Umm, you know all that climate data that proves global warming, well, nobody’s had it for 20+ years


Imagine you are a climate researcher who has been assembling the data that is used to support claims of global warming. Or imagine you are Phil Jones from the Climate Research Unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia. Or imagine you are a scientific fraud. Did I write “or”? I meant “and.”

Before we get into the sleazy details let’s talk about science.

The scientific method that has produced such incredible progress over the last five hundred years depends on peer review, rigorously reproducible experiments, and transparent access to the original data as well as all operations performed on it. Factor analysis, time series analysis and other techniques lead to theories about cause and effect. Empirical data from experimental results indicates numerical relationships. Results are tested and vetted by many methods, including statistical analysis of the data for measurement bias. The result is that scientific theories are never proved. Two things can happen to them.

  • Theories can be accepted as good enough for a while; until
  • They get disproved.

In science, breakthroughs are made by disproving old theories that were good enough for a long time, and replacing them with new or refined theories. Where experiments are feasible, new experiments are performed to vet results. In order for the scientific method to work for theories in which experiments are not feasible (such as weather science), the original data must be kept. A reliable record of all mathematical transformations must also be kept. To depart from this method by inventing or manipulating data is usually enough to make a pariah of a scientist. But there are certain scientists who, because of the faddishness and political correctness of their results, get a pass when they violate every standard of scientific research.

But the fact of the matter is those so-called scientists are frauds, and so are their supporters.

Patrick J. Michaels of NRO has the story in all its deplorable, results-falsifying glory at Watts Up With That.

In the early 1980s, with funding from the U.S. Department of Energy, scientists at the United Kingdom’s University of East Anglia established the Climate Research Unit (CRU) to produce the world’s first comprehensive history of surface temperature. It’s known in the trade as the “Jones and Wigley” record for its authors, Phil Jones and Tom Wigley, and it served as the primary reference standard for the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) until 2007. It was this record that prompted the IPCC to claim a “discernible human influence on global climate.”

Putting together such a record isn’t at all easy. Weather stations weren’t really designed to monitor global climate. Long-standing ones were usually established at points of commerce, which tend to grow into cities that induce spurious warming trends in their records. Trees grow up around thermometers and lower the afternoon temperature. Further, as documented by the University of Colorado’s Roger Pielke Sr., many of the stations themselves are placed in locations, such as in parking lots or near heat vents, where artificially high temperatures are bound to be recorded.

So the weather data that go into the historical climate records that are required to verify models of global warming aren’t the original records at all. Jones and Wigley, however, weren’t specific about what was done to which station in order to produce their record, which, according to the IPCC, showed a warming of 0.6° +/– 0.2°C in the 20th century.

Guess what comes next? Every time a scientist wants to examine the data and make sure it is good, Phil Jones refuses. A few scientists who are properly deferential get bits of data. But the scientific method cannot operate without peer review from scientists who look for problems. How can the science be improved if it cannot be examined? After deflecting requests for data with all sorts of weak excuses (read the article for a number of good laughs), Jones eventually admitted that he and his partner never kept the original data. From the beginning of their work in 1979, they only kept data after they had adjusted it by unknown and inexplicable methods. They adjusted new data before including it in their existing, adjusted data. And then they threw the new original data away. Read what Jones wrote:

Since the 1980s, we have merged the data we have received into existing series or begun new ones, so it is impossible to say if all stations within a particular country or if all of an individual record should be freely available. Data storage availability in the 1980s meant that we were not able to keep the multiple sources for some sites, only the station series after adjustment for homogeneity issues. We, therefore, do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (i.e., quality controlled and homogenized) data.

In other words, they threw away the original data and falsified the data they kept.

Though the story of the falsified global warming data does not prove that human activity has changed global climate, it is clear that the IPCC’s climate data shows signs of human activity. Unfortunately for the climate change hypothesis, it shows signs of human activity in falsifying the data.

Combine this with the 2007 discovery that NASA climate activist James Hansen’s computer models that showed increasing temperatures from 1998 to 2006 suffered from a Y2K bug and were completely wrong (see the graph at the right showing a sudden leap in measurements on midnight 12/31/1999) and things don’t look too peachy for claims that human activity, let alone cow farts and backyard barbequeues, are changing the world’s climate.

Tangentially, we have the fact that Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is one of the two most critical components of the cycle of life, along with its partner atmospheric Oxygen (O2). Plants breathe in CO2 and breathe out O2. Animals breathe in O2 and breathe out CO2. Water is also part of the cycle. But the respiration of the two great kingdoms of life, the animal and vegetable kingdoms, depends on CO2. Increasing amounts of CO2 are causing the greening of the Sahara desert. Is this one of the bad effects of CO2 that we should be worried about? Increased quantities of atmospheric CO2 make plants healthier and increase their numbers. Increasing numbers of healthier plants create more O2 for animals to breathe and more animal fodder for animals to eat. If increased quantities of CO2 will strengthen the cycle of life, decreased quantities will weaken the cycle. The cycle of life goes round and round, either growing or dying away, and the greenies who advocate CO2 restrictions claim to be on the side of animals and plants. Yet green goals will reduce the numbers of plants and animals and make them less healthy.

So here we have a climate scientist who admits that he does not follow the scientific method, the world’s most important computer model of climate suffering from an undetected Y2K error, and advocates of plant and animal life whose goals are to have less of both. I do not claim to know everything that is going on, but I know enough to ask one more question.

What is the real game?

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Great work Beagle

Richard Mullins (Diary) Wednesday, September 23rd at 11:55PM EDT (link)

Using Patrick Michaels is great. Never skips a beat while getting things right.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

Thanks, that article was smart and funny

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 12:22AM EDT (link)

And it fired me up. How can anyone seriously claim that the environmental movement is based on science?

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

LJ, of course

baserunr (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:25PM EDT (link)

its based on science. Its just a particular branch of science that you probably aren’t qualified to deal in:

Pseudo.

But that’s a pedigree that is probably not worth having!

“The day you think you know it all is the day your trouble starts.”

I don't about that...

Next93 (Diary) Friday, September 25th at 11:44PM EDT (link)

It certainly seems to pay better than the fields where you’re actually expected to prove your theories.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 
 
 
 

The real goal is expanded government control of our lives

civil truth (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 12:53AM EDT (link)

Whether by taxation or regulation (or both) government wants more of our money to pay for their programs, starving the private sector and making us more dependent on government programs. Furthermore, they want to control our behavior, the products we buy, the design of manufactured items, etc.

And since there is no way to measure success, these will be eternal measures once enacted.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

That seems likely, especially with communist infiltration of environmental movement -nt-

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:33AM EDT (link)

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton
 

I think the real goal is redistribution of wealth

diakrioi (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:56PM EDT (link)

Many of the people supporting this fraud will be in control of the carbon credit exchanges and will take their cut off the top. Because they are either the architects of or are very familiar with the mechanics of the trading system, they know where and when to invest from the start. In other words, they and their cronies will be in on the carbon credit system IPO.

But there is another level of wealth redistribution in their minds. The radicals among them think that it is unfair that the West has such a large portion of the world’s wealth. They want wealth redistributed to other societies and climate treaties are a way to do it. The developing nations will be exempt from the treaties. Western nations will not be exempt – until they are no longer the wealthy nations.

Bingo- I agree it is to some extent redistribution of wealth

Scope (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:56PM EDT (link)

in the classic Obama sense. It is more of a “brand new worldwide global investment vehicle. ” There can be no other reason why so many “intelligent” people from aroung the world, and concentrated here in the US, would buy into what has proven to be a “scam.” They say, follow the money, and in this case we need to know who all in Congress, who all of the mightest investors, who all of the “green environment pushers” are invested in the new green companies. They have much to lose, less so than the American people, and, other doubters in the world do.

Don't the two go hand-in-hand?

Next93 (Diary) Friday, September 25th at 11:47PM EDT (link)

Short of armed robbery, the only way to bring about a redistribution of wealth is through expanded government control. And to be honest, govermnent control is the far more efficient way to do it.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 
 
 
 

One theory

Lammo (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 12:56AM EDT (link)

They are total whack jobs who are afraid that the plants are going to take over so we must rid the world of the evil CO2. They probably saw Little Shop of Horrors with the insatiable Venus Fly Trap (Feeeed Me!!!!!!) and thought is was a documentary. Hey, it’s based on just as much science and reason as the whole global warming/climate change scam.

:-)

Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)

If you want to sell that theory

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:35AM EDT (link)

You need to come up with 80 years of falsified data to support it and a phoney baloney computer program that simulates it into the future. Them’s the rules.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

I've got them both right here in my briefcase

Lammo (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:49AM EDT (link)

trust me, I’m a lawyer! Yeah, that’s the ticket.

;-)

Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)

 
 

Yes Lammo- They are all whack jobs, but

Scope (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 8:02PM EDT (link)

It goes further than a whack job theory. They are whacky for-real, as this administration has appointed them to very high level, policy setting, positions. It’s much more serious than

 

Yes Lammo- They are all whack jobs, but

Scope (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 8:02PM EDT (link)

It goes further than a whack job theory. They are whacky for-real, as this administration has appointed them to very high level, policy setting, positions. It’s much more serious than

 
 

Excellent diary beagle but I will note that....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:38AM EDT (link)

even with all that data it only takes common sense to see that progressives have been trying to make something out of nothing for a century. One need only read newspaper and magazine articles starting in the early 20th Century to see that we have cooled, heated, cooled, cooled, heated and cooled again. It goes without saying that each time we did either the sky is falling crowd went bonkers without any supporting data EVER. If Cap & Tax passes because of LIES all those who vote for it will be out of office in their next election cycle because when people are paying 1700 to 3000 dollars more a year for utilities they will be ANGRY and they will note their anger in the the ballot box!

I really despise that WE are being hustled by a bunch of idiots with D’s behind their name up in DC.

 

At this point, people are beginning to wake up.

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:29AM EDT (link)

It has snowed in Colorado and one other state already this year. It’s been a relatively mild summer all around compared to summers just a few years ago. The seas haven’t swamped the low lying cities as was foretold.

I’d say Global Warming is a dead issue for another generation or two until the flim-flams have a new electorate to deceive without input from people who have heard it all before. Unfortunately, the government entities are slow on the uptake considering Obama spent some portion of his speech to the U.N. yesterday talking about climate things that are happening that really aren’t.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

You must have missed the memo,

The_Gadfly (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:15PM EDT (link)

Global Warming (TM) died sometime last year, or maybe the year before. It is now Climate Change (TM) which is a much more durable beast as it applies to any temperature change induced by anthropomorphic activities.

Hence the importance of the NRO article and Miller’s post in highlighting that despite the claims of the credentialed priesthood:

It isn’t real science!

Nobel Prize for IPCC/Al Gore was the dead giveaway of that

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:19PM EDT (link)

Notice how the Nobel *Peace* Prize was given to IPCC and Al Gore for their climate change stuff. That is normally given to politicians and activists for agitating for things the global elites like.

They did not get a SCIENTIFIC Nobel Prize because what they did was not science. It was activism. And even the Nobel committee couldn’t bring itself to cover up that brutal fact.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton
 

Doesn't matter what they call it,

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:07PM EDT (link)

the meaning is the same. “a rose by any other name… or a turd by any other name… well, you get the point.

I know it’s not a real science. Up until the last couple of months not enough realized the same, hence, the people are waking up.

TheWon’s speech talked about global warming with the seas rising (even though they aren’t) and ice caps melting (even though the Artic ice is growing), and so forth and so on.

Calling it climate change doesn’t change the fact that he’s still talking Global warming. I’m simply not inclined to let them off so easily on changing names. That’s how they get away with so much crap. They simply change the names and expect us to forget what they mean.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

Correction,

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:08PM EDT (link)

not Artic ice, the Antarctic ice .

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

That was

The_Gadfly (Diary) Saturday, September 26th at 10:57AM EDT (link)

supposed to be a snark. I thought bolding the last line clarified that without me adding the ‘/end snark’ marker.

 
 
 
 
 

It's all about control.

itrytobenice (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 8:01AM EDT (link)

They said it was the coming ice age, then global warming, now climate change.

In real life, what they want is control over our lives and I’m heartily sick and tired of hearing them.

Proper grammar saves lives.

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

Now that we have climate change

UpLateAgain (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:37PM EDT (link)

instead of global warming, the latest take is that, yes, the planet has actually been cooling a little for the past nine years, and will probably continue to do so for another ten or so. But then, it is going to massively and suddenly heat up radically, killing all life on Earth. Unless, of course, we take the steps NOW to institute cap and trade and get this thing under control before the trigger point hits and we can’t stop the carnage.

No. It’s true. I actually saw a talking head say so just the other day. So we’d better get in line or we’re all going to die!

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.

Do I get to make up a fairy tale, too?

Next93 (Diary) Saturday, September 26th at 12:09AM EDT (link)

Gee, *my* analysis shows that if we DONT keep burning fossil fuels, we’ll be overrun with trolls and leprechauns that will spring up out of the unused oil wells, and will cause a worldwide shortage of linguini, which will in turn cause the COMPLETE COLLAPSE OF THE ECOSPHERE!!!!!

This analysis is every bit as rigorous and scientifically valid. Really. I’d show you the raw data, but my dog ate it.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

Linguini?

UpLateAgain (Diary) Saturday, September 26th at 12:42AM EDT (link)

Your data shows a shortage of linguini? THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP! I’m stocking up big time tomorrow!

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.

 
 
 

Oh by the way...

UpLateAgain (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:43PM EDT (link)

I seem to recall in 2000, that the Gorical was telling us the sea was going to rise twenty feet by 2010. Well….. it’s got three months to come up another 19 feet, 11 and seven-eights inches or so.

I wonder if there is a casino “climate book” somewhere that I could lay down a bet on how much the sea is going to rise over the next ten years.

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.

What we need is a futures market

revivefederalism (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 9:08PM EDT (link)

on the actual future values of sea level and temperature. instead of these nonsensical carbon markets, let liberals bet conservatives that ocean levels will rise. if Lefty buys the sea level contract for 2015 at 10 feet relative to today, then let’s say that each contract is worth $10,000/foot. if the sea level is unchanged in 2015, then the contract will expire worth -$100,000, and along the way, Mr. Right who went short the contract will have gotten to enjoy the interest accrued on the additions of their margin calls to his account! they’re wrong, we’d get to enjoy the redistribution of wealth for a change! that’s why there isn’t an active futures market on what these bozos proclaim to be the signature economic challenge of humanity. it has nothing to do with economic risk and everything to do with green being the new red!

I like it!

UpLateAgain (Diary) Saturday, September 26th at 12:49AM EDT (link)

But the lefties will never go for it. Wayyyyyyyyy to capitalistic. And knowing that they would lose money in addition to having to having to suffer the extreme disappointment of the world not actually ending would be too much for them.

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.

 
 
 

Some questions

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 1:43PM EDT (link)

I hate to break up the love fest here, but I have some pertinent questions regarding your post. I’m guessing they won’t be popular, but oh well.

Yes, Mr. Jones certainly acted in bad faith didn’t he? Although you can’t blame him – Warrick Hughes isn’t exactly now for being an honest broker in the whole climate change debate – but we digress.

This whole indecent, I think was one of the major reasons the National Academy of Sciences decided to look independently into the whole matter back in 2006. They looked at several data sets including, but not solely, the instrumental record. And what were there conlcusions? The same as Jones and others:

The report
concludes, with a high level of confidence,
that global mean surface temperature was
higher during the last few decades of the
20th century than during any comparable
period since at least A.D. 1600

And then there’s the “Y2K bug” error – it wasn’t really, but that does make a nice story, now doesn’t it. That did change some numbers a little – apparently the Detroit Lakes record significantly! (how nicely cherry picked) – what was the resulting effect on the global mean temperature record? 0.001 deg. C Wowzers! That certainly throws a wrench in the works, now doesn’t it?

And aside from proving that scientists really don’t like plants and animals, I think we should come back to your first point. Why hasn’t the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming yet been disproven? Apparently the two issues you raised weren’t enough to do it, what other information is available?

AGW has been disproved to the satisfaction of 60,000 scientists who should know better than a former VPUS

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 1:53PM EDT (link)

It happens to be politically popular for ideological reasons.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

Wow

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 1:56PM EDT (link)

60,0000, really? prove it…

NO shifty you PROVE he's wrong....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:07PM EDT (link)

YOU are new here and YOU seem to think AGW is real so the first thing you need to do is drop the drugs and then go answer your own damn questions!

No, Jaded, he's a rerun of a bad movie, just hasn't

Achance (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:18PM EDT (link)

been around for awhile. Behaves better than most of them.

In Vino Veritas

Art, did pliny give up on us? And has anyone seen flyerhawk?

janis (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:25PM EDT (link)

Although I should just be grateful that neither of them is around, I suppose. But in lieu of a competent troll (oxymoronic, I know), both of them were good for raising the collective blood pressure around here.

Dunno, AGW hasn't been the hot topic lately

Achance (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:27PM EDT (link)

and that was all pliny was into. Flyerhawk was a multipurpose irritant, but hasn’t been around really since The Messiah came in November, IIRC.

In Vino Veritas

I miss pliny too

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 2:36PM EDT (link)

and who was that other guy who actually knew a few things about science (anti-AGW) – he was fun, you guys should recruit him back.

 

he might have gotten a position in the administration.

kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:55PM EDT (link)

nt

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 
 
 
 

uhh

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 2:21PM EDT (link)

I think I just showed that Beagle’s points are somewhat valid, but mostly irrelevant.

And OK, I’ll answer my own question. The theory of AGW has yet to disproved because there isn’t any data to show that it’s fundamentally wrong. I have yet to see a diary at RedState or elsewhere that shows otherwise, but hey, keep posting.

PS I’ve been around here almost twice as long as you have Jaded, so I don’t think that counts as “new” anymore.

PPS If there are really 60,000 scientists that disagree with teh theory of AGW shouldn’t there be a list somewhere?

And now #1... The List

diakrioi (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 3:14PM EDT (link)

I don’t know where the 60K number comes from but there is a list maintained at www.petitionproject.org of 31K scientists who have signed a petition.

There are various levels of disagreement with the claims of the global warming faithful. A scientist may disagree completely, doubt that it is occurring, believe it has occurred but is no longer, believe that the data is questionable, believe that global warming is occurring but is a natural process, believe it is occurring but the cause is unknown, believe it is occurring but there will be no significant negative effects.

Very good

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 3:46PM EDT (link)

what’s funny about this petition is how it evolves with time – the original version said “declare that global warming is a lie with no scientific basis whatsoever” whereas the latest incarnation says “greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate” – kind of a big leap. Perhaps they lost signatures? I’m not even sure that AGW will cause “catastrophic heating” – they of course don’t provide a defintion fo what catastrophic is.

And the other part is how many of the signatures come from folks in the areas remotely related to AGW (I know elitist) – that brings it down to about 3,000 – then if we classify scientist as having a PhD (or someone who does research) the list again shrinks again to less than 1,000 – much less than the authors of the IPCC report – just sayin’.

Couple of points here

Next93 (Diary) Saturday, September 26th at 1:51AM EDT (link)

1. Given the professional damage that the signers of this petition are risking, it’s amazing anyone signed it.

2.I wouldn’t be so quick to start winnowing out the numbers – as I recall, there are very few Hollywood celebrities doing post-grad research in climated. I seem to recall that Al Gore doesn’t have a college degree at all – he was kicked out of one program and flunked out of another.

3. Anyone with a brushing familiarity with control system theory and/or modeling and simulation is probably a lot more qualified to have an opinion on this subject than your average news anchor and/or community activist. And for the record, my experience in both those areas leads me to beleive that what’s falling on my boot isn’t rain, if you know what I mean.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 
 
 

it is not necessary to disprove AGW

kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 3:32PM EDT (link)

Since it is the AGW proponents that are arguing for a huge change in our lifestyle and well being, the burden of proof is on you, and so far, it looks like a farce.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

Actually

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 3:50PM EDT (link)

since policy is being made right now based on the accepted theory, I believe the burden is on you – and quickly.

Besides the first point of this diary is that is how science works – although I suppose you could try to change the scientific method. I’m sure either way will equally fruitful.

The creation of policy has nothing to do with sound science.

kyoufuu (Diary) Friday, September 25th at 8:49AM EDT (link)

Al Gore could testify to congress that he made everything up, and I’m sure a significant number of people would still vote for cap and trade. In some cases, any amount of evidence will not deter righteous beliefs.

Just look at the vaccine/autism “link”, or the supposed dangers of BPA.

“There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.” — James Madison

“I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”

 
 
 
 
 

I remembered wrong. Not 60,000 but 31,478

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:27PM EDT (link)

31,478 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,029 with PhDs

Given that the numbers of scientists who believe in AGW keeps falling, and the most relevant number I’ve seen boasts of 600 true believers who are scientists, I’d say that the people who believe that the Sun (you know the great big glowing ball of nuclear fire in the middle of the solar system?) drives temperature change for all the planets including Earth have won the popularity contest against AGW true believers. Since temperatures are changing on all the planets and there are no humans on the other planets to inflict AGW on them, that is good because it passes the most basic gut check that AGW fails, btw. Unfortunately for the AGW proponents, their humanocentric religion is not scientific and very risible.

You can go back to your chanting of “Gorey Gorey Al-leluia” now.

Gorey Gorey Al-leluia
Cap N Trade will stick it to ya
Oh so sorry all you bourgeois
Climate fraud is marching on!

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

Inlcuding less

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 4:53PM EDT (link)

than 1000 PhDs that actually know anything about AGW (see my post above). Not that numbers really matter, but apparently you think so. So you should know the IPCC author list has over 2500 names (or in your language “true believers”) – that’s just authors and doesn’t include the names of folks who accept the theory – the last AGU meeting had over 20,000 attendees – that might be a better metric.

A shrinking number eh? Once again prove it. Here’s an idea, why not provide the name of one scientist who at first accepted the theory, but now thinks it’s false. I’ll play as well with the vice versa – Patrick Michaels – ok, your turn…

Ah yes the sun – of course it drives temperatures on all planets. So explain to me this – why is Mercury cooling when it should be most impacted by changes in solar activity? All planets should be warming at an equal rate if the sun is truly the dominant cause. Why has solar irradiance gone up and down the past 30 years while Earth’s temperature has gone steadily up? Wouldn’t they go up and down if the sun is dominant?

Nice song!

Christopher Landsea resigned from IPCC

diakrioi (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 8:30PM EDT (link)

In January 2005 Christopher Landsea resigned from the IPCC. He said that he viewed the process “as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound”.

 

Proof of anthropomorphic global warming... on Mars!

diakrioi (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 9:04PM EDT (link)

It appears that Mars is exiting an ice age and entering a global warming period. Must be all of the CO2 that our exploration vehicles dumped there.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html

 

Here's your scientists that accepted global warming but then rejected it

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 10:39PM EDT (link)

One: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24036736-7583,00.html

Thirteen more: http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=c5e16731-3c64-481c-9a36-d702baea2a42

Another: http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm

That’s fifteen.

PETA and the ASPCA are pure evil. See here and here.

 

You Mean They Are Less Qualified Than The Head of the IPCC?

rcov092 (Diary) Friday, September 25th at 12:09AM EDT (link)

who learned everything he knows about the MASSIVE FRAUD OF MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING OR CLIMATE CHANGE OR AGW or WAG OR WHATEVER YOU WILL MORPH IT INTO NEXT WEEK

While studying to become a Mechanical Engineer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajendra_K._Pachauri

“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”

 

Your 2500 "Names" are useless.

UpLateAgain (Diary) Saturday, September 26th at 1:12AM EDT (link)

I’ve read several different discourses by folks trying to actually identify these 2500 “scientists” . Usually, they can never come up with more that 2 or 3 names that are actually associated with climatology or even meteorology. A typical discussion of who these guys actually are can be found here:

http://www.brutallyhonest.org/brutally_honest/2007/06/who_are_the_ipc.html

Many accounts say the names forwarded by the various IPCC panel members claim they have never even read the research, though their governments feel free to use their names…. and the vast majority are in fields (like researching materials for crash helmets that REALLY have nothing even remotely to do with climatology)

Christopher Horner, Denis T Avery, Roy Spencer, and Lawrence Solomon have written books where they discusses the IPCC extensively…… and they (The IPCC) are a singularly unimpressive bunch.

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.

 
 
 
 
 

Whoa. Stop right there, pjshifty. (Read this.)

Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:17PM EDT (link)

There is no legitimate scientific excuse for not making data available. You will now apologize to the group for belittling their entirely appropriate reaction to Jones’ doing so.

And that had better not be a “Sorry if you were offended,” either.

Correct

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 2:29PM EDT (link)

there is no legitimate scientific excuse for withholding data, full stop. Yes, I can see why everyone would be offended – I am also offended at this behavior.

I can also see human reaction Jones had to Mr. Hughes request, even though it was a mistake – I think all scientists would agree.

Much obliged, pjshifty.

Moe Lane (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 2:42PM EDT (link)

You may go back to this eternal knife fight in an alley now. :)

 
 
 

Simple

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:19PM EDT (link)

The reason why AGW hasn’t been disproved is because it was built upon an irrefutable hypothesis. Since you’re so smart, I’m sure you know what that is.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

I guess

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 4:32PM EDT (link)

I’m not that smart. How is the theory that gasses emitted by human activity are causing the Earth to warm, irrefutable? All you have to do is find and prove an alternative explanation for the observed warming trend – got any ideas?

Then look it up.

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:38PM EDT (link)

According to AGW, if it snows it’s warming. If there’s a hurricane, it’s warming, if it floods, it’s warming, if it’s hot it’s warming, if it’s cold it’s warming.

Get the point? No matter what is going on in with the climate it’s all due to warming which makes it an irrefutable hypothesis.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

Except

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 5:05PM EDT (link)

that’s not the accepted theory, so you’re arguing a strawman. The theory is that human are causing the planet to warm and that will change the climate. How that exactly that plays out on a smaller than regional level is still open for debate, although most folks agree that the poles will get warmer faster than the tropics and sea levels will rise (both already observed).

The argument for action is that the world’s infrastructure is wholly tied to the climate and any changes will be expensive (e.g. pine beetles in Colorado), more expensive than stopping the problem. Really it’s fiscal responsibility – a conservative hallmark.

The only people who "accept" it are

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:58PM EDT (link)

politicians and the people whose salaries they pay via direct employment or grants.

I notice you didn’t follow the link I left, either. I’m not using a strawman. You are. The blind leading the gullible… what a combination.

So… explain to me why the antarctic ice is growing and it’s been a very mild summer and last year was relatively mild and so on.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

yes

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 7:11PM EDT (link)

conspiracy, right – how about an example with real names?

The link was also filled with strawmen – e.g. there’s no accepted theory on negative feedback causing colder winters.

Again the theory is human emitted gasses are causing the planet to warm – that is all – it is refutable. Here’s how you refute it you prove something else is warming the planet.

Yes in the northern hemisphere and much of the globe was cooler this year than last, just as it was in the early 90′s and early 80′s, but that didn’t stop AGW. The theory is that this is due to natural variation with solar activity at its 11 year low and La Nina in the Pacific. As those natural cycles again change back to warmer variations, we will again see further warming amplified by AGW. Indecently, this year was the warmest on record for the world’s oceans.

 
 
 
 

Given that you admitted you're not that smart...

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:47PM EDT (link)

http://biocab.org/Irrefutable_Hypothesis.html

The reading level doesn’t seem to be too high.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

 

Check here....

UpLateAgain (Diary) Wednesday, September 30th at 8:48PM EDT (link)

http://www.akdart.com/warming15.html

Just a FEW alternatives.

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.

 
 
 
 

The real game is simple

kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 3:06PM EDT (link)

I have become convinced that it was all a scare hoax from the very beginning, designed for the ultimate goal of creating an exchange for carbon which the conspirators could manipulate.

This was just the same thing on a smaller scale that happened in the early 1990′s with a sulphur exchange being set up for the non-existent threat of acid rain.

They pulled the same crap in the 1980′s with the so called Ozone hole and the reformulation of refrigerants (timed conveniently with the expiration of patents on the old refrigerants). And no real change in the ozone layer ever took place (you see it worked!).

It is a colossal swindle from the word go.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

This is funny

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 3:40PM EDT (link)

non-existent acid rain – have you been to China lately? It’s alive and well, my friend.

Once again we see a major tenet of denialism – the conspiracy. There’s nothing scientists like better than stop disagreeing and plot world domination.

acid rain was a non-problem in the USA

kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 3:47PM EDT (link)

which had already move away from coal. I admit that coal burning in unscrubbed plants causes acid rain, but THERE WAS NO PROBLEM WITH THAT IN THE USA IN THE 1990′s!

As for conspiracy, well yes I have come to the inescapable conclusion that that is what is going on. It doesn’t have to be many, only a few placed in governments that can pull it off. After all, they can manufacture a nonexistent consensus as well.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

Interesting point

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 4:29PM EDT (link)

as the Acid Rain Program created in 1990 that led acid rain not being an issue in the 90′s is now being used as a model for cap-n-trade policies of today. Indecently, that program has come in at a quarter of the original projected cost. Horay for government regulation!

Dude, maybe you could whisper to me the names of those few well placed people in government (and science too of course). I’m just curious who’s really pulling the strings – are they Masons? maybe Tom Hanks?

Lenin took down the Kerensky government with a cell of 17.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:33PM EDT (link)

It doesn’t take many even in a large government. I don’t even know the players in AGW, don’t believe in it and don’t care, but I do know government. Put me in the WH and give me ten loyal, dedicated, and competent people, and I’ll make the government do whatever I want it to do.

In Vino Veritas

Lenin's dead

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 5:11PM EDT (link)

I want names, real names!

My real question is how did they convince the majority of the world’s scientists…brain implants? Put it this way, if a scientist could prove that the theory of AGW is false, he or she would go down in history as one of the greats. It’s a scientific wet dream! What are these people waiting for? The problem: the more data gathered, the more the original theory is supported.

One word: money.

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 5:36PM EDT (link)

There’s lots of money out there for those wanting to ‘prove’ global warming, most of it from the government. Not so much for the skeptics.

Here’s where I call bull$#!+ on you: you just now claimed that a majority of the world’s scientists believe in AGW. Where’s your evidence for that? Got a list of all the scientists in the world and a checklist of whether they believe in AGW or not? If not, then your statement is so much tripe.

PETA and the ASPCA are pure evil. See here and here.

What of the lots

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 5:49PM EDT (link)

of money to disprove global warming? What were the conclusions from that research – did they just happen to pick the bad scientists? Who in the government is funding science with an expected outcome. Where’s your proof?

Here’s mine. Start counting author names in the reference list at the end of each chapter as well as the core author lists in the appendix – should be about 2500. Or how about the recent AGU poll (3000 responses) – 97% of climatologists that actively publish in climatology support the accepted theory – other active groups closer to 90% – still pretty good. Convinced?

Big deal, 97 percent of an echo chamber

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 10:24PM EDT (link)

Besides, you said the majority of the world’s scientists, not some vast percentage of a self-selected community that reinforces each other’s biases. There are 6.5 billion people in the world, even if only 1 percent of them are scientists, that’s 65 million scientists of whom you claim a majority support global warming. 2500 + 97% of 3000 is 5410, far short of the 30+ million you claimed. Where’s the rest? Back up your words or eat them.

Lots of money to disprove global warming? Where? Your imagination? Pretty much every scientific analysis debunking global warming was done by scientists in their spare time, because there sure wasn’t any government research money for that. Your “lots of money to disprove global warming” doesn’t even pass the giggle test, it’s that absurd.

Here’s one for you. Everyone that’s claiming that it’s the warmest it’s ever been and it’s only getting worse denies the existence of the Medieval Warm Period 700-900 years ago, or conveniently chooses a data origin so that they don’t have to worry about accounting for it. But more than a dozen independent studies show the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age– which the IPCC itself didn’t dispute as recently ago as 1990. The existence of the Medieval Warm Period puts the lie to everything the warmists claim. If it was warmer in the 1300s than it is now, the idea that mankind has warmed the globe takes a serious body blow.

PETA and the ASPCA are pure evil. See here and here.

 
 
 

The data has been scrubbed and squirrelled away

Xasteius (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 5:44PM EDT (link)

where no one can find it to test it (read the diary?). Now when I was in grade school, they taught us this little thing called the scientific method. When I entered the science fair, I had to clearly show how the experiment was performed, and the data I acquired. I am currently writing my thesis and I am doing pretty much the same thing, abet on a bigger scale. If anyone wanted to repeat my experiment and compare their results, my methods and data are there for all to see.

If I were to use the unrepeatable methodology used by these some-called ‘experts’, I’d be laughed out of the oral exam room at the least. I’ve actually seen a professor giving a presentation at a national conference eaten alive by industrial experts; it wasn’t pretty.

Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!

The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.

I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.

Uhuh

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 5:55PM EDT (link)

here’s the data – and detail on how it was gathered. Test away…although you should probably finish your thesis first.

Raw data (tables, numbers, etc.), not pretty pictures. nt

Xasteius (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:00PM EDT (link)

Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!

The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.

I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.

If you weren't

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:06PM EDT (link)

distracted by a thesis deadline, you probably would have followed the links on earliest publication (Mann ’98) – it’s all there…

 
 
 
 

The scientist who proved AGW false would starve

Achance (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 5:46PM EDT (link)

to death, never be published, never get another grant, lose his position at the university or laboratory, and his research would go to the same place that the media has tried to send the 9/12 rallies and the ACORN videos.

In Vino Veritas

Yes

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 5:52PM EDT (link)

the conspiracy knows no bounds – but data speaks for itself – where’s the data to disprove the theory? The scientist who publishes it will be one of the greats, if it turns out to be true – that’s a greater motivator to most scientists as evidenced by the cars we drive and our wardrobes.

Yes the conspiracy does abound

Leopard1996 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:04PM EDT (link)

Just like Achance said you scumbag. If a scientist tried to get published through any of the scientific community, it would kill the gravy train for all of those who needed AGW to be true to make their nut. Since now that majority is the majority of the scientific community, thanks to how govt grants are given, that is why he would get sqeulched.

Also as far as private firms funding scientists, as soon as that scientist did accurately disprove AGW, all other folks would do is run to the media and say look who funded this guy, and then his research is dead in the court of public opinion.

So this may get me banned, but GO SCREW,

“The accumluated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen

temper temper

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:09PM EDT (link)

let’s not get ourselves into any trouble around here. Again where’s your proof – that the problem with conspiracy theories, they’re just that…

pjshifty, others have been reading the treads here today.

penguin2 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:30PM EDT (link)

I’m trying to figure out what your point is, what your purpose is. Any number of people have refuted quite reasonably the AGW. It is also well known the connection of AGW for global control of people’s lives. It is the new Communism.

From I can tell, your beliefs and arguments are based on who you read and want to read. You obviously have an agenda in that. Or maybe you just like to argue. The rest of us have read and follow other scientific data and can draw commonsense conclusions. I think people on these threads have indicated that. Personally, if you want to be a follower of Prince Charles, who I consider has gone off the rails with the AGW mantra, well go right ahead.

You see, those of us who use commonsense, and have reasonable lifestyles, don’t have to swallow this nonsense. And you really ought to get in touch with your heroes of the global warming meme, they don’t quite practice what they preach. I’m sure the money they have made from this pathetic hoax will keep them from a long time to come.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

I can't quite

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:39PM EDT (link)

tell if you’re being sarcastic or not here, are you? Yes, the new communism of course…it all makes sense now. With arguments like that, you’re right there’s no point in making a case. But I think there are slightly more reasonable people around here than that – perhaps they’ve left.

I’m glad to hear that you’re follow some scientific data – how about showing it to me? What’s the big secret?

The point is AGW has not been disproven (unless of course you show me your secret data – pretty please and and the list of names of people who have refuted it!) and it will have costs, mitigation will also cost something but less than doing nothing. I’m for saving money, who’s with me?!

The point is, it hasn't been proven either.

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:11PM EDT (link)

A consensus is not proof. There used to be a consensus in scientific circles the earth was the center of the universe and it was also flat.

Galileo was convicted as a heretic for proffering a different view with the sun as the center.

I suppose we could start calling you a flat-earther now, considering you’d rather believe an irrefutable hypothesis put forward by somebody who won an Oscar for putting on film with special effects to grab the viewers and has made millions selling his “solutions” while employing none of those solutions himself. If the main crusader for AGW doesn’t do as he ought, don’t you think that’s pretty telling that the whole thing is one big scam?

But then, you did say you’re not very smart.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

I told

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 7:21PM EDT (link)

myself I wasn’t going to stop until someone pulled the Galileo Gambit! Awesome! Thank you sir and good night!

So you admit you were trolling pjshifty...good for you...the first step is admitting you have a problem...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:25PM EDT (link)

oh and wikipedia…really….is that where all the scientists are going for there references these days.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Of course that's where they go, Aaron.

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:28PM EDT (link)

He did prove something though: that he’s stupid.

He called me a dude.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

 
 

Gee, if I had known that's all it would take, I

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:41PM EDT (link)

would have mentioned him in the first post.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

 

Moderators: he admitted he was trolling. (n/t)

Finrod (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 10:43PM EDT (link)

.

PETA and the ASPCA are pure evil. See here and here.

 
 
 

Well shifty, I don't need to. my points were focusing

penguin2 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 8:02PM EDT (link)

on a different aspect of your global warming issue. And I don’t care to spend any time and effort to argue with you. Since you seem to think you are such a scientist; social scientific issues would really be problematic to you. If you’re interested do the research. No, I guess you won’t. Because you won’t read anything that talks about how countries have been held hostage by the AGW terriorists. Economies like England, Spain have been victimized by this mantra.

I notice you didn’t mention the money that has enriched the failed former v.p. Gore and others. Nor their carbon footprint lifestyle.

Neil Stevens, a moderator here, says don’t feed the trolls. So if we ignore you, maybe you’ll just get tired of acting like a jerk and go away.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 
 
 
 

Are you really this stupid? I used to just avoid AGW cultist

Achance (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:39PM EDT (link)

because arguing with them is like trying to convince a 10th Century Catholic peasant that it really is just wine and a cracker. Scientists either work for industry where their work is usually proprietary or they work for universities. Anything put out by scientists working in industry will simply be excoriated because it comes from industry if it doesn’t fit the lockstep university dogma.
Universities both here and in England and Western Europe are bastions of progressive, as Marx and Lenin would have used that word, orthodoxy. They simply WILL NOT countenance even the slightest dissent from the progressive line. When they ran out of draft protesting in the ’70s the people who had been carrying Mao’s Little Red Book around picked up a Whole Earth Catalog and encamped in the environmental movement. The leaders are watermelons, green on the outside, red on the inside, the rest are either fellow travellers or, mostly, useful idiots.

Other than the damage that the progressives have done to our educational system now giving us a majority that functions at a medieval level of ignorance and superstion, the next most damaging thing to American interests are our so-called environmental laws. When ESA and CWA suits weren’t doing enough to completely stymie the American economy, AGW has been cooked up on the heels of the coming ice age that didn’t come, the ozone hole that wasn’t, the death of all the trees from acid rain confounded by the fact that there are more trees in America than ever before. Like almost all the rest of the learning at progressive controlled universities, AGW is simply a lie perpetrated on a scientifically illiterate public. Now, I wonder why they stopped teaching any meaningful science in K-12 in about the ’70 except to college preparatory and AP students who were sure to fall straight into the hands of the universities.

And in case you don’t know, the progress that is the root of progressivism is the progress towards the elimination of the bourgeosie on the way to that paradise of workers and peasants. Unfortunately, few even of those now styling themselves progressives to escape the dread liberal lable even have a clue about the origins.

In Vino Veritas

Wow

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:52PM EDT (link)

it’s getting pretty deep now, isn’t it. So, here’s the deal – how about providing one study with actual data – and we won’t judge where it comes from (even if it’s covered in oil and coal) – that disproves AGW?

If you can’t, aren’t you just basing your anti-AGW position on faith? Seriously, I don’t get it.

How about you providing something?

Steph C (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:01PM EDT (link)

All you’ve done so far is dump on everybody else even when they provide data. Obviously, unless it’s something from one of the people you worship, it’s not going to be good enough.

Yes, Art. He is that stupid… or lazy. Or both. I haven’t made up my mind, yet.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

Dude

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 7:13PM EDT (link)
 

PS

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 7:14PM EDT (link)

what data, show me?

What I find funny is that you are a single issue troll who only pops up to preach the antigospel of AGW.

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:20PM EDT (link)

That and the fact that you continue to use the same “data” that has been scrubbed of all original data and still think it is unassailable.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


OK

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 7:22PM EDT (link)

what’s wrong with my data, if you show me what’s wrong with it I won’t think it unassailable.

Reading comprehension is your friend...troll...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:26PM EDT (link)

You did read the article correct?

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 
 
 
 
 

You don't get it, pjshifty, there is NO reliable data.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:08PM EDT (link)

Nothing coming from the environmental community or the universities or the research establishment living on public or non-profit funding is reliable. I’ve lived my adult life in a natural resource state afflicted by communists in the guise of environmentalists doing everything they can to return man to the caves or in some cases to simply eliminate man from the planet because they really do believe that we’re some alien, evil virus afflicting Gaia.

I don’t believe anything they say. I don’t believe anything any so-called scientist associated with the environmentalists or a university says. I’ve hire enough Ph.Ds as expert witnesses and had enough on the other side of the table to know that I can buy a Ph.D to say ANYTHING. If we ever do defeat progressivism and drive them from our institutions, maybe in a generation or two, so-called science can rehabilitate itself so that it can be trusted.

In Vino Veritas

perhaps

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 7:19PM EDT (link)

you can buy a PhD to say anything, but to be reliable he/she has to have data. Where’s yours?

Yes, universities are evil (hint: I’m at one right now) – oh, but what about cancer research – there they’ve done some good haven’t they? Much of it publicly funded.

No comparison at all, pj. Cancer is a quantifiable

janis (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 8:19PM EDT (link)

thing that you can see on medical tests. It either grows or it goes away. AGW is a fairy tale involving unproven theories, claiming effects that haven’t come true, and blaming humans for weather effects that were much more extreme in other time periods when mankind either didn’t exist yet or may have existed but certainly didn’t have any technology that emitted CO2.

By the way, cancer is generally not something that is politicized like AGW. That’s the other difference.

 
 
 

bah

kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:17PM EDT (link)

go stick your head in the sand and be scared of your boogie man if you want to.

In my lifetime I have been warned that the world would end about a dozen times. and all of those dire predictions were clothed in science.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 
 
 
 
 

The more data is gathered, the more... oops!

diakrioi (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 9:21PM EDT (link)

Researchers at Duke University have discovered that previous global warming research glossed over a gap in their data and discounted the effects of the sun in recent decades.

“Sun’s direct role in global warming may be underestimated” link: http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2005/09/sunwarm.html

The lead researcher said, “”It is probably too much to claim that any one source is the principal driver of the warming trend on Earth. The number of significant temperature forcings on the climate system grows yearly as we get to know more and more about it, but we really are at a very early stage of our exploration of this very complex system. If all the estimates are true about the relative effects of forcings like the sun, black carbon, and greenhouse gases, then it is quite possible that we would have been in a sharply cooling phase over recent years were it not for these forcings. In which case, one might say, thank goodness for global warming!”

 
 
 
 
 

let me paraphrase....

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:29PM EDT (link)

There’s nothing academia-bound scientists like better than grants by the federal government and other leftist foundations.

And hi there PJ. Long time, no talk to.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

Hey EPU, sup?

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 5:19PM EDT (link)

How come businesses that are going to be impacted by new climate rules are not paying scientists to prove otherwise – the beauty of the free market? Oh wait they have – what have they been figuring out?

Come now - Exxon Mobil?

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 5:44PM EDT (link)

The Democrats have had them looking down the barrel of a gun for years now. They simply cannot afford to go on a crusade against the federal government. Their behavior is the same as all the finance/banking institutions that went along with the Obamanization of that whole industry – they were promised that if they bucked, the Dems would use the power of the press to make them Public Enemy #1.

Other folks are doing the job admirably on behalf of Exxon-Mobil.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

Again conspiracy

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:04PM EDT (link)

they have and continue to fund scientists with hopes of disproving the theory of AGW – how is that turning out?

Hey pj, a question

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:37PM EDT (link)

I am playing golf two weeks from tomorrow with a client. Can you give me an idea of what the weather will be like? You know, with your cool models and all?

Thanks in advance,
Jack

I'll tell you what pj, since you don't have time to answer me

Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 9:15PM EDT (link)

In keeping with the theme of the diary, the substance of which you are still ignoring, let’s just mark two weeks from tomorrow down as an “adjusted” one hundred and four degress in Virginia, then dispose of the real data that is collected.

Deal?

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Enron

Beaglescout (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 4:33PM EDT (link)

I had read that Enron was very much involved in subsidizing climate research that would allow them to make money with a CO2 exchange. Enron knew then what Goldman Sachs knows now, that a CO2 exchange would suck about $1,800 per year per American family out of the economy to go into the hands of those who have gotten in on the ground floor of the market.

That’s a lot of cheese for those rats.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

The business

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 5:28PM EDT (link)

of business is business – that doesn’t ultimately change the scientific data.

The non-partisan CBO predicts the current climate bill cost at $175 per family per year. Doing nothing cost – $1250 per family per year. Really it’s simple economics – most people around here tend to forget the cost of doing nothing is not nothing.

Apples and basketballs

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 5:46PM EDT (link)

The CBO scores how they score. The people from that link score how they score. If you want to make that point, have CBO score both with and without.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

So

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:28PM EDT (link)

who should we believe?

 
 

the problem is you have no scientific data

kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 5:51PM EDT (link)

you only have old data, questionable data, scrubbed data, worthless computer models, and a false consensus.

But somehow we are the ones who are anti-science.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

Without

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:02PM EDT (link)

any data – seriously am I the only providing links to actual data here? What is your quibble with the data I’ve provided specifically, other than meaningless adjectives?

 
 

Now there's a unbiased source...NOT!

Xasteius (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:04PM EDT (link)

The University of Oregon’s Climate Leadership Initiative was started with seed money by the Carolyn Foundation, which has given money to such radical organizations as ACORN, Friends of the Earth, and the Tides Foundation.

Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!

The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.

I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.

Hey nice jujistu

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:24PM EDT (link)

an ACORN tie-in! Sweet! I buy gas at Exxon Mobil often – I must be biased.

Anyway this is close to IPCC estimates 0.12 annual global slowdown in GDP for mitigation. 1-3% for not doing anything (Chapters 4 and 5). I liked the Oregon estimates as they put in price per US household. Do you have some more reliable and less biased estimates? Perhaps from the Heritage Institute or CEI?

How about "Turbo Tax" Timmy?

Xasteius (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 6:34PM EDT (link)

But he doesn’t give out his numbers….

Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!

The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.

I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.

Right

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 6:41PM EDT (link)

I’ll send him and email…

 
 
 

Went to

redpens (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:29PM EDT (link)

that Carolyn Foundation and saw the list of celebrities who’ve donated. It’s a who’s who of far-left nutcases whose movies i’ll never see again.

 
 

Economics is not so simple

diakrioi (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 8:57PM EDT (link)

Assuming that global warming is occurring. Even if we fully implemented the draconian measures of the Kyoto treaty we would not stop global warming. It would only put a dent in it of 0.2 degrees in 100 years. The symbolism of the effort would accomplish nothing.

 
 
 

Hank Paulson, The Father of TARP Is a partner in the CCE exchange

rcov092 (Diary) Friday, September 25th at 12:18AM EDT (link)

and spent his time lobbying Bush to move over to the dark side. Enough said when you add in:

Al Gore
David Blood (also Goldman Sachs)
Maurice Strong http://www.afn.org/~govern/strong.html
Peter Knight

all of whom have been milking this fraud for a long time:

http://romanticpoet.wordpress.com/2009/05/09/al-gore-on-hotseat-in-congress-being-questioned-about-global-warming-hoax-or-profit-mongering/

“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”

 

555555

UpLateAgain (Diary) Wednesday, September 30th at 8:56PM EDT (link)

Of course, the Earth has been cooling since ’98-’99, and some Russian climatologists are predicting that we are about to enter a mini ice age.

It was a scam when we were entering the ice age 25 years ago, and has been a scam when we had to stop AGW for the last 25 years.

And it’s a scam that we may have to contribute billions to cap and trade.

I am really, really, really tired of these clowns trying to rip us off!

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.

 
 

Hey, shifty, waaaassssuuupppp?

Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:11PM EDT (link)

For your reading enjoyment: http://bit.ly/137wzL

We sure have missed you around these parts.

The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.

P.S. The sig line is for you. nt

Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:12PM EDT (link)

The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.

 

Hey Vlad

pjshifty Thursday, September 24th at 7:24PM EDT (link)

how’s it going….I’ve been reading your diaries lately and always find them pretty interesting. How’s the extraction business?

It was more fun when oil was $140 & gas was $14.

Steve Maley (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:33PM EDT (link)

That was before Hurricane Ike.

Ike caused plenty of damage to our stuff & knocked down 1 platform we owned a piece of. Then we had to pay for repairs with $40 oil & $4 gas, after several months of zero production.

Fortunately, we survived. Lots of less cautious folks are in various stages of bankruptcy or other levels of financial distress.

The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.

Lot's of things were more fun with oil at $140!

Achance (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 7:59PM EDT (link)

Alaska announced the Permanent Fund Dividend yesterday: $1305.00. Last year it was $2069 plus the $1000 Palin Pander Payment, er, resource rebate. ‘Course last year I only put 67 hours on my boat’s engines since fuel was $4.60/gal. at the marina; at 1.5-2.0 mpg, that’s some expensive fun.

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 
 

Define the data set for which you reject AGW

revivefederalism (Diary) Thursday, September 24th at 9:48PM EDT (link)

A very basic aspect of any physics experiment is that there are effects that you measure along with proposed explanatory variables. If AGW is really a scientific hypothesis and not a religiously adhered to political movement, then there will be possible temperature outcomes for which you will have to reject your hypothesis.What are they? A surface temperature of 3 Kelvin is obviously not an acceptable answer. If average surface temperatures remain unchanged for ten years do you have to reject the hypothesis that the world is warming, without regard to the possible causes, or do you need to have 100 years of data? Would the temperature being 0.5 Kelvin lower in any one year be good enough? 2 Kelvin lower?

 

The Only Valid Hypothesis About AGW or WAG or Whatever is

rcov092 (Diary) Friday, September 25th at 12:21AM EDT (link)

the bigger the honey pot, the faster the crowd of criminals will swarm to it.

“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”

5555555 - nt

UpLateAgain (Diary) Wednesday, September 30th at 8:58PM EDT (link)

You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.