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The Republican ticket that could have won …

A look backward ... What if?

My view of most conventional wisdom, especially when it comes to politics, is that all too often, it is long on convention and woefully short on actual wisdom. One such is the constantly repeated conventional wisdom – particularly popular with liberal cocktail circuit chatterers and the “moderates” in the GOP that are forever trying to impress them – that there is a huge untapped “centrist” or “moderate” majority, distressed by the “bickering” in Congress, dismayed by all the “divisions” in politics, crying out for a return to the “civility”, “moderation” and “Bipartisanship” of a bygone era. These voters, we are told, have been “turned off” by all the “rancor” and “controversy” which has made them “turn away in disgust” from politics.

One of the key arguments from McCain’s supporters during the fight for the Republican nomination was his alleged appeal to this key demographic, i.e. “centrists”, Independents, “moderates”, etc. who are “tired” of the “partisanship” and “rancor” in Washington DC. Thanks to his many “mature” “centrist” positions and the key “centrist” Bipartisan compromises and legislation he’s been a party to, not to mention his careful eight years of cultivating the “respect” and “good will” of the Press Corps (witness his primary endorsement by that paragon of fairness and objectivity; the New York Times), these voters, at last presented with a candidate with a record of putting into practice their “deeply held” “centrist” “principles” of “bipartisanship”, “consensus” and Congressional “comity” in Washington on the ballot, would enthusiastically open their wallets, volunteer and troop to the polls on Election Day to vote for John McCain. Or so we were told. Many formerly Blue states would turn Red, as these “moderates”, long-neglected by “both sides” and their “partisan bickering” ways, inspired by his promises to end the “bickering” and “reach across the aisle to get things done” would turn out en masse to give him their votes.

Err … no. It turns out the Beltway opinion mongers were wrong … or lying. By the time the convention rolled around, McCain was nearly broke, his campaign was finding it difficult to fill a mid-sized hotel conference room and the “moderates”, “Independents” and “centrists” that he was supposed to have brought back into politics were instead opening their wallets and pledging their support to his opponent in remarkable numbers. Let’s face the facts; the McCain/Palin ticket was never going to win against the liberal juggernaut that was the Obama campaign, and it was not because of the lady whose name was at the bottom of the ticket but the man at the top. Until he picked Sarah Palin to fill the VP spot and actually get Republicans to care about making him President (so Palin can get to be Vice President), John McCain was on a path to losing north of forty states. So maybe it’s time to retire the conventional wisdom that John McCain and his supposed vote-magnet catalogue of Bipartisan “achievements” was the best choice the GOP could have made to carry our banner.

I believe now as much as I believed then that the far better choice would have been Mitt Romney, and if we hadn’t elected to take advice from the Boston Globe, we wouldn’t find ourselves staring into quite so deep an abyss because we picked a punch-pulling “Bipartisan” to head our ticket on the supposed strenth of his “appeal” to what is largely an imaginary segment of the electorate. It still would have been Obama’s race to lose, but personally, I can’t see where Romney would have done any worse than John McCain, and with the right Vice-Presidential pick to complement what he brought to the table I can certainly see where he would have done a lot better.

One reason, first of all, is that I really don’t think Romney would have wasted any amount of time worrying about whether or not he would be seen as an “honorable loser” by Beltway apparatchiks and talking heads – and second, no, I don’t think Romney would have suggested “suspending” the campaign simply because Harry Reid asked him to, to demonstrate his “Bipartisanship”. And, furthermore, I find it inconceivable that the Romney campaign would have allowed some misguided notion of “Bipartisanship” to stop them from tying Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines, their campaign contributions and the entire sub-prime mess around Obama and his Democratic colleagues’ necks when the whole thing hit. I have no doubt whatsoever that Romney would have relentlessly pounded Obama on it in person and on the airwaves up until Election Day.

For all that he was a Republican from Dark Blue Massachussetts and McCain from Red Arizona – or, ironically, because of it – Romney would have been a hell of a lot more aggressive and significantly more focused and organized than John McCain. That sort of discipline and aggression may have rubbed many Republicans the wrong way during the Primaries, but it’s the sort of discipline and fighting spirit that works in a general election, where you need a fighter, not someone worried about whether his opponents would still like him at the end of the day.

And if he had made a solid Vice-Presidential pick … well, I wrote way back in January that the ideal ticket for the GOP against whoever it is between Hillary and Obama the Democrats ended up picking would have been Mitt Romney and (if he could have been convinced – indulge me and assume he could have been) former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace (USMC). It was my signature (Romney/Pace 2008) for a while even after McCain had secured the nomination.

At the risk of sounding immodest, everything that has happened since then has only made me more confident that I was right; a Romney/Pace versus Obama/Biden ticket would have been a very different story indeed.

    Executive Experience

  • Mitt Romney: A former Governor in a state whose Constitution gives a whole lot of muscle to the Governor’s office – even if the Democrats’ majority in the MA state legislative houses negates a lot of that for a Republican given the state’s deep dark political hue. And notwithstanding 800 vetoes overturned by Democratic super-majorities, the man still ended up being pretty effective in office. Either way, Romney brought four years more executive experience in government than anyone on the other side. Add his years in business as the hugely successful CEO of both Bain Capital and Bain & Company and that boosts his executive experience credits beyond anything Obama and Biden combined can touch.
  • Peter Pace: A former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the very first Marine to have served in that capacity as the highest ranking military officer in the United States. Looking at his resume, one will see a former Director of Operations for the Joint Chiefs, Commander – U.S. Marine Corps Forces (Atlantic/Europe/South), Commander in Chief, United States Southern Command and Vice-Chairman and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. That’s quite a lot of executive, very executive experience.
    The Economy

  • Mitt Romney: Widely considered to be one of the best and brightest CEOs and businessmen of his generation – not to mention a Harvard MBA (and JD). Thousands of people are today employed in companies and businesses he helped get started and/or rescued from the brink of bankruptcy, including the Olympics in Salt Lake City. And notwithstanding all the scorn poured on his successful rescue of the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics during the Primaries, by all accounts, it was an amazing job – at least, back when success in the private sector was counted as a plus for Republican Presidential candidates by Republican Primary voters.
  • Peter Pace: On multiple occasions, in multiple positions of ever increasing responsibility, for extended periods of time, directed and exercised oversight over billions of dollars worth of the nation’s defense resources, including the lives of more than two million people serving their nation in uniform. Might I also point out that he holds an MBA from George Washington University?
    National Security

  • Mitt Romney: After 9/11, practically every Governor has had to bone up on security issues. Prior to that, as CEO of the Salt Lake City Olympics, especially after 9/11, he had to work closely with experts in the field to secure the games against terrorist attacks. I’m not arguing that all that is a particularly strong point in his favor – but then again, this is true for all Governors and Senators/Congressman not serving on the Armed Services and Intelligence committees. And this certainly applies much more to Barack Obama.
  • Peter Pace: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff …? Highest level of security clearance? Untrammelled access to the DIA? One of the key people who greenlighted “The Surge”? Is there really any need to go any further?
    Foreign Policy

  • Mitt Romney: Romney’s previous life as a businessman dealing with various multi-nationals and in many cases foreign government agencies and regulators is something major he brought to the table, especially considering the folks at the top and bottom of the Democratic ticket. And considering the fact that business, economics and foreign policy are joined at the hip, and in fact, tend to be at the root of a whole host of issues of international concern (see: credit crisis), dismissing his experience in business and knowledge of the economy would be stupidity on stilts.
  • Peter Pace: Again, let’s go through the man’s resume; Chairman, and Vice-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Commander – U.S. Marine Corps Forces (Atlantic/Europe/South), Commander in Chief, United States Southern Command. Let’s be blunt, whoever thinks one can be on the Joint Chiefs, much less head it, and hold all the positions listed above previous to it, and not be conversant with the ins and outs of foreign policy (which is even more joined at the hip with military/defense policy) would be the picture perfect illustration of ignorance in its purest form.
    Base Appeal

  • Mitt Romney: I admit, this is where Romney would have needed some help – he simply received no reasonable benefit of the doubt. If Romney began a speech with “Good morning” today, a large number of people would call it a “flip-flop” because he began another speech with “Good evening” 12 hours ago yesterday. However, I believe that once the passions of the Primaries had died down, the rank and file would have united rather more easily and solidly behind him than they did for John McCain. Largely because, unlike McCain, Romney had not spent most of the last eight years launching missiles at his own party just to get to hang out with Wolf Blitzer and George Stephanopoulos on Sunday morning. And to be honest, Obama was not exactly a paragon of consistency.
  • Peter Pace: McCain got the base on board only when he picked Sarah Palin. I think Romney picking Peter Pace would have had just as electrifying an effect, perhaps even more. I mean, what’s not to like? From all indications, he seems to have strongly held traditional views on marriage at the least. With that in mind, and the fact that he’s a Roman-Catholic, I think it would be a safe bet to assume that he’d also be pro-life. Second, his record of service in the military is sure to make the average Republican swoon, and this would be without knowing what he did with his stars on the day he was forced to go into retirement by sheer Democratic spite. Which brings me to the third issue – how many Republicans would not crawl through broken glass to make sure he gets to preside over the same Senate Democrats who cut short his career of service to his troops and his nation?
    Regional Balance

  • Mitt Romney: Massachusetts by way of Michigan. Would very likely have been stronger than John McCain in Nevada and Colorado.
  • Peter Pace: Virginia by way of New Jersey and New York. Would have been the first American Vice-President of Italian ancestry – which would have had some effect on the voting patterns, I think. Chances are that he would have drawn some more of the Catholic vote as well. The fact that Virginia was a key swing state and he’s a native son certainly wouldn’t have hurt.
    Money

  • Mitt Romney: After years of railing against money in politics, and making it more difficult for ordinary citizens to contribute to causes and candidates they supported, it shouldn’t have come as a shock when John McCain found himself at bankruptcy’s door … until he selected Sarah Palin to be his Vice President. Romney had no such devotion to the concept – ironically, like Russell Feingold when the rubber hit the road. And considering that he would not be counting on some ephemereal Bipartisan “moderate” “centrist” segment of the population to contribute to his campaign, and the fact that he’s actually quite a good fund-raiser, I don’t think the money gap between him and Obama would have been quite so wide.
  • Peter Pace: As Obama easily proved, base enthusiasm equals money. Upon Romney announcing him as his pick for the Vice-Presidency, millions upon millions will flood into Romney Campaign and RNC coffers from hyper-excited Republicans.
    Public Perception Issues

  • Mitt Romney: Whatever else i.e. “phoniness” Romney projected, he also very easily projected intelligence and competence, and he had that key ability to explain himself – the latter being something George W. Bush utterly lacks. Add in the Harvard MBA and JD, and the traditional Press Corps’ questioning of a Republican’s intelligence is effectively silenced. And unlike McCain – through no fault (and actually through his heroism) of McCain’s – he projected a measure of youth and health that an apparent significant number of voters claimed would be a factor on Election Day. Another thing which seemed to have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way during the Primaries is that he was squeaky clean, too clean it seemed even. Not even the Massachusetts Democratic Party’s attack dog house organ (the Boston Globe) could find anything more incriminating on him beyond the fact that he did not personally demand to see the immigration papers of the people employed by the company doing his landscaping. This, though, would be Romney’s main challenge to overcome … and a campaign is a very long time.
  • Peter Pace: His monstrously impressive resume aborts any question about his intelligence. Also apparently squeaky clean. And like Joe Biden, he has a son serving in the Marine Corps. Add in the fact that Obama was notably silent when the Democrats decided to force him out just to embarrass President Bush and the story writes itself. Furthermore, chances are his selection would have made people Colin Powell and Ken Adelman withhold their endorsements – which actually did cause some damage (not that it affected the end-results any) to McCain-Palin in the final stretch.
    Religion

  • Mitt Romney: To me, Romney being a Mormon was a minor issue. Irrelevant. After all, I’m not a Christian myself – i.e. I face the East five times a day. Anyway, apparently, it would have been a major issue for a significant number of voters (traditional Republican voters especially) if he had won the nomination, or so the chattering classes say. My own thoughts are more focused on trying to figure out if the Democrats would have been stupid enough to try to exploit this with Mormons Tom and Mark Udall running for the Senate in NM and CO? And that’s not to mention the fact that any attempt to make Romney’s religion an issue would have given the green light to the Romney Campaign to start playing clips of “Reverend” Jeremiah Wright “sermonizing” and the words “23 years” in big bold letters scrolling across the screen on ads all over the country.
  • Peter Pace: Catholic. Really can’t see how that hurts the ticket. In fact, it works well … all nice and “inclusive.”

Oh well … no use crying over spilt milk and all that. So think of this as an “analysis piece”, taking some unfair advantage of hindsight. After all, if Obama got even an inkling that Romney was talking to Pace, he likely would have picked Wesley Clark, or, to be even more clever, Virginian Claudia Kennedy for his VP.

Anyways, comments, criticisms and other insights showing me where I’m wrong about this are welcome of course (if interested), but this is not an invitation to refight old battles that have long since been made over and done with. Except of course, modesty aside, the fact that I did suggest this as the strongest team we could field this go-round back when it mattered.

That said, I promise my next post will be much more future oriented.

COMMENTS

  • bobnivik

    but really? I’m getting sick of all the Rombot “I-told-you-so”s. Even as one who was okay with Romney, I’m not convinced anyone from this field could have won. It’s over, so save it for after 2010.

  • johninca

    …or as you might say, “quotation marks.”

    Romney was a dud, particularly from a principled conservative point of view. I watched the man in his 1994 race against Kennedy, where he boasted of being pro-choice, like the Liberal lion. This year Romney ran as a conservative and lost again.

    It’s no use. It’s time to admit that Republicans lost because of the economy, Bush and his incompetence. McCain had the worst hand since Watergate, and under the circumstances could have done far worse.

  • aceintx

    I voted for McCain because of Palin…I can’t say for sure if I could have done so had he picked Romney, Pawlenty or any of the other yawners that were being discussed!

    • bobnivik

      never mind much of my above whining.

      Romney may have had a better chance, simply due to the economy, but his main knock was that he was not a “proven conservative,” not that he had much chance to be in Mass.

      Still, isn’t this a different facet of the same stone you say says sank McCain’s ship: “Not Conservative Enough”?

      • mbecker908

        He’s pretty good on national security issues, and just barely pretty good given his clap-trap on torture and Gitmo.

        On everything else, he’s just barely a moderate. He’s not particularly good on spending, only the earmark part. The list of stuff he’s lousy on would take me too long to type.

        The economy certainly didn’t help, but the fact that he is about as exciting as getting invited to dinner with Jerry Ford and Bob Dole so you could pick up the tab is what killed him. No vision. No principles. Nothing but a hand reaching across the aisle every time he managed to get the bandages off from the last time he reached across the aisle and got bit.

        No thanks. Wanna win? The Party has to stand for something more than helping Democrats.

  • mbecker908

    Not loudly, and not much. But I doubt Romney could have done much better. I think that Fred would have had the best shot if he’d only managed to wake up during the primaries. Romney or Rudy would likely have suffered the same fate as McCain.

    The only way would have managed worse was Huckabee. Or maybe a Huckabee/Paul ticket. Eeeeeeeeccccccccchhhhhhhh. I gotta go take a shower.

  • David_Hinz

    in Michigan, with the express purpose of denying the state to McCain, I have to say that I would have been only marginally more enthused with Mitt than I was with McCain.

    I had friends who told me they would not buy a used car from Mitt Romney.

    who knows? But, at least we have managed to get past this “moderate” kick that doomed the ticket this year…

    • Nick_Haynes

      You and I are in agreement on this one. But I also postulated that last part because I’ve rarely seen Ace (who I do have a good healthy amount of respect for) show any love whatsoever to Romney.

      Which is fine. After Huck’s campaign and his remarks in his book, I’ll vote for Huckleberry Finn before Mike Huckabee.

      • Martin_A_Knight

        Yep … Romney going to sleep and waking up is a “flip-flop”. After all, if he wasn’t a “flip-flopper” why can’t he just choose one (sleep or being awake) and stick with it?

        • Nick_Haynes

          But Romney would not have nearly had the problem McCain had. Romney could have possibly gotten away with a Pawlenty or a Crist-Republicans who are conservative on some issues and moderate on others. He probably would have needed someone like a Fred or a Jindal-someone who is fairly conservative, but has some decent bonafides.

          What he wouldn’t have had to do, though, is go for someone who needed time to ripen in her job in Alaska and needed a strong and longer introduction on the national stage. As much as I love Sarah Palin, it wasn’t her time, and nobody cleared the path for her. After seeing how the campaign handled it, I suspect that they did it because they needed a shock selection and they were trying to pander to women-which sucks because I can’t stand those who try to play to identity politics (but I can’t see any other reason for how they handled her other than that).

          • Martin_A_Knight

            … people just started to assume it was true. It simply didn’t matter what Romney said about anything at all, people like you just automatically assumed it was a “flip-flop” and went about feeling clever with yourselves because it was the “in” thing.

            So right now, you snark …

            He has a different position each time he appears on television.

            … and I’m absolutely certain you have no proof of this, you’re just posting this up because it’s what the “cool kids” are supposed to say.

          • Martin_A_Knight

            … to cast a vote for Peter Pace.

          • Mark_Kilmer

            be a wonderful guy, but you have to admit that he’s hardly been a bulwark of consistency. His positions do alter. I’m not here saying that this is a bad thing; rather, it is just one of his peculiarities.

            For instance, on my birthday, Romney wrote an Op/Ed insisting that the federal government should let the Big Three automakers go bankrupt. This was opposite the positions he took leading to the Michigan primary, which positions led to his victory over John McCain. Fine. His new position was to let Detroit go bankrupt. I agree.

            Problem is, last Sunday, he went on CNN’s Late Edition and supported a bailout plan.

            This is Mitt Romney. Period.

          • mbecker908

            the thing that really pushed me over the edge with respect to my opinion of GWB was his treatment of General Pace. GWB loyally stood by staffers who were utterly incompetent and who took every opportunity to stab him in the back, and then stabs a man, General Pace, who is the definition of competence, loyalty, honesty and honorable service.

            I love Peter Pace.

  • JSobieski

    Neither McCain the candidate nor the McCain Campaign had much “right” about them:

    (1) Health care plan
    (2) A soft promise to cut capital gains/corporate taxes (did anyone think he would invest a lot in bringing these about)
    (3) National security

    The guy’s campaign was weak because his policy differences with Obama were weak.

    • JSobieski

      Obama was only a strong candidate until challenged in a serious way. The McCain campaign never managed to prick the balloon.

  • Tbone

    People keep mentioning him. Was he the one that carried the same number of primary states as I did?

    • NightTwister

      And you’ll never be able to understand why you’re wrong.

      We aren’t interested in appealing to people like you, because you’ll always vote for the liberal regardless of the letter after his name.

      McCain lost because the conservative base stayed home and the liberal base didn’t.

      Palin could’ve brought the base out if it weren’t for McCain’s response to the bailout. Even she couldn’t help him then.

      Republicans don’t lose because they’re too conservative, but rather they aren’t conservative enough.

      • Jaded

        to far to the right is to far to the left to recognize he is moderate….like FOX news…everyone leftist thinks they are far right because they are so far left!

        Oh an anyone who thought McCain would have won because of Independents who didn’t vote for him because of Sarah Palin NEED a little valium to settle their brain….he would have been routed in at least 30-40 states without that little lady!

        • aceintx

          that raising fees don’t equate to raising taxes on individuals since it does indeed increase the cost of the average citizen to live in…work in…and do business in Taxachusetts in the same way as tax increases…Oh…and please not he didn;t nor advocated cutting spending in any way!

          Then there is his most egregious sin…he systematically and viciously attacked, smeared and slandered each candidate that showed any promise or potential of winning the nomination to the point where there was no one left to win the nomination than the John McCain who was the last choice of almost every Republican except the most liberal establishmentarians!

          Bottom line is this…Mitt Romney is single handedly responsible for the Joke the McCain 08 campaign was because without Mitt Romney kneecapping every other viable candidate in the race…

          So…let me see…I’ve now listed six reasons for my opposition to Romney without saying one word about his supposed conversion to the pro life cause so I’d say you are full of crap about:

          I’m getting sick and tired of everyone here trying to rip on the same lines about him, when the only thing that they can point to with his “flip-flops” was that he was once pro-choice and now is pro-life. Very few people, even here, can articulate any other position against Romney other than that. We’re going to tell everyone that was pro-choice at one time and made that switch that there are certain positions in the party they’ll never be trusted with? Great way to bring converts in and grow the party.

          Let me tell YOU what I’m sick and tired of…I’m sick and tired of having my decision thrown in my face to back a bad candidate who was one of many bad candidates running this year as if I hadn’t said at least a thousand times that I’d have jumped in with both feet for Fred if he’d have taken off…I’m sick and tired of Squishes and people who don’t listen to a thing I’ve said in hundreds of threads and diaries and accuse me of being a single issue conservative when I’m a true believer in the WHOLE Conservative agenda….and I’ve got dozens of friends here who can vouch for me on that…I’m sick and tired of Romney supporters accusing me of anti Mormonism in the same way I’ve been attacked all my life by Leftists as being racists for not kissing Jesse Jackson’s ass!

          • JSobieski

            Obama was only a strong candidate until challenged in a serious way. The McCain campaign never managed to prick the balloon.

          • aceintx

            as it is which poison would be easier to swallow…I think the Huckabee poison would be easier to swallow than the Romney Poison…but it would be poison either way….hopefully we won’t be faced with that choice this time around and we’ll have real conservatives to support this time

          • DC71

            Let me rephrase my comment. I know McCain is a moderate. McCain ran to the right of himself, not as a right winger. The campaign he ran didn’t make sense since it didn’t seem like him….it wasn’t genuine. That was my problem. You had a unique candidate, and you ran a generic Republican campaign with him. That’s all I’m saying. His campaign didn’t use him correctly, or play to his strengths.

          • Jaded

            Huckabee just nauseates me….I said in the primaries that Romney reminded me of a used car salesman BUT Huckabee reminded me of Jim Bakker…..I would have taken the used car salesman!

          • aceintx

            Romney had in destroying every other alternative to McCain except himself and the Huckster…Romney Pace might have done better than McCain…but there would have been at least as much fence mending than McCain with all the supporters of other candidates Romney had kneecapped!

            And I can’t tell you how enraged I am about the Anti Mormon invective that was hurled around at anyone who raised the most minor objection to him during the campaign…I could have been persuaded to support him before the 2008 primaries…and I even had a pretty high opinion of him to start with…but now?

            I can’t say what I’m thinking without being banned!

          • aceintx

            at this point asking me to vote for either Romney or Huckabee would be like asking to shoot either my wife or my kids…How do you make a choice like that?

            I’d take Huckabee over Romney…but both are appalling choices for me at this point…

          • Nick_Haynes

            You’re one of the few people I’ve seen on here who can do more than the one-issue rejection of Romney.

            Perhaps I came on a little strong. I obviously see that I stirred up some feelings in you, and I apologize for inadvertently doing so. And, FWIW, if you thought I was trying to equate one-issue rejection with anti-Mormon bigotry, let me clear that up: I’m not. Although I certainly seen it in my time volunteering for him, I’m not going to throw that charge out unless I have proof.

            Thank you for clarifying on Huckabee. The only times I’ve seen you on here talking about the various candidates, I always seem to remember you staunchly defending and going to the wall for Mike Huckabee. The only reason I brought it up is because I notice that Romney and Huckabee supporters usually hold the strongest level of contempt for the other candidate (not other supporters), and I thought you might be trying to support Huckabee again. My mistake.

            I’ll try to refute these points tomorrow. I’m extremely tired. But when I seen your comment, I wanted to ensure I didn’t go to bed without at least attempting to clear the air somewhat. Outside of your primary selection, what I’ve seen from you has been good, and I have respect for you. I think we just disagreed on candidate selection is all.

  • paulag1955

    The Republican presidential candidates were possibly the most uninspiring group of candidates ever. Seriously, after the snooze fest of the primary season, John McCain was lucky any Republicans were awake in November to vote for him. The economy and GW Bush notwithstanding, I seriously do not believe that any of them could have won, even with the most brilliant VP pick of all time…whoever that might have been.

    • Jaded

      that he cancelled his campaign and than did what all the piglets did made him no different to Independents than Obama….he was just another one of the sheeple in DC!

      • aceintx

        Huckabee was the lesser of a whole bunch of evils for me…I didn’t care for any of them with the possible exception of Fred…and now that 2008 is over I won’t have anything more to do with any of them that were part of the 08 primaries…for me it’s time to move on and put Sarah up against the anointed one and forget the horrors that were the 08 primaries and general elections!

        • JSobieski

          once it came to the general, they turned, and so did the excitement level for his campaign.

          As I repeatedly argued on this pages back in January, McCain was particularly ill-suited to win the nomination because he, unlike every other candidate, was pretty much loved by the MSM and thus he would be in for the shock of running perpetually uphill.

          He didn’t have the mindset for such a run. Quite disappointing given his personal heroic history.

          • DC71

            You don’t have to play nice if you don’t want to. Run you elections as conservative as you want. You’ll pick up some of the base that stayed home. But, will it be enough to overcome the 9 point losses in Iowa and Colorado? Or the 15 point loss in NW? The 11 point loss in PA. You need some moderates and independents to come to your side to win national elections. Pretending that you don’t is just plain foolish.

            Now, you can do it with conservative ideas. I love the battle of ideas, hence why I come here. But, you have to package some things in ways that are relatable to moderate Americans. That is what made Reagan the great communicator. If you don’t realize that there is a difference between relating your political ideology to an individual’s everyday life and cramming an idiology down someone’s throat, you will be doomed to fail in most elections.

          • JSobieski

            The highlight of the campaign was Palin talking about drilling for oil.

            McCain couldn’t appear genuine on even that issue—a basic commen sense issue that was popular with the public.

          • JSobieski

            The Romney-Rudy-Huckabee triangle really split our party in ways that were ultimately very very harmful.

            I will not for in 2012 for any 2008 retread, including even Fred.

          • DC71

            I pretty much agree. His bailout response killed his campaign. Voting no could have helped him, or at least distinguished him. Hell, he could have spearheaded the effort to create a better bill and have been a conquering hero. The fact that he suspended his campaign, only to not really do that much and vote for a bad bill was a killer.

          • DC71

            if you had a generic right candidate. That’s not what you had with McCain. You play to your guys strength. The fact that you ran on Drill, Baby, Drill for a guy who opposed drilling in ANWR made no sense.

          • Jaded

            and yeah they all sucked we need to rid ourselves of this clickish old school Party and get some new and exciting BLOOD and no blueblood :-)

          • SeriousLaff

            NH, OR, NC all could have won their senate seats had they voted against the bailout. GA and MN may still be losses because of the bailout.

            McCain could have saved a considerable amount of money on advisors and just read the newspaper and followed the advise of Dick Morris. No to the bailout, go after Obama on William Ayers, come out agains health care for illegals. It may not have won, but since he didn’t even bother trying to win, we’ll never know.

          • Jaded

            however does that include the VP candidate? now I have settled down on the Palin/Jindal ticket BUT I do want to see what two years of growth does for the fine Mrs Palin and decide…..still loving Jindal but again lets see in two years and lets REALLY see what WE the grassroots can do to effect real CHANGE in the country club idiots who think WE are sheep who shall follow them off the cliff.

            I need only remind you of Curly from the RNC in ND from the front page earlier today

            The REAL problem with RNC are the idiots whom think the small number elected by their own will continue to RUN this party!

            Curly has done for the base what thousands of diaries across the internet could not do and that is SHOW THE PROBLEM IN THE BEST POSSIBLE LIGHT….he has made the explanation from us GRASSROOTERS quite simple….I will be using Curly quite frequently when I make my calls to the “kewl kidz” and telling them the rest of the school is taking over and they are no longer COOL!

          • Hammer2008

            Another turning point against McCain (by McCain) in the campaign.

            One can’t go on and on against earmarks then fold so easily for the $850 billion bailout ($150 billion in earmarks).

            At least Gov. Palin was believable when she spoke on issues and understandable when she had to tow the McCain line.

            Looking forward to Monday! Augusta’s James Brown Arena, 7:30 a.m.

          • DC71

            Since I’m a Dem, you could leave your party and join me :)

            Seriously, I was no fan of the bailout. The vetoed version was bad, and the version that passed was less bad, but not good. However, I do know that we needed to do something to get money into the credit markets. It was all just too rushed. The veto of the bill killed the market that day, costing people billions. You’ll disagree on this probably, but I liked Obama on this. It appeared that he at least took his time and deliberated on what needed to be done. Unlike our leadership (God I hate Pelosi and Reid), who messed the whole thing up. Anyway, totally off topic. McCain’s reaction did kill him.

          • Jaded

            He waited to see what McCain was going to do and did the same thing….they both sold us out and for the urgency that the scaremongers were using and than have it lanquish and have an additional 300+ pages (I forget exactly) and yes you would be a Democrat if you dislike Reid and Pelosi they would would be the Socialist Party BUT I got to say their Leader is one to…but you have won this battle and so you can all of them.

            WE will be working to REMOVE all of them and Harry the weasel Reid is target number one in 2010!

            All of the crap sandwiches that have been given to the markets and still The One wants to spend a trillion more! that should be making you feel all warm and comfy at night :-)

          • DC71

            Knew I would lose you there. Yeah, I know he voted for it. I go back and forth on that bill. I don;t like it, but I wouldn’t have wanted to know what would have happened to the markets if the 2nd bill failed too. The earmarks pissed me off, but the banks needed money to lend, and you can’t let them fail or it kills business. 50/50 call in my book.

  • Swamp_Yankee

    Romney was an absolute stalwart in defense of traditional marriage. Coming from a deep Blue state, he showed a lot of guts. Some loonies wanted him to defy to defy the SJC and go all rogue, but that is radicalism, not conservatism. Its amazing to me how lies and distortions about Romney stuck. Circa 2003:

    • JSobieski

      If Mitt wants to emerge as a leadinng Republican figure (instead of an also ran) he should run for governor of Michigan and implement conservative changes. He can remove the doubts and the slickness criticisms while doing my state a whole lof of good.

      • NightTwister

        Of course our message needs to be understood by moderates. Of course we’ll need to get them to understand why our solutions are to their benefit.

        What we can’t do, is try to cater to moderates by watering down our principles. Reagan didn’t do that. He stood firm in his principles yet successfully communicated them to everyone.

        We’ve tried the compromise and watered-down thing (Bush I, Dole, McCain). It simply doesn’t work. Those moderates that say they want compromise really don’t, and just end up voting for the democrat they wanted anyway.

        • NightTwister

          The intent was to emphasize that the Republican Party has a huge image problem and is an utter failure in getting their message out to the public in a way that they can understand and appreciate.

          We have our work cut out for us over the next couple of years and beyond.

  • David123

    I think that Rudy Giulliani might have won this election, at least against Obama.

    I remember Rudy Giulliani taking on the New York Times instantly after they ran their “General Petraeus-Betray-us” ad.

    With Rudy at the top of the ticket we’d have heard a lot from Jeremiah Wright. We’d have heard more about Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. Certainly other Republican candidates would have been allowed to include excerpts of Wright sermons in their ads.

    Now, I’m not saying being “moderate” is better than being hardcore conservative, but being willing to counterattack against the left is vital. Governor Palin was a superb candidate because she didn’t wear a “kick-me” sign – and better yet she counterattacked using a sense of humor – her reference to Tina Fey was funny, not mean spirited. Her criticisms of Obama and his association with terrorists were true; it seems like every time anyone turned over a rock near Obama, something putrid crawled out; that’s hardly the fault of the Republican party.

    Republicans have got to be willing to be charged with running a negative campaign – as long as it’s true, there’s nothing wrong with it. And furthermore, I don’t think any Republican in any campaign ever has said anything as negative as some of the awful things that were said about Governor Palin.

    • David123

      nt

      • Diogenes314

        With Rudy at the top of the ticket we’d have heard a lot from Jeremiah Wright. We’d have heard more about Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. Certainly other Republican candidates would have been allowed to include excerpts of Wright sermons in their ads.

        You may be right about this, but it would have been irrelevant. We heard plenty as it was and the only people who cared about this were going to vote against The One no matter what.

        Meanwhile, the McCain campaign said next to nothing about Obama being the poster boy for Freddie/Fannie, and even after the registration scam was brought to light, never mentioned ACORN’s role in the housing bubble or Obama’s ties to it. Someone with a little more political common sense and financial knowledge wouldn’t have made that mistake.

        • NightTwister

          Here’s what he said after losing the Primary to Gerald Ford.

          Our people look for a cause to believe in. Is it a third party we need, or is it a new and revitalized second party, raising a banner of no pale pastels, but bold colors which make it unmistakably clear where we stand on all of the issues troubling the people?

          A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.

          I do not believe I have proposed anything that is contrary to what has been considered Republican principle. It is at the same time the very basis of conservatism. It is time to reassert that principle and raise it to full view. And if there are those who cannot subscribe to these principles, then let them go their way.

          I don’t see how this is any different than what I’ve been saying.

          • DC71

            I see what you are saying. My problem is with the way you are saying it I guess. I agree it is important to stand strong in your beliefs. Many times though, conservatives come across as belligerent (don’t get me wrong here, the left does too). You may not see it, but many in the center do. Reagan had principles, but didn’t alienate people in expressing them. My point about McCain running to his Right was the he didn’t stand on HIS principles, and it made him seem inauthentic. That’s what I meant by this. For a leader of any ideology to be successful, they should stand strong THEIR principles, be it liberal, conservative or a mix. What McCain did was he tried to stand on principles that weren’t his own, and got killed for it. Do you see what I’m saying?

          • NightTwister

            Sorry, but that’s just not the case.

            Had he run to the right, he would’ve won. The best example I can give was the bailout. There’s clear evidence that his support surpassed that of Obama after choosing Palin as VP (which can be categorized as moving the right), and then went completely in the tank for his support of the bailout (which can be categorized as moving to the left).

            See also my comment below RE: Reagan. He said the same thing I’m saying.

          • olsmithie

            5

            Regards

          • jeffreywturner

            The Nutroots, who claim Obama & the Dem’s victory as a mandate for liberal policy only need to look at the campaigns BOTH candidates ran. Both McCain AND Obama were attempting to appear more conservative than they are. Liberals know that they LOSE when they actually admit that they are liberal, so they run as moderates, and then claim a mandate for liberalism when they win. Also interesting to note, is that they ONLY time in the general election campaign when the McCain campaign had any real momentum and apparent chance to win was the time period immediately after he put a REAL conservative on the ticket.

          • mbecker908

            As NT notes above, McCain DIDN’T run to the right. He selected Gov Palin to throw the right a bone, and then his handlers all but destroyed her.

            If you think he actually “ran to the right”, I’d be interested in the issues that you think he moved right on.

            • Note that he said the same thing he’s been saying for years on Iraq and on the war.

            • He didn’t change his position on Gitmo or torture or giving detainees “constitutional rights”, none of which is a “right wing” position.

            • He didn’t even discuss immigration, but that just means he didn’t change his position which is most certainly NOT a “right wing” position.

            • On the economy and federal spending, if anything he moved way left. He supported the $700B bail out and everything else that anybody wanted to throw huge stacks of money at. Certainly not a “right wing” position.

            • On life issues, he barely discussed them outside of the single question from Rick Warren. He passed on every opportunity to press the fact that Obama supports infanticide. Again, hardly a peace offering to us right wingers.

            • On drilling and energy, he made a vague pass on drilling, never came out for drilling in ANWR and never said anything substantive on the subject. And on AGW, he didn’t say a word.

            • And finally, on the sole point that anyone might make about “running right”, his choice of Palin, he never indicated any support for her positions or defended her from spurious attacks from his own staff. All he really did was to tag along at her appearances so he could take advantage of the crowds who came to support Sarah. They were about ten times the attendance of his rallies.

            Anyway, please feel free to enlighten us as to those issues that he ran to the right on and where he was saying stuff that contradicted anything he’d said for years. We aren’t holding our breath.

          • Martin_A_Knight

            Look, I have no doubt that your feelings towards Mitt Romney have nothing to do with his religion. But I submit they also have nothing to do with his record in Massachusetts. I think the guy just rubs you the wrong way. It happens and there’s nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, what it usually translates to is that you’re going to look at whatever it is he does or has done with a jaundiced and completely unforgiving eye.

            Let’s start with his promise to have a nanny state bailout of Detroit …

            Below is what Romney actually said. NOTE: No bail out.

            “I will make a five-fold increase – from $4 billion to $20 billion – in our national investment in energy research, fuel technology, materials science, and automotive technology. Let’s invest in our future.

            “As you know, research spins out new ideas for new products, from both small businesses and large businesses. That’s exactly what’s happened in healthcare. We spend what $30 billion a year in NIH, and we lead the world in healthcare products. In defense, we spend even more. We lead the world in defense products. We also spend money in the space industry. And we lead the world in products coming out of space. Look how industries in these other states that have those advantages that thrive from the spin of other technologies, from our investment there. So if we can invest in healthcare, and defense, and space, why not also invest in energy and fuel technology right here in Michigan?”

            … complete with government training programs and money for the city and state to retrain workers chose winners and losers in the auto industry.

            Here’s what Romney actually said on “training programs” …

            “Second, we’ll turn government workforce training programs that are managed by bureaucrats, into personal accounts that can be managed by the workers themselves so they can gain education at community college or they can pay for on-the-job training in real jobs.

            “There are currently some 40 different workforce training programs in government spread out all over the entire federal government. Now let’s replace the bureaucracy and the bureaucrats with personal responsibility and individual ownership.”

            Oh…and then there’s his gushing praise and bragging about the awesome health plan he passed in Taxachusetts which is now bankrupting the state…

            He passed it? The MA House and Senate had nothing to do with it? If I recall correctly, back then he had the choice of either standing back and allowing the 137(D)-19(R) MA House and the 35(D)-5(R) MA Senate to pass a Canadian style single-payer healthcare bill into law, or take the initiative to propose something that at least allowed the free market a role. He took the latter option. I think that’s leadership, though I’m sure you’ll disagree – after all, he is Romney, eh? That said, I would point out again that he vetoed the eight most budget-busting provisions of the bill that the MA legislature sent back to him, and every single one of those vetoes got overturned.

            My point? At least, he tried. Given the Democrats’ super-majority, most would have just stood back. He didn’t, and I personally give him credit for that.

            Let’s be honest, ace, whichever choice he made, you’re going to damn him anyway. If he had stood back and let the MA legislature pass a single-payer bill with or without a veto (that will get overridden), you’d damn him for letting it happen. Whatever else you may think of “MittCare” – a misnomer because it is more of a product of MA Democrats – , it is far better than the HillaryCare system MA Democrats were set to introduce.

            oh…and I remember his support of the Judicial usurpation of the rights of the people to self govern and supporting the gay marriage ruling there.

            Now this simply isn’t true. And I think you know it. You have every right not to like him, even hate him, but come on … Even the Boston Globe had this to say …

            A review of Romney’s remarks shows that at an October 2002 campaign debate, he said: “Call me old fashioned, but I don’t support gay marriage nor do I support civil union.” Then, after the SJC decision legalizing same-sex marriage, he told WCVB on Dec. 17, 2003, that if he had to choose, he would favor civil unions over full-fledged gay marriage. However, he added: “But that is not my preference overall. My preference overall would be neither civil union or marriage.”

            Here’s the thing, after the Supreme Court of Massachusetts made its ruling, he could either choose to enforce the decision and order town clerks to start issuing licenses to same sex pairs, or refuse and risk impeachment. Again, ace, I really doubt any decision he made would have made a difference to you. If he had refused, you would damn him for violating the separation of powers in MA. As it stands, he single-handedly forced the MA state House and Senate to hold a vote on an amendment to the MA Constitution (i.e. put it on the ballot) that the MA House & Senate Democratic Majority leaders were determined to skip past. Many gay activists hoping to get married in MA and then go back to their states so as to force their states to recognize their “marriage” under the Full Faith & Credit clause had their plans thwarted because he had the foresight and diligence to find a law written in 1913 “that barred out-of-state residents from getting married in Massachusetts if their union would be illegal in their home state”

            Oh…and I almost forgot…his absurd arguement that raising fees don’t equate to raising taxes on individuals since it does indeed increase the cost of the average citizen to live in…work in…and do business in Taxachusetts in the same way as tax increases…

            Again, this is one of those arguments that have their source not in any reasonable opposition to the policy decision but on how you feel about Mitt Romney. If the cost of providing X increases, should the price paid by the customers seeking X also increase? I would think so. The cost of providing and administering various (marriage, gun, drivers, hunting, bar exam, etc.) licenses had gone up dramatically since they were last set in the 1980s – that is a fact. Romney raised fees to cover the costs.

            I submit that if it were not Romney, you would think this was simple common sense. And anyway, ace, if he had not done it, you’d be damning him for the resulting deficit.

            Oh…and please note he didn’t nor advocated cutting spending in any way!

            Err … this is pure A-grade bull, ace. From WiKipedia …

            The state legislature, with Romney’s support, also cut spending by $1.6 billion, including $700 million in reductions in state aid to cities and towns. The cuts also included a $140 million reduction in state funding for higher education … Romney sought additional cuts in his last year as Massachusetts governor by vetoing nearly 250 items in the state budget. All of those vetoes were overturned by the legislature.

            NOTE: Here’s a link for anyone interested to read about Romney’s fiscal record in Massachusetts – with both the anti and pro sides having a say.

            All in all, Romney had 800 of his vetoes overturned, a huge number of them having to do with spending, so your claim here is again, something that is sourced from your dislike of the man and not his record.

            And finally …

            …he systematically and viciously attacked, smeared and slandered each candidate that showed any promise or potential of winning the nomination to the point where there was no one left to win the nomination than the John McCain who was the last choice of almost every Republican except the most liberal establishmentarians!

            Bottom line is this…Mitt Romney is single handedly responsible for the Joke the McCain 08 campaign was because without Mitt Romney kneecapping every other viable candidate in the race.

            Ace. This is another load of bull …

            Look, I’m not denying that Mitt went far too negative, but for you to suggest that Mitt is responsible for McCain winning the nomination is nonsense on stilts. Who was viable amongst the guys running? Hunter? Tancredo? Paul?! Nope. The only people who were viable were Mitt, Rudy, McCain, Huckabee and Fred. Rudy’s decision to bet it all on Florida and forget all the earlier states, and his social liberalism, took him out – not Romney. Fred’s late entrance and lacklustre campaign style took him out without any help from Mitt – Romney barely touched him. Huckabee and McCain got the most of Mitt’s fire, and in the end, both of them teamed up against him to give it to McCain. Unlike you, I very much remember McCain telling his WV caucus delegates to vote for Huckabee just to deny Romney the state’s delegation on Super Tuesday.

            So if you really want someone to blame for McCain 2008, then you’d best take a look at the former Governor of AR (the man you supported back then), not the Governor of MA.

          • Martin_A_Knight

            I’m not arguing that McCain should have picked Romney. I’m arguing that McCain should not have been on the ticket at all, much less have the opportunity to pick a VP.

            What this diary is arguing is that Mitt Romney would have been a better choice than McCain. And just as important, if he had been smart enough to pick Peter Pace for his VP, even you would have been able to muster up some enthusiasm.

          • Martin_A_Knight

            John McCain/Sarah Palin

            Mitt Romney/Peter Pace

            Which ticket was more likely to win?

          • Martin_A_Knight

            … and he was being killed in the polls throughout.

            Until he picked Sarah Palin.

            And then he tried the “moderate” and “Bipartisan” thing again while his VP was doing the “Conservative” thing as best as she could.

          • DC71

            You could have fooled me on that. I think this one case in history where most of netroots and red state actually agreed on something.

          • bs

            most of the RedState regulars opposed the bailout. And I think many of us (I include myself) who reluctantly did support it are now regretting it, and will not support any further such measures. That is not a universal opinion, but I’d say it’s just shy of.

          • DC71

            Off the top of my head, Upholding Enhanced interrogation techniques for the CIA, stating that he would vote against his own immigration bill, embracing his “agents of intolerance,” embracing offshore drilling and coal (I don’t see how you can argue he was neutral on drilling when a theme at his convention was drill, baby, drill), and new support of the Bush tax cuts. It started in the primary, and continued through the general. These positions made me scratch my head and appeared as shifts from his positions on these issues.

            Picking Palin was fine with me honestly. I think the move made sense, even though I think you had better conservative choices out there.

          • DC71

            That’s what I meant, a lot of netroots was opposed to the bailout as well. That’s what I meant, it may not have been clear

          • mbecker908

            The first three were nothing more than passing comments. He never published a position paper or answered any serious questions about any of those. And if you, for one second, think he’d do anything other than front amnesty for illegals, you’ve been in DC too long.

            With respect to drilling, you’re right about that being a big deal at the convention in the middle of $4.00+ gas. He never mentioned it with any sort of substantive comments or program related stuff after the convention and he ran from comments on ANWR like Obama ran from Ayers.

            At the end of the day, McCain’s campaign worked out to be “I was a prisoner of war you know…”, “I’ve been in DC a long time…” and “I’m experienced [whatever that means]“. It was pathetic.

          • DC71

            Some of these were more than just “passing” statements. He not only took back in an interview the agents of intolerance quote, but spoke at Liberty University’s commencement speech. The CIA interrogation flip was actually a vote in the Senate, not a statement. Finally, his flip on the Bush Tax cuts were a hard turn to the Right. So, I’d say it was a little more significant than that.

            But, I do agree with you about what his campaign turned into. By the end, it was a joke. It seemed like you had no strategy at all. Even when they brought up Ayers, Socialism and Abortion, it just seemed like his campaign was throwing crap against the wall to see what would stick. If you are going to negative, have a theme. Don;t just do it all at once, it made him look desperate.

          • JSobieski

            nt

          • vernonia

            “When I hear a campaign is trying fire up its base, I know that campiagn is in the toilet.”

            Hopefully, the GOP pick 2012 won’t need a VP to fire up the base.

          • JSobieski

            I hope that neither runs again, although I fear that both will.

            Let Huckabee implement the fair tax in Arkansas first, before running for the Presidency again.

            Let Romney run for governor of Michigan as a conservative, and see what happens . . . before running for the Presidency again.

            Both of those guys need to prove themselves before running for President again.

            May not have liked McCain much, but we knew who he was.

  • Pingback: » Martin_A_Knight?s blog ? The Republican ticket that could have won … Joe Biden On Best Political Blogs: News And Info On Joe Biden

  • SwingCountyCentral

    Amen^1000

  • indym

    No republican was going to win this time. I think the party should be grateful that they did as well as they did. I had a joke that Romney of 2008 did not agree with Romney of 2004 who did not agree with Romney of 1994. Now I have updated that joke. Romney of November 2008 does not agree with Romney of October 2008. He has a different position each time he appears on television.

  • NightTwister

    …Reagan would’ve lost this time around.

  • Nick_Haynes

    at least in campaigning-he didn’t seem like he even wanted the job. I don’t necessarily want someone whose first words were “I do solemnly swear…”, but I want someone who is getting into it for a reason other than “They made me do it.” I was interested in Fred at first, and then I saw him out on the trail. He seemed like a man who didn’t care one way or the other, and who didn’t have any passion inside him at all.

    To counter your view, though, I think Romney would’ve done better than McCain. When the rest of the pack started to fall, who were the ones rallying to Romney, and who were the ones rallying to McCain? I didn’t hear conservatives saying that McCain had an intriguing economic plan. I didn’t hear conservatives saying that McCain would do well in the area of judicial nominations. The only plus McCain had was his steadfastness on the GWOT, which is incredibly important, but needs to have other facets surrounding it. You can’t be a one-issue candidate.

    Further, I think Romney would have had a much more favorable contrast against Obama. We knew Democrats would paint Republicans as the party of the rich, so why do we care what they say about one’s personal wealth? That was supposed to be Romney’s weakness, but they hammered McCain pretty hard with it too. But that’s about where it ends. Romney has the ability to speak eloquently and capture a crowd. Romney would’ve had a better defense of negative campaigning other than “If Obama had only done the town hall meetings” (which honestly made McCain sound infantile).

    And, I don’t mean to Romneybot it up here, but can you imagine a situation where Romney would’ve needed a candidate like Palin to excite the base? He might not have been the peaches and cream, but I predicted early on that McCain would need a staunch conservative in order to get anyone even remotely interested and to get the vote of the base. I love Palin to death, but it was too early for her (not to mention the campaign’s handling of her might have ruined future chances). Had Romney been the one, he might have been able to go for a more experienced candidate who didn’t have to be pure red-meat in order to work.

    But, it’s all in the past. Hopefully, after 8 years of Bush, the 4 years of Bush preceding Clinton, and two failed McCain campaigns, our party will learn what happens when “bipartisanship” is the key concern. Bipartisanship can be factored in, but if these squishy leaders are going to either get stomped or do a less-than-average job, then why not go with the real deal so we can at least have some pride at the end of the day?

  • Nick_Haynes

    nm

  • Nick_Haynes

    Think about it. We had a president whose favorability numbers are in the tank. We had a candidate who promptly made people want to take a nap. The economy is heading down the drain, we’re involved in two wars on a global-type front, and [INSERT PROBLEM HERE].

    Yet McCain pulled 47%. Think about that-47%, with every conceivable point breaking against him, both those out of his control and those in his control.

    We might not have been able to win with the field that decided to run, but I think that comes from two things: 1.) our best candidates decided not to run; and 2.) we haven’t built up a GOP up-and-comers bench.

  • mbecker908

    But I don’t think he could have won. Frankly, the guy is about as exciting as watching grass grow. I do think he’s a very qualified guy, but I question how much of his private sector success is transferable to politics, since in the private sector the guy at the top can actually force things to get done.

    Anyway, bottom line, I think BO would still have creamed him.

  • Nick_Haynes

    But see my reply to NightTwister below. For everything bad we faced, and the way that McCain’s campaign seemed to shoot themselves in the foot on an almost daily basis, he pulled in 47%. Had we had another candidate, especially one like Romney, it might’ve been a different story. Who knows?

  • Nick_Haynes

    with Romney, I don’t think there were any questions as to his qualifications. He might not have been completely electrifying, but you knew when you listened to him that he knew what he was talking about. I never got that feeling from McCain, except on possibly GWOT. The vibe I and most people got from McCain was that he had been around a while, he knew a fair share but wasn’t the subject-matter expert on much outside of national security, and you got the feeling that he was going to take a nap or kidney-punch someone.

    McCain’s “experience” and “qualifications” were that he had been around it more than anyone save a few other people in the Senate. He didn’t strike you as the guy who knew it off the top of his head. Romney, for all his (possible) charismatic flaws, struck you as a guy who knew it from memory.

  • Martin_A_Knight

    No, I don’t think so.

    Romney was new to the Pro-Life side, relatively i.e. not fully with us on the social side until somewhere around 2004-2005. But on the fiscal and national security sides, he was exactly where he’s supposed to be.

    The problem was that it became fashionable to claim that Romney has changed his position on whatever issue was under discussion, whether it was true or not. If he blinked … ‘AHA! A flip-flop!’

    That’s Mitt’s story; defeated by the same label that defeated John Kerry.

  • birdmojo

    He certainly would have lost if he suspended his campaign to support the bailout, though.

  • Martin_A_Knight

    Sorry … this insistence that not only must one be pro-life, but pro-life since time immemorial with certificates showing his parents were also pro-life is not going to help us get back on our feet.

  • Martin_A_Knight

    Heh …

  • Nick_Haynes

    Romney shouldn’t have been anywhere near the Republican ticket.

    Then again, Ace was supporting a guy who was basically Linc Chafee with a respect for the sanctity of life. (not trying to be mean, Ace, but at least McCain got my vote…if it had been Huckabee, he could have ran with Reagan or Goldwater as his VP and I wouldn’t have voted for him)

  • Martin_A_Knight

    Well, I did write that it still would have been Obama’s race to lose.

    I just believe that Romney/Pace (not just Romney) would have made it close, like 50-49, and saved us a few seats.

    To put it another way; a Romney/Pace ticket would have had weight

  • SteveLA

    Mitt was having problems with his Positronic brain during the primary, forgetting previous potions every election cycle, it’s sense been fixed, but the emotion chip upgrade still has not been competed.

  • Martin_A_Knight

    And, I don’t mean to Romneybot it up here, but can you imagine a situation where Romney would’ve needed a candidate like Palin to excite the base?

    Romney might not have had as tough a time securing the support and enthusiasm of the base as McCain did – McCain pretty much failed – but his choice of VP would have been critically important given his less than ideal past on social issues.

    Which is why I suggested Peter Pace – pro-life, pro-marriage, military man, qualified, etc. The base would have swooned to the floor in ecstasy.

  • mbecker908

    McCain/Anybody, on that you’ll get no argument from me.

    The bottom line in all of this is I really wish somebody on our side had run a credible primary campaign and NOBODY did. The only reason McCain got the nomination is that early on when he ran out of money I think everybody wrote him off and concentrated on others. He sat on the sidelines with the only discussion of him being “pick the day he announces he’s done” (we had a diary like that here) and ignored him on the issues. He used the relative silence to fortify the squish base and zoom!

    Oh well.

    And, FWIW, I’d crawl across broken glass to vote for Peter Pace.

  • Jaded

    and I didn’t need to read any futher….I was ROTFLMAO!

    The rest of your response was good as well just that title made me burst out laughing!

  • Martin_A_Knight

    … that I’m saying that McCain should have picked Romney as his VP …

  • jeffreywturner

    I have warmed a bit to Romney. I doubt any Republican could have won this year though, principally due to the REAL issue of the year. I am speaking of course about the death of journalism. He would have been crucified by the media. He could talk all he wanted about Jeremiah Wright, but every major news network would be running specials on those crazy Mormon cults with the old men with multiple 14 & 15 year-old wives, and we would never hear a word about the man who said we deserved 9/11, etc. Mind you that I am not saying this is fair. I am just saying it is a reality.

    We need to stop worring about our candidates and get to the real job at hand; attacking and destroying the DNC’s propoganda wing, also known as the main stream media. The print media is already dying due to market forces, thank God. Now we need to focus on destroying ANY remaining credibility of the television media so that the populace sees them as entertainment rather than a source of information.

    With objective news reporting (which is impossible in the media as it exists today) or a population of voters who research information themselves rather than take the MSM’s word for it, the Democrats would have to nominate someone like Zell Miller to even stand a chance of winning. There is no way a conservative country should elect candidates as liberal as Obama.

    Back to Romney, I just have a hard time getting past his speeches in Massachussets, supporting Rove v. Wade as though it was Gospel. I know he was running in a liberal state, but I just don’t believe a person can compromise on such a basic principal. By this, I do not mean abortion, I mean the Roe decision itself, which along with the Griswold decision before it, declared that it was acceptable for the Courts to simply make things up as they saw fit and to through the Constitution out of the window.

    Perhaps if Romney joins the Federalist Society and adopts at least 4 children before the primary, he can make amends in the minds of true conservatives like me. I am joking of course, but he definately has some work to do.

  • Martin_A_Knight

    January 14, 2008
    I am not open to a bail out, but I am open to a workout. Washington should not be a benefactor, but it can and must be a partner.

    November 23, 2008
    BLITZER: Is there any contradiction what you said then and what you’re saying now?
    ROMNEY: Oh, it’s precisely the same thing. There’s no question. And I said at the same time there that the $2,000 per car cost disadvantage was back breaking and I said I do not support a bailout. That was in that January speech this year. I do not support a bailout. I support a workout.

    January 14, 2008
    If we’re going to be the world’s greatest economic power, we also have to invest in the future. It’s time for us to be bold. I will make a five-fold increase – from $4 billion to $20 billion – in our national investment in energy research, fuel technology, materials science, and automotive technology.

    November 18, 2008
    It is not wrong to ask for government help, but the automakers should come up with a win-win proposition. I believe the federal government should invest substantially more in basic research ? on new energy sources, fuel-economy technology, materials science and the like ? that will ultimately benefit the automotive industry, along with many others. I believe Washington should raise energy research spending to $20 billion a year, from the $4 billion that is spent today. The research could be done at universities, at research labs and even through public-private collaboration.

    I mean, I know he’s Romney so by definition there must be a flip-flop in there somewhere … but I’m looking at the Michigan speech transcript, his NYT Op-Ed and the transcript of his interview with Blitzer and I can’t find them.

  • Martin_A_Knight

    Mitt would have some trouble getting the base enthused about him, but not nearly as much as John McCain.

    This is even though, like McCain, he would probably need to use his VP pick to get us all fired up. Which is why I’m suggesting GEN. Pace.

    That would have worked nicely.

  • NightTwister

    Have you even seen the analysis of the media? It really doesn’t matter what your message is if no one hears it. Not that it’s an excuse. We still had to find a way to get our message out and didn’t.

    As for McCain’s campaign, I thought it was Fred that was putting people to sleep. I distinctly remember hearing someone here talk about how exciting McCain’s campaign was and that’s why he switched.

    In any case, I agree with birdmojo that whatever slim chance McCain ever had was lost by the games he played with the bailout and then supporting it. That was the last straw for too many people and even Palin couldn’t save him anymore.

  • Diogenes314

    …before MR dropped out of the race, the only strength the Huckster showed was in the solid red states. McCain won easily in all of the states that were going to vote for the real Dem eventually anyway. Romney-his strength was in the swing/battleground states. Unfortunatly he was triangulated out of the running, but there shouldn’t be any doubt that the two issues that killed McCain, the economy and being Bush III would never have worked against Mitt.

    And yes, I voted for him as the best candidate running in the areas of experience, temperment and electability. But then, I live in Kali. It’s not like what we vote for here matters except in the sense of one’s duty.

  • aceintx

    and by the way…Huckabee has been to the right on the bailout of McCain, Romney and the rest of the clowns who ran except maybe Fred.

    I wouldn’t vote for Huckabee for dog catcher this time around unless the choices are worse this time around than last but since Sarah will be running…I know whose play I’m backing!

    Oh..and Romney?…He could close the deal with hundreds of millions of his own money…he’s toast and I say good riddance!

  • aceintx

    nt

  • aceintx

    I said I voted for McCain with a modicum of enthusiasm at least because of Palin…I can’t say Romney, Pawlenty or any of the other clowns that were being talked about coul;d have enthused me at all and it would have been a dicey thing if I’d have even voted for McCain Romney, McCain Pawlenty and I can assure you of one thing…I’d have voted for Barr without a moments hesitation or a second thought as a protest if he’d have dared put Lieberman on the ticket like Little Miss Lindsey was discussing.

    Again..Romney’s ship has sailed…I think he’ll be the establishment candidate this time but I don’t see conservatives fighting amongst themselves this time and allowing the party bosses to stick us with another northeastern squish!

  • Nick_Haynes

    I couldn’t stand McCain’s campaign. The only reason I got excited, in the end, was Sarah Palin, but even that wore off after I saw how they used her.

    Yeah, birdmojo was correct in that regards. But, if that was the case, then McCain still had a decent chance beforehand. And, if McCain could pull that off in this environment, then I think that Reagan could have as well (which was the crux of your initial comment). And I think Romney could have won as well. He certainly would have ran his campaign smarter than McCain.

    Oh, well. Hopefully, like I said earlier, maybe the party will learn from picking “electable” and “moderate” candidates, and picking the guy who’s always “next in line”, and go for the candidate who is conservative and reflects our views.

  • aceintx

    my remarks are meant for the Romneybots who continue the canard that Mitt’s a conservative and the only Republicans that wouldn’t vote for him is because he’s Mormon…

    I’ve had my fill of that one…I could have been persuaded to go with Romney at one point but after his punk followers beat the anti Mormon bigotry slander into the ground I wouldn’t piss on him to put him out if he were on fire!

  • Nick_Haynes

    I’m looking at my McCain biography, and I don’t see where in it explains where he’s from in the northeast. I’m also not seeing where it explains that Huckabee’s been staunchly anti-tax or pro-personal property or pro-personal rights. Maybe that’s because they aren’t there. Like I’ve said before, Mike Huckabee is Lincoln Chafee with a respect for the sanctity of life.

    Mitt might not have been perfect. But I’m getting sick and tired of everyone here trying to rip on the same lines about him, when the only thing that they can point to with his “flip-flops” was that he was once pro-choice and now is pro-life. Very few people, even here, can articulate any other position against Romney other than that. We’re going to tell everyone that was pro-choice at one time and made that switch that there are certain positions in the party they’ll never be trusted with? Great way to bring converts in and grow the party.

  • aceintx

    on the face of this earth would be Al Gore…and now that I think of it…that would be a close competition…but I think Al would win by a nose!

  • DC71

    The problem with you guys this year wasn’t your candidate, it was his campaign. McCain could have pulled in independent voters that went for Obama if he ran as an independent. He didn’t though. He ran to his right for most of the general election, terrified he was going to lose you guys. The further right her got, the more he lost the center. I’m I pretty solid Dem, but I always respected McCain. He could have won over some people like me. But the McCain I saw in this election wasn’t the McCain I knew. His advisers were awful. They ran a generic republican campaign and didn’t utilize McCain’s specific differences. I liked the “Country First” concept, but he needed to highlight how much of a maverick he was and how he put country first. He was the epitome of change. He should have ran on this record on campaign finance reform, immigration, and all the things that drove you guys crazy. It would show that he’s do what he needed to to get things done…that he was Captain Bi-Partisan. He should have kept the Straight-talk Express thing going, giving reports unlimited access. His schtick from the 2000 primary may have worked this year. Instead, it appears like he spend way to much time running to shore up his base, while Obama ran a campaign toward the center. He was also always Mr Positive Politics.

    The Palin pick also scared away a lot of the center. Not because she was conservative, but that she never seemed up-to-speed on the issues. Media bias or not, if you have to convince people that your VP isn’t a moron, you are in for a world of hurt. Bobby Jindal would have been much better, if you could have convinced him to accept.

    You guys would have had an uphill battle this year, but McCain would have been your best bet if they had run a campaign for him, not a generic republican. It just never seemed to fit him.

  • aceintx

    and it was not because of the lady whose name was at the bottom of the ticket

    I missed the “not” there and reacted thinking you were saying Romney would have been a better VP pick. sorry about the misunderstanding and I am correctly rebuked for the mistake.

    As for Romney potentially being a better POTUS candidate than McCain…he could hardly have been worse so I agree with you at least to that extent…but truth be told…I think Mitt comes from the same beltway crowd that keeps preaching the foolish crap about running to the right during the primary and tacking left in the general election to appeal to independents and moderates. There is no way to prove this but my suspicion is that once he won the nomination by running right he would have reverted to the northeastern moderate/liberal Republican he had always been as far back as his Senate run in 1994 and ran essentially the same campaign McCain ran in an effort to avoid offending moderates..So I’m not sure how the rest of your analysis would play out because I’m skeptical about his supposed conversion to conservatism and I don’t think it’s at all clear that he would have run in the general as the candidate he purported to be in the Primaries.

  • aceintx

    First off…as to your comment about McCain…he is from the same ivy league mindset as the rest of the Rockefeller country clubbers so I don’t see your point about where he lives or where he chose to run for Congress since he was a military brat and had no more claim over AZ before he moved there to run for Congress than he did NY…so what’s your point?

    As for:

    I’m getting sick and tired of everyone here trying to rip on the same lines about him, when the only thing that they can point to with his “flip-flops” was that he was once pro-choice and now is pro-life.

    I can, and have point(ed) to far more than just his flip flop on abortion.

    Let’s start with his promise to have a nanny state bailout of Detroit complete with government training programs and money for the city and state to retrain workers chose winners and losers in the auto industry.

    Oh…and then there’s his gushing praise and bragging about the awesome health plan he passed in Taxachusetts which is now bankrupting the state…

    oh…and I remember his support of the Judicial usurpation of the rights of the people to self govern and supporting the gay marriage ruling there.

    I’ve said I wouldn’t vote for Huckabee for dog catcher again but the fact remains that Huckabee is farther to the right than your boy Mitt and John McCain when it comes to the $700 billion and counting bailout fiasco so what does that say for your guys?

  • JSobieski

    Romney should run for governor of Michigan and put some conservative policies in place.

    After proving himself, I would be more than happy to vote for him for President.

    However, short of that, only Huckabee could get me to support Romney.