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Goodbye Angry Right… So Long Redstate.

By: minncon (Diary)  |  September 16th, 2011 at 10:27 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I know this will please the Perry Zombies with whom I’ve traded barbs recently, but even so, here goes.  I’ll just consider it my parting gift to them.

This weekend I’ll be asking the administrators to kill my account here on Redstate, because I don’t enjoy the tone here any longer.  It’s simply no longer possible to express one’s opinion without getting flamed and watching the comment tree grow with uncalled-for caustic comments.

It’s ironic that Redstate has gone this way, when its original motives can be seen in the phraseposted under each “Add Comment” window: “Be respectful, or be banned.”

This admonition to be “respectful” on Redstate doesn’t seem to carry any weight with the snarky “righters” anymore.   Case in point: my own most recent diary, in which I merely posited a few earnest questions about Rick Perry and would have welcomed discussion that might have changed my mind.  Instead of discussion, I got dissed right away from three Redstaters (in all fairness, I lowered myself to their level and threw some verbal punches as well – I just couldn’t take it any longer.)

The Top Snark awards go to:

mbecker908: for “[if what you've said was right] you’d have a point to go with the one under your hair” and “your conclusions are a combination of wrong and stupid.”

andy_in_texas: for “[your posting is] slapdash drivel=nobody takes you seriously,” and “[what you've said is] abject bull spatter;” “… your village is waiting for you.”

a_cat: for “[you're very late to the party] and worse, you’re not original” and “if you’d just bothered to read Red State regularly, then you would have noticed that all of the crap you just threw has been sliding off the walls around here for months.”

And maybe even Bill_S (one of the administrators?) who finally flexed his control muscle — not at the snarkers, but at me — by offering to boot me off the site with this: “Well, I could show you the door if you’re not happy here.”

—-

When I discovered Redstate, it was exciting because I thought this was going to be a forum where conservatives could have honest, respectful discussions.   Lately – except for Erik and a few moderators – I find that some people have made it more like a Daily Kos of the right.

Too bad.  ”Be respectful, or be banned” was a nice goal, Erik… I hope someday you can get control back over what goes on here, and prove that conservatives are not self-immolating.

Sayonara.  Redstate’s out of my bookmarks bar.

COMMENTS

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  • bk

    Seriously though, there does seem to be some Perry Derangement Syndrome going on around here lately and in a few other spots. Perhaps you feel differently, but I’ve hung around here a while and I think we’ve seen the same thing before. When Palin Derangement Syndrome got out of hand (not so much within Redstate, but in general), there were some Redstaters who were not huge Palin fans who came to her defense. I think we’re seeing the same thing now with Perry.

    There was a valid criticism or two that could be make of Perry re the HPV thing. But instead of making the points and moving on, it turned into pouring heaping piles of half-truths and even complete falsehoods on and on and on and on and on. The backlash was predictable.

    • APA Guy

      You make the point…you move on and make another. Rick Perry justifiably pointed out Romney’s abysmal record on health care, but he hasn’t spent weeks crowing about it and making up nonsense. He moved on to the more pressing needs of the country – most of which involve getting this country’s economy out of the toilet.

      Regarding the GBCW nature of this diary, I must point out that this diarist whines about treatment at the hands of RedStaters, yet admits to being just as passionate during that same recent debate.

      I hate to point out the obvious, but reclaiming the republic IS a passionate matter and the stealing of our money and freedoms WILL cause anger among the electorate. Didn’t the diarist see the 2010 midterm election cycle? That rapid turnaround was not the result of a subtle conservative movement. It began with and was sustained by outrage over the idea that this country was being taxed into oblivion – and that government spending was out of control.

      In a way, these times in America remind me of the scene in Braveheart when Robert the Bruce tells William Wallace that fighting against tough odds looked like rage, not courage…to which Wallace advises him that “it’s well beyond rage” at that point.

      This political war will not be pretty…we should all acknowledge that and recognize that thin skin will not be sufficient when debating policies and candidates leading up to 2012 because we’re past the point of polite.

    • warkarma

      Remember the Fred-Heads? This board was in a complete frenzy over Fred and Good Lord help you if you supported anyone else. Despite the official RedState pledge that no candidate is endorsed until after the convention, most of the board picks a favorite loooong before that ever happens.

      RedState is best enjoyed from a distance. Certain personalities have dominated this board for a long time and will continue to do so, despite any purpoted TOS. Run afoul of vocal opinion and you’ll be castigated in the blink of an eye. The issues that divide the GOP into factions run deep, and normally boil the blood.

      I’m a vocal Mitt supporter, always have been. Not every state’s like Texas. I think Rick Perry is unelectable in crucial swing states, and I want a candidate that can actually win the election so I don’t have to move to Canada for 4 years if Obama gets re-elected =).

      • Flagstaff

        Didn’t think so.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    or their offspring, whose presence in this country is still illegitimate.

    Stay and fight, dude!

    • snowshooze

      The Federal Government handed him a can of worms by not enforcing the border.
      1/3 darn near of Texas is Hispanic.
      They have been running back and forth the border almost effortlessly, and for a long time.
      They are embedded.
      So, what would a reasonable man do?
      He cannot even deport… he has to hand them over to ICE where their catch and release program just plops them back on his streets anyway..
      So even cleanup efforts are wasted money and effort.

      What would you do about it?

      • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

        The only thing wrong with it is that every border state didn’t do it.

        Don’t confuse the Feds falling down the job on the border with Perry offering goodies to those who manage to evade deportation.

        • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

          The last POTUS from Texas damaged the GOP brand because he did not know when to say when.

          I want to know where Perry draws the line, if he does draw it.

        • snowshooze

          So you have 2nd generation illegals, even new ones… by State law and in reality…Residents.
          That is the can of worms. Feds throw ‘em right back.
          I don’t think they can get welfare,food stamps or unemployment.
          They can’t even call a cop if they need one.
          They work. They buy stuff. They pay taxes.
          Yep, they are criminals. Some real hardened ones, some just escaping Mexico for a life worth living.
          I agree. SB 1070 is a great step.
          But look at the size of the mess. Realistically, you have millions. They own homes.
          Perry says… we are stuck with this lemon.
          He is trying to make lemon-aid.
          Watch out, you say something sily, Acat may lay down the recipe.
          I don’t much like it either, but if the Federal Government created this mess, how can you possibly hold it against Perry for trying to make the best of it???

          • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

            In state tuition for the children of illegals is has the same effect as any welfare magnet. If I were Arizona I’d be turning cartwheels Texas was incentiving my illegal alien familes to pack up and leave.

            Inqiuring conservatives should want to know where he draws the line with growing the benefits cornucopia.

            Because the line always moges, doesn’t it?

          • porkandcheese

            … is Jus Solis. As long as anyone can become a citizen by being born here, they will keep flooding our hospitals. Once they’re here, you have to deal with them. You can’t deport them or detain them as a state government. So, you incentivize becoming productive members of society versus drains on the system.

          • gekster

            He has already said he is just playing a game.
            That’s all this is to him, nothing serious.
            I, along with others are fed up with him,
            and are observing the Hinz Rule with him.
            Replying to him does no good, he is just trolling around.
            Hence, the recipi’s

          • snowshooze

            After wrestling with a pig in the mud for long enough, one comes to realize…the pig likes it.

          • gekster

            See the meatloaf covered in bacon recipi.
            I’m not sure, but I think ther is a spare rib one to.

          • snowshooze

            Acat at least has found a very creative and amusing way to respond to idiocy. Recipe them!
            I live in fear. I did the enchilada’s last night, and will do the meat loaf soon. Thanks Acat!!!

    • californiagold

      I’ve raised concerns about Perry’s immigration record as well. But the reality is, one of three people will be elected president in 2012…Obama, Romney, or Perry. We already know where Obama stands on the issue, and we already know that Romney is pandering to anyone that will listen to his baloney. That leaves Perry.

      And the reality is, republicans haven’t had a good record on immigration. In fact, Reagan and GH Bush supported amnesty…Perry is just following in their path on this issue. Unfortunately, as I’ve explained in other posts, amnesty and lax enforcement have been a great benefit to the democrats and a hinderance to republicans.

      So, yea, Perry isn’t the ideal candidate on immigration, but Obama and Romney are no better.

      • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

        I want Perry to move toward the right, not the other way around.

        But props for conceding here it’s a problem area with this candidate.

        • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

          So if you let someone new in, you have to keep someone else out.

          • acat

            Coffee-and-Doughnut Ice Cream

            First, purchase an ice cream maker. Cuisinart makes a nice 1.5 quart model that retails for around $75, but you can find it for less on Amazon.

            Make sure the “cold bowl” is in the freezer! (nothing worse than having a bowl full of ice cream mix and no way to make ice cream out of it!)

            Purchase 3 Dunkin’ Doughnuts chocolate frosted chocolate cake doughnuts.

            Mix the following in a bowl.
            2 cups half & half
            2 cup heavy cream
            1 cup strong coffee
            2/3 cup sugar
            2 tsp vanilla extract
            1 pinch salt

            Break the doughnuts into pieces and place them in the “cold bowl”, then add the liquid and turn on the ice cream maker.

            Wait for it.

            Keep waiting.

            Enjoy!

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            …and trying to reinvigorate a tradition which you resumed here?

            Though recipes like this will send me to the poor house. Especially if I have to buy an ice cream maker each time. :)

          • acat

            Or, if you ask around the older parts of your family, you may be able to find a vintage hand-cranked unit. Since those tend to be larger, you’ll need to double the recipe.

            Mew

          • porkandcheese

            Bought it as wedding gift for friends in Turkey, because their ice cream is different. She’s a Brit, and he spent many years in the States and loves our food.

            Here’s a great recipe for Fat Elvis ice cream. It’s ambitious, but it befits the King.

            http://spectacularlydelicious.com/2011/04/11/recipe-fat-elvis-ice-cream/

          • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

            for insulin.

          • rightwingmom52

            electric ice cream freezers for real homemade ice cream. We have a gallon freezer that I bought on ebay. They last for years as long as you care for them properly, i.e., rinse the salt off after each use. Tip from my mom is after you wash the container, dry it and line the bottom with a paper towel between each use to keep it from rusting.

        • snowshooze

          As Governor of the great State of Texas with a scorched earth policy to illegal immigrants with a 30% Hispanic population?
          He would never have made it this far.
          Texas is picking up a chunk of the tuition.
          Nobody is getting knocked out.
          You ever go to College?
          Ever passed an entrance examination?
          do you know Colleges are FOR PROFIT?
          Got more Students?, add a wing. Bring ‘em.

          • gekster

            Texas does not pay for thier collage.
            They have to pay thier own way, just at instate (resident) rates.
            One of the requirements of the Dream Act is that they get no preferential treatment or funding.

          • snowshooze

            I am confused. Where does the price schedule come from then, and how is it set.
            I assumed Texas helped take care of their own, in their own institutions.

          • gekster

            One requirement is having to live in the state for 3 years.
            a resident, you could say.
            They have to have graduated High School.
            And, they have to pass the entrance exam.
            Pluss, they have to apply for citizenship, and go through the annal exam that is.
            And no afirmative action, or any special treatment, except for a scholorship or something, and I am guessing on that one.
            The Texas lagislature proposed the bill, and then passed, without any no votes, and it is Perrys’ fault for signing the bill.
            Acording to homer, and quite a few others, this makes him weak on immigration.
            I call it a sensible solution to a big problem no ne wants to deal with.
            And it DOES NOT grant amnesty to the parents or any other sibling.

            If I missed something, I am sure acat will come up with it.
            He’s good at stuff like that. ;)

          • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

            I’m with you 100%. I get so tired of people misrepresenting the Texas arrangement. If they meet the requirements you mentioned, they get to pay the same tuition that other in-state students pay. That’s it. How is that a giveaway? As Perry said, better to have new citizens educated and able to make a positive contribution to society.

          • snowshooze

            Not entrance, not nationality…
            Alaska has In-State, residence rates.
            We want our kids to school here and stay here, not go off to the world and never return like before when we didn’t have our feet under us.
            We now have some pretty good institutions, and although we cannot offer advanced degree work in every field, we are doing pretty good… well as good as money can buy.
            But our kids get the rate. Visitors pay another.

          • gekster

            The collage charges a base rate, the cheapest it can to run the university.
            It is x.
            Collages get funding from the state so x is as little as possible to the students.
            If you come from out of state, you have not paid the state or local taxes,
            to have helped to reduce x, so you pay x+.
            Since the person in question has to have been in the state for at least three full years, one can assume the they have paid some semblance of state and local taxes.
            Instate tuition.
            I hope that helps.

          • acat

            It’s not just x+. For Oregon and Washington State, it’s three times x, for most of the midwest it’s 2 times x. Someone else dug up Texas, it’s in one of these threads… I believe it’s double x but won’t bet my ice cream cone on it.

            Mew

          • snowshooze

            No quibble.

          • rightwingmom52

            tuition is that “illegal immigrants” get a break over legal residents of other states who might want to attend college in TX. Personally, I think that’s rather weak, because I assume every U.S. citizen has the choice to pay in-state tuition by attending where live.

            I think this approach in Texas is pretty reasonable, however, I’d like to know that these students have to actually follow through on their path to citizenship, i.e., not. just get by with making application. I also wonder if they are able to qualify for financial aid or government assistance. I might have more of a problem with that, depending on how it works.

          • gekster

            as far as I know, and I have not seen otherwise, is no breaks or financial help.
            They have to pay thier own way.
            The way I look at it, it is trying to deal with a problem no one else, (certainly not the feds), want to deal with.
            I think it is a better way to handle a complex problem then others who say just ship them all back.

          • Flagstaff

            is the fact that we’re talking about it before the border is under control.

            Perry was forced to deal with it as a border state governor, much as Romney was forced to deal with health care as Governor of Massachusetts with a Democrat legislature intent on doing something about health costs. If Perry were Governor of Kansas, let’s say, it wouldn’t even be in the discussion.

            I agree that we want to eliminate illegal immigration magnets, but this isn’t really a big magnet. The parents come here for other reasons, not to put their kids in Texas high schools so they can get in-state tuition in Texas state colleges. And if they were to come here for that reason, they’d probably be the kind of immigrants we’d like to have here legally.

          • rightwingmom52

            Perry and govs of other border states should do what they can to help resolve these issues in addition to controlling the border which is an undertaking they cannot do without federal assistance (manpower and money).

            Seems to me that the Texas Dream Act is a reasonable, practical solution that would be acceptable to conservatives if properly explained and would appeal to Latino voters. We have got to do a better job convincing our own side that it’s neither practical nor economical to just round up illegal immigrants and ship them out of the country on a bus.

          • harpsichord

            But not when I compare him w/alternatives.

            Vis a vis Obama, it doesn’t hurt, And that’s OK with me. MY candidate still hasn’t announced, but Perry is NOT a NON starter.

      • acat

        And I don’t think Perry’s likely to repeat Reagan’s mistakes with the “amnesty”… ya gotta close the border first!

        Mew

        • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

          We know he wants to educate their kids, not incentivize them to leave.

          • snowshooze

            What is he to do?
            What would you do?
            You don’t get to throw them out. You can’t shoot them.
            Border is open.
            Nobody has your back.
            1/3 of your people are from Mexico.
            Now, get real.

          • acat

            One reason this cat wants a chief executive with a long jacket…

            Perry has ordered the Rangers to set up a special naval unit (brown water, not blue, for those who know the difference) to do enforcement along the Rio Grande. He’s ordered the Rangers to interdict around Lake Falcon.

            This shows he’s serious about stopping illegal border crossings.

            Perry has encouraged the kids of illegals to get an education and become citizens. This means he wants to keep the best and brightest here and productive. Given the number of foreign nationals (under H1B) I work with every single day, this doesn’t strike me as unusual or problematic. We’re a nation of immigrants, what’s wrong with adding to our cultural diversity?

            Oh, it’s about how they got here. Then pay special attention to what Perry has talked about. Even the stuff he gets slammed on – the stuff where he was on stage with Fox – sounds like it needs identification, i.e. a “guest worker” program.

            Some – Tom Tancredo for example – want to deport ‘em all, but cleverly never count the cost to doing so. Not to our communities, nor to the conservative movement, nor the raw dollars it would take to beef up the ICE, foreclose on the farms and ranches that line the border, and build the wall. All Tancredo is doing is sloganeering for his own gain.

            Mew

    • gregorysstewart

      Of course you are right. If you reward bad behavior, you get more, worse behavior.

      That said, shaking a fist at the moon, while we lose the presidency is just not something I look forward to. A larger portion of the Hispanic vote is an absolute requirement of the next election. Politics starts with purity, but it is not satisfied without expediency. Sad yes, but true.

      Perry is correct that a wall is not practical or affordable, and in any case it is not the best way to protect the border. His Texas Dream act is simply an act of Expedience. He was in New York City yesterday. He had dinner at a Mexican restaurant. He is estimating that he can afford the loss in base vote, but that he needs to make in roads with Hispanics in the General Election.

      So far he is the only GOP candidate doing that and counter-intuitively, that makes him a more likely GOP candidate.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Nobody’s holding your fingers to the keyboard and making you type.

    God save us all from the passive-aggressive.

  • gekster

    It was full of half truths, and was more a slam, not a discussion of, Perry.
    When posters tried to tell you that what you were saying was allready discussed, and where to look for the info, it didn’t matter to you, you were just on a slammin binge.
    You ignored the info that was provided you, the more stuborn you became that you were right, they were wrong, because you were out to convince everyone that
    ‘Perry Bad, Romney Good’.
    Bill S said in a nice tone, If you don’t like it here, there’s the door.
    Well I guess you felt the need to throw one more pile of crap at the wall before you left.
    Well, so be it.

    • onemovoter

      Many people here are nice and even try to share information by writing member diaries chocked full of info.

      Problem is some people continue to ignore the black and white text sitting right in front of them to read and comprehend. Several, not just minncon have this problem, even after repeated mentions.

      Many of us get tired after awhile of repeating ourselves, and do get ‘snarky’ with people that act more like liberals who refuse to see the reality of things. I’ve been on liberal blog boards and post things that quote a liberal news site about an issue and they totally blow up on me. I’d constantly get thrown off their sites just for doing so. At least here many of those leaning left can post without getting thrown out immediately… as far as I know.

      For me I actually don’t mind debating liberal leaning folks who do bring up all sorts of stuff that I might not think of. It challenges me to research and make my arguments even stronger.

    • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

      Gekster, I think I have given you more 5′s than any other poster on Red State. You have to be a carpenter, because you are so good at hitting the nail on the head.

  • californiagold

    n/t

  • Bill S

    So the comment you’re cry babying about is when you said “If you

  • acat

    Expecting mad props for doing a half-{donkey}ed rewrite of a standard litany of anti-{candidate} bile and venom on a site dedicated to spreading truth is like expecting adulation and babes for playing “chopsticks” at an R.E.O. concert.

    Mew

    • snowshooze

      I’m gonna sit and listen.

    • easyb

      for RAWK!

      Cranking it just loud enough to not wake the kids….

  • JSobieski

    I must say that swan songs are usually pathetic. If people leave because something happens in their life and they need to say goodbye, by all means go out with a swan song. However, if you are leaving the site BECAUSE of what is happening on the site and not in spite of the site, have the decency to leave without saying anything. Try and go out with some class. Too late for this diarist, but something for others to consider.

    The heroic characters in a movie…. they just leave without saying a word. Go out the way of a classic western, not “The Wives of “

    • AceInTX

      good bye and good riddance

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    it’s holding their noses way too early on Perry, and not getting angry.

    Go Packers!

    • westcoastpatriette

      I share your concerns about Perry and illegals. I have only been coming to RS for 3 or 4 months and I have learned a lot about how other people across the country feel about the issue.

      But, more importantly, I have realized part of the breakdown in terms of others not sharing my passion regarding the answers for solving this problem has to do with where I am from. Unless you live in a border state, I don’t think you can fully appreciate the depth of the problem. I take it you live in Cali, too, right?

      Honestly, most of the people here at RS do not understand the interstate war that took place between the border states when Arizona passed S.B.1070. I think I feel exactly as you do about this issue and think Arizona has lead the way out for states and continues to lead the way out for states. I am still listening to Perry to try to give him the benefit of the doubt as I really like him on so many other issues. But I battle intense anger toward him because I feel the states (mine included) who did not support Arizona betrayed all of us who despise sympathy toward illegals.

      Arizona is winning and many states are following suit and enacting similar kinds of laws. This issue is also being fought out in the courts in terms of what states have the power to do in light of the federal statutes. So, you are not alone. Most conservatives share our views. So many people already see Perry as the best candidate that I think they are willing to give him more slack than maybe you or I would.

      I also think Perry will have to change his views as a candidate for prez as he will be forced to address this issue federally, so I don;t think he has formulated his policies fully, yet.

      • gekster

        He more or less said that it is not right for Texas.

        • gekster

          from:
          http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Perry-Arizona-immigration-law-not-right-for-Texas-1715731.php

          excerpt:

          • westcoastpatriette

            You don’t understand how Arizona was attacked and smeared and even sued by Obama for trying to protect their citizens from the many negative consequences of not enforcing immigration laws. Perry’s comment that 1070 is not right for Texas is the excuse that those who want to protect illegals use. Pretty soon, Perry will have to fully come clean on all of his positions and will not be able to hide if he really is so committed to illegals that he has no intention of enforcing immigration laws.

            States do have power to do things to fight the problem. But, so far, I have mainly heard excuses from Perry rather than using state powers along the lines of what Arizona has done and is doing.

            So, we shall see soon if Perry really is committed to confronting this problem or not.

          • gekster

            I was with AZ all the way, and got heart broken by all the others jumping on the trash AZ bandwagon just because they tried to do at a state level what the feds won’t do at the national level.
            And the way I read Texas, they want the feds to do thier jobs.
            To quote Perry, “enforce the laws on the books”.
            I do understand what you are saying, but the way I see it, is each state is unique in it’s own way, and should do whats right for itself, not what is right for others.
            And if you are concerned about Perry as President,
            he Ddid say, “enforce the laws that are on the books”.
            To me that means that states would not have to pass immigration laws to defend themselves.
            Just my opinion. I will give him the benifit of the doubt until he says different.
            But I will go with what he has said.

          • westcoastpatriette

            .

          • onemovoter

            Having to change his views in what he’s expressed so far. Too many people who are concerned with the immigration issue along the Mexican border confuse State and Federal roles and laws.

            Perry has said he’d like boots on the ground coupled with air assets like drones that track people and relay that info to the boots. He said you can set this up along the border very quickly in areas that would be nearly impossible to build a fence on.

            Perry did say fencing would work for cities at the border. He said this was done to great effect in other states such as Cali. Texas border with Mexico is largely part of the Rio Grande. I just don’t see building a fence there as practical.

            Perry keeps saying once you secure the border, then a discussion can be had on other issues related to immigration. He’s right, because it would eventually do away with the need for AZ and Texas to have some of their policies that deal with illegals.

            So you see Perry on the Federal level would actually be good on the issue of the border and immigration. That is completely different from the state level and what their limited options are.

          • westcoastpatriette

            addressing the border does not come close to addressing what to do with the twelve to twenty million that are here already. And I don’t want to hear excuses like “There’s no way we can deport all those people…we have to let them stay.” And that is what Perry has, so far, failed to address.

          • westcoastpatriette

            That’s another excuse I don’t like–”Can’t even discuss what to do with those who are here already until we seal the border.” I say bull. States have a duty to protect their citizens from all of the ill effects of this problem and we have all suffered long enough waiting for the authorities with the power to protect us to do something.

          • acat

            It’s not a matter of “Can’t discuss what to do with those who are here already…”, it’s a matter of we should not… because you’re very right, we don’t all think the same way.

            This cat thinks that if we elect someone who can cut red tape (Obamacare), reduce uncertainty (Obamacare, EPA, etc.) and get business investment to start ramping up, adding jobs, the issue of what to do with the 20 million already here becomes easier to address.

            My thought is that some – who are here to commit crimes – belong in prison, some – who are here to work some of the year then return home – belong on guest worker programs, and some – who want to be here for the rest of their days – belong on visas. It is not something a sloganeer like Tancredo can address on a bumper sticker, but it needs serious discussion.

            Every single move I’ve seen from Perry I understand and can agree with.

            Getting back to your initial point, SB1070 achieved only one thing – it standardized the police procedures statewide. Many municipalities were already sending everyone past ICE for a look-see. A few weren’t, and a few weren’t sending everybody, just .. some. That’s it.

            Further, I understand that California has a similar law on the books. Are you, perhaps, working to get that law enforced? Just a question, not being hostile.

            Mew

          • westcoastpatriette

            an option counties have to work with ICE after arrests have been made. And many–most I think, mine included, are already doing that.

            I understand what you are saying. The best weapon in the arsenal would be to enact federal mandatory E-Verify that includes empowering states to legislate the same so that there are no hindrances to enforcement. Penalties would include fines, prison time and revoking business licenses. That alone would solve most of the problem as without work they won’t be nearly as tempted to come or stay. If Perry is against that, there is no excuse.

            Agree that Perry has to be careful what he says and when he says it. But there are risks for waiting too long, too.

          • acat

            Take it up another couple thousand feet and ponder what happens inside Mexico if we cut off the southern flow of money…

            Mew

          • westcoastpatriette

            I’m having a pretty good Saturday as it is.

          • acat

            (cheshire grin)

          • westcoastpatriette

            ..

          • Flagstaff

            Saved me a lot of trouble and did it better, anyway.

            woof

  • OccamsRazor

    I always like to leave a smile for those who don’t follow the rules. :)

  • westcoastpatriette

    but it just forces me to hone my skills, listen to others more closely, (because I have been wrong before) and I even got acat to stop calling illegals undocumented. Huh, acat?

    • gekster

      Intelligent people call it live and learn.
      Not so inteligent call it take my ball and go home.
      Well said in a short sentance.

  • dajeeps

    I’ve been flamed, torched, and God knows what else here. But the point is that I got to say what I felt needed to be said, and it gives me practice for when the debate really matters. What more can I ask than someone takes the time to tell me I’m full of, um, whatever? It’s a tough world out there and it gets even tougher when you sweat the small stuff. So lighten up and try to have some fun.

  • lastgopinillinois

    How so many people here have been so quick to jump into a particular candidate’s “boat” at this point, and many seem to have an undying loyalty to a particular one this early.
    The primary is still months away. I have read everything I can find on all the candidates, listened to all their speeches, and I am still undecided.
    The good news is, most folks on this site have been great at laying out the pro’s and con’s of the “electable” candidates, and that, to me, is invaluable food for thought.
    But in the end, I am screwed anyway. Illinois WILL go to captain zero no matter what I do. All I can do is watch the illinois polls before the primary and pick the Republican candidate that is highest in the polls, pray, and keep my fingers crossed.

    • gekster

      Pick the one you think is the most conservative.
      Don’t pick the one you think will win.
      How do you think we got McLoser.

      • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

        general election is when you hold your nose and vote for the one with an “R” beside his name.

        • mikefrey

          Followed by step 2 – vote ideology in Primary; and finally step 3 – the “R”.

    • jwebb

      heh.

      • acat

        “It’s the one who counts the votes who decides the election” applies.

        Best thing I’ve seen recently that reaffirms this was the kerfluffle in Wisconsin’s Supreme Court race where one of the conservative districts under-reported “by mistake” .. signaling to the libs just how many votes they needed to be a close win…

        Mew

  • nod90

    I’m shocked at how toxic the atmosphere here has become. Unprovoked personal attacks, such as calling somebody ‘stupid’ or ‘idiot’ will get you quickly banned from most internet forums. There has been a great deal of this on Redstate lately, and there are far worse examples than minncon’s diary.

    I’m definitely left with the impression that the pro-Perry trolls have the support of the moderators and the management. They seem to get away with a great deal, while Bachmann and Palin supporters are kicked out for minor infractions. This is a new development. In the past the moderation has been generally fair.

    I know it is awkward to ban people who have been around a while. I don’t know if the moderators here have the option of a temporary suspension. For someone who obviously isn’t a DailyKos troll, that would be a much better solution than a permanent ban.

    Of course, if the management has taken a decision to turn Redstate into Rickstate, then nothing can be done about it. They own the site, and they will run it any way they please. I hope that isn’t the case, and that Redstate will remain a place where the pluses and minues of all the candidates can be repectfully debated until the primaries are over.

    • gekster

      You are like comming onto an accident scene, after about a half hour after the accident, and saying you know all about the accident.
      Read the site for awhile, then talk smack.

    • bk

      Not that I have inside info, but AFAIK the only people regularly kicked out because they are kooks are the Ronulans. (Well, them and the spammers.) The only other person I can recall got booted lately was a Romney guy who spent 99% of the time doing anti-Perry trolling and rarely mentioned Romney.

      Pro-Perry trolls? Most of the pro-Perry posts haven’t been about how wonderful he is, but rather pointing out certain holes in tired old leftist talking points that are being repeated over and over and over…. Most of the folks who seem to be on Perry’s side here say they have concerns over this or that, but they like a lot of what they see.

    • papabear

      The mods around here seem to have a pretty good handle on things. I haven’t been warned. Even after (respectfully) suggesting someone was either a troll or a (D) plant. I am pretty sure that unprovoked pyromaniacs and trolls get modded and/or booted.

      Don’t assume that seeing something insulting/provocative that it will stand – it might be modded a little later. If it stands, perhaps mods feel that the “RS line” allows more free speech and debate than you are comfortable with.

      Are you prepared for partisan politics?

      I can guarantee that Obama will make the general election UGLY!!

  • gawken

    If you let them drive you off..they win…
    Pressure and tension mounts as we get deeper into the primary process. Once we pick our candidate, it will all be water under the bridge ( Ron Paul supporters not included..LOL)
    Seriously..just ignore those who seem to upset you…post your thoughts..and respond to those whom you feel are willing to engage in seious, considerate discussion…treat the others like you would anoymous deep breathjing phone calls…ignore them…that’s the ONE thing they can’t stand

    • texanjane

      mbecker908 and aaron_gardner double- teamed me, calling me a leftist, a “dumbass” (repeatedly, via video), a moron, a single-issue nitwit, and a fool for a comment I posted about Perry. As MNconservative said, “The perception one gives when one immediately resorts to abuse is that one has no valid argument.”

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        If you’re gonna broadcast how hurt your feelings are, it’s worthwhile to provide a link to the original thread. That way folks can see the conversation and make up their own mind.

        And certainly in this post minncon certainly had no valid argument and got his panties in a wad when the clap-trap he posted got deconstructed.

        With respect to your specific complaint, I don’t recall the thread. Obviously it wasn’t striking.

        • gekster

          http://www.redstate.com/minncon/2011/09/13/perry-a-bush-in-sheeps-clothing/

          After re-reading it, and his comments, I don’t think we lost anything.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            thread – the one she was whining about – that I was looking for.

            However, you are absolutely right about minncon. And that diary was pathetic.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            You can read it here…

            It’s an interesting read. Seems texasjane is upset about Perry’s immigration policy in Texas with respect to the bill that was passed by the legislature about illegal children of illegals and college.

            Her comment was basically a one liner refuting the idea that Perry is a TeaParty guy because of that bill. Neil took a quick whack at her, Aaron posted a cute video. She never bothered to even attempt to enlarge on or defend her comment, just got her panties in a wad over Aaron’s video.

            Oh well. As I suspected, not much there. Or, as Rick Perry would say texasjane, “All hat, no cattle.”

            For any that are interested, the thread provides some interesting commentary because Aaron and I were being nice to each other. Doesn’t happen all that often, but it was fun while it lasted.

  • Vegas_Rick

    nt

  • Scope

    I just read that other diary over there < like on the front page by Meghan McCain, and then I'm here reading this diary and wondering if there is some connection. Seems that those kinda like young people all are thinking all us old worn out mean RedStaters are just really H8ERS. How dare we not listen to the same things over and over again about that zombie Perry. Oh, that's right we are the zombies. Like it's totally awesome that the good haired Romney is lowering himself to run for the presidency to rule over all us dirt eating, uneducated, unwashed little fools. How big of him. Even Meghan said that only her dad is qualified, but she'll settle for Romney as the second best choice. Lovely.

    And hey, I'm getting kinda jealous of mbecker. He seems to be the most popular guy around these parts. What's up with that mbecker? If all it takes is saying something like "if you had a point to go along with the one under your hair" is going to send some to the goodbye cruel world point, or to the meds bottle, I'll gladly use that trick on some of the Paulbots that also refuse to listen to reason.

    Oh and Bill S was working on that control muscle. that he used with you. You are lucky that he was only offering to help you out of your whining misery. If you couldn’t help yourself, he was kind enough to make the offer, without just slamming the door on you.

    I’m sure acat will be along at some point to post a recipe for sour lemon drops. It’s really needed around these parts lately.

    If you were truly willing to be persuaded to think differently about Perry, you would have been asking the questions, and participating in the many debates that have gone on here about every single hair on Perry’s head. Most here aren’t just willing to stick their heads in the sand, and refuse to even open their eyes to what may be serious issues with all the candidates. By the time of your post, everything you brought up was already discussed ad nauseum. You should have taken acat’s warning and looked into what had already been covered, over and over. That seemed to be where you were coming from.

    • Scope

      Bill’s picture is the 4th in this series.

      http://www.binscorner.com/pages/g/greatpicsofgreatbodybuilders.html

    • pttx333

      at RS longer and feel more comfy here that you will tell everyone exactly how you feel! ;-)

    • dajeeps

      There are plenty of ways to make someone look like a moron without calling them one. Just going out and saying it doesn’t help the case, even if the facts support what’s being said.

      On the other hand, one shouldn’t jump into a pit of alligators and expect to not get bit. Thin skin and political debates just don’t go well together; and if people can’t stand the heat, they should get out of the kitchen.

    • papabear

      Lemon Drop Martini Recipe

      Ingredients:

      1 1/2 ounces vodka (Grey Goose or Michelle Obama vodka)
      1/2 ounce orange liqueur (Triple Sec)
      1 tsp fine sugar (optional for true sourpusses)
      3/4 ounce lemon juice
      Ice cubes
      fine sugar for dipping
      Twisted peel of lemon

      * Use drink sugar – it dissolves easily. Syrup can be substituted to avoid shaking.

      Preparation:

      Mix the vodka, Triple Sec, sugar, and lemon juice in an 50% ice filled shaker. Shake until sugar is dissolved or syrup is blended.

      Wet rim of martini glass with lemon and dip rim in drink sugar. Pour drink into the sugar rimmed glass and garnish with a twist of lemon.

      Makes 1 serving.

      Warning: Use of Michelle brand Vodka turns RINOs into Jellyfish (aka “Reasonable Republicans”).

  • reaganbuckley

    nt

  • clowngirl

    it wasn’t because somebody insulted me or made me feel stupid for disagreeing with them and not knowing as much about the subject as they did — it was because I posted a view that wasn’t particularly conservative and explained why I thought the way I did about it and rather than insulting me a number of people posted information I hadn’t been aware of and respectfully explained where they thought I was wrong.

    My prior conclusion was based on my limited experience and actually it wasn’t a view I’d really brought up for discussion with any conservatives before — and doing so here was educational and I appreciated people taking the time to show me where I was mistaken.

    It all comes down to what you guys want to do with RedState. Do you want to attract an increasingly broad readership and “reach out to the lost” so to speak — providing an opportunity for independents or even Democrats to engage in discussions that will educate them and maybe change their minds?

    It would seem to me that we’re starting to reach a tipping point with regard to the debt and government spending — a lot of people who probably haven’t thought about it much before are now getting concerned and probably a lot of people who hadn’t considered it before might start feeling open to conservatism.. How are they going to progress from vaguely curious to full blown conservatives?

    Is it likely that they will bring their questions and or mistaken views onto a site where they perceive anyone who disagrees or posts a view that maybe reveals they don’t know as much about the topic as others will be verbally squashed? I doubt it.

    I didn’t read the exchange with Minnconn and I don’t want to but even if he or she was misinformed, rude, etc. why not be nice anyway? I have trouble seeing the advantage of being mean. Not only do you run off Minnconn (which evidently y’all don’t see as a loss) but also — potentially— others who may be thinking of joining RedState.

    Anyway, that’s my 2 cents and it’s already more than long enough.

    • porkandcheese

      then I don’t want to be nice or visit a site that does. I’d be a Democrat.

      • clowngirl

        You can be courteous and still expose untruths and misinformation.

        To call someone a liar is something of a different matter — do you know for a fact that they are knowingly making a false statement? can you prove that?

        On other sites I’ve often seen the claim of liar misused for reasons that had nothing to do with exposing the truth. It is possible to absolutely prove a false claim to be false without being disrespectful or speculating on the motives of the person who made — or repeated — said claim.,

        Dispelling disinformation is a great service — if it is done respectfully then maybe more people will be encouraged to speak up with their unwittingly bogus reasons for resisting a certain conservative position or candidate — rather than keeping their reasons for resistance quiet and quietly maintaining their opposition.

        As to tolerating insults. There is a proverb ” A fool shows his anger at once, but a wise man overlooks an insult. ”

        I have not observed any instances where insulting an insulting person makes them less insulting.

        This diary is about one person’s experience of feeling insulted at RedState. By your comment, am I to assume you have no tolerance for the insults the writer claims to have been subjected to?

        • porkandcheese

          It seems people were respectful, and minnconn still attacked them. As for your proverb, that’s assuming there is some shame to be covered up. I see nothing shameful about conservatism or Perry’s record. They have both been successful. You can tell when someone is making misleading statements by how they phrase it to begin with. It is obvious that minnconn set out to deceive by his halftruths. That is why instead of defending his positions or elaborating on them, he went off on the person challenging him. As to your last point, blogs are freedom of assembly. If he doesn’t like redstate, he can leave. He chose to write a diary that attacked the motive and character of the regulars, hoping to take others with him.

        • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

          where my character and knowledge of the subject has been impugned, then the gloves come off. I have posted on both conservative and liberal sites over the years, and have never been insulted on any conservative site in response to a well-reasoned posting–however–on one unnamed liberal site, I posted a well thought out, and well supported argument, to which the first response was to “step away from the bong.” While some users here will snark at someone like minncon who refuses to listen to reason, I have never seen a snark that was not well deserved.

    • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

      Well said, clowngirl.

      You went on to say, “I have trouble seeing the advantage of being mean. Not only do you run off Minnconn (which evidently y

      • JSobieski

        I think there are four reasons why people visit RedState and those reasons are sometimes contradictory. Just as a servent cannot truely serve two masters and just as the Federal Reserve cannot truly serve two missions, maybe RS needs to purposely go more one way or another.

        (1) Read/learn. I think this is what draws most of us in at first. I believe it is accurate to say that far more people read redstate than will write here. I also believe that most casual visitors probably ignore the comments.

        (2) Mobilize for action. CW embodies this category, and frankly it is more valuable than all of the other categories.

        (3) Analysis/Argument. One thing that a lot of miss about college is the great dorm room discussions and arguments. I confess that I fall predominantly in this category.

        (4) Socializing/Being a Part of Group. A lot of people in this category may not be particularly good writers, thinkers, or debaters, but that doesn’t mean that someone like CW can’t transform them into category (2). However, any time you have an “in” group, by definition other people will be “out” of the group. I think it is in this category that much of the problems for category (2) are found.

        What is RedState’s PRIMARY mission? With a couple of exceptions, I don’t think activism is it If it is, CW makes a lot of sense and things really should change.

        • westcoastpatriette

          falls more closely along the lines of your #1&3 with the primary emphasis on strengthening the Republican party. There is no mention of mobilizing for action but nothing that would prohibit it either. With respect to #4, that just develops naturally among the frequent posters and, to me, is an added perk.

          • westcoastpatriette

            I have to correct myself as I just reread the rules again and it does say one of the primary goals of the site is to help elect conservative Repubs. So, I take back what I said about mobilizing for action.

          • easyb

            What “kowalski” means at RedState? I’ve seen it around, and have been scratching my head trying to figure it out.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Named after Alex Kowalski, a RS poster who frequently posts like that.

          • westcoastpatriette

            Evidently, an old-timer here at RS named kowalski would frequently think of something else to say so kowalski became code for I’m adding something else now.

          • easyb

            I knew it was something like that, but didn’t spot the pattern.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            if we are not going to ACTUALLY figure out HOW to do it, what in the hell are we spending our time doing?

            Here’s a reference to a great post by jsob on that subject:

            http://www.redstate.com/coldwarrior/2010/11/08/promoted-from-the-replies-is-the-mission-of-rs-to-be-some-kind-of-academic-debate-society/

            And here’s a link to another discussion about what, exactly, Redstate professes to accomplish:

            http://www.redstate.com/coldwarrior/2011/03/10/redstates-purposes-and-how-best-to-carry-them-out/

            Typing all day? Preaching to the choir all day?

            Or getting more “center-right” voters to actually get to the polls?

            What are YOU going to do?

            Oh, and are you going to drive “center-right” newbies away by nastiness?

            For Liberty,

            ColdWarrior

          • westcoastpatriette

            it does also say to promote conservative ideas and to educate and encourage activists. Many people, myself included, come here to learn more about conservative ideas and positions and that is an aspect of activism. If you don’t understand conservatism fully, you won’t even know how to vote properly.

            Not everyone is raised to be civic minded or get deeply involved in politics and so there is a time for learning and teaching others or helping others develop conservative strategies to combat specific issues. Just sayin.

          • JSobieski

            It is precisely in those discussions that the arguments tend to spiral out of control in bad ways. Sometimes arguments spin out of control in good ways. I recall once participating in an argument with BirdMojo and someone else on the nature and purpose of laws. The argument went on forever, but it was actually good stuff and there was zero name calling, etc.

            Sometimes people purport to teach what they cannot explain particularly well. To me conservatism must embody an intellectual humility, because it is among other things a purposeful rejection of utopianism. Conservatives acknowledge that human systems have flaws because human beings have flaws. Which takes us back to how to optimize a tool such as RS

          • westcoastpatriette

            pretty intense debates here at times that, for the most part, have been very constructive and informative.

          • JSobieski

            is that some people aren’t particularly good at making a proposition, citing supporting evidence, rationale, etc. This often leads to the snarkiness which is often understandable.

            Its kind of like asking the question: What is the appropriate response to someone like Obama who just keeps repeating that you need to pass the bill? Or that a particular argument is contrary to our values?

            Shorthand is understandable. Shorthand debate is often understandable. However, shorthand debate also inevitably leads to snarkiness because the debate isn’t really between those two people–it is between the people and their past adversaries, which is resulting in the shorthand.

            I once read that for meaningful debate to occur, both sides should be forced to explain the other side’s position sufficiently well that the person arguing the other side says “yes, you’ve got it.” Only after both sides get to that point does the actual argument happen. I think it is a good model. For example, I would love to hear Obama actually address his critics in specific ways, rather than just dimissing them or characterizing them as being outside the mainstream.

          • westcoastpatriette

            He is not used to being challenged to justify his positions. He can’t even speak to us off the cuff without a teleprompter to keep him on track. He does not have the intellectual humility that you spoke of earlier and that prevents him from considering the possibility that he may be wrong about anything.

          • JSobieski

            Obama went most of his adult life without really being challenged. I only use him as an example because we all clearly see what he does, which is repeat, raise voice, etc. but no real interaction.

          • westcoastpatriette

            Please don’t take offense but you need to edit your third paragraph at the bottom of your comment page. In the middle of the paragraph, the word should be “accept” not “except.”

            I’m sure you were just in a hurry.

          • JSobieski

            I can’t even blame that one on the cell phone

          • westcoastpatriette

            Thank you for the civil discussion. I think I am ready to retire for the evening, so, until we meet again at RS, may you have a lovely night.

          • rightwingmom52

            not all of us at redstate are as proficient at debate or google or research, etc. as others. Sometimes it takes me quite a while to put a good comment together with links, cites, etc., and even then, I don’t always get the point across that I’m trying to make. This is partly because my memory is not quite what it used to be (tends to happen as one gets older), sometimes because my emotions will get the best of me, and others times just because, but I keep trying.

            There are also times that it is appropriate to take the discussion away from redstate which I’ve seen happen several times.

            As for Obama, it’s difficult to discuss anything rationally with someone who’s quite irrational.

        • clowngirl

          I agree with you that people come to RedState for the four reasons you stated: 1) to read/learn 2) mobilize folks for action 3) analyze and discuss matters 4) socialize and bond with others who are in sympathy with the same goals — where I don’t agree is that I don’t see these purposes as separate, conflicting or mutually exclusive,

          Can’t a RSer read, learn, socialize, analyze and discuss things and get inspired to get mobilized all in the same visit??

          I’ve always thought the purpose of RedState was to build a strong conservative community: passionate about conservative principles and fired up enough to stay actively involved.

          Discussion on a site like this can be a catalyst for more significant efforts. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that it’s not that common for people go from not being involved politically at all — to suddenly devoting massive amounts of time to unpaid grunt work — we saw that with the tea parties at a crisis moment when Obamacare was being debated — but it’s not often likely to happen.

          A site like RedState has great potential to feed the passion required for ongoing activism. Participating in RedState has the potential to be very easy to do because there’s no opportunity cost. You don’t have to schedule a visit to a website like you do a local Republican Party meeting. Then productive discussion can easily increase a person’s motivation level to the point that they are willing to start putting time aside for boots-on-the-ground type efforts — and, the more people who happily participate — the more potential for networking — people in the same area discovering each other and starting to work together locally.

          I’m sure it already serves this purpose. But I think there’s the potential to do a lot better — if every person who posts at RedState is treated like the potentially valuable research that they are and an effort is made to create an environment where people feel comfortable asking questions, being wrong, learning to expand their thinking, etc.

          Maybe my arts background is coming through a bit -and that sounds overly touchy feely. But I do think it’s important to respect the fact that most people — most conservatives especially — have lives, jobs, hobbies, friends, family, and numerous other responsibilities and/or gratifying ways to spend their time — if they take the time to put together their thoughts and try to contribute on some level at RedState — it’s important to respect that time and effort. And also to consider the context — a misinformed comment may be misguided in itself — but it may also represent an effort on the part of a potential activist to put a toe in the water with the thought of maybe diving in later….

          • aesthete

            Political commentary and political activism are what economists would call complementary goods — two things that just go well together, and whose consumption is directly related. For example, a left shoe and a right shoe are nearly perfect complements: unless you’re disabled, you wouldn’t want one without the other, right? It’s not particularly practical to have a year-round blog dedicated solely to activism; given that demand for activism tends to manifest cyclically (i.e., when it gets closer to election time), it is difficult to retain regular readers by focusing solely on activism. This creates the problem of not having an already assembled cadre of activists, a lack of networking among site regulars, and makes it more difficult to acquaint newcomers and members alike with talking points and memes that will make them more effective activists.

            Ideally, an activist site would operate cyclically: it would concentrate primarily on political discussion, education and polemic on the off-season, i.e., whenever national elections are not being held. This rhythm would be punctuated occassionally by some sort of real activism, i.e., something like CW’s posts, a petition, special elections, etc. The site would then focus on more activist posts when it gets closer to election time: pointing out how and where to help, where to donate, and (one would hope) having people from specific states crop up to educate about the local situation and to recruit fellow locals. Thus, polemic/discussion need not be divergent at all: in fact, some of the best political organizations in modern operated in such a manner — the Nazis and Communists, to use some of the most famous negative examples.

  • earlgrey

    That has been the MO of the left and Acorn as I learned yesterday. Conservatives should try not to let that happen. If one is truly a conservative than there should be some areas of agreement with others on this site. I didn’t read the particular column, but it hardly seems worth it to remove oneself from the dialogue over a few comments.

    Red state has a broad range of commenters with differing styles and even the tough ones are helpful to get us all to sharpen our game.

  • gt80

    …stands out as a very immature poster. If redstate followed it’s own “be respectul, or be banned” code he would no longer be here.

    • audax

      nt

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      do research, understand the difference between fact and opinion and then put together a cogent argument, then you’ve earned the right to an opinion. Until then, not so much. At least don’t expect to have your opinion treated with anything but scorn.

      • gt80

        “I find people making complete fools of themselves
        mbecker908 Sunday, September 11th at 1:09AM EDT (link)
        humorous. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

        Snowy happens to live in Alaska. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

        And her approval is in the tank maybe because she ran out on her job. And all of her signature programs are in or headed to the crapper. And the guy she supported against Murk is lucky he

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          The comment to which you refer came from The Tragedy…

          It was part of a thread and you posted this as part of a comment related to Palin…

          …how come there are no Redstate front pagers commenting on the numerous policy positions that she puts out or her record as governor?

          To which poster snowshooze responded

          Palin’s record isn’t anything she would want to run on.
          snowshooze Saturday, September 10th at 5:57PM EDT (link)
          But those who are adamant in their support of her are unaware of the reality of the situation.
          She is just great at flash and fire and PR..and so many are taking the bait that it is funny.
          All I can say is do your own homework. Don

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            In a follow up comment just below and in the same thread, I responded in detail with reference to Palin’s “record”.

            I note that you couldn’t be bothered to respond at all, let alone substantively. Nor could anyone else. The closest anyone came to a “defense” was usadebate with this piece of asininity…

            Can’t wait to see her defend that stuff in a real debate
            usdebateboard Saturday, September 10th at 7:26PM EDT (link)
            Is it her fault that al the MSM cares about is Levi

      • gt80

        You really do a great job at proving the author’s point, “Sonny”.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          First of all, you pull things completely out of context, provide no links and draw an unsubstantiated conclusion.

          You must be in graduate school. Or fourth grade. But I repeat myself.

          You’ve not earned the right to anything.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          Now that you’ve been outed as a Troll, what’s your next act?

          • gt80

            Rather not waste my time. Thank you.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Showing up is a proven waste of your time.

  • steve010

    with minncon to add their name to the list. Don’t let the door hit you in the posterior on the way out.

    • steve010

      and becker, BillS, acat and some of the others have ripped me a new one at times, but that has just helped my contemplation process. I also know not to say anything that I like about a certain Congressman from Texas.

      • earlgrey

        on this site and my first instinct was to quit the site. In fact I did a few times, but I am still here.

        I think it takes a certain amount of personal strength to come out of a harsh dialogue and return to the site and civil discourse with even those that blasted you before.

        If we are to take on the leftists we need to be stronger people. There is strength to be gained in confrontation. Just my opinion.

      • acat

        Did it piss me off? Absolutely.

        Did it make me think? Again, absolutely.

        I don’t think I would have learned any other way, and I appreciate the effort others put into ripping on me .. or, as I now think of it, sharpening me.

        As for minncon, I stand by what he quoted me as saying above. Every single point that he brought up had already been addressed, repeatedly.. and I know minncon had been here a while – he was not a newbie. .

        Mew

    • gt80

      You just illustrated the point of his article….

      • gekster

        minncon wrote a diary where he says he wanted to discuss Perry, and then just posted a hit piece with alot of leftist talking points.
        Posters respectfully tried to inform him with factual information and opinions that were contrary to what he wrote.
        He stubernly kept insisting that he was right, and that the rest were more ill informed than he was, as he knew all the answers and we were just blinded by Perry worship.
        Neumerous posts and actual articles were presented to him, and instead of engaging in actal dialog, descended in discrediting posters who didn’t see the light as he saw it.

        It became clear that he did not want a discussion, but wanted everyone to slam Perry with him.
        Having failed to convince everyone that ‘Romney good, Perry bad” he decided to take his ball and go home.

        This fact has been explained a couple of times here.

        And as acat said upthread:
        Expecting mad props for doing a half-{donkey}ed rewrite of a standard litany of anti-{candidate} bile and venom on a site dedicated to spreading truth is like expecting adulation and babes for playing

        • clowngirl

          or at least as insulting as anyone that responded to him.. But his diary was so lacking in substance, so poorly written and blatantly disrespectful, that it’s hard to imagine anyone really taking it seriously.

          I would agree with what you say about how most of the comments were substantial and appropriate — but why bother insulting the guy at all? Once his points have been refuted and he’s making himself look worse and worse – why not just ignore him?

          As Bill S. pointed out — this is a public forum — and insults to Minncon — who clearly offered provocation — may discourage others who are privately reading and perhaps considering becoming a member and who are interested in respectful discussion.

          Even though I agree that Minncon was the first to be insulting and disrespectful, it just seems like responding to him in kind tarnishes the image of the site and makes it potentially less attractive to others who might otherwise contribute respectfully.

          A lot of folks just don’t like to see fighting…

          • clearasday

            Clowngirl, you raise a lot of good points. Minnconn was overly combative in this case, but frankly, there are too many regulars at Redstate who seem to mistake bullying for debate.

            They’re so obsessed with skin thickness and wadded panties and tuning their malfunctioning “genuine conservative detectors,” it’s almost laughable. Sorry if I offend, but I’m told that most people here appreciate passionate debate and are past being polite. Pansies need not apply. So hail, thick-skinned people of the world! Prove yourselves worthy of the Restate flashmobbers and you will be given the key to the Club of the All Knowing. Yea, let it be said.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            He, or she, was overly stupid. S/he has been here long enough to be able to figure out that all of the points raised had been beaten to death over the last month or so. Yet s/he drags out the same old petrified arguments and throws them up against the wall. And then is overcome with an attack of righteous indignation when it’s pointed out that he’s walking on thin ice because all the so-called points s/he made had been rebutted a long time ago.

            Look, I don’t know if Perry is “the guy”. He’s done some dumb stuff with the EO, but it appears he learned his lesson on that one and fessed up that he was wrong. I have small issues with his immigration thingy and I’m a hardliner on that issue. I need to know some more about his tax policy. I could care less if he was Democrat or a Satanist 22 years ago. I care about his record and his philosophy NOW.

            What I do know about Perry is that he’s the “high profile guy” right now. I’m very interested to see how he handles it. I liked Michelle Bachmann – with a bunch of reservations – but after the Gardasil flap I wouldn’t hire her to clean my house let alone run the country. Let’s see how Perry handles himself over the next couple of months and we’ll have a much better idea about him.

          • earlgrey

            Perry flames out. I am not trying to make a dig only that it seems we have very few choices right now. As we come down to fewer and fewer choices I suspect some of us might be prone to be less objective in judging the candidates because there are so few choices left.

            I am not trying to make a dig at anyone, it just seems that as things come down to the wire I can see myself personally being less rational and more invested in certain candidate because of the options on the table.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            that to happen. And to give you an honest answer, I don’t know. At this point it would appear that there are likely two options if that happens. Option One is that Perry flames out and Palin doesn’t get in. I would guess that Romney wins the primary season in a walk. I don’t see any other candidate, especially Bachmann, getting traction. Option Two, Palin jumps in. I don’t see her getting traction, even against Romney, but it could happen. End product, Romney would likely win the general, Palin would lose it big. With a Romney win, we hold the House and the Senate stays Dem. With Palin, Obama gets 55% plus, we lose the House and the Senate adds to the D margin.

            Those are nothing more than wild ass guesses and I certainly wouldn’t work hard to defend them.

            The other point is that in the “real world”, it’ll be pretty much over by the time I get to actually vote since I live in AZ. Last time I voted for Romney because he was the only candidate available who’s name wasn’t McCain.

          • Michael M

            But you also lost me due to the nastiness when I dared suggest Rick Perry was not the guy we need in this election. I know I haven’t been around long enough to “earn the right to insult people,” but I’ve been around long enough to work on Capitol hill, a mutual fund, a tech firm, and, no, a Ph.D. program. So, on balance, I think I could have contributed something. But, with so many people ready to attack me and tell me not to let the door hit my ass on the way out well, I’m going to take that door.

            So you lose 2 people. Big deal. You don’t really want them anyway. But, if everything you guys say about this being the moment to save the country or abandon it to socialism actually means something, can you afford to lose anyone who will fight for constitutional freedoms?

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I made a quick run through your posting record and couldn’t find anything. Please provide a link. Thank you.

          • Michael M

            Personally, I would like everyone who agrees
            steve010 Sunday, September 18th at 12:52PM EDT (link)

            with minncon to add their name to the list. Don

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            could we possibly find “…the nastiness when I dared suggest Rick Perry was not the guy we need in this election.”

            What you posted is the first comment in this particular thread and there is nothing here from you other than the comment where I requested a link.

            Again, please provide a link where anyone dumped “nastiness” on you for saying Perry isn’t the guy.

          • gekster

            I just ran through your posting history, and no one has been snarcky or nasty with you.
            Could you show where someone has been rude, offensive, or nasty to you.
            I am confused by your claim.

          • Michael Dugas

            THAT is what turned you off? You aren’t even thin skinned……you are without any skin at all…skinnless! I mean that was a loosely directed remark with the teeth of a Carp. It doesn’t even make it to the level of nastiness.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            You’ve had two days to respond to the question about the offense you found.

            Three other people are asking the same questions I did.

            Here’s the deal, Michael M, I’ll be right out front and note that it would appear that you are not only a troll, but you’re also most likely a liar with respect to your “background”.

            There’s no “there” in your posting history threads. You’ve managed to manufacture outrage over nothing while noting that we should miss you because of your exalted background and experience and we’ll be poorer for all you could have contributed.

            Not.

            You won’t be missed, any more than the even more pathetic minncon, and please, feel free to let the door smack you around freely on the way out.

          • Scope

            that because you feel abused by some comments on RedState that you will take your ball and go home, and not vote? That’s rediculous.

        • APA Guy

          That is, wrapping “dissent” around dishonest attacks on the conservative GOP front runner. Isn’t it interesting that these Perry dissenters only seem to direct their whiny diatribes toward Perry and not any of the other GOP candidates?

          Sorry, but I call BS on people who target Perry entirely on this site as well as people who exclusively push Romney with MSM talking points doing their reinforcing. The old tricks of the left are as obvious as the nose on your face and won’t work this time a la McCain 2008.

  • lineholder

    *.*

    • Scope

      and then tell me if you are so surprised. I don’t know what the heck snowshooze was thinking.. He sometimes recos a diary, and then comes out strong against what it says. ColdWarrior is a shock, in light of the fact that the RedState community has been so supportive of him, yet he recos a diary about how awful RedState is. Ha, who would of thunk it. The rest, no surprise. All the whiners get their say. Remember when it took a whole bunch of reco’s to get to the top? I do.

      • gekster

        and not for the content, per se.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        I’d guess he recco’d more for the commentary on “tone” than anything else.

        As far as the reco list is concerned, I’m sure Neil changed the algorithm and it’s a combo of recos & comments v time. But I’m totally guessing about that.

      • lineholder

        It’s just a personal thing for me, guys. Here’s what I’m looking at…we’re little over a year away from the next election. RS has made a name for itself as part of the new media. During the next year, there could be plenty of people who “drop by” for the purpose of trying to learn more about what is going on and what they can do to get involved. I’ve been here going on 4 years and that is still the primary purpose I come to this site…to learn.

        I know that isn’t the case for everybody. I know that there will be people who want to try to build up their preferred candidate by tearing down other candidates. I know that they need to be called on it when they go overboard with it.

        I’m just thinking that…well, what do we learn from so much snark? Personally, I don’t enjoy the snark, especially not what I call the “shark” snark. I may join in on a little fun with the satire like the TMM post, but I stay as far away from the shark snark as I can get.

        (Sigh)

        It just struck me as being rather sad in a way that this post is at the top of the list.

        P. S. Scope, I’m not even going to try to theorize about why certain people may or may not reco’d this. They know better than I do what their reasons were for it.

        • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

          ColdWarrior

        • JSobieski

          Not sure if its laziness or what, but a lot of the problems at RS start with really broad brush arguments where the facts are overstated, or people just assert a label or straw man, and pound it like a drum.

          Why both citing facts or making a specific argument when you can just call someone an elitist or an establishment RINO? If people use a less conclusory style of getting their points across, the overall logic of the site goes up and the snarkiness will go down.

          In the end, a lot of the disagreements here really relate to tactics, not goals.

          • lineholder

            There are many people here at RS that have a great depth of knowledge, especially about American history and politics. I love reading through the comments and seeing how the discussions between people unfold. Plus, there are points that can be brought up in the comments that expand on the original diary in a positive way. I’ve learned a lot from that.

            As to the snark, I think there are a lot of reasons why it takes place. It can serve a positive purpose at times. It can sharpen the wits, cause people to really think about the main point of what they are trying to present, why, and the best approach to take.

            But I do think there are times when it gets out of hand and it turns into a feeding frenzy. The legitimate point of the discussion gets lost.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            We are supposed to listen to the “experts” here who are the mods/editors/whatever.

            Or something. That’s okay. It’s Regnery’s site.

            One thing you will never see from them is the following basic information in concrete terms relating to how many voters they have actually gotten to the polls in the past and how many voters they will actually get to the polls in the future:

            What precinct do they live in?

            How long have they been a voting member of the Republican Party? That is, how many election cycles have they actually voted for the officers of the Party where they live.

            [Que the crickets chirping.]

            What did they do in their precinct to get out the vote in the 2008 and 2010 elections (how many phone calls did the make? How many doors did they knock on? How many e-mails did they send out? (In each case, what percentage of the Republicans in their precinct did they actually “touch” with either a phone call, a door knock, or e-mail?)).

            Me? Appointed precinct committeeman in LD 17 in AZ since 2007.

            Elected precinct committeeman in 2008.

            Elected At Large member of the Maricopa County Republican Party Executive Guidance Committee in Jan., 2009.

            Re-elected precinct committeeman in LD 17 in 2010.

            If I can do it, anyone can.

            Let’s hear from ALL the Redstaters, including the mods, as to where they stand, locally, with the Republican Party.

            Remember this?

            http://www.redstate.com/coldwarrior/2011/03/16/whats-the-precinct-committeeman-count-update/

            Keep typing.

            Or get busy living.

            Oh, and let’s wait to hear from the RS mods as to whether they have voted for their respective Republican Party local committee officers.

            Thank you.

            ColdWarrior

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            CW

          • JSobieski

            is because you make more sense than everybody else put together. Frankly, I wish the RS folks brought you onto their board. You have great ideas to operationalize a site for political combat.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            JSob, thanks for the kind words.

            “Universal respect?” I wish.

            Other than from Erick, and LUR, and Aaron G, and Moe, and Neil (and I apologize to those supporters whom I have overlooked — again, my apologies and don’t be bashful about coming to my, and your, defense), the mods really don’t seem to embrace the idea that maybe, just maybe, it would be a good idea for Redstaters, if possible, to attend their local Republican Party committee meetings.

            If they did, wouldn’t they be writing about it?

            At least I don’t see many Front Page articles by them encouraging Redstaters, and conservatives in general, to heed ColdWarrior’s advice. I’ve been suggesting for years that RS put something on the main page about how to get involved in Republican Party politics, but apparently Republican Party politics, or something else, gets in the way.

            I’ve been accused of being a “one trick pony” here. Fair enough. I wouldn’t be a one trick pony if there were other ponies.

            As for the I have “universal respect” here at RS, that may be the case among the “little people;” however, among the mods, it seems, I’m tolerated at best and criticized when I point out too many rude facts. Indeed, I’ve been accused, with absolutely no facts to back it up, that I have driven more people away from becoming precinct committeemen than I have encouraged. Still waiting for some facts.

            Snore.

            Oh well.

            I envision many, many words will be written here at RS between now and the 2012 primary elections by many, many Front Pagers and contributors about who ought to be the Republican Party presidential nominee, but few words will be written about HOW to make sure that Constitutional conservatives get elected to the RNC delegate positions and the state, county and local Republican Party officer position. And few words will be written about HOW to Get Out The Vote for the Republican Party candidates in the general elections.

            For example, few words will be written about the particular rules relating to the Republican Party presidential primary procedures and requirements in each state. For example, here in AZ, knowing that ONLY registered Republican voters may vote in our Republican Party presidential preference primary, and the deadline for changing one’s party registration to Republican, so as to be eligible to vote in the primary, seems to be the kind of information that one ought be find to be important. But so far we’ve seen little of that kind of basic information discussed by the mods here at RS.

            But we’ll hear lots about Meggie McCain. And whether minncon was worthy of RS.

            It’s hard to “talk the talk” when one has never “walked the walk.” My simple suggestion to those here who have never “walked the walk” is to try it. Then it’s easier to “talk the talk.”

            For Liberty,

            ColdWarrior

          • JSobieski

            and it is usually not given expressly (when someone says that they really respect you, odds are they don’t).

            We all know that ultimately its a votes—on committees, in primaries, and in general elections. Unless someone has a media following to what they say or write, its one person one vote.

            Everyone at RS knows that in terms of actually making a difference, your way is the only way for 99% of us.

          • earlgrey

            a blurb on you on the inside back cover of latest American Majority training.

            I think the reason that you don’t see more being written about it, is because
            1. it is playing the long game — not short term.
            2. it is complicated and difficult to see how real change can be made (at least for me). It is overwhelming.
            3. it takes some effort and excuses come fast and furious when you start asking people to actually step away from the keyboard and into public life and put their name out there as a republican conservative activist.

            Every time there is a front page post urging activists to “contact your senators”, “contact your congressmen” , “contact xyz”, we should remind ourselves that this yields very little actual results. Real change comes from a permanent structure of conservative activists pulling the strings of the R party.

            The guys we elect for dogcatcher could next run for state senator and then congressman etc. Local politics matter, but people (IMO) are too lazy to think about them.

          • rightwingmom52

            Also sounds like you gleaned some valuable info to take home with you. Good luck recruiting!

          • http://jeffemanuel.net Jeff Emanuel

            earplugs-and-sledgehammer approach reserved for RS alone?

            Other than from Erick, and LUR, and Aaron G, and Moe, and Neil (and I apologize to those supporters whom I have overlooked

          • Scope

            and does warrant a separate website to promote his ideas. The problem I had with it is that it is a one size fits all strategy, for every district in the country. I feel insulted when comments are made that the only reason Cantor keeps getting re-elected is because those in his district don’t get inside the party and fight to remove him. It’s not a great idea to remove him, when noone and I mean noone ever primaries him. Heck even the Democrats don’t even bother running any viable or credible candidate against him. If your inside the party in the district, you are a Cantor supporter or else. No can do.

            At the Perry luncheon this week, the 74 year old head of the RPV, made it clear that we must elect Republicans, meaning anyone with an R after their name, and he is one big fan of Cantor’s, just as the majority of the RPV are. Just look at the RPV website and it’s right before your eyes. He’s seen as a hero by the GOP here. I’ve tried a few times to join up, and have been ignored. I truly believe that the party leaders are doing all they can to keep the Paulbots from gaining inside seats to change the Republican party into their image. It’s not right for the GOP heads, but I do understand their predicament, and most definitely agree with it.

          • Bill S

            His characterization that “the mods really don

          • Repair_Man_Jack

            I’ve been on RS since Nov. 2006 and have yet to run across one. Some people find him interesting, others don’t. He is at worst tolerated, and in many cases liked. I don’t get where anyone sees a cloud of discrimination hanging over his head.

          • rightwingmom52

            Stand being the operative word, as in getting up off the couch. I was getting my political education at redstate, and writing a few editorials from time to time, and calling my reps, and making some donations here and there, but it was your third or fourth “nudge” that moved me to get more involved in my local GOP, and not only that, but if you hadn’t linked the site the other day to make a few calls for Bob Turner, I wouldn’t have spent the 10-15 minutes doing just that.

          • aesthete

            When it comes right down to it, the things that a regular person can do past helping a specific campaign are limited: and considering that many of our problems are related to the party’s structure and incentives, that does present a problem. CW presents one of the few ways that citizens have of effecting real change, and it’s a crying shame that people are giving him crap for it. Is it perfect? No. It is, however, a heck of a lot more effective than letter-writing or phone-banking for some Republicrat who’ll more than likely expand government once he gets up there. Milt Friedman once stated that good government is not about getting the “right” people in charge, but rather about convincing the wrong people to do the right thing. The PC project is one of a few ways to change incentives, and IMO ought to be promoted alongside other methods all day, every day until government actors come to their senses and start changing course.

          • Common_Cents

            CW’s precinct project is the single most important things we can be doing. I got involved locally because of it.

            As far as one trick pony? People need to focus on their own causes. Bill Gates was a one trick pony as well as nearly ever other successful person in life. We could use a few more one trick ponies like CW!

            We need a big tent and all the help we can get. That does not mean we all have to give up our beliefs etc…but rather find areas of common ground to unite. Like Reagan said, we need those that agree with us 80% as our friends, but I think a few have been run off here.

        • clearasday

          because it addresses a problem I believe deserves attention. The behavior described is not isolated. As a regular reader of Redstate I’ve seen too many fellow conservatives treated to what amounts to a verbal mugging for absolutely no justifiable reason. Note that I acknowledge that in this particular case Minncon was part of the problem, but the post is an opportunity to spotlight the issue and discuss it. We can have spirited debate without being disrespectful and insulting (except when discussing communists and socialists – wink).

          Some posting here have admitted they were hesitant to start commenting because they felt intimidated. How many others are hanging back in the shadows because they don’t really care to enter a gladiator’s ring in order to interact with what should be their greatest allies and friends in the fight for constitutional small government and individual freedom? How many good people are driven off because some nincompoops get their jollies roughing people up like some high school gang members, jumping up and down and high-fiving each other with their way cool and oh so impressive snarl and snark?

          It ‘s not my purpose to criticize Redstate, which has a lot good things going for it as a unique format for conservatives to interact and exchange information. The problem is a vocal minority who sometimes get carried away and create an unnecessarily hostile environment that I believe is counterproductive to its goals. If nothing else, Minncon will have contributed greatly by raising this issue. Now, back to the arena – where’s my shield and spear?

          • acat

            What’s a conservative?

            You seem to know what a conservative is as you state that you’ve seen them verbally mugged.

            What I’ve seen are a series of individuals who can’t be bothered to read Red State, who have heard half-truths and outright lies about a candidate or issue, and who decide that they must regurgitate this bile.

            I do not accept that these are conservatives.

            Mew

  • conservativecurmudgeon

    They provided some of the funniest, most sophisticated comedy ever done, and they never swore, never were dirty, or even off-color. They knew they operated under the rubic of a wider audience that spanned the cultures and the the generations. Who really knew who was watching? It took enormous amounts of hard work, creativity and strength of character to do comedy this way. Everyone laughs at a fart in an elevator, but it takes zero talent –and just a bad case of gas– to pull it off.

    Dignity and respect has all but vanished now in broader society. Double-entandre runs rampant even on the Disney channel. Rude has replaced respectful. And this cancer metastasizes even in the most pedestrian of places. In some instances, it happens here in the electronic blips at RedState.

    Having said this, I am only in charge of “me”. If I am offended, I have a checkbook to balance, a garden to harvest, a business to keep afloat in the Obama Depression. I have many other demands tapping at my elbow. I dont’ have time to sit and be Offended. Pace the Old Fathers, as For Me and My House, I won’t return Rancor with Rancor.

    Yes, Becker is a pain in the patoot. Acat is, well, a pussycat. But, for every Powertothepeople is a heartlander, and even the most harsh around here have a passion I not only admire, but that which I find absolutely critical to reclaim our once-and-future Great Nation.

    I do hope, Minncon, that you will check back from time to time. We must all hang together, or we will all surely hang separately.

    • rightwingmom52

      one of the reasons I stay. I’ve certainly been challenged on some comments, but managed to survive even though I pretty much wear my heart on my sleeve. However, as you point out, there are folks like heartlander, lineholder, runner12, and others who not only often provide information on various issues, but also comment in such a way that it raises the bar for me personally as to how I want to present my own thoughts.

      Yes, I’m guilty of jumping on the bandwagon occasionally, and I’ve lost my temper a time or two, but lately I’ve grown weary of some of the sniping, even when I thought it was “invited” to an extent.

      Redstate isn’t for the faint of heart, and I lurked around for a while before jumping into the fray. I’ve kept my finger on that backspace button and hit cancel more times than I can count which has served me well, although I’m not always sure if that’s an indication of self-control or fear. LOL. Maybe a little of both.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    (in all fairness, I lowered myself to their level and threw some verbal punches as well

  • http://www.itsaboutliberty.com IronDioPriest

    A “Goodbye Cruel World” diary based on the mild snark quoted makes it to the number one slot?

    There is no such thing as “Daily Kos of the right”. Leftism by its very nature defends the indefensible as task #1. What you’ve experienced is sharp dissenting opinion, and apparently you can’t handle it.

    I used to hang out at a genteel cyber-place where dull elbows were demanded. I could hook you up if you need a new home where all disagreement is agreeable.

  • http://www.baseballcrank.com Dan McLaughlin

    • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

      n/t

  • DonPMitchell

    People should think about and try to understand important issues and form an opinion. But if you cannot understand the opposite point of view, you probably don’t understand the issue at all.

    Paul Krugman recently wrote that conservatism is about opposition to compassion. How ridiculous! Here’s a guy who won a Nobel Prize, and he’s engaging in a childish, inaccurate and propagandistic attack on opposing views. Does he not understand the concept of liberty or the debate about the power of government that stretches back to Jefferson and Hamilton?

    You sould be able to put yourself in your opponents place, figure out why he believes what he does without assuming he is stupid, and then think about why he may be wrong.

  • davenj1

    As you have noted, on occasion, I have been attacked by some of the people you mention in your posting. I believe my views on gay marriage and Romney’s Mormonism were the flash points that elicited certain remarks that either I or my children were mentally retarded at one point. Whatever… I don’t think running from something because a couple of self-appointed commenter/gadflies disagree with and insult you is the solution. Agree to disagree. People like MBecker and a-cat are not necessarily representative of the vast majority of Redstate.com members although they may view themselves as such. Personally, I think that smacks of delusions of grandeur, in which case they have the bigger problem than the insults they fling. And at one time a while ago, I left Redstate because commentators did not consider me “Republican enough” because I sometimes take more moderate views, especially on social issues. Again, whatever. Disagree with me or insult me, but you are not going to change my views, nor my democratic right and responsibility to express those views. On balance, I believe that this site, more than most conservative sites, is perhaps the most balanced. I think you should reconsider your decision to leave. Not everyone believes Rick Perry is the answer, despite what others state. Personally, I think he offers the best hope for the GOP up to this point since Daniels dropped out of consideration. But that is besides the point. The goal is to get Obama out of the White House and less back-biting here will help achieve that goal provided we address our disagreements in a civil fashion.

  • Otto Mattic

    I too have been disappointed with the lack of maturity and civility among many RS commenters. There are too many folks here at RS who don’t bother even listening to someone’s questions or statements, and instead just blast away in a very rude and close-minded fashion.

    This comment is NOT about Perry or any other candidate, so don’t launch off on that topic.

    This comment is about people being uncivil and close-minded, about people plugging their ears and dishing out personal attacks and doing all the things WE BLAST THE BLIND LEFT FOR DOING.

    There are enough bad things in the political world to attack–we don’t have to go after other conservatives that might not agree with us 100%. Is 94% enough? How about 81%? 68%? Look in the mirror, check your threshold and consider raising it. Please!

    • acat

      What about someone who agrees with me 20% of the time but claims to agree with me 80% of the time?

      Assume, for the sake of the question, that I can back up those numbers.

      Mew

      • acat

        It’s okay, though. I’m patient.

        Mew

        • acat

          Yes, I’m still waiting.

          Mew

          • acat

            ya got no reply to my question.

            Mew

          • acat

            Once you do, I’ll be sure to point this thread, where you’ve made a drive-by hit at the entiity of Red State then refused to back it up.

            Putz.

            Mew

  • davenj1

    Let me ask you a question a-cat. Who, besides you, cares what percentage anyone agrees with you? Cute cat by the way.

    • acat

      Since you didn’t use the Reply To This button, I didn’t see your post.

      Otto Mattic stated that we’re pinheads for going after those we disagree with, teeth and claws. And he’s got a point.

      Otto, though, has failed to answer what the practice should be for someone who’s provably lying about how much they agree.

      I cite Bart Stupak as one example – old Bart said he was pro-life, he was quite clear on the point, very proud to support anti-abortion and anti-death-penalty measures right up until .. Obamacare.

      My point is this. When I know someone’s lying through their teeth, I’m calling it out. If that makes me a pinhead in Otto’s book, that’s fine with me. If I’m proven wrong, I’ll dine on crow. I’ve got a good recipe for beer can duck l’orange I could probably adapt for crow, come to think of it.

      Mew

  • harpsichord

    for Obama. The rest is just levels of hell.

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    sometimes.

    I don’t mind flaming and insults. That’s just the internet; pointless to fight it. Might as well go to an NFL football game and yell “shut up” at the crowd.

    What I can’t abide is a double standard, and I see that on Redstate all the time. Once a viewpoint or candidate becomes favored, arguments contrary to the consensus are judged by a different standard. If you agree with the prevailing view, you are given wide lattitude to express your view. If you disagree, you are shouted down or belittled by vocal users who act as enforcers. These vocal users are allowed to be serially disrespectful to others because they are long time users and because they generally agree with the consensus.

    I do not want to seem ungrateful for the efforts of the moderators who volunteer their time and energy to keep this site running. But, as food for thought, I would offer a quote that I was forced to memorize at West Point a long time ago:

  • http://www.libertydwells.com Scott Conklin

    Is that such a post can generate so many comments. On most sites a flounce is ignored. Leaving? Leave. Your reasons are your own and likely not shared by many, else they’d be leaving, too.

  • ekevlar11

    Just for the hilarious comments!!!

  • Kyle-MI

    Maybe you would have gotten a little more respect if you hadn’t used the term, “Perry zombies” all the time. That is not what I would call respectful.

  • snowshooze

    Did I not bother to mention the fact that I thought your diatribes were so sad that they didn’t warrant a response?
    Probably, because that is the truth.

  • AceInTX

    toodles

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    the mods have things to do.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    So, with respect to my comment that seems to have gotten your little lace panties in a wad, let’s revisit the scene.

    Here’s the line from your diary, which followed a litany of lament over Perry’s record with Gardasil, immigration and taxes…

    Most Troubling Of All: Perry Was A Democrat , He Supported Al Gore, AND He Is A

  • Darin_H

    We’ll just point and laugh.

  • runner12

    On a serious note, I can agree that some people can go over the top around here. But from the context listed below it seems that it was YOU minncon first responded unkindly to someone who shared some information that you either did not like or did not agree with.

    People here tend value serious debate on various issues. I have gone ten rounds with some people on here and we still disagree, but they were good discussions and civil for the most part.

    Minncon, a few things I have learned here is to try and avoid name-calling and personal attacks when disagreeing (two things that you indulged in liberally in the above diary, sad to say).. As tempting as it may be at times, it only weakens your argument. A little satire in good fun is good now and then and if all else fails post a recipe like acat :) .

  • porkandcheese

    Too bad his hot wife exhausted him during his campaign.

  • andy_in_texas

    I think you nailed it, mbecker908.

    And, I am glad you liked my original comment. I rarely comment here, but some things are so out of whack I cannot help myself.

    What’s funny is this person describing my use of “bull spatter” as offensive. After the poster described my state in several incorrect and stereotypical ways that I don’t care for I think *bull spatter* was the most gentle term (and somewhat tied into his view of Texans) I could use.

  • Vegas_Rick

    Well said, Mike

  • papabear

    Your last 4 paragraphs (not including the “bye” :-) ) really captures MY “State of the campaign”.

    Well Said!!

  • LiveStronger

    Look, no one likes name-calling. But for the Rick-heads to complain about name-calling would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Romney supporters (I’m one) have been called “Rombots”. Ron Paul supporters have been called “Ronulons” “Paulistians” “Paul-tards” and worse. And I’m sure that supporters of every other candidate have been referred to by some type of moniker.

    We all have to develop skin that is at least as thick as the current president’s. And that’s not saying much.

  • tankertodd

    I have to admit I sent Fred money. I hope she danced for it for him at least, just so I could think the money was well spent.