Maybe it’s more like 17.5%. From the DNC TalkingPoints page…
In all, more than one out of every six workers — 17.5 percent — were unemployed or underemployed in October. The previous recorded high was 17.1 percent, in December 1982.
This includes the officially unemployed, who have looked for work in the last four weeks. It also includes discouraged workers, who have looked in the past year, as well as millions of part-time workers who want to be working full time.
Hmmm. The previous high was in December of 1982. Ronald Reagan’s fault! Oops, Reagan took office a month later. Who was President in December of ‘82?
UPDATE: I am awarding myself the Idiot of the Week award. The commenters who caught my inexcusable error are right. I looked for an appropriate graphic and couldn’t find one that correctly reflected my public stupidity. Please make this an open forum for appropriate “Idiot Crown” graphics.

I'm pretty sure Reagan was, becker. nt
janis Saturday, November 7th at 12:25PM EST (link)Reagan is a textbook case in how to improve the economy.
malbis Saturday, November 7th at 1:20PM EST (link)He came in following Carter getting us into the worst recession since the Great Depression, and actually turned things around by cutting taxes and doing everything right.
That 17.1% true unemployment figure high in 1982 proves it. We hit bottom in 1983 and then went up. So now, the true unemployment rate is higher–either 17.5% and guaranteed to get worse next month, or as high as 21.4% if you figure it honestly, and the Obama administration, Pelosi and Reid are doing everything wrong, duplicating what the Democrats did back in the ’30’s on a more massive scale.
It didn’t work then. It won’t work now. And things are going to get worse.
Yes, I know all that. I was just responding to
janis Saturday, November 7th at 3:05PM EST (link)becker’s question. And I agree–things are going to get worse. A whole lot worse.
malbis and janis
mom2oneson Saturday, November 7th at 3:49PM EST (link)What does getting worse mean?
Worse = full-scale Second Great Depression
malbis Saturday, November 7th at 6:52PM EST (link)By the most optimistic numbers, we are half-way to the real unemployment at the depths of the Great Depression. If you go back to the way unemployment used to be calculated, prior to the change made in 1993 under Bill Clinton so things would look better, unemployment this month is really 17.5%.
Unemployment at the depths of the Great Depression in 1932 was 24.6%–and that came three years after the Stock Market crash of ‘29. We are one year after the Crash last year, and already about twice as bad as things were back then. (Unemployment in 1930 was only 8.5% versus our 17.5% now). We have another real estate bubble burst coming early next year (commercial real estate) and the expiration of most of the largest chunk of toxic adjustable rate mortgages from the height in 2005.
The market, according to the majority of experts, isn’t going to sustain this level for much longer. It went up too fast and for too little reason–which is why most economists are looking for another crash equal to or greater than the first (”double-dip”). Speculation is that the Dow could fall down into the 5,000-6,000 range before it really stabilizes. Some have said possibly as low as 2,000.
After poor Christmas sales this season (see unemployment numbers), more retailers are going to close stores or go bankrupt in Jan-Feb. 2010. That, of course, means more unemployment, less buying, more store-closings–a vicious cycle.
China and Japan are not expected to keep buying our national debt much longer–Japan especially, because of domestic crunch there–and then everything hits the fan.
Once the dollar plummets low enough, China won’t support it because our value as a market won’t pay them to keep shipping us products. And the Arab states aren’t going to let oil continue to make them less and less per barrel in Euros or Gold as the dollar free-falls; once they switch to quoting prices in something else, oil prices will skyrocket here in the States. Think of the current economy with gasoline at $6.00 a gallon or more., and cheap Chinese goods in Wal-mart suddenly costing 60% to 150% more than they do now.
Worse = Much worse = Second Great Depression.
TY Malbis
mom2oneson Monday, November 9th at 4:15PM EST (link)I’ve never really understood what it meant as far as how it impacts everyone. Thank you for expalining. That is kind of scary about prices.
Getting worse means
chbroussard Saturday, November 7th at 7:15PM EST (link)that more and more people that voted for THE ONE are going to find out that all those promises he made are just not going to happen. He’s spending us into bankruptcy. There are going to be fewer and fewer jobs and there’s not going to be enough of that “Obama money” to pass out to all those expecting it. And they’re going to be PO’d.
Becker, you are excused, but this gives me a chance to make the point that the 2010 election will be like 1982's when
Mike gamecock DeVine Tuesday, November 10th at 8:48AM EST (link)the GOP lost massive seats due to the recession that Reagan inherited but that had not been solved yet.
Same in 2010 for ObamaDems.
The difference is that Reagan had put policies in place to encourage investment and job formation. Obama’s policies and the dems since 2007 are hostile to wealth creation of any kind.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Ronny
Xraxnd_Caracarn Saturday, November 7th at 12:52PM EST (link)took office in 81 voted for him in nov 80.
Yeah, it seems to be mistake on Becker's part
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 12:57PM EST (link)no harm here. BTW, becker Reagan was on the job for a year and 10+ when he got to December 1982.
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My bad.
mbecker908 Saturday, November 7th at 1:25PM EST (link)but Reagan fixed it.
And the same thing will happen
izoneguy Saturday, November 7th at 12:55PM EST (link)when the GOP kicks Obama out in 2012….
Unemployment will probably keep rising through the first year of the new president.
Only until business owners see the new administration unraveling the socialist policies from Obama will we see a REAL recovery…….
“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson
You're not an idiot Becker......
NeoKong Saturday, November 7th at 3:01PM EST (link)Looking back that far is like trying to remember what year Dorothy Hamill won a gold medal for ice skating.
A simple mistake.
The opinion of a wise whitino male.
1976, if memory serves...I'll check after hitting "post comment"
6eorge Jetson Saturday, November 7th at 7:08PM EST (link)nt
Whew...glad to see this geezer's memory is still intact
6eorge Jetson Saturday, November 7th at 7:11PM EST (link)Unfortunately, it still is the memory of a geezer.
And now....
NeoKong Saturday, November 7th at 7:16PM EST (link)after a message from our sponsors…
The opinion of a wise whitino male.
giggle mbecker :-)
mom2oneson Saturday, November 7th at 3:45PM EST (link)Where is Franz he would have caught that.
He was napping. He'd absolutely have caught it.
mbecker908 Saturday, November 7th at 7:26PM EST (link)And if he notices it, he’ll likely bite my fingers off.
Well you're just lucky
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 7:36PM EST (link)I think we need to sick Franz on some of the putz in DC.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
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Been there done that, Becker -nt
E Pluribus Unum Saturday, November 7th at 4:16PM EST (link)Carthago delenda est
Hey, those Error 404 Moments come with increasing frequency.
Achance Saturday, November 7th at 4:19PM EST (link)File Not Found is becoming the story of my life.
In Vino Veritas
And also mine
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 7:49PM EST (link)I can hardley get into any members diaries, I am immediately thrown out, with the message that “This page cannot be displayed” as I am looking at the diary in the background. I have no problems at all whatsoever on any other site I visit. And, I have no problem at all with getting into the front page diaries. What’s up?
I'm guessing that this is a IE 8 problem
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 7:52PM EST (link)because I use FF and seem to have that problem. I think IE 8 that I have here for Vista has gotten fixed a bit, but still seems to have problems.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
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For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
Huh? Richard Mullins
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 8:03PM EST (link)I have no clue at all what you just said. You seem to say that it is a, Internet Explorer 8 problem, and add, it also is a problem with Firefox. Is that what you are saying? I am not so sure that it is a search engine problem. I have tried both IE and FF, and, both seem to have the same conclusion.
I meant "File Not Found" in my brain; in my computer
Achance Monday, November 9th at 9:56AM EST (link)on this site it’s always either 500 errors or “Cannot Display the Page” There are two ads that completely hang up my IE8; the one with the growing noses and the one about the telephone tea party. If either of those are displayed, only the left side of the page displays; no Diaries, Red Hot, or comments. Just have to keep refreshing the page until another ad is displaying and then the whole page will load.
In Vino Veritas
Don't be so hard on yourself Becker
malbis Saturday, November 7th at 6:56PM EST (link)The important thing is that when Ronald Reagan inherited a massive recession from Jimmy Carter…he fixed it.
Obama, Pelosi and Reid are making things worse. They are repeating the same mistakes that Democrats made in the early 1930’s that created the Great Depression–and ensuring that what would have been a serious recession (like the one Reagan faced) deepens and lengthens into a Second Depression that might end up being worse than the first one.
Thanks all, but I give no quarter, I deserve none.
mbecker908 Saturday, November 7th at 7:24PM EST (link)And let me add two “yeps”…
One, Reagan fixed it.
Two, it’s gonna be a whole lot worse before it gets better.
'Becker, I really think you can now compete for the annual award. Your main competition for Idiot of the Year?
Mike gamecock DeVine Tuesday, November 10th at 8:49AM EST (link)DeVine Gamecock!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Can't believe anyone who lived through that time
realskinny Monday, November 9th at 9:25AM EST (link)could forget. The economy was far worse than today. Voting in the AM for Reagan brought on such a sense of euphoria I couldn’t get the silly grin off my face all day. When I came out of the voting booth I couldn’t help myself and shouted “I’ve waited 4 years to fire that SOB”. Every one in the church basement laughed.
Volker, head of the Fed, was a Democrat and didn’t care how bad the economy got with a Republican in the WH. He raised interest rates enough to choke inflation. Reagan took the price controls off oil and prices began to drop almost immediately. He went to the people and got the Democrats in the House to pass the tax cut. They phased it in so the effects weren’t felt until ‘83. The Dems scored big gains in ‘82 but by ‘84 everyone in the country but the media knew who was responsible for the boom..
Carter walked into a perfect economic storm,`
Achance Monday, November 9th at 10:50AM EST (link)one that was already pretty well developed when he took office in early ‘77. He gets plenty of blame for handling the economy and foreign affairs ineptly, but he didn’t start the problem; that’s all on President Nixon and a Democrat Congress’ heads - with a lot of help from our Soviet friends.
The US stood idly by when Ghadaffi, then a Soviet client, nationalized the Libyan oil fields, in ‘70 I think. The other Soviet client, Iraq followed suit, followed by the more Westward leaning Saudi Arabia and the emirates. At that point OPEC became something much more than social club or trade association. It seems lost to memory that these now rich and powerful Arab states and leaders had done little or nothing to develop the oil; they had just accepted their baksheesh and the Western oil companies fronted all the skill and money to develope the provinces, the biggie being AARAMCO, a joint venture of, principally BP and Exxon. With the nationalization, the World price of oil began to rise inexorably. The US was already fighting inflation because of the “guns and butter” policy in financing Vietnam. Increases in commodity prices led by oil aggravated the inflation to the point where Nixon instituted wage and price controls in ‘71 or ‘72. I’m working from memory so some of this may be a little off but the bright colors and broad strokes are right.
The Arab States felt real power in the ‘73 War iwth Israel but with, and the Arabs thought because of, US intervention with weapons for Israel, the Arabs ultimately were defeated. The Arabs did no go gently. Since they now controlled all the oil from the Middle East, they put an embargo on oil exports to The West. The West’s economic paradigm was based on oil in the $5-8/bbl. range and even reaching that price paradigm had caused considerable inflation as pre-nationalization ME oil had been under $2/bbl. The TransAlaska Pipeline, at the time the largest and most expensive construction project in history, was based on economic viability with oil at $7.50/bbl., then very expensive oil when the project was approved in ‘71. With the Arab Oil Embargo of ‘74, the price of oil, if available at all, simply skyrocketed, ultimately reaching the mid - $30s/bbl. and the economy tanked as it did. About the only thing good that can be said for Carter’s tenure is that he didn’t much interfere with constrution of the TAPS though his Greenie friends certainly did and the price of the TAPS skyrocketed as well. By the time the environmentalists were through what had been projected to be about a billion dollar project had become an $8 billion dollar project, but by ‘80, it was producing almost 25% of America’s oil. At the same time, BP, then an arm of the British Governent as well as Norway were bringing on the elephant field in the North Sea. By ‘81, the dramatic increases in oil production combined with more resolute economic and foreign policy from both President Reagan and PM Thatcher first stabliized the price of oil and allowed the Western economies to catch up with that price and establish a new price paradigm.
The fields in Alaska and the North Sea went into production with the highest uplift rates of any major fields in the World. Uplift rate is production as a percentage of proven reserves. Throwing all that oil on the market combined with rational economic policies in both the US and GB broke the OPEC monopoly and the price of oil crashed in ‘86, flirting with $10/bbl. and even less. A sound dollar, conservative tax policy, and a low, stable oil price all contributed to starting a boom that lasted from the mid-eighties until last September with only the minor and mostly media induced early ’90s recession that helped elect WJC who is given all the credit for things he had little to do with.
So, Carter had both bad policies and bad luck and even worse luck as the result of his own bad policies. Reagan had both good policies and good luck as did GHWB until the “recession.” WJC would have had bad policies which would have led to bad luck but he overplayed his hand in ‘92-93 and lost control of the Congress causing him to have to accommodate Republican policies. The economy was robust enough to weather the bursting of the tech bubble and GWB and a Repubican Congress kept the economy rollicking despite the Democrats’ best efforts to talk the economy down. The Dem/Media propaganda war and weariness with real wars brought a Democrat Congress in ‘06 and something, I think something really bad, brought first skyrocketing oil prices in ‘07-’08 and an economic crisis and a communist takeover in late ‘08.
In Vino Veritas
Carter was inept and foolish
aesthete Monday, November 9th at 11:09AM EST (link)esp. on foreign policy. I do give him credit for appointing Volcker at the end of his term to end stagflation, but besides that, he was just awful.
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
ok I thought Volcker was bad
mom2oneson Monday, November 9th at 11:16AM EST (link)and has a big responsibility for the mess we are in now? I’m just repeated what I heard here I really have no idea. I thought for sure he was bad though?
Achance that is so interesting thanks for the history.
mom2, you might enjoy a book called "The Prize."
Achance Monday, November 9th at 11:26AM EST (link)It is a Pulizer Prize winner that most consider the magisterial history of the oil industry. Can’t remember the author’s name. It is a little left-leaning but mostly objective and very readable.
In Vino Veritas
Daniel Yergin wrote "The Prize".
Vladimir Monday, November 9th at 11:31AM EST (link)http://www.amazon.com/Prize-Epic-Quest-Money-Power/dp/1439110123/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257784258&sr=8-1
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer
But go thru moelane.com if you're going to buy a book at Amazon. nt
Vladimir Monday, November 9th at 11:32AM EST (link)There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Couldn't remember and I'm lazy this early in the am.
Achance Monday, November 9th at 11:49AM EST (link)It’s on the bookshelf behind me and well thumbed. Any time there’s a wage dispute that goes to the labor board or to arbitration you have to come up with an explanation of Alaska and oil patch economics that somebody who knows nothing about Alaska and oil patch economics can understand, so my copy of The Prize has seen a lot of use.
The first time I had to try to explain the Alaska economy was in ‘90 in interest arbitration with our largest union. The union wanted at least the CPI since ‘87 because they’d been without a contract since June ‘86. Because of the price crash in ‘86 CPI had been pretty much flat but there had been a sharp uptick in ‘89. I had to try to lay out to an arbitrator from MN how the price was in the toilet and we couldn’t control production thus we had flat or declining revenue without regard to the CPI. The irony of it all was, because of Exxon Valdez our revenue was down due to production disruptions and tariff issues but, typically, Exxon had thrown around $100 bills where $10 bills would have done in getting labor and materials for the cleanup and all the money they spent eased the recession and caused the CPI to go up.
In Vino Veritas
TY Achance and Vladimir
mom2oneson Monday, November 9th at 4:06PM EST (link)I need to start reading. I’ve let my son monopolize my library checkout and interlibrary loan requests limit for too long. I’m going to interlibrary loan request it. Thanks again!
Volcker was bad in a number
realskinny Monday, November 9th at 11:50AM EST (link)of ways but he did take the proper action against the inflation of the time. The fly in this is that the unwarranted expansion of the money supply by the Fed in latter’70s was primary reason for the inflation in the first place. Volcker also bailed out his banker buddies on the taxpayers without statutory authority and some other quibbles.
Inflation and economic downturns have been measurably worse since the creation of the Fed than before. Greenspan and Bernanke both have some responsibility for the current problems in that they made easy money available for the RE bubble. ALL of the rest of the house of cards were based on the poorly secured sub-prime mortgages. These would never have existed without the Democrat’s Community Re-Investment Act. None of the many players who screwed up would have had anything to screw up with absent Sub-Prime Mortgages.
Thanks
aesthete Monday, November 9th at 12:20PM EST (link)I would have noted that Volcker was pretty crappy in quite a few ways (he’s heading up Obama’s Economic Recovery team, if that says anything), but he was right on stagflation.
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
Generally in agreement with you
realskinny Monday, November 9th at 11:19AM EST (link)on this Achance. The oil shocks of the early Seventies were caused by dollar inflation which was in turn the result of overspending and borrowing by Johnson and Nixon. I depart company on only one point. Inflation is a decline in the value of money. It cannot be caused by a shortage (real or artificial) of a commodity. More money spent on one or more commodities will simply mean less money spent on other goods or services. Any time there is a general increase in prices–a symptom of inflation–it is caused by a reduction in the value of the unit of exchange. A failure to understand this basic definition is why we see such stupidities as price controls.
Disagree, realskinny, dollar inflation did not cause the oil shocks,
Achance Monday, November 9th at 11:37AM EST (link)but rather vice versa. As I set out, there was already inflation in the US economy because of overspending and borrowing for both Vietnam and The Great Society. The declining value of the dollar was a factor in the movement from the $2/bbl. paradigm towards the $8/bbl. paradigm on which the TAPS was predicated. After nationalization there was not a free market in a vital commodity, oil. You had a cartel willfully increasing the price of that vital commidity because they could and creating a shortage because they could. Then, as you describe, more and more money going to oil caused less and less to be available for other things. Likewise, those who could did what they could to drive up their earnings so they could afford more things. Combine that with some horrendous policy decision and you got both a recession and inflation at the same time, the stagflation phenomenon and the “misery index.”
In Vino Veritas
I don't think we are really in disagreement
realskinny Monday, November 9th at 12:14PM EST (link)As you say, there was already inflation in the US dollar. It’s just that I see the declining value of their share of the revenues triggering the nationalizations. After all they were stealing the assets of the oil companies. In a world where the Western nations had confidence and moral courage military action would have been taken to secure their citizens property. Once the nationalizations were successful, greed took its course. As you say, horrendous policy decisions were made. Bad fiscal policy was pretty much the norm ‘65–’70.