A mask . . . a veneer . . . a veil; all thinly hide something just beneath.
A comfort . . . a refuge . . . a sanctuary; all imply a safe and hospitable place.
Sometimes a mask and a sanctuary, or a veneer and a comfort, or a veil and a refuge describe exactly the same thing. This is the impression I got when I read a letter posted on John Hawkin’s indispensable conservativegrapevine.com. The letter was actually posted on Alternet.org. Conservativegrapevine.com only linked to it. The post was written by Byard Duncan and titled, “My First Abortion Party.” Again, after reading it, I got the impression of a mindset that was both a refuge and a veneer.
Mr. Duncan’s post described his and his girlfriend’s attendance at an abortion party. At this sort of event, whoever is throwing the party is attempting to raise enough funds to procure an abortion. In this case, it was a gal named Maggie, a 22 year old college senior who just learned she was “preggers” (as she herself put it).
Mr. Duncan, as far as I can tell, is a liberal. He is pro-abortion (or “pro-choice” as I’m fairly confident he would rather put it). Mr. Duncan is also a feminist. And in his post and to his credit, he described the party accurately, honestly, and poignantly. In the end, he didn’t condemn it. Rather, he rationalized it from his liberal perspective . . . and this is what I am referring to when I invoke terms like a veneer and a refuge. Simply put, Mr. Duncan’s spin on his evening out is the equivalent of sugarcoating a big, black lump of toxic death with a delicious, comforting, but dangerously thin candy coating. Mr. Duncan’s rationalization must allow him to look at himself each day in the mirror and see a caring human being instead of a man who is an accomplice to murder, an accomplice to an evil distilled so pure that it is perhaps one of the greatest man-made tragedies in history. In short, Mr. Duncan holds fast to a veneer of humanity that he has worked tirelessly to make into a sanctuary protecting him from, of all things, the truth. How sad.
Mr. Duncan described some pretty heinous goings on during the abortion party. It was pretty much a wild dance party. A red sheet was hung near the dance area and a light was shown behind it. This allowed revelers to slip behind the sheet and shadow dance or press into the sheet, giving the impression of a baby in the womb (according to Mr. Duncan’s interpretation of the meaning of the red sheet). So, we have the equivalent of a bacchanalia complete with an outright mockery of pregnancy, which ironically recognizes the humanity of the baby . . . the same baby about whom people are raising the funds to kill. If this doesn’t describe the banality of evil, then I don’t know what does.
But, to make matters worse, there was a three year old child at the party. Mr. Duncan seemed to recognize the contradiction and commented that the lad received a lot of high fives from the revelers. There together at the same party was a 3 year old in pajamas and a preborn child slated for death. The young child was described by Mr. Duncan as “precocious” and “always spouting little nuggets of useful knowledge.” Mr. Duncan, however, will not get to meet the preborn child. In fact, Mr. Duncan chipped in some cash for the preborn child’s execution. As for introductions, Mr. Duncan will have to settle for the effigy of the preborn dancing behind a red sheet hanging from the ceiling. Unrecognized by Mr. Duncan himself, he is a living, breathing contradiction.
In his post, Mr. Duncan was at first disturbed by the treatment of Maggie’s boyfriend, but eventually rationalized that too in his La-La land refuge of liberal veneer. Apparently, the boyfriend was all but ostracized by the female friends of Maggie who felt the boyfriend shouldn’t have had anything to do with the decision to kill the preborn child. At first this bothered Mr. Duncan until he rationalized it away by telling himself that women had suffered the “most hurtful forms of structural sexism.” Mr. Duncan concluded that that the angry ladies, with their full ownership of abortion, had a right to their vitriol . . . to not recognize such would mean being a lousy feminist. And, Mr. Duncan is a very good feminist indeed.
All in all, Mr. Duncan and his liberal, pro-abortion, feminist ilk are jauntily skating upon a veneer of very thin ice. Just below that thin ice lays a murky abyss of death . . . the fruits of the culture of death. And where is truth? That’s the light of day provided by a radiant sun. It warms the ice with reason, logic, faith, and divine revelation. The La-La land provided by the veneer of ice cannot hope to last against such an omnipotent opponent. The final question, though, is whether or not Mr. Duncan will still be skating the thin ice when it finally gives way. I pray not.
And, finally, a prayer of eternal peace and rest for the soon to be, if not already, dead preborn child of Maggie . . . this very much wanted child may not have been valued by Maggie, the revelers, and Mr. Duncan, but he is cherished by God his maker and millions upon millions of life-loving fellow human beings, among which are scores of adoptive parents who would have given this child what he deserved . . . love.
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
I shouldn't have read this on a full stomach
civil truth (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 3:11PM EST (link)My stomach is churning.
This party reminds me of what I’ve read of behavior during the Black Death, this utter emotional detachment from reality. Behind all this facade is fear – fear of the future, fear of the universe, fear at the evil they sense is approaching and yet can only sense because their eyes have been blinded.
In the end, we actually dealing with vanity – the lightness, the unrootedness, that will be swept so easily before the tsuanami rushing towards our shore – and they will never know what hit them.
All we can do is chronicle and warn and pray that the Lord may turn from his jdugment against a generation, whose eyes he has blinded and whose ears he has stopped up.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
This makes feeding Christians to lions in the Colisseum look like a rousing bit of sport combat.
EvanWeeks (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 3:27PM EST (link)The horror and inhumanity of such behavior is nearly beyond my ability to put it to words. I cannot, nor do I care to, comprehend the mindset that would be capable of rationalizing such things.
Murder. As you noted, they blatantly recognized and affirmed the humanity of the unborn child. It was a celebration of premeditated, brutal, gruesome murder.
Again, as I’ve said before on this site, this topic makes me more than a little crazy. I tend towards a brutal eye-for-eye dim view of the whole idea, and that wrath bothers me, as it is not mine to feel. Suffice to say that I think the very idea of abortion to be vile blasphemy, but to celebrate it…
I’m out of words.
EvanWeeks – Dad. Conservative. Patriot.
EvanWeeks, there is . . .
mailloux (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 12:53PM EST (link)such a thing as righteous anger and I believe it applies here. We can pray for the salvation of the sinner and, at the same time, detest the sin, both intellectually and viscerally. Sin is an ugly thing and abortion is about as ugly a sin as you can get. Getting riled up about it is a just and human thing to do.
Thanks for commenting!
Take Care, mailloux
Not sure what Mr. Duncan's religious views are
TNJim (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 4:14PM EST (link)but after reading the original it almost sounds to me like he was under conviction. I think his conscience was bothering him. He has to make excuses for his underlying discomfort.
But the party atmosphere is disturbing. Surely the symbolism of the red sheet is the most disturbing of all. It may as well have been a party for a condemned criminal with sparklers representing the electric chair.
Was having a party supposed to make Maggie feel better about her decision to kill her unborn child, fundraising notwithstanding? The more I learn about the abortion culture the more disturbing I find it. It just proves my view that it’s seen as just another form of birth control by the pro-
abortionistschoicers.I wish Maggie could have heard her baby’s heartbeat, which can begin 22 days after conception or 5 weeks after the last menstrual cycle, as the article notes. Then maybe she would realize it isn’t a “tumor”. I’m not letting the boyfriend off the hook, either. Personal responsibility cuts both ways. Abstinence works every time it’s tried. Then maybe he wouldn’t have had to feel so ostracized because no “abortion party” would have taken place and he wouldn’t be an accessory to murder.
Abortion parties. Just when I think I’ve heard it all…
TNJim, I too think Mr. Duncan was conflicted . . .
mailloux (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 12:58PM EST (link)There is hope for all of us in this world and perhaps Mr. Duncan will, by God’s Grace, come around too.
Good point also about how technology can really bring out the humanity of the pre-born. If only Maggie had the courage and humanity to take a look at not what, but who is in the womb, then her party may have been a baby shower.
As always, thanks for reading, commenting, and the reco too!
Take Care, mailloux
What's more distressing is that this isn't just an individual decision
civil truth (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 4:24PM EST (link)There’s a whole subculture that leads to abortion parties. I’m sure that a lot of her decision came from the shared attitudes of her girlfriends and their culture of death that is part and parcel of a certain version of feminism that views babies as a barrier to self-fulfillment that needs to be pushed aside.
How so different than a culture of life – and how empty in the end.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
5 civil
mom2oneson (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 4:36PM EST (link)Young women are very influenced by those around them. It’s really sickthere is so much anti-family anti-motherhood type of thought out there.
Quite possibly one of the most insightful comments I've read from you
aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 6:45PM EST (link)and that’s saying a lot, given your other contributions to the site.
Perhaps one of the most telling indicators of the evil that surrounds abortion is the extent to which it is ritualized and ceremonialized within the sub-culture, and then the extent to which it is rationalized as really having no significance. You would think that if proponents of abortion actually believed their own rhetoric (that a child is not alive or sentient), they would be less focused on ritualizing and externalizing the decision, and that is where diaries like this really show the philosophical inconsistencies of abortion. Thanks mailloux for the fantastic, if sobering, write-up, and thanks for the great followup post, civil.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Thank you for your affirming comment, aesthete
civil truth (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 12:28AM EST (link)We all need some strokes at times to help us carry on.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
God weeps at the destruction of his...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 6:09PM EST (link)children by his children…this is beyond the pale of decent civility. The culture of death that man has created since the beginning of time has only escalated into the realm of the unimaginable and yet there it is staring us right in the face. I pray they burn in hell for they are truly EVIL.
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I wonder what they would have thought if their mothers had aborted them.
penguin2 (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 8:55PM EST (link)In a philosophical context, could they even grasp the difference Maggie was making with their support vs. the obvious choice their own mothers had made?
Not only is the culture of death destroying our society, the culture of hedonism is right there with it.
Mailloux, I am at a loss for words for the distress and yes, fury I feel as they party and laugh and dance in anticipating the murder of a child. Maybe God can grant them mercy at Judgment Day. Many of us cannot join in that prayer.
My only comforting thought is that those tiny souls are resting in the arms of Jesus and our Blessed Mother. The babies will at least be loved by God.
This is a tearful diary, mailloux, I am sure you understand.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
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I've often wondered the same thing, penguin2. nt
Xasteius (Diary) Wednesday, July 15th at 9:49PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.
I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.
penguin2, tearful describes it well and so does lost
mailloux (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 1:11PM EST (link)The people at that party seem about as lost as you can possibly get. They are like the prodigal son competing with the pigs for a bit to eat.
As we grow closer to God, we become more human. As we drift away from Him we become less human. Because of their rejection of love, the people at that party rejected God and as a result appear only as a shadow of what a real human is supposed to be. It reminds me of the C.S. Lewis Book, “The Great Divorce” . . . the people from Hell were mere shadows of precious little substance (that is, true humanity).
Thanks for commenting.
Take Care, mailloux
Quoting from an American Thinker article:
EvanWeeks (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 1:31PM EST (link)AT’s resident recently Liberal convert writes:
EvanWeeks – Dad. Conservative. Patriot.
People who call themselves pro-choice must help break the cycle of violence.
Uma Richie (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 12:31AM EST (link)The author of the story writes about the “systemic sexism” that Maggie and her friends had suffered. I suspect he is referring to abuse or rape. To me, it seems like a situation where victims have become abusers.
Maggie and her “friends” want to kill the baby because he/she is weaker than them and they can exert power over him/her.
Maggie’s “friends” in trying to control the situation are exerting power over her, and making her experience their own guilt and shame.
Maggie’s “friends” are also exerting power over the father by excluding him — emasculating him when his instincts are telling him to protect his child, even though he agreed to the abortion.
Because it is highly unlikely that a pro-lifer would be invited to such a party, it is up to self-proclaimed pro-choicers to ensure that an abortion is not being sought because of a cycle of violence. (Somehow I doubt the “caring physicians” at the clinic are going to ask the right questions.)
I can understand that the author of the story did not know what to say in response to Maggie’s announcement of pregnancy. He was no doubt surprised. But I wonder if anything would have changed if instead of asking, “What are you going to do?” he instead said, “I always thought that you would be a good mother,” or “Let me put you in touch with people who can take care of both you and the baby.”
The “feminist” party attendees funded the murder of a child, contributed to the destruction of a mother and father, and validated the actions of the abusive women. I guess that’s why they call it the “feminist mystique.”
Uma Richie, a great summary . . .
mailloux (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 1:05PM EST (link)and quite frankly, better than mine. Your last paragraph says it all:
“The “feminist” party attendees funded the murder of a child, contributed to the destruction of a mother and father, and validated the actions of the abusive women. I guess that’s why they call it the “feminist mystique.”
Thank You!
mailloux
Murder for Convenience
mikehurst41 (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 11:58AM EST (link)Can you imagine someone holding a party to raise money for Grandma’s funeral when Grandma is going to be killed because it’s not convenient to care for her anymore? And poor Grandma would be in attendance. It’s the same difference.
mikehurst41, excellent comment and perfectly logical
mailloux (Diary) Thursday, July 16th at 1:03PM EST (link)It is exactly, as you say, the same difference, only you can more readily see grandma. No effigy is needed.
Thanks for the great comment.
Take Care, mailloux
just put Grandma in the next room
Darin_H (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 9:15PM EST (link)and don’t think about her as a person. It’s easier that way.
A visionary coward says that anger can be power, as long as there’s a victim on TV – Flat Top, Goo Goo Dolls
The worst part is
conservativediehard (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 12:44AM EST (link)a lot of the women at that party probably got knocked up afterwards because such women tend to be loose so that one abortion party probably led to another dozen or so abortions in the next month.
Not a worthy comment
civil truth (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 12:48AM EST (link)I don’t want to jump on a newbie, but this comment (snarky, gratuitious insulting, and wrong on facts at many levels) is really not helpful to the discussion. Please try to be more reasoned next time.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
He's a ghost
Finrod (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 2:36PM EST (link)Neil got him on the annoying Jesus/pedophile thread.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?
Prochoice? Got a question for you
Hi, I'm a retread of diakrioi. Friday, July 17th at 5:11PM EST (link)Many of you say that abortions should be “legal, safe, and rare”. Why should they be rare?
I'm bothered
cars Friday, July 17th at 5:16PM EST (link)by a few things here.
I’m bothered by the article itself. While I have little doubt that people do organize parties to raise funds for various things – I have some skepticism about this. I’m also bothered by a lot of the details offered about this party – the red sheet in particular. It seems to me to be an unlikely affectation.
The red sheet/womb, the implied celebration of the event, the anti-male behaviour of this woman’s supposed female friends. Surely if they were her friends they would show her more respect and consideration – and some deference to a caring partner who is willing to support her.
It reads more, to me, like a story crafted to provide a laundry list of just the sort of details that would most offend, coupled with the most obvious stereotypes of women associated with the pro-choice movement.
That the story has, at least, achieved that objective is clear.
What bothers me most is the blandly offered and, it seems, readily accepted conclusions about women who might seek an abortion. Whether one supports that action or not – the simplistic assumption that women would do so because, as one poster puts it:
“Maggie and her “friends” want to kill the baby because he/she is weaker than them and they can exert power over him/her.”
seems to be something of a leap. Even Sarah Palin admits that she had a moment where she contemplated it upon learning about Trig. I would hardly characterize her moment of temptation/weakness in such a fashion.
To put such a facile characterization on abortion doesn’t serve the pro-life movement well at all. It deliberately ignores the complexities of life that drive women to make that choice.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
You've taken my assessment of a single case
Uma Richie (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:33PM EST (link)and then turned it into my opinion of all abortions. That’s hardly intellectually honest. Please retract.
One more thing, cars.
Uma Richie (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 5:44PM EST (link)In my life experience, I have seen women manipulate other women and tear down caring relationships in the most devious ways.
You may have a very kind heart and you may be the truest friend in the world, but that does not mean that everyone shares your loyalty and forbearance.
Whatever
cars Friday, July 17th at 6:44PM EST (link)I may think of abortion – I certainly don’t feel that women make that choice simply because they want to kill something weaker than themselves in order to boost their self own esteem.
I think that’s a dangerously facile judgement and insulting to women in general – as is the implication that women manipulate their friends to such an extent purely out of malice.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
Again, generalizing my assessment of one case.
Uma Richie (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:56PM EST (link)The truth hurts sometimes, but you have to face facts. Some people, not just women, who have been abused become abusers, as the coverage of Michael Jackson’s death reminded us over and over again.
Another fact that you have to face is that in a manipulative, abusive abortion, the mother’s right to have her baby has been obliterated. You cannot honestly call yourself pro-choice or a feminist without seeing the injustice to mother and child.
I can certainly see
cars Saturday, July 18th at 8:11AM EST (link)the injustice to a mother and child in a situation where an abortion is coerced.
Your remarks seem to suggest that there are cabals of manipulative feminists who somehow make it their life’s work to coerce or force abortion on the unwilling.
I find the characterization of the pro-choice movement in such terms to be itself manipulative – feeding into the worst stereotypes about women and the reasons they may choose abortion.
It is not a simple issue – and to combat it the pro-life movement cannot fall into the trap of demonizing those who choose abortion. In doing so you alienate not only the women you want to help – but other women who might otherwise work for the cause.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
manipulative feminist
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 10:09AM EST (link)cars is seems like if you have ever been on the other end, like a women needing medical care. If possible I refuse to see female physicians because I’ve had multiple experiences where a female physician had such strong anti-baby anti-family anti-mothering beliefs that for whatever reason seems to effect the care they give me. With male physicians I have found they are always focused on the problem I’m presenting with. So it does seem like there are women that do make it their life’s work to influence the unwilling. I’ve been there on the other side of it. I’ve found the same thing with them pushing birth control too.
it seems like that if.. nt sorry :)
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 10:23AM EST (link)nt
ignorance of the capabilities of man...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 7:58PM EST (link)is no reason for your skepticisms validity. Wake up, cars, people do strange things and people make up stories to justify there actions in the complete obverse of what you consider rational. So yes, it is reasonable to assume that people have abortion parties to raise the funds to snuff out a life, and yes from a psychological standpoint it is realistic to assess one kills out of sense of power or control, and do not think for a minute that there are not people having abortions that find wicked pleasure in it. Matter of fact the whole my body my choice is just that control over life which is the exertation of power or control.
So, take a leap, remember the abortion doctor that was just killed actually had funerals for the aborted babies as some sort of therapy.
Thanks DTOM.
Uma Richie (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:53PM EST (link)I am packing for family vacation. The laptop is NOT coming with us. I hope you have a troll-free week. May America still be here when I get back…
have fun, do not take the laptop...
DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:58PM EST (link)it makes the trip more enjoyable. I think America still has a few weeks left before you will find your private health insurance MIA. Enjoy, your family trip.
You could just take the laptop anyway and not have it connected
Richard Mullins (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 9:04PM EST (link)That’s the way I would do it, if I had a laptop. I’m really thinking of getting a refurbished Dell before I go on vacation.
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
The poster Uma
cars Saturday, July 18th at 8:04AM EST (link)accuses me of trying to take his/her assessment of one case and extrapolating it to his/her views of all abortion cases.
That’s exactly what you seem to be doing here – especially in the suggestion that there are women who take a “wicked pleasure” in the act and that I may be naive for not recognizing it.
I’m just trying to say that the pro-life movement doesn’t do itself any favours when it simplifies and demonizes women who choose abortion and who support them.
In doing so you alienate the very women you wish to influence.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
cars, you need to realize that the public is
janis (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 8:29AM EST (link)slowly but surely coming around to our side on this issue. Diaries such as this are valuable for exposing the falsity of the pro-abortion side claims that this procedure is safe and should be rare. Do you know any other medical procedure that would make people behave in this fashion? Obviously abortion is a subject that makes people have to dance on the edge of the abyss in order to justify it and I don’t call that safe or sane.
As to alienating women we might wish to influence, perhaps the reason that the public is now coming around to our way of thinking is because we have continued to take the stand and not be apologetic about it. Would that “conservative leaders” on our side could notice that fact and take their own stand on this and other conservative issues.
I guess
cars Saturday, July 18th at 10:07AM EST (link)the issue here is that I’m skeptical of the article in the first place.
I don’t believe that people/women are behaving in this fashion. This fashion being the alleged celebration described here, the dancing, the completely offensive concept of the red sheet – complete with the requisite misandry of the feminists in the crowd.
This article strikes me as false in many ways – not the least of which is that it hits every stereotype that the more extreme elements of the pro-life movement use to demonize women who choose to abort.
Again I say that the issue is not so simple as that. Even good women can contemplate such an action for a variety of reasons – I referenced Sarah Palin’s moment of doubt upthread.
It seems to me that there’s too much of a tendency to pretend that women choose to abort for reasons of pure selfishness or self-aggrandizement. I don’t believe that is true.
Something the article prompts me to think about is this: if the couple in question needs to raise money to avail themselves of a medical procedure (laying aside just what that procedure is in this case) are they really adequately prepared to take on the financial responsibilities of parenthood?
Understand, I’m not offering financial need as an acceptable reason to abort. What I am saying is that it will inevitably be a consideration for women under some circumstances – and possibly the defining one for many.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
cars, it might be cheaper to off Granny when she
janis (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 10:32AM EST (link)gets more expensive to take care of, so will you excuse that as well? As to the couple in question not being adequately prepared for the financial responsibilities of parenthood, that would describe a whole lot of folks around the world, including my own son. There are several points that can be made here. The first is that no one is ever completely prepared for the demands of parenthood, it’s an “on the job” type experience. Doing the hard work of being responsible and making sacrifices for your child is what parenthood is all about, and if you do it with your whole heart, you will be a much better person and citizen for having made that effort. Too many people today don’t want to do that hard work, ergo they are just fine with the gov. stepping in and taking over in so many ways.
Yes, financial need will certainly be a consideration for women in regard to abortion. That doesn’t excuse their decision to kill their own child. They can carry the baby and put it up for adoption. Many couples seeking to adopt a baby would be willing to pay the medical bills through the pregnancy. The bottom line is that most abortions are performed for selfish reasons, cars. If you can think of examples where that’s not the case, please list them.
As to whether or not this diary is truthful, you would do well not to question the veracity of mailloux. He is a rock solid example of a Christian conservative and I have no reason to doubt what he has written here. The fact that it is repugnant and painful to read and think about does not mean it isn’t true. Stroll around the comments sections at places like Daily Kos or HuffPo on any given day and you will find plenty of reason to believe in the kind of attitudes that mailloux writes about.
a lot of women buy into the
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 11:26AM EST (link)it would be better for the kid not to exist than to suffer. A good example is ender’s post or even the rep that I posted in his thread saw women without diapers during an evacuation so decided it would be better if the kids were never born. Instead of setting up some privately funded emergency preparedness workshops they jump to say these people should not exist.
Also it’s weird also this cutlure has set up this kind of “perfect” standard for mothering like she needs to be well rested/happy/unstressed or else she can’t give her child what they need and she needs a break from her kids until she returns to that point. I see it in Christian circles too. It seems like they just don’t value that thing between parent and child where just being together and surviving is what is actually necessary. The women may feel “bad” or may feel like it’s “wrong” to bring a child into the world. This could be from external pressure too. She probably has mixed feelings but she may feel like she isn’t “allowed” to be happy over the new life due to the response of others and those ideas about things must be perfect like how she feels and financial issues. She may be scared do to the materialism in this culture of what babies/children actually need and think she needs a lot of money to raise a baby. I think we should be full of information and knowledge about public and private financial assistance. The income limits for medicaid are extremely high when a woman is pregnant. It’s extremely easy to be approved for medicaid while pregnant, most can even recieve a temporary card with just a positive test from the health department.
If the mother has a place to live and food to eat she has enough for baby. I don’t kow about subsidized daycare in other states but here all a woman has to do is just apply for some kind of public assistance and she can get subsisized daycare. Crisis pregnancy centers will give diapers and baby clothing. There are thrift stores too that will allow a women to “shop” for so many items for free.
Most EMS offices will give out car seats and fit them too. Once she is a parent she will be independent for financial aid for college and tuition will be free if she gets the max pell grant and attends a community college.
another thing I noticed with some liberals/pro-choice
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 11:59AM EST (link)type of thinking folks is they are often kind of immature as uncomfortable with hard situations. They always seem to want to just do something no matter if it’s for good or not. I can’t really describe it but I noticed it. They have this response to these situations like they are a medical emergency like a blocked airway it’s totally inappropriate for the situation. I’ve seen it with other things too, they are just uncomfortable around less than what they think is a perfect situation. I think if helping women with those mixed emotions just to take some time and reassure her she doesn’t have “to do” anything at this moment and things will be ok. Obviously they feel that pressure about doing something and we need to pe prepared to counter that. We need to communicate that every decision doesn’t need to be made right now and things will be ok.
I'm not questioning Mailloux's veracity
cars Saturday, July 18th at 11:32AM EST (link)I am questioning the veracity of the author of the article the diary is based on and the conclusions mailloux has reached as a result.
I didn’t offer financial need as an excuse for abortion – but I do think that it is undoubtedly more of a consideration for many women than the suggestions made here.
It is also not as simple as asking women to carry to term and offer their child for adoption. There can be very severe financial and social repercussions to that option as well. Someone may be found to carry the medical expenses – but is that where it ends? Not likely. Pregnant women can lose their employment very easily. For someone in a precarious financial position that might be enough to tip the scales. We need to recognize that there are no simple solutions.
Whether the original article is true or not – I really don’t believe it is typical of the majority of situations in which women choose abortion – nor do I think it is representative of the mindset of those women in the respect that in this particular case it appears to be celebrated.
It is that characterization I’m quibbling with. I don’t think it’s useful to pretend that all women choose abortion are venal and selfish as they are being portrayed and discussed here. It’s inherently insulting to women in general – as are the underlying themes of misandry associated with feminism in the article.
I think it’s dangerous to make those assumptions.
I’m not going to address the conflation of this issue with discussions about the merits of healthcare reform re: doing away with Granny. I don’t feel it’s relevant to my basic points about the article and the way it leads the discussion of abortion to be framed.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
Discuss it or not as you please, but the point remains, cars,
janis (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:33PM EST (link)that to kill an innocent baby because it represents some financial difficulty is no different than doing away with anyone else in your family because they’re an added and unwanted expense. And you don’t get to choose how the abortion debate is framed, it is what it is: the murder of an innocent life for largely selfish reasons.
Too expensive to have the baby? Should have thought of that before engaging in that kind of activity which conceives the child. Might lose your job due to pregnancy? Should have thought of that before conceiving the child. Might lose your relationship with a man who doesn’t want kids? See the previous two reasons.
Bottom line, cars, is that abortion is murder of a defenseless and innocent child. It doesn’t matter what the reason is, the outcome is the same, a dead baby. No matter how you wish to characterize women who abort their children and the men who consent to it, the baby is killed. That’s the inescapable fact that you cannot mischaracterize. Your concern is only for the women, I’ve noticed, never for the baby. Why is that?
janis
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:53PM EST (link)I think he saying is that to kill isn’t the first concern and we shouldn’t label all women that have abortions that they have a single thought to kill/be selfish that they have mixed emotions. I agree with you that when abortion is used as the solution that is where the evilness/selfishness comes in. I posted below before I saw your comment. The thought that influences women that abortion is even a solution does contain that evilness/selfishness.
We can’t use the do not engange in that type of activity. So many women are in relationships where they may not have much say if they have relations are not. Many may use poor judgement in the situations they put themselves in but are taken advantage by creepy men (like a drunk or high woman).
"To kill" may not be the first concern or thought, mom2,
janis (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 1:38PM EST (link)but let’s face it, the word “abortion” means the death of a living being, a child. There is no other meaning for that word but death. To say that a person is being selfish when they choose to abort a baby rather than give birth to that child is no more than a statement of fact. The mother chose her own life and concerns over the life of her baby. And, yes, mom2, I know there are many, many situations that a woman may find herself in in which a baby would really stress her ability to cope. That’s where faith and prayer and God come in. For a mother in one of those situations to pray for help and guidance before deciding there is no other way but abortion would, I would venture to guess, stop many abortions from happening. I cannot claim to know the mind of God, but it is not possible for me to think that He would give “Get an abortion” as the answer to an earnest prayer.
As to the idea of not engaging in “that type of activity”, there are many remedies for making sure that that type of activity doesn’t result in the conception of a child. “Accidents” do happen, but that, to me at least, is a signal that that child was meant to be conceived, meant to have a life.
I’m sorry if I sound too judgmental in this situation, mom2. Don’t mean to, but it’s impossible not to conclude that an abortion is chosen as a solution because that’s what the mother determines is most convenient for her.
cars
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:46PM EST (link)I don’t think we are labeling all women that have abortions as having that single type of thought but the thought that abortion is a solution and what is behind that is evil and does contain those things as selfishness/evilness. Maybe the women main concern is the responsibility or her relationship or fear or she really believes like what I posted above that a less than perfect life should not exist but it the solution to have an abortion is where that selfishness/evilness comes in. It’s still putting financial concerns, a relationship with a boyfriend/husband or parents, her job/school plans, her own fears, her __(fill in the blank), over the life of her baby.
"when it simplifies and demonizes women"
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 11:34AM EST (link)Cars, at 6am, I wrote a response to what you were saying and unfortunately, lost it in the nether world of the net. Was too tire to redo then, but now I see I want to say it.
Are you a pro-abortionist? You sound like one. to say the pro-life movement simplifies and demonizes women” who have them is a strawman’s insult. There isn’t anything simple about abortion or those of us who see it as morally and legally wrong. Nothing you have said shows a moral concern about it, legally individuals are supposed to be protected from murder, in other words a right to life. That’s in the Constitution. The rulings from the Supreme Court have not been based on that fundamental right.
Now as to your questioning the diary’s authenticity itself, that’s just a smokescreen by you. Remembering my own youth and hearing the stories from my own college aged children, tell me it is completely plausible. Not only do you have excessive drinking today, you have drugs and a society that supports an anything goes mentality. Hedonism if you will. Thirty years ago, I might think it couldn’t happen, today nothing shocks or surprises me.
Questioning Mailloux’s “veracity” (see Janis below) really is not nice or right. Don’t insult him.
Also, what is the definition you are using for “facile” there are several and I want to get it right.
We are not a bunch of cold, unfeeling and ignorant people who “deliberately ignore the complexities of life” as you said earlier and the only people we “demonize” or take to task are those who promote a culture of death and encourage the destruction of innocent lives.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
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thread changed while I was typing, Janice comment above. nt
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 11:39AM EST (link)Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
penguin - with all due respect
cars Saturday, July 18th at 2:16PM EST (link)I’d like to be clear that I’m not questioning Mailloux’s veracity. Posters such as yourself are seeing an insult where none was intended or offered.
I question the conclusions that Mailloux has drawn from the events in the linked article. It is those conclusions – and the bald fact that the article’s portrayals leads precisely to them – that bother me.
To quote Mailloux: “The “feminist” party attendees funded the murder of a child, contributed to the destruction of a mother and father, and validated the actions of the abusive women. I guess that’s why they call it the “feminist mystique.”
Aside from the clever snark at the end – the other conclusions and those voiced further upthread about manipulative women coercing others into abortion are what I object to.
I didn’t say that the pro-life movement in general demonizes women and simplifies the issues – I said that conclusions like the ones voiced in this thread in response to the linked article do. And as such are insulting to women in general – and so should be avoided.
I’m not going to speak of my own views on abortion and I would appreciate if you don’t make any assumptions in that regard. In the context of this discussion they are irrelevant. I’ve tried to approach the discussion from a dispassionate viewpoint.
The linked article very obviously feeds into a set of stereotypes that easily allow an automatic response of disgust and attendant moral superiority. It prompted that response in me. I’ve tried to look at exactly why.
When I realized that I was reacting as much to the apparent celebration of the event – as well as the actions of the women towards the lone man at the party I began to feel like I was being manipulated. The red sheet business just seemed rather over the top to me.
What prompted my entry into this diary were my doubts about the veracity of the linked article and the issues I’ve tried to articulate in response to that.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
It is harder to make the BMW payments and pay for diapers - money (selfishness, greed) is a huge factor - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:33PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
maybe it's diapers for an already born child, car insurance or rent
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:09PM EST (link)We should keep in consideration it’s not always luxury items that women are stressed about financially. Not that it mitigates the situation but I think it’s unfair to say greed if the concern is financial.
Maybe she has a history of addiction or is an addict now. Look at the way child protective services deals with women that have a history of addiction. I don’t see any pro-life or conservative group advocating to help them.
With welfare to work and the work requirement many pregnant women may not be able to keep up with the job hunting/paperwork filling out/etc that is required if she can’t work and needs some cash assistance.
Just look at situations that women find themselves in and she is 13 – 50 year old it could be a pregnant women’s situation.
Now the times we have protested outside the clinic, what you posted is what I see. People driving in and out with new luxury cars. Lots of parents that look financially comfortable with the teen daughters in the back seat. I’m sure there are don’t want to downgrade their life but we should be aware that many are in the middle of a real situation they need some assistance with. It could be something like a light bill or a rent payment.
kowalski
mom2oneson (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:14PM EST (link)Mike I know you are a real advocate for the poor and not ignorant of the situations I posted. I’m started to understand what you said about the democratic policies destroying the black family. I just wanted to post that if it’s financial it’s not always a not wanting to downgrade it could be a real situation they need some assistance with for basic needs.
agreed - I have longed used the BMW example as a metaphor for all selfish needs - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:30PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Appreciate your response, and a "dispassionate viewpoint"
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 2:54PM EST (link)discussion about the diary ‘may’ be possible, but a dispassionate discussion about the topic cannot be. Once you noted your objection to the believability of the story, there really is a loss of objectivity.
I do feel you stated and continue to imply stereotypical attributes to those on the tread who have discussed this diary with you. IMO, not one of the posters, starting with Uma and all the way to myself said anything that warrants your perception. Unless, you are adhering to preconceived opinions.
I still take exception to your skepticism on the mentality of the participants at the party and your labeling of us as “deliberately ignoring the complexities of life.” IMO, that does a tremendous disservice to the participants of the pro-life movement as well as people discussing this with you on the tread.
Fair enough on not discussing your own personal position on abortion. I do think your stand on the issue is what clouds your view of us as well as your take on the diary itself.
As far as Mailloux. He will probably check in on this diary and offer quite sound reasoning and rebuttal. It is the weekend, and it may be after that, be patient. He will address your concerns. We ‘know’ him and I do not think you do, he is due tremendous respect because he knows what he is talking about. I am Not saying you don’t, but he can answer certain points for you.
I thank you again for responding. I look forward to any further discussions that may occur when Mailloux and you talk.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
I've never seen Mailloux comment here on weekends.
TNJim (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:11PM EST (link)Family time I’m sure. Plus, we all know what Christians do on Sundays…
That's what I was thinking TNJim. We're 'holding' the fort for him.
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:18PM EST (link)I’ve just tried to think and respond in a way Mailloux would be proud of. But he has the expertise, style and as I said, respect from all of us.
.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
How come you won't tell us your views on abortion?
janis (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 3:00PM EST (link)As to not making assumptions from what you have written so far, we are free to do so. As I pointed out above, your overriding concern seems always to be for the mother, the baby is not mentioned at all by you. Why is that?
Claim dispassion all you care to, cars, but your viewpoint comes through anyway, both by what you say and by what you do not say. All in all, I prefer mailloux’s writing as he doesn’t hesitate to say what he believes and why. You don’t do either and therefore are suspect.
I don't choose to disclose my position
cars Saturday, July 18th at 11:35PM EST (link)for two reasons.
The first is that my objections to the article have less to do with the fact of the abortion per se and more to do with the way the women are portrayed – and as a result of that – subsequently discussed in this thread.
The issue that originally prompted me to enter this discussion was that I felt that the linked article was emotionally manipulative in its portrayal of women and soliciting an attitude that appeals to those of us with pro-life beliefs but at the same time both denigrates women and subsequently clouds reasonable discussion about how to reduce or eliminate abortion within our society.
We have posters speaking about a culture of abortion – of women who consider children as a “barrier to self-fulfillment”. We have other posters discussing deceitful and manipulative women coercing others into abortion and feminists emasculating men. We have posters speaking of women who want to kill a child because it is weaker and doing so allows them to exert power and thus boost their self esteem.
All of those assumptions about the reasons that women seek abortion are offensive to me – because as an intelligent and, I think conscientious, woman I resent the implication that women in general act out of such callous self interest and without any consideration of the moral implications of their actions. Even women who choose what is essentially seen as an immoral act rarely do so without considerations other than purely cavalier self interest – in my opinion.
So, I don’t choose to disclose because I don’t wish to have my opinions automatically accepted or rejected on a basis other than their pertinence or relevance to the points I was trying to make. Other posters can make assumptions – but they are only that.
(I don’t know if I’ve been as clear as I’d like here. It’s late – and I think my thought processes are getting a bit cloudy. I know what I’m trying to say – I’m just not sure if I’m actually saying it. I’ll check in again at some point tomorrow.)
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
This is not the time to give up now nt
Richard Mullins (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 8:05PM EST (link)Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.
Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.
I'm bothered that you over think.
Vaughn Harold (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 9:47AM EST (link)Women choose abortion because they do not want the “child”, period. It is an atrocity that doctors, those who would save lives, would even offer such a service for women. There is only one motive for someone that takes life for a living and that is to gain a profit!
I do not care what motivates them: a child is a blessing.
I do not care about the complexities of life (as a society we should help those who cannot help themselves): a child is a blessing.
I do not care if the article is manufactured: a child is a blessing.
I don’t care about what went on at this party, although what took place is an absolute atrocity: a child is a blessing.
I do care that people are fundraising (why is it so expensive that people would have to fundraise for the procedure?) for the killing of an innocent “child” because it is considered a burden.
I do care that our society is so twisted that such events take place.
There is no choice when one simply does not want the “child”.
Amen Vaughn Harold. "A child is a Blessing"
penguin2 (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 10:17AM EST (link)not a mistake, not an inconvenience. That is not to say there aren’t stresses, concerns or anxieties associated with having a child, but new life is a Blessing. We would not all be here without that!
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
True, anything of real value requires hard work (sowing) and patience (reaping).
Vaughn Harold (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 10:44AM EST (link)Abortion is just another tool used to make “life” easier on “me”, and it is just as much an evil to our society as the welfare system has become.
cars, sorry for the late reply, but . . .
mailloux (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 12:17PM EST (link)Weekends in my home weren’t made for Michelob; they’re for God and family. I have four young children and they keep me wonderfully occupied from sun up Saturday to sundown Sunday. It’s good work if you can get it!
I’ve read through the thread and your original comment. First off, I’d like to say that to the best of my knowledge, the post by Mr. Duncan on Alternet.org is legit. He posted under their “Reproductive Justice and Gender” section. If the post is ever found to be false (that is, Mr. Duncan’s post), I will immediately say so in an updated version of my diary (which, as you know, is a commentary on Mr. Duncan’s).
If you find Mr. Duncan’s post to be unbelievable, then I suggest you hang around any run of the mill public college or university for a spell. Read the bumper stickers on students’ cars. Attend some events thrown by student groups with a feminist aspect. Heck, just read the opinion section of the student newspaper. There is certainly a militant, angry aspect to the pro-abortion movement. Hence, Mr. Duncan’s description of a red sheet hanging from the ceiling for revelers to dance behind in effigy of the unborn is certainly well, well within the realm of possibilities.
My post (which again, is a commentary on Mr. Duncan’s post on Alternet.org) examines the trivialization and rationalization of abortion. Is my post too simplistic? It being a blog post and not an entire book, it will certainly leave out much. There are myriad ways in which abortion is trivialized and rationalized. Mr. Duncan and his cadre were but one . . . and one type that I’ve seen a great deal of (I work for a university).
By your comments I will take the not so great leap (in my opinion) and assume you are “pro-choice” or at the very least, extremely sympathetic to several rationalizations for abortion, including aborting for financial reasons. A genuinely pro-life individual will recognize and accept two critical tenets. They are:
1. The preborn are fully human persons who have as much right to life as you or I (already born persons).
2. Economic factors, personal factors, and nearly all health factors (save for the life of the mother) should not trump someone else’s right to life.
There is a time and a place for compassion and there is a time and a place for judgment based on truth and justice. Compassion and justice can perfectly co-exist and do so with perfection in God. Mankind, then, can and should practice both. Compassion should not diminish justice and visa-versa. Hence, compassion for a struggling single mother is the absolute right human response. Help through churches, charities, crisis pregnancy centers, and adoptive parents are available. Does this remove all the challenges of pregnancy? Of course not, but should those challenges be reason enough to end another human person’s life as a solution for relieving those various stresses (financial, personal, health, psychological, etc.)? There, cars, is the matter of justice. On the two pan balance of justice, the right to life outweighs all the reasons you compassionately mention as understandable reasons for abortion. In my opinion, cars, you are obfuscating the simplicity of the issue. The basic right to life should trump convenience . . . it should trump personal economics . . . it should trump most every challenge faced.
cars, I appreciate you commenting on my diary.
Take Care, mailloux
janis, Uma Richie, mom2oneson, penguin2, DONTREADONME, Mike gamecock Devine, TNJim, Harold Vaughn . . .
mailloux (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 12:29PM EST (link)Thank you all for your well thought out replies to cars. Sorry about my absence on the weekend, but most weekends I am offline. Thank you for fighting what should have been my battle and doing it so eloquently.
Also, I greatly appreciate and am humbled by those who defended my personal integrity as an honest diarist. Truly, RedState is not only a community of fellow conservatives, but a gathering of friends.
Take Care, mailloux
We know you spend weekends with your family, mailloux,
janis (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 12:48PM EST (link)so that’s one of the reasons we all jumped in to comment without waiting for your input. I think most of us tried really hard to be patient and intelligent in our responses to cars, although it got a little hairy at times, particularly when she wouldn’t answer why she only focused on the woman and not the baby.
Your answer to cars is exactly the reason why we all defended your integrity, mailloux. You did it humbly, directly and with absolute honesty. That’s why we love you so much and put so much trust in your diaries. Indeed, we are friends and it’s a valuable relationship to have !
And there's no such thinas bath houses..circa 1980...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 12:58PM EST (link)Oh and to your claim that you don’t want to disclose your opinion on abortion because it may taint how people perceive your argument, I have only this to say:
Ayn Rand* said that. So since you choose to assume neutrality your support of abortion is implied.
* Thanks to Ender for having this in his sigline and reminding me of this quote.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
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Thank you, mailloux, for being willing to focus
janis (Diary) Friday, July 17th at 9:30PM EST (link)our attention on something so perversely painful to contemplate. It is the exposure to the sunlight of public attention that will continue to sway people more in the direction of being against abortion. For many, they probably assume, if they dare to think about it at all, that women have the procedure with as little fanfare as possible and then go home to recover with feelings of sadness mixed with relief.
To shine the light on people who celebrate the death of innocents will make many view this abomination in a different and altogether more appropriate light. Just like the “memorial service” that George Tiller offered at his aboritorium, a stomach turning notion if I ever saw one and one that I found breathtaking in its hypocrisy. It’s my personal belief that our acceptance as a nation of this practice for the past 30+ years is one of the biggest reasons why we are facing the utter ruin of our country at this juncture. You cannot build something good on the bodies of innocent children killed for convenience.
Freedom.
NightTwister (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:13PM EST (link)More than anything, liberals have no regard for the freedom of those that cannot speak and/or fight for themselves. Abortion is just another example of this truth.
Conservatives want to help those that cannot help themselves. Liberals want to help those that won’t help themselves.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
NightTwister, I had heard that before...
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, July 18th at 12:50PM EST (link)never has it been so perfectly applied as you just did it. And it has even more meaning to me now.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
a party?
LISA BULLOCK-HOCK (Diary) Monday, July 20th at 12:39PM EST (link)I’ve never heard of such a party, but it is disgusting just the same. Thanks for the story.
Cut, Cap, and Balance–Imagine that, living within your means. What a concept