish it was set in a way where your diaries do not get kicked off so quick by some sorry diaries, but it is what it is.

    I personally have no problem with paying a membership, brought that up before. But the reality is most will not and once the site starts bleeding unique hits, they lose ad revenue and the site will close.

    What I believe needs to be done, if I remember correctly, is to allow the mods to go back to being able to ban without conference. If the person even looks like a problem, ban em. I would also suggest that they set up some more trusted folks that are willing to patrol the site, ban or suspend troublemakers who then have the final decision on their account made by a mod, giving the site more round the clock coverage where the mods are not so taxed plus bums have less chance at slipping through the crack because their comments have been shoved so far down. I know we can report them, but lets be real, I am sure the mods are overwhelmed, the email account probably gets hundreds of emails a day, and it must be impossible for every email to be read much less followed up on.

    I would also suggest that no one be able to publish diaries until approved and that they are only approved to publish their own diaries after writing multiple approved diaries. Few trolls are going to take the time to write 5 or 6 diaries over an extended period of time just to be able to write one piece of nonsense and then be banned.

    • kowalski

      Those are some good suggestions and I’d still want a subscription plan. I really believe that if you want to write something here, you should either be working for the blog or paying to contribute, but it has to stop being a zero marginal cost affair. Stop giving things away.

      You want to comment in some “class free” space like the intrinsic Commie you are? Go over to Democratic Underground, or take up residence in the comments section of the Washington Post, or open a Facebook account.

      I’m an elitist: I’m not interested in listening to stupid people’s opinions just because they’re stupid and I feel some egalitarian pull to listen to them. If I wanted to do that, I’d be watching freakin’ Jenna Marbles all day long.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5dU1KDpRAM

      It might be at the end of this that I have to become Jenna Marbles. She’s hot as *********.

      Redstate needs to adapt. It’s not the blog world it was back in 2006. This is a publication and if it wants to survive it has to reduce the noise part of the signal/noise ratio.

      • checkmate2012

        I have to laugh at your comment, “I’m an elitist” as I consider myself to be quite the opposite and find RS commentors that are moderate as an opportunity for us to sway them towards conservatism. It’s our chance, if they have a real desire to be here to learn, and not agitate for the Left as many do. I’ve seen some eyes open here and it’s great to see when they are challanged and realize they were brain washed. Stupid opinions are subjective and many test the limit of the goal of this site and should be banned; but others that are on the fence can be postive contributors to keep us on our feet and help them learn.

      • gawken

        It’s incumbent upon you to explain how you even know who/what Jenna Marbles is. I clicked on the link only because you had posted it in your comment. Oopsie..

        Seriously, if there is a way that an ABUSE button could be added next to each comment, that could help the troll patrol

        • rbdwiggins

          There is an abuse button. Mouse over the comment. A bar and a down arrow will appear at the top right of the comment. Click the down arrow, and then click ‘flag as inappropriate’ when it appears. Although, I’m not sure if it really works as intended.

          • gawken

            Well, thank you, kind sir/madam..learn something new every day. What does it do? Does it work as intended? And more importantly, why not have ABUSE show up always..on each post. It might encourage more people to flag inappropriate/stupid comments, and also discourage some from posting them.

          • rbdwiggins

            It’s the masculine. Whether or not it actually works is above my pay grade, and the trolls already abuse the arrow system well enough without additional advertising.

      • plumely

        Does Redstate have a mission statement and if so where can I find it? I have made some recent mistakes on here and could be considered one of those you call an idiot. I will attribute it to a misunderstanding. I came on here thinking this was an activist site. As a result, I posted some diaries with ideas that came from thinking outside the box. I wanted to do this because before I wrote diaries that trashed Rinos and pretty much stated that the party had lost its way, So, inorder to counter balance that, I started to come up with ways for us to become activists and point the party toward victory by being conservatives and not squishes. Agreed, some were good ideas and others flopped. But, what I am finding out is this really is a site for people to discuss political policy. Is that a correct assumption?

        • westcoastpatriette

          Here ya go, plumely. http://www.redstate.com/posting-rules/ These used to be easy to access but not only did I have to hunt to find them, this is the second time I posted this reply to you…the first one disappeared into cyberspace.

          • plumely

            thanks, just read them and they are very clear and comprehensive.

  • kipling

    The trolls have definetly learned how to game the Disqus system. We had a couple of anti – Second Amendment leftists on here the other day. They would post a comment about how radical the NRA was or how conservatives hated children and civilization, then, within minutes, they would be voted up 15 to 20 points. A mod got to them pretty quick but it was a mess for awhile.

  • kipling

    I would like to see the Diary system revamped. I spend a lot of time on some of my diaries. “Social Conservatism Must Adapt to the 21st Century” took almost six hours – and yes I know I am slow. The diary is then on the main screen for about a day before it gets memory-holed down the scroll bar. Hardly anyone uses the “star” system so I have no idea if the diary is well received or not. I would like to see the “Recommended Diaries” section brought back or perhaps a second diary section for longtime regulars. Otherwise, I don’t see the point in taking the time to write a diary when someone can go on a rant or post a flip-flop ad and bump me off the page. Without feedback, I feel like I am wasting my time and energy. I enjoy the writing but I need something to let me know it is beneficial to others as well.

    • checkmate2012

      I agree with you 100% kipling and you’re not slow. I too spend much time writing a diary, marinate on it for a couple of days to be sure I’m coherent and then watch it go down the drain of the constant scroll of diaries that are redundant. And what good does the star system do? When is the star relevant unless it means someone actually clicks on “popular” as I rarely use that and not sure that even works; the few times I’ve clicked it the sort is out of whack anyway. It’s defintitely harder to incentivize us to write a well thought out diary these days, but onward we go.

    • rbdwiggins

      I’d like to see the ‘trusted user status’ reinstated. Similar to the way it was at Redstate-dot-org. Diaries should be closed to the general population until they’re able to establish a credible comment history and earn trusted user status, and the Recommended Diaries section should also be reinstated.

      Voting privileges for comments and recommended diaries should be limited to those that have earned ‘long-time trusted user status’, and those votes could aid in establishing a credible posting history and earning future trusted user status.

      Kipling, check your diary – “Social Conservatism Must Adapt to the 21st Century”

      • kipling

        Thanks, rbdwiggins. I had not realized that. : )

        • rbdwiggins

          From one long-timer to another… You’re welcome! Glad I could help.

      • checkmate2012

        rbdwiggins, how did you find his diary? I did a search on the exact title and nothing was returned. I clicked on his name to see all his diaries and it didn’t come up (got an error msg when I clicked on page 2 to see more) and searching on someone’s name produces zero results…which is really annoying IMO.

        • rbdwiggins

          I posted a couple of comments to the diary while it was still active, and I saved the comments and the url’s to my database. Disqus has a nasty habit of losing stuff, or the stuff getting pushed off my personal page.

          I can still access the page, but the diary might be marked private by the author and it’s currently hidden from public view? If you want to read the diary, you may consider asking Kipling to provide you with a link.

    • westcoastpatriette

      Agree. Most of my diaries are fairly abbreviated as I also do not want to put a lot of time into something that no one reads. All of the complaints about how awful the switch to Disqus has been, has resulted in the site being cold and impersonal. And the trolls are a huge reason for that. One of the main things I loved about RS was that it was a site exclusively for conservatives. Now it feels like we are infested with the enemy all of the time.

    • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

      I agree on all this. The new comment system is slick, but has degraded the community aspect of the site. Lack of recc’d diaries took away the best thing about Redstate prior. The fact that trolling is now easier and impacts comment scores makes it worse. a typical liberal phony false “blame Bush” comment gets thumbs up, while great conservative insight collects dust.

      • thirdeblue3639

        I’ve noticed that too. There must be a lot of liberal lurkers and op-researchers out there.

    • Chris Myers

      Hear, hear! I know I’m new still (only been here about a week), but I’ve had similar thoughts.

      By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed the diary you mentioned in your comment, and am now heading over there to tell you so!

      • kipling

        Thanks, Chris Myers. It is always good to hear that kind of feedback.

  • funwithknives

    When we here [and I'd like to think that 'we' includes Me] experienced The Change just a few short months ago I got a really bad feeling deep down in my guts that what ‘kowalski’ decribes, would happen.
    Other sites that use ‘discus’ have obvious ‘trolling ‘ symptoms galore, and it seems to have moved here.
    Add to this the fact that ‘many friends’ have up and gone , and it’s not really a pleasurable or informative place to be. Sure, the links at ‘RS Friends’ are handy, and some old-liners are still here.
    But all in all, This-Here Normal is effectively neutering this site, IMHO.
    Some sort of Subscription, however minimal, just might be the ‘weeding’, needed.
    Was losing gekster, lastGOP in Ill., acat, TIFW Texas, and others worth this present situation?
    Can we at least ‘try’ to re-think this site, somewhat?
    [I ain't got much, but I can dodge-out some]

    • bobmark

      ^5

  • Jim_Riggs

    kowalski,

    I’m not sure but I think I may be one of the people you’re talking about. I joined RS years ago because I considered myself a conservative. Imagine my surprise when I was told I was no such thing. I recall having to look up the word “troll” after being called one several times. (Up until then I’d only heard the word used in reference to rockfish.)

    Not wanting to be where I wasn’t welcome I quit visiting the site but I’ve continued to receive and read Erick’s Morning Briefing almost daily for several years. Some of his opinions I’ve agreed with and some I haven’t. But after watching the Republican party slowly self-destruct over the last several years, and particularly during the recent presidential campaign, I decided to return and voice my opinions.

    I consider myself a guest here and as such I will conduct myself as I would if I were a guest in someone’s home. I try to be open-minded, though I’ve discovered that some here consider that a dirty word. But I will voice my opinions and if that means I should be banned then so be it.

    • westcoastpatriette

      I appreciate your honesty, Jim_Riggs, and since the conservative movement seems to be suffering an identity crisis of sorts, I wish you would write a diary elaborating on your first paragraph. Specifically, in what ways you consider yourself conservative and why you were called a troll by some here — and then explain why you disagree. IOW, you must have a different view of what conservative means and I would like to hear your views.

      None of us has all the answers and sometimes I am guilty of shutting down discussion because I tire of getting attacked by liberals. At the same time, I am fascinated by many like yourself who consider themselves conservative, love RS, and yet disagree enough to be looked at with suspicion at times. Care to take on the challenge?

      • Jim_Riggs

        Belief in personal responsibility, respect for privacy, tolerance for the beliefs of others, compassion for our fellow man and woman. These are the principles I try to live by. I believe they are conservative principles. At least they used to be. Maybe I’m showing my age.

        I readily admit there are some Republican policies I don’t agree with and I understand that to some that may disqualify me as a conservative. I accept that. It doesn’t make it true. It’s a battle not worth fighting imo because it can’t be won.

    • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

      lol, Jim, we all get called names if you are in a debate – it got worse in primary season when you picked the ‘wrong’ guy. But I’ve told Erick he’s wrong when I thought he was, on his own diary, and nothing untoward happened. And lol at westcoastpatriette, who called some of my thoughts unconservative, and more elaborately than that. So it goes.

      Real trolls know who they are and what they are doing – they are being dishonest. Their purpose is to disrupt the conversation. Some ‘conservatives’ wear that label and spend too much time attacking real conservatives rather than defending the principles and policies around it – David Frum comes to mind. If you get attacked for pulling David Frum (or for that matter McCain) type stunts of picking the scabs off conservatives, par for the course.

      • westcoastpatriette

        lol here, too, as I do not even remember the encounter. All the more reason I would like for Jim Riggs to write a diary — I readily admit I could use more listening at times. I am sure many have been falsely characterized and even banned in the heat of debate and the massive infestation of trolls has made that even more likely. But then, there will always continue to be legitimate disagreements no matter how clear we make ourselves.

        • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

          “But then, there will always continue to be legitimate disagreements no matter how clear we make ourselves.”
          Correct and we should be mindful of that and of the fact that having semi-conservative voices around doesnt hurt but adds to the conversation, when its respectful and constructive.
          It’s great that Jim thinks of himself as a guest – guests are polite and should be treated with kindness in kind … “Come on in, have a seat, here’s a cookie …” :-)

  • westcoastpatriette

    Most of us that have been here a while agree with you, kowalski, in terms of the net negative impact switching to Disqus has had on all of us and the site overall. I am not sure switching to a subscription-based site is the answer, though.

    I love the ideas some have suggested for raising the standard to allow people to write diaries and comment, but as long as we are with Disqus, that is probably impossible. There was a time that Erick was not happy with Disqus either and he let us know that he was open to change but we have not heard anymore from him about it.

  • ntrepid

    As a long term member who mostly shuns the front page and has always preferred the diaries and the conversation, I wholly understand your apparent frustration. As far as I’m concerned, that part of this site has been on life support since the mysterious purges around the Vassar Bushmills character in early 2011(?)…are we allowed to use that name around here?…and then pretty much died with the change to this new format. The place you seem to be longing for may be close the Ricochet.com set-up.

    As for me personally, I am still rather fond of RedState. It’s the one place I can go for the satisfaction of posting my rantings and ramblings with the confidence the few will actually read or bother to confront me on some of my wilder thoughts. I just wish some of the old, familiar names were still around.

    Ntrepid
    RedState Member since 2006…?

    • Melody Warbington

      Haven’t been around as long as you, nterpid, but I quite agree.

  • belcatar

    Kowalski,you are right. I just read a piece by Erick Erickson, and it took exactly two comments before the “discussion” turned to gay marriage, which the article had nothing to do with. I think the changes on RS have done much more harm than good. There is such a thing as beeing a victim of your own success. I fear RS may have suffered that fate.

  • kowalski

    Listen up people, I’m taking a break for a week and going to visit some beautiful outdoor landmarks, get out from behind this computer, and maybe hang out at some old antique shops or an old book bindery or something to clear my head. Maybe take a tour of the old mill towns here in Massachusetts and then go look at the places where the Minutemen really lived and worked.

    If I’ve offended anyone I’m sorry. I’m getting angry like this too frequently for my own good right now, although I really am serious about saying that I’d pay a subscription to this site and pay for the privilege to comment, I’ve meant that for many years. I think the “everything should be free” mentality that the Internet has inculcated in a generation of people now is one of the most destructive beliefs they can have. They see it online and they think it’s free, that it’s theirs. They take it. And sometimes they do something “creative commonsesqe” with it and remix it and add value to it, but most of the time they don’t. They just steal it.

    It shouldn’t be free. Someone builds it, someone takes the time to take care of it, someone curates it, and someone pays. There is no such thing as a free lunch. At some point the only thing you can really do to help the signal/noise ratio is to raise the barrier to entry.

    But if I called anyone a moron who isn’t a moron, I apologize.

    I’m pretty bent out of shape right now with what happened in New York State particularly in terms of the way they passed their laws with Cuomo standing there talking his spiel while the NYS Legislature rammed through the most sweeping gun legislation in the middle of the night. All so that Bloomberg could be feted in Baltimore and it would coincide with Obama’s presser, they took millions of people’s rights and just threw them into the fire. It was so rushed and so obviously designed to hit people like a bolt of lightning that the geniuses who drafted it didn’t even take the time to exempt their own law enforcement officers from the parts of the legislation that would make the COPS the criminals too. This is what the New York Times called governance that should be a “model for the country?” If that’s the model, I want out.

    I watched this Administration win reelection and I’ve known that if they did, everything I’ve fought for and believed in for the past 10 years – everything we’ve fought so hard to achieve – would be placed in jeopardy. The things we’ve fought for have empowered millions of people who are law abiding and very decent citizens to exercise their rights under the Constitution. We have nothing to be ashamed about. It disgusts me, and I’m a disgusted person right now. I really hate it when I’m right about the worst things I predict, and so far I’m like 8/10.

    So I’m talking a week off and I’m going to try to find some balance and recenter myself and quit ranting and raving like this. But I hope at least people realize that this place – Redstate – is a very important place in the blog ecosystem and I cherish it very much and I want to see it preserved. Even if that means raising the bar a little and excluding some people who frankly shouldn’t be posting until they’ve read enough to understand what they’re talking about, and who agree to put some skin in the game.

    Wayne LaPierre is on Hannity tonight for a full hour and I hope everyone watches – 9 to 10 pm. ET.

    • Melody Warbington

      Enjoy the time off, kowalski.

    • kipling

      Get some rest. I too find that history and books help. Godspeed.

  • Viet71

    Two recommendations:

    1. Get rid of the up and down arrows. Distracting at best.

    2. Appoint one or more deputies or hall monitors to maintain order when mods are busy elsewhere.

    • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

      “1. Get rid of the up and down arrows. Distracting at best.”

      Good point. It doesnt reflect the opinion of management or members, but a random sampling of … (who?) , so it adds little value.

    • Bill S

      We have suggested that to Disqus. Multiple times. They could care less what we think.

      Any time you see someone that needs immediate attention, email contact@redstate.com and let us know.

  • Spike

    You sound frustrated. It’s too bad that newer folks, like me, are the precieved problem for you think is wrong with Red State. My diary entries may not always be the most thoughtful, but I spend hours on what I do post, trying at least to be as honest, logical and thought provoking as I can muster. I don’t apologize to anyone for my views or for wanting to express them.
    I often think about not posting on an issue because I others have made a post about gun control or whatever topic is at top of mind for most people. If we don’t post, then perhaps those who enjoy reading the material will not get the benefit of mutliple Points of View about a subject. Very often, I read posts on similar subjects, but have different enough PoV to be truly interesting.
    I can’t opine on your suggestions about paying for site use, or how the site ‘used to be’. I can opine on the first amendment freedom that offers me, you and others like us the opportunity to voice our views. Kowalski, I have read your diary posts. Many are interesting and thought provoking. You may feel that some of your writing is lost before others can adequately read and review. I can only encourage you to keep writing and epxressing yourself. Just when you least expect that what you write may be doing any good or making a difference, someone will read your diary and take away a nugget of sanity, insight or benefit for their own thinking.

    • PowerToThePeople

      Slight correction Spike, you have no first amendment rights on private property, hence you have none here. I would also point out that the author is not referring to all new folks or even the one who “can not” write as well as some of the others, he is referring to the massive influx of idiots that are cowards who hide in the shadows with the the sole intent of disrupting this site. He is referring to those who write diaries back to back to back and yet offer little to no substance in them.

      I have not read any of your posts, so only you know if you meet the criteria the author has expressed. But just remember, you are not entitle to speech here nor are you protected by the 1st amendment here. This is private property and you can only do and say what the site allows you to do and say.

  • checkmate2012

    kowalski, I was one of the first commentors to lament your sentiments and back your frustrations. Then kipling chimed in with many pertinent comments. Meanwhile, I posted a diary I worked on for hours and nary a word from either of you. I guess it just goes to show that like baseball, there is no crying in posting…

  • sliverlining

    I would love to see the toll system start up if only to see how much actual improvement comes about as a direct result.
    The Ohio Turnpike still has bad drivers on it and LOTS of cops.