The White House’s actions in the health care debate have made clear the fundamental change from the Bush administration’s way of doing things that President Obama has brought to the White House.
The Bush administration treated America’s enemies as dangerous threats bent on destroying the country and used every resource at its disposal to defeat them while respecting American citizens’ right to disagree with its policies.
The Obama Administration tries to appease America’s enemies and uses every possible opportunity to cower to them while treating American citizens that disagree with its policies as dangerous threats bent on destroying the country, using every thuggish tactic at its disposal to silence them.
A line has been crossed
johnCV Friday, August 7th at 4:44PM EDT (link)Although I detest everything the 0bama stands for, he was still my President by law and tradition.
No longer.
He just quit that job with that speech in Virginia (my home). I no longer feel obligated to call him ‘my’ president. He is now the New American Ruler who wants to subjugate over half the population for the benefit of his political minions. He demands fealty, not repect.
I fear this will not end well.
Bill Clinton is to Mark Sanford as . . .
toughintn Friday, August 7th at 6:27PM EDT (link)The comments below from the current President are akin to Bill Clinton saying the following to Governor Mark Sanford:
“Hey buddy, what is wrong with you? I can’t believe you put your state through this trauma. You can be sure we’ll put a squeaky clean Democrat — hopefully just like me — in the governor’s office to bring morality back to SC. If you need inspiration to get your act together, just look at how long Hillary and I have been married! In fact, if not for the vast right-wing conspiracy, we’d never have had any bumps in the road in our marriage. And feel free to call if you could use some marriage counseling. Eliot Spitzer and I are co-writing a book on marriage, including one chapter about how your wife can be your greatest political ally. You could use more than a little help in that area.”
****************************************
http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/214499
[snip]
“Obama also did some campaigning for himself, defending his administration’s efforts to fix the economy and blistering Republican critics, who he blamed for creating the crisis he inherited.
“I expect to be held responsible,” Obama said. “But I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.”
Obama accused his GOP critics of having “selective memory” about the economy and said, “When I walked in we had a $1.3 trillion deficit. That was gift-wrapped and waiting for me when I walked into the Oval Office.”
****************************************
Bring Bush Back
joesephsixpaque Friday, August 7th at 10:06PM EDT (link)George W. Bush was a man of GOD and my president, not this socialist muslim Obama, So what if Bush lied to the american people and falsified evidence to start a war in Iraq, so what if he politicized the Department of Justice, so what if his economic policies helped destroy our economy, so what if pretty much all of his domestic and foreign policies were a total failure, he is a man of God and that makes him a good president.
[My President is such a miserable failure that I'm reduced to causing trouble on websites and getting banned for it.]
Good bye, troll.
SoFiMil Friday, August 7th at 10:15PM EDT (link)And don’t forget to say “chocolate” for your farewell pic.
http://www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
G'bye
Neil Stevens Friday, August 7th at 10:25PM EDT (link)Hey SofiMil, that’s my line.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Thy speech bewrayeth thee
SoFiMil Saturday, August 8th at 1:18AM EDT (link)Like your use of lowercase when mentioning the Bible in your other post before you got the blam stick, I noticed you spoke in terms of the american people, not the American people.
http://www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
You mean the ignorance wasn't enough?
SoulEspresso Saturday, August 8th at 3:01AM EDT (link)These trolls sound like bad attempts at left-wing parody of conservatives. It doesn’t work for them because they don’t know any in real life, spending as they do any time away from the computer sniffing each others’ armpits.
I'm curious ...
whoframedrudy Saturday, August 8th at 2:09AM EDT (link)Did any of you Redstaters ever report anti-war activity to the government? Sure, we were rough with each other — I called President Bush–I won’t repeat it, everything under the sun I could think of. You said I was appeasing terrorists. But that’s not the same as reporting my IP address to the White House.
I think flag@whitehouse.gov is unconstitutional. Next thing he’ll be telling us to wear our underwear on the outside.
You’re gonna need more than one lesson. And you’re gonna get more than one lesson.
I never heard of anyone reporting anti-war protests.
SoulEspresso Saturday, August 8th at 3:09AM EDT (link)Freedom of assembly, freedom of speech. Men and women are willing to die for the right of those with whom they disagree to do so (I think this willingness is nonpartisan although the military trends rightward). I thought the SF Code Pink protests incredibly disrespectful of this, I must say.
It runs in my mind that Americans were encouraged to report suspicious activity, but that’s like reminding people of 9-1-1. After 9-11 everyone was jumpy.
I haven’t seen anything but mockery of the flag@whitehouse thing (great line about the underwear, btw), but I didn’t report myself as many here have.
PUH-LEASE
mangrilla Saturday, August 8th at 9:57AM EDT (link)“while treating American citizens that disagree with its policies as dangerous threats bent on destroying the country, using every thuggish tactic at its disposal to silence them.”
You cannot be serious in saying that the republican party/Bush administration never resorted to these tactics during their time in power. The revisionism here is astounding. Anyone remember Cheney insinuating that disagreeing with the war in Iraq was tantamount to aiding terrorism? Whether you agree with his insinuation or not, he made it and it is most certainly an example of casting your detractors as dangerous threats to the country.
I claimed that the Bush administration had encouraged things like this:
- but I refused to give examples, when pressed.
I cannot recall Cheney shoving citizens around to prove his point.
ocleverone Saturday, August 8th at 10:20AM EDT (link)Let’s forget that citizens are being shoved and pushed and injured - let’s just blame it on the Bush administration.
Let’s forget the turn in your neighbor policy of the current administration - let’s just blame it on the EEEEVVIILL Cheney.
I am calling you as the revisionist.
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher
Get with it
mangrilla Saturday, August 8th at 10:37AM EDT (link)My response was only to the quote in question. I make absolutely no assertions as to what Obama has or has not done. I also don’t blame anything on Cheney, but I do point out that the previous administration most certainly cast their detractors as dangerous. It’s simple fact. If you wish to argue with someone over those other points, please find someone who is actually making them.
The thing you need to realize, though, is that Obama would NEVER have been president if it weren’t for the fact that Bush were such an unmitigated failure. Wishing for him back or glossing over the reality that was his administration does nothing for conservatives.
I claimed that the Bush administration had encouraged things like this:
- but I refused to give examples, when pressed.
Still in blame Bush mode.
ocleverone Saturday, August 8th at 10:43AM EDT (link)Let’s take the focus off the shenanigans currently underway to blame Bush.
Your post is still “it’s Bush’s fault”.
Yeah, and I am still calling you a revisionist.
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher
My point has been
mangrilla Saturday, August 8th at 3:13PM EDT (link)and continues to be that it is simply revisionist history to say that Obama is casting his political enemies as dangerous, whereas Bush did not. He most certainly did. I’m not taking focus off, I’m just saying that the OP is making a completely false assertion in his post.
It would be different if the post were only about Obama’s current “shenanigans”. But it isn’t. The post says that there’s a change brought by Obama because he is casting his enemies as dangerous where Bush never did. Again, this is completely false. That’s the only point I’m really making.
I added, in my second post, that glossing over the reality of the Bush presidency does nothing to help conservatives. I don’t particularly find this to be that controversial of a statement either.
I claimed that the Bush administration had encouraged things like this:
- but I refused to give examples, when pressed.
Specifics please.
mbecker908 Saturday, August 8th at 3:36PM EDT (link)NOW.
I’m not a moderator, but Moe is.
s.p.e.c.i.f.i.c.s.
And, since you won’t have any, let me be the first to say…
G’bye.
Not like you’ll be missed or anything.
*You* get with it.
George Claghorn Saturday, August 8th at 10:51AM EDT (link)Bush isn’t President. Cheney isn’t Vice President. Neither have them hold a position of political power any longer. Even assuming that they were, your argument is meaningless.
You have (a) taken Bush’s and Cheney’s words and actions out of context, and (b) refused to accept that your Dear Leader could possibly be imperfect. Sorry, Bush and Cheney had a war to fight, which is different (oh, but just a little bit) than saying, “to hell with the opinions of millions of Americans!” in a healthcare power-grab.
“Victory comes, though we know not when. We must be happy warriors until the end.
For those of you who struggle with what goes on, who see retreat and capitulation, and who feel like not just your political opponents, but those who hold dear all those things you hold as blasphemous — be cheerful. Be happy. Victory is already yours.
You must just have the courage to not get discouraged and have the will to fight on.” – Erick Erickson at RightOnline
You entiretly miss the point
mangrilla Saturday, August 8th at 3:19PM EDT (link)Again, I’m not defending anything Obama has or has not done in my post. Why some people on here feel the need to fight against a point I’m not making is beyond me.
My only point is that to say that the Bush administration didn’t cast their political detractors as dangerous for the country or anti-American is unadulterated fantasy.
I claimed that the Bush administration had encouraged things like this:
- but I refused to give examples, when pressed.
Mangrilla, you need to heed Moe Lane's orders immediately
civil_truth Saturday, August 8th at 3:22PM EDT (link)…since he has the blam stick. This post doesn’t comply with his request for specifics.
Just some urgent advice - if you want to stay.
And Rightly So!
Mangrilla, you were asked to provide specifics
TNJim Saturday, August 8th at 3:34PM EDT (link)and Moe seconded that motion. So I as Civil_truth did suggest you do so. With links. And no, linking to lefty blogs doesn’t count.
But since you didn’t listen to Moe and didn’t give those links in your post of 3:13 today I daresay the countdown clock is ticking
Join the RedState Strike Force
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
BZZZZT! Wrong answer, mangrilla.
Moe Lane Saturday, August 8th at 4:29PM EDT (link)The right answer was either to provide specifics, or retract.
Bye.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Mangrilla, I'm not buying what you're selling.
penguin2 Saturday, August 8th at 10:57AM EDT (link)We’ve been down this road before. You’ve said the same stuff, used the same strawman’s arguments and calling Pres. Bush an “unmitigated failure” suggests you have other goals for being here.
The past eight years did not show our side to have thugs out there pushing other citizens around. In fact it is only the leftist Dems and their cohorts that have a significant history of doing that. Whether it is Code Pink, Black Panthers or Union thugs.
So who are you, and why are you here?
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.
Benjamin Franklin
You are sorely mistaken
mangrilla Saturday, August 8th at 3:47PM EDT (link)Please take a moment to check out my posting history. This is the only time I’ve even mentioned President Bush.
My case for Bush’s failure? As a fiscal conservative he had an abysmal record. He presided over the largest deficit the world had ever seen at the time, he passed unfunded medicare pharmaceutical entitlements, and let us please not forget that he had his own hands involved in his own incredibly large stimulus.
As a figurehead of the party, again, he was a failure. Please see the 2006 and 2008 elections where Republicans were trounced by Democrats, mostly because the association with the name “Bush” was so toxic. You could see this in the primary where candidates ranging from Romney to Huckabee worked to distance themselves from portions of his policy.
As a social conservative, I’m not really sure. I really don’t care about that type of stuff, to be honest. I guess if keeping gays from marrying is your thing, he didn’t do much to hurt that cause… But I don’t recall (and admit I could be wrong on this) him doing much to do away with abortion (other than the typical lip service), which is typically a pretty big deal with social conservatives.
To me, personally, he was a failure due to his complete ineptitude in the area of science, and to his near crippling inability to avoid nepotism in his appointments (Harriet Meyers, Michael Brown).
I think you and many of the people on this site need to move past this whole, “My side of the political spectrum is PURE, whereas the other side is completely corrupt!” It’s juvenile and incredibly naive. The past 8 years shows that Republicans never push anyone around? Again, I’m sure that I could point out incidences (freedom of speech zones, “Brooks Brothers Riots”, or the threats of violence that have happened around some of these town halls already) but you’d either have a reason to dismiss them or you interpret them differently (just as I don’t find anything brought up in this post to be alarming in the least). C’est la vie, I suppose. That is where we will most likely find an impasse.
Main point, though, is let us at least try to acknowledge history. If you are one of the people that wishes that Bush were still around, bully for you, but it’s not going to do a damn bit of good for conservatism as a whole. And if you’re trying to say that the Bush administration, and conservatives in general, didn’t try to cast war-detractors as dangerous, you simply weren’t paying attention.
I claimed that the Bush administration had encouraged things like this:
- but I refused to give examples, when pressed.
to add:
mangrilla Saturday, August 8th at 4:09PM EDT (link)when I say that “I’m not alarmed,” I mean that I’m not alarmed by statements such as this, “Let’s forget the turn in your neighbor policy of the current administration” because I think they are incredibly histrionic.
Whereas the commotion at recent town halls I am most certainly alarmed by. But again, to blame that entirely on Democrats or say that this is all due to Democrats sending out “thugs” is not quite in touch with reality.
That doesn’t mean that Conservatives should take all the heat. Neither side is innocent.
I blame Democrats for hyping up a town hall event in the face of what would be a large conservative turnout but not taking care to get everyone in seats. I don’t blame them for having SEIU members involved, as I believe they sponsored one of the events (could be wrong on that) and let’s face it: Unions are a democratic constituency. They have as much right to be part of the process as a group like the NRA or any other conservative leaning group does.
I blame Republicans for shamelessly misleading the public on some concerns (I’m looking squarely at you, Sarah Palin). Of course people are going to be incredibly angry if they think the government is going to start euthanizing the elderly or the infirm, as she has suggested. But to believe that’s the case is patently absurd, however, some people trust a lot of what they hear and believe it anyway (case in point, I believe there was a top rated diary about that on here for a while about that very topic). There is a difference between talking about end of life care and killing people, but some people don’t know that and it’s been exploited.
In the end the blame has to go to everyone though because we’re not going to get anywhere yelling over each other. We’ve got to move forward in good faith, plain and simple, but that’s hard to do when so many varying interests are obviously obfuscating issues.
I’ve unsurprisingly seen a lot of call for my banishment already, I don’t think I’ve said anything particularly controversial, but do what you must.
I claimed that the Bush administration had encouraged things like this:
- but I refused to give examples, when pressed.
Please answer how flag@whitehouse.gov histrionic.
ocleverone Saturday, August 8th at 4:46PM EDT (link)and just who gets to define good faith? The Democrats? No thanks.
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher
Oops...I see I'm talking to a ghost. nt.
ocleverone Saturday, August 8th at 4:49PM EDT (link)To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher
Conducting a seance, ocleverone?
TNJim Saturday, August 8th at 5:13PM EDT (link)Yeah, when the troll said below “It’s absurd to think that the administration handed down some orders for SEIU members to stir up violence” I guessed he missed that Kathleen Sebelius called for the SEIU to keep doing what you’re doing.
A note to Kathleen: We will, too. Non-violently, with cameras.
Join the RedState Strike Force
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
Eenie meenie chili beanie,
ocleverone Saturday, August 8th at 9:14PM EDT (link)The spirits are about to speak…or in this case, not speak.
We should all send Kathleen pictures of our cameras. Think she would get the message?
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher
mangrilla provide specifics.
mbecker908 Saturday, August 8th at 10:38AM EDT (link)And now would be a good time for that.
Next post, in fact. [NT]
Moe Lane Saturday, August 8th at 10:58AM EDT (link)NT
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Bush Admin. officials met with Cindy Sheehan
Mark Impomeni Saturday, August 8th at 12:55PM EDT (link)Remember? When she was grandstanding on her hero son’s grave outside Bush’s ranch that August? Bush officials went and met with her, respectfully. No one called the police to have her and her cohort moved. No one brought in Union goons to intimidate her. No one told her to “not do too much talking.”
There’s no revisionist history in my post. Just in your comment.
———————–
Damn the Obama! Full speed ahead!
I see the issue here
mangrilla Saturday, August 8th at 4:27PM EDT (link)or at least believe I do. Whereas you are attributing an incident like the most recent vid on the front page to the administration “treating American citizens that disagree with its policies as dangerous threats bent on destroying the country,” I certainly don’t see it that way. I think it is an effect of a very heated issue being fought out by some very uneducated (both sides, mind you) people.
As I say above, I can’t blame anyone for involving SEIU in this. There’s a video of up to three SEIU members causing controversy on your front page. SEIU has over 2 million members though, so to say that those members, a very democratic constituency, shouldn’t be involved, is absurd. It’s absurd to think that the administration handed down some orders for SEIU members to stir up violence (and if they did, how ineffective, right? 3 people out of 2 million???).
My issue with your post came from trying to say that detractors were treated as dangerous, but only by Obama. Again, I don’t see this town hall putting health-care opponents in “Free speech” zones. In fact, it is clear from the various videos that some healthcare opponents were allowed in and were certainly voicing their opinions. I also don’t see Obama or Joe Biden insinuating that detractors from their administration are aiding our foreign enemies in their opinions.
I claimed that the Bush administration had encouraged things like this:
- but I refused to give examples, when pressed.
Ah, "both sides" equivocation
aesthete Saturday, August 8th at 5:06PM EDT (link)It is a fact that Rome had some among its citizens who were for surrendering to Carthage in the Second Punic War. That doesn’t mean that “both sides” wanted Carthage to win.
It is verifiable that members of the Communist Party preferred a “peaceful”, “inevitable” spread of Communism, but “both sides” didn’t want peace.
Likewise, the Democratic Party under Obama has used strong-arm tactics to an extent that hasn’t been witnessed since at least JFK (though I think it is without precedent, myself). From asking citizens to report neighbors who have the “wrong” thoughts on HC, to smearing the opposition as evil in the PR effort for every major bill so far, to threatening corporations, there is no comparison to Bush Administration’s mealy-mouthed iterations of the obvious fact that, if you are actively defunding our military and voting against acts that would increase military readiness, you are aiding the enemy, regardless of the benefits*.
Aggregation, as a rule, invites generalized statements in conversation, and most people are aware of that. Reciting the “both sides” crap played out by the MSM wrongly grants moral equivalence between two aggregated groups who, on the whole, have been very different in their application of the right of protest and their respect of the American people.
Personally, I don’t think that you’re a moby/troll (not that it matters what I think), and I’m not exactly the guy who stuck “Bush ‘04″ stickers on his car, but if you give this “both sides” nonsense any credence, you are missing the forest for the trees in a major way.
*BTW, the benefits oftentimes outweigh this cost. For instance, if Republicans were to hypothetically establish a law that violated the 4th Amendment, I would say that the cost of losing our freedoms would outweigh the benefits of a more secure country. OK, threadjack over
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
Good he's gone. He was suspect on Moe's
penguin2 Saturday, August 8th at 4:44PM EDT (link)blog about Crowley/Gates. djemi and I ran into him then and he was very mobylike. besides, I thin he was trying to sabotage the site with the large embeds.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.
Benjamin Franklin
Yeap
djemi Saturday, August 8th at 10:52PM EDT (link)So maybe we can spot one, I knew he was gone as soon a Moe second mbeckers request for specifics, didn’t get a chance to point out my suspuscion then as I was having connection problems, then the wife and boy came home. And anyway the weilder of the blam stick sees all.
“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy
Hey djemi, we can feel good about this one.
penguin2 Sunday, August 9th at 12:05AM EDT (link)I had been about to try and link Moe’s diary above when all this was happening, but the linking failed and I decided to go with what I knew. And it really boiled down to my questions of “who are you and why are you here”. On Moe’s blog, he had taken the same attitude and liberal/leftist talking points. There wasn’t any substance in what he was saying.
Even when playing “devil”s advocate” something comes through that the person has good intentions. None of that was with this guy. He just came to annoy and see how much he could get away with. What he could not hide was his underlying disdain and many years of liberal indoctrination.
I asked JLD about guidelines, but he indicated (rightly so) we don’t want to divulge all our secrets for figuring them out. So we can team up as needed and get the job done: )
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.
Benjamin Franklin