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Watch me Get the ACORN Lawsuit Dismissed in 15 Minutes (or Less)

UPDATE: Welcome, Hot Air commenters! Please feel free to go here for further exposition of this post.

UPDATE 2: Welcome, Ace of Spades readers! I have included a further update here.

I will keep this simple.  Here is the text of the suit, which is brought under the MD Wiretap Act. The suit alleges that Andrew Breitbart, working in concert with O’Keefe and Giles, intercepted an “oral communication” using an electronic device, which would indeed be a violation of the act.  The problem, however, is that the statute specifically defines “oral communication” in section 10-401(2)(i) as: “any conversation or words spoken to or by any person in private conversation.”

What this means, as established by the clear text of the statute (and Maryland caselaw, including Fearnow v. Chesapeake & Potomac Tel. Co. of Maryland, 342 Md. 363 (Md. 1996)) is that at least one of the parties to the conversation must have had a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation. In other words, if someone stands up in the town square and shouts out loud and someone else records it, that is not a violation of the act. 

The problem for ACORN is that, as a matter of law, the employees at ACORN had no reasonable expectation of privacy in what they said to members of the public who entered their offices.  As made clear by Katz v. United States and its progeny (made applicable specifically to the Maryland Wiretap Act by cases such as Malpas v. State, 695 A.2d 588, 595 (Md. Ct. Spec. App. 1997)), “What a person exposes knowingly to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection.”

Get that? The conversations in question were knowingly exposed in a place of business to two customers who walked in off the streets. There is and can be absolutely no expectation of privacy for the ACORN employees in question.  As such, the conversations are not “private conversations” under the Maryland Wiretap Act as a matter of law.  I found all this in a matter of 15 minutes on Lexis.  I’m sure another 15 (which I don’t have) will find numerous directly applicable precedents under Katz that are completely factually indistinguishable from the present case.  In other words, this case is so totally without legal merit the very filing of it is almost sanctionable.  And putting “they had a reasonable expectation of privacy” in the complaint is not enough for this claim to survive summary dismissal; the court does not have to accept conclusory statements and legal conclusions.

Furthermore, to the extent that ACORN wants to go after Breitbart (and I hear they are wanting to go after Fox next!) for publishing this information of clear public concern, they might want to check the First Amendment jurisprudence of the United States Supreme Court on that question before getting themselves in further trouble.

COMMENTS

  • billyd

    Please don’t get it dismissed in 15 minutes or less. We need more time to request documents and information from Acorn before they realize that they have no chance in haties of winning this suit.
    At least wait for the discovery process to be established and well underway.

    Thanks

    • bs
    • Aaron Gardner

      I doubt that Breitbart will look to get this dismissed….he dared them to file a suit against him.

      • billyd

        I would like to see this brought to trial. Followed out to the point of closing arguments, just so everything brought up in the trial was public record, and then Leon’s argument brought up. As in… Do you have anything to add before closing arguments…. “Just one thing your honor. We move for dismissal on the grounds of”…… HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    • 6eorge Jetson

      Barney Frank was on O’Reilly tonight, and even he wouldn’t defend ACORN.

      He wouldn’t give out credit, but he was reluctantly critical of ACORN and wouldn’t defend them.

      Why? Hmmn…. Maybe he wants ACORN to leave the scene as quickly as possible. What ties will be found to the Dems? And at the very least, the longer ACORN stays on the scene during the upcoming 2010 campaign season, the worse the issue will hurt the Dems.

      • http://vision4freedom.net freetexpal

        Very astute observation, Mr. Jetson.

        My question is what did Barney Frank know, and when did he know it?

    • winghunter1

      Billy is right. Get all the information on ACORN you never even dreamed of having to report on handed to you on a golden platter!

      Who knows how far this information could help America rid us of these treasonous parasites!

  • drrhythm

    Greta Van Sustren was absolutely giddy during the last segment of her show this evening. Visions of interrogatories, depositions, and documents were dancing in her head.

    “Now ACORN has to come to them” (I’m paraphrasing) she exclaimed, about five times. In fact, she wished ACORN would sue her so she wouldn’t have to leave her set to do any investigating.

    ACORN may have really put pride (or lust for revenge) before practicality, and we all know pride cometh before the fall.

    • AceInTX

      Pride goeth before destruction
      and a haughty spirit before a fall

  • Jack_Savage

    And the Dems raised hell about him and 8 others, saying that Iglesias’ firing was the “most controversial”. Idiots.
    I guess we know who wasn’t doing their job now, huh? I wonder if Iglesias will be part of ACORN’s defense team…

  • technokrat

    but.. isn’t a reasonable expectation that a housing counseling session with a client would be a private conversation?

    • Dan McLaughlin

      Not the counselor.

      • UpLateAgain

        accept the argument that ACORN personnel were engaging in counseling that if acted upon would constitute criminal acts, and had the potential to evolve into criminal conspiracy. They then argue criminal conspiracy is by its nature a matter expected to be conducted strictly between/among the conspirators, and therefore there exists “a reasonable expectation of privacy”. I’m just sayin’…….

        Since no act in the furtherance of anything illegal was actually accomplished, they can’t tag ACORN for either the actual criminal act or for conspiracy, but I can see a judge finding an expectation of privacy in attempting to conspire. I’ve seen judges do dumber things….

        • http://www.gopmom.com GOPMOM

          will factor in to this – even a Lefty, empathetic judge might think twice about his reelection before allowing this.

          This is the most concise explanation I’ve seen about how this will not fly as a suit. But I don’t think we can get carried away. While I am thrilled to see ACORN revealed in anyway (I’m still waiting for the Ohio and Missouri election fraud investigations to be finalized), I also believe we need to be vigilant about where they are funneling their funds and resources – even as we celebrate their destruction. The Left does not give up this easily. What we, as smart, informed voters, need to be pushing for is less Fed money across the board to orgs like this. As much as I would like to see dozens of heads to roll over this, the entire system is rife with corruption – get rid of the system.

          • AceInTX

            the temptation and ability to use these funds in corrupt ways is just too much…not only should Bush’s faith based initiative been shot down sumarily…but all funding for private entities should be stopped…period!

          • fleta

            iT IS SURPRISING THAT AN ORGANIZATION WITH SO MUCH KNOWN CORRUPTION, WOULD RISK FILING A SUIT AGAINST THE SAME TAXPAYERS WHO HAD NO SAY IN WHERE THEIR TAX MONEY WAS GOING. iF ACORN HAD BEEN GETTING OUT THE VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN OR LIBERTARIAN THE SAME WAY ACORN DID WITH THEIR MANY INSTANCES OF VOTER FRAUD, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN IMMEDIATELY. FOR THE cEO TO WANT TO APPOINT HER OWN PERSON TO DO AN AUDIT IS A JOKE. SHE MUST THINK WE ARE AS STUPID AS THOSE RUNNING THAT OFFICE WERE. IMAGINE! GOING ALONG WITH BRINGING UNDERAGE GIRLS TO THE USA AND TEACHING THEM THE ‘”pERFORMING aRT” OF PROSTITUTION. SICK SICK SICK!!!

          • The_Gadfly

            But Baltimore is even more of a cesspit than DC on the political corruption front. I have no problems expecting a judge from there to ignore the abhorrence of what is on the tapes. I wouldn’t even be surprised if one of them were able to rationalize that no felony or misdemeanor took place because there was no exchange of anything of actual value, and ACORN filed no improper paperwork on behalf of either the pimp or the prostitute.

            Spot on about the vigilance and keeping the pressure on Congress to investigate fully. I wish we could count on the FBI to investigate, but given what The Big 0* did with the Black Panthers case in Philly, I wouldn’t fault any agent who doesn’t want to get involved.

            *Yeah, I know technically it was his AG, but as the original dirty Harry once said “The buck stops here,” which would be with The Big 0.

      • rosannagerbino

        Public Funds, Public Organization, Public Interview.

        If a Tree falls in the Forest, and no one is in the Forest to hear it,
        DOES IT MAKE A SOUND?

        Rosanna

    • PaulD

      I agree that standing alone, there is a good argument that there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation. I would, however, make the following additional observations that I think nail it down. There were at least two ACORN employees present during the conversation. They were in aiding and abetting what they believed was a criminal enterprise, which is itself a crime.
      Each had a fiduciary duty as employees of ACORN to report the criminal activity of the co-worker or , at the very least, the breach of their employer’s internal policies. I know that if it were revealed that I knew that one of my collegues was engaged in criminal activity that would bring my employer into disrepute, I would expect that I could be fired if I failed to report it.
      If such a fiduciary duty is implied by law, or is expressly stated in the employment policies of ACORN, then neither employee could claim they had a reasonable expectation that the conversation would remain private.
      Moreover, I suspect that one could find a federal statute or regulation that imposes a duty to report unlawful activity of an entity that is supported by federal funds. Again, this would abrogate any expectation of privacy.

      • UpLateAgain

        But what is going to be determinant is the particular verbiage of the laws in effect in the jurisdictions where the events took place. In California, for example, no aiding and abetting, or even conspiracy to commit a crime took place. That is because conspiracy requires not just discussion of how to commit a crime, but an act in the furtherance thereof, and aiding and abetting requires an act of collusion or furtherance of the crime or destruction of evidence or otherwise assisting a perpetrator when a crime has actually been committed (which includes attempt to actually commit the crime – because ‘attempt’ is a crime).

        You can talk about committing a crime all day long, give advice on the best ways to do it (our prisons are universities dedicated to this course of study), but until you actually commit an act in the furtherance of the crime you discuss, or assist the perp when the crime is actually committed or attempted, NO crime has taken place. And since O’Keefe wasn’t actually going into the whoring business, no D.A. is going to waste the taxpayers’ money trying to prosecute this. The Corpus just isn’t there.

        As to the federal aspects of required reporting of knowledge of abuse of taxpayer-funded enterprises… I’m not all that familiar with federal law, but I would bet that a case could be more easily made there.

        • SilverhairedSurfer

          It’s better to HAVE it and NOT need it, than to NEED it and NOT have it.

  • JDidSaint

    I just started law school this year so I certainly don’t have a great grasp on this but with those precedents, this case should be DOA.

    It will be interesting to see how the intentional infliction of emotional distress charges go… I guess it’s possible that they suffered emotional distress, but so do murders when they’re shipped off to jail…

    • Achance

      rather than the politics of the case and the prejudices of the jury.

  • Finrod

    After all, didn’t they lose their business license in 2006 and here they are before a judge pretending to be a business. Wham, move straight to sentencing.

    • Duke

      What if Breitbart/Giles/Fox countersued ACORN for brining a law suit that was diametrically in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and did so for the purpose of depriving defendant of his/her/their rights under the first amendment? Could damages (considering the massive amounts of $$$ in the pirate’s treasure chest) amount to millions?

      Oh, what the heck, let’s be consistent and make it trillions!

  • Achance

    Don’t need no stinkin’ law. OJ’s still looking for the real killer. Probably have trouble in whatever passes for a criminal appellate court in MD too. Then you have to find a federal question, money, and a damned good lawyer to get into the federal system. And by then, the feds may have decided that The One really should have his way.

    Dunno, done a lot of arbitrations, labor board hearings, and worked on a lot of court cases; ain’t much on guaranteeing anything and firmly believe that it is better to know the politics than the law.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      Diversity jurisdiction here – complete diversity exists, no Maryland defendants, over $75K at issue in the suit. This is automatically removable to Federal Court as a matter of course.

      Arbitrations and labor board hearings are not the D.Md.

      • Achance

        with DLs. if it goes to a jury, that jury’s going to like ACORN a whole lot better than they like a bunch of soda crackers in suits.

        • Streiff

          Baltimore federal juries are drawn from a state wide jury pool. While what you say would be true if this were tried in federal court, a state wide jury, or even a jury from Baltimore County, is not going to do a Baltimore City ACORN office any favors.

  • gretske

    Mike Wallace would be on death row. This is a ridiculous lawsuit. Even if they win the suit, they will lose ACORN in the discovery process. Imagine how many felonies will be exposed as ACORN is forced to turn over document after document. The connections to George Soros, and Barack Obama will be clearly exposed for all to see.

    • The_Gadfly

      the hidden microphone. It was one of the key elements Clinton used to try to silence Linda Tripp over the Lewinsky tapes. I thought that one was a good instance to challenge the constitutionality of the law on the basis that it deprived Linda Tripp of the ability to defend herself, but nothing ever happened.

  • penguin2

    Conversations between lawyers and clients, doctors and patients are legally confidential. How does “expectation of privacy” fit in? Also, wouldn’t the clients (O’Keefe and Hannah) be the ones concerned about their privacy vs an Acorn official?

    In the end it comes down to the same thought process. People being more concerned about being found out vs the crime/corruption uncovered.

  • wolfgang

    …where they feel it a sacred Constitutional right to cavort and frolic like conjoined twins, back to front, ad nauseum, forever and ever.
    Did you not watch the Massachussets Democrats twist, distort, and convolute a piece of legislation designed to prevent the possible nomination of a Republican to the US Senate four years, into a totally different piece of legislation designed to prevent the election of a Republican to the US Senate this year?
    Do you remember Rick Torricelli for Senate in NJ? Or rather John Corzine for Senate in NJ? Or John Corzine for Governor in NJ?
    The Maryland Democratic Party will see to it that these individuals are dealt with, for exposing and betraying a heretofore sacred, sacrosanct Democratic Institution’s warts and necrotic parts for all the world to see, as harshly as possible, even if the state has to legislate that from now on the sun will rise in the West and set in the East, or that all its citizens have to, from now on, refer to black as white and white as black.
    Its the Democratic, and now the Chicago Way, as well. Teddy would be so proud. Boss Tweed and the other ghosts of Tammany Hall too.

    • http://www.werushdaily.com Rightshift

      … there action means little…

      They only have enough power that we grant them. Intimidation tactics, etc… You get a threatening phone call… hang up… laugh… tell them to ‘bring it’…. There nose can be bloodied back just as hard.

      What was it that Chris Wallace said the other day? Oh yes, “this White House is the biggest bunch of cry babies he’s seen in his 30 years in Washington.” Goes the same for their minions, they’ve been cry babies for years.

      If they have warts, then its up to us to bring the Compound W! ;-)

  • http://www.werushdaily.com Rightshift

    Then you have to find a federal question, money, and a damned good lawyer to get into the federal system. And by then, the feds may have decided that The One really should have his way.

    I’m not a lawyer, but hearing audio recordings of arguments here and there where you can just tell the judge’s mind was made up no matter what he heard… If the judges make up their minds before they even hear a case… that’s frightening… It bears repeating… is it a court of law, or an Australian petting zoo?

  • archer52

    Two quick points on your article.

    First, you are right about the suit on its face, BUT, we aren’t living in normal times under normal circumstances. We just had a Senator order the HHS to silence his critics and keep them from telling the truth. What?? Did I wake up in Venezuela, already? I’m not sure he- 1. has the power to order HHS to do anything without Obama’s okay. 2. that the HHS has the power in the first place. But there they are sending out letters like they were gods.

    In THAT environment, things may not go as smoothly as you think. Especially, if they are demanding trial by jury (which they are)

    Being sued is stressful, even if you are in the right. This is about intimidation. Believe me, been there, done that.

    Second, your points on the law are solid. The real key is in this passage of the ruling:

    (d) In New York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U.S. 713, this Court upheld the press? right to publish information of great public concern obtained from documents stolen by a third party. In so doing, this Court focused on the stolen documents? character and the consequences of public disclosure, not on the fact that the documents were stolen. Ibid. It also left open the question whether, in cases where information has been acquired unlawfully by a newspaper or by a source, government may punish not only the unlawful acquisition, but also the ensuing publication. Florida Star v. B. J. F., 491 U.S. 524, 535, n. 8. The issue here is a narrower version of that question: Where the publisher has lawfully obtained information from a source who obtained it unlawfully, may the government punish the ensuing publication based on the defect in a chain? The Court?s refusal to construe the issue more broadly is consistent with its repeated refusal to answer categorically whether the publication of truthful information may ever be punished consistent with the First Amendment. Accordingly, the Court considers whether, given the facts here, the interests served by ?2511(1)(c) justify its restrictions on speech. Pp. 12?14.

    Historically the courts rule that the right of the public to know about wrongful acts outweighs the right to privacy of the offender. Especially when it involves the press.

    Still, O’keefe and that girl’s lives are going to be turned upside down now because since they are going to be involved in a lawsuit, the green light is on for any “legitimate” investigations into their past.

    It’s not about winning, it is about destroying.

    • http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

      arguing that the “expectation of privacy” of the recorded individuals is soooo laughable in that I am betting that most of them could not spell it and most would assume it to be related to genetalia.

    • mosander

      It just occurred to me that since she was not perpetrating a crime, would this not go to J&D court? Maybe I heard her age incorrectly. Anyway, Go, Wolf, Go!!
      I think ACORN has about 17 indictments for voter fraud in a number to states before this all happened. Bring back ethics and the constitutional law!!

      • Achance

        some are portraying her to be. She’s been groomed by some of the conservative foundations focussing on journalism. O’Keefe was involved in getting the Planned Parenthood recordings of making contributions specifically for Black abortions and not reporting the statutory rapists of young girls seeking abortions.

    • 6eorge Jetson

      donation links can be found at the home page of Briebart’s BigGovernment.com

  • http://UnitedConservativesofVirginia Cargosquid

    Lawsuit? “Don’t throw me into that there Briar patch, Brer Bear! I couldn’t stand it!”

  • AceInTX

    I’m not an atty but I know enough to know that discovery rules will force them to open the books on the whole operation…I’f I’m wrong on that I’m sure one of the fine Attys here will correct it…

    The other question would be…is this statute applicable to a journalist or publication engaged in exercising freedom of the press, (to conduct public interest investigations) guaranteed to them under the first Amendment

    • http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

      to represent Hannah and James on a “Whistleblower” claim. With ACORN (soon to be NORCA) getting all those Federal Funds and so obviously committing criminal acts with them, the 30% share could be a goldmine.

  • AceInTX

    why should anyone be entitled to an expectation of privacy while engaged in a criminal act?

    • Leon H. Wolf

      The Fourth Amendment is primarily useful to shield criminal activity, Ace.

      • AceInTX

        in this case or cases like it…however…I don’t see how the Forth Amendment applies since the Bill of rRghts was meant to set limits on government authority and state what Governments are and are not allowed to do…What we are talking about here are private citizens…and arguably journalists exercising their First Amendment right to investigate the abuses of taxpayer resources by a quasi government private entity, (doing the government’s bidding with tax payer funds).

  • gbake1

    Yes I hope it goes to trial. It will go deep and high up you can bet on that. Alot of polititians are backing away from Acorn ” I wonder Why “. ?? There’s alot of Dems in congress that have, and had their slimy hands in Acorn. They will be caught and implicated during descovery and the trial. You can bet they are covering their a** right now.

  • larryp

    to carry the job of Acorn, There is Apollo,Tides, New Party, The other Commie
    one-something like One-Way Party. Right now it is a submarine action and they are moving files over to the other groups. They will not miss a beat.
    They will throw a few under th bus for now and know that they will be sprung at swomepointg and paid (off) handomely.

    Any other ones that resign Like Van Jones are already in an office with a paycheck carrying on sub-rosa.

    Fifth Column,

    • The_Gadfly

      Glen Beck has been saying “this isn’t about ACORN or Van Jones.”

      But discovery at ACORN? Now that’s an offer we can’t refuse! Because like it or not, until ACORN filed suite, while what was on the tapes was pretty appalling, it was still a legally workable defense that ACORN itself was unaware of the activities and that it’s official policies state otherwise, and that the employees were the sole source of the problem. Even if James and Hannah have 20 offices on tape, that can’t constitute more than a small percentage of their offices. But now that ACORN is suing, you can go for discovery of documents that counter that claim. And once you have those documents….

      Yeah, you keep pulling until the whole tangled ball is undone, no matter where it leads.

      • http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

        n/t

  • sermonfromthemount

    With the disgrace in the White House surrounded by his unwashed street scum and tax cheats, anything is possible under the current political conditions!!

    Look at the garbage that was just appointed to our Supreme Court!!

    Need I say more??

    • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

      Particularly vile is calling Justice Sotomayer garbage. This is gutter language worthy of the Final Solution, not political debate. We disagree with her jurisprudence, but she is an intelligent person who has employed here talents wisely. Calling her garbage demeans only you, not her.

      Calling Obama’s Communist advisors and czars “unwashed street scum” again contributes nothing to the conversation. RedState is about building up conservatism and Republicans, not useless vituperation that only drives potential converts away.

      Need I say more??

      You’ve said too much already. Indeed, saying nothing at all here would have been best.

      • AceInTX

        cause I think he summed up things quite nicely.

        :>)

        • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

          …so no snark here.

          My complaint about “unwashed street scum” is really more advice that this kind of crudity is really not very effective in advancing one’s argument. More apropos invective is in order, something like “no-goodnik Communists”. Something a bit more creative or descriptive.

          On the other hand, I continue to take offense at calling Justice Sotomayer “garbage”. There are a few people in this world who have so degaded their humanity that their worth to the world is not more than that of garbage, something to be discarded as worthless – but Justice Sotomayer doesn’t come remotely close to such a judgment.

          Also, this calling people as garbage represents the way that the left views people, devoid of intrinsic worth, just protoplasm to be manipulated or discarded at will in the service of a greater “good” that the enlightened leaders are in possession of and which these leaders will impose with the coercive power of the state to pursue after their utopian visions that have led to the most evil chapters in human history.

          And have no qualms in calling such designs profoundly evil and the pursuit of these end despicable and those who characteristically practice such utilitarian coercion to be enemies of freedom, etc.

          But let’s be very careful whom we call garbage, lest by taking on the practices of the left we find ourselves desensitized and thus less effective.

          • http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

            We shouldn’t go around calling other people garbage unless they deserve it.

            Like Jimmy Carter, he really really deserves it.

          • AceInTX
  • Marcus_Traianus

    which may include RICO and 31 U.S.C. ?? 3729-3733.

    The discovery alone is going to provide fodder for at least the next year. It will also provide very deep insight into Obama and Democrats workings with ACORN.

    My only concern is ACORN, et al will start destroying the paper trail.

    If I am the defendants lawyers, I am also casting a very wide net on the counter claims, potentially ensnaring the Democrats who have met or had phone conversations with ACORN.

    So although “15 Minutes” is a very nice headline, I will take counter claims for $100 Monty.

    • http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

      interference in the right of voters to determine their own candidates.

      Not one Red Dime!

  • Bill45

    Your post goes to the merit, or lack of merit of Acorn;s suit, But ACORN’s bigger problem may be its own lawyers and the low quality of their legal advice.

    There are three plaintiff’s — Acorn and the two women who were videotaped. All three are represented by the same attorneys and all three make identical claims.

    But Acorn fired the two other plaintiffs. Bizarrely, the complaint in paragraph 22 fudges that essential fact by claiming that as a result of what O’Keefe, Giles and Breitbart supposedly did those two women “lost their employment” with Acorn, as if Acorn had nothing to do with firing them.

    That is a textbook conflict of interest for the lawyers filing this claim.

    • The_Gadfly

      not a problem for the prosecution. More like an opportunity for them.

      Pass the popcorn, please.

      • http://www.brusbits.blogspot.com twobeers

        There are huge problems in paragraph 22 for ACORN, the two individual plaintiffs, and plaintiffs’ counsel. First, Breitbart, Giles, and O’Keefe will likely file a motion to disqualify plaintiffs’ counsel from representing any of the plaintiffs because of the conflict of interest that exists among ACORN and the individual plaintiffs. This will force ACORN and the two individuals to get separate counsel and will likely damage the plaintiffs’ credibility with the court.

        Second, I think that there is a strong likelihood that Breitbart, Giles, and O’Keefe will seek sanctions against Plaintiffs’ counsel. Counsel had a duty to conduct a pre-suit investigation to determine whether there exists a good faith basis in law and fact for filing a complaint. Counsequently, counsel either knew or reasonably should have known that ACORN made an independent decision to terminate the two employees based upon their misconduct and that the defendants, therefore, could not have been the direct and proximate cause of the claimed injury to the individual plaintiffs.

        Now, if you could please pass the popcorn, I would be most appreciative.

  • Bill45

    This thing is a like an exam in Professional Responsibility.

    Why aren’t the Acorn employees in the video being prosecuted for the unauthorized practice of law?

    Neither

    • AceInTX
  • Xasteius

    Acorns roasting on an open fire….

    • redneck_hippie

      Just like a squirrel

      Bury ACORN.

      It was a darn big sign, and permanent-looking, too.

      Showed up right after the DC march.

  • greenlantern1

    Dear Sirs,
    The Constitution is not all fun and games.
    For example, we all remember Senator Joseph McCarthy’s fifth amendment communitst and Oliver North’s fifth amendment Americanism.
    Supposedly, you guys are against child prostitution.
    How about the polygamous marriages performed by a breakaway Mormon sect in Texas?
    The authorities were called in on that one because children were involved.
    I wonder. If the details finally did come out about the Hughes loan, would anyone claim that privacy was violated?
    Clifford Spencer

    • DONTTREADONME
    • Achance

      Fool, none of that lefty cant has even a thing to do with whether there was an expectation of privacy in a public office belonging to ACORN. Now, go back to masturbating on your keyboard.

      Oh, and BTW, McCarthy was right; they were communists.

      • redneck_hippie

        and there never have been, ever, any such thing as a communist in any place except for the Soviet Union. So there.

        Wanna see my hockey stick?

    • Aaron Gardner

      Interesting set of letters to the editor of Salon.com you got going on there.

    • Aaron Gardner

      The original Boston Tea Party was quite different than the tea parties that Limbaugh claims that he is for.

      It included indian disguises, criminal trespass, robbery of the ship’s cargo and vandalism by throwing the tea in the harbor.

      What happened to respect for private property?

      Why do you hate America and it’s founding?

  • kyoufuu

    Considering the fact that the ACORN employees believed to duo were committing a crime, it’s not unreasonable to think that the employees expected O’Keefe and Giles to not talk about what advice was given in the office. In other words, they expect the conversation to be confined to the office (what goes on at ACORN stays at ACORN) because to not do so would open up the possibility of criminal charges if law enforcement was made aware.

    But my understanding is that conspiracy and facilitation trumps the notion of privilege and privacy. If a lawyer tells a client that the only way to get custody of thier children is to kill their significant other, any evidence implicating the lawyer (email, phone logs, etc) is not privileged. Maybe I’m misunderstanding.

    I cannot fully agree with the idea that it’s not private because they walked in off the street. I’ll have to read the updates for further clarification of your points. I can agree that it might not be private because, if I recall correctly, they were giving the advice with the doors to the conference room open, which could permit others to hear what was being said.

    • cwilson

      You and I are involved in a criminal conspiracy, and I turn state’s evidence. You can’t claim that because we were discussing violating the law, you obviously had a legal expectation of privacy in assuming I wouldn’t talk about it, and therefore my testimony should be constitutionally barred.

      To raise that defense is to admit the underlying crime.

      • kyoufuu

        But I’ll amend my statement to say that their expectation of privacy was not reasonable.

  • VinceP1974

    I ran across this analysis of the MD Wiretapping Law that was made to answer the question:

    Do police video/audio recordings of things like traffic stops violate the MD Law.

    http://www.oag.state.md.us/Opinions/2000/85oag225.pdf

    In various places in the document, author states:

    The Wiretap Act qualifies its prohibitions by specifying a
    number of circumstances in which a person may lawfully intercept
    a wire, oral, or electronic communication. See CJ ?10-402(c).

    In limited circumstances involving the investigation of
    certain enumerated crimes, the Act also permits an interception with the consent of only one party – a law enforcement officer or the officer?s agent. CJ ?10-402(c)(2).

    [Vince: I dont know if the statute limits the exception only to law enforcement.. or if it was phrased this way because the paper was in the context of the police department]

    The statute permits interceptions with one-party consent for
    investigations of the following offenses:

    Murder, kidnaping, rape, a sexual offense in the
    first or second degree, child abuse, child pornography, … gambling, robbery, any felony
    punishable under the ?Arson and Burning?
    subheading of Article 27, bribery, extortion, …
    dealing in controlled dangerous substances, …
    fraudulent insurance acts, … offenses relating to
    destructive devices…, or any conspiracy or
    solicitation to commit any of these offenses, or
    where any person has created a barricade situation
    and probable cause exists for the investigative or
    law enforcement officer to believe a hostage or
    hostages may be involved….
    CJ ?10-402(c)(2).