Yesterday, a deranged man named James W. von Brunn shot and fatally wounded a security guard at the American Holocaust Museum. American leftists, still giddy after the murder of George Tiller, are at this moment attempting to chalk von Brunn’s actions up to “right-wing extremism”; apparently, von Brunn was a white supremacist, and typical leftist projection, they have assumed that anyone who is a racist must also be a right-winger. “Will any of Them Apologize to Napolitano Now?” crows Joan Walsh at Salon. The execrable (and typically clueless) Mark Kleiman calls the security guard in question a victim of a “right-wing nutcase.” Markos Moulitsas twitters on and on and on about von Brunn being a “right-winger.”
Unfortunately for these leftists, von Brunn left a lengthy trail of writings behind on the internet that spell out his beliefs pretty clearly. These writings indicate pretty clearly that von Brunn would have been banned within his first three comments of posting at RedState, but would likely have enjoyed a long career as a recommended diarist at DailyKos. Let’s review the bidding, shall we? What we know about von Brunn is that he:
- Hated Christians.
- Despised Bush and McCain.
- Posted lengthy rants about “Neocons” involved in Jewish conspiracies to alter U.S. foreign policy in favor of Israel.
- He placed credence in 9/11 “truther” theories.
This guy sounds waaay right-wing to me. I went back and tried to find some examples of RedState members/diarists posting similar material here, but it turns out that the few who were stupid enough to try it got banned and had their idiotic rantings replaced with amusing YouTube videos. Interesting. Wonder how it goes when people peddle anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, truther conspiracy theories, anti-Christian rants, anti-”neocon” rants, and other such fare at DailyKos? I imagine it goes something like this. Or this. Or this. Or this. Or this. Or this. Or this. In other words, a smattering of disapproving comments, a roughly equal smattering of people agreeing with the tripe you are peddling, and no evidence whatsoever that the purveyors of the site disapprove in any way of you posting such material on their site. And folks, the hit parade goes on and on and on.
So I guess the obvious question is this: if von Brunn were looking for a mainstream political activism site on which to broadcast his views to the largest number of likeminded individuals (or individuals susceptible to coming around to his point of view), would he find a warmer reception at RedState, or DailyKos? I submit that the answer to this question might be a far more useful metric of von Brunn’s political leanings than the baseless assumption propounded by unthinking leftists that because von Brunn is a racist, he must be a right-winger.
Update: Leon’s not being totally fair here. Markos addressed the inordinate amount of anti-semitism on his website, in response to an accusation from that right-winger Harold Ford.
See? It’s not anti-semitism; it’s democracy. Besides - who can control a few thousand extremists? Certainly not Markos.
- Brian Faughnan
BLAM
Dan McLaughlin Thursday, June 11th at 1:03PM EDT (link)Yeah, we’d definitely have banned this guy for trolling in nanoseconds.
Barack Obama would have told him to go pound sand in a matter of decades.
“No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong.” - Winston Churchill
Exactly. He'd have been banned.
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 2:39PM EDT (link)Because he’s an extremist. The DHS released a report about left wing extremism in January (before the report on right wing extremism). Based on the DHS definition of “rightwing,” it seems pretty clear that this guy was more right than left. Regardless, he’s an extremist, and I’m happy that the DHS is keeping an eye out for all extremists, whether on the far, far right or the far, far left.
Please explain.... in what way were his views "right"?
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 2:43PM EDT (link)I’d like a detailed response.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
Here you go, Brian
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 3:00PM EDT (link)As I said, based on the DHS definition of “rightwing extremism,” he seems more right than left. Now, we may disagree as to the correctness of the DHS’s characterization of left versus right, but that’s another discussion.
Anyway, here’s how the DHS characterizes leftwing extremists:
“DHS/Office of Intelligence and Analysis defines leftwing extremists as
groups or individuals who embrace radical elements of the anarchist, animal rights, or
environmental movements and are often willing to violate the law to achieve their
objectives. Many leftwing extremist groups are not hierarchically ordered with defined
members, leaders, or chain of command structures but operate as loosely-connected
underground movements composed of “lone wolves,” small cells, and splinter groups.”
And here’s how they characterize rightwing extremists:
“Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.”
So again, based on this, the shooter seems more a “rightwing extremist” than a “leftwing extremist.” And again, I think that all of us who are not extremists can rightly condemn his actions, regardless of those actions’ philosophical/political origins.
So you're validating the DHS assesment?
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 3:03PM EDT (link)Do you believe that the Nazi and similar hate based groups should be lumped with US?
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
Absolutely not...
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 3:18PM EDT (link)If we’re thinking strictly in terms of left vs. right, then all political thought falls into some great continuum. My place on that continuum is nothing more than my place on that continuum. I’d rather not have the views of other people (whether to the left or right of me) ascribed to me, because they are not my views. In other words, the fact that there are people who take my beliefs to a violent extreme in no ways dissuades me from what I believe to be the underlying truth of my beliefs.
I think the DHS report is simply acknowledging that if you go the extremes of left or right, you end up with some pretty scary characters. Also, as I posted elsewhere, I think that too often people attach the word “extremist” to anyone with whom they disagree, when, in reality, it’s pretty much (and please excuse my judgmental language here) the nut jobs who are on the extreme right and extreme left.
OK, can you explain how conservative views
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 3:26PM EDT (link)taken to the extreme become Nazi ideology? I’d like your own opinion, not a reference to some Democrat party propaganda released as a DHS report.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
I can't...
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 4:09PM EDT (link)explain how conservative views taken to the extreme become Nazi ideology.
Fortunately, I don’t believe that I ever suggested that. What I said was, “if you go the extremes of left or right, you end up with some pretty scary characters.” That, to me, seems a pretty benign statement, doesn’t it?
It's a benign statement on it's own.
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 4:23PM EDT (link)In the context of this discussion after you clearly stated that he was a “right wing” extremist it equated OUR views with his.
Perhaps I should explain that the basis of conservatism is individual liberty with a recognition that governments are a necessary evil that are required to protect the individual liberties of everyone and allow society to function. We believe that unchecked government becomes tyrannical. Every other position of conservatism can be traced to that belief.
There is no way to get from that statement to Nazism, Fascism, racism, or any similar ideology often ascribed to “right wing extremists”.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
That may well be, Brian...
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 4:45PM EDT (link)but isn’t it also true that not all conservatives are right wing, and certainly not all right wingers are conservative? In other words, von Brunn, while exhibiting the traits that the DHS ascribes to “right wing extremists,” doesn’t seem to have any of the traits you listed above as being definitively conservative. Therefore, though he may be a right winger, he’s no conservative. And as I see it, much of the complaints from within the conservative movement about the GOP (the party of the right) is that they are not true conservatives. Thus, it seems that there are many ways to be right of center, and not all of them are conservative.
Or am I wrong about that, and in your opinion, true conservatism is the equivalence or even the apotheosis of the right wing?
A matter of mixed definitions.
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 5:05PM EDT (link)As the discussion with Crab Cakes below suggests, part of the problem is with the definitions used…..
Right wing actually has it’s origins with the French having the “left” side being the socialists and related ideologies and the “right” being the monarchists. The idea of individual liberty doesn’t really fit into that system. It’s modern use in THIS country applies it to conservatives rather than monarchists.
You keep referencing the DHS definition. That’s probably what’s confusing you. That report uses the standard lefty smear of equating conservatives with the Nazi’s Fascists, racists, and similar groups. We don’t belong with them. There is no way to get from our belied to theirs.
Conservativism is an ideology based on individual liberty as I mentioned above. In the past there were conservatives in both major parties. Now, only the Republican party has a large number of conservatives. Republican and conservative are not the same thing. There are Republicans who are not conservative and conservatives who are not Republicans.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
I'm totally with you as per conservative ideology...
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 7:47PM EDT (link)And, I’m totally in agreement with you (and CrabCakes) that the problem is partly with definitions.
Now, as to the DHS report, I would opine that it’s not confusing me in the least. I just read what it said. In my reading, the DHS report does not equate conservatives with Nazis, Fascists, racists and similar groups. In fact, the DHS report doesn’t even mention conservatives at all. It pretty much only talks about “rightwing extremists,” who, as described by the DHS report, we know categorically, are not adherents to conservative values. They are, well, “extremists.” (Incidentally, the term “neo-Nazi” comes up only once in the report, and “fascists” not at all.)
Thus to suggest that “the report uses the standard lefty smear of equating conservatives with the Nazi’s Fascists, racists, and similar groups,” well, I just don’t get that from the report. I think that the only way to get that is to conflate all right of center groups into conservatives–or, to put it another way, to say that all right wingers are alike–and that’s clearly a ridiculous proposition.
So, yes, I’m totally with you that conservatism is an ideology based on individual liberty. I just disagree that the DHS report said anything at all about conservatives.
Having said that, I think that there are some on the left who conflate “conservative” and “rightwing” to the point where conservatives (and especially neocons) are considered “extremist.”
Likewise, I think that there are some on the right who, having heard these lefty conflations so often, have come to think that every time someone mentions “rightwing extremists,” they’re talking about conservatives.
But, I’d say they’re both wrong.
Thus, I’d argue that all of us (and I’m including my occasionally hot-headed self in this) ought perhaps to be more careful with our rhetoric. We should listen more to the other side(s) and try to figure out exactly what everyone is saying rather than jumping to conclusions based not on fact but on our own projections. I really do think that we would then find more commonality than disagreement in the totality of our beliefs.
The report had 2 sections that lumped us with the hate groups.
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 8:44PM EDT (link)The first section specifically mentioned the hate groups. The second section made a list of conservative positions and said to watch out for people with those views. It basically lumped us both together as right wing extremists.
The Nazis and Fascists and racial hate groups have no relation to us. Rather the Nazi’s and Fascists have their ideological basis in the socialist camp. The white supremacist groups are either Nazi’s or KKK related with the KKK being a splinter of the Democrat party.
And yes it does use the standard lefty smear.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
Oh, and one more thing...
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 3:11PM EDT (link)Sorry, but I realize I didn’t really answer your question: “In what way were his views right?”
The views that I’m talking about were the ones listed in Leon’s original post:
Hated Christians. (primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups))
Despised Bush and McCain (rejecting government authority)
Posted lengthy rants about “Neocons” involved in Jewish conspiracies to alter U.S. foreign policy in favor of Israel. (primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups))
He placed credence in 9/11 “truther” theories ((rejecting government authority)
What do you think?
And these are "right wing" conservative views?
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 3:16PM EDT (link)Explain, please.
I don’t appreciate your insinuation that conservatives and nazis are equivalent.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
Just answered that above...
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 3:22PM EDT (link)And no, I would categorically reject that equivalence, of course.
You are a complete idiot
Jack_Savage Thursday, June 11th at 4:27PM EDT (link)Everything that we are against on the right he is for, and because some over-her-head twit at DHS can’t tell the difference, you use an ludicrous and incomplete report to call this guy “right wing”.
Do you even realize what you are saying?
You're own arguments betray you.
eburke Thursday, June 11th at 4:56PM EDT (link)To set the table here - since the media uses the term ‘right-wing’, it always refers to ‘conservative Republicans’. When it uses the term ‘left wing’, it’s always in reference to ‘liberal Democrats’. (well, actually, scratch that; the MSM doesn’t ever *use* the term ‘left-wing’, much less apply it to Dems).
So, with ‘right-wing’ = ‘conservative Republicans’ in the minds of the public thanks to MSM brainwashing, what you just basically said was that it was Conservative Republicans who:
The views that I’m talking about were the ones listed in Leon’s original post:
Hate Christians (I thought most ‘conservative Republicans *were* Christian)
Despised Bush and McCain (so most conservative Republicans voted for Gore, Kerry & The One?_
Posted lengthy rants about “Neocons” involved in Jewish conspiracies to alter U.S. foreign policy in favor of Israel. (um, the left are the ones who coined the term ‘Neocons’ so…..conservative Republicans post rants about….themselves?
He placed credence in 9/11 “truther” theories (gee, I never knew that the KosKids and Michael Moore were conservative Republicans; welcome aboard guys!)
And finally, the DHS report, which you so blithely posted and agreed with has arbitrarily ascribed the following attributes to be ‘right wing’:
hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups (good thing I never see libs espousing hatred of those different from them)
mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority (it is, indeed, dangerous to adhere to the tenents of the Constitution, especially Ammendments IX & X)
and,
may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration (but not, let’s say, partial-birth abortion, gay marriage, legalizing illegal immigrants, or taking over huge swaths of the US economy)
You’re either unable to think critically….or a troll. My guess?
Both
“All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
“Dead fish go with the flow” ~ izoneguy
“We have a Statue of Liberty not a Statue of Necessity” ~ ColdWarrior
Turns out, he was a Socialist.
Brian Hibbert Friday, June 12th at 8:12AM EDT (link)VIA a link I got from my friend David Rasbold, Gateway Pundit has a story about Von Brun’s political writings.
Turns out he was a socialist.
It doesn’t surprise me a much since the Nazi’s are avowed socialists.
Further proof that lumping conservatives and Nazi’s in the same political arena is a lefty smear against conservatives.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
If I can drop my two cents, I'd like a shot as well:
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 3:24PM EDT (link)I think a lot of confusion has arisen concerning the use of “right” and “left” recently, so perhaps this partial copy/paste from a previous comment of mine today will help (or perhaps it will just make people mad) :
The terms “Right” and “Left” originate during the period around the time of the French Revoluion:
“Right”= any political philosophy that can be traced to the late-18th/early-19th century French rightists. This would mean that the “right” would include monarchists, nationalists, and supremacists in addition to those who wish to preserve traditional values and those who oppose the redistribution of wealth. It would also include religious conservatives and those who are more comfortable with a partnership between church and state.
“Left”= any political philosophy that can be traced to the late-18th/early-19th century French leftists. This would mean that the “left” would include communists and socialists, in addition to those who believe that social progress and economic equality as goals that should be pursued by the state. It would also include those who see religion as having no place in the public square.
The American Right obviously subscribes to some of the things listed above (e.g., traditional values) and not others (e.g., monarchy, supremacy). The American Left clearly subscribes to some above (e.g., belief in social progress) and not others (e.g., communism). The reason they are “Right” and “Left” is because of their intellectual ancestors, though, not because of any set of features they happen to currently have.
Von Brunn’s ideology is “far-right” because his ideology is a descendant of 19th-century French Right, albeit an extreme and twisted one, especially his nationalistic views and a belief in supremacy (in this case, racial not class-based as in France). While one (not I) might argue that American exceptionalism is a watered down version of the former, the latter has been entirely rejected by anything approaching the mainstream American Right.
If these terms have lost so much of their original meaning, then perhaps it is best to abandon them altogether. If we’re going to keep using terms like “Right” and “Left,” though, we should know what they actually mean.
Or since we live in Amrica and have our own right and left to compare to we could do that...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 3:31PM EDT (link)In which we find that communism and institutional racism has been demonstrably a trait of the left i.e. the KKK, Jim Crow, FDR, John F. Kerry, Bernie Sanders, Obama.
As well anarchy has been a goal of the new left in order to bring about “change” in America.
Why rely on outdated French political divisions when we clearly have our own unique left v. right dichotomy here in America.
Keep covering for your ideological failings…maybe you won’t ever have to wake up.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Like I said, perhaps we should abandon the labels altogether,
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 3:39PM EDT (link)but “Left” and “Right” only have meaning with regard to where the the respective groups sat in relation to the French monarch. If we’re not going to use the terms with regard to intellectual movements that descend thence, I’m not sure why we should keep using them at all.
As far as I can tell, your definition of “Left” is anything with which you happen to disagree. In addition, you seem to have a definition of communism that is so broad that it’s essentially useless (except perhaps as a political cudgel). We have had real communist (think Stalin) movements in America, but, thank God, they’ve never been represented by a major political party.
I’m not trying to quibble over words here, but clear definitions and an understanding of the etymology of words helps prevent fuzzy thinking.
CrabCakes...the Democratic party is full of communists...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 3:44PM EDT (link)and all sort of other ideologies which eventually result in totalitarian tyranny. Sorry you don’t like that but it is what it is.
And left isn’t anything I disagree with, I just happen to disagree with everything that is left.
have fun with your continued life of fuzzy ideological thinking.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
The Democrat party is indeed full of communists....
JadedByPolitics Thursday, June 11th at 5:41PM EDT (link)If you have ever attended an anti-war protest the first one’s you run into would be the Communist Party handing out their paper and then you get the full complement of the left from there….Democrats and those they partner with for their attempt to stop the Republic and ’spread the weath” are ANTI American there is no patriotism in them no Nationalism they would NEVER lay down and die for their country EVER!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
It takes two to tango, so "we" can't abandon the labels - therefore
Mike gamecock DeVine Sunday, June 14th at 8:04AM EDT (link)it is important to counter the claims of our American and modern western Left.
You have helped to inspire a column I am working on concerning who is to blame for the 49 murders/day in America…
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Crab Cakes, I'm aware of the origins of the terms.
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 3:34PM EDT (link)However, as currently used in the US, the term “right wing” refers to us as conservative Republicans.
What I object to is the idea that the Nazi’s, Fascist, white supremacists and other statist ideologies have anything to do with conservatism. They don’t. In fact they have their roots in the socialist movement.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
The socialist movement and the fascist movement have two distinct origins.
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 3:43PM EDT (link)The former strives for an international community of proletariat comrades living in a Utopian state where everyone is fully reimbursed for his own labor without any dirty bourgeoisie to take the fruit of their labor.
The latter is nationalistic and militaristic and it’s goal is for an all powerful state to lead the citizens of the Fatherland to victory over all the weaker nations who have demonstrated their inadequacy on the world stage.
The only thing they have in common is where they end up–in totalitarianism. In origin, however, they sit on opposite sides of the political spectrum (and the French king).
No CrabCakes, they don't have distinct origins.
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 3:53PM EDT (link)Mussolini was a leader in the socialist movement before he split off and ran the Fascist movement. The only significant difference between Mussolini’s vision of utopia and the socialist vision was that Mussolini appealed to nationalism as the cause to rally around while the socialists appealed to class.
Mussolini also allowed that private ownership and operation of corporations was temporarily OK so long as the corporation met the goals of the state. At the moment when the corporation differed with state goals, it was taken over by the state. His vision was that eventually, the state would own the corporations as fascism evolved towards true socialism.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
This Mussolini?!
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:04PM EDT (link)“We must go halfway towards meeting the workers…(comments on Worker rights)…We shall support these demands, partly because we want workers to get accustomed to the responsibilities of management and to learn as a result that it isn’t easy to operate a business successfully.”
“As for economic democracy, we favour national syndicalism and reject State intervention whenever it aims at throttling the creation of wealth.”
The stated goal of fascism is the glory of the state. The stated goal of socialism is its annihilation.
The goal of both is to control the economy and the people, which is the opposite of "right wing"...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:07PM EDT (link)anathema
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Just Call Them Neo-Sans-Culottes
Swamp_Yankee Thursday, June 11th at 4:14PM EDT (link)And forget the whole thing.
Authoritarianism has been around forever and all this class warfare statist crap really originated during the French Revolution and the revolutions of 1848 long before modern communism.
Not Dead Yet!
Government control of the economy is not the opposite of "right wing,"
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:16PM EDT (link)since the purest form of “right wing” ideology is monarchism, and no one likes to run an economy like a monarch.
The mainstream American Right is a descendant of the French Right, mostly via Edmund Burke, who was a lot less enthusiastic about the French monarchy than many, but still supported it. The mainstream American Right has evolved quite a bit since Burke and is, to one degree or another, economically laissez faire. Other descendants of the French Right, did not adopt laissez faire economics as one of their defining characteristics.
I think the problem is that many on the American Right want their politically ideology to be the only recognized descendant of the French Right. Making this move, though, forces all other political ideologies to be dubbed “Leftist,” even those with origins on the opposite side of the French king.
Again...we don't live in France..over the course of the last 200 years we have developed our own left right dichotomy...quit being ignorant...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:19PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
I'm not being ignorant; I'm being accurate.
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:30PM EDT (link)If you want to use the terms “Left” and “Right” use them properly.
If you don’t want to tie your political ideology to that of French monarchists, then use a different term. There are plenty of them out there: Conservative and Classical Liberal are two designations that are closer to what you mean by “Right.”
When we’re trying to group ideologies together though, Right and Left are helpful categories to have in their original sense.
You are being ignorant...we aren't discussing French political divides...and you know that...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:33PM EDT (link)and I think you know as well that in America the left is represented by the Democrats and their philosophies and the right is represented by the Republicans and their philosophies.
So again quit being ignorant…and you can add willfully to that if you like.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Really guys, be accurate
Jack_Savage Thursday, June 11th at 4:37PM EDT (link)We should also lump in the tribes of Kenya, the languages spoken, and their primary method of gathering food.
It has as much to do with this debate as the French definitions of left and right, and I refuse to be cowed into not inserting this into the debate. So there.
Stated goal? You've got it a bit wrong.
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 4:11PM EDT (link)Fascism’s stated goal was the glorification of “the people” as a whole with the state being the agent of the people.
The stated goal of socialism may be the elimination of the state, but their implementation is it’s glorification. Socialism requires state control of everything. It’s been said that Fascism is merely a practical implementation of socialism without lying about the actions being taken.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
In Fascism the People = the state,
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:22PM EDT (link)and the State/People is more than the sum of its parts, following Hegel, especially those eighteenth thinkers typically dubbed members of the “Hegelian Right.”
Marx, the primary representative of the “Hegelian Left,” vehemently rejected this view. In his view the State’s job was to ensure the proletariat got their due. The difference is whether the people exist for the state or the state exists for the people.
In practice, like I said above, they both turn into totalitarianism. Political ideology, though isn’t about practice, it’s about ideas. Von Brunn isn’t classified as jihadis, even though he kills people just like Islamic extremists, because the ideas that drive his actions are very different from those of jihadists, even if the end result is the same.
In practice is the only thing that matter CrabCakes...so in practice socialism and fascism and Von Brunn all are agents of the left...deal with it...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:30PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
In practice von Brunn is a murderer.
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:37PM EDT (link)The only way you can ascribe a political ideology to his murder is if you identify 1) his motive and 2) the proper categorization of that motive on the political spectrum if that motive was politically motivated.
Since our present political spectrum is historically derived and you have willfully chosen to ignore history in identifying political ideologies, you are rendered incapable of carrying out the latter.
Ok his motive was a hatred of Jews, shared by Stalin who was a leftist...now weasel out of it....
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:41PM EDT (link)His writings and his target confirm his motivation.
And as far as me ignoring history…not so, I just understand that it didn’t stop in 18th century France.
You ignore 200 years of American Political history.
Moron. And yes I called you a name, because it fits with how incredibly dense you are being right now.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Stalin's antisemitism was at odds with orthodox Communism,
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:49PM EDT (link)which states that no identity matters except that of class.
Stalin was antisemitic for personal reasons, and Communists like Khrushchev were especially embarrassed by it.
Fascism, in its orthodox form, is racist by definition.
(NB: I’m not excusing Communism, Stalin, Khrushchev, or antisemitism here. I’m simply saying that motivation matters.)
and here is a nice Mussolini quote...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:13PM EDT (link)along with this:
and this:
and my favorite
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
None of that contradicts what I said above.
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:25PM EDT (link)Extreme Cliff’s Notes version:
Fascism: Citizens Exist for the Glorification of the State
Socialism: The State Exists for the Promotion of the Interests of the Worker
Why is it that you can't comprehend context at all...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:28PM EDT (link)seriously, is it a mental deficiency found in all Democrats?
You response was saying that Brian was incorrect, I showed supporting evidence as to how Brian was correct.
Your lack of comprehension is amazing.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Where in any quotation you cited
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:34PM EDT (link)does Mussolini mention the State existing for the benefit of the proletariat.
In socialism the state is a means to an end, and once that end is reach it will fall away.
In fascism, the end is the state itself. Everything you cited supports the latter, none the former.
Theory v. Practice again....I think practice matters you think theory matters...probably why you voted for Obama...in theory he sounded great in practice...well I think his record speaks for itself...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:37PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Theory matters when your describing ideologies,
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:42PM EDT (link)because they are bundles of theories.
Once again, there are any number of ideological reasons for killing someone. Just because one reason for killing someone is Islamic fundamentalism does not mean that all ideological murderers, e.g., Nazis, Communists, Anarchists, are Islamic fundamentalists. The same goes for totalitarianism.
Ok name one policy von Brunn agrees with the Republicans on and I will name a few he agrees with you on...you go first...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:47PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
I'm not talking about Republicans here!!!!
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 4:52PM EDT (link)I’ve said several times that the only thing in common between the two is that their ideologies both descended from the same group of Frenchmen. Classifying ideologies according to which group of Frenchmen they have as ancestors is helpful for both historical purposes and for determining the ideological underpinnings of different movements.
An implication of one branch of Right-wing ideology is no implication of other wings of Right-wing ideology.
Again you ignore 200 years of American political history...see the KKK, JimCrow, the New Left of the 60's...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 4:54PM EDT (link)distort all you like….seems to be all you are good at.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
All right, folks.
Moe Lane Thursday, June 11th at 4:54PM EDT (link)Everybody go eat a sandwich, or something.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
When did he say these things?
Karina Thursday, June 11th at 4:18PM EDT (link)That makes a huge difference. He also gave women the right to vote but rescinded it later saying that women were better off making babies and taking care of their homes. He said a lot of things at the beginning that changed once he was in real power. Sounds kinda familiar…
Stop confusing me with the facts, I’m making up my own imagination. ~My grandmother who voted for Obama
I guess that's why it was called national socialism, right?
Streiff Thursday, June 11th at 7:47PM EDT (link)because it wasn’t a form of socialism.
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
National socialism is an ideological mess,
CrabCakes Thursday, June 11th at 8:18PM EDT (link)which is largely why people who want to talk about Fascism turn to Mussolini rather than Hitler.
The Nazis hated Jews, Communists, Homosexuals, Capitalists, Catholicism, and pretty much anything else that wasn’t “The German People.” It was a disgusting hodge-podge of hatred, and despite my best efforts (studying insane religious and political views are a bit of a hobby of mine) I have yet to find an intellectually coherent strand tying the movement together. I suspect that this is because Hitler essentially invented the movement, one based on solidarity through hate, and he was bat-stuff insane.
The reason Nazis are usually lumped in with the right is that both of their allies fit much more neatly into far-right ideology and that the far right-wing aspects of Nazism (supremacy and nationalism) were both more extreme and more horrifying than the far left-wing aspects (emphasis on the rights of the workers), which while prominent especially in Hitler’s early speeches, were rarely if ever turned into actual policy. In addition, Neo-Nazism picked up the supremacy and nationalism of Nazism, but (except in the case of the weirdest political philosophy I’ve ever encountered, “The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party), rarely adopts what are traditionally identified as “left-wing” extremist elements.
And Obama is successfully bringing the two together
Jack_Savage Thursday, June 11th at 4:17PM EDT (link)What a Uniter!
Of course, the slight exception is that Obama is leading the all-powerful state to victory over her own citizens, because America has demonstrated her inadequacy on the world stage (support of Israel, facing Islamic terrorists - stuff like that).
Only Difference Between von Brunn and Kos...
farstar99 Thursday, June 11th at 4:40PM EDT (link)…is that von Brunn is dead.
The account thing occurred to me, too.
Kos did something yesterday, because the site was limited for a while.
I assume he was purging files.
Somebody posted that he instantly put up a screen saying von Brunn was et cetera, so I went to look. That’s basically all you could see for about ten minutes. Then when it came back, some pages wouldn’t load and still don’t, at least for me.
Somebody with more time could probably get them out of cache, assuming Google isn’t Memory Hole-scrubbing those sites for Obama, too, as they did for his campaign.
The hatred of the "Them Jews Wright-wing movement" is to be condemned
6eorge Jetson Thursday, June 11th at 1:12PM EDT (link)How ironic that Obama’s pastor of 20 years just publically reaffirmed that he shares anti-Semetic views similar to von Brunn by lamenting the control of “Them Jews”.
Hold off on that Mammogram for 10 years
This guy's next stop was apparently going to be The Weekly Standard.
Moe Lane Thursday, June 11th at 1:12PM EDT (link)That well-known house organ for the American Left. Via @BrianFaughnan.
I think that it’s time for our esteemed Left-brethren to start revising and extending their comments.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
They spent years ranting about 'Neocon warmongers'
Neil Stevens Thursday, June 11th at 1:13PM EDT (link)The chickens. Come home. To roost.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
That hasn't been established.
jstone Thursday, June 11th at 2:15PM EDT (link)The FBI found the Standard’s address among his possessions. Under questioning, Standard employees said they had not received any threats. It’s just as conceivable that he had their address for another reason (sending hate mail, for examples, or flowers).
did he threaten the Holocaust Museum?
Dan McLaughlin Thursday, June 11th at 3:58PM EDT (link)Advance notice doesn’t seem to have been his MO, was it?
“No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong.” - Winston Churchill
Are you defending this guy?
Jack_Savage Thursday, June 11th at 4:19PM EDT (link)Or just trying to pretend your side is not anti-semitic?
Did “them Jews” instruct you to do this?
Dems are Going to Claim the Weekly Standard Sent Him.
farstar99 Thursday, June 11th at 4:42PM EDT (link)Since they consider it to be a right-wing publication.
This guy was just nuts - any way you look at it
suzieQ Thursday, June 11th at 1:17PM EDT (link)He posted anti-Obama stuff at The Free Republic. That doesn’t mean he was a right-winger. If McCain would have won, he would have posted anti-McCain stuff too. He was just plain crazy - no rhyme or reason around that. I personally don’t think he was right wing or left wing - just nuts.
“It’s finally happened: Abortion stopped a bleeding heart.”
- Ann Coulter, January 25, 2006
“My concern about the role of the federal government is that an intrusive government, a government that says, ‘Don’t worry, we will solve your problems’ is a government that tends to crowd compassion out of the marketplace, that too often in the past people said: ‘Somebody else will take care of the problem in my area. Don’t worry. The government is here.’”
- George W. Bush October 31, 2000
“Had the decision belonged to Senator Kerry, Saddam Hussein would still be in power today in Iraq. In fact, Saddam Hussein would almost certainly still be in control of Kuwait.”
- Dick Cheney
Agreed...this guy was a wingnut terrorist
leftylurker Thursday, June 11th at 1:49PM EDT (link)And that’s all.
He’s not a leftwingnut or a rightwingnut, just an evil wingnut.
This guy was a useful idiot....but the ideology behind it is extreme left wing anarchy mixed with racial superiority...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 1:54PM EDT (link)You can choose to ignore it so as to remain comfortable with your chosen ideology but please don’t come on here and try to make this into a “both sides have their wackos” argument.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Aaron, both sides *do* have their wackos.
leftylurker Thursday, June 11th at 2:21PM EDT (link)And that’s not what I’m trying to make this. You could just as easily have made your comments to SuzieQ’s point. I was just agreeing with her.
as this particular crazy was also planning to hit the Weekly Standard
Streiff Thursday, June 11th at 2:25PM EDT (link)I think we can make some fairly safe judgments about his political leanings. IOW, he wasn’t one of our crazies.
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
Agreed, just evil
leftylurker Thursday, June 11th at 2:29PM EDT (link)That’s it.
just anti-semitic, Bush-Cheney-neocon hating evil
Streiff Thursday, June 11th at 2:39PM EDT (link)yes
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
And a 9-11 troofer to boot
Jack_Savage Thursday, June 11th at 4:20PM EDT (link)Or should I say, to jackboot.
leftylurker...the point I am making is that this guy is on the left at his root...most right wing ideologies simply don't give way to extremism that's just the way it is...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 2:39PM EDT (link)The left on the other hand relies on these types of people as useful idiots to further their goals.
Like I said before…you are on the wrong side ideologically in this that’s just the way it is.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
haha!
leftylurker Thursday, June 11th at 2:41PM EDT (link)I have to say Aaron, even though I don’t think we agree on ANYTHING, you’re allright.
Back at ya...lefty...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 2:51PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Aaron, the ideology seems more like one of those Ross Perot or even Ron Paul people than anything else to me. nt
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 2:33PM EDT (link)No, the Pauliacs weren't Nazis.
Brian Hibbert Thursday, June 11th at 2:39PM EDT (link)There were a lot of truthers in the mix, but the majority of them are Libertairan in their views. This guy was a Nazi. That is a totalitarian ideology more closely associated with socialism than libertarianism.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
This guy tried to place members of the Federal Reserve under a "Citizen's arrest." Seems like a Pauliac to me. nt
redstatebluestate123 Friday, June 12th at 1:19AM EDT (link)And what do they have to do with Right Wing redstatebluestate123?? Neither of them are truly representative of Conservatism or the idea of ordered liberty...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 2:41PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Did I say they were Right wing? I did not. Why do you assume I am taking that position? nt
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 2:43PM EDT (link)Don't be cute restatebluestate...your response was to my position that von Brunn was a left winger...what else could you have meant....nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 2:49PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
That his ideology was neither left nor right but the peculiar mix of the two held by followers of Ross Perot and Ron Paul? Isn't that EXACTLY what I said? nt
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 2:52PM EDT (link)no you just threw out two names that the MSM associate with "right-wing extremism", like I said don't get cute redstatebluestate...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 2:54PM EDT (link)And now you are trying to cover for your slip.
Spare me.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
And of course, as a member of the MSM, I obviously equate Ron Paul and Ross Perot with right-wing extremism despite the fact that they are both obviously not right wing. Don't be ridiculous. nt
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 2:56PM EDT (link)Just for the record, I'm not actually a member of the mainstream media. Sarcasm alert and all that. nt
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 2:57PM EDT (link)You are the one being ridiculous redstatebluestate...
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 3:00PM EDT (link)You threw it out there in a discussion whose context was left v right. You can try to back track as much as you like, but anyone with a basic understanding of context can see exactly where you were going.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
And I was entering the argument by saying "neither". The only possible way to think otherwise is to assume that RP and RP (never realized they had the same initials) are right-wingers. Which they aren't. nt
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 3:05PM EDT (link)Only that isn't what you said...at all...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 3:07PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
In fact it is exactly what I said. Except I assumed you would understand that "more than anything else" meant more than right-wing or left-wing.
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 3:14PM EDT (link)Reread my comment, assuming that I believe RP and RP are NOT right-wingers. It should make everything clear to you.
I think you need to look up the word "exactly"...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 3:19PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
and ambiguous while you are at it...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 3:19PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Looked them up. They mean what I thought they did. I stand by all of my posts so far. nt
redstatebluestate123 Thursday, June 11th at 3:20PM EDT (link)Isn't this guy just another Ahmadinejad?
Lammo Thursday, June 11th at 1:36PM EDT (link)One is a Jew hating Holocaust denier and the other . . . . What’s the difference? None that I can see. Why does the One condemn the first but want to make nice with the other?
ACORN: Association of Criminals Obama Represented in the Nineties. (jupitersuite)
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (Fr. John Corapi, SOLT)
Crime never takes a holiday. (Dennis J. O’Shea, R.I.P.)
Unlawful is against the law. Illegal is a sick bird. (Ooold joke)
Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read. (Groucho Marx)
Excellent point counselor.... nt
olsmithie Thursday, June 11th at 2:07PM EDT (link)Because the first killed somebody.
mikefisk Thursday, June 11th at 2:37PM EDT (link)If Ahmadinejad were to lob a few Shahabs into Tel Aviv, you’d get the same response from Obama then… something about it being a tragic event that we hope will never be repeated, or something like that…
“Once within the maw of Leviathan, degree of digestion is irrelevant.” - Michael Fisk
7.88, -1.97
Oh, yeah
Dan McLaughlin Thursday, June 11th at 4:14PM EDT (link)Ahmadinejad is the head of state of a police state that’s #1 on the State Dept list of terrorism supporters and that funnelled weapons into Iraq, among other things. Suuuuuuuure, he hasn’t killed anybody.
“No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong.” - Winston Churchill
This was my shout out last night....
$peciallist Thursday, June 11th at 1:53PM EDT (link)http://twitter.com/speciallist/status/2113035181
LOL
Control
Turk Thursday, June 11th at 2:21PM EDT (link)Notice Markos’ comment? He said he can’t “control” hundreds of thousands. This is where it would be helpful if elected officials could be bothered to learn technology.
Ford should have replied:
“What about ‘moderating’ hundreds of thousands? Don’t you, as a site operator, have an obligation to moderate the site? Don’t you have an obligation to ensure that, as a progressive, you practice what you preach and purge such hate speech from your site?”
You see
Pomme Thursday, June 11th at 2:41PM EDT (link)The “hate speech” is regulated there! Of course, their definition of “hate speech” is anything differing at all what they believe.
Heh. Maybe von Brunn was a Koshead afterall.
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views” William F Buckley Jr.
I read on another blog von Brunn was actually a registered d'rat (nt)
ciscoguy Thursday, June 11th at 3:35PM EDT (link)link? ciscoguy...nt
Aaron Gardner Thursday, June 11th at 3:36PM EDT (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Shepard Smith owes an apology
fisk2521 Thursday, June 11th at 5:26PM EDT (link)Do you suppose us ‘right wing’ crazies will receive an apology from Shepard Smith? I know I qualify because I believe abortion is murder, and I believe that Barack Obama is destroying this country in the name of socialism…and I’m not happy about it.
Shep was so distrubed by those right wingers … like Von Braun…. guess he should have done some research or just waited for it to come to him.
LDavis
Actually, an apology from the wax figure called Shepard Smith
Jack_Savage Thursday, June 11th at 5:49PM EDT (link)He is broadcasting from Madame Tussaud’s these days…
He's just trying to make sure he gets invited
Leopard1996 Thursday, June 11th at 10:27PM EDT (link)To all the media lib cocktail parties by taking this tack. I never did like him even when he is just reporting the news, but when he has to comment on something, he is always too whiney and normally in the dead wrong.
“The accumluated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen
I lost my respect for him on this weird "drunken" diatribe
Karina Friday, June 12th at 4:27AM EDT (link)Stop confusing me with the facts, I’m making up my own imagination. ~My grandmother who voted for Obama
From Personal Experience
OccamsRazor Thursday, June 11th at 9:11PM EDT (link)After years of lurking at Kos, then a length of time lurking and eventually registering here, it is CLEAR, that James Von Brunn’s mindset is much more accepted at Kos and not even remotely possible here at RedState. Period.
Any ideology that promotes rule by one person, group of people, race, party, religion falls under the left-wing extremism moniker ...
DONTREADONME Thursday, June 11th at 9:39PM EDT (link)Therefore, the only right wing extremists out there are the anarchists and they associate themselves with the left most often then not.
The right believe in the individuals liberty, not that of one group, religion, sex, party, race etc; therefore, it is the left wing extremists that are responsible for hate groups and that includes Rev Wright and this wack job from yesterday whose name I will not commit to memory.
There it is cased closed, I have decided to change the lexicon and there you have it, left wing nut job murders one at the Holocaust museum.
“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
This is the true Conservative movement?
oldie Friday, June 12th at 12:16AM EDT (link)The majority of comments I have read on this post are mainly off the wall. Most are expending a lot of effort trying to put the blame for the actions of a nut case on the liberals, and act as if he was a registered member of the Democratic party. How about he was just a nut case and his brain was warped?
I had no idea that the Daily Kos had this much influence on the contributors to this site.
What’s happening to the conservative movement? Limbaugh rants that the Holocaust shooter was really a liberal and everyone caves and nods in agreement. Gaffneny writes that Obama is really “America’s First Muslim President” and cites a bunch of lame reasons for his claim and not one conservative with any horsepower expresses anything related to common sense regarding his article in the Washington Times. What’s going on? Are Conservatives doomed to be the laughing stock of the nation with their hairbrained declarations? And you think Daily Kos is off the wall? Come on now, pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off and get with being a responsible movement.
Nah, the true Conservative movement is three doors down.
Moe Lane Friday, June 12th at 12:28AM EDT (link)This is the O’Henry Literary Appreciation Society. Meets alternate Fridays; bring your own candy bars.
Now shoo.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
A registered member of the Democratic Party
Neil Stevens Friday, June 12th at 12:40AM EDT (link)You mean like Fred Phelps, head of Westboro Baptist Church, of “God Hates F****” fame?
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Is that the best you can do.
Leopard1996 Friday, June 12th at 3:21PM EDT (link)As far as I can see we are dusting ourselves off just fine. I personally don’t like the hypocrisy from the media whose thoughts are always to pin jackballs like this guy and the guy who whacked Tiller on mainstream conservatives, without any look into the real ideology of the jackball. Now the guy who whacked Tiller was probably someone against abortion yes, I will concede that, but the majority of us here at least from what I can see would rather win or lose this battle in the court of ideas, and through proper electoral process. As for the neo-nazi piece of garbage, look at what the Nazi’s stood for (Govenment control of everything), and then compare that to what you read here, (Smaller government, individual freedoms, etc.) and see if he stacks up better here or over on the lib sites who want the govenment to hold their hand while taking a crap because they are so inept to do it theirselves. Now if you are just a troll, I tell you to go screw, and tell someone who really gives a damn about your opinion.
“The accumluated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen
George Soros is calling
steelstand Friday, June 12th at 3:29PM EDT (link)Perhaps moveon.org is more your style.
Don't Be Frightened
OccamsRazor Friday, June 12th at 12:48AM EDT (link)Don’t project so much and certianly don’t protesteth so much.
Democrat
OccamsRazor Friday, June 12th at 12:50AM EDT (link)Pardon my language. I missed the ‘reply’ button there in response to ‘oldie’.