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A Topic for Discussion: Jindal’s Approach to Education in LA

Per  Reuters:

Starting this fall, thousands of poor and middle-class kids will get vouchers covering the full cost of tuition at more than 120 private schools across Louisiana, including small, Bible-based church schools.

The following year, students of any income will be eligible for mini-vouchers that they can use to pay a range of private-sector vendors for classes and apprenticeships not offered in traditional public schools. The money can go to industry trade groups, businesses, online schools and tutors, among others.

Every time a student receives a voucher of either type, his local public school will lose a chunk of state funding.

“We are changing the way we deliver education,” said Governor Bobby Jindal, a Republican who muscled the plan through the legislature this spring over fierce objections from Democrats and teachers unions. “We are letting parents decide what’s best for their children, not government.”

First comment I’d make…if you go back and read the entire article at Reuters, keep in mind that they would be biased against this type of approach.  They aren’t necessarily as biased as other organizations, such as NYT, would be, but they are biased all the same.

We all know our current education system is failing and failing miserably in the quality of education that is being provided to young Americans.  Most of us agree that this needs to change.  But when it comes to what kind of approach is taken…we don’t always agree on that as much.

My own opinion…

One part of being American that I believe we very badly need to hold on these days is the “spirit of independence”, i.e. finding our own way to succeed in things.  For years on end, the left has been defining a scope of “what is acceptable” for our society, including education.  It isn’t working and won’t get any better as long as Unions continue to stick their grubby fingers into it for the purpose of political power, money, etc.  Through this, they have granted an ever-increasing level of power and control to government.

Any changes we attempt to make on the issue of education is going to require taking a risk at this point.  We’ve existed for so long within a specific scope of standards and patterns of behavior where provision of education is concerned that it could be difficult to overcome.  We will hear the left attempt to make use of everything they can find to stir up the need for government to define this for us and fear of failure if we do not conform to and adhere to this way of thinking, which I find as being the ultimate irony given the totally ridiculous example of failure that our education system has become over the years.

The approach Jindal is taking opens up the doors to a lot of different possibilities.  It’s a challenge, and the question now is whether or not we still have what it takes, as a society of free and independent people, to rise to meet that challenge.

That’s my opinion.

I’m posting this more for the purpose of discussion between us in evaluating the kind of approach that Jindal is taking in LA.  So, speak freely about it…both good and bad, strengths and weaknesses.

 

COMMENTS

  • trimulchio

    weaning people off government schools.

    In NYS, Educational “Reform” is being done by establishing teacher “standards” that will probably eliminate a lot of the longer-serving (hence, better paid) teachers. However, these standards are blunt instruments, with no pretense of being “case-mix adjusted.” (Think of it this way, more of famous heart-surgeon Denton Cooley’s patients dies or got sicker than the average heart surgeon because his competence drew sicker patients with more complicated cases.)

    • lineholder

      will you post any links you might have about the revision of these teacher ‘standards”?

      I’ve heard some very good reports about a few charter schools in NYC, and I’ve also heard about how these schools have faced opposition from the NAACP (which is another example of irony, given that the charter schools in question serve primarily minorities).

      The bonds of loyalty on the left run so deep in a state like NY that it will be difficult for things to change unless it can be proven that change is better by far than the current reality.

      Maybe states like LA will give NY that chance!

  • westcoastpatriette

    has over the tax dollars for our public schools. It opens up the competition and makes a way for kids trapped in these failing indoctrination centers that we call schools to get a better education and with it, a chance to succeed. And I love that the vouchers can be used in private parochial and church schools. Our kids should not be forced to go to secular God-marginalizing — if not out-right hating — institutions.

    Good for Governor Jindal.

    • lineholder

      the kind of approach Jindal is taking leaves so many options open to be considered that it is mind-boggling!

      And I really like the fact that they are placing more responsibility for the decision-making process into the hands of parents because I think it is more likely to get parents personally invested more than we’ve been inclined to see.

  • lineholder

    I had posted this diary shortly before I went in to work this afternoon. While I was at work, I had an opportunity to talk to two of my co-workers, both females, both who have been/are studying for career fields in education. (I say “have been” because one of them graduated in May)

    One of the young ladies (newly graduated) is white and grew up in the suburbs. The other young lady is black and went to inner city schools all her life. Both have been/are attending a local college (liberal education program)

    I told them about what is transpiring in LA. Both of them were aghast at first…not follow the status quo? Change the methodology? “It can’t be done!”

    They couldn’t understand why I was so excited about this. You’re kidding, right? Wide open opportunity to completely and totally revolutionize how education is provided, with a much greater chance of providing a higher quality education that might exceed above and beyond anyone’s expectations? What’s not to be excited about in that???

    I went into this rambling expose for a few minutes…lots of “what if” kind of questions…talked about using IT (particularly interactive), individualized teaching methods, coming up with co-op ventures, looking into apprenticeships…and my expose ended with me making comments of “think outside the box…think cutting edge…think pioneering spirit…think POTENTIAL!!!”

    Now, I don’t know about other people, but when I have conversations where what I’m trying to convey is the potential that exists…some people get it right off the bat. Other people…not so much. So I’ve learned to simply watch people’s faces, to see if the “lightbulb” goes on in their minds, so to speak.

    The lightbulb went on for the young black lady first. The young white lady…she didn’t see the quality of education as being “that bad”, and she didn’t see that it was “worth the risk” of changing the entire system. She even said as much.

    The young lady who is black pretty well lost it at that point, and I can’t repeat exactly what she said because it included quite a few expletives.

    But she ended up by looking the other young lady in the face and saying “do you want to be just a teacher or do you want to be a GOOD teacher?”

    Maybe it’s a teacher thing, but the lightbulb went on for the other young lady as well at that point.

    It was AMAZING!!! I loved it! Every minute of it!!!

    I just wanted to share that with everyone at RS.

    • checkmate2012

      was an eye-opener. Not surprising. Obviously both ladies are bright, but the black lady who lived in “the system” saw the possibilty of changing the status quo in which she was raised. The white lady probably felt she had a fairly good education so why rock the boat.

      Jindal’s idea is brilliant in that it takes the alloted dollars away from the public system which should give innovators incentives and hopefully will make the pulic system compete by getting better…one hopes.

      LA has had a unique opportunity with charter schools after Katrina so will be interesting to see the results.

      • lineholder

        played into their responses in the conversation as well, checkmate2012. But I was glad to see a flash of personal pride on both sides when it came down to being a GOOD teacher.

        About the brilliance of Jindal’s approach to this…you have to excuse me a bit, but my brain has been running overload in looking at the scope of potential on this one. I am excited about it, and I hope with everything in me that they find a way to succeed.

        • checkmate2012

          So it seems to me that the city governments could hold competitive bids for students in existing school districts like any other government purchase and award the bid based on curriculum, mission statement, specific goals and objectives, benefits and cost per student.

          Hopefully this would get the public system off their duffs to compete with students in mind. If not, they lose out. It would take some time to implement but a few districts could be used as test cases.

          • lineholder

            just in looking at IT options, particularly interactive options…not only could the delivery and quality of education improve, but it would stimulate a type of economic activity that has been very limited in the past because of the control that Unions have had preventing expansion in this area.

            Where apprenticeships are concerned…I know that the state of SC has taken a rather different approach than a lot of other states have on vocational education. It was a matter of needs must at the time, and it has served the state well to take the approach that was taken. But for some students, (think high school age) they really aren’t well suited for college…they learn much more in a practical application context, and joint ventures with private sector businesses in the form of apprenticeships provide them with that kind of opportunity. The opportunity keeps the students motivate to learn the basics that are necessary. Drop out rate is less. And many of them end up becoming entrepreneurs of their own accord!

            As for local/city school costs…what’s to say that a new business offering educational services couldn’t lease an existing business structure from the city/county government?

            Lots of options all the way around!

          • checkmate2012

            Why our country decided to abondon them mostly I don’t know but think like you. College isn’t a right but it’s not right (a good) fit for many as they are unprepared, uninterested, etc. and then drop out.

            In my day, all the boys took shop class, auto-mechanics, wood-working, and loved it while learning a skill. Do they even have that stuff in schools anymore?

            Good stuff lineholder!

          • lineholder

            I don’t know if this applies state-wide, but I do know that it applies in the upstate area of SC.

            They have established a system between high school level vocational schools and local community colleges that allow students to finish high school with the first year of an associates degree completed. And it isn’t just the kind of course you’ve mentioned above…it also includes CNC machining, CAD, building construction, pre-nursing (those who complete still have to do practicals and apply for state licenses), and I think they are even including courses such as culinary and retail management these days. (Don’t quote me on the last one though…I’d have to check on that)

            If we can break away from the status quo that the Unions and the left go out of their way to keep us bound to, we have a LOT of options that would let us decrease costs, improve delivery, increase quality of education, and quite possibly support businesses and entrepreneurial activities within the local area.

  • PowerToThePeople

    similar to this passed here in SC but have been hit head on by every side. Until people realize education is not a right, it will be a hard battle.But the biggest battle is getting people to realize how much we spend per student, how poor our students are, how far we lag behind the rest of the world in the most important studies, and how the Department of Education is the biggest problem, and that private schools do offer a much better education and environment and can do it for much less than the public school system.If we can get them to understand this, getting vouchers will be a done deal.

    • lineholder

      I know the standards “Dems” answer, but are there any other groups in specific beyond just that? What argument is being against vouchers?

      I grew up in the state and still have family living there. I can pass any info you have along to them.

      • PowerToThePeople

        in the state congress along with many in the local areas. They argue based on many reasons, but some tend to be

        We can not afford it

        School system is so bad now, less funds will kill it

        Of course the obligatory, separation of church and state

        Will cost the teachers

        Will drive off the best teachers

        And so on

        One of the ladies leading the charge for the voucher system is Dianne Belsom, leader of the Laurens Tea Party and vice chair of the republican party.

        • lineholder

          I don’t know what the scope of the laws being considered in SC might be, but if it includes apprenticeships…that’s a good fit for SC. Or at least what I would consider a good fit.

          I grew up in the Greenville area, back in the days when the textile industry still existed rather heavily in the area. I don’t know if it was a decision made by the entire state or if it was decision made the Greenville County Council, but when textiles started leaving, they made the decision to take a proactive approach where vocational education was concerned, in the belief that it would allow them to attract other kinds of industries into the state. And they were correct…it did!

          The Dems don’t want to lose coastal areas in the state, and programs of any kind that encourage private sector activity are a threat. (And part of the entire brou-ha-ha with the NLRB wasn’t because the facility was going to a RTW state…it was the location of the facility…in a heavy D area)

          Just point me in the right direction if you can. I’d love to learn more about the approach SC is taking on this one.

          • PowerToThePeople

            and reply again tomorrow. It is nearly midnight here and church comes early in the morning.

            I will put together whatever you need and reply to this post tomorrow late afternoon.

          • lineholder

            I’m just north of you in NC, PTTP. But I’ll be in the Saluda area on Saturday…family reunion.

          • PowerToThePeople

            a few links and if you need more specific items, let me know.

            http://uspolitics.einnews.com/news/south-carolina-school-vouchers

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/10/1081961/-The-Scrooge-of-New-York-may-have-won-school-voucher-fight-in-S-C-

            http://palmettopublicrecord.org/2012/04/02/school-vouchers-bill-passes-the-house-this-is-what-7-million-will-buy-you-in-sc/

            http://freakoutnation.com/2012/04/09/south-carolina-people-losing-battle-to-new-york-grump-howard-richs-private-school-voucher-scheme-with-alec-similarities/

          • lineholder

            I’ll look over them later today.

            We can succeed in making these changes, PTTP. I know we can. But you’re right in saying that we have to convince the general public it’s worth the risk.

  • WA_Cowboy

    I’ve always thought that a voucher system is the right approach to “public” education, for all the reasons mentioned above both in the comments and the main text of the diary.

    Innovation, competition, breaking the stranglehold of the NEA, what’s not to like?

    • lineholder

      Jindal is leaving wide open, which I have to admit surprised me somewhat at first…but I really hope we’ll be seeing a good response to this, in the state of LA and elsewhere!

  • Vegas_Rick

    There’s very little downside to the Jindal approach. One challenge will be managing the drawdown of the public education system so that those who, for what ever reason, do not avail thewmselves of the vouchers, will not see a further decline in education quality.

    • lineholder

      It will be interesting to see how it unfolds. I don’t deny that we’re taking a risk with trying something different from the status quo, but even at that, it is possible that for those who do not make use of their vouchers, class sizes will be smaller, teachers will be more willing to keep in mind that they have competition…and it could very well increase the quality on that front, too, I guess.

  • Rusty_S

    What happens to the price of tuition as a result of the increased demand? And do these schools have the infrastructure to handle the increase? If this is as popular as I believe it will be, then I suppose eventually more private schools will be started, and existing ones will expand.

    But, I’m concerned tuition will increase in the same manner tuition for higher education has increased due to easy access to student loans.

    • lineholder

      The state of LA is the best example we have to date of what such a broad change in the education system might look like. The state has calculated an amount that it is already being spent per student and they are using this amount as a cap to vouchers. So, any organization or entity that qualified under the state program has to be able to operate within those limits.

      With public schools, the teachers earn an income and the state gets some of that income back via income taxes. With the type of options that LA is including in this legislation, with private sector schools/businesses, both the employee and even some of the business entities will be paying taxes, so the state won’t be investing as much into it as they would via the public school system. Plus, it releases the state from the bonds of Unions, which will give the state more autonomy on setting voucher amounts rather than having the cost of education driven by Union demands.

      Some of the nontraditional schools outside the public school system are just getting adjusted to the fact that the state of LA has given a green light to vouchers. They may not have everything they need in place right now, because this is so new, but I daresay that as enrollment increases into these schools, they’ll find a way to meet the demand.

      • Rusty_S

        I hope it goes well. I’m confident that if anyone has got a policy matter figured out from all sides, it’s Gov. Jindal.

  • runner12

    that the parochial/religious schools may be forced to change the way they teach and be told not to “proselytize” due to receiving federal funds. What has Jindhal instituted to prevent this from happening?

    I am all for school choice and competition, but I do not want the religious freedoms of these schools to be compromised as a result.

    In my opinion, we must break the stranglehold the unions have on the public school system if they are to be improved. They are one of the single largest obstacles to changes being made in the way we educate children. The resurgence of vocational schools would also be a step in the right direction.

    • lineholder

      pertaining to private Christian schools is being addressed, for the present time, via the approach of letting the parents decide what kind of education they want their children to have, not the government.

      But given the tone of Reuters articles linked to above, is it likely that the left will try to challenge this every chance they get? Yes, I think they will.

      I’m not sure what other answer to try to make other than what I’ve stated above. At least not until this voucher system gets up and running.

      Glad to hear that you’re in favor of it all the same. If the state of LA succeeds, this could be a breakthrough of major proportions!

      • checkmate2012

        ya’ll read: The Founders? Intent for the First Amendment
        Posted by FoundersIntent (Diary)
        Saturday, June 2nd at 7:59PM EDT

        I’s a very good post and to your comments above, the left has basterdized the 1st Amendment for their evil purpose and somehow we have to stop the misinterpretation. Bush had faith based initiatives, O has green initiatives, so vouchers should be a no brainer. If only…

      • runner12

        If the parents are choosing a religious education over a public one, then the seperation of church and state may not hold any water. After all, in all reality it is the parents’ tax money that is being used to fund the public schools. One could argue that they are simply choosing to appropriate their money elsewhere.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Or rather, Louisiana’s. http://spectator.org/archives/2012/06/04/bobby-jindals-budget-blind-spo/1

  • http://conservatisthandbook.blogspot.com cjd87

    I love what Jindal is doing in LA with this reform. But I would have to take it one step further. Remove the restrictions of which public school you are allowed to attend based on geography. Then move the funds to which ever school your child attends. Same amount of money but it follows the student to the school you as the parent decide is the best for you and your child.

    • aesthete

      at getting a good education. Wouldn’t want that…

      • acat

        and staffing, of course ….

        but yeah. It does run the risk you’ve identified.

        Mew

        • acat

          have done far more, with far fewer resources for an extremely long time .. been a perpetual thorn in the side of whichever Dem is currently running the Chicago Public Schools.

          Louisiana is on the right track with this.

          Mew

  • mikeymike143

    the more damage we can do to them, the better is is for america.

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