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Obama’s assault on our domestic energy now a 4-alarm fire

By: ladyimpactohio (Diary)  |  February 16th, 2011 at 01:06 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Update 2/17/11 6:15pm.

Federal Court Orders Obama Administration to Act on Stalled Deepwater Drilling Permits.

H/t to Kenny Solomon who assisted with finding some of this info.

OK guys. This is tough love time. I can’t put it any other way, things are getting really serious. While we have been distracted with goings-on in the Middle East those in the present administration are wrecking havoc on our domestic fossil fuels and will stop at nothing to cripple our whole energy system. And we know this has been the plan all along.

Make no mistake. It’s all. About. Control.

I am talking about Sunstein, Obama, EPA, Steven Chu (Dept of Energy), Ken Salazar, Soros, Brasil, BOEMRE, Working Families Party, the whole nine yards. Did I leave anyone out?

There is so much going on here, so as not to take up too much space I am going to bullet the more urgent and important items and the others will be in the scribd. document below.

People are going to have to start paying attention and this has to get to the right people who can legislate, go to court, enforce contempt of court rulings, etc. or we’ll be living in caves with no wood, no matches. Only solar panels where there is no sun and windmills where there is no wind.

And to Doc Hastings Chair of House Natural Resources: let me be perfectly CLEAR, I’m sure you are competent and a very nice man, but writing letters to Obama’s minions, doing op-eds in The Hill and issuing press releases is NOT going to get this fixed. Even if Obama does read these letters, which I highly doubt, I am sure he immediately tosses them in the huge trash can next to his desk which also contains wadded up copies of the Constitution. We are losing thousands of jobs. We are losing coal mines, natural gas and oil wells and exploration. Millions upon millions of dollars in revenue and taxes which should be keeping us energy independent from the Middle East especially now when things are so uncertain are going down the tubes.

I am not normally an alarmist, but what I am seeing is truly alarming. A four-alarm fire with no fire hydrant in sight. Gonna lay it all out:

  • EPA pulls permit for Arch Coal mine in WVA citing “Clean Water Act” abuse. Aleady in use. WVA is second in coal production in the country.
  • Troubled Massey Energy is bought by Alpha Natural Resources. George Soros had 59,800 shares in Massey. No wonder Arch Coal lost the bid. Soros is now the proud owner of MOST of WVA coal mines.
  • Chevron, who has been embroiled in a lawsuit in Ecuador for 18 years, and was a couple days ago ordered by an Ecuadoran court to fork over $8.6 billion announced it is exiting the coal business. Chevron on twit says “no connection.” But I ain’t so sure.
  • Shell, who was the sole grantee of a permit for oil exploration in the Beaufort Sea after Dept. of Interior announced it’s moratorium was slapped down by the EPA who pulled their air permits. Shell has apparently decided it ain’t worth the hassle to fight the EPA and is pulling the plug on offshore drilling in Alaska.
  • Interior Dept. in civil contempt of court for failure to lift Gulf drill moratorium.
  • Hey, Mr. Obama. Bet ya already knew this, but I’m gonna tell these folks here: where does the metallurgy come from to build those solar panels? You guessed it: China, which has a monopoly.
  • With the assistance of ACORN/Bertha Lewis-spawned Working Families Party and actor Mark Ruffalo, NY Gov. Paterson bans natural gas horizontal hydrofracking.
  • PA puts Ruffalo on terror watch list for promoting ultra-lib/inflammatory/anti-natural gas hydrofracking film “Gasland.” The film shows a young kid from PA tooling around PA and the country attempting to set tap water on fire, and blaming it on natural gas. FYI this film is up for an Academy Award. Unfortunately NOT in the fiction category, so let’s keep this one quiet and hope it doesn’t win otherwise the libs will be out buying it like hotcakes and causing more troubles.
  • At least 50 Texas coal and NG plants go down in cold weather and they have to buy electricity from Mexico. Did EPA orchestrate this with their new regs? Pat Dollard says “yea” but I can’t confirm this as yet. But mighty suspicious…
  • Obama loans Brasilian mega-oil company Petrobras $2 billion when they have tons of revenue and we have plenty of areas here for drilling. Coincidentally, Soros a couple days before dumps 22 million shares of common stock and buys 5.8 million preferred. FYI Common stock has voting rights but the preferred is paying in excess of a 10% dividend.

I am going to stop here and continue with the scribd. doc below. For those who have read the above, the below document begins on page 3, No. 12.

The Obama Administration

And for all those who think that wood and timber are not on the table, think again. I met a colleague at CPAC from California who told me they have “rolling blackouts” on wood burning fireplaces and 65 “chimney police” who patrol looking for smoke out of chimneys.

Everything is on the table except for coal, wood, oil, and natural gas.

I hope I have overwhelmed and filled your brains which is what the Obama administration wishes: to deflect, to disorient and to distract.

FYI you can find the members of the House Natural Resources Committee here which I suggest everyone contact pronto.

Members of Fred Upton’s House Energy and Commerce Committee are here.

Crossposted at Conservative Outlooks

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COMMENTS

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  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

    It will make the GM and Chrysler take-overs actions look like chicken feed. And it only gets worse from there.

    But if you want a model, just look at Chavez and Venezuela. And don’t forget that Brazil has a self-avowed Communist as its new President.

    Lots of dots to connect, but the emerging picture is frightening.

    • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

      Correa in Ecuador is a Chavez-wannabe and is not far from it. Sad thing is most of the people in Brasil like her. They don’t know what they’ve gotten themselves into. It will be like the ’60s down there again.

      • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

        well, the whole of America. Energy is prosperity. It is what makes the modern world possible. Obama would rather be king over a medieval existence for his subjects.

        I can’t beleive that We the People have allowed the ObamaDems to steal our right to use our own resources for so long, ie since 1978.

        The USSR and al Qaeda would have paid Dems to do this.

        • http://www.redstate.com/etcartman Kenny Solomon

          What makes you think they didn’t ?

          But it wouldn’t be Al Qaeda, it would be The Muslim Brotherhood.

          I’d also add China into the mix, especially when it comes to the rare-earth stuff.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    Under a “pioneering agreement with the UN,” “Ecuador pledges no oil drilling in Amazon reserve,” 8/3/10. As you suggest, this is a big topic. The UN and the Hungarian are usually around in these situations. One lady, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.), ranking member on the U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee, is my hope for addressing the problem with the UN. I believe most of our problems would be over if we got out of the UN.

  • pilgrim

    The assault upon energy producing in the US is breath taking in terms of the number of lawsuits filed to impede and the variety of different types of products threatened. One additional area being attacked is the Bakke shale region of North Dakota and Montana. The envirowackos are protesting that the fracking processes are contaminating drinking water. We need to stay informed on the efforts to kill energy production in the US. We need to rein in an out of control EPA.

    http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/193066/

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      that the lone front page voice on the subject doesn’t emphasize. The attack on energy is amoral war on our right to life, liberty and happiness pursuits.

      Heck, I didn’t know The Powers That Be cared this much about the non-frontpagers.

      I feel better as my favorite verse of Scripture is Revelation 3:16 in which God says he spues the lukewarm out of his mouth and admonishes us to be hot or cold!

      What’s ironic is that I come almost solely for the member diaries as so many of the front page posts bury the lede and require so many link clicks to figure out the subject matter, after which reaching I discover its about some juvenile BS that bears little relevance to the advancement of conservatism or the GOP.

      There are only 24 hours in a day after all\ and am bout the business of substance, not fluff.

      Lady’s stuff ain’t fluff!

  • bobmontgomery

    ..but I read a report from FT on Drudge the other day that GE was buying heavily into oil well equipment, frankly paying premium prices to buy up submersible pump business. Frankly, I didn’t even know GE had anything to do with oil, but, that report just struck me, what with the Obama -Immelt connection.

    • http://www.redstate.com/etcartman Kenny Solomon

      Fershtay ?

      Icksnay on the illing-dray.

      ;)

      And excuse the pun, but it goes ‘deeper’ than just submersible pumps.

      It’s who’s using ‘em, which union they belong to (if any) and much much more.

      • bobmontgomery

        look like a rank amateur.

    • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

      GE got an exemption for a power plant in CA which was to be using turbines manufactured by GE.

      http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/obama-issues-global-warming-rules-january-gives-ge-exemption-febr

      GE had a hissy fit and denies.

      “In fact, GE received no exemption and had nothing to do with the waiver being issued. The EPA provided the waiver to the project developer. GE is not building the plant and did not advocate for the waiver.

      GE

  • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

    “Defending America’s Affordable Energy and Jobs Act.”

    Looks like the intention is to dump the EPA. I thought all bills had to start in the House?

    FYI WY is the number 1 coal producer in the country.

    • edintexas

      All funding (aka spending, or in DearLeaderSpeak “investment”) bills must originate in the House of Representatives. Even then, they can get around the Constitution on that. They did with Obamacare, where the House adopted the whole Senate bill (IIRC).

  • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

    He says we have 1 trillion barrels of shale oil in CO, UT & WY but Obama won’t issue any permits til, you guessed it, after the 2012 election.

    He read this diary, and told me what I already knew: “Carol, your diary doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of what is going on.”

    • lineholder

      Lots and lots of EPA notices going down. Oh, and NOAA is ramping up on the fishing industry too.

      • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

        That’s Obama’s plan: to overload and distract. “Watch what this hand is doing, not the other one.”

        And I’m afraid to look at the register.

        • http://www.redstate.com/etcartman Kenny Solomon

          It’s Sunstein. The Nudge Czar.

          Administrator For The Office Of Information And Regulatory Affairs.

          His title still sends chills down my spine, because it’s right out of Nazi Germany.

          Want to stop a large majority of what’s going on ?

          Get your contacts to start de-funding procedures against Sunstein’s office……and then move on to criminal and Constitutional violation investigations and trials. Take each and every single person in his damnable agency, plus the rest of The Czars and throw them out on the street.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
          • http://www.redstate.com/etcartman Kenny Solomon

            It took decades for him to master the ‘nudge’.

            But real soon, the ‘nudges’ will make way for shoves.

            It’s fitting the pattern for a Totalitarian takeover.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            to have him on his radio show all the time as a liberal foil.

        • lineholder

          health information updates. Part of the territory.

          But I’ve picked up on other things, such as those mentioned above…oh, and the homeless grants coming up in March.

          • lineholder

            is going to be of much help to the homeless, but it is on the list as potential property to be used. Same as the 230,000+ square ft building in SC. Lot of property on those lists.

            Something about it doesn’t sit right, but I can’t pinpoint why.

          • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio
          • lineholder
          • Dan McLaughlin

            Just below “alien landing site” and “retirement home for Elvis.”

  • mitomke

    Obama has turned NASA into a global warming institute and shut down future space flights. He has enabled the EPA to regulate the emission of CO2 as a pollutant. He has appointed Biotech reps to key positions in the USDA and FDA. He has made loans to foreign nations that compete with our corporations. Coal mines are now being sold to China and India. We will no longer own our resources they are being sold off to foreign countries. Obama is Freemason and a member of the Council of Foreign relations. He has pledged allegiance to a foreign power, the UN. Obama has betrayed the American people and he is the commander of the Armed forces. We are in deep deep trouble.

    • idahoboy

      as the EPA under Bush was also going to regulat the emission of CO2 as a pollutant.

      • leonidus2010

        No Obama is and Islama Fascist-Communist

        Just watched Glen Beck 12th Imam = The Antichrist

        I always knew Barack HUSSEIN Obama was the antichist now that I know the antichist is the muslim 12th Imam it all makes sense I always knew he was a radical Islamist it explains why he stood with Armadenijad and AGAINST Mubarak.

        • Doc Holliday

          don’t elevate Obama with crazy conspiracies. He is just another Chicago Machine leftist who craves power. He fit the mood of the populace in 2008. That mood was a vapid mixture of PC, anti-Bush, and the swooning of the MSM. Obama could just as easily won American Idol as the presidency. The same people who vote in Idol contests voted him in.

          If it were not for Obama’s cockiness and feelings of entitlement, he would be the first to tell you he can’t believe he won the presidency.

        • Doc Holliday

          he will pretend to argue for coal, but we all know he enables Reid and Obama. They elected him because he was “popular” and endorsed by the NRA lol. Well that is all well and good when the only well paying jobs in the state go away.

    • renny

      when it should kept its lack of scientific knowledge off the bench.

  • http://www.thehayride.com MacAoidh

    ….and was told (1) there is no moratorium despite the fact that last month Interior didn’t put out a single Gulf drilling permit, and (2) it’s not Bromwich’s job to issue permits.

    In other words, Bromwich has been listening to Cee Lo Green songs.

    http://thehayride.com/2011/02/vitters-boemre-meeting-a-bummer-as-bromwich-babbles-and-blathers/

  • idahoboy

    was made through the import-export bank and is really a guarantee on a loan made by JP Morgan Bank of NY. The reason the loan was made is that Petrobas will be buying equipment and services from United States companies.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    From the AP on Yahoo News:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110217/ap_on_bi_ge/us_grand_canyon_mining

    In part:

    The U.S. Department of Interior is proposing to bar the filing of any new mining claims on 1 million acres around the Grand Canyon.

    Interior Secretary Ken Salazar had temporarily withdrawn the acreage in 2009. Under the preferred alternative in a draft environmental study obtained by The Associated Press, new claims would be prohibited for 20 years.

    The Interior Department put the potential value of uranium mined near the Grand Canyon at $2.9 billion and the employment benefits at $613.7 million.

    As many as 10,000 mining claims exist on federal land near the Grand Canyon for all types of hard-rock exploration.

    Some 1,100 uranium mining claims are miles from the park’s boundaries.

    Thank you.

    ColdWarrior

    • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio
  • E Pluribus Unum

    Nice work (again), nice research (again). Keep the heat on, gal!

  • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

    IT AS IF THEY NEVER HEARD OF CLIMATEGATE.

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING!

    Humans exhale carbon dioxide.
    Plants require carbon dioxide for photosynthesis; it is their “food”!
    Carbon dioxide constitutes 3 to 4 percent of “greenhouse gases.”
    Human activity represents some small percent of that 3 to 4 percent.
    The greatest “greenhouse gas” is water vapor!

    See Climategate, a “meta”-website with links to all the best blogs and websites covering this subject, and hundreds of articles documenting “Anthropogenic Global Warming, history’s biggest scam”

    THE EMPEROR IS BUCK NAKED!

    This all makes me want to SCREAM.

    LIO, thank you so much for this piece — it is an excellent, hard-hitting summary. Gonna forward it to as many people as possible.

    • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

      I just added #20, #21 and #22 to the “assault list.”

      I sent the link to the WA coal plant under threat, #20,which is in Chairman Hastings’ state to his office and the response was “I’ll let him know…” duh..

  • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

    http://kuow.org/northwestnews.php?storyID=133792380

    I spoke with Coleen Morse of the Lewis Cty WA state GOP, where the plant is located, and was told a vote could be today to force the plant to convert from coal to NG or wood chips by 2020. The plant says there is no way they can fully convert before then. It’s located in Centralia, WA, just south of Tacoma and provides 10% of the electricity in WA.

    She also told me she honestly doesn’t understand where these people think they will get their energy from because there is no other plant.

    FYI it’s a Dem-controlled state legislature.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    should put front and center, with oil prices sky high and rising, Obama is delaying domestic production (aka american jobs). This wont play well poltically and the only hope Obama has on this is if the GOP doesnt sieze this issue and really put it out in front of the public on a daily basis. This is an issue that can not only unite the Republican party, it can unite the nation.

    • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

      when one sees an article here and there it doesn’t impact too much, but when you see a ton of stuff all compiled and laid out in a single document, hope it gets some notice.

      Let’s see what happens when China has a hissy fit and cuts off access to tellurium, of which they have the only mine in the world.
      Obama’s precious electric cars and solar panels need it.

      “the only tellurium mine that exists on Earth is in China, which is increasingly dominating the market for solar manufacturing. Rare earths are essential to the newest generation of batteries

  • Thomas Crown

    You’ve managed to take a serious topic and — without once getting into your bizarre, deranged, and quite frankly clearly autoerotic comments downthread — make it the stuff of conspiracy theories. I don’t know where to end, but just to begin, are you seriously alleging that the EPA would drive Texas’s power plants out of commission so that the State would have to buy power on the spot market from a country that makes the Rust Belt look like the Garden of Eden?

    The Obama Administration’s real, natural hostility to natural resource development and economic development is, in your hands, undoubtedly related to the fact that towers don’t fall that way!!!

    Lady, seriously: Seek help.

    And while I’m on the subject of peeving off people, shame on every last one of you who for some bizarre reason recommended this tripe. You’ve managed to crowd out quality — or at least, not-barking-mad — diaries with this madness. Some of you have been here long enough to know better.

    Sad.

    • Newton E. Mchuckney

      have Redstate front-pagers lost their manners?

      it’s a troubling trend…

      • Thomas Crown

        If you think this is rude, you have forgotten my approach back in the good old days. Helpful reminder.

        I redacted the next part, but it should demonstrate what I mean:

        “I’m calling each of you veterans out. I used to not ban you, and I am seriously starting to regret that. If you’d done anything like this five years ago, I’d have had your rear ends out the door without even bothering with a witty note.”

        This diary is garbage. It is worse than garbage; it is an affront to this site, an embarrassment to everyone associated with it, and clearly an indication that there are unplumbed depths of stupid just waiting to comment on the internet. Did I but still ban cretins, this woman would have been gone for the diary alone. (The camp comment would have been enough, too.)

        That you, and anyone else with more active brain cells than just the stem, felt it a good idea to actually recommend this, is something you’ll have to take up with whatever gods you believe in.

        • speciallist

          your braincells are overly active…

          I’ve seen a thousand diaries worse than this on RS…for you to come after LIO like this is strange to say the least

          • Thomas Crown

            I’m scared of what happens when I go farther.

          • speciallist

            probably a better use of your time than reading Redstate…

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            So I’d rather he come by here more often.

          • speciallist

            but would he be able to find something read?

            it seems the diaries on the rec list just aren’t good enough

          • Thomas Crown

            And promoted on that basis. I don’t get a kick out of cheating, especially when it makes the cheaters soft.

          • Thomas Crown

            Do you mean a Professional Corporation? (No, and no plans to be one.) Do you mean a personal computer? (No, but better that than a Mac.) Something else?

          • lineholder

            Was this comment just meant to be coy?

          • lineholder

            surely knows what PC means at RS.

          • Thomas Crown

            Just occasionally drop by for old times’ sake.

          • lineholder

            would gladly supply you with information about how to become a Precinct Committee member if you’re interested.

            He’s inspired a lot of people to become proactively involved at a grass roots level.

          • Thomas Crown

            Good on those who have.

          • lineholder

            because I’m not in a position where I can do it either. Wish I could.

          • lineholder

            would gladly supply you with information about how to become a Precinct Committee member if you’re interested.

            He’s inspired a lot of people to become proactively involved at a grass roots level.

          • lineholder

            would gladly supply you with information about how to become a Precinct Committee member if you’re interested.

            He’s inspired a lot of people to become proactively involved at a grass roots level.

          • lineholder

            would gladly supply you with information about how to become a Precinct Committee member if you’re interested.

            He’s inspired a lot of people to become proactively involved at a grass roots level.

          • lineholder
          • aesthete

            It’s ok.

            It’s ok.

            It’s ok.

            It’s ok.

            ;)

        • Doc Holliday

          I reccoed the diary because Obama is trying to destroy America’s fossil fuel industry. I don’t go in for conspiracies, nor have I verified everything LIO said. I do not even agree with everything she said because I can’t agree with certain things I do no know about. But I do know Obama is destroying coal and oil jobs and spending our money on economically unsound “green companies”. I know he is in bed with GE, they support him with money and praise, in return they get money for green industry, OUR MONEY!

          Some people here have some serious anger issues, and some paranoia issues. I come to talk politics and I recco a diary if I believe the subject is important. Don’t insult me or the other people who recco a diary. I am not on a list, I don’t recco only certain people’s stuff, I am my own man and call it as I see it.

          You should treat people better.

          • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Socrates

            nt

    • eburke

      I didn’t realize that I was ‘bizarre’ for having felt that this information was at least worthy of discussion.

      Perhaps the fact that so many ‘long-timers’ reco’d it should give pause for reflection rather than scorn. Unfortunately, as Newton mentions above, scorn seems to be increasingly common which is puzzling since a very valid call was made recently for RS to become a more civil place and more tolerant of those whose opinions might differ from one’s own.

      Troubling…and sad.

      • Thomas Crown

        How the Israelis may have tipped off Jews in the World Trade Center, and the Bush Administration, to the 9/11 attacks.

        How Trig Palin may be the child of someone other than Sarah Palin.

        How Barack Obama may be a Kenyan. Or Indonesian. Or Martian.

        How Bill Clinton may have had Vince Foster offed so he could run cocaine through airfields in Arkansas.

        We can’t confirm these as yet, but they’re mighty suspicious…

        My rule of thumb is that I treat as worthy of conversation things that at the very least aren’t absolutely bonkers. If you customarily engage in conversations around the water cooler about how the government is trying to control us with chemicals in the tap water, we’re simply going to have to differ on what’s appropriate for polite conversation.

        I’m not, however, going to agree that this kind of lunacy belongs at RedState. This psycho should be banned and this diary deleted. Civility is appropriate when dealing with sane people. Insane people should be forcibly restrained and medicated.

        • lineholder

          could you post a diary of your own presenting an opposing point of view on the facts?

          For myself, I’ve come to RS to learn and I’ve learned a great deal in the brief time I’ve been associated with this site. I have plenty of questions that roll ahead in my head sometimes about how different factors may or may not be connected.

          Given the direction that the situation has been going in, it isn’t all that difficult to believe that our opponents could be capable of what LIO has presented in the above diary.

          If this is incorrect, can you and will you set the record straight and present us the other side of the issue based on facts?

          • Thomas Crown

            Given the direction that the situation has been going in, it isn

          • lineholder
        • Jack_Savage

          Don’t knock it ’till you’ve tried it.

      • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

        ColdWarrior

    • http://www.800cart.com Ron Robinson

      A man of superior intellect, refinement and distinction, I think, would argue to the merits, rather than make personal attacks.

      • Thomas Crown
        • http://www.800cart.com Ron Robinson

          I understand completely now. Thank you for the clarification. Presumably you have no confidence in your own persuasive powers or the merits of your own argument.

          Certainly you have now convinced us to share that same level of confidence in your powers.

          • Thomas Crown
        • Doc Holliday

          see what I am getting at?

          • Scope

            who wants the old Redstate back, with all the old Redstate members, and be damned with anyone who posts something you don’t like. You have called for many commentors to be banned, including myself, and many others, simply because they disagree with you. You have proven yourself to be an “Authoritarian” who wants to control the comments, and the dialogue. When anyone disagrees with your ideas, you want them banned, by God, banned. You call others, including me “venomous” yet you type venom, albeit with nice sunshinny language all the time. You had the nerve to state in the comments section of your “test” diary that those that didn’t participate in your little “test” that they showed themselves for who they are more than if they just participated in your little gotcha test. How sick is that? Were you saying that the thousands of members at Redstate, that didn’t take your dumb test, proven to be dumb by many comments on your diary, that we are communists if we didn’t abide by your rules, and, just take the test dangit? If anyone has been an entrenched body here at Redstate, you have proven yourself to be one of them. The nerve of you to go after a respected conservative, Ron Robinson, because he has risen far far above your little tests and entrenched warfare against anyone who has the nerve to make a showing at Redstate. You sir are not honorable, you post your junk, but then call out others that are in the field doing the hard work.

            I’m still trying to fully understand your insane post that if Ron Robinson isn’t banned, then there surely is a conspiracy going on here at Redstate. Do you even have the first clue of what you type, or is it at that point in the day when you’ve hit the adult beverages? Hint, hint, your test diary had more negative comments than positive, and, for it to be at the reco diary level proves a point. Bless your heart, I know you try.

          • speciallist

            his reply was to Mr. Crown

            just fyi

          • Scope

            The blue line for me led to Ron Robinson’s post. It’s getting harder and harder to follow the blue line here lately, the blue lines lately don’t seem to mean anything any more , and more than me have been caught up in trying to follow the “yellow brick road.” No matter. the most of my post stands. The call was for a banning, which I would surely agree with in the case of Crown, but, when you call for others to be banned because they don’t agree with you, you have crossed a line. Doc has crossed that line, on more than one occasion. It is a fact that only moderators can ban, and in some cases that is a blessing. If it was up to Doc, I would have been gone many moons ago.

          • Doc Holliday

            is you revel in argument. I would be happy to never speak to you again. I learned what you were about long ago, and I don’t want anything to do with it.

            You are not a troll because you do care about politics. But your main reason for participating here is to start fights, if gives you a thrill. You were mad about my diary with the test that most people enjoyed so you made up criticisms that I did not say to others. You said it was a “gotcha test” but the diary shows it was nothing of the sort, you just needed to try to start a fight and had to invent something.

            What little I know about you Scope is quite scary. I know that you come here to fight and that gives you a thrill. I know you will search the archives to find anything you can get on a person and then use it for your jollies. I will not lie, I really can’t believe you have not been banned before. I could do like you do and post some of your greatest hits and they would turn most people’s stomachs.

            We all know that in this place not everyone is equal. Some are banned over a misunderstanding, others just can not be banned. I am sure some leaders here would like for me to move on, but they don’t have a good reason to do that. I am popular because I am a good guy, you should try it out. You have a free pass, and I can’t speculate as to why.

            BTW Scope, I hope I wasn’t the only one who was amused when you jumped on Erick’s bandwagon when he said the trashing and gang ups must stop. You are the worst offender, and it was even more clear when you made such a point of agreeing that people here should be more respectful. Kind of like the kids saying of “he who smelt it dealt it”.

            Do me a favor Scope, don’t reply to anything I post here and I will not reply to anything you post. I want nothing to do with you. I left the site for a month because I was so sick of you. I may leave again, but that will be again when I decide to do so.

    • texasgalt

      and has been for years. Did the EPA orchestrate the rolling blackouts on February 2? Not in one fell swoop, but the EPA has fought every permit for coal fired plants in TX. The Texas Senate is holding hearings right now to determined who hit who.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-26/texas-defies-epa-approves-coal-fired-plant-permit.html

      There are 42 rec’s on the diary. Maybe we are all victims of the full moon or maybe we remember this:

      I’m hoping somebody finds the responsible party as I would like to present them with the bill for my pool which froze like a hockey rink during one of the blackouts.

      • Thomas Crown

        Based on the recommender list, it looks like the same group of people recommend each other’s works up the list, and then a lot of people who only skimmed the diary recommended it.

        • speciallist

          a conspiracy theory….

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
          • penguin2

            people who have some pretty sour attitudes. It is unfortunate that people “cannot” reco diaries based on the fact that they consider them reasonable. Pretty sad that this has developed into such an ugly situation. Darned if you do and darned if you don’t. In this particular one, I thought LIO had pulled together some useful information we could discuss. I don’t have to agree about every point in a diary to decide whether to reco it or not.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Maybe you recommend purely based on your own personal views of worthiness. If so, that’s great.

            But I know for a fact that not all people do so.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            So, what, you are going to directly call question to what she says about her own personal judgement?

            Classy. This is Penguin, and if you are wanting to start the war to end all wars at RedState, then maligning Penguin’s character is a great way to kick it off.Well, while we are talking about things we know for a fact, I know for a fact a couple of other things too.

            • I know for a fact that some front-page editors at RedState plan and coordinate attacks on diarists here.
            • I know for a fact that some front-page editors deliberately bait diarists that they think they can push over the edge, and then ban them.
            • I know for a fact that some front-page editors encourage certain readers who go after unfavored diarists.

            It’s a glass house, Neil. I suggest you and the others put down the rocks.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            If you’re going to make threats, man up and spell it out.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            Your people started this. I do not own, nor am I the boss of these peopel that I’ll call “my people”. I do not want this. But I’m damned if I’ll sit still and watch the FP just have open season on good, honest people.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            …on account of some invented interpretation of my comments to Penguin2. My comment was worded to suggest that what she, personally, does does not change the greater point that it’s always the same people recommending these diaries by the same people.

            We know what’s going on. We know the players, we know the practices, we know how it works. Some of us are even on some of the distribution lists. Some ex-members of these circles email us and tell us about what they got kicked out of.

            And guess what? This cabal does a pretty good job of teaming up on anyone who dares challenge the cabal, so it takes a self-confident poster who knows the score at RedState, like TCrown, to take the onslaught and not get run off.

            We’re at the point that charges of misogyny are being slung around baselessly, as a continued and frankly bonkers campaign of demonization against Leon Wolf to which TCrown (and presumably me) will now be added.

            But I don’t care. If I don’t stay on everyone’s virtual Christmas Card lists because I’ll point out when certain diarists are making unhinged comments, or support the commenters or Front Pagers who do so, then I’ll wear it l ike the badge it is.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            I said if you want to start the war to end all wars, that was a good way to do it. My threat, such as it was, was that you will find that the community will fight back, and is indeed fighting back already. I don’t see threatening to fight back as particularly noteworthy or nefarious. It’s what people do when attacked.

            Yes, you and I are both well aware of several organized groups, whose purposes range between fellowship and activism. We’re both members of more than one. But I have no recollection of ever having kicked anybody out of a group of mine (well, one, but trust me, that person did not go running to RedState to complain or share secrets). When and where I lead, I lead with a good bit more delicate hand than the leadership displayed at RedState.

            Ask anybody. Even my detractors.

            But back to the thing. This is not about what you think about LIO. This is about what you think of the mentality and character of the most active readers here at RedState. I am at a vantage point to say that there is no command structure when it comes to recommends. People certainly share their opinions and point out what they like. People certainly recommend friendly diarists more than they recommend jerks, and more than they recommend diarists who do not interact with their commenters. People certainly recommend their friends more than not.

            But that all misses something. I don’t owe you or anybody else an explanation about what I recommend. And it is ridiculous that on a site with what, 150,000 readers a day, that 20 people can monopolize the top 10, even if they wanted to. Have your paranoid delusions, but even if I did “control” 30-40 people, which I certainly do not, what would it matter. And while I think you notice alot, does it escape your notice that some of the people who seem to have grouped together in recos, also get the most recommends from the rest of the community when they write diaries?

            Riddle me how that’s possible

            Frankly, if you guys just stayed in your little tower and talked trash about the peasants, it would only be unfortunate, and not downright malignant. But you guys take your prejudices and your paranoia and go on the attack, in an effort to police the content of this place.

            It has come to my attention that certain quarters of the FP crowd see this deep and widening rift between the FP and the rest of the active community as a bad thing. The last 48 hours have not been a good 48 hours for them.

            You seem to think “my people” started this. That is factually off base. As in BS.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            I really don’t care.

            I’m not really going to worry about hurt feelings at this point. I’m tired of it. I’m just tired of it.

            If calling out conspiracy theories is going to trigger accusations of misogyny, then somebody’s got to speak up, and somebody’s going to be me.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            What are those?

          • Common_Cents

            A non FP would post some breaking news, and a few minutes later to a few hours later a FP would post essentially the same thing and get recco’s and discussion.

            It discourages new people to get involved and spend some time writing additional diaries.

            Too cozy and tight of a group will not do this site any good in the long run.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
          • Common_Cents

            and what about FP’ers taking a minute to see if someone else or a new person has already posted something similar?

            It’s happened many times. I’d think the goal here is to grow membership.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Are you suggesting that there’s something unfair about Front Page posts getting more discussion?

            We’re not going to just stop writing about things that are ever hit in the diaries. We can and do promote good diaries, but our contributing editors are promoted firstly because they can write, and we want them to write.

            And we make no apologies for that.

          • Common_Cents

            I said breaking news type diaries, not in depth writing. That is where some bias shows for various writers and has nothing to do with quality of diary since it is a breaking news type with little or no analysis. Where the breaking news is nothing more than repeated by a more popular/FP writer and the original poster falls down the list. I’d think it’s everyones’ duty to check the recent posts section before posting the breaking news kind of stuff, especially the FP/director crowd.

            Why add additional overlap repeats and push other diaries down?

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            What makes you think we don’t want our FPers hitting breaking news too, if it can be covered timely and well? The duty is to ensure things that we want hit are hit, not that they’re hit in one particular way. Sometimes that means promoting a good diary, sometimes that means writing a post.

            And again, you seem to misunderstand how things work around here. That’s twice now you’ve made a claim that’s simply not true: first that front page posts were sucking up recommendations, and now that front page posts push down diaries. Front Page posts don’t go on the Member Diaries box. They don’t push down diaries.

            The Front Page of RedState is not just another diary. It’s a different animal: it’s a group weblog. It plays by different rules by design and by necessity.

            You accuse me of not reading your comment. I read it. I just know more about how the site works than you do, and find your fears to be completely ungrounded.

          • Common_Cents
          • Common_Cents

            That may or may not be repeated by FP writers.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            We have a checkbox. It’s the same checkbox that lets us front other people’s stuff.

          • JadedByPolitics

            the breaking news is on the diarist side and sometimes a couple of hours later it is put on the fp by a fpgr as if its fresh and new with NO reference to the diarist who broke it over in the member side, which btw is true and does happen. I tend to link to the member diary in the fp diary to show that someone was already there.

          • lineholder

            I’ve even had someone apologize to me in the past because they didn’t see something “breaking” that I’d put in the regulars diaries.

            I really don’t care that much about this part of it as long it gets the attention needed.

          • JadedByPolitics

            this is the point to me about Redstate, it isn’t about the FPgrs, its about the community, heck, there are way too many Conservative sites (I know I visit a ton every day) and when you see things as small as a community member breaking news on Redstate and then its lifted even unknowingly WE the community see it and it bothers us. The FP of Redstate is lovely, they are fine people but other then Erick and Moe and Neil as far as I am concerned with their “original” reporting with politicians because of their ability and access to speak with them, the rest of it is everywhere on the nets with many different takes on the content. It is the members from all around the Country and their take on some either local or nationwide story that interests me. They are me and I am them and we KNOW what we are taking in is not “crazy” or “different” that millions of other think just as we do, the Community satisfies the soul that we are not alone.

            btw that for me does not encompass “conspiracy” theories but my husband listens to those things and the nuttiness of Jesse Ventura etc, interests him and I love him and will not make him feel to be a nut because it does. I know that a lot of Americans have different idea’s about what is going on and it ALL hearkens back to one thing….THEY DO NOT TRUST THEIR GOVERNMENT! they don’t because the government has not earned the public’s trust in a long time and that hold’s for both parties….that is the real shame here.

          • Common_Cents

            I guess I wasn’t writing clear enough.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            and too often the Front Page stuff buries the lede and requires on to click too many links or watch videos to even know that the subject matter is. I have always found the member diaries to be more accessible based on the titles and first few sentences to know if they are worth my time.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
          • Common_Cents

            There must be a contest to see who can write a diary that is entirely comprised of only references and blue links. Maybe its a game of charades and I have to guess what the topic is.

          • Bill S

            Many of us, myself included, check the member diaries multiple times a day, looking for promotable diaries. In order for them to BE promotable, they not only must be good content (whether that be breaking news or compelling subject matter) but they must also be well-written. They must also be formatted in a way that makes ‘em presentable on the FP … e.g. no Word copy/paste jobs that leave horrible nonstandard fonts and paragraph formatting.

            The problem is usually in composition skills. Many diaries with decent subject matter are simply unreadable…laced with misspellings, bad grammar, incoherent sentence structure, or logic errors. The RS contributors are also editors, and if we have to do too much editing, a diary won’t get promoted.

            There is no vast conspiracy to avoid promotions. In fact, we would LOVE to promote more. But the standards are fairly high. Last night we promoted two diaries in an hour. But sometimes we’ll go days when we don’t see anything promotion-worthy.

            Moral: write good stuff and it will most likely get noticed. Probably not 100% of the time, but more often than not.

          • Common_Cents

            Too far down to line up.

            Conspiracy? please tell me where I mentioned any conspiracy?

            I simply am bringing up the RS community to be aware of what has been posted, especially breaking news, before posting to avoid duplication and give hat tips where they are due. that’s it.

          • Bill S

            Contributors are not out there trolling the diaries for ideas to steal. Just ain’t happening. If there’s a crossover, likely it’s because someone wrote a piece and scheduled it to post and it just happened to cross paths with another diary. Stuff happens.

          • Bill S

            We don’t do “breaking news” posts as a matter of practice. It happens occasionally, but the mission of RS is not to be a news outlet. The site is a source of information for conservative/Republican activism. Sometimes news items are relevant to that mission, but not always. If people want to post “BREAKING!” stuff, that’s fine. But the contributors aren’t out there racing to post on something just as soon as it happens. If someone’s looking for that kind of content, they can go visit Drudge Report.

          • Common_Cents

            Where did I accuse anyone of trolling to steal? I simply said everyone just needs to be respectful of others.

            Where did I say RS is a breaking news site? I was addressing the times when it does post breaking news stuff. Breaking to RS is often just repeating news posted elsewhere to discuss here. Why have it posted multiple times?

            You’ve now implied that I am thinking there is a conspiracy, trolling, and stealing? I don’t really appreciate that.

          • speciallist

            is their belief they can square a circle, unlike ordinary mortals. Their cabals and alliances and mutual admiration are reasonable and fair…the parallels in the membership are ignorant, brutish and contemptible.

            it’s a turn-off

          • lineholder

            is that there could be some relatively “newbies” to politics like myself who will simply choose to post NO diaries rather than leave themselves wide open to this kind of scenario.

            That’s sad, because by presenting information in diary form, they stay involved and they encourage other people to stay involved as well.

            And isn’t that something that RS should be supporting?

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            We don’t want to encourage The Crazy. We want to discourage it.

            People who don’t post The Crazy won’t get called out, and so won’t get discouraged.

          • lineholder

            you and/or others consider to be one of “The Crazies”, will you alert me to this fact or will there simply be censorship?

            I’m being serious, Neil. If lines are to be drawn on this, on what basis will they be drawn? If one of us goes to far in the direction of “crazy”, how will this be addressed? Tell us where the lines are, please. It could prevent this kind of conflict in the future.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Don’t post crazy stuff and you won’t get made fun of for it.

            It’s that simple.

          • lineholder

            Your response is a bit too vague for me at this time. I’ll probably just hang back a while, keep whatever diaries I might have considered to the side until I get a better idea of where actually these lines are drawn.

          • Bill S

            conspiracy theories.

          • lineholder

            is more definitive than “The Crazy”.

            I still think I’ll hold back for a while. It’s obvious at this point that efforts are being made to bring about changes. I can’t say that I agree with the approach that has been taken, but it wasn’t my choice to make either.

            On a scale of 0 to 10, my trust level that the current administration will be genuinely honest in its dealings with the American people is 0. As Erick has said more than once, they can, do and will follow the mentality that the end justifies the means.

            Their own dishonesty, deceitfulness and corruption does deserve to be recognized, but I’m not sure how this can be addressed without leaving myself wide open to the interpretation of “conspiracy theory”.

            That’s pretty much so what I’m trying to determine, and I think time will tell on this matter where the lines are being drawn.

            But thanks, Bill. I do appreciate the definitive.

          • penguin2

            All I can think of is that RS could/should have done if they had so much heartburn about a diarist, that they deal with it offline, or at least off the public page, with good manners and reasonableness.

            Neil, there isn’t any “maybe” involved in my integrity or character as a member of this community. Principles mean a great deal to me, as well as concern for my fellow human beings. I have always tried to live my life along that line, and you, and everyone else here knows that I always look beyond the immediate moment, or comment or even a rough day.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            But we know that there’s horse trading going on, and organized use of the Rec List.

            That you are not part of it does not change that it exists.

          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            Would you care to source that?

            Over on GC’s post Thomas Crown made the same broad assertion, and I pointed out of 24 recco’s there, I’ve never been in private or group conservation of any kind with 17 of them. They’re just names I recognize here as frequent contributors and commenters. Good people all, I assume.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            I’m not throwing my sources to the dogs to tear at.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            is the circumstantial “evidence” that has me accused of what I loudly denounced back when RS got new software and went live against my recommendation with malfunctioning software.

            I write columns and get paid for most. I work long hours on law and politics. I am not into the soap opera here and certainly have not ever been part of any mutual recommend society and in fact have spoken out against the suggestion of same for years and at critical junctures, so it hurts me deeply to find gratuitous accusations of same from the Crown.

            I really don’t know who are the Powers That Be exactly, but I do know that one frontpager has personal knowledge that I have been a vocal opponent of any such groups. Of course, it hurts that he/she has not defended me.

            But life goes on. I’m an issues guy.

            smile

          • redneck_hippie

            to defend you. Truth is your only defense, for those who have eyes and ears.

            That you continue to visit us regularly after being attacked as just a diarist, is a tribute to your character and your worthiness.

            ‘ just a gal

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            fortune are worth it, thanks to folks like you. No crowns of the thomas variety nor whoever that was last year (I forgot…may have been 2 yrs ago…it was soon after I was featured on a PBS special about bloggers) that made it a point to make clear to all that Mike gameock DeVine was only a mere ‘diarist’ at Redstate.

            I wear that moniker with pride.

            God bless you and thanks.

            just Mike “mere diarist” gamecock DeVine

          • redneck_hippie

            cause for as long as I’ve haunted these hallowed halls, you’ve been making my day, many many times. God bless you my friend, and keep you in Le Seuer peas and every good thing on Earth.

          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            and the guest-like nature of people like me and other diarists. A lot are into “community”, but I never came here for that.

            So why go to this much trouble? Why not just get rid of the recco system altogether? Crown had problems with it as well. True, not many will write at all over there, if no one can find them among the dozens posted each day. Penguin was famous for finding good writers and passing their names around. She still does. But why have reccos if you can’t recco people you know and respect? And that is what you seem to call “organized gang recco’s”. You’ve been misinformed on that account, but no matter. It’s just human nature that people do that. There’s no way to mechanical assess people’s motives.

            So just do away with it.

            That just leaves the front page, and no other page. It will be a roll of the dice as to whether there will be a big exodus, but your know the numbers, I don’t. It’s just a business decision, right?

          • Common_Cents

            All diaries are posted anonymously for a period (a day?) so they are recco’d on merit. That would do much to remove any thoughts of auto recco Neil says exists. Just a brainstorm idea.

          • aesthete
          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            …to see you jump in the blood-sport over on LIO’s site. t was a good report, factually supported, but of course, with her usual hyperbole and flourishes. When she is gone we will get none of this news at RS.

            But it goes to prove an axiom written about by Walter van Tilburg Clark…you can even coax a scholar to a lynching. Or did you not know you were in the middle of one?

          • aesthete

            on the Thomas Crown dust-up. My comments on the diary are exclusively related to the various tangents in the diary: here, for instance, I happen to think that making diary submissions anonymous might help with the quality of the reco list, irrespective of LIO’s submission and its popularity.

            I think your suggestion to Neil about eliminating the reco feature is a good one, btw: the purpose that it served in the past has long since expired, and there’s little point to keeping it in its current form.

          • JadedByPolitics

            it is the ONLY reason that Redstate is different from other sites. If no recco and I just want to write a diary, I personally would do so at TMR as would a few others I know….it is seriously the recco’s makes Redstate different. That would be a sad day indeed when/if it goes.

          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            It makes sense.

          • lineholder

            in how things are done, that’s their choice. All they have to do is to post those changes and be done with it.

            The approach that has been taken has generated far more conflict than was necessary.

          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            VB

          • SoFiMil

            I rem

          • SoFiMil

            I remember when ajlmo2 shot up to the top of the reco list and there wasn’t even one comment on his post. There were so many recs I thought it would come in one of the top 10 viewed diaries of the year.

          • janis

            Just throw out some ground beef with Valium tucked inside before you name your sources. All the dogs will eat them and snooze instead.

            Problem solved.

          • Thomas Crown
          • Common_Cents

            when most don’t even post email addresses on profile? Through posted twitter accounts? RS gatherings?

          • JadedByPolitics

            CPAC and Smart Girl Politics and BlogCon, being a member of your GOP ie: The Committeeman/woman project etc., if you are on Twitter and you follow and are followed you can send a private note to that person. I personally have met many people from Redstate who are local or who have went to events I attended and we email each other but there is NO blind reccoing going on, no matter the conspiracy thought that there is. Neil and I had an exchange years ago where I said I read every diary I recco and he said he wished he had the time to read all the diaries.

            Redstate is just the meeting place, life is wonderful beyond “the walls”…LOL!

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Since we’re all pretty much free-market capitalists here (9.5 thank you very much), if someone really needs a recco, I’m available starting at $10 paid to my paypal account.

          • itrytobenice

            ‘Cause you can have me for $4.99 plus $2.00 for shipping and handling. And if you call within the next 20 min, I’ll double recommend it for the same money; just pay an additional sockpupit fee of $2.00.

            This racket could pay better than being a front page contributor. Heh.

          • aesthete

            The business model for a reco business should clearly be subscription based; $29.99 for as many recos as you want for two weeks, $49.99 for a month, and $150.00 for a year. Premium accounts ($200.00 a year) gain access to sock puppet and sycophantic comments features, and being a preferred customer gains one exclusive access to additional features that we’re working on in the lab, such as angry comments in response to posters who respond negatively to your diary.

            No wonder I was blessed with the 10.0 score and mbeck had to settle for the 9.5.

          • Bill S
          • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister
          • itrytobenice

            if you’ll pay cash. ;-)

          • aesthete

            Aesthete’s sycophancy and sock-puppetry knows no peer, and you pay for quality. I’ll probably have to think of more incentives to keep people in the fold, though…

          • itrytobenice

            of a sycophantic commenter and attack comments for a premium price.

            Very impressive capitalistic wisdom. If you’ll turn your talents toward good and not politics, I predict you’ll go far in this world. ;-)

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            one paying customer it pays better than the front page.

    • E Pluribus Unum

      But since you made my business your business, I’ll do the same just this once . Your standards for what you apply your good name to sure did increase dramatically in the span of 10 minutes..

      • Thomas Crown

        In ten minutes, I said Leon was right that you must have brain trauma to suggest a woman is responsible for her own rape; and then I pointed out that this diary is conspiracy-ridden nonsense.

        Both are of equal station.

        • Thomas Crown

          The “you” is indefinite, not aimed at you personally. I have no idea if you agreed with Hoft, and for the sake of our friendship, ask that you not tell me.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            So let our friendship remain safely intact (and yes, I got the indefinite ‘you’ thing, but thanks for the clarification)

            What I think Holt said and what you all hold him to have said, differ by oceans. I read it four times, maybe five. It can be inferred, but it is most certainly not a given that Holt thought she deserved her rape.

            Huge difference (to me) between saying “she made foolish choices which got her gang-raped and nearly killed” and “because of her foolish choices, she deserved to be gang-raped and nearly killed.”

            I disagree with with drawing an inference (that a great many did not agree with, even when told it was there) accusing the man of saying that — a man with a fairly lengthy track record that deserves the benefit of some doubt — and then demanding an apology, from the front page of the most influential right-side blog in America.. Doesn’t work for me.

            I doubt this solves anything, TC, because I would guess we both see what we choose to see from Holt. Neither of us are what one would call persuadable :)

          • Thomas Crown
  • bobmontgomery

    ….is the ‘serious topic’ here? Is it the cold winter in Texas? Is it the misguided honorable intentions of Lisa Jackson? Is it the simultaneous head-nodding by czar and agency and department head? Or is it the power grab of the bureaucracy, the end-run around the law-making bodies, which is nothing new but is being elevated to a weapon of first choice and deadly intent by this administration? Is it the *whole* of the Lady’s diatribe that is totally irrelevant to the “fundamental transformation of America’, or just that Texas part? Are the sequestering of federal lands and the adamant refusals to obey court orders and everything else that a score-and-a-half of the recommenders seem to be concerned about, indeed concerned enough for many of them to comment about – are these things just alternative ways of governing? Is everyone just being too hard on The State here for some crackpot mass delusional reason?
    Again, what is the serious topic here that is so inartfully dealt with? The title says it is an’ assault on our domestic energy’. Do you deny the assault. You have, as far as I have come to note, an eminent position in these halls, so your critique undoubtedly carries a certain import. Surely you do not really compare the concern of a good many RedStaters with the antics of the EPA to a”truther” movement? Please, sir. Indicate for us the proper focus, if you will. I would not know the Lady from Ohio if I saw her on the street, but my gut feeling is that she feels she is serving this community, and it certainly appears from this and other of her postings that she puts a fair amount of effort into it. I am almost certain she would agree to stand corrected or to concentrate more of her effort to port or starboard if you had a constructive suggestion. Please sir. Most of us here just ramble and opine. I think she works at it, and I think you were unfair. If the Obama administration does have a hostility to development of resources, and you think it’s serious, she offers several other items besides Texas, and she did caveat that she didn’t have that one nailed down. If you have the time, sir.

    • Thomas Crown

      As I sit here, I’m trying to figure out whether this is a joke. I mean, you completely missed the point of the Texas thing — she’s eyebrow-waving a conspiracy where there is literally no evidence of such a thing — but I’d like to believe this is a joke, because the alternative suggests too many awful things.

      I’m going to assume it’s not (I apologize) and so provide a sample of the things so egregiously wrong that this lady — whom Google tells me is, of course, a Birther — is clearly not worth the time and effort.

      While we have been distracted with goings-on in the Middle East those in the present administration are wrecking havoc on our domestic fossil fuels and will stop at nothing to cripple our whole energy system. And we know this has been the plan all along. … I am talking about Sunstein, Obama, EPA, Steven Chu (Dept of Energy), Ken Salazar, Soros, Brasil, BOEMRE, Working Families Party, the whole nine yards. Did I leave anyone out?

      We know this? We know that Cass Sunstein and a foreign state not at war with us are trying to “cripple our whole energy system”? President Obama so hates America that he doesn’t want anyone to cook him a hot dog any more? George Soros doesn’t like working light bulbs? I can only assume they’re all doing this on orders of the Illuminati (Bavarian).

      People are going to have to start paying attention and this has to get to the right people who can legislate, go to court, enforce contempt of court rulings, etc. or we

  • streetwise

    We have been having quite a few lately. They are not helpful.

    IMO, there is a conspiratorial tone in this diary, which is not helpful.

    Let’s put it this way, if the left were to seize Saudi Arabia, there would be a sand shortage there in six months. Micro-managing, regulatory orgasms, wrecking foreign policy, wrecking the economy – IT’S WHAT LIBERALS DO. The tactics can be conspiratorial, but the policies are quite out in the open.

    If the GOP had a pulse between 2006 and 2010, there would have been more effective opposition. That is what the Precinct Committeeman and other activist strategies are all about.

    Diarists need the freedom to express themselves on the community portion of the site. That includes the freedom to be wrong. Even a flawed diary can be enormously productive in getting people to think. The readership can separate the wheat and the chaff.

    Finally, for energy expertise, I recommend the esteemed Vladimiir.

    • streetwise

      As state above, I am not a fan of this diary.

      I AM a big fan of Penguin, who is simply one of the best people I have come across in cyberspace, and who was a joy to meet in person at the RS gathering.

      When the Penguins of the world are in distress, RS has approached the point of eating its own. Obamacare will know how to do the rest.

      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
        • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

          I feel better as my favorite verse of Scripture is Revelation 3:16 in which God says he spues the lukewarm out of his mouth and admonishes us to be hot or cold!

          What’s ironic is that I come almost solely for the member diaries as so many of the front page posts bury the lede and require so many link clicks (not your NS, you get to the point, thankfully) to figure out the subject matter, after which reaching I discover its about some juvenile BS that bears little relevance to the advancement of conservatism or the GOP.

          There are only 24 hours in a day after all\ and am bout the business of substance, not fluff. And I love passion. Lady’ got passion and she actually investigates the powers that be that are not on Redstate. I try and look for the good and not concentrate on the bad of my Redstate family.

          Most of my actual blood family is dead and so I try and keep friends.

  • Scope

    Many writers use language in a way to attract readers. We all know that a catchy title draws the reader in to read the entire piece. Perhaps LIO uses sensationalist type rhetoric to draw on the emotions of readers to take the subject seriously, or maybe even to keep the readers attention. I believe most here at Redstate can read a diary and separate the sensationalism from the red meat of the diary. Maybe if LIO dropped the bombastic rhetoric, and concentrated on the facts, the stories would not have a conspiracy type of tone to them. Just a suggestion, as this is the second time LIO has been publically taken to the cleaners in the comments section of her diaries. As to the facts presented, I have read many many other articles, written by various authors, that have all done the same research, and have reported similar facts as to the Obama administration’s assault on the energy industry. It is very foolish to not take what is happening as an assault on all Americans. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

    Speaking of assaults, it is just as egregious to use bombastic rhetoric against any diarist, to resort to name calling, and to question the mental abilities of the diarist, because one believes that the information presented, or the manner in which it has been presented, is nothing more than a bunch of conspiracy theories. I don’t have knowledge of some of the items listed, but, as I said above, I’ve read much the same, over time, from other credible authors. No, I am not refering to Alex Jones, I don’t consider him credible. Often I do do my own homework and research rather than to just take one person’s word for it.

    As to recommending diaries, about 2 1/2 years ago when I first signed up at Redstate, shortly after, there was a front page diary that covered the topic of certain cliques that had developed, mostly between many of the old timers, and it talked about certain people (unnamed of course) who were consistently recommending each other’s diaries, and ignoring the diaries, or at least not recommending one’s written by newer members. You most often saw the same authors on the reco list. I believe some of that still exists today, but not to the extent that it did back then. I’m sure there are thousands more members today.

    I was very happy to read that dhorowitz and RMJ were promoted to front page status. They are both quality writers. Maybe it is just because dhorowitz always seems to write on issues that are important to me, and he presents his case so clearly, I could never understand why his diaries were not on the reco list more often. At least now, both his and RMJ’s diaries will have a chance of making it into the world wide web for all to see. Congratulations to both.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      If you can’t handle disagreement, get a LiveJournal.

      And stretching the truth for the sake of sensationalism is still dishonest.

      • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

        As Thomas mentioned, google shows ties between LIO and the birther movement. People can make mistakes (I’ll be the first to admit that, given our conversation yesterday), but if they have truly had a change of heart, then they disavow their former position and change. In my case, for example, I have switched my party affiliation to R, become active in the party (precinct chairman), been pretty open about how wrongheaded my decisions and beliefs were in the past, and explained this to try and steer others away from those beliefs (libertarianism).

        If an individual has been a vocal birther, then she needs to say that she was wrong, why she was wrong, and then change those behaviors that are similar to birtherism, such as stretching facts, being sensationalistic, etc. These things hurt conservatism, the GOP, and RS.

        I have avoided the conflicts between LIO and the FP guys in the past because LIO seems like a nice lady, and I didn’t want to embarass her.
        http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/21568759

        • Scope

          and there is a very easy simple way to resolve the problem, the blam stick. I really couldn’t care less if Obama was born on the moon, or in my backyard in VA, no one is going to impeach him, or get rid of him in any other way than at the ballot box, period. Obviously I am not a birther, but 51% of those polled recently, believe that he wasn’t born in the US, and 44% of those were Republicans. Of course the Libs grab that poll, and say it is mostly “Tea Partiers” that believe he was born somewhere else, and if they were referring to the Paulies, they would probably be correct. I do believe that Paul, and his cultists are that much of a drag on the Republican party, and they are giving all conservatives a bad name. The Libs don’t differentiate when they talk about the fringe right, and have lumped the entire group of Tea Party supporters in with the fringe right, when only the Paulies, and the libertarian run national groups, are all a part of what is making us look like kooks or dolts. I never considered that LIO was a Paulie, a conspiracy nut, or a libertarian, simply because nothing ever stood out to make me think that. If she is one of those, then again, the blam stick will stop these very nasty comments sections, that are a bad reflection on RS. I mean come on, Penguin getting a wack? To actually say that people recommending a diary would all have been banned? Moral of the story, don’t believe anything you read in a diary unless you go out and do your own research to insure that what you are recommending is 100% accurate, or just stop recommending.

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            …so are birthers. I think that they actually do more damage for a number of reasons, the biggest one being that birtherism smacks of racism to many, especially people who aren’t all that political but do vote (No, I’m not calling birtherism racism or saying that all birthers are racists). But focusing on Obama’s otherness often comes across as focusing on his blackness. Republicans are called racist without cause frequently enough that there’s no reason to invite the charge.

          • Scope

            just not with-it enough. I’ve never even thought about Obama’s race as being a part of the birthers. Huhh, one learns something every day. I’m still not a birther.

    • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

      I met LIO at RS Austin, and again in Vegas. She’s a very nice lady, as you guessed, and if she were a birther it would no doubt show in her diaries here and at her personal site. Yeah, TC can Google where maybe a lot of us were in panic mode seeing who this nation had elected and were willing to seize on anything to make it “go away”. Cooler heads prevailed.

      I think we can agree the current administration is trying to destroy our current energy structure to force us to become “green”. They’re thinking since we won’t simply rush to ride trains that don’t do to our intended destinations because it’s the “right” thing to do, they’ll take away all other options by making them so expensive we can’t go that route.

      We’ve seen the PS Unions are involved in the Mideast unrest (right where the oil flows), the ignoring of the courts in both the energy sector and now healthcare deform – something’s going on. Something sinister, I’ll reckon.

      While I don’t agree with the general tone of her diary, and I think in her angst she failed to tie some things together and just put it out there, she sees it for what it is; a dangerous situation that is fast spiraling out of control. If the courts can be willfully ignored, what’s left? They hoping we’ll riot in the streets?

      If this community still exists as it is by the time of the next gathering, maybe you’ll go, Scope? I say “if” because it does seem to be going through a period of…something I can’t put my finger on…

      • Scope

        and I sure am only to aware of what this O admin. is doing, and, I know that I don’t even know the half of it, or more. We are living in dangerous times, that in all my years, I never thought I’d see in the US. I read alot, on alot of different sites, but, no matter how much you read, you can’t keep up with everything (purposely planned) that this admin. is doing, and to come to Redstate to read research someone has put time into is valuable to me. If I had the time and resources to do all of my own research, I wouldn’t need to read Redstate. That is why I am having the biggest problem with someone saying that anyone who recommended this diary would have been banned, and that the senior members should have known better than to reco it. Was everyone to know that all of the info. contained was not 100% accurate. Is everyone expected to be an energy expert? I rely on Vladimir heavily for the latest and greatest news about the energy sector, but, Vladimir can’t be here all day, every day keeping us all up with the latest news.

        I don’t have plans to attend the RS gathering. My husband is often traveling out of state for his job, and I have to be here to take care of my menagerie of animals. I don’t have any family members to call on for help because literally my husband and animals are the only family I have.

        Yes, there has been something going on here at RS for a while now. It seemed that when the “new tone” plan was implemented everything changed. We now have some rude commentors calling the front pagers liars, and getting only a mild rebuke, while some others, who have known the fear of the blam stick, and have remained respectful, and appreciative of the moderators time, are getting wacked on the head in the comments sections. Penguin???? As EPU said above, that is like a provocation to all commentors. I don’t think there is the first sole here that doesn’t admire and respect Penguin to the utmost. As you said, IF there is a Redstate reunion next year. No one will stick around to see her, and so many other really good people here being disparaged. I’m going to “steo away from the computer” for a little while. Hopefully the nastiness will stop soon.

        • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

          “…there has been something going on here at RS for a while now”. I agree, but it’s not just here at RS. I don’t want to be labeled a “whack job” by my friends, so I’ve stayed silent for a couple months, but evil is on the move. Something is happening, almost a desperation move, like something evil knows it’s in its final days…

          It’s taking me quite some time to put this together here, I’m on the verge of deleting it and moving on.

          Things are polarized nationally, and it’s moving toward the same thing globally. Becoming more defined, less gray and more black and white. More good vs. evil. It’s distressing to a lot of people, like LIO for example, and she knows something bad is coming, but can’t quite put her finger on it. Is Obama the center of evil? No. Soros? No. They don’t even have a clue what’s coming, at least I hope not.

          LIO can be excused for trying to do something, anything to stem the tide, I think.

          What’s happening here at RS is nothing more than pride being used to throw things into disarray. Obviously RS has been noticed as making some inroads into slowing things down, a place where the opposition to the agenda we see moving against our country and everything we believe to be good in this world can meet and discuss. One of many places on the right, RS is unique in that it is a community where diarists are sometimes noticed as much as the front pagers.

          Okay, obviously I still don’t have it together with my ADD to make this coherent, but I’ll let it stand rather than deleting it and going off to do something else. Maybe it’ll strike a chord with someone more together who can make sense of it.

          I’ll just say this; if you pray, pray for everyone here that somehow, we can put all the egos aside and care less about how we appear to outsiders, and more about how we appear to each other.

          • janis

            Your thoughts are exactly what I told penguin the other day. That this is happening world wide, that it is both sides planting their feet squarely– good vs. evil. You see it in governments, business, communities and, yes, here, too.

            Thank you for saying this.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            …but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

            Just paraphrasing your vital point, Erick.

            And yes, I would agree heartily that we are in one of those constricting times, when history is being forced through the neck of a bottle, where that polarization and separation between good and evil is accentuated, a season for winnowing the wheat from the chaff.

          • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

            When I have a computer problem, someone else has it too, just need to figure out who, and do what they did.

            So…what do we do, guys? I know RS is a place where conservatives can gather, regardless of faith or lack thereof, so “putting it out there” entails certain…risks.

            I’m just sayin’…if you’re the praying sort, we need more than bloggers and Precinct Committeemen, although those are fine in the grand scheme, seems something more needs pushing. Somehow.

  • Caleb Howe

    I know for A FACT!! that Truman is on a TV show and his world isn’t real. Also I know FOR A FACT!!! that the answer is TASTES GREAT, not LESS FILLING! I ALSO knOW FOr A fAcT how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop. Let me hit you with some knowledge; FACT: Ia?i was the last capital of the principality of Moldavia. FACT: Does this make me look fat? FACT: -noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: FACT: I had to show them on the doll where speciallist touched me. FACT: all of this is definitely the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • speciallist

      and I wouldn’t have to ‘go there’….

      • Caleb Howe

        I will relinquish The Future from the confines of my skinny jeans. Someone get me a young priest and an old priest.
        – c

        • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

          I hate guys who wear skinny jeans. It’s like they’re wearing their gay on their sleeve, and it’s, like, totally unnecessary.

          JUST BE YOU, Caleb. Just be you. #NOH8 here <3

          • Caleb Howe

            Are they literally just thinner jeans? How is that a “thing”? They’re just jeans right? Chicks have been wearing tight jeans for years (thank goodness). How are these different?

            Amy, please provide me a heavily researched dissertation on skinny jeans STAT! IT’S VERUH IMPORTANT TO TEH INTERNET!!!

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            I always assumed that “skinny jeans” were jeans with specially narrower legs proportionate to the waist.

          • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

            …so here’s a video of a hamster on a piano:

            http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/158f20e44d/hamster-on-a-piano-eating-popcorn-from-that-happened

            WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

  • Aaron Gardner
    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      do it all. Everyone has varied talents. I don’t see the need for gratuitous attacks and am not accusing you my friend. But to many here seem to have been picked on a lot as children and enjoy the “power’ of anonymity and/or distance from which to throw jabs.

      Me, I was a bully for awhile and then was guilt stricken thanks to my Baptist raising and became the tough guy that defends those that got bullied, first out of the courtroom, then in the courtroom and now both!

      smile

      • Aaron Gardner
        • Common_Cents
        • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
    • aesthete
    • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

      Aaron…yes. In fact, TWO chalkboards. With a little tack strip for pictures of Soros and Rahm Emanuel.

      Hopefully I can keep the brownshirts at bay while this is transmitting…I’m pretty sure I heard black helicopters swarming a few minutes ago.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
    • Bill S

      The answer is high-speed rail.

      • aesthete

        increased funding for InfrastructureEducationAndResearch.

      • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

        …and managed by the U.S. Postal Service. What could go wrong?

        Desperately trying to find some humor while navigating the radioactive rubble that is RedState this morning, looking to find refuge.

        • aesthete
  • runner12

    I really have no “skin in the game,” so to speak. But it seems that this diary cites a lot of events without connecting the dots. If you are going to make a shocking allegation, your facts must be logical and impeccable. Otherwise, you open yourself up to all sorts of criticism. If what you are saying is controversial, your evidence must be iron-clad.

    There are many things that this Adminstration is doing right now that violates the Constitution, By chasing rabbits, it can actually be counterproductive. Our focus should be on standing with WI right now and drawing a line in the sand, not rattling off conspiracy theories. We must be credible and factual if we are to win over the American people to our side.

    This is not personal to the diarist, she has written some fairly good pieces before. But this was simply not one of them.

    • texasgalt

      What are you going to do, put your boots on the ground up there? Are you going to write a strongly worded letter to the union thugs? Are you going to write a diary here? Make sure you have every t crossed or you might get the LIO beat-down.

      Skip all that and just watch for the flashing red light, or the next FP emergency call to the phones or the next money bomb. That’s your job here, that and piling on.

      • runner12

        And quite personal, too. This must anger you quite a bit, because I have never seen you to post anything rude or unkind like this to anyone

        Listen, I don’t like the way that LIO was attacked, that is why I attempted to provide a toned down critique. Just because someone writes a poor piece does not mean that he/she is a bad writer, it just means that they have room for improvement.

        I actually did write a diary here, but I don’t get to write as much as I would like to. I have a very demanding job and quite frankly, I am not as talented of a writer as some people here and it takes me more time than most to put together a quality diary.

        Oh and yes, I did send an e-mail to Gov. Walker encouraging him to stand firm. It isn’t much, but it was something. My point was only to call for unity and not back-biting. We have bigger fish to fry.

  • Leon H. Wolf

    • aesthete
    • Bill S
    • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

      I can sort of understand the lack of Bilderbergers and Tri-lats, but you failed to include the Elders of Zion. Puh-lease. Maybe you read that they’re retiring?

      • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

        Also, no Tyler Durden, no Project Mayhem. I’m disappointed.

        • texasgalt

          Careful you don’t go Jake Spoon on us.

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            My son is named after Augustus McCrae. That would put him an awkward position, to say the least.

  • Common_Cents

    Can anyone here say Obama really loves America and puts America first? And that Obama is just another politician, agree or disagree with his policies?

    I’m curious how many people on RS just think of him that way.

    • ocleverone
    • Bill S

      “has good intentions” and “loves America and puts America first” are not necessarily the same in the eyes of a liberal. I think that, within his world view, Obama certainly DOES have “good intentions”. I think he is trying to shape the nation to match his vision, which HE believes is a “good intention”. I do NOT believe that that “good intention” necessarily means “putting America first.” This is a man who is a staunch supporter of world government and the U.N. And he (and a lot of Leftists) think THAT is good for America.

      You have to look at Obama and the Left’s intents through their lenses, not ours, if you are trying to divine “intent”. They have the best of intents – but they don’t match ours one bit.

      • aesthete
      • Common_Cents

        Sheesh, you could argue that Dahmer had good intentions according to his views too. Especially in the context of this diary discussion with conspiracy accusations.

        I think you know what I am driving at but I’ll try to make it more specific.

        Does Obama put America first, do you believe he has good intentions for America, not according to what he believes. I am asking in terms of your average America loving, respecting American.

        I asked what YOU (plural) think, not what obama thinks.

        is everyone an attorney here? nobody can answer a question straight away.

        • Flagstaff

          his own actions prove he is trying to put something over on us.* That in itself is conduct unbecoming a President, contradicts “good intentions” and surely does not put America first.

          Straight enough?

          *We just don’t know for sure what it is.

  • hoosierteacher

    I rec’d this diary. I did not do so because i buy into the conspiratal nature of the diary. I don’t.

    However, I thought the several bullet points, when taken seperately, are helpful to learning about the broad nature of Obama’s reach over energy policy.

    Let’s face it, the guy has ignored court rulings regarding the issue of re-allowing drilling in the Mexican Gulf, took over GM (and other assorted companies / banks), and is trying to take over the health care industry. I don’t think there is some smoke filled room conspiracy here, nor is there some silly Bliderburg or reptillian conspiracy afoot. The bottom line is that Obama is a socialist at best, communist at worst, and wants the government in charge of everything. This includes energy. Right? Don’t we all realize that? If we don’t, we’re trying to play too nice with the other side.

    Obama isn’t coy about it either. He attended an anti-American church for years, was friends with a known terrorist (Ayers), and has done little to distance himself from the notion that he believes in a centralized government run by bureaucrats and unions.

    Is there a lot of (or failure to) connect the dots going on in this diary? Sure. But are several of the facts about Obama’s actions problematic for Americans regarding his actions in the energy sector and elsewhere? Of course.

    It is only my own opinion, but I doubt that many of the recommends on this diary are people who buy into the conspiracy angle. (And shame on some of the staff and former staff that would assume so. Creating a rift between the readers of the site and the readers is a poor way to keep a “grass roots” label. Shame too on the readers who think the site really belongs to the readers; the site became company controlled years ago, and it is no longer the privledge of members to try to dictate how the site should be run, nor should it be).

    Everyone should just cool down. If you are offended that the diary has so many recs, go write your own diary (or front page post). If you ARE a conspiracy nut trying to defend the diary, your thoughts aren’t helpful either.

    And let’s drop the silly accusations that folks are making.

    Do the staff work together to determine what’s good enough or isn’t to make the front page? So what if they do? It is their site.

    Do some readers just rec each other to be buddies? Who cares if they do? Everyone has a different standard for rec’cing.

    Do people try to bait trolls so they can ban them? So what if they do? If someone is a troll, or they take the bait, who cares? I may think the “bam stick” gets used way too much, but it isn’t my site and I don’t make the rules.

    I don’t even like the staff picking and choosing which primary candidates are worthy or not (the O’Donnell thing was embarassing, as was misreading the support for Coats in Indiana), but it isn’t my site.

    Do several front page posts go up right after a member publishes a diary on the exact same topic? Who cares? It happens the other direction too. Are people supposed to not post on something because another post went up already on the same topic?

    The site greatly dissapoints me at times, and (to me) seems to have become more about a very few personalities than being the community it once once. But that’s only the negative side. On the positive side, the site retains the pro-life requirement for front page posters, has terrific stories on the front page, and has made a positive dent in the political landscape by being the prime conservative voice in the blogosphere.

    I have my gripes, but then again, who cares? I come here because the site staff lets me, and I enjoy reading what others have to say. I don’t put up as much material as I did years ago (I can’t even find my oldest stories archived), but I’m here because this is the best community I’ve found for conservatives. The price of keeping idiots away (Paul supporters, people who make threats, and people who attack others with lewd language) is that we can be so vigilant that we attack each other. The staff does the best that they can, and I don’t expect that I could do any better.

    Let’s all just take a deep breath, not wage war on the site, go rec Gamecock, and put in a few dollars and hours on behalf of a candidate you believe in in honor of RedState.

    Sheesh people!

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      We used to be able to use it to find good posts to promote. Now we often can’t, because it’s so incestuously recommended that conspiracy theories can hit the top.

      • speciallist

        ?

        • Flagstaff

          conspiracy theories. Hmmmm….

          But I can appreciate Neil’s problem.

      • hoosierteacher

        But nobody is bussing in the folks who rec this stuff. These are your readers / members, and their standards will be different amongst themselves.

        If you are going to allow recs, people are going to use them. It would be elitist to think that those recs will always represent the standards of the staff. If those posts where always up to your standards, those people would already be front page posters.

        To me, a rec does NOT mean the story is front page material. I may rec because I learned something, or because I agree, or because the post is something I want others to see and read because it is worth discussion, or because the writing IS good. Sometimes it is one reason or another.

        But with the greatest respect (and I mean it very much, because I respect you and your leadership at the site), it isn’t helpful to be critical of your own readers or members because they promote material that you don’t like. You should rightly chime in with your thoughts on an article, but don’t claim that your members are incestuously recommending articles. It comes across like so many of our senators who piously dismiss the tea party movement, claiming that we lowly voters don’t truly understand the importance of earmarks.

        Accept that your members aren’t always going to rec things the way you want them rec’d. Then remember that you love us because we come to your site. I recall a post that received a lot of recs that was outright “blammed” once. I didn’t have a problem with that, because (once again) it is at the discretion of the site as to what is acceptable on the site. But if an article isn’t offensive enough to be blammed, the readers are going to rec what fancies them.

        Unfortunately Neil, you may have to widen your search outside of the recs. Or don’t promote to the front page at all.

        Btw, does it bother anyone besides me that an indiviual member’s diary has to be sponsored by a company (Stansberry) that is ITSELF a conspiracy nut company? They have been fined and sanctioned before, and their advertising is embarrassing (warning of the apocolypse unless you listen to an infomercial that then requires you to buy their newsletter). I have some excellent sources on Stansberry’s history if you are interested Neil. Aside from his good work with conservative groups, he’s a nut case and has a shady history. It isn’t my site, but I hate having my diaries end with “sponsored by” and having it be associated with Stansberry Reasearch Associates.

        • aesthete

          They sponsor the “who”. This has degraded the quality of the reco list for some time, IMO.

          • hoosierteacher

            Even if they did, it would be their perogative. But I just don’t see people posting “I’ll rec yours if you rec mine”. Unless you have evidence of it, it sounds like another conspiracy theory to me, and very unhelpful.

            And I say this as a person who gives very few, gets very few rec’s. Rec’s just aren’t that important in the scheme of things. If a FP editor uses it as a tool to find good stories, he’s limiting himself. Frankly, I think there are more than enough excellent front page writers, and several good posters among the membership (and several democrats making fools of themselves in public) that RedState won’y suffer for a lack of front page stories.

            The bottom line is, an awful lot of people liked this story for one reason or another, and an awful lot didn’t. Those that don’t seem to have a problem with the lack of an “I don’t like” button at the end of a diary. That would make interesting!

          • speciallist

            absolute rubbish

          • aesthete

            I don’t think that it is coordinated, but if you think that the 5+ recos that a diary from a popular contributor before the diary is up for 3 minutes are an impartial mark of quality, you’re mistaken.

          • speciallist

            if you think the Rec list is ‘degraded’…wow, you’re mistaken

            I think a few folks would have a problem with that

          • hoosierteacher

            I’ve made comments on this site, and had several responses in a matter of minutes. Does that mean that people are conspiring to answer me? Of course not.

            It means that the most recent member diary (which is on top) is the first one read when people get to the site and read a member diary. It attracts even more attention if it is from a popular writer. It gets even more recs when it gets elevated to the rec’d list.

            I write a post very rarely, and it rarely gets more than a couple of recs. I’m not out to win a popularity contest, and my goal is not the front page. RS can be a good place to discuss issues (when we don’t have the ridiculous infighting that we have).

            But blaming popular posters because there work is appreciated is just foolish. You say it isn’t coordinated, but then (in the same sentence) you imply that it is.

            If you want the same recs that some other folks get, write good material and do it often. Or you can be like most of us, and just fire off a diary when something is on your mind. But don’t get jealous and blame people for rec’ing based on some laughable notion of people ganging up to include some writers and (perhaps) to exclude others.

            (Btw, I don’t believe I’ve ever rec’d a ladyimpachtohio post before, nor she mine).

          • aesthete

            except that it seems to me that people mindlessly click and recommend based on the author of the piece, and not the piece itself. My evidence for this is the presence of multiple recommends on a piece that would take me (and I’m a speed-reader) 10-15 minutes to read and digest within the 3 minutes that it is up. I get that a lot of people like the camaraderie that develops on RS, that they want to support their friends in the way that they can, and that recommends are a way to do that. I also think that this tendency degrades the quality of the recommend list, and makes the community more insular.

            But hey, the best way to deal with that problem is probably to ignore the reco list, not draw attention to it.

          • aesthete

            I’m not at all jealous. I rarely write diaries, and those few that I have written I wrote because there was a perspective or issue that had yet to be explored on a given issue: niche diaries, if you will. (I wrote one on Puerto Rican statehood from my perspective as a Puerto Rican, for instance: not something that is close to many conservatives’ hearts.) I do not expect mass appeal for niche diaries; I just want for diaries to be based on merit, and not on the personality of the writer.

          • hoosierteacher

            First you write that you aren’t implying anything, and then you add the big “EXCEPT” part.

            Again, you don’t like whom or what gets promoted to the rec list, so you comfort yourself by stating that people are “mindlessly” clicking based on the author.

            And I don’t know about your speed reading skills. I am NOT a speed reader, but I read and digest most stories in about two minutes, perhaps because most of my work and leisure pertains to reading. I read and rec’d the current diary in probably 2 to 3 minutes (and again, I don’t believe I’ve ever rec’d her before and she’s not rec’d me).

            If this diary posting took you about 15 minutes, I think you should get your speed reading money back.

            : )

          • aesthete

            This, and other diaries, are not really the direct targets of my critique. The thought process that goes into a recommend is, and has led to a lower caliber reco list, IMO. My evidence for my belief that such a thought process is extant is the recos given to diaries in the past that are too long to have been read and digested by the recommender. This conversation was really much longer than I expected it to be when I wrote the comment above, though.

      • Flagstaff

        I didn’t even realize this was a conspiracy theory essay. I thought it was about all the things associated with Obamic energy policy that LIO doesn’t think are good.

        I always think of a conspiracy as a group of independent agents coming together to do something on the sly. All that stuff she mentioned is being done out in the open by the administration, ostensibly under the control of President O. That’s not a conspiracy, it’s an action plan.

        I’ll try to read it again more carefully but my eyes are getting dry and glassy as it is.

        OK. There are references to George Soros and some other non-administration actors. Still, it can’t be a conspiracy, because it doesn’t include Dick Cheney. And is it a conspiracy if everyone is working for George Soros instead of President O?

    • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

      http://archive.redstate.com/content/3013

      At least I think this is what you’re looking for

      • hoosierteacher

        It wasn’t in my diary profile. Thanks!

        I also appreciate the link on that page for Confirm Them. I thought that site had dissapeared!

        • hoosierteacher

          How did you find it? Outside of your link, how does one go to the archives and get their own material? My “my diaries” button doesnt bring up posts that old.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

            The current site is version 3.0 (I think)

            The archive is of the former RedState site (2.0?), the content of which was left in place, but there is no direct link from the current site to that one.

            In general, you can access the site by substituting “archive” for “www” in the web address.

            If you want to go to your main profile page (or any other member’s), you would type in

            http://archive.redstate.com/user/NAME

            The other path to the archive file would to use the RedState search program for your name, and some of the items should be from the archive site.

            Neil Stevens I expect accurately knows the details.

          • hoosierteacher

            I appreciate it!

          • Scope

            Several months ago, I got an email saying that I attempted to change my password, which I had never done. It took me awhile to get a response from RS despite many requests for an explanation, because I never made that request. I finally did get a response that it was a glitch in the software, I’ll let it there. I did a little research into the websites that are listed at the bottom of the page, while waiting for my very slow dial up connection to load, and I looked into that software being used. If RS did opt for the add on packages with some of those tracking software packages, and I don’t know if they did or not, they know where you go, how much time is spent there, what you clicked on, and many other parameters can be tracked. I have to wonder if the “I know for a fact” isn’t proof within the tracking system. Man I know I am on thin water with posting this, but, it has been interesting to see the “I know for a fact” comments today.

          • nilram

            I kinda doubt that the administration here is tracking the readers that closely. I don’t think they have the horsepower to do it. RS2.0 DID track what you read. It was actually nice. You’d click on a diary and all the new comments would be marked “new” so you could search for the term new and catch every comment. (It seems RS1.0 was even nicer but it’s been so long I’ve forgotten the details). When RS3.0 was launched, I think I remember the reason for this being removed was because the hardware simply couldn’t handle it.

            Besides, if you are really worried about being tracked, don’t log in just read. Only log in to post. You could even go a step farther and turn off your cookies. If you want to go much farther than that though, I think you’ll be stuck with a tin foil hat. :)

  • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

    First of all, none of the attacks on this diary were unwarranted. This diary *earned* those attacks. End of story. Get over it., or get off the internet and go play outside.

    Second, this garbage about a RedState Management conspiracy against the unwashed masses in the diaries has got to stop. Disagreement is not censorship. Not promoting a diary to the hallowed freaking front page is not censorship. Equating a diary to a fecal fingerpainting of Glenn Beck is not censorship. You know what *is* censorship? CENSORSHIP! LIO has written several diaries that have rightfully drawn the ire of the management, and she’s still here. Not censorship, no matter how badly you want it to be, or how viciously you hate the contrib who spoke up.

    Third…It’s getting unhinged in here. Us vs. the management? Really? Shouldn’t it be all of us vs. the left? We’ve got to get our sh*t together, people, and the getting together of the sh*t does not include accepting every theory our friends come up with as the gospel. You can gripe and accuse and lament over the lack of civility all you want, but at the end of the day, you’re still going to be the person who went to the mattresses over something that never should have gotten attention to begin with.

    • speciallist

      everyone’s got some, but they don’t always fit

      • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

        …and I’m not freaking having it.

    • bobmontgomery

      Secondly, it* is* US vs. the left, to which end LIO, whatever her faults, was pointing. Again, it was Thomas Crown who pleaded we should not go to hard on George Soros, or Cass Sunstein, or by extension, Bill Ayers, Van Jones and all the rest of the beautiful people. What are these – conservatives? We should all just not do too much talking and quit listening to Rush Limbaugh and let Mitch McConnel and Barack Obama sort this all out?

      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

        It may be fashionable but drugs are bad, mmkay?

        • bobmontgomery

          I gave up dope probably before you were born.I don’t begrudge you young people having a good time, but For the record, I am not a druggie or a birther or a truther or a Libertarian or an anarchist, not that it’s important. What is important is that I am far from the only one being made fun of here today. If you think it’s really necessary, then by all means.

      • Thomas Crown
      • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

        You can point whichever way you want, but there is a good way to go about it, and a bad way to go about it.

        T Crown isn’t telling “us” (though I hesitate to be thrown in with the “us” at this point) to stop talking…he’s telling LIO to reevaluate a few things.

        Also, where did Rush Limbaugh come into this?

        • bobmontgomery

          …is for TC to call LIO an autoerotic insane birther? As you may or may not recall, Thomas Crown’s president told us we needed to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. Context, Ms Miller. TC called LIO an insane birther apparently because …….she was writing about EPA regulations, Department of the Interior edicts and federal court rulings. TC is still enraged that the diary, which talked about EPA regulations, Department of the Interior edicts, and federal court rulings, as well as bans on gas exploration in New York and other anti-energy initiatives, was not burned by Red State’s moderators.. TC wants the diary banned. Not one call in the diary for the O’s birth certificate. Gee, Ms Miller, what’s left for us to talk about, the value of pi? We know, just forget all about the “necessarily skyrocket” stuff and concentrate on getting Fred Upton in there as chair of Energy and Commerce, right Ms. Miller?
          Moreover, getting our* sh– * together doesn’t require squelching of frank or even speculative discussion of issues, And all of the people who recommended the diary on the basis of its expose’ of EPA or other issues did not thereby indicate “acceptance” of any wild theories. That is a false presumption.

          • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

            That was…a lot of words.

    • lineholder

      in this entire thread that mentioned the word “censor”, I’ll apologize for it if it insulted you. I was attempting to get a definition as to where the lines are to be drawn.

      Attempting to address the dishonesty, deceitfulness and corruption that we are up against isn’t easy to do. It doesn’t take much for it to come across in the vein of “conspiracy theory”. From what I can gather at this point, even though it hasn’t specifically stated, is that management would prefer that we find another way to address these kinds of issues?

      If that is the choice that is being made, that’s fine. I’m just the kind of person who would rather have it said honestly than to see it turned into a 3-ring-circus of conflict.

      • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

        …I would assume the management would rather not have RedState represented by conspiracy theories via the rec list.

    • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

      Though I must say that at this point of the game, clearing the field of rubble certainly has a lot to recommend over further debate about how to rearrange the debris.

      What I don’t know is how to prevent the next detonation. Is there someone in the house skilled in deactivating land mines? That should be the priority now.

      • texasgalt

        There’s ever more folks ready to pile on. Some people enjoy flame wars and like to be mean and snarky. Some of them have even admitted that right here on RS.

        Some people can make unproven assertions by connecting the dots, receive lots of rec’s and be really kool.

        http://www.redstate.com/amymiller/2010/06/23/flame-wars/

        • http://amymillervrwc.wordpress.com/ Amy Miller

          How much time did you waste finding my mistake?

          You are such a BFD…and for the record, I fixed that post elsewhere, but neglected to add the link backing up my assertion here.

          Whoops! Must be some sort of conspiracy against intellectual integrity.

  • bobmontgomery

    So, has Thomas crept away into the night, having quieted all the hothead firebrands here at ……RED State? Was that his mission? Who knows. The curious part of the whole episode is that he had to put an exclamation point on his denunciation of conspiracy theorists by conjuring up a ….conspiracy theory…..among RedStaters. Curioser still in in light of the fact that *LIO’s diary was up for two days and proceeded to the top of the charts with nary a discouraging word*, from member of management, until the exasperated Thomas could contain himself no more. At which time, sporadic snickering broke out among the anti-conspiracy theory buffs, complete with jokes and charts and graphs. Oh, that we were all so hip , glib and ….triumphant?
    Conspiracy theory? You make the call.
    Crown made a point of calling LIO an insane birther, while commenting on a diary she made about agenda-driven government regulators and lawless expropriation of the public’s access to needed energy sources. I detected no birther sentiment in the diary. And more, when Crown said she had taken a serious subject and turned it into a conspiracy theory, I felt compelled( in a stand-alone comment at 12:49 a.m.) to ask him to kindly explain his concept of the serious situation and to helpfully steer LIO, and the rest of us idiots, in the right direction. *He gave the Nancy Pelosi response – “Are you freaking kidding me? This is a joke, right?” * But he went beyond that. He said that if I wasn’t joking (pay attention here) *the alternative suggests too many awful things* I can only imagine what darkness Thomas Crown imagines must be in my heart if indeed I am not joking by asking what was so wrong with LIO’s diary. You want to talk about insane garbage? Conspiracy theory?
    In addition to pointing to conspiracy theories to trash conspiracy theories, Crown also bites his nose in another revealing riposte – after accusing LIO of “autoeroticism”, he then, in response to another commenter, goes on to boast of the good old days when he banished unfavored commentators with barely the flick of his hand and a ten-page dissertation. Isn’t that swell! Autoeroticism? You make the call.
    I’m sure the floor is yours whenever you want it, Thomas.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      Is there a comment in all that rambling?

    • Thomas Crown

      So, has Thomas crept away into the night, having quieted all the hothead firebrands here at

  • bobmontgomery

    , absolutely nothing, was said against the diary by the rabble *or* by mangement, until you came along and couldn’t believe they hadn’t banished it. Thirty plus people, plus management, *couldn’t see the problems with what she wrote* and are moronic tin-foil-hat wearers unless they repent and agree to condemn the “autoerotic insane birther” and her diary and the horse she rode in on. Well, Thomas, the worst possible outcome would be for conservatism to be given a bad name, wouldn’t it? Why, some might think we’re a mean-spirited bunch given to name-calling and character assassination……….and your President undoubtedly thanks you for putting the moronic tinfoil hat-wearing insane autoerotic birthers in their place. Well, done, Thomas. You’re the best. But then, you knew that.

    • Thomas Crown

      As is yours. Deal with it.

      • acat

        Two possible ways to deal with the current president.

        Beer – the option most often chosen during Carter’s term.
        Tea – the option I’m hoping is more chosen this go’round.

        Yes, he’s my president. Whether I voted for him or not. Whether he’s legally entitled to be or not, in fact. If for no other reason, then because the Supremes have, thus far, declined to kick that particular wasps nest.

        I hope to have a different one in 2012.

        Mew

        • hoosierteacher

          I found this linked by drudge:

          http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=264897

          I don’t think the matter will go anywhere. The guy was elected, and we as a nation never seemed to care if people are elected where they are from anyway (as in Clinton as a NY senator). It sounds like sour grapes to fight the issue after he’s been elected.

          I’m not taking sides in the matter. A recent poll shows that most republicans have their doubts about Obama’s birth, and the lack of an actual certificate is disturbing (certificates of live birth, which Obama released, are given to births outside of Hawaii). I also favor the rule of law. The problem is that I don’t think people like to consider matters that disqualify a person for office once the majority has spoken.

          I think its a matter best ignored. We can beat Obama in 2012 based on his takeover of health care, his ruinous economy, and his latest assualt on Wisconsin’s taxpayers in favor of some overpaid union thugs who can’t even get their students to pass high school.

          • acat

            and America continue its’ record of peaceful, unfought revolutions.

            Since I don’t expect Obama to be on the general ballot in 2012, having the Supremes throw some mud in the water is not surprising.

            Mew

          • hoosierteacher

            Why not? I can’t stand the guy, but I don’t see him getting primaried either. His party won’t challenge him from the center. Heck, even Carter was primaried from the left (Kennedy).

            As to peaceful, we’re seeing where any threat of violent overthrow comes from. Prostesters in WI (who are also posting home addresses of legislators), protests on the lawns of private homes, and the liberal use of Hitler comparisions.

            Somehow, you and I are missing the right wing, Christian violence here.

            : )

          • acat

            The fundamentals of the economy remain broken. There are still no green shoots, for a variety of reasons discussed around Red State and elsewhere.

            Because of that, because “It’s the economy, stupid!”, Obama will have negative coattails – that is, his presence at the top of the ticket will make the election a referendum on him.

            There are more Dem senators up in 2012 than Repubs, by a pretty good margin. Further, there are still some Dems (and RINOs) in the House from districts that should be more red than they are… and some Governors races, and statehouse races.

            I’m not sure that the Dems will do a walk from the Capitol to 1600 and demand he not run, but .. the rest of the party will want Obama off the ticket… and I suspect that they’ll find a way to make it stick.

            Mew

          • hoosierteacher

            Even if it was a boring year in 2012, there are several seats set to switch to the republicans in the senate. In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and predict that even if the dems somehow have a great year in 2012 (after the 1994 GOP revolution nobody expected Bob Dole to get trounced in 2006) I would STILL predict that the GOP picks up seats in the senate.

            As for the house, it is a fickle thing subject to winds. Voters are notorious for short memories, which is the reason the dems still exist as a party.

            But the presidency is different. Even after Clinton’s fiascos in ’93 and ’94, nobody dared to challenge him. He was governing as a democrat, and got killed on DADT and trying to take over health care. But Obama delivered for his constituents, and he’ll keep his base.

            If dems have been betrayed by Obama, it is because he hasn’t closed Gitmo and stopped the two war fronts in Afg and Iraq. The party still hasn’t left him on that account either. Notice how Code Pink and all the other anti-war protesters shut the hell up when their president is running the war? It is because the real movement behind “anti-war” has nothing to do with war or peace; its all about an excuse for left wing zealots to protest American presidents who govern from the right of center. If the anti-war movement was legit, they’d still be out there garnering all kinds of news coverage.

            So his base is intact. He may lose the election, but his base still backs him. (If you think Obamacare made a difference in his primary standings, think again. The democrats that supported Obamacare in purple or red districts lost their jobs. Senators had a chance to vote against Obamacare again this month, and the dem senators STILL voted for it. Some will and are retiring, and the remaining house and senate members that are dems are too hard core and all-in to ditch Obamacare and Obama at this point).

            Just my thinking.

          • acat

            But I will say that the coalition that led to Obama’s win in the 2008 election cannot be repeated… and that fact is going to become more and more obvious.

            Mew

          • hoosierteacher

            ..included independents, as well as conservatives that stayed home because McCain was pro-illegal immigration, wasn’t good on taxes (though he was good on spending), was half of McCain//Feingold, and part of the gang of 14. But that was the GENERAL election.

            Obama’s coaliton for the PRIMARY isn’t fractured, at least as far as I can see.

          • acat

            The Dems don’t appear to “do” primaries the same way the GOP does them.

            Remember all the debate over the Dem “superdelegates” that were supposed to be able to give Hillary the nomination? Reminded me of another tradition of Chicago politics – the smoke-filled room where all the ward bosses who matter gather to pick the next candidates. Only after that did they hold the primary.

            My point is, if the Dems decide that, for their survival, they need him off the ballot, he’ll be off the ballot.

            Mew

          • hoosierteacher

            …and you’ll find a diary that I did “DingDong the Witch is Dead”, where I predicted that Hillary was dead in the water well before the primaries. I’m pretty familiar with the national primary mechanics for each party, though I’m much stronger with predicting senate races.

            I’m rather proud of being right on that Hillary thing, though the country would have been better off without Obama.

            : )

          • acat

            And I’ll agree that Obama’s base still exists and still is strong .. but. The coalition that put him in office in the general doesn’t.

            Point your Senate predictions at all the Dems up in 2012 and tell me why you see them permitting a drag – negative-coattails – at the top of the ticket when they’re fighting for their lives.

            Mew

          • hoosierteacher

            You say:

            “And I

          • renny

            automatically now–mention him on some campuses and you can get boos from those who know jobs are not waiting for them– or all that enthusiasm that sent thousands to register illegally in Ohio, or even the automatic academic vote,

            He has the leftover 60s crowd, the lefty bloggers who don make up many ind. votes. and minorities, who, unfortunately can skew city votes and impact the states.Unions will stay with him until death.

            But in a general election, Dems. need more than the base on the national election, and Obama was elected by independents, crossover Republicans who thought the first black president was a good idea, and those who stayed home for lack of motivation to vote for McCain.

          • Scope

            Obama, and his administration actually “own” the young and college age people. Do you think that the colleges have suddenly turned against socialism or worse. If they have, that’s a dream I would like to have. Look at the faces of the protesters that are out there supporting his “cause.” Look at the faces that are protesting in WI at this time. I think you just might be mistaken.

          • Thomas Crown

            They’re just doing what they do for all petitions for cert and motions for reconsideration, as in, every single one. This will be denied as the others were.

            WND is a buyers-beware label.

          • hoosierteacher

            I know we have some (bitter differences). But I’m not aware of the procedure invloved in petitions for cert. I’m also not a reader of WND, so I appreciate the warning and accept it.

          • lineholder

            and thank you as well.

    • bobmontgomery

      This was reply to Thomas Crown above. The heat of passion causes us to do and say terrible things, and to forget to push the reply button.

    • Read Chesterton

      Why, some might think we

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    You’re in the middle of a lynching. Mr Crown is Jack Palance in Shane. Don’t try to be Alan Ladd.

    • http://snarkandboobs.wordpress.com/ Lori Ziganto

      I already knew that you aren’t nearly half as clever as you think you are, but that is beyond the pale.

      Furthermore, if that’s really what you believe, you know where the door is. Wouldn’t want to associate with ‘lynchers’, I’m sure.

      • speciallist

        about the comments of Mr Crown?

    • lineholder

      the underlying issue is that management of RS would rather that we change our tone and reduce or eliminate some of the “conspiracy theory” context because of the impression that it gives to people about this site when they come here and see diaries with this kind of tone at the top of the readers’ list.

      I think I can understand where they are coming from, because there is a point where we can put too much emphasis on this. I just wish they had approached it honestly by asking us to be more consciously aware of this rather than have it turn into what is has become.

      Tomorrow is another day and hopefully it will be a better one, heh?

      • Scope

        will you please explain just exactly what “conspiracy theories” were in the diary? The one comment that was a poor choice by LIO was the Detention Camp comment. That was a bad comment. However, can you explain what the conspiracy theory is in the diary. I’m not denying that there may have been some, but I want to know what it is.

        The change in tone actually happened a good while ago, not just recently. We now have Paulies posting such garbage it is laughable, but, they are not banned for their garbage conspiracy theory junk. During the 08 primary season, the Paulies were literally banned on sight. You’ve read the front page diaries here as well as I, and, there have been many, especially since the CPAC dust ups, against the Paulies, and against the Paulie libertarians. It seemed to me that the front pagers finally figured out that Ron Paul, and his cult, were actually doing damage to the Republican party. That’s very funny to me as I posted a diary more than a year ago, linking to the Campaign for Liberty site, showing that their goal was to “take over the Republican Party”, because, as they said, the Republicans don’t want to get their hands dirty. They were amassing their troops, and, I believe that I linked to the C4L main site showing the “chapters” they had instituted in every state in the country, sometimes several in each state. Hah, I was told at the time that there weren’t enough of them to worry about, and, that they were inconsequential. Go out and google Tea Party Patriots, and you will see that they have now married with Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty, in organization after organization. Have you read all those front page diaries now recognizing the problem? Sorry for that rant.

        My point is that there was no necessity for Mr. Crown to incite such incendiary language here today within this diary. If the mgmt. wants to change the tone, it should include them, and former frontpagers as well. RS has the perfect ability to frontpage, monitor comments, and decide where they want to go with the site. I am going to include a term that Vassar used above. The front pagers have in fact come out in unison to make much less than respectful, or member appreciating comments throughout this diary. Do you think that Lori Zaganto’s comment to Vassar was respectful, or helpful? No in the slightest. Then again I haven’t usually read LZ articles because I’m not a women’s issue activist. There is NO ONE here that has earned more respect than Penguin, yet, she even fell into the “you don’t know what you are talking about” category. Are you always so willing to fold in the face of adversity, and defer to those in positions above you? I never thought you were. I do not think you really mean that now.

        • lineholder

          How do I put this? I think this whole situation could have been approached in a better way that would have prevented all this unnecessary conflict today, but it is bit difficult to put that into words without making things worse than they already are at this point.

          As to the “conspiracy theory” element of it…I’m not sure that I can answer all your questions on that one. I tried to ask some questions and this was as definitive as it got, Scope.

          I don’t know for absolute certainty that this the ONLY underlying issue in this situation. There could be other factors that play in the situation that really hadn’t been mentioned, such as the fact that this is the end of Feb. of 2011, it won’t be long before we need to get ramped up toward the elections of 2012, it isn’t going to help us in the long run for people to get turned off because of an excessive amount of real or imagined “conspiracy theory” influence, etc. Is it really asking that much of us to consider how the manner in which we express ourselves might influence individuals who come here looking to see what the TeaParty or Republicans have to offer???

          Actually, all the way through this whole situation, it took an act of the will on my part to keep from going off the deep end, saying things that I would probably regret later, etc. I’m as prone to get emotional about things as other people are, but I’ve just chosen to try to keep some degree of objectivity in place. I’ve succeeded to some extent, I hope.

          I did mean what I said above, though. If there is absolutely anything I despise in life itself, it’s exposing myself to ridicule. I’m still a relative newbie at politics. My writing skills aren’t that strong, but they’re improving. But there isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hades that I’m going to leave myself wide open to ridicule. So it’s likely to be a while before I consider putting up a diary post again.

          Does this explain why I’ve responded in the way that I have? I hope so.

          • lineholder

            it will make more sense…”pick your battles wisely.” And it just has to do with what I believe to be right, regarding my own behavior.

  • Tbone

    It’s like standing in the balcony watching a barroom brawl.

    The tough part is that every one is wearing the same color hats.

    (Ya kind of have to stand back a bit to notice that.)

    • Thomas Crown
    • Rusty_S

      Reminds me of the pie fight in Blazing Saddles.

    • acat

      This cat isn’t wearing a hat… I’ve opted for a helmet.

      Mew

    • Jack_Savage

      I’m going back to re-read that thread, now that I think about it.

      • acat
  • Ben Howe

    The preceding headline to this comment is entirely false.

  • Michael Dugas

    to destroy our representative democracy. They are destroying the dollar and purposefully causing inflation to drive up the cost of food and shelter. They are creating as much job and wealth destroying legislation as they can and they are also doing all they can to drive energy costs into the stratosphere. The whole purpose of this is to drive the people into the streets and force more and more of them to depend on the government for survival. Once a citizen becomes government dependent they become a supporter of the government political party….Democrats. They are destroying the middle class with the hope that there will be only two classes left, their uber-rich left-wing friends/supporters and the rest of us with nothing left.
    Their plan is to bring about the fall of America before their actions bring about their own fall. Now that they see that they do not have the majority of the citizens supporting their actions they are calling for civil disobedience and out right violence to force/scare people into doing what they want.
    This is truly a war for the survival of our country.

  • http://www.conservative-outlooks.com ladyimpactohio

    I also would like to thank those on the offense, for because of your piling on and personal attacks on a diarist, which Mr. Leon Wolf had previously stated was a violation of RS’s TOS, made this diary one of the most noticed, most read, and most recommended evah.. 43 at last count. :D

    • ocleverone

      nt

      • speciallist

        I think not

    • Thomas Crown

      I’m guessing you don’t, either. But rubbing a moderator’s face in something is not good for your long-term, conspiracy-mongering health on any board.

      Just helpful advice, Birther.

      • speciallist

        nt

        • speciallist

          i broke your rule

      • RottDawg

        my mistake, now I wish you’d just go crawl back under the rock in which you have been hiding.

  • Read Chesterton

    Completely. And the ad hominem cannibalistic riot on this diary proves it.

    If I didn’t sincerely believe in my statement above, I would have had enough trust in the Contact button to use it.

    And I have not taken sides on the core argument over the diary. So let’s not go there.

    Somebody’s corporate integrity is at stake here. Can we get an adult in the room please?

    • hoosierteacher

      I rec’d the diary, but not because I buy into some conspiracy nonsense. Still, I can recognize that people on both sides (including myself) acted badly in this matter.

      As for the moderating, it isn’t your site (or mine). The site belongs to the staff, and they can run it how they want. I often disagree with how I see the site run, but I didn’t build it, and I don’t work it every day. It isn’t my call.

      I thought the diary raised some good points. Unfortunately you have some conspiracy nuts like this:

      http://www.redstate.com/ladyimpactohio/2011/02/16/obamas-assault-on-our-domestic-energy-now-a-4-alarm-fire/#comment-1540

      …who are going to make those who supported the diary look stupid. On the other side, there were a lot people upset because they couldn’t understand why so many loyal RS readers connected with the diary, so they made up conspiracies about trading rec’s for a quid pro quo. They looked stupid too.

      Both sides acted badly in this matter. But I don’t lump the moderators into one side or the other. First, as I wrote already, moderators on sites own the sites and can run them how they see fit. Those who don’t like it can try to build up their own successful site. Second, as I pointed out way upstream, one of the moderators even rec’d the diary; so there’s no conspiracy of moderators being a monolithic force.

      Just my opinion.

      • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

        industry. Carol makes the calls and does the footwork. I have been crying for civil disobedience on the matter since the Summer of $4/gal gas that caused me to pause in the grocery store before choosing the store brand peas over the more expensive Le Sueur brand so as to have extra change for gas to get home!

      • Read Chesterton

        The site belongs to the staff,

        Wrong.

        The site is an extension of Eagle Publishing, the corporate entity that owns Regnery Books. The “staff” to whom you refer are volunteer appointees who come and go at the whim of the paid help.

        When we start to look like the Freeper website at its lowest self-immolating point before the election of Bush 43, then the RS brand name is looking to be in mortal danger due to the mere vanity of its users.

        • hoosierteacher

          Do you understand the term “proxy”?

          The staff of the site run the site, and they built it. It doesn’t matter that Eagle Publishing bought it. The moderators are empowered to maintain control of the site. They are empowered to moderate, ban, and promote.

          Splitting hairs on semantics misses the point entirely. If you don’t like the way the moderators run the site, leave. Or better yet, complain to Regnery Books and see how far that gets you.

          Sheesh.

          • bobmontgomery

            Returning to the origins of the thread, as I explained way back up there, the diary was up for two days and recommended by lots of people. Not one objection was raised, until the esteemed former moderator and former director arrived on scene and levelled a barrage of vitriol against the diarist *and at the same time lambasted the moderators for not banishing the diary and the diarist* At this point,please refer to where you told Mr. Crown if he didn’t like the way the moderators run the site to leave …….reply at your leisure.
            In the meantime, not content to chide the moderators, Mr. Crown found it necessary to go after the recommenders ……..the members of Redstate…….the members of Redstate…..some of them longtime members of Redstate. Well, at this point of course the whole thing degenerated into accusations of cabals, et cetera. The important point here is that, while some moderators made it clear that Mr. Crown was – either no longer a Director, or a moderator, or was perhaps an occasional guest front page contributor, or whatever – and was speaking as a member on this issue, some moderators and some FPers(who you never hear from in the comments) came out of the woodwork to chastise members, support each other, and, perhaps, Mr. Crown.
            RC’s complaint is spot on. LIO’s diary had nothing to do with birtherism, and while it may have had faults, Mr. Crown’s management style, and perhaps his contempt for imperfection, prevented him from dealing with that in a professional way, as either management, or in a community way, as a member.
            And further, while some managers indicated they were not in total agreement with all of the diarists views, they did indicate that the diarist hadn’t exceeded any bounds and therefore was, apparently, a member in good standing. Still, they rubbed salt in the wounds of the recommenders, in public. I know not the extent of any cliques, as I haven’t been here long enough to join one. But none of this had anything to do, as far as us dumb, incompetent, inconsequential, clueless, unnecessary (apparently) members know about, with the subject of Energy Regulation, which was the subject of the diary. Much less birtherism, which seems to be Mr. Crown’s overriding issue, not to mention what he considers some sort of sorry state of affairs at RedState since he was The Enforcer – which, if that is the bottom line, sort of proves RC’s point, doesn’t it?

          • Scope

            RS bans birthers on sight. and that’s fine. It is an argument, made by some, that is a go nowhere, and wastes time on more important issues that need to be resolved, such as the Obama energy policy. The drilling ban must be removed, and, the Obama admin. is in defiance of a judges orders to do so. They are above the law. OK.

            Do you know how many people here at Redstate would be banned from RS from statements, comments etc. they have made on other sites over the years? The ploy to use LIO’s birther statements elsewhere, leaves every member here subject to ridicule and possible banning from a position they may have taken elsewhere that may have been, or is, against site policy? We have some members here right now that were not on our side, to a large degree, in the past. One of the long time members, since I’ve been here, actually posted that he knew that there was at least one member that was in fact a member of the SDS in the past.

            If members are going to now be called out for past associations, any/every comment they may have left on other sites, or membership in some very anti-Republican/conservative organizations, I suspect we’d lose a lot of the membership. Thankfully that is something I have no worries about, as I was one of the sleepers who have woken up.

        • streiff

          when this dreck was posted. We should have learned our lesson after the Gettysburg-banned-religion-and-then-torched the churches episode but we didn’t realize the extent of the problem.

          Have no fear, though. We are going to fix this though I don’t think very many of the people supporting the bull**** conspiracy theories woven here are going to be happy.

          • lineholder

            Address the issue. The personal attacks can cease. And maybe then we get down to business of moving forward toward 2012.

  • Read Chesterton

    and the occupants are arguing over what’s on TV.

    • lineholder

      I don’t know that it is going to accomplish anything positive at this point to lay blame.

      The truth being told, I’m ticked off about how it went down. And I don’t do anger well, Read. When I get angry, I’ve got a ruthless tongue that becomes sharper than a two-edged sword. There have been times when I’ve gut people and filleted them down to the bone in a state of anger. I know that I can be this way. I finally started trying to find another way to approach situations. And I keep a really, REALLY tight rein on it when I do get angry about things.

      But what is keeping me here, right now, is that regardless of what occurred here yesterday, we’ve got a battle and a half on our hands prior to the 2012 elections. I want to stay as proactively involved as I can. And RS provides me with a means of doing this. I learn a great deal from the diaries that members post. I’m very grateful for that and for the opportunity to be a part of it.

      • Read Chesterton

        As long as the thread remains open, so do the wounds.

  • renny

    and have limited net access.
    I teach at a college and saw the Obamania of 2008, and it does not exist today.
    Seeing seas of faces on tv is not a good indication of how the support inspired by Obama a couple years ago is being seen today.
    I would also say that all the faculty Obama stickers are gone from cars and office doors.
    Of course, some will still love him to death, but I am talking about the mobilization of millions that occurred for the 2008 primaries and general elections.
    I do not see such a movement happening again. That bloom is off the rose.

    • Read Chesterton

      The buildup of the government employee unions and the international movement is happening at their expense. The unemployment figures in the construction trades are closer to 50% than 10%. Imagine those guys sitting home watching teachers with guaranteed employment striking for free health plans and non-contributory pensions. Those plumbers, carpenters, electricians will be sitting home in 2012 just like the disappointed academics who were hoping for FDR but got a Harold Stassen wannabe.

      My brother, the union plumber, tells me that its a common sentiment in the trades that, not only will a teacher willfully cross your trade union picket line for 5 percent off a case of soda, she will run over the picketers if they get in her way.

      So much for brotherhood and unity.