I am curious about how many times this administration plans to insult the Roman Catholic Church:
Vatican blocks Caroline Kennedy appointment as US ambassador
The Vatican has blocked the appointment of Caroline Kennedy as US ambassador, according to reports.
Vatican sources told Il Giornale that their support for abortion disqualified Ms Kennedy and other Roman Catholics President Barack Obama had been seeking to appoint.
You would think that after the Vatican made it so clear that Kmiec was unacceptable that he never even made it on the list the White House would take the hint and find a pro-life Democratic Catholic for the job; apparently not. You would also think that this language was clear:
“The Holy See has always set a very simple standard: the person should not be in opposition to fundamental teachings of the Church that belong to our common shared humanity. He or she may not believe in Catholic dogma if he or she is not a Catholic, but we could not accept someone who is in favor of abortion, or (human) cloning or same-sex unions equated to marriage,” the official said.
“That is a fairly simple principle that governments like, say, Spain and Cuba, or Mr. Clinton’s administration, have been able to understand without a problem.”
The official said that the debate around the chances of Prof. Kmiec to become Vatican Ambassador “is closed.” “He nailed the last nail in the coffin with his latest “disappointing position on embryonic stem cell research.”
Like it or not - and I’m thinking that the Obama administration is in the ‘not’ list - the Vatican is a real and recognized nation-state, for all that its physical borders are inside the city of Rome. The White House needs to start taking this situation seriously, and stop treating it as an opportunity to play domestic politics. Catholic Democrats likewise have to face the fact that the head of their ostensible religion makes a fundamental distinction between disagreement with the Church on abortion, and disagreement with the Church on, say, capital punishment or war - and that the Pope doesn’t want American Catholics to be comfortable about the fact that they’re pro-choice while the Church is pro-life.
It’s not as if this is a difficult realization to make, after all. I’m as bad a Catholic as just about anybody else out there, and I worked this all out years ago.
Moe Lane
Crossposted to Moe Lane.
bs
Caleb Howe
Vladimir
Wildlife
noainc Saturday, April 11th at 2:25PM EDT (link)The lack of insight expressed by many people concerning Alaska wildlife is disturbing. I am thankful we have a Governor who is sufficiently concerned about the wildlife resources to take what steps she can to enhance these resources.
Predation control should be expanded to include killing bears. Bears are extremely hard on moose calves in the first two weeks of their lives.
The state has done what it can to implement limited predator control, and management needs to be expanded. On the Federal side there is no management at all. Hunting is restricted on many Federal land management units with the excuse that subsistence uses have a priority. Yet, if the Federal managers were serious about protecting “subsistence” they would also implement predator control programs.
Aside from the obvious need for abundant game animal populations to feed Alaska’s rural and urban population, hunting provides a much needed part of the rural economic needs. To pretend that the provision of hunting services to non-resident hunters is in any way detrimental to Alaska is nonsense.
In many rural communities there is literally no private industry. Rural Alaska cannot sustain itself on Federal and State welfare programs. The negative social effects of 30 years of cradle to grave government funded livelihoods have decimated the social fabric of much of rural Alaska.
Any attempts by the private sector to pursue the creation of mining, hunting or any activities which provide economic benefits to rural residents as an alternative to living off the state have faced huge obstacles. The continued suppression of our wildlife resources by both mis-informed local residents and outside profiteer “animal rights” groups either do not know, or more likely, do not care, of the negative consequences to the quality of life for locals.
Alaska continues to be a destination spot for people from outside to enjoy the country, hire local services, and then leave our state with only beneficial results. These include the store merchants, airlines, locals, artisans and any number of ways. The meat harvested by outside hunters feeds numerous families and elders who can no longer hunt.
Sound management which enhances wildlife resources is critical. We are fortunate to have an administration which appears to be friendly toward small business and the needs of the productive segment of the population.
Alaska’s rural regions best hope for a healthy future is for the government to restrict itself to constitutional limitations, provide access to the resources for its citizens, enhance the resources through sound management where possible and wean its citizens from dependence on welfare.
Two points...
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 2:33PM EDT (link)1. Drink coffee before posting. No decaf allowed.
2. Put on your glasses.
noainc
mom2oneson Saturday, April 11th at 2:40PM EDT (link)Is that for a seperate diary? That was interesting to read though.
I feel bad for those baby moose.:(
This has what to do wuth Moe's post? nt
TNJim Saturday, April 11th at 2:50PM EDT (link)Join the RedState Strike Force
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
“He’s such a charming liar” Air America host Christiane Brown referring to Barack Obama
"With" not "wuth".... geez nt
TNJim Saturday, April 11th at 2:51PM EDT (link)Join the RedState Strike Force
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
“He’s such a charming liar” Air America host Christiane Brown referring to Barack Obama
King Arthur of the original Camelot also had to appoint a pro-lifer as
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, April 11th at 2:33PM EDT (link)ambassador to the Holy See
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Excellent post Moe.
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 2:34PM EDT (link)I just wish I’d thought of it first.
"A Real State"
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 2:56PM EDT (link)Why send an ambassador at all? The Vatican is a historical curiosity that remains independent only because of Pius IX’s tantrums and chronic illiberality. In temporal affairs, which are, I presume, the affairs that an ambassador is sent to address, the Vatican lacks any real independence or influence on world affairs. Even their policing — the most basic operation of an independent polity — is handled by Italy.
What affairs of state can an ambassador even discuss? The Vatican’s single mailbox? The Vatican’s ambassadors from other states? It’s a tremendous waste of money, time, and influence to send an ambassador at all, and the pretense demeans both the Church’s spiritual authority and the state’s temporal authority.
Yes, 911 proved that non-real states are no problem and Pope John Paul II
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, April 11th at 2:59PM EDT (link)proved that non-real states have no armies that can rival Stalin’s? not!
on both
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Re: non-real states
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 3:13PM EDT (link)I assume, however, that we are not going to send an ambassador to al-Qaida, and that the Pope isn’t going to fly a plane into the Sears Tower.
We've actually sent sent US ambassadors to al-Qaida.
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 3:35PM EDT (link)And they’ve been very effective in negotiating a stand-down in terrorist actions against US interests.
Here’s a picture of the Ambassadorial Team relaxing between negotiation sessions.
Oh, Becker! That was so lovely!
janis Saturday, April 11th at 3:37PM EDT (link)Talk about the good old days. ~sigh~
5 x 5 x 5. there are advantages to disproportionate response
David123 Saturday, April 11th at 3:43PM EDT (link)nt
David123
thanks for that perfect rebuff 'becker - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Sunday, April 12th at 7:57AM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Popes are more efficient than that
David123 Saturday, April 11th at 3:46PM EDT (link)The previous Pope was instrumental in making the Berlin Wall collapse … and John Paul didn’t have to waste a plane to do it.
David123
10^, David 123, that was excellent. n/t
janis Saturday, April 11th at 3:48PM EDT (link)n/t
and Reagan flew his plane to see the Pope - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, April 11th at 10:04PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
You Should Study The Vatican's Role In The Fall of Communism
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 3:06PM EDT (link)I suggest you read this:
http://www.amazon.com/President-Pope-Prime-Minister-Changed/dp/1596980168
The Vatican is the oldest organized governing body in the world. Don’t hate.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
Alternate Theory on Breakup of USSR
novimir Saturday, April 11th at 11:04PM EDT (link)I have an alternate theory about what happened in 1991:
1. Russia has a very strong national identity associated with
being a Slavic Russian.
2. In the mid-1970s Russians were already noting that Slavic
Russians would be a minority in the USSR by 2010.
3. Demographers also looked at the growth rate of the Central
Asian republics and suggested by 2050 Muslims would be the
majority in the USSR.
So according to the alternate theory, in 1991 the Slavic Russians decided to keep the power, keep the military bases, keep the economic control, but get rid of the non-Russian republics.
Today, Russia has all the key military bases it had before 1991, has maintained its economic interests, but is no longer in danger of having Slavic Russians be outnumbered by Muslims within their own country.
Statistics are shown below. I used:
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/countrycompare/pg/1a.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
There are many other sources. The table shows country name, current population, and populations growth rate. Compare the five Central asian Republics to Russia.
Russia 141,850,000 -0.37
Ukraine 46,143,700 -0.63
Uzbekistan 27,488,000 1.67
Kazakhstan 15,571,50 0.3
Belarus 9,690,000 -0.09
Azerbaijan 8,629,900 0.59
Tajikistan 6,952,000 2.15
Kyrgyzstan 5,482,000 1.29
Turkmenistan 5,110,000 1.81
Georgia 4,382,100 -0.35
Lithuania 3,350,40 -0.3
Armenia 3,230,100 -0.25
Latvia 2,260,000 -0.69
Estonia 1,340,341 -0.65
You own argument refutes yourself when you note the Slavic Russians of the mid-1970s
Mike gamecock DeVine Sunday, April 12th at 7:59AM EDT (link)The fall came not in the mid-70s though. It came AFTER Reagan buried them.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Re: You own argument refutes yourself when you note the Slavic Russians of the mid-1970s
novimir Sunday, April 12th at 1:49PM EDT (link)Obviously you believe that to take a proactive action to solve a problem is beyond the capability of Russian people.
The theory presented does more to explain what happened in 1991 and the world as it is in 2009 than that book ever will.
It’s hard to put a puzzle together if you don’t have all the pieces.
Come on, the leader of the Catholic Church is not important -nt
DONTREADONME Saturday, April 11th at 3:12PM EDT (link)Ophite has 4 comments in the last 5 months...
DONTREADONME Saturday, April 11th at 3:15PM EDT (link)I should not even addressed him. I should not even made my previous sarcastic comment
What?
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 3:25PM EDT (link)I’m simply questioning the wisdom of sending an ambassador to the rump pseudo-state left after the dissolution of the Papal States. The Pope’s continual insistence that Catholicism be treated as either a world-spanning empire or a personal matter of conscience, depending on which benefits the religion at the time, is incredibly grating.
He is either the spiritual head and moral guide of a world-spanning religion or the princeling of a micro-theocracy, representing the interests of a few hundred priests. He is not both.
Let me rephrase...
DONTREADONME Saturday, April 11th at 3:27PM EDT (link)I should not have engaged you since reading your previous comments, you are obviously not worth my time. So, if I fail to respond to you again, you know that I have better people to argue with.
"incredibly grating"? On whom does it grate?
janis Saturday, April 11th at 3:41PM EDT (link)Because if you’re speaking for thousands out there, I’d have to have some proof of that. If you’re speaking for just yourself, who cares what grates on you?
Re: pro-life
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 4:04PM EDT (link)So, let’s take this back to the beginning.
Acting on his own, against church policy, some schmuck priest denies Doug Kmiec communion, and somehow — despite the fact that the church hierarchy specifically and severely repudiated the denial of communion — that becomes sufficient retroactive evidence that Kmiec would be an inappropriate ambassador. Doubly insane is the fact that his support for Obama, which is a necessary qualification to act as an ambassador for his administration, was the very reason for his inappropriate denial of communion.
So, Obama chooses another supporter to send to the Vatican: a Catholic in good standing, still receiving communion. She is then rejected by the Vatican for reasons unrelated to her qualifications to be an ambassador. This betrays an extraordinary misunderstanding of the purpose of an ambassador. An ambassador isn’t there to argue for the interests and policies of the host nation to the President; the ambassador is there to argue for the interests and policies of America to the host nation.
This necessarily requires that that ambassador, at a minimum, support the policies of the administration. If, in his capacity as a moral leader, he decides that he can never be in the presence an ethical disagreement, then that’s fine: that’s a decision that he, as the leader of a state, can make. But he, just like the head of any other state, doesn’t get an entirely compliant ambassador just because he’s also the Pope.
Clarification
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 4:20PM EDT (link)Incidentally, we shouldn’t be dictating policy to the Pope for the same reason that the Pope oughtn’t have a right to an American official to dictate policy back to us: the Vatican isn’t a state, and has no business being one, and we are a democracy, and have no business having foreign leaders dictating policy to us.
Instead, how about our Catholic citizens dictate our policy to us, insofar as they’re a large percentage of our voting population?
Aren't they fun when they're indignant?
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 4:25PM EDT (link)Particularly since Mr. Gnostic here has a mad-on for the Church anyway.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Re: Gnostic
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 5:15PM EDT (link)Also — wait, what? I’m a Gnostic because I think the Church isn’t a State?
I think you missed the point.
Rod_Patrick Saturday, April 11th at 5:33PM EDT (link)The Church is independent of State. So what’s your problem?
As for your own policy, it doesn’t apply to the Vatican. So who are you to criticize the Catholic Church? It is an independent State with a policy of its own. It has its own right and rules to reject or refuse as it pleases.
Oh, my apologies.
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 5:44PM EDT (link)I had assumed that your username was a clever reference to a pre-Nicean heresy/rival mystical movement.
Alas, I overestimated. My bad.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
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My (blogging-related) wish list.
No it's probably just a villian in a Final Fantasy game
Neil Stevens Saturday, April 11th at 5:49PM EDT (link)Real history is probably beyond his ability to know or care.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.
ophite, you're an ignorant fool.
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 3:47PM EDT (link)I’d wake up HBunny, but you’re not worth the grief I have to put with from a tired angry rabbit.
By your “definition”, we shouldn’t be sending representatives to Britain or Russia either. Or France. Or Germany.
Oh, and you have absolutely no clue about the concept of “religion” or “conscience”.
Ick. I read your crap, I need a shower.
Maybe I will wake up HBunny. I’ll think about it, but I may even get Franz involved.
Representatives
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 5:13PM EDT (link)By your “definition”, we shouldn’t be sending representatives to Britain or Russia either. Or France. Or Germany.
The Vatican doesn’t have a military, an economy, a police force, or even a population. It’s merely a few people and a few acres that, for historical reasons, are not entirely (but still somewhat) under Italian jurisdiction. I’m fine with sending “a representative” to go talk with the Pope, on occasion, when our state and his religion have matters of mutual interest to discuss. That person, however, is not an ambassador for the same reason that the Pope is not a prince and the Vatican is not a state.
If the Pope considers allegiance to the current President a disqualification to even speak with him (a disqualification, notably, which his predecessor did not even apply to atheist communists and the Muslim guy who shot him in the stomach) then he can go pound sand. When we send representatives, they represent the interests of our democracy, rather than the particular preferences of the leader in question. F
Ever Hear of the Swiss Guard
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 5:18PM EDT (link)Obviously not. But the important thing is that a country have a police force to have an ambassador, not that hearts and souls of over a BILLION people.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
Swiss Guard
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 5:33PM EDT (link)Is Anglicanism a country? Is Lutheranism? Is (God help us if it ever turns out this way) Islam? They’ve all got “populations” comparable to those of actual countries, but they’re not states and don’t get “ambassadors.” Catholicism is the exception only because the Pope used to have a country.
And, uh, the Swiss Guard, while symbolic of an army, isn’t an army. It’s a little under two hundred guys with weapons from the 1500s.
Sounds Like A Police Force To Me - And I Quote
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 5:43PM EDT (link)ophite: “The Vatican doesn’t have a military, an economy, a police force, or even a population”
ophite:” the Swiss Guard, while symbolic of an army, isn’t an army. It’s a little under two hundred guys with weapons from the 1500s.”
Your just contradicting yourself and spewing irrational nonsense. You sound like Andrew Sullivan. What’s your beef, abortion? gay marriage? Don’t hide. At lease have the integrity to state your beef openly instead of lurking like some troll.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
My Beef
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 6:24PM EDT (link)It’s 200 guys with halberds and no police functions, who act as personal bodyguards of the Pope and stand in corridors with pointy sticks. They’re only infrequently armed with real weapons. If it weren’t for the Italian government’s willingness to intervene, the Vatican could be conquered by a medium-sized paintball league.
Actually, my beef with the Pope is his obstinacy in the face of a good-faith attempt to appoint an ambassador which he oughtn’t have gotten in the first place.
Doug Kmiec is a decent guy despite misunderstanding that God’s call for charity is an individual one. For his basic participation in a democracy — endorsing one candidate, even the wrong candidate, over another — he was excluded from the community of Christ. He handled the matter privately and with tremendous discretion. Once it came to light, however, the Church quickly disavowed its decision and backed down.
What occurs in the voting booth, like what occurs in the confession booth, is a matter of private conscience, You walk in, you make your choice between sinners, and you walk out suspecting, but never knowing, the consequences of your actions. To believe otherwise is to believe that Christianity is incompatible, rather than complimentary, even necessary, to democracy.
If supporting the President is a sufficient precondition to be unacceptable as a candidate for ambassador, then there is no candidate acceptable to both the President and the Pope. This is, of course, a principled stand to take. If the Pope refuses to recognize ambassadors, then he refuses to recognize ambassadors. But, since we don’t send personal representatives to all religious leaders, there’s no particularly compelling reason to continue to send them to this one.
Doug Kmiec is a decent guy despite...
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 6:42PM EDT (link)My gracious, you really ARE an ignorant fool.
Now then, France has a military? Wow, the rest of the world wasn’t aware of that. And based on the annual summertime “student” riots, they don’t have much of a police force either.
Oh, and as for this raging stupid contention…
I take it you think that the number of pro-life folks who also happen to be Democrats is, like, zero. I’m sure the Senator from PA will take issue with that assumption.
Dude, you’re an ass.
Re: Armies
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 6:58PM EDT (link)Yeah. France has deployed more than 2,000 troops to help fight our fight in Afghanistan. And they’re armed with, you know, actual guns, not pointy sticks from the 1500s.
Oh, and they have a couple dozen nuclear weapons, too. And I think there’s a couple million people, you know, living in France. As opposed to the Vatican, which has a permanent residential population comparable to Antarctica’s.
And, re: my quote, that was specific to Doug Kmiec. He’s pro-life and Catholic. And yet he was pre-rejected on account of his support for Obama during the election; support characterized by some American cardinals as “treason.” It’s just baffling.
Doug Kmiec is a pro-life Catholic and the KKK supports the NAACP. nt
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 7:02PM EDT (link)Kmiec
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 7:13PM EDT (link)What, publishing law review articles and being personally opposed to abortion isn’t sufficient to constitute ‘pro-life’?
If supporting Obama for president is prima facie evidence of not being sufficiently pro-life to be ambassador to the Vatican, then you’ve gotten back around to the problem I mentioned before: there is literally no one that could be appointed that would be acceptable. If the Vatican can’t ethically accept any ambassador, and we don’t traditionally extend the privilege to other denominations, I don’t see any compelling reason for us to bend over backwards to give them one,
I'm personally opposed to slavery, but I own several
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 7:23PM EDT (link)because I don’t feel as though I can impose my beliefs on others and they work cheap. Besides, they’d just probably die of starvation anyway if I didn’t take care of them.
You are an idiot. And to answer your absolutely stupid question… No.
That's Funny; I Don't Recall Bill Clinton Having The Same Problem
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 7:25PM EDT (link)Your whole premise is flawed. If what you state is true, Clinton would have had the same problems. He didnt because he didnt appoint faux-Catholics and people who work to delegitimize the Church. There are plenty of non-partisans, catholic Democrats who would serve just fine. If worse comes to worse he could just re-appoint Ray Flynn.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
ophite, the Vatican is a real country. (Read, please.)
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 7:18PM EDT (link)You don’t have to like it, but I think that it’s time that you formally admitted that your opinion otherwise is just that: opinion, not international law.
You’re starting to get boring, so acknowledge that in your next post.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Re:
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 7:54PM EDT (link)So, yes. It’s actually my opinion that, practically, the Vatican isn’t a state. The law on the issue is considerably more complex.
The Vatican was actually not admitted as a full member nation of the UN; rather, it has permanent observer status. This is largely because of the abject absurdity of recognizing 900 people as a sovereign entity — and, no, the billion Catholics worldwide are not “citizens” of the Vatican. So, no, according to “international law,” which, insofar as it exists, is the United Nations, it isn’t a country.
According to the law of the United States, the Vatican is sometimes a country and sometimes not. Prior to 1984, we didn’t recognize them as a country, and, accordingly, didn’t grant them an ambassador. We did, however, send them a non-ambassador representative, the Special Envoy to the Vatican, on a regular basis, as a courtesy to our Catholic citizens and to the Pope’s influence.
From there, it gets a little complicated. We don’t (or didn’t) grant the Vatican’s observer at the United Nations diplomatic immunity. We also don’t grant them unequivocal sovereign immunity: courts will still issue judgments against the Vatican Bank. This isn’t really helped by the Church’s inconsistency about whether they’re a state or not: when it’s useful to them to claim that they’re a state in court, they claim they’re a state; when it’s not, they claim that they’re a church*.
Long story short, I think, is that our State Dept. has considered them sovereign since 1984, and that our courts don’t consider them sovereign for the purposes of satisfying judgments.
Incidentally, if you ask me to shut up or be banned, I respect that it’s your playground, your rules. If you want to do that, just do that, please, rather than demand outright submission in the argument?
* c.f. archdioces’ claims to tax immunity as United States corporations sole while simultaneously claiming that priests, as agents of a foreign power, are immune from judgments due to sovereign immunity.
You have not chosen wisely [nt]
bs Saturday, April 11th at 8:04PM EDT (link)Decorum is fo’ suckas - unless it’s one of the good guys
Yeah, what were the odds on that one? n/t
janis Saturday, April 11th at 8:19PM EDT (link)no text
No, it's not particularly more complex.
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 8:14PM EDT (link)Bored now.
Bye.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
And for those following along:
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 8:21PM EDT (link)The real reason that people like the late, unlamented ophite are so adamantly trying to redefine the Vatican as some sort of non-country, diplomatically speaking, is because countries traditionally have the right to refuse to accept the credentials of another nation’s ambassadors. Particularly when the choice of ambassador can be seen as a calculated insult to the country in question. Like it or not, sending a pro-choice Catholic to the Vatican will be seen as a calculated insult, which is why the latter is making it clear that the USA shouldn’t even try.
Deal with it, already. It’s not my fault that the world is the way it is.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
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My (blogging-related) wish list.
So, did that guy ever make a good argument here?
DONTREADONME Saturday, April 11th at 8:27PM EDT (link)I tried to warn him. kudos to everyone that argued with that guy, I hope we are not any dumber for having done so.
No, But He Used Some Big Boy Words To Make Arguments Seem Good. n/t
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 8:32PM EDT (link)n/t
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
hehe
McKinley Saturday, April 11th at 8:41PM EDT (link)Makes me think of a famous passage of Bertrand Russell’s memoirs:
“In Chicago I had a large seminar, where I continued to lecture on the same subject as Oxford, namely, ‘Words and Facts.’ But I was told that Americans would not respect my lectures if they were monosyllables, so I altered the title to something like ‘The Correlation between Oral and Somatic Motor Habits.’ Under this title, or something of the sort, the seminar was approved.”
Now there's a disappointment, Moe.
janis Saturday, April 11th at 8:32PM EDT (link)‘Cause I personally was convinced that you were in charge and were just waiting for the right time to disabuse the current administration of their belief that “I Won.”
What a bitter, bitter thing it is to have one’s hopes changed to mopes.
If I was in charge...
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 8:47PM EDT (link)…Firefly would be finishing up its seven-year run right about now.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Kmeic believes he is pro-life
McKinley Saturday, April 11th at 7:30PM EDT (link)but the Catholic church is pretty straightforward on this issue.
This statement from the Catholics For Obama site:
http://www.catholicdemocrats.org/cfo/index.php
Is Obama pro-life:
“The answer is “yes.” Looking through the lens of Catholic Social Teaching, Senator Obama has spent his entire career striving for the common good. He supports health care programs that will cover all Americans, a living wage for working families, and solutions that allow distressed families to stay in their homes. And rather than trying to overturn Roe v. Wade, an ineffective strategy for 40 years, Senator Obama will reduce abortions. How? By promoting health care for pregnant women and better infant care, day care and job training. In fact, data has shown that social and education programs actually reduce abortions.”
Were Kmeic a private citizen subscribing to this view, this probably wouldn’t be an issue, but the former Romney supporter ran around the country, writing books, and going on television challenging and rebutting the church’s position on the sanctity of human life.
The Obama campaign elevated him as a counterpoint to the church’s teachings on abortion in an attempt to mitigate the political fall out of Obama’s extreme positions on abortion among nominally pro-life voters.
Practical diplomacy aside, on a symbolic level, accepting this appointment would vest that rather clumsily formed utilitarian approach to the abortion issue with a legitimacy it does not deserve.
This would be the equivelent of appointing John Bolton to the U.N., except the Vatican is vested with the power to reject such an appointment.
You seem smart. I think you can wrap your head around this.
He Seems Smart ???
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 7:34PM EDT (link)Really ??? Nice post, but you lost me there.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
He's not unintelligent, he just knows so much that isn't so
McKinley Saturday, April 11th at 7:42PM EDT (link)nt
Re:
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 8:06PM EDT (link)So, Obama is to find a Catholic supporter, but not one who is prominent, prominently Catholic, was ever a conservative, or who supported him vocally?
How about a Catholic who didn't encourage others to put political strategy over right and wrong when framing his decision to sustain a politician who supports murder
McKinley Saturday, April 11th at 8:31PM EDT (link)That would pass muster in my book. If this position is as insignificant as you suggest, why appoint a lightning rod?
Life either begins at conception or it doesn’t. For the Catholic Church, it does and states must protect the lives of all citizens, especially those most in need of it, for as Christ said, “That which you do for the least of my brothers, you do so for me.”
With the dawning of genetics, this is the transcendent issue of our time: what constitutes a human life and what are the state’s responsibilties toward them. If you can’t see how the Obama campaign’s Token Catholic’s position that we must tolerate the evil of abortion if we are to advance at all on these other fronts mitigates the value of human life by rendering an individual worthy of life only for the purposes it serves others, then I suggest you stop blogging about the Catholic Church and read about it.
:counting on fingers: Huh. I guess that it *has* been long enough since '89...
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 4:09PM EDT (link)…for us to start getting voting-age adults who don’t remember the Cold War.
:raising hand: Think three times before you claim otherwise; not because it’ll get you in trouble, but because claiming lack of life experience is about the only way to avoid being pegged by the rest of the comments section as having less than a triple-digit IQ.
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re: The Vatican
ophite Saturday, April 11th at 4:13PM EDT (link)In what sense did the Vatican-qua-Vatican, as in the “state” itself, as in the entity to which we are hypothetically sending an ambassador, have anything whatsoever to do with the collapse of communism, as opposed to John-Paul II, the moral authority behind the world-spanning Catholic Church?
Here ya go, ophite.
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 4:21PM EDT (link)Have fun.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
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Grasping at Straws Now
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 4:23PM EDT (link)I know your type. You’ll just keep digging and digging yourself into a hole.
The funny thing about people like you is that they would be offended if we refused to send ambassadors to third world banana republics that have no bearing on our foreign policy or geo-politics in general.
Obviously, the influence of the church offends you. And obviously, you havent read the book.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
Too cool
SteveLA Saturday, April 11th at 4:24PM EDT (link)Moe too cool on the link thing, where’s the code?
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Here ya go, SteveLA.
Moe Lane Saturday, April 11th at 4:28PM EDT (link)Have fun.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Oh....way cool x2
SteveLA Saturday, April 11th at 4:30PM EDT (link)But was that a double entree….LOL
Can I a have a DOH !
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Wondered how ya did that, Moe
TNJim Saturday, April 11th at 4:33PM EDT (link)thanks for the link!
So easy even a liberal can do it!
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“He’s such a charming liar” Air America host Christiane Brown referring to Barack Obama
Someone Should Create A Dossier Of Obama's Affronts To Catholics
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 3:01PM EDT (link)I think he got something like 54% of the Catholic vote. Of course, Obama has taken them completely for granted and most liekly hates them, but you only get these stories in drips in dribbles from the press.
From Catholic hospitals, to school vouchers, to his appointments, to his abortion policies and his general lack of respect, there a a solid case that, if presented carefully, would put a large dent in Catholic support for Obama
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
Swamp, I managed to hear a very short clip of Obama's
janis Saturday, April 11th at 3:24PM EDT (link)address about Easter this morning. I say “managed” by way of meaning “accidentally” as I try never to listen to any spoken words by Obama. I break out in hives and curse uncontrollably. Anyway, he referred to Christians as “believers”. Not as Christians, mind you, but as “believers.” Comes across as the same way we refer to “troofers.”
So I don’t necessarily believe that he’s out to just offend Catholics, I’m pretty much convinced by now that he’s out to diss anyone who’s not Muslim.
Given your remark to angryred below, I'll clarify:
janis Saturday, April 11th at 3:32PM EDT (link)I don’t think Obama believes in anyone or anything but himself and raw power, although he may be somewhat inclined to consider himself part of the Unholy Trinity of Axelrod, Emanuel and Obama, not necessarily in that order.
Janis, I wish you were right, but Obama does believe in "the new Socialist Man"
AKSteveB Saturday, April 11th at 10:19PM EDT (link)I was actually hoping/believing that he was all about power, that would have been Clinton term III, a lot less destructive.
Hell is other people - Sartre
On a historical note
Wing Zero Saturday, April 11th at 4:10PM EDT (link)Believers and Brothers were the terms early Christians used in reference to each other. The term Christian arose from the people of Anitoch, and it stuck.
However… Muslims call themselves the same thing…
But I agree… I’m a CHRISTIAN. If they want to be called the DEMOCRATIC party, they can atleast do Christians the same favor.
1-21-09 - We are so screwed… Wait… maybe not just yet.
Unfortunately
mom2oneson Saturday, April 11th at 3:25PM EDT (link)Catholics haven’t been taught Catholic teaching for the past 30 years. The Catholic schools went liberal and the colleges did too. The Catholic homeschools have had to reprint stuff from the 50s and write their own books.
The traditionalist that reject Vatican II (SSPX, CMRI) are conservative, and most of the pro-life groups are full of conservative people but I’ve found most Catholics are sympathetic to liberal ideas despite Church teaching.
I know a family that was glad when their son dropped out of seminary because of the liberal ideas he was learning. This is a very dedicated family that attends Mass every morning and raised nine children. They aren’t the type to say anything negative just to say it.
Catholic "traditionalists"
jimmyg Saturday, April 11th at 6:09PM EDT (link)I am going to presume that you are not catholic. The groups you reference are traditionalist in the sense that they do not recognize Vatican II. SSPX is in a sort of reconciliation with the church do to the efforts of Pope Benedict. CMRI considers the changes which occurred after Vatican II to be heracy, and have no connection with the Roman Catholic Church other than calling themselves catholic. CMRI specifically rejects the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I love this Catholic Church's ability to remain so steadfast
mbauer Saturday, April 11th at 3:09PM EDT (link)I know the Catholic Church (my church) is far from perfect- we admit that. But there are certain issues that are so basic to our principles, that we absolutely will not compromise for anything. I wish a few Republicans in congress would take a lesson from this.
Even though I'm not a Catholic
TNJim Saturday, April 11th at 3:21PM EDT (link)I too admire their steadfastness on principle. Though there are disagreements among Protestants and Catholics we worship the same God who defined those principles.
Yep, Republicans sure could learn from a lot about standing on principle.
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Religious Curiousity
angryred Saturday, April 11th at 3:24PM EDT (link)first of all, the Potus is such an arrogant **** that he truly believes the Vatican will just give in after a while. He dosen’t know B16 very well, does he?
Second, I’m really curious to see an out and out religious profile of this guy: in same church for 20 years, no church now, has a seder, offronts all kids of religious with his policies, and fumbles yet another international protocol, this time to the head of millions around the world?
My DH and I are starting to think he is an atheist. All part of the commie/social justice persona behind the slick suited fraud.
1-20-13 Hope for Change
Agreed, I Never Bought Into The Obama As A Muslin Meme Because ..
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, April 11th at 3:28PM EDT (link)I’m confident that he is a Marxist at heart and as Marx believed, religion is the opiet of the people and must be discouraged for true progress. He’s a Marxist trojan horse, not a Muslim trojan horse and Marxist are atheists. Agnostic at best.
http://www.twitter.com/swamp_yank
See, I'm also confused:
angryred Saturday, April 11th at 3:31PM EDT (link)1/ He spent all those years in that church??? Why even go?
-maybe it was more of a “community function” where he had to be seen than an actual church service, hate filled or not.
2/Isn’t more politically expedient in our country to at least appear religious? Dosen’t that win more point (see #1)
thank you swamp-we are thinking on the same lines..
1-20-13 Hope for Change
He attended that church for 20 years so he could
janis Saturday, April 11th at 3:34PM EDT (link)claim the black credentials card for political office in Chicago. And he threw them overboard when it was politically expedient. As to your second point, he absolutely “appeared religious” all during the primaries and the campaign. Once he won, that was over with.
Hmm, attended? Or was just a member
TNJim Saturday, April 11th at 4:11PM EDT (link)for 20 years. My church has “members” that show up only on Easter and Christmas and maybe a couple other times a year. We do know Obama says he never was there when Wright was spewing his anti-America swill. (Sarcasm alert!)
That’s a good observation, janis.
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“He’s such a charming liar” Air America host Christiane Brown referring to Barack Obama
You're all right...
azaeroprof Saturday, April 11th at 4:17PM EDT (link)SwampYankee, angryred and janis. Michelle chose that church (why does that not surprise?) to facilitate O’s political credentials. That’s why they never left, Rev. Wright’s philosophy IS Michelle Obama’s philosophy. Even after he “left” the church during the campaign, he still stayed connected, as illustrated by the fact that their new pastor showed up on the campaign trail in the days before the election.
It is incredibly telling that the Obamas have not been to church since the inauguration. The WH spokesman says they are “searching” for a church home in DC. Funny, when my family has “searched” for a church, it usually involves actually attending some to find out what we like/dislike about them. I’m sure that they will attend some church tomorrow, and the press will make a big deal out of the Obama’s attending Easter service. So the morons who supported him will be reinforced in their belief that he is “Christian”. I haven’t heard ONE SINGLE THING out of his mouth that would indicate that he has any belief that would be construed as Christian.
And Swamp_Yankee, I think you’re right. He is very sympathetic to the Muslim faith because of his father and stepfather, but ultimately I believe he is just a self-worshipper (aka atheist).
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I never recall Bush using a church as a photo-op
McKinley Saturday, April 11th at 4:40PM EDT (link)I couldn’t imagine him going on the Saddleback forum either. Too classy.
An ecumenist?
Menlo Saturday, April 11th at 5:28PM EDT (link)It appears that is where any liberal who isn’t a militant atheist is. Sadly, it has been the direction of a lot of Christian churches in America for about four decades now.
“Guess which party these big insurance companies favor? Big companies love big government.” -Ann Coulter
Scarier and scarier
angryred Saturday, April 11th at 3:41PM EDT (link)This gets more interesting by the day!
1-20-13 Hope for Change
If by "interesting" you mean "terrifying", then I'm in agreement. n/t
janis Saturday, April 11th at 3:46PM EDT (link).
Sheesh.....all the discussion about 'if' the Vatican should be recognized as a State deserving
USNJIMRET Saturday, April 11th at 4:35PM EDT (link)an Ambassador?
They are recognized as a State, with an Ambassador.
And every single other State that is so recognized also has the right to reject the Ambassador chosen by the President for that position.
It’s the way things are, not how individuals might want them to be.
I don't think they will have anyone to send to the Vatican...
JadedByPolitics Saturday, April 11th at 4:35PM EDT (link)you would actually have to KNOW someone who reveres the sanctity of life being the ghoul that he is The Imitation Christ does not roll with those people.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
Deputize Casey Jr. and ship him to the Vatican
McKinley Saturday, April 11th at 4:36PM EDT (link)He’d make PA a happier, better place.
Obama has no regard for the Vatican
fisk2521 Saturday, April 11th at 4:46PM EDT (link)Obama and his administration have made it perfectly clear that they do not have any respect for the Pope, The Catholic Church or the majority of American citiznes in this country that do not support the concept of murdering our own children.
To dismiss the fundamental belief of the Catholic doctrine is to insult millions around the world. It’s never surprising to see the liberal left who claims diversity, inclusiveness and actually considers sharia law in some form perfectly acceptable, but dismisses a religion over 2000 years old.
I am not even Catholic (yet) but I do believe the Pope is the only person in this scenario that has integrity, character and true spirituality Obama’s faith is always convenient and opportunistic..,just like his choice of a church will be, if he ever makes one. We are all waiting with baited breath.
Caroline Kenneky may consider herself a true Catholic but she hardly behaves like one, and doesn’t deserve an appointment to the Vatican. Like the New York Senator office, she believes that it should be hers because of who her parents were, not because of anything she’s done to deserve it. Her arrogance in this matter is insulting the Vatican, she should pray about it and maybe even ask for an audience so the Pope can make her understand that ‘the least of us deserve our love and respect’.
She can take Nancy Pelosi with her.
LDavis
Why not send Pro-Abortion Queen Michelle Obamas as Obama's Special US Ambassador to the Holy See? Surely the Vatican will have trouble in rejecting her. nt
Rod_Patrick Saturday, April 11th at 4:49PM EDT (link)If you're looking for outrage
SteveLA Saturday, April 11th at 4:58PM EDT (link)How about Reverend Wright as Ambassador to the Holy See ?
This is not a serious comment by the way.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
The Pope will think twice before rejecting the President's own wife
Rod_Patrick Saturday, April 11th at 5:12PM EDT (link)as Ambassador.
Reverend Wright is not popular to the American Catholics. On the contrary, Michelle has been accepted by many Catholics despite her pro-choice beliefs.
It will be a good litmus test for the Vatican.
The Pope might think twice
Beaglescout Saturday, April 11th at 6:23PM EDT (link)or at least the Vatican might, but he’d still turn her down.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Sad.
Rod_Patrick Saturday, April 11th at 9:00PM EDT (link)I’m somewhat dreaming that one day, the Obamas will change their stance on abortion.
I’m thinking that it will be good for Michelle to have a regular contact with the pro-life Vatican people.
Even if Caroline Kennedy was pro-life
aesthete Saturday, April 11th at 5:35PM EDT (link)It’s a pretty big insult, in my eyes, to send a NYC socialite who doesn’t seem to show any enthusiasm for foreign affairs, much less the Vatican, as the ambassador to the Vatican, and implies that Obama’s paying off of a political favor is more important to him than US relations with the Vatican. This would be OK for some tinpot third-world country whose importance is minimal, but is not acceptable for the Vatican, whose influence extends to 1/6th of the population, and many countries.
“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected.”
-G. K. Chesterton
“To be ‘cured’ against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
-C.S. Lewis
I Can Sympathsize With Barak on This One
Joe_Cor Saturday, April 11th at 8:31PM EDT (link)With ND University offering him a honorary doctorate; over 50% of Catholics voting for him; and a Catholic VP and Speaker of the House saying pro-choice is peachy, with no repercussions for their actions from the U.S.Catholic Church–is it any wonder that he has trouble understanding how seriously the Vatican takes the abortion issue?
Over 50% of the voting Catholics...
DONTREADONME Saturday, April 11th at 8:37PM EDT (link)not always the same as practicing Catholics. Unfortunately, Catholic identity is chose by the people who go to church twice a year. And yes, the Catholic churches inaudible protests against its parishoners that believe Pro-Choice is an acceptable position is sad.
I know
Joe_Cor Saturday, April 11th at 8:44PM EDT (link)Eucharistic ministers, regular attendees, very devout Catholics who voted for him. The Church is confused. No wonder he doesn’t take it seriously.
What happens when non political pro-lifers don't have an active conservative friend?
mbauer Saturday, April 11th at 9:12PM EDT (link)It took me stuffing article after article about Obama’s pro infanticide voting record into very devout Christian friend’s respective faces to get them to wake up and not vote for the guy. People were so enamored by him, that they wanted to look past everything else.
I really do give the media props for what they were able to acomplish:
Make Bush the most hated sitting president ever- Check
Successfully make the average joe think All Republicans = Bush- Check
Make all of Obama’s flaws look pale in comparison to the pseudo evilness of Bush- Check
Encourage people to care more about style than substance- Check
And a little off subject, get the most liberal member running for president from each party nominated- Check
Problem with Catholic pro-life deniers is...
DONTREADONME Saturday, April 11th at 9:35PM EDT (link)they will use any reason they can to justify there position to continue to vote for Obama. There is not much you can do other than say “Why are you Catholic again”? If the Pope does not know what he is talking about, then why do you go a Church that adheres to Popes commands? That is why I do not like going to the Catholic church anymore, including the Anglican church. Too many hypocrites sitting in the pew next to me.
I'd like to contest that
mbauer Saturday, April 11th at 9:45PM EDT (link)I’d willing to bet that 50% or whatever of Catholics that voted for Obama would not be in the pew next to you except for on Christmas and Easter. I don’t recall the last presidential election in which my current priest didn’t comment on the need to put our pro life principles first when we vote.
I think you are correct.
mbecker908 Saturday, April 11th at 9:52PM EDT (link)I don’t have a link and am relying on my memory (not even a good bet I can find my way to the bathroom without a map, so take this for what it’s worth), but I’m sure I remember seeing an article referencing the radical difference between “regular” mass attenders and the C&E variety. There was, as I recall, about a 30 point swing.
Yes, you are right...
DONTREADONME Saturday, April 11th at 9:54PM EDT (link)our pastors did the same thing, though they did it cryptically down here in the archdiocese of Arlington VA, but that was what torqued me. When the Catholic vote was shown, I said how many of these people around me voted for Obama. I did not see any Obama stickers on cars at the church parking lot, so I wondered, which Catholics voted for Zero-liberal? I just do not get it. Oh, when arguing with other Catholics about this they said war was more important than the abortion issue? I said you just equating the termination of the most innocent of all life against the termination of the enemy. Anyway, I just find myself in a quandry about the people around me in the churches.
notice how the war was consuming all the liberals
Doc Holliday Saturday, April 11th at 10:04PM EDT (link)lives even though they were not affected and few if any knew anyone serving? One the election was over, the war stopped being so dire, it stopped ruining the average civilian’s life. The MSM tells them what to think and they follow. It sounds too simplistic, but many today are simplistic.
Molon Labe!
Way past simplistic, most are just plain stupid.
Achance Saturday, April 11th at 10:12PM EDT (link)Three generations of leftist indoctrination in government schools has finally given the communists their victory without firing a shot. I always figured that if I lived to see America became a communist country, I’d be surrounded by rubble and dying of radiation sickness.
In Vino Veritas
yeah, they are stupid and they are sheep
Doc Holliday Saturday, April 11th at 10:17PM EDT (link)you ask the average mall shopper why the war is ruining their life and they can’t say why. They have been indocrinated by the MSM, pop culture, NEA, and Communist run state colleges, and the Ivy League is the worst. It is sad how people can have such low self esteem that they become sponges that soak up whatever they hear the most.
And it is a blaspheme on those who actually are affected by the war, men and women who fight, suffer, and still want to win.
Molon Labe!
55555
mom2oneson Saturday, April 11th at 10:22PM EDT (link)It’s all over their books…even their kindergarten books are full of leftist ideology.
5's
mbauer Saturday, April 11th at 9:13PM EDT (link)You’ve hit the nail on the head
Uniform Standards
novimir Saturday, April 11th at 11:20PM EDT (link)If the Vatican uniformly applies the abortion standard, why is it actively pursuing a relationship with the People Republic of China which has a “one child” policy?
It is also pursuing a relationship with Vietnam. In both cases, the issue of abortion is not being pressed.
Thread's like these make me want the "new" tag back
mbauer Saturday, April 11th at 9:28PM EDT (link)Remember in RS 2.0 (I think) in which every time you revisited a post, all the comments that weren’t previously there said “new” by it? Man I miss that.
I'm wondering if it is intentional
dalec Sunday, April 12th at 1:31AM EDT (link)Obama may be arrogant and yes he stumbles all over the place with rookie mistakes, but I never thought he was actually stupid! Give him a pass the first time for not realizing that the Vatican is serious about its anti-abortion position. The second time the nominee is rejected for the same reason, you have to take note. The third time, one begins to wonder if there is another agenda at play here.
Perhaps “the one” is wanting to do away with the Vatican ambassadorship altogether. This would be much more consistent with his Marxist ideologies. This way he can say :
Well, we tried as hard as we could to send an ambassador to the Vatican, but they just kept rejecting them. So what can you do? It’s not our fault!
square on the nose here...
DONTREADONME Sunday, April 12th at 1:36AM EDT (link)you have to know that the Vatican would have a problem with a supporter of abortion. Just like you would have to know that Mel Gibson would be a bad choice for ambassador to Israel. No doubt a point is being made if it continues to happen three times. Oh, and your point about doing away with ambassador to the Vatican is valid since we were having an argument with ophite above saying the same exact thing.
PTL!!!
Hammer2008 Sunday, April 12th at 3:11AM EDT (link)I spent Easter week vacationing away from the Masters here in Augusta, GA to return to news, the internet and thunderstorms. I did hear a blurb about this on the drive back from Disney Orlando on Friday.
Moe, thank you for the details.
Happy Easter one and all. A blessed Passover (Pasch a/k/a Easter in some European parts)
~Andrew
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Too much noise! “Noise! You’ll have noise enough before long. The Regulars are coming out.” ~ Paul Revere (April 18th, 1775’s eve…)
Obama insults the Vatican
john_barry Sunday, April 12th at 8:07AM EDT (link)Firstly one cannot be “pro choice” and be a Roman Catholic. I fail to see how you can have a choice to kill the innocent unborn child in the womb. Pro choice means pro murder. Lets stop using euphemisms. Lets call a spade a spade. Stop sanitizing language. By supporting abortion you exclude yourself from the Church. To pick a pro abortion ambassador is the ultimate insult to the Vatican. Obama is so used to a fawning media in America that he just does not get it.
Obama has relentlessly pursued a pro-abortion agenda since his election. He has no regard for the law of God on this issue. To the pro aborts I say: For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his eternal soul. We are all answerable to God for our actions.
The Vatican is upholding the law of God on this issue. To accept a pro abortion ambassador would be a signal that the Vatican was comfortable with Obama’s policy on the issue. Under no circumstances can the Vatican accept a pro abort.
john barry
I'm confused. I thought Obama was "post-partisan".
scottbomb Sunday, April 12th at 1:47PM EDT (link)Remember his speeches in the Dem primary about “putting aside our differences”, “bringing people together”, “people are tired of the same old partisan politics”?
And now that he’s been elected, the most polarizing president in recent history (according to a recent poll) can’t even bring himself to appoint ONE pro-life person.
http://www.HowObamaGotElected.com
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948