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How do we know that McCain won the Saddleback forum?

Nope, not "didn't lose," which is all that we had dared hoped for. *Won.*

By: Moe Lane (Diary)  |  August 17th, 2008 at 07:12 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Because his opponent’s people are apparently claiming that McCain cheated, that’s how. Via Hot Air Headlines:

The Obama people must feel that he didn’t do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context, because that–what they’re putting out privately is that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama.

Note: “privately.” That’s because a public accusation of this kind would require at least a little courage to pull off successfully – and it’s not like the Obama campaign has enough people who qualify that they can afford to just waste one on an accusation that’s this petty. Really, say what you like about the netroots, but at least they have enough guts to go toe-to-toe. They can’t fight worth a tinker’s dam, of course, but they’re not afraid to.

How ironic that they chose for their leader the candidate who won’t.

Moe Lane

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  • ConservaGeek

    It’s easy to tell when you beat a lefty in a debate.

    They start whining.

  • justinx0r

    KosKids are already saying that McCain’s “cross in the dirt” story was plagiarized from a Russian who was imprisoned in a gulag.

    They can’t seem to wrap their heads around the fact that Obama can’t speak well when he’s not reading off of a teleprompter.

  • Mord

    so of course they “Nuance” it.

  • gamecock

    USSR didn’t deny it!

  • BigGator5

    That’s got to be an epic new low for the Obama campaign.

  • Mord

    McCain didn’t cheat

    Pretty sad that the question even had to be asked in my opinion. Sad that Obama really IS that bad, heh.

  • ConservaGeek

    Just when I one would think they couldn’t sink any lower, they find a way.

  • muxedo76

    Moe – your last line is a perfect summation of Obama, regardless of the context of the rest of the post.

    He was chosen. Yet he won’t stand up and make a choice . . . on anything.

  • NightTwister

    McCain had a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

  • Mike_Dugas

    Just like Obama’s 40 page rebuttal to Corsi’s book, there’s no better way to draw attention to his lackluster performance than to cry “FOUL” about the Saddleback Forum.

    Max: Ahh The old broken cone of silence trick!

  • theoneandonlyfinn

    is just a start for McCain…
    As for Obama…
    It says a lot when you go from beating your opponent in the electoral college 320 to 218 in late June, with a 5pt lead in the popular vote…

    to trailing him now 264-274 (while still holding the popular vote lead!)
    despite having 10x the volunteers, raising 2x the funds,
    having your party beating the opposing party 45-30 in generic ballots,

    and being coronated by much of the media.

    I doubt McCain will crack 300 electoral votes. But if the Obama camp continues to slip up, perhaps this will be a pullaway for the Republican.

  • bluesriffer

    You mean he didn’t use his mental powers to determine what the questions were before they were asked?

  • Section9

    I used to believe that Andrew Sullivan had a shred of integrity to him, but apparently he picked up this billingsgate about the guard story being ripped off from Solzhenytsin.

    What a total shill for Obama.

  • Section9

    When you build your campaign around a Cult of Personality, there comes a time when it’s time to pass out the Loaves and Fishes and turn Water into Wine.

    “Details, Schmetails! It’s on my Website!”

    Turns out Obama’s not Jesus after all. He’s Piltdown Man.

  • bs

    Turns out Obama’s not Jesus after all. He’s Piltdown Man.

    I gotta write that one down!!

  • bk

    I call it the “there are those who say” approach. Some nutcase posts some wild accusation, and the accused is hit with “There are those who say that (insert lie here)” questions. The MSM assumes the accusation is true unless it can be disproved. If it can be disproved, then someone from the left either offers the typical “That raised more questions than it answered” or else just ignores it and move on to the next lie.

    It’s easy for them to play this game when the MSM supports it.

  • jonlester

    I’m watching and disregarding Rick Sanchez’s story on the “broken cone of silence,” too, and I think it’s useless to doubt the cross-in-the-dirt story, but I’m still bothered that McCain not only thought it relevant to initially say that bit about ancient Georgia being among the “first nations to adopt Christianity as an official religion,” but also to repeat and expand upon it last night.

    I can’t be alone among RS to feel this way. RS members are too smart to conveniently ignore the fact of 1000 years of Christianity in Russia and the fact that the American way is to have no official religion whatsoever. I just wonder if McCain’s being honest, saying something in league with the Georgia lobbying contract or speaking in contempt of the American voter.

    We’ve had so many times this season when, just as we reassure ourselves enough to actively support McCain, he goes and says something to completely undo it. This may be much worse than the previous examples.

  • bs

    is enough to “undo your support” for McCain, then you deserve what the Obamination will deliver.

  • CK_MacLeod

    …*after *banning you from their discussion threads for making arguments they don’t know how to respond to.

  • Adjoran

    Christian history is enough for you to disqualify McCain, then you would not have voted for him under any circumstances.

    IOW, that remark had no effect at all upon you – or anyone else, for that matter.

  • pilgrim

    .

  • bs

    before we ban them. :-)

  • jonlester

    In the week or so before the escalation in Georgia, I was feeling dismayed about many of “our people” in the media. I knew people like Joseph Farah and Jerome Corsi were liars and opportunists, to put it kindly, but I was learning more and more how many things propagated by Hannity and Boortz were not just habitual hyperbole but intentional disinformation. As I said in another comment, there’s no way the whiners at Media Matters are wrong about everything. To make matters worse, even Rush himself, who’s supposed to be smarter than Hannity and the other me-too hosts, was himself giving weight to the new Corsi book.

    What I’m saying is, I’ve kept some confidence in the integrity of RS but as the above replies suggest, this site is not itself without prejudice. RS regulars know I don’t come on to push people’s buttons but I’m telling you how I really feel right now. If I’m supposed to not only go along with all apologies for McCain but also endure his naked pandering and contempt for the American voter, then all possible near-future scenarios are worse than I thought. Seriously, that’s what Obama supporters do. I knew both candidates are fighting for votes from every level of voter faculty but this is really getting bad. Judge me however you will, if you feel so empowered, but I submit that’s not the most “Christian” thing to do here.

  • MCM

    I saw you say this last night. I’m surprised that you’re still on this point. I think you’re overreacting.

    To be sure, I didn’t like McCain’s mention of Georgia’s Christian history when I first heard him say it. But as he expanded, I understood that all he was attempting to do was to answer the objection: “Who is this piddling little country and why on Earth should we care.” So he talked about how beautiful the place is, it’s democracy, how welcoming and friendly the people are, AND he also talked about its Christian history. I don’t think he was trying to say that we should support Georgia because it has a longer Christian history than Russia.

    I think all he was trying to do was to paint a picture of the place as not just some faceless tiny place that we share nothing in common with and are being asked to take risks for.

    But in any case, I find it shocking that you’d be this troubled by that comment.

  • jonlester

    Rush himself used to remind us that “words mean things,” before he started abusing words as badly and as often as any Democrat. I’ve let a lot of stupid things go in the nearly 2 years of this presidential campaign but I think this point deserves more than casual dismissal.

    There’s also a matter of factual contention. What we call Georgia (and the Russians call Gruzia) is defined by the borders drawn by Stalin himself. The 3rd or 4th century “adoption of Christianity” was imposed by the region’s imperial rulers (again, not exactly the American way). And I haven’t mentioned how similar McCain’s statements were to the Wikipedia entry, because there’s plenty of that being cited all around.

  • pilgrim

    Have you ever visited Russia for a month or so? Have you ever went to church in Russia? Have you ever sat around in an apartment room in an area that looks like what we call the projects and talked about current events?

    I have. I can tell you from firsthand experience that the regular folks do not believe the news narratives being framed by the Kremlin.

  • graceful_klutz

    I read today that neither candidate was given a list of questions ahead of time other than the first two questions. They were given those. I also read that each of them had a chance to meet with Warren during the past couple of weeks so that he could give them a feel for the types of questions/content he was going to ask.

    Last night, when Warren asked Obama about the adoption plan, Obama said that he “cheated” and had read through it the night before.

    I’m sorry I don’t have the transcript, but does anyone know why Obama would make that statement? Did he have the questions ahead of time?

    When I was in second grade, a girl in my class sat next to me and copied my answers on a test onto her test. The minute I finished my test, she ran to the teacher and accused me of cheating off her. Our answers were identical, so I was put in the corner for a week. I know it’s a silly story and that’s how I met my best friend, (she was in the corner too), but I learned a valuable lesson that day. Cheaters are the first to squeal to divert attention.

    All of Obama’s squealing today reminds me a lot of that girl in 2nd grade.

  • gensec

    I didn’t see the interviews, but later I looked at redstate and dkos blogs on the topic. Both we’re predictably saying “Yay our guy outdid the other,” so no light shed there. But then I saw some kossaks complaining that McCain must have known what the questions would be, and knew he must have done well.

    I’m not a big McCain fan, but this looks like a win for the straight talk express. It’s a lot easier to keep your story straight when you just tell it like you see it, rather than trying to keep track of your previous lies and focus group lines while you figure out what’s the best thing to say.

  • graceful_klutz

    by calling Corsi, Farah, Hannity and Boortz liars?

    Interesting approach.

  • goldenboy

    Man, you’ve got to be kidding.

    I think McCain was just trying to show off his foreign affairs skills by citing factoids about Georgia in his discussion… nothing more, nothing less.

    Still, I find it interesting that historians often say Stalin was born in Georgia, Gori to be exact, yet you seem to think Stalin drew the map?

    Cut McCain a little slack. People like me who supported McCain in these very posts through the primaries had just this Saddleback-type performance in mind. Once McCain gets going, he is a truly inspirational figure.

    I love how McCain dragged the dem Congress into it too and framed drilling as a national security issue…

  • JSobieski

    if this comment really gets you all riled up.

    First, in terms of modern boundaries being set by Stalin—ALL of the current Eastern European boundaries were set by Stalin. The boundaries of Poland, Czech, Hungary, Ukraine, et al. were each defined by Stalin. Does that mean that these countries didn’t exist before then? NO. In fact Georgia was invaded in 1921 by the USSR back when Lenin was running the show.

    Second, Georgia was and is a country in which Christianity plays a very strong role in the culture. You wouldn’t be upset at McCain if he referred to Saudi Arabia as being Muslim nation, or India as being a Hindu nation, so why is any mentioned of Chrisianity automatically suspect? Poland didn’t become a Christian nation until around 1000AD, but to call it a Christian nation would still be a very accurate statement.

    Third, McCain never said that Russia was not a Christian nation. He never said anything about the religious belief of Russians.

    If this one reference gets you that steamed up, then you require strong and regular medication.

    If this one reference gets you that steamed up, read Pravda for a day and you will have a heart attack.

    If you don’t want to vote for McCain, then don’t do so. However, to harp on these comments in the context of Georgia fighting for its very existence is as much picking on Georgia as it is picking on McCain. When your youngest brother is in a fight and the other guy pulls a knife is not the time to level criticism to your brother. Georgia is an ideological brother to anyone in the US who values freedom over socialism and rule of law over kleptocracy.

  • Robert_L_Mayo

    In any debate, you can tell Obama lost by how loud and angry Obama supporters are in:

    1) Attacking his opponent afterwards, and

    2) Complaining that it was somehow “unfair”

    Judging by the venom of pro-Obama posters on various websites, he lost badly.

  • CK_MacLeod

    …and same to the above commenter explaining that the mention of the early adoption of Christianity was just an easy, accessible way of pointing out that Georgia is a real nation, not just some odd little Soviet leftover carved out of tribal remnants and some accidents of geography. Georgia actually has an interesting history going back 3,000 years – including a distinctive style of architecture, an individualistic culture, and a deep national literature written in one of the only 14 existing alphabets. They’ve managed to maintain cultural coherence and some degree of political integrity despite being repeatedly taken over by one or another opressive neighboring empire.

    If they weren’t a bunch of white Christians, Hollywood would adopt them as an indigenous culture under threat worthy of self-congratulatory speechifying at the Oscars. AND they’ve fought with us and sought friendship and alliance. Going nuts about McCain’s highlighting their Christian history is silly.

    I have no idea what specifically Rush said that bugged Jon Lester so much, but, if it’s for having taken some aspects of the Corsi book seriously, with or without acknowledgment of Corsi’s own huge problems, I’m not convinced that having done so is such a crime.

  • Brandozilla

    remember the Bush vs. kerry debate?
    Democrats and the media went wild speculating about a wrinkle on Bush’s back and all but accused him of being wired.

    It seems whenever democrats lose an election, it is because the Republican cheated.

    The idea that obama cannot lose a debate (or forum) unless his opponent cheats, only legitimzies McCain’s “The One” ads.

  • Pockmark0Notorious

    …that they’re suggesting that McSame wasn’t in a cone of silence? Because he wasn’t actually in a cone of silence.

    He was in his motorcade. Which, (unless the cynical jokes about McSame’s disconnection from modern technology are true) probably has a television. Or a radio. Or someone with Blackberry.

    But since he’s a POW he couldn’t have cheated. At least, that’s the line from his campaign.

    Nicolle Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain, said on Sunday night that Mr. McCain had not heard the broadcast of the event while in his motorcade and heard none of the questions. ?The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,? Ms. Wallace said.

    Well, that settles that.

  • Moe_Lane

    But watching your guy lose this was just a touch too much for you; and the mask slipped. :shaking head: “McSame.” Man, you must have been bursting blood vessels to keep from shrieking that sneer at us over and over again.

    Ach, well.

  • mikefisk

    …that his people, even in private, are referring to the “cone of silence”.

    Come on, how stupid do they think we are? I may not be that old, but I’ve watched Nick At Nite, I’ve seen the old Get Smart episodes… we all know the Cone of Silence doesn’t work, and usually worked perversely…

    I’m amused.

  • PockmarkONotorious

    Did you miss the posts where I was calling Obama, Obamesiah?

    I enjoy the cute little names people give candidates. So I thought I’d start using one for McCain, ie McSame. (It’s a real shame Rick Santorum is out of politics, I know a few clever names for him)

    But, naming aside, you have to admit it’s interesting to discover that former prisoners of war are physically unable to cheat.

    Yet another reason to play checkers at the VFW.

    Also…did my last account get a posting ban because I called McCain, McSame?

    Because that’s just alittle thin skinned.

  • blooch

    And feel free to refer to “Obama, a former community organizer” whenever you think it might help. We won’t think less of you for that, but you shouldn’t poke sticks at the VFW.

  • Pentagon16

    so the same Lester who is over at Contentions (Commentary Magazine’s blog) parroting the Obama talking points is now over here at Redstate taking shots at the Republican nominee.

    Enough with your tired act dude- we see through your shilling and false flag operations.

  • tcgeol

    Are you saying that McCain was wrong about Christianity in Georgia or that you didn’t like that he mentioned it?

    If he was wrong, I can see your unhappiness. If you just didn’t like it, well, join the crowd. He has said enough to anger everyone now at some point or other.

    As to Farah, Corsi, Sean and Rush, what is your problem with them? Examples that is, not vague accusations. I think they have all been wrong at times, but liars and dishonest is quite an accusation.