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Gettysburg BURNS God out of town, Civil War chapel “under fire” destroyed, ARSON suspected

Update 12/7/10. I have received the news, as suspected, this fire indeed was caused by arson. Please read the update on my new diary.

Please see my previous post, “Gettysburg wants to kick God out of town, threatens historic Civil War chapel” for background.

This morning the Borough of Gettysburg, the Borough Historical Architectural Review Board (HARB) and many residents critical of this little Civil War chapel got their wish: the chapel along with several other structures adjacent burned to the ground.

Here is a slideshow of the fire as it was happening.

Gettysburg fire

The chapel has been “under fire” literally when the Borough inspection service issued a “cease and desist” letter several days before the chapel was to have it’s final service of the season on November 21: “Remembrance Day” for all those who perished at Gettysburg. Liberty Institute and Wilmer Hale, a DC law firm had been working with the Borough in an attempt to resolve this issue. Until now. But things have changed.

My original story did get the attention of FoxNation, most of the 98 comments were positive but of course we have the usual folks who are against, and our resident nuts. But the real eye-opener came from commenters in one of the Gettysburg local newspapers. It seems the Borough also “came under fire” because many of the residents had seen this diary on Fox and felt they just might need to make a response. I’ve been checking every day, and I’ve seen no response. However, let’s take a look at some of the comments from the article:

Why is nobody talking about the way the boro tried to sidestep the rules in their construction project on the boro building, now people will see how this boro operates, do as I say not as I do. The rules are different for the council and their homes and businesess. How many times has King John written notes about his own house on his morning rounds? Wouldn’t it be cool if the boro had to follow their own rules….

Very nice, positive comment. Here’s another:

After attending a beautiful Sun. morning service

at The Civil War Chapel, It astounds me that the towns people of Gettysburg want to go against the law of the land.I thought churches were tax exempt. What is really going here ??? Does it have anything to do with their NO CASINO stand? The civil war roundtables and Veterans Organizations in Michigan will hear about this. This is Hallowed Ground as well that should remain. Is there a double standard here?

Sincerely,

Michigan reeanactor and American

Another nice, positive comment. Now take a look at this one:

The Liberty Institute is a fringe Religious Right organization being assisted by WilmerHale, a large Washington DC law firm. Gettysburg should hire equally high-end public relations advisors to handle the publicity. This issue is clouded by the ignorant and uneducated local Bible-thumpers [emphasis mine] who don’t know their rear ends from a hole in the ground. They should have their bungholes handed to them

Wow, now Christians are “fringe.” Wonder what this guy would say if a mosque wanted to be erected there. And here’s another equally as disturbing, this one after I placed a comment stating I was the writer of the diary that was receiving the attention:

Carol Greenberg wrote:

FYI, I am LadyImpactOhio who did the original post on RedState that made FoxNation and have the city council’s panties in a knot.

http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2010/11/22/…

I’m not gonna back down, just like Chaplain Wega and his attorneys.

And you’re proud of that? You’re just another lying witch [emphasis mine] who wants a name. Gettyburg is full of churches and is not trying to kick God out of town. You know, I hope it stays – the way it is now – and a nice big storm comes up and blows the building and it’s saviours to hell – in splinters. And I won’t back down. Good riddance to the lot of you.

Nice. Here is the link to the video about the fire. For whatever reason, it will not play here, but it will play on my personal website, linked at the bottom of this diary. And here is a link to another video where Chaplain Wega gives his comments. Unfortunately, there is no embed code for this one.

I have no doubt in my mind, as the news sources and coverage suggests, this fire was a result of the big “A WORD”: ARSON. Yes, it will need to definitely be proven, but if it was arson they wanted it down badly enough that they didn’t care that other buildings were burned and lives were endangered. Thankfully, no one was hurt. The Red Cross is involved however assisting families who are displaced in apartment buildings next to the chapel which were damaged.

Liberty Institute, a Conservative legal-assistance organization who was assisting in the defense of the chapel provided me with this statement today shortly after the fire. ATF and the FBI has been called in, as well as the National Church Arson Task Force.

“Earlier this morning we were shocked to learn that the Gettysburg Log Chapel and several other buildings were destroyed or severely damaged by fire. The circumstances of the fire are under investigation, but it appears that the fire may have been deliberately set. We contacted the FBI and have been told that ATF and other officials from the National Church Arson Task Force are joining the investigation. Burning down a church is a federal crime [emphasis mine] under the Church Arson Prevention Act of 1996.

The Gettysburg Log Chapel closed for the season in November per an agreement with Borough officials, and was secure and unoccupied at the time of the fire. Our prayers go out for those who have been affected by the fire, and for the First Responders on the scene.”

If this WAS arson, this is an unconscionable act. Apparently our “freedom of religion and 1st amendment rights” are under fire. Literally.

Congratulations, Gettysburg. I never thought the city who is home to one of the nation’s most sacred shrines would stoop this low. However, apparently I was wrong.

I’ll keep everyone updated.

Crossposted at Conservative Outlooks

COMMENTS

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    VB

  • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack
    • renny

      You should spread it around on other sites.

  • makemyday

    How can we prevent this from becoming a backpage story tomorrow and gone the next day? God knows we have enough casinos which makes it pretty sad that Gettysburg has chosen one over Him. If this is in fact arson we need to see a perpetrator behind bars.

    I get pretty worked up over stuff like this and want to see some blood. We really need to consider ourselves under attack as a body politic and react accordingly.

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • chbroussard
    • SoulEspresso

      As frustrating as it is to see American culture turn its back on Christianity, we’re not being persecuted. Harassed sometimes, but not persecuted.

      Check out persecution.org if you want to see some real cases.

      • powertothepeople

        the guy who always has to be the antagonist or do you think we are all stupid on this page?

        We know Christians in other places have it much worse, the point trying to be made, which you seem to miss, is that it is quite sad that all that is Christian is hated and or under attack in a country that was founded, in part, because of religious persecution, was founded on religious freedom and tolerance, and was founded based on many Christian values.

        Do you get the point now……………?

      • ladyimpactohio

        It’s not right to denigrate the memory of this chapel that so many worshiped in, or the ashes that it now is. I think we need to leave it as is.

        • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

          Do you have the transcript? Did you participate and if so how does one get to participate? I am working on a big oil story and need the original sources from your previous blog on the Gulf matter. I left several questions on your blog but never got a response probably due to the fact that Redstate only provides a limited number of prior comments on profile page.

          • ladyimpactohio

            I was invited by a PR firm which provides info for some posting they have asked me to do, not only on this subject but others as well.

            I know it was taped, but not sure if it was for public dissemination though. I was taking notes on the computer as they were talking. A bit later I was emailed the documents I placed in the diary from same PR firm. I can email them and ask if they know if the conference was recorded and available.

            Sorry, not sure if you meant you posted questions here or on my own website. Only have one comment on my own website and it’s not from you.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • ladyimpactohio

    I think fitting restitution and/or punishment would be to MAKE them rebuild this chapel at their own expense with tools ONLY AVAILABLE during Civil War times.

    • LisaDe

      and they find the people who did this, I hope they search their bacements and find the Mohave desert Cross. And I hope that this story doesn’t die like the stolen Cross story died.

      • ladyimpactohio

        Here is an email I received from lead attorney Kelly Shackelford from Liberty Institute, referring to the Mojave Cross:

        “First, vandals tore down and stole the Mojave Desert War Memorial. Now, this simple Civil War Chapel has been burned to the ground. Those responsible for these heinous crimes won

        • LisaDe

          Thank God there are people out there that really do care. These two crimes are so filthy. I hope this doesn’t turn into a pattern. As usual, Thank you for bringing the story to light.

          • SoulEspresso

            … now that I’m thinking about it …

  • SoulEspresso

    In this post I’m going to ask some questions that might get me in trouble, so let me say at the outset that I’m pleased the federal authorities have been called in and that the Liberty Institute is citing the Church Arson Act. (OT but did that come up with regard to the Wasilla Bible Church fire, and I missed it?) I’m opposed to the concept of “hate crimes” per se but if we’re going to have laws against them, maybe this is a case. If it was arson, I hope they catch the arsonist and that they get the full penalty. I have to say this obvious stuff that no one disagrees with first.

    That said, but why is it good for Christians or for conservatives to have a church sanctuary that is neither up to building codes nor in an historically accurate location (in a setting where that very much matters)?

    I’m all for Christian tourist traps (if it doesn’t have a local congregation who meets there and does other kinds of ministry besides Civil War education, it IS a tourist trap). I’m also for obeying the law. Having a building in violation of code (and pretty egregious, judging by the fire!) and then complaining about an “anti-God” borough who has legitimate (!) safety concerns is no credit to the gospel. In other words, if we’re to be persecuted, let us be persecuted for righteousness’s sake, not for being obnoxious.

    What if the fire turns out not to an arson fire? If it’s not, that makes those in charge of the chapel potentially responsible for making six families homeless.

    • ladyimpactohio

      This chapel was built in 2006 in the city of Gettysburg, Yea, NOT on the battlefield. On a vacant lot where a fire had occurred 2 years earlier.The Chaplain had acquired all the necessary permits at the time required by the Borough. It is cited in the response of the DC attorneys to the Borough of Gettysburg.

      Due to inclement weather, the Chaplain decided it was necessary to change his original “tent roof” to a “tin roof” and at the time, to the best of his knowledge and according to PA and federal law he did not need to go back to the borough for an additional permit. This is also noted in the DC attorney response.

      Apparently some have presumed, but not proven, this is where the “beef” of the Borough comes from. It has been intimated that the Borough wishes, though opposed by many including Chaplain Wega, for casinos to be built in the area. Where remains to be seen. Time will tell in this instance.

      At this juncture I am going to let the ATF and the FBI do their job, along with the National Church Arson Task Force.

      Please remember this chapel WAS about as big as my family room. Some have complained on the blogs it should have “running water and toilets.” This is a replica of a Civil War chapel, which has held church services from April to November, built according to, and based on historical records. If you feel your family room needs running water and toilets, then I say go for it.

      • acat
        • SoulEspresso

          .. and they’re up to code.

      • SoulEspresso

        … but that doesn’t mean Chaplain Wega and the supporters of the chapel are off the hook for complying with the law.

        One of the things about living in America that I love is that ordinary people can have a voice in local government. So supporters can try to get local zoning laws changed. In the meantime, what’s so bad about going with the change? It’d be cheaper than hiring lawyers and starting a fight.

    • ladyimpactohio

      CHRISTIAN TOURIST TRAP?? Not even going to respond any further. Think you belong on the other side of the fence.

    • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

      As LIO pointed out, they did have an historical replica that was up to code. It had been approved, in fact. But so much for facts you aren’t in command of.

      While it may seem one man’s tourist trap is another man’s sanctuary of hope, just as it also seems one man’s indiscriminate murdering of babies is another man’s dance for joy…it seems they are taken from two different stew pots altogether…one of hope, and liberty, the other of tyranny and bilge.

      I think you can see the game is own. Thanks for outing yourself.

    • penguin2

      congregation to avoid your so-called “tourist trap” designation. In fact, simple shrines and chapels are perfectly legitimate for moments of prayer by one or many. Though, of course, God does not require a building, as he knows what is one’s heart……

      Your pseudo-argument and sympathy for those that were made homeless does not cover up your slam on Christians(or perhaps others of faith), and it I was a betting lady, though I don’t know how to lay the odds, but I’m going for almost 100% belief that it was arson. Too coincidental, too suspicious. Regardless of cause, we know that someone is pleased that this happened; you could be that someone.

    • itrytobenice

      Though that’s certainly sad. The worst part of the story is that there are people out there who are content to destroy the work of another’s hands, regardless of the suffering they will cause. People sacrificed for that building. They gave part of their lives; they gave their money; they gave their efforts. That matters and it should not be treated casually.

      For you to denigrate their work with a sneering reference to a Christian tourist trap is to add insult to injury. It doesn’t show you to be a high quality person.

    • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

      And hiss.

      What a crappy comment. Listen:

      It’s not good for anyone to build a building that is not up to code, without the necessary permits. Nobody is arguing that’s the case. When the chapel was built, all the permits appeared to be in place, etc. This was just a guy building a cool thing on a historical site.

      I mean, I’m a sanctimonious, self-involved law student, and I’m willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt regarding the permit issues. Why? Because permit processes SUCK. They’re confusing and convoluted and arbitrary and they change every 18.5 seconds.

      But honestly, that’s not what this post was about. This post was about some jerkoff who (in all likelihood) decided to end the controversy by torching a little chapel for no reason. So, I mean, if you’d like to talk permits, I’ll do some legitimate research and get you all the information you never wanted about the permits needed for this sort of thing.

      But that’s not reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally what you want, is it?

    • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

      I’ve taken a look at your posting history and at this time am taking you as being here in good faith.

      That said, it does look to me that you commented hastily without first performing due dilligence as to the facts of the case. I trust you will do so now.

      1) First, I think you will see that your ” Christian tourist trap” phrase was out-of-line. This is not a shlocky roadside shrine featuring an embalmed tortilla with what some think is the face of Jesus on it, treating it as a holy relic.

      Rather, this chapel was an historical reconstruction of the kind of chapels that were built and used during the Battle of Gettysburg, and its reconstruction was a tribute to that battle and those who served there. And to be there 24/7 for people who want to have a quiet space to commune with God and reflect on matters in a chapel.

      This was a labor of love on the part of pastor Wega and the other volunteers who built and maintained this chapel, not exploitation.

      And chapels are quite widespread throughout our nation in areas where there is not the local community to support a church but which are serving the needs of the public. Public parks and conference center come to mind as two such cases. And there are other locales where chapels meet the need of ministering to people traveling away from home and from local churches.

      So take another look at your reflex reaction to assume that anything but a local congregation equates with a “Christian tourist trap”.

      (Be careful of generalizing from some bad past experiences and take a more reasoned look.)

      2) You also were hasty in presuming that the city zoning department was correct and the chapel was in the wrong/violating the law on this issue.

      I hope that your looking further will show you that there is reasonable evidence to indicate that the chapel was operating withing the law and in accord with representations that city officials had made to them.

      And so I would trust that you will revisit your comments and tread more carefully, including, I would hope, a retraction. And have a more charitable spirit towards the people involving in building and maintaining this chapel.

    • runner12

      examples of the commercialization of Christianity around, I do not think that this chapel falls into that category. No, it does not have a congregation. But that is because it is more of a reflective memorial. The Battle of Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle in the Civil War. Over 45,000 men lost their lives during the battle. I think that warrants a quiet place to reflect and pray.
      Regarding the violation of “code”, this is a subtle tactic that has been used by many to “get rid” of Christian symbolism (they tried it in my hometown and were thankfully unsuccessful). They know they cannot come outright and say they don’t want it there, so they come up with a “code” to get around the 1st Amendment. Therefore I am very skeptical that there was any real true violation of code here.
      Self-righteousness is one of the ugliest mantras we as Christians can put on and I am afraid that your post was quite full of it. It is hard to determine intonation in a post, but your words certainly came across this way.
      It is sad that people are out of a home and that a church was burned down. I hope that if it is arson, they catch those who are responsible.

      • ladyimpactohio
        • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

          runner12 can clarify, of course, but the comment explicitly started out addressing SoulExpresso, and nothing in the composition of the comment that I can see indicates a change in addressee between the second and third paragraphs.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      There was nothing out of bounds or inappropriate in the slightest about this comment from SoulEspresso. Drop the clique-related ganging up, all of you. This is not a request.

      • E Pluribus Unum

        There was a way to handle this.

        • Leon H. Wolf

          The first and most important being that you are in a position to cast aspersions on the way that it was, in fact, handled. The second is that the site’s rules about civility and respect do not seem to apply to a certain group of commenters that you favor. The third is that I didn’t already give that group more than the benefit of the doubt they deserved given the way they have repeatedly behaved.

          Neither I nor anyone else has the time to email, what, forty different people individually to tell them to knock off ganging up on people for having the temerity to disagree with a badly supported and poorly reasoned piece of manufactured outrage, just because the author of that piece belongs to some sort of cabal. So get over it.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            Referring again to the posting rules:

            No profanity.
            No personal attacks.
            No harassment or demonization of a particular individual.
            No disruptive behavior or off-topic remarks for their own sake.
            No trolling or mobying
            Notwithstanding the list above, the proprietors of this site in their or their designated site moderators

          • E Pluribus Unum

            And your know exactly what I am talking about, Leon. From the top, your assessment that the offending commenter said nothing out of bounds is bullcrap. The reaction, nevertheless, of the commenters was uncalled for. I agree with that, of course

            But your response was high handed and arrogant. You’ve made threats now against some people who have a long and honorable history at RedState and elsewhere (not necessarily every commenter above). People who deserve better respect than that.

            There were two people you could have come to to said “you better tell your people to knock it off, or we’re gonna start dealing with it”. And this problem would have been dealt with instantly and effectively.

            But no. You had your fun waving the Blam Stick. So have your fun, Leon. You have the authority, but you have not earned it, and the only respect you have is the kind gotten at the barrel of the gun.

            You can continue, if you want, but this conversation is over.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            Some people started a coordinated attack on a commenter in violation of the posting rules and I warned them in accordance with the posting rules. You then decided to start a pissing match with me in order to prove that you’re a big, tough guy to all the people who got warned. The only problem is that you lack the necessary equipment to finish the job. You’re not a contributor here anymore, you never were a moderator, so complaints about site moderation policy can go to the contact form like everyone else’s.

            Rest assured that your commentary about what respect I have or have not earned in the five and a half years I have been a moderator at RedState will be given all the weight it deserves, which is to say as much as the hilarious emails regularly featured in the popular “From the Mailbag” section.

    • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

      I agree with Leon and don’t think SoulEspresso’s comment was out of bounds.

      I also think the piling on here is rather unfortunate for a comment that raises some good points.

      Ladyimpactohio’s first response from 12:43 AM might should have stood on its own without the pile on.

  • ladyimpactohio

    were seen running from the chapel area right before the fire broke out. Noted by several witnesses, and matching the descriptions of those who also vandalized the chapel several months ago but were never caught.

    ATF & state police are on the scene investigating. No pronouncement of arson, at least not yet.

  • Uma Richie

    and your support of the chapel; however, I am in strong disagreement with your characterization of the fire as being Gettysburg vs. God.

    Your previous diary on this subject received a lot of attention external to the site. If this diary does as well, I think your sensational headline, denouncing the entire town for the actions of a few or maybe just one, will reflect poorly on RS and the conservative movement in general.

    I took the time to drive to Gettysburg yesterday to get a feel for the setting. The lot on which the chapel stood is in an excellent business location, just a block off the center square. My personal opinion, is that money, not religious persecution, was the motive behind what I am convinced was arson.

    Furthermore, as you wrote earlier, the chapel recently received an award from the Gettysburg Chamber of Commerce (GCC). Isn’t the GCC part of Gettysburg?

    There appeared to be a willingness on the part of the town council to work with the chapel on getting the proper building permits; however, the process was being hamstrung by the architectural review board. The architectural review board members may dislike new churches, or they may have been embarrassed by not exercising due diligence on the chapel for 5 years, or they may have been flexing their bureaucratic muscles. Whatever their motivations, the architectural review board is an appointed commission, and their recent actions cannot be blamed on the voters of Gettyburg.

    I just did a quick yellow pages search for churches in Gettysburg and counted 28 unique Christian congregations in a town of 7500 people. That seems like a reasonable church:citizen ratio to me. Gettysburg is also home to a Lutheran seminary. In short, no matter how many Gettysburg College progressives and artsy-fartsy historic district liberals show up in town, they aren’t getting rid of God anytime, ever.

    Thanks again for covering this story.

    • Uma Richie

      The last fire at this locale occured on Jan 31, 2004 shortly before 6 AM. It destroyed a homeless shelter.

      The investigation into the cause was called off three days later because the building was structurally unsound.

      Very interesting indeed.

    • ladyimpactohio

      I am digging a little further into this situation and I am sure Liberty Institute, who approached me to do the original story will keep me updated.

      Yes, I am aware of the previous fire in 2004. That is precisely why Chaplain Wega chose this location for his chapel. It was a vacant lot and was the correct size for his needs.

      Lightning does struck twice in the same place.

  • SoulEspresso

    Let’s start with apologies:

    As noted above, I missed the part about the chapel being at code when it was built and perhaps should have considered it. I do not believe that fact gives Christians a pass for breaking the law. Work to change the law? Fine, that’s our responsibility as citizens. In the meantime, obey it, unless it is in clear violation of God’s laws.

    Second, the phrase “Christian tourist trap” was poorly chosen. Chaplain Wega’s work should not be equated with the kinds of places that draw people in via cheese sandwiches with holy faces on them. I’ve been to Gettysburg half a dozen times but none of them recent enough to visit the chapel and see for myself. “Judge not,” etc.

    Done apologizing.

    Far be it from me to impugn the motives of LadyImpactOhio or other chapel supporters; I do believe that they are wrong in some ways. Let me advance some principles behind what I wrote.

    1.) America will only be as great as long as she is good. At the end of the Constitutional Convention Ben Franklin was asked about the government they were establishing: “A republic–if you can keep it.” Another famous statement by de Tocqueville was to the effect that American democracy would work until voters figured out they could give themselves money from public funds. In other words, America depends on a moral populace or it will flounder.

    2.) Questions of morality are ultimately spiritual questions. Those Founders who were Deists believed that Reason alone could guarantee a person would behave correctly, and that religion was needed for those unwashed individuals who were more superstitious. I disagree with that idea, and not because the French Revolution shot it in the head a few days later; any student of human nature could see that monster coming miles away. The spiritual questions have to be answered by religion, and frankly the Christian religion answers them best. (Christianity doesn’t exist to answer moral questions; it happens to answer them because it’s true. And I’m not saying only Christians are moral, either.)

    3.) The church, as the body of Christ’s followers, has to be strong (i.e. faithful to Christ) in order to answer the questions that matter most. Most congregations are not in the best of shape these days (to say the least) and so we have a bit of a downward spiral in American spirituality right now, which is playing out its moral consequences in our culture.

    4.) Since American culture depends on a moral populace, and since moral direction is best provided by strong, faithful churches, anything that weakens churches (or the Church at large, defined as the unseen body of believers faithful to Jesus) is … a bad thing.

    So I look at the situation. The law the chapel was asked to abide by was not an immoral law or really all that onerous (the number I saw was $10,000 to bring it up to code, but I didn’t look it up this time). While enforcement was carried out by flawed human beings with perhaps questionable motives, that does not relieve Christians from their duty to obey the authorities in this case. Instead they lawyer up and create a fight that makes national news.

    What happens for the larger picture? No skeptic is brought closer to the idea that Christianity is an intellectually defensible position; no artsy-fartsy historical purist will reconsider the artifacts of faith of Civil War fighters as worthy of consideration or display; no liberal will be convinced that Christians are honest brokers in the political discussion and worth listening to.

    Instead, followers of Christ, even though I know they don’t mean to, appear to be petty sensationalists spoiling for a fight. Some faith issues are worth fighting for. This one is of those, because of the lack of consideration that went into it, that damages the moral authority of believers and ultimately hurts America.

    • ladyimpactohio

      While I agree with you on many points, my understanding from the attorneys involved is that Chaplain Wega WAS TOLD he must bring it up to compliance, and yes, based on the estimates I’ve seen it WOULD have taken $10K to satisfy the borough.

      If you read the response of Wilmer Hale their position is they were trying to reach an amicable solution with the borough at the time the fire broke out. And they were confident the chapel via federal law was exempt from adding, subtracting, maintaining etc., etc., etc., whatever code would have been mandated for OTHER buildings other than a place of worship. However, this is now a moot point since the chapel no longer exists.

      FYI I was just notified that this was indeed arson. I am working on another diary as we speak.

      Thank you for your comments. They are appreciated.

    • ladyimpactohio

      I have posted a new diary with info about the arson fire.

      http://www.redstate.com/ladyimpactohio/2010/12/07/arson-officially-ruled-as-cause-of-fire-which-destroyed-gettysburg-chapel-burned-god-out-of-town/