I’m going to put up the full text of the Vatican’s statement about Nancy Pelosi’s visit with the Pope, because I suspect that they want this put out there:
Following the General Audience the Holy Father briefly greeted Mrs Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the United States House of Representatives, together with her entourage.
His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church’s consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death which enjoin all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists and those responsible for the common good of society, to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development.”
Based on what I wrote earlier, I’m thinking that while the Church is hopeful to avoid a confrontation in the American Church over abortion, it is not expectant that they can avoid it. Ed Morrissey is right when he notes the use of the word “consistent” in the above: it’s in direct contradiction to the excuse Pelosi uses to justify her heresy on abortion. I keep using the term “heresy” here because that’s what it is, by the way: pro-choice Catholics are not having a debate with the Church on this doctrine, much as they’d like to pretend otherwise. That would imply that the Roman Catholic Church recognizes their right to have a variant opinion on this topic and still be a good Catholic, which it pointedly does not - which is why Benedict XVI made sure to have this statement sent out.
Fortunately, it’s really easy to leave the Church these days, and it’s perfectly safe to do it, too. Unfortunately, there’s no indication that the Speaker of the House will take the hint and either reform her ways, or switch her sect. Really unfortunately, that means that we’re not any less likely to see a showdown over FOCA, which is probably going to end with a lot of Catholic hospitals permanently closing their doors, rather than provide abortion services.
Personally, I don’t see where parent-notification laws and mandatory ultrasounds are such an intolerable burden to the American people that they justify shutting down health-care providers that disproportionately treat the poor, but that’s just me.
Moe Lane
Crossposted to Moe Lane.
All I can say to that is....
cbenner Wednesday, February 18th at 12:43PM EST (link)Amen brother!
I could be conspiratorial here
civil_truth Wednesday, February 18th at 12:43PM EST (link)and posit that pushing the Catholic hospitals (and other like minded hospitals) is exactly what the goal of the FOCA legislation would be.
First they can accuse the Catholic Church of overstepping the separation of church and state and trying to impose their views on the country, which would justify further restrictive legislation against the expression of unfavored religious opinion in the public realm (removing tax exemptions, speech laws, etc).
Second, this becomes an excuse for getting government into the business of running hospitals to serve these poor and needy whom the callous Church has abandoned. Possbly in conjunction with getting the properties at an extortionary rate. A giant leap toward government-run healthcare and recruitment of a permanent voter base.
Though perhaps they simply expect the Church to fold in the face of a propaganda campaign. Either way, a win.
And Rightly So!
One problem with that scenario is that the Church...
Moe Lane Wednesday, February 18th at 12:50PM EST (link)…will close the hospitals. They won’t resell to a third party, and the PR disaster that would accompany trying to confiscate them would instantly wreck everything that the Democrats have done for Latino outreach for the last few decades.
I don’t think that the Church really wants a showdown on this; but they also don’t want their hospitals performing abortions.
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Quite a miscalculation on FOCA by dems
Read Chesterton in New Improved Jersey Wednesday, February 18th at 2:13PM EST (link)They seem to be bolstered by the false statistic that most Catholics are D voters. If the statistic were to leave out the lapsed and “cultural” non-churchgoing self-identified Catholics, it would reveal a consolidated Conservative base that would dwarf the so called protestant evangelical “Religious Right.” Go ahead President Obama… energize that base even further. It has money, and it votes.
“Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate.” - G. K. Chesterton, “Orthodoxy,” Chapter VIII.
Agree
JHancock Wednesday, February 18th at 5:03PM EST (link)I don’t think the Church would just hand over properties to other pro-abortion management. They would be more likely to privatize and not take govt funds, then run the Hospital however they want–or simply close-otherwise they would be helping abortion just as much as if they did it themselves.
Personally I’m really frightened by FOCA as I am a anti-choice Medical student (I say anti-choice, not pro-life because it recognizes that some things shouldn’t be left to choice, like the choice to rape or the choice to kill, that’s why we have laws and need anti-abortion laws).
My concern is punitive zoning and/or taxation
civil_truth Wednesday, February 18th at 7:25PM EST (link)I don’t know if it is possible to the church to fully privitize their hospital operations to escape FOCA. Depending on how expansively the law is written, it’s pretty hard to avoid all federal entanglement.
And under FOCA, it wouldn’t take much more of a stretch to turn denial of abortions into a civil rights violation. Religious convictions won’t be a defense - witness the overriding of religious convictions in recent cases involving public accomodations or businesses open to the public. And Massachusetts didn’t hesitate to shut down Catholic adoptions over gay adoptions, which was framed as a civil rights matter. So this could become a big club in the hands of government.
And if the hospitals do try to shut down, then I’d expect that they would be stuck with unusable property if the zoning authorities refused to change zoning. Plus they could get hit with punitive property taxes once they no longer use the property to operate a hospital. Again, more pressure for them to sell out.
And all the time, there will be all sorts of effort to get the church to adopt a fig-leaf as their clothing style.
And Rightly So!
JHancock - you should touch bases with Susannah
civil_truth Wednesday, February 18th at 7:28PM EST (link)Both of you are medical students - you should compare notes.
I have Susannah’s e-mail address - if you sent yours to me at yahoo.com I’ll forward it to Susannah.
And Rightly So!
They can say whatever they want, but...
paint_it_red Wednesday, February 18th at 6:39PM EST (link)It is impossible, yes impossible, for the Church to overstep the bound between Church and State. Why? Because the Constitution only acts to restrict government from “endorsing an establishment of religion or prevent the free exercise thereof.” Legally, its a non-starter.
Last time I checked, Catholics are one of the, if not the, largest swing constituencies in the country. The Church’s action on this does not take a prophet to predict. The Bishops have already stated unequivocally that compliance with FOCA would bring their hospitals into direct cooperation with evil.
The Church would not, however, just shut down. They would more likely operate and tend the sick as long as possible and force the FOCA advocates to shut them down. So who gets the political win there?
“It is not good to cultivate a respect so much for the law as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think is right.” Henry David Thoreau
“The means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek.” Martin Luther King Jr.
“If you want peace, work for Justice.” Pope John Paul II
Empires, kingdoms, republics, etc., have gotten into stare-downs with the Church before...
Crowe Wednesday, February 18th at 1:16PM EST (link)…notice how those turned out for the secular powers of the world?
“Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it” has a couple modern-day corollaries:
“Those who study history but think themselves inherently greater than their forebears are doomed to repeat it.”
And
“Those who study history and learn its lessons are surrounded by those doomed to repeat it.”
Pelosi should ask General Jaruzelski about opposing the Pope on cultural issues…
“We sleep soundly in our beds only because
rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harmDear Leader Obama gives us leave to do so.”Here's Pelosi's statement about meeting the Pope...
Crowe Wednesday, February 18th at 1:28PM EST (link)I can just hear Pelosi’s opening statement:
“Your Holiness, I really want to commend you for your work to end poverty, hunger, and global warming. And, wouldn’t you know it, I work hard to end those very same things! I mean, under policies that I have supported and other policies that I hope to enact into law, we’ll dramatically reduce the number of people being born, which will cause the number of people living in poverty, who are hungry, and who are contributing to global warming to go down… In fact, with our efforts combined–yours to end poverty and hunger for those who manage to escape the birth canal in one piece, and mine to reduce the number of those who do–we can likely make a real difference! Isn’t that great!”
“We sleep soundly in our beds only because
rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harmDear Leader Obama gives us leave to do so.”Pelosi shrewdly avoids referring to BXVI's pro-life admonishment, and who's to know?
Read Chesterton in New Improved Jersey Wednesday, February 18th at 2:25PM EST (link)The media won’t report on anything but Pelosi’s spin.
“Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate.” - G. K. Chesterton, “Orthodoxy,” Chapter VIII.
I'm sure she composed her statement before the audience.
Crowe Wednesday, February 18th at 2:31PM EST (link)Besides, as I intimate in my possible Pelosi opening statement, it’s not like she isn’t interested in reducing the number of abortions down the road… If more baby girls are aborted today, there will be fewer women to get abortions in the future! See? Nan really is working hard to reduce the number of abortions after all!
“We sleep soundly in our beds only because
rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harmDear Leader Obama gives us leave to do so.”Oh the irony of Pelosi flashing pictures of her grandchildren at the pope...
Read Chesterton in New Improved Jersey Wednesday, February 18th at 3:09PM EST (link)as he’s admonishing her to stop legislating for the murder of unborn babies.
“Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate.” - G. K. Chesterton, “Orthodoxy,” Chapter VIII.
Indeed. n/t
Crowe Wednesday, February 18th at 4:00PM EST (link)n/t
“We sleep soundly in our beds only because
rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harmDear Leader Obama gives us leave to do so.”And she further shows her extreme ignorance
Praying Wednesday, February 18th at 11:06PM EST (link)by bringing up “global warming”. Hey Dims - get it through your frozen thick heads - global warming is a HOAX!!!!!
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Pelosi
JHancock Saturday, March 7th at 8:42PM EST (link)is the most evil B**CH to exist in reality or fiction. She’s like Delilah, DeVille, Medusa, Frau Eva Braun, and a Harpy all rolled into one.
Someone please get her out of office!
Surprise, AP is reporting the Vatican's Press release, not Pelosi's spin... (link follows)
Read Chesterton in New Improved Jersey Wednesday, February 18th at 3:55PM EST (link)Pope tells Nancy Pelosi life must be protected
That is noteworthy.
“Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate.” - G. K. Chesterton, “Orthodoxy,” Chapter VIII.